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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 07:36:18 AM

Title: would like some advice please
Post by: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 07:36:18 AM
FMIL still refuses to speak to me over the phone but tells everyone she "really wants to talk". As I've said in some of my other posts, the problem is not really with me - it's that she is an unhappy person and her whole family has given into her tantrums and buried their heads in the sand about the fact that she might actually need professional help for 40 years.  This is destroying her family as her sons make themselves more and more distant from her.  At this point, I don't feel like I want anything to do with her - I have tried and tried but have been kicked too many times.

On the DIL support groups (what are called "MIL Hate sites" here), I've been advised to try to talk to on the phone ONE more time if/when it comes up and then cut her off completely when/if she refuses and tell my BF that I've done everything I can and now I'm done.  Is that acceptable?  It sounds to me like they also think that in order for us to present a united front, BF should ALSO refuse to speak to his mother until she can behave.  I don't think this is right, nor do I think it is possible.  In fact, because his phone isn't working, I let him borrow mine so he could call her yesterday.  I didn't hear their conversation but in the past, I have been very hurt by the fact that he glosses over anything that's wrong and basically does not even bring me up during these conversations.  When he's with his mom, I feel like he has to pretend that I don't exist or else she will get too upset.  Sometimes when I'm mad I call myself "his invisible girlfriend that doesn't really exist around his mother."  He claims that he confronts her on her behavior but I have never witnessed it and don't know what this means anymore.  This is eroding our relationship day by day and I no longer feel like a united front because I don't know what is going on.  I don't want to pester him about this everyday - we both work long hours and are tired in the evening.  I also don't want this situation to continue - either I will leave him, and/or something is going to give with his mother and destroy whatever relationship currently exists (between them).  This is NOT something that I feel he can bury his head in the sand about any longer and as much as I hate the idea of giving him ultimatums, I feel like maybe I should because I want this relationship to work - I love my boyfriend very much and want him to be happy.  His mother is making us both REALLY unhappy and because of how things are, I no longer feel like we are on the same page.  But he's told me that if we break up because of his mother, he will never forgive her.  I don't want to make him cut off his mother - she's his mother.  But as the outsider, how much can I do?  These are the choices I want to give him:

1)  Try to get his mother some professional help - she needs some kind of psychiatric or psychological counseling.
2)  Get himself some counseling to help him understand the situation a little better.
3)  Have us BOTH (me and him, not me and FMIL as someone on this forum suggested) got to counseling so we can try to deal with this with an objective third party.
4)  End the relationship and go back to his mother.  Some of my mentors are pushing me to apply for a job overseas and I have started considering it - if we have to break up, I just want to get away from my life here and start over somewhere new.
5)  Come up with some kind of active plan on his own but TELL ME ABOUT IT and put it into action NOW...  not two months from now, not six months from now, not the week before he's supposed to move to Chicago, because I will have left him long before that...

I hate the idea of having to be so pushy about this but I just dont' know what to do.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 08:39:48 AM
I don't want to cut her off either - for the very same reasons you stated.  But I also would NEVER let someone in my family treat my BF the way he lets his family treat me.  I told him this the other day - not in anger but matter of factly. And it's true.  He almost cried because he felt so bad but I dont' think he is capable of dealing with this effectively and because of that he's going to end up losing me AND destroying the relationship with his mother.

You're right - it's not my place to get her help.  She can't admit she has a problem - it's because of OTHER people "my FDIL doesn't CALL me", "my son doesn't listen to me" etc. etc.  what can you do with such people?
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: Aisling on December 08, 2009, 08:47:17 AM
Cut-offs are difficult to maintain, and and should always be a last resort.  I suggest counseling, for both of you together and him alone, as a first step.  If that doesn't work, then I think it would be time to give him a choice: you going into cut-off, or you leaving.  If his mom refuses to act decently, you are in no way obligated to continue subjecting yourself to nastiness and pain.

And please, tell your BF your true feelings.  He deserves to know that you're thinking of leaving because he doesn't support you.  I know you're both tired after work, and that you don't want to nag, but this is a very important discussion that you owe to him and to yourself.  Tell him calmly and factually.  Try to avoid getting emotional (lots of men don't handle emotional displays well and deal better with facts).  Tell him what your options for happiness are, so he understands what he has to gain--and what he has to lose.

