Okay, here is her side, but all disguised in what I have learned is
manufactured on her part and never relates to what actually
happened. When I read this, I hear her yelling, talking fast
and aggressive. Immovable. But maybe because I've listened
to her so many times.
Interesting.
What happened at the babyshower?
She is obviously very angry. But she isn't in cut off mode either. Willing to share a birthday in some way. And willing to meet and discuss issues and give you time with the grand daughter.
I have to say she has a point. She isn't saying anything that isn't unfair really - but maybe unfair to your situation. I don't see her asking for anything over the top - do not stop by unannounced (as suspected - she wouldn't like that) and she would like your relationship with her child to be a permanent fixture or none at all - which I think is fair, maybe she fears a similar relationship to the one you had with your son, who knows?
Her wording is aggressive and the last paragraph is her really showing her teeth as momma bear. I don't know the intimicies of your relationship so no clue if its warranted but giving you the benefit of the doubt here, her tone is NOT helping in mending fences.
Take time to think about this before you respond is my advice.
Hey there again triple. First, thank you for being so open and sharing that with us here. I know you sincerly want some advice on what she said. One thing we try to do here is help protect our members and help try to keep some of your confidential things more anonymous. I deleted the actual email for that reason. Can you please just kind of paraphrase what she said for everyone? Thanks.
Since I did get to see it, I will tell you that her wording was very harsh, IMO. There were nicer ways to say what she was trying to get across and it did come across as very aggressive and demanding.
I do agree with alohomora that if you take the emotion out of it, it doesn't sound like she is to the point of cutting you out of the picture. She is relating that it will be her rules and you will have to decide for yourself if you can live with her rules and agree that things will be done her way.
The one thing that she did say that really bugged me was the "I don't care about your feelings". That does say to me that she is not interested in forming a relationship with you, but she did say she is willing to let you have a relationship with GD on her terms.
I too am curious what she was referencing about the baby shower incident?
I didn't see the email, so I don't know how harsh she was and what she said. I'm going to offer this up. Do try to look past the writing style and focus on what she actually said. I suggest this because sometimes people intentially use a harsh style to push people away. She might be being deliberately mean and provocative to push you away. Then down the line she can point out how she tried to include you in their lives, but "your delicate little feelings got hurt" because her language wasn't to your liking.
Good Luck!
Oh you are SO right on.
I wrote an email to my son --after she didn't reply (sooner) and told him if anything was
going to change.. it was up to him.
I'm sure he shared with her, so she decided to respond to me (hence this email) and all
for show, as with everything she seems to do.
Thank you
Maybe you should take a look at what you are doing to push her buttons so badly.
This whole thing seems like a contest to see who can be on top, the boss, who can flatten the other one. Is that what you really want?
You will never be able to get to that GB unless you find some way to give her some respect as a mom. I know, I'm going through something a little similar to you. I realize, though, that my relationship to my GB is entirely dependent on what her mom thinks about me. If I make her mom hate me, I don't have a chance with the GB
Did you have relatives that your Mom didn't like? What did you think about them as you were growing up?
All that you say is true. I am a loving person, and have not mistreated or responded negatively, nor even got angry at her.
I've been baffled by her response to me and identify it as her idea of what love is.. it's like if she
sees my son loving me too much, she must destroy it. which concerns me with a baby, but
then again none of this has been rational. I took a friend of mine to the shower for back up because of the events that had occurred with GF around the shower in the days b4. she watched her in action.
Believe me if there was something I could except agree that I did things I didn't do --which is just a smoke screen anyway....I would have done it.
thank you again
hope I can share some of my experience with you .....
whatever you say or send to your son , he will show it to his partner .
My DIL complained that my issue was with her , so I should deal directly with her , which I did eventually.
you are putting your son in the middle , which he will find very difficult , wanting to support you ,
but also having to side with his partner .
I don't know what caused this rift , as I didn't see the post , but whatever it was , it sounds as though it is
between you and her .
In order to make things ok , you must at first make peace with your son's partner .
I managed to do this with equal respect on both sides .
You have to accept she is the mother of his child at the same time she has to respect you as his mother .
This is where most DIL/MIL relations fall down , until you reach this point , it will carry on at loggerheads .
I was a huge thing for me to offer an olive branch , but my granddaughter meant more to me than my pride .
I would still wait until tempers are cooled and approach with caution to her , not your son .