As for FMIL, there's nothing really left for you to do.  You can't force her to change.  The only person you can change is yourself.  Try to detach.  Remind yourself that the horrible things she says and done are no reflection on you: they reflect only her own misery.

Don't JADE (Justify, Argue/Apologize, Defend, Explain) to the Flying Monkeys.  Tell them only that when your MIL is willing to have a mature relationship with you, you'll be happy to hear from her.  It's none of their business what sort of relationship you have with FMIL, or why it is how it is.  I know you'll be tempted to defend yourself and explain yourself, but anything you tell them will be reported back to FMIL.  She'll then cry and say "but that isn't truuuuuue", and twist things around, and another round of nonsense will begin.
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 10:10:41 AM
This is awful, Isitme, just awful....what a terrible "pickle" to be in!  For some reason his Mother has it in for you and is not willing to see you for who you are.  I do not know what to tell you about what to do.

I don't understand distant DIL at all.  AT ALL.  I have tried every single idea on how to like her and I do pretty well....she's a person too but whew, it's hard.  I try to see the good in her and look past the "no tact" things.  The downright hurtful things I just swallow.  I've seen and heard of worse people. 

Isitme? (we need to shorten your name), your situation is 'damned if you do and damned if you don't'.  If you love each other and you are willing to look past his mother and her shennanigans, then you could make it but if you can't look past them, you won't. 

Believe me, if you marry him, his Mother will have to get over her dislike of you.  She will!  Do you read me?  Somebody has to give here. 

Can you possibly just be very sweet to her when you see her?  That's what I have to do....let everything go over your head like you don't get it when she says something in a passive aggressive way?  I know; it's hard!  Actually, it is taking my life. 
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: Aisling on December 08, 2009, 10:35:34 AM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 10:10:41 AMBelieve me, if you marry him, his Mother will have to get over her dislike of you.  She will!  Do you read me?  Somebody has to give here. 

Can you possibly just be very sweet to her when you see her?  That's what I have to do....let everything go over your head like you don't get it when she says something in a passive aggressive way?  I know; it's hard!  Actually, it is taking my life.

Unfortunately, no, she won't "have to" get over disliking anybody.  All too often, the marriage cracks before the MIL.  "Go along to get along" almost never works with these kinds of people.  Better to start as you mean to go on.

And why, chickie, if your strategy is so hard on you, would you recommend it to anyone else?  That seems counterintuitive.  Wouldn't finding a better strategy that doesn't feel like it's taking your life be a better idea?
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 10:45:25 AM
I don't know what you mean...do you mean never seeing my son again?  Or my Grandchildren?  What would the better strategy be?

I didn't choose her but my son did.  I'm the one who has to deal with it. 

Isitme's boyfriend's mother will have to deal with it.

Where am I missing this?
 
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: Aisling on December 08, 2009, 10:51:55 AM
If you really, honestly think this is killing you, chickie, you need a lot more help than anyone here can provide.  Not being a trained therapist myself, I can only point out that one would be of immeasurable value to you.

I will say this, though: all the evidence suggests that truly narcissistic people (which is what isitme's FMIL is sounding like) will not change.  They Will. Not. Change.  Avoidance is pretty much the only viable option, if one wishes to avoid being sucked into the dysfunction.
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: just2baccepted on December 08, 2009, 10:55:05 AM
I didn't hear their conversation but in the past, I have been very hurt by the fact that he glosses over anything that's wrong and basically does not even bring me up during these conversations.  When he's with his mom, I feel like he has to pretend that I don't exist or else she will get too upset.  Sometimes when I'm mad I call myself "his invisible girlfriend that doesn't really exist around his mother."

Isitme, my DH does the same thing when talking to his mom and dad.  He NEVER mentions my name and he never says anything about my family to his family.  Its like we don't exist.  So I know exactly how you feel.  Early in the marriage I thought it was odd that he didn't mention me in his conversations with them.  And that he wouldn't tell them anything that we did with my family.  He just say he didn't want to upset them etc.  But now he says its more that he always has felt like he should limit info to them so that they won't be given any ammunition against me or my family.

I think its easier for his family to pretend like I don't exist, just like they don't send me card for birthday or anything like that.  And they pictures on their fridge of everyone holding their grandson, except me of course.  Its so sad that people like this cannot accept their child's significant other, b/c in the end all they end up doing is alienating themselves when all along they were just trying to alienate you/me.  Breaks my heart everyday.
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 11:01:28 AM
Thanks for trying to help me out with this ladies.  I really appreciate it. 

2chickiebaby - I have tried so hard to be sweet and nice to this woman.  I have had several of HER friends tell me they wish I was dating THEIR son so that I would be their daughter in law.  From day one I had cold vibes from her but I did my best to give her the benefit of the doubt, be friendly, sweet, accepting, you name it.

She is never going to change.  She makes herself and everyone around her unhappy.  This becomes a vicious cycle because then who wants to spend time with her?  She actually sounds a lot like Victim who has been on this forum - but at least Victim is trying to go to counselling.  My FMIL has no insight whatsoever and in her eyes never does anything wrong.  What can I do with someone like that? 

Aisling, thanks.. I think I"m going to tell my BF that I no longer feel like a united front and I would like us to try couples therapy.  We are always waiting for a good time to deal with this but the truth is, it's NEVER a good time and it's not something we can put off until it "comes up".  Sometimes when I bring things up though, he wants specific examples about what happened that made me bring up the situation.  I don't want to go into the petty details though - I can't jsut say "I finally realized after you had a 50 minute conversation with you mother on my phone and didn't even mention me or any of the cr*p that she is putting us through, that I can't do this anymore".  I mean, it sounds ridiculous - the truth is, it's everything that has happened since day 1 - we have talked and talked and talked about it and he agrees we need to work on things and be united and stand as a couple with his mom..... but it's more talk and not enough action.  We didn't get to go to their place for Thanksgiving because we both got the flu and last weekend I had to miss his SIL's baby shower because of work so I feel like he's going to use that as an excuse for non-action and say  that since we haven't even had a chance to sit down with them lately why can't we wait and see what happens?  Sometimes I wonder if we should wait too - but since his mother now refuses to talk to me on the phone to "air her issues" (been there, done that, it means nothing), I dont' think it can.  I"m not about to give in to her tantrum and make a special trip (4 hours away) up to visit her just so she can cry and continue to have tantrums.  Is that unreasonable of me?  I'm sorry I didn't get to see them the last two times but it was for genuine reasons and I did call to apologize (spoke to his dad).

She's never going to change - she will always dislike me because deep down inside, she probably dislikes herself and everything around her.  That's why I feel bad for her and wish her family would get her help.  But at the end of the day, the only person I can change is myself, and the only relationship BF and I can try to "fix" is ours.  We have tried to have a relationship with her but it seems she will only accept the relationship with her son and there is no room for me in it.   :-\

Just2b:  it's really hurtful to be the invisible girlfriend/wife that doens't really exist - I don't care so much about his family, but it hurts that BF goes along with it because he's afraid of rocking the boat.  And it's things like that that maybe make some DILs go a little crazy and cut their inlaws out of their lives.  But maybe that's not the healthiest solution because then everybody loses.  What can any of us do?  I hope we are all able to find some answers on this site!
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 11:04:42 AM
I think I mentioned that I'm going to a counselor.  I have to go because I have to save myself. What you don't understand is that to lose your child, not through death but through marriage, is like a death but you don't get a funeral, a closure.

I know that no one here can help me.  I'm just trying to find something to hang on to and to understand what has gone so awry in people's lives that they treat their husband's parents like they are bad? 

Us? Bad? We were the place and people everyone wanted to be around.  That's what I don't get.  A friend said to me recently, "doesn't she realize how much you're loved?"

It doesn't matter to me about how we're loved....we're not loved by the right people.  These others don't matter. 

The only reason I'm going to counseling is because it's through our church and it's free.  No more money is going to be spent by me to try to figure this out!  I can only change myself.

If you ever have kids, you'll know the feeling.   

Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 11:18:49 AM
Oh!!! This is heartbreaking!!!!!!  It really is. Just2be....I just can't stand this for you!!

I have a situation where one of my DILs puts pictures of everyone BUT distant DIL around at her house.  Even in the babies books.  I know it kills her.  It just about kills me.