If she is determined to block you out of their lives , you will have tried your best .
I don't doubt that you are what you say you are - maybe that is what driving her crazy! I'm just saying, the route to your GB is through her. You have to decide if you want to remake yourself to be the person she thinks you should be in order to have access to her GB.
For me, it wasn't worth it to have my DIL try to manipulate me in order to be with my GB.
Maybe it is for you. Sorry to be so pushy with my opinion - your GB's mama reminds me of my DIL a bit and I feel myself getting steamed up for you.
My solution for now is to build on my good relationship with my son, enjoy pictures and stories he sends about GB. I don't put him in the middle of anything with her, just keep things like and easy so he enjoys talking to me. The last time she and I communicated, she told me to go away and leave her alone, don't talk to her so I'm following her instructions.
What she wants is for me to say I did things when my son wasn't around, that I can't say I did
because I know otherwise.
And I think she's plain scary..so if I did lie (and that's not going to happen) then would I be
around her more.. yes.. and my GD yes..but it would only be temporary and the same turmoil and lying, and drama NO.. I'm done.
I'm taking the advice that says it's just not the right time.
thanks
The 5 stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, & acceptance.
A dear friend is awaiting results from a biopsy. I've been thinking about her and the posts here today. I have a picture of all of us amazing women standing in a crowd, some of us randomly getting zapped for no rhyme or reason: breast cancer, job layoff, troubled kid, tree falling, tornado, wicked MIL, crazy DIL (or vice versa) etc. It's not fair, but there it is.
None of us deserves the poor treatment we have gotten from others, but we can't change anyone but ourselves. I think you just made a wise choice, TripleLace. Spend this time on yourself!
thank you
That's great that you healed the rift with your DL. Mine has been this way since I came off the road and met her. (baby or no baby) I don't even understand what it means to not respect her as the
mother of the child.
I don't respect her. personally, she has done nothing but destroy any trust at all even though it was given freely at first..but I have never suggested to her, she do, or be anything other than what she is or has been. Sorry , it's all on her. Sorry to be right about something like this.
She destroys the homes she lives in, she runs out into the neighborhood with just underpants on screaming at my son with a butchers knife chasing him down the street. Her temper never cools down. Approaching her at all is dangerous and I've just decided to stay away. (LOL)
Tripleplace, good for you in recognizing your limits. Life is too short.
thank you Pen!
You know Triplelace , if we had the whole picture , we could see where you are coming from .
I was never faced with what you are facing , and looking at the picture you are painting , I would steer clear too .
I hope your son realises what he is getting into , and follows suit .
Wishing you the best ....LL
You are lovely, lancaster lady
I did not see the email, but I feel a sense of relief that you got some response, any response. The angry tone makes sense, as I would expect nothing differently from a person who's capable of chasing someone down the street with a butcher knife.
The line "I do not care about your feelings" may have been composed in direct response to the line "It feels strange not to see my granddaughter grow up" without a lot of thought past that behind it.
The upside is you reached out and you got some information that you did not have before. The motto for reading around wisewomenunite is "Take what you want and leave the rest." I think it would apply perfectly to this email. Register only the bits of info you can use to help you make your decisions going forward, and leave her tone, negativitity and the hostility behind.
I'm sorry the mother of your granddaughter is such a meanie.
Good for you triple. I know it's easier for me to say because I did see the email, but I can't decide if I just wouldn't answer it at all or would just respond with "Thank you for taking the time to write me back" and nothing else. The reason I am saying that is normally, I would say in a heartbeat, do not respond, she is spoiling for a battle. But because of her wording, I almost think no response is going to give her what she is looking for. The ability to say, "See, I answered her and she ignored it."
Then again, with the tone of the email and the underpants/knife story....I think no matter what you do, it's going to be wrong in her eyes when someone is that hostile. Sooo....I think I would wait, and next time your DS contacts you, I would just casually mention to him something like, "Hey, I got GF's email response and I appreciate her taking the time to write me back. I am giving you guys your space, so I didn't respond." I think in that way, you are not putting DS in the middle, but if GF does rant at him about you not responding, he has your reason why if she starts telling lies?
Let the others chime in on this one, because I am really torn on this. I still would like to know, only if you want to, was there a big scene of some sort at the shower?
I did not see the email, however my thoughts were if the email was that hostile and it took her a week to write back, she must be very, very angry.