What is she trying to accomplish by doing that?  It's so cruel.  I'm the one that distant DIL has hurt, not her.   There is a little battle for boss going on here and I don't get it. 

Just2be....your MIL is trying to hurt you for some reason; that's the only thing I can see.  You are very tenderhearted, just like I am so I'm sure this all wounds you to the core and it shows on your face.  Can you try to not let it do that?



Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: just2baccepted on December 08, 2009, 11:31:54 AM
Chickie I know you've probably already mentioned this.  But does distant DIL and son live in another state.  And if so how often do you get to see them.  My Dh calls his mom and dad once a week.  And we see them sporadically like for lunch or holidays etc.

So far I just don't go around them that much.  So I guess that's how I'm currently dealing with their rejection.  I really dont' know what else to do.  But thanks for your words of encouragement.
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 11:35:57 AM
Quote from: Anna on December 08, 2009, 11:07:16 AM
" I don't care so much about his family..."
Is it possible that his Mom picks up on the fact that you don't care about them?  I know my dil doesn't care about us & it hurts.

When I said that I meant, I'm not going to let it bother me that his family ignores me - but it does hurt me when BF goes along with that, just like just2be.  I did care once... but now I know it's them and not me.  I'm not a dog that will get kicked over and over again and then keep going back for more.  However,  I do my best to be polite even now.  I did everything I could to show that I cared - I visited them over the holidays, tried to engage them in conversation.  When I brought his mother a housewarming gift for her new place she told me she didn't want anything but I gave it to her anyways as graciously as possible (tried to make a joke out of it actually - I said, "Well it's not going to fit in my suitcase on the way home so I'd like you to have it.... according to BF she later said she liked it and complained that her other DIL hadn't brought a gift....)..   Few months later (AFTER I started to hear the negative stuff), I went to visit them soon after I had returned from a family visit to India and brought them a few things THAT THEY HAD REQUESTED.  When I said "I brought you some gifts from India" she said "I don't accept gifts from people."  so again, I tried to be gracious and deal with the situation with humor and said "okay, well I brougth you some stuff then, not a gift."  Not in a mean way, but in a friendly way to try and diffuse the situation. I have never gotten emotional, openly angry or been mean to these people.  Even when they are at their rudest, I have kept a smile on my face and tried to be pleasant and calm. 

The point I'm trying to make Anna is that I have tried.  I've cared and I've tried to show that I care and even when I've had to make myself stop caring because it hurt too much, I keep trying to show that I care for my BF's sake and because I believe in family and don't want to come between anyone and their family.  This woman could have had a good relationship with me - my own mother died when I was younger so I would have welcomed a good relationship with my MIL.  But she just won't allow it and it's driving everyone around her away.  Just as I've learned it's not always the MIL's fault, I think it needs to be acknowledged that it's not always the DIL's fault either.  But everyone here is right - cutting someone out is NOT the answer... So what is?  I think for now it's counseling for whoever is willing to go.  I hope 2chickiebaby is able to find some relief.  I hope all of us are able to find some way to heal.  I hope BF will realize this is a serious enough problem and agree to go to counseling NOW and not a few months down the road after all this bitterness and anger has destroyed everybody's relationship with everyone else.   :-\
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: just2baccepted on December 08, 2009, 11:37:37 AM
Quote from: Anna on December 08, 2009, 11:07:16 AM
" I don't care so much about his family..."
Is it possible that his Mom picks up on the fact that you don't care about them?  I know my dil doesn't care about us & it hurts.

I hope that its not that she doesn't care about you but that its what I mentioned in the other thread about possibly feeling threatened or left out of her children's growing up and maybe she feels like she missing out on the children's upbringing and you remind her of the pain.  I haven't' read your response yet to other post, but that really seems to stick out me about your situation.  Time may heal your problem I'm thinking.  I hope.
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 11:40:45 AM
No, same state but different cities....3 hours apart.  I do not understand what close DIL is trying to do....I wonder if all this stuff is a battle for first place or something.

Your MIL is trying to be in first place, I guess.  This is so silly, I can't tell you and so hurtful.

My elderly friend, whom I adore said to just come home and write it all down like it was a TV show, a funny TV show.  It sounds crazy but I might give it a try. 