Usually people take their time answering so they can collect their thoughts and calm down when they are angry. But since it was still so apparently hostile, I really don't know. Coupled with the knife story, I wouldn't want to personally be around her.
I'm very tired tonight, but I will fill you in later on the 'shower'-- really just more of the
same
I'm glad you're posting Triple , we are here day and night , any time you want to chat . Sweet Dreams .
Quote from: Pen on September 22, 2011, 02:36:33 PM
The 5 stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, & acceptance.
A dear friend is awaiting results from a biopsy. I've been thinking about her and the posts here today. I have a picture of all of us amazing women standing in a crowd, some of us randomly getting zapped for no rhyme or reason: breast cancer, job layoff, troubled kid, tree falling, tornado, wicked MIL, crazy DIL (or vice versa) etc. It's not fair, but there it is.
None of us deserves the poor treatment we have gotten from others, but we can't change anyone but ourselves. I think you just made a wise choice, TripleLace. Spend this time on yourself!
So true Pen, some people who are hit by a cruel twist of fate ask: Why me? Others Why not me?
Sorry to hear about your problem triple. Many of us are catapulted from the idyll of life as a young family to a life full of problems often caused by one person only. But she is not going to go away and as mother of GC is important. Maybe in time the situation will heal but I think it will only happen with lots of patience on your side. Nothing is static in life and we never know what's round the corner and people can change and trust can be reinstated. We have to believe this in order to carry on. And if it doesn't happen, the scar will always be there but the wound will heal in time and other things will happen to make your joy of life return. Thinking of you ....
I love my boys but sometimes I think it would be so much easier to deal with SILs rather than DILs - I'll never know - only there are so few issues with SILs mentioned on this site. It seems to be exclusively MIL/DIL relationships that are so dysfunctional. WHY o WHY???? :'(
I notice most of the issues on this forum are with MIL/DIL. I don't think this is a coincidence. I believe its the oldest thing in the world, woman rivalry. This is the case with my issue with MIL. I am the odd one out here it seems, most of the forum is written by MIL re. DIL devils. Anyway, I was married before and never knew anything about MIL issues, mine was stressless. But this marriage hit me blindsided, as MIL made my life miserable. I'm not blaming her entirely, but the dynamics were similar to jealousy. In my case, I was maybe subconsciously disgusted by MIL's gush-ey lovey attitude toward my dh, her ds. She was a great person when dh wasn't around, but when the three of us were together, I sensed a different dynamic coming from her. This is just an observation, but maybe MIL's communicate this to DIL's without their knowledge. I think MIL/DIL is probably one of the most difficult relationship dynamics there is, and it probably isn't addressed enough in society.
I do agree, Ruth. It's so good to have a DIL here on this site because it can all get a bit one-sided.
I reckon most MILs and DILs seen separately are the best, kindest people you can find but the moment they get together somehow the dynamics change. I'm not a competetive person at all and I think I'm not possessive but maybe it's all different when I adopt the role of MIL - my whole personality changes and I feel I'm not myself anymore. One wise woman on this site mentioned that we should give this MIL/DIL relationship time to grow. It may take years before it shapes into a meaningful relationship based on mutual respect and trust.
I wish I had known this beforehand because I didn't do that. When they announced their engagement, I accepted my DIL immediately to honour my DS love for her! (See where the problem lies, it's not her as a person I saw but I saw her as the partner of my son - period!) I showered gifts on her, told her I loved her etc. etc. when all along I probably just went along with the flow - ughhh!
Reading posts on this site has given me a lot of insights and I know now that this was wrong. She must have felt all along that I didn't take her seriously and she must have resented this.
When I moved close to them last year to help with the new GC issues of alienation arose and we were all really miserable. We behaved wrongly to each other because we were always afraid and both of us were really insecure. We both ignored the 'tread softly because you tread on my dreams' (J. Joyce) advice. Well meaning is just not enough. I know this now. DS didn't help at all. He was probably equally confused.
I don't live near any more and we have not really sorted our relationship out as yet because I felt that talking about the things that happened wouldn't make us feel closer to each other at that time because we were too close to everything. However when we parted we hugged and both of us said that we were sorry for the things that happened. I really think that only patience and time will heal what has been broken. I don't feel angry towards her at all just sad that the relationship with a key person in my life should not work properly. Mind you, i have learned to see her as a person now which is a step in the right direction I suppose. No more presents to woo her, just gifts that come from the heart.