Some of the things Distant DIL says are funny if they are not directed at you.  ha ha ha
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: cremebrulee on December 08, 2009, 11:50:04 AM
When your young, no, let me rephrase this...when I was young, I was intollerent, impatient, selfish, immature, and totally lacked awareness...

yet, my MIL was a pain in the butt...but, I never talked to her badly, or was jealous that my husband spent alone quality time with her...in fact, I encouraged it.  A mother will always be a mother. 

Men will side with their wives no matter what, just to keep peace...men hate confrontation, tears and fighting...it really sends they're whole systems into a tizzy...an imbalance.  Men are fixeres, and they hate going over and over and over things....so, they are going to agree with whomever to keep the peace.

Ladies...I've been on both sides of the coin, and as I said, my MIL was still my husband's mother and there is no way, I'd talk to her the way I've been treated and talked to by my own DIL...and the worst of it is...my son knows the truth...but prefers to stick his head in the sand.

Long story short...if you can't deal with her, then make certain you encourage a relationship between the both of them...if you have complaints about her, talk to your friends about it, not him, b/c all your doing is putting him in the middle and MAKING him choose, no matter how much you say you are not...you are....and in the end, he's going to choose his wife...she is the one he must live with...and men want their wives to be happy.

If you don't...and your immature, jealous and intimidated by the attention your husband shows his own mother, and you cause problems...I swear to you, whatever bad karma you dish out in life, will come back to you. 

MIL's are much older...they are set in their ways and when they say, I would do it this way or that, they are NOT always attacking your personality or who you are, they are mearly suggesting and thrilled to have a DIL...(not in all cases, as I realize there are some very nasty people in this world) but for the most part, a lot of these problems can be worked out and we start off on the wrong foot b/c we are immature, selfish, and cannot wait to start our own household/family.  And when a MIL says, I would do it this way, she doesn't mean your wrong....

In this case with you...I would leave it up to your husband and his mother...what is more important, winning or keeping peace...if you fight this you just make yourself sick and it ends up hurting so many people....stay away from her, but encourage your hubby that she is still his mother and he needs to acknowledge that and spend some time with her.  And think about this, what if you have children?  Will you keep them away from her as well?  None of us are ever going to think alike....all the time...but when someone does us wrong, we look for things...and I'm speaking about my own DIL...every stinkin thing I say, she finds fault with.  A woman her own age told me, "Oh bull!" she is looking for things to pin on you and fakes being hurt, because she is so starved for attention...I know she's right, but it's harder for me to see it clearly, b/c I'm emotionally involved.

My point is, in your heart of hearts, you know what the answers are...just please, do what is best for everyone...whatever you decide....but I promise you this...what ever your prioritize now, later in life, you will look back on and think, "Boy I should have handled that differently". 

Good Luck
Creme
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 11:56:22 AM
I understand your point Creme but to be honest, I don't think I"m the one with the jealousy problem here.  Or the lack of awareness problem...OR the immaturity.   

Yes I am younger than my FMIL but I think she is the one acting like a 2 year old - down to the temper tantrums and sulking.  In fact, the way you describe your DIL sounds exactly like my FMIL!  "every stinkin thing I say, she finds fault with.  A woman her own age told me, "Oh bull!" she is looking for things to pin on you and fakes being hurt, because she is so starved for attention...I know she's right, but it's harder for me to see it clearly, b/c I'm emotionally involved"

Yep, that sounds like her.   :o
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 11:57:29 AM
You girls are just breaking my heart!!! This is not right!  Isitme...  This is truly a battle for wills......
Distant DIL was horrible to me and close DIL was nice.  I'm positive that in some way I made Distant DIL mad by reacting to her mean nature.  Close DIL came in for the kill and the title of Queen.

I should have just been polite and kind to her, even when she threw her tantrums.  As a matter of fact, when I think about it, it makes me even madder at my DH.  After she pulled that stunt, she started playing up to him and the numb nut fell for it.  (sorry)

When someone is mean to you, what is human nature?  To keep away from them....that's what I did after they married and she turned on me.  I'm positive that she made son feel that we didn't love him.  It was self preservation. 

Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 12:08:33 PM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 11:57:29 AM
When someone is mean to you, what is human nature?  To keep away from them....that's what I did after they married and she turned on me.  I'm positive that she made son feel that we didn't love him.  It was self preservation. 

I don't know what to do Chickie....  I have told my BF over and over that I know his family loves him very much but that they are not going to change and treat me better and he can't wait for that to happen. I'm not trying to start ANY battles.

Creme and all the others who have advocated for just keeping the peace - I am all for that if it meant that there actually WAS peace.  There isn't though... there's just a lot of backstabbing and sniping and sulking that goes on behind my back instead.  Oh and I forgot the constant insults.  Does "keeping the peace" mean accepting that kind of abuse?  Does it mean allowing someone to walk all over you, treat you like sh*t and try to come between your relationship with your partner?  Let me repeat..I HAVE NEVER TRIED TO COME BETWEEN MY PARTNER AND HIS MOTHER.  She verbally abuses him and I keep quiet about it.  She verbally abuses me and we keep quiet about it.  YESTERDAY I GAVE HIM MY PHONE SO HE COULD CALL HER.  What's the point of getting married to my BF if this is how it's going to be?  I love him but this makes me so miserable, I think I would be happier alone then to allow my self-respect and trust in my partner be eroded away like this.
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 12:14:18 PM
This is so sad!  He is going to be so furious with his Mother if he loses you.
Nobody wins here.  This is a tragedy....
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 12:23:02 PM
I know.  I feel like it's lose-lose the way it is.  the saddest part is that the situation COULD be win-win if FMIL would just let it.  We could stay together, she could stay close to her son and I would try to be close to her.  She has burned a lot of bridges though and I'm not sure it will be possible anymore. 

Chickie, I know both of your DIL's have hurt you a lot.  I"ve read a lot of your posts and it sounds like they have burned their bridges with you too.  My question is - can these bridges be rebuilt?  At what price to our self-respect? 
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: cremebrulee on December 08, 2009, 12:29:02 PM
well then, let me tell you, if it's like this now, sadly it will only get worse after your married...you two will lock horns and it's going to get ugly...espescially if you get married...she will want front stage at the wedding, and want to make all the decissions.  If I were you, I'd get him and you both into counseling pronto....and if he doesn't want to go...then, tell him, it's over...b/c to keep going like this is devestating....I've been going thru this for going on 13 years now, and honey, it ain't worth it...it's a hurt that sucks the life out of you, it is life changing and you will never look at things the same again....these women are emotional vampires, who suck the life out of whomever they touch.  My DIL isn't married to my son....she OWNS him, he is her property?   :-\  very very sad....
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 12:31:39 PM
Yes, absolutely they can be re-built.  I'm willing to try till I die to get it done.  I will do anything.  The thing that is coming out in my posts is that close DIL is trying to be #1 with me and my husband.  I wish she wouldn't tell me as much as she has about distant DIL.

I don't care how much DDIL has done to me, CDIL should not be the way she is to her.  Imagine having all pictures, including baby books, without your picture as an Aunt in them?  All the photos on her tables are ones with us and both sons, not his wife.

I'm so &&$(%$(%$% mad now at CDIL I don't know what to do!  I can't cut my nose off to spite my face, though.  She calls me every day and includes me in everything.  I will lose her and I love her!  I wanted to love DDIL too and still can if she'll let me. 

I am so thankful for this site.  I have this all down on paper and it's making some sense. But yes, Isit....it could be good.  Not what I dreamed of but good.
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: Pen on December 08, 2009, 12:48:53 PM
This is all so sad. The DILs and MILs who have serious problems are causing such pain and sorrow and craziness for the rest of us. Is it narcissism? Bi-polar disorder? Just plain meanness?

In dealing with my DIL I often feel like the high school loser or the last chicken in the pecking order. No matter what I do I'll end up with a wedgie or all my feathers pecked out. Feeling that way must affect how I act around her which in turn affects how she treats me and so on and so on.

I agree that nothing will change until we get help for ourselves and set our boundaries for what treatment we will accept and what we won't. Unfortunately for MILs, that may mean we lose our sons as well. I'm not ready for that! So, I keep pulling out the wedgies and gluing the feathers back on.
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 12:58:17 PM
I do the same thing....I think you're right about them picking up on our hurt feelings.  I don't think it's a mental disorder, I think it's a battle for who is going to be Queen.  I don't want to be Queen or Duchess or Lady in Waiting or anything.  I just want to be a Mother and Grandmother and not get kicked out of the palace. 