I must add that I am an only child so not well versed in dealing with conflict whereas she comes from a larger family and deals with conflict there and then. She must have felt I was for ever pushing issues aside without addressing them but thinking badly about her and no end of presents and good will gestures changed that. I do wonder how she saw me and what memories she has of me?????????
I'm now in the process of healing myself and hope that when we next see each other we will be on the path to sorting things out but I'm aware it will be a long process. Wish me patience and luck!
All DILs on the site, I do love your input, It is very valuable.
My dear Chelms because you have just 100% mirrored my inner thoughts and sentiments on this, it must be a more prevalent dynamic that we ever thought, or I ever thought. I always saw my MIL issue as being a big deviation from normalcy (same as aleination with ds) and because of that it became a dark monster in my life. No talking about it, just something you wake up at 3 a.m. with it on your mind and it is terrifying. My MIL just adored me at first, because I know she saw me as the angel of mercy come to make her sons life more comfortable, joyous, etc. She never saw me as an individual. She never asked how 'my work day went' or how 'my' children and grandchildren fared, at least not in any way other than politeness. I resented her terribly and it grew out of control. Although neither of us ever said a confrontative word to each other in person, our relationship was destroyed. My dh played a major role in that by telling her our personal issues. Its all water under the bridge now, and too much damage was done to fix it other than by lots of time healing. I hoped my experience might help heal another family who has time to not make those mistakes. I do love my MIL very much now, but I could not risk a relationship with her because I'm afraid it would all repeat itself. I am also in an odd position as my MIL is more a peer than an elder, she is only about 17 yrs my senior. I can't tell you anything I think you could do to actually help the problems with your DIL, because I don't think there's a thing in the world my MIL could do, we both realize unspokenly that we can't intermix. However, 50% off the biggest damage done was in her not being willing to step aside from the intimate and wonderful relationship she had enjoyed so many years with her ds, to defer to his new wife. I know it would have been very hard for her, and she wasn't prepared for a DIL. Have you noticed there aren't any forums for mil issues with sils? probably because there mostly aren't any. thanks for writing this, it has helped me go another rung up the ladder toward getting a little more peace of mind, and that is worth its weight in gold.
Ruth & Chelmsford, wow..you ladies are making a lot of sense.
For me, even though my MIL is mentally ill, I do find the whole thing so off putting in my life. Like it's shameful in a way, to not get along with her. She's also what I call a one off in my life. I don't have these types of problems with people very often, if at all, except for her. And since I have zero experience with this sort of family dispute it makes it that much harder to find a way to get along.
I also think women do find a lot of self esteem in relationships and so having a poor one with another female family member is very hard for the females. Whichever role they are in.
I'm not really groking this from a DIL point of view. My MIL and I just widened our family spheres when I got married. We didn't always agree and we were both stubborn but we never cut each other off, we just told each other what we thought, then moved on. That's one reason I don't understand my DIL cutting me off. Where's the benefit of that? I'm truly, honestly not an unreasonable ogre.
When MIL got dementia, she moved in with us for the last years of her life. She thought she was in a boarding house with some nice people. My husband would not put her in a nursing home and even though it was hard (I had 2 toddlers at the time), we did it because she was family.
I'm not trying to sound righteous about the whole thing - I think it's too bad that families have gotten brittle.
I agree Doe. I could not stand my first MIL, but I never cut her off and continued the relationship just accepting it for what it was and keeping the family in contact. I do think Ruth and Chelms make alot of sense, as many women can not get along with other women. Jealousy, competition, fear....who knows what it is but even the women I work with will be evil to each other but treat their male counterparts totally different. I've never understood it.
Ruth, I think there aren't any boards for Sons-in-law, because guys deal with it differently. My DH had two horrible MILs, my M and his previous MIL who was truly a monster. He would never think to go looking for support on-line. My xH could also have used the support, but never would have looked for it, because when I was married to him, I was very enmeshed with my M, which had a very negative impact on our M. It wasn't the final reason we split up, but it certainly contributed to the overall bad marriage we had. Come to think of it, my D had a horrible MIL. GM was the kind who hated every one of the men her DD ever dated. She loved D before he was with M, but after he was garbage and us kids knew it. She really undermined our relationship with him, as my M attempted to undermine DH's relationships with my children. It is a legacy I do my best not to pass on.