I will do anything....I don't want to lose my son and grandchildren. You never know what is really going on behind closed doors, do you?  I once thought that we were the only ones going through this.  It is common, I think. 

Our problem is that we don't understand the new way of the world. We are caught in the last century, even though we're not that old.  I think people might be surprised how young we really are.

I don't like this new world.  Everyone is so "clippy" and "curt".  I don't do clippy and curt. 




Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 01:01:48 PM
Quote from: cremebrulee on December 08, 2009, 12:29:02 PM
well then, let me tell you, if it's like this now, sadly it will only get worse after your married...you two will lock horns and it's going to get ugly...espescially if you get married...she will want front stage at the wedding, and want to make all the decissions.  If I were you, I'd get him and you both into counseling pronto....and if he doesn't want to go...then, tell him, it's over...b/c to keep going like this is devestating....I've been going thru this for going on 13 years now, and honey, it ain't worth it...it's a hurt that sucks the life out of you, it is life changing and you will never look at things the same again....these women are emotional vampires, who suck the life out of whomever they touch.  My DIL isn't married to my son....she OWNS him, he is her property?   :-\  very very sad....

I'm really sad that this has been your experience with your DIL - if only we could swap our unhealthy MILS and DILS for some of the "surrogates" on this webpage!  I know things are just going to get harder after we get married....the initial problem was making BF understand that it would get worse and not BETTER - but I think he's starting to realize it now.  At least I hope so.  But I think it's going to take counseling...and I"m going to bring it up with him very soon... :'(

Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 01:20:54 PM
I looked up Emotional Vampires and boy hydie, I think I'll become a recluse. I can't deal with these people.  What has happened to humans?  We have evolved into a creepy society.
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 01:28:28 PM
There's a great book about Emotional Vampires and how to deal with them by Albert Bernstein.  I actually read it before I ever started dating my BF but it helped me learn how to cope with a lot of negative people in my life at the time and it still does.  I highly recommend it!
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 01:40:48 PM
I guess I'll read it.....someone is one, I just don't know who it is. 
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 01:45:32 PM
A good point made in the book is that we ALL have some negative qualities.  The metaphor of the vampire is a good one - most of us can recognize that we have faults.... but hold up a mirror to a vampire and they can't see their own reflection....

There were definitely things I read that I could see applied to ME - and I've done my best to work on those issues.... I am always willing to admit that I am not perfect and am constantly growing, maturing, learning etc. etc.

There were also a lot of signs that people in my life (an ex BF, college friend etc.) who were causing me trouble WERE emotional vampires and the book really helped me recognize that and learn to cut them loose.  Since then the book has always been a good reference for learning how to identify and deal with toxic people... narcissists, passive-agressive types, histrionic types etc. etc.

I really hope you are able to get the book Chickie.....it's a good read and I feel like it has made me a better person AND better able to deal with others.  I hope it can do the same for you!  :)
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 02:13:32 PM
When they hold the mirror up, who do they see if they don't see themselves? 

Geeze, I'm not one, am I?  I seem to be responsible for everything. 
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: Aisling on December 08, 2009, 02:14:24 PM
Quote from: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 11:01:28 AMAisling, thanks.. I think I"m going to tell my BF that I no longer feel like a united front and I would like us to try couples therapy. 

...the truth is, it's everything that has happened since day 1...

Sometimes I wonder if we should wait too - but since his mother now refuses to talk to me on the phone to "air her issues" (been there, done that, it means nothing), I dont' think it can.  I"m not about to give in to her tantrum and make a special trip (4 hours away) up to visit her just so she can cry and continue to have tantrums.  Is that unreasonable of me?

When you talk to your BF about therapy, if he wants specific examples, tell him exactly what you said here: that's it's everything that has happened since day 1, and that you've discussed it before, and he already knows what the problem is.

It isn't at all unreasonable of you to refuse to make yourself available to this toxic person.

Quote from: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 12:08:33 PMDoes "keeping the peace" mean accepting that kind of abuse?  Does it mean allowing someone to walk all over you, treat you like sh*t and try to come between your relationship with your partner?

No.  You should respect yourself, because you are an awesome person, and realize that you deserve to be treated better than this.  There is no earthly reason to allow yourself to be abused.

I understand how much you want your BF and FMIL to be happy.  I do.  It's a good and noble intention.  But anyone who needs to destroy you in order to be happy is sick, and you shouldn't feed into that.  If your BF truly loves his mother, he'll understand that he has to stop feeding into her evilness and neediness too.  For an analogy, imagine FMIL's problem was drinking.  You'd know that your BF would be better off if he weren't sitting there pouring her drinks, right?  He needs to cut off her supply of her drugs of choice (these being his attention and your pain) because it's the only thing that's going to save this relationship in the long term.

This doesn't mean he has to cut her off entirely.  But he will have to accept that you get to cut her off, and that he has to maintain very strong boundaries with her.  You two will have to negotiate those boundaries between yourselves.  But it's the only way to save yourself, your BF, and your FMIL from the sucking void of dysfunction and despair she's turning herself into.

Quote from: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 11:04:42 AMI think I mentioned that I'm going to a counselor.  I have to go because I have to save myself. What you don't understand is that to lose your child, not through death but through marriage, is like a death but you don't get a funeral, a closure.

These others don't matter. 

The only reason I'm going to counseling is because it's through our church and it's free.  No more money is going to be spent by me to try to figure this out!  I can only change myself.

I'm glad you're in counseling, and I really do hope it helps.  Hopefully it'll help you learn that you should be grateful for any and all love you recieve in this world.  I think you'd be a much happier person if you could.
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: cest moi on December 08, 2009, 03:32:44 PM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 12:31:39 PM
Yes, absolutely they can be re-built.  I'm willing to try till I die to get it done.  I will do anything.  The thing that is coming out in my posts is that close DIL is trying to be #1 with me and my husband.  I wish she wouldn't tell me as much as she has about distant DIL.

I don't care how much DDIL has done to me, CDIL should not be the way she is to her.  Imagine having all pictures, including baby books, without your picture as an Aunt in them?  All the photos on her tables are ones with us and both sons, not his wife.

I'm so &&$(%$(%$% mad now at CDIL I don't know what to do!  I can't cut my nose off to spite my face, though.  She calls me every day and includes me in everything.  I will lose her and I love her!  I wanted to love DDIL too and still can if she'll let me. 

This struck me and I felt like adding my two cents. You can't do anything about the pictures but I think if CDIL is telling you things about DDIL and you're just listening to her to be polite then things might get back to DDIL and make it look like you are supporting the mean things CDIL is doing to her. I think your best bet is to just tell CDIL that you are trying to make a positive change throughout your life and that you only want to hear good things about people unless whatever they are doing is putting you or loved ones in imminent danger.  Make it all about you and your feelings... 'When I hear negative things about people I love it makes ME feel sad and down'. Then do your best and don't talk anything negative about any person with CDIL. Hopefully that way CDIL won't take it as a slam on her but you trying to make your life better/ more pleasant.  And with luck DDIL will be able to see a change in dynamics and eventually you can come to an understanding.
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 03:35:18 PM
That's a wonderful idea and I think you're right.  I do want so much to make DDIL feel like I care about her.  CDIL is not helping but she is very good to me and I don't want to lose her.  Thank you!!
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: just2baccepted on December 08, 2009, 04:45:51 PM
Isitme- I really think that I would consider counseling before I give up on the relationship.  Its hard to find someone special to spend your life with.  I know I get so tired of dealing with this problem, I just want to scream sometimes.  But my DH is worth the stress so maybe counseling would help you.  Good Luck.
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: isitme? on December 08, 2009, 04:54:11 PM
Thanks Just2B - after reading all the posts today, I came home from work feeling...well not better, but empowered I think.  I'm going tell BF that I would like us to go to counseling because I don't think we are managing this very well on our own.  He has never let me down before so I am hopeful that he will agree.  Poor guy is working very late today though  :(
I have to remember not to get angry with him - I know he is struggling with this too.  I think I've been able to work out a lot of things by posting with the ladies on this forum so thank you all very much for your advice and support!
Title: Re: would like some advice please
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 08, 2009, 05:15:07 PM
Isitme, I know what you mean about 'it never being a good time to talk about this kind of thing' so I'll be thinking about you when you talk with him.  Best wishes!