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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 07:47:09 AM

Title: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 07:47:09 AM
I don't know what causes a person to be so rigid that they would deliberately withold any outside joy their child could be having just because it's not on their schedule.  This is so ridiculous.  We are going to a resort this weekend, very close in proximity to my DIL and son.  We emailed DIL and it so happened that our son called us and we told him on the phone.  He was overjoyed, said they would be there and how much fun the kids would have.  DIL never answered my email but our son called and said the kids were busy. Maybe he didn't know on the phone?  Could have been.   But I've seen her say no for no reason, just to be in control.  My husband and I will have fun anyway but it's such a shame that they could not swing by our cottage just for a minute.  This behavior must be caused by having a Mother who God speaks to exclusively?
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: Miss Understood on August 26, 2010, 08:08:48 AM
I'm sorry BT. It's hard to think that they "really" could have been busy instead of maybe rearranging their schedule for something special. It's funny how we, MOMs/MIL's rearrange our schedule for them all the time and they can't or refuse to do it for us. My mom used to say the same thing and I used to say she didn't understand, but now I feel her pain. I have to say that this thing with my DS has created a closeness that I haven't had in years with my own parents. It's a shame that it took that long and my mother is terminally ill and dying soon. Sometimes I tell myself that GOD allowed this to happen with my DS for me to find that closeness with my own parents. Sometimes I think I feed myself a bunch of garbage to make sense of the thing that doesn't make sense. I write my thoughts down and read them later on...I call myself the fool. Nope...no excuse...they are selfish, spoiled, game playing brats who hurt people to justify that they are big and bad grown ups playing house.
Have fun on your trip. If I lived closer....I'd come by and see you.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 08:20:11 AM
Quote from: Miss Understood on August 26, 2010, 08:08:48 AM
I'm sorry BT. It's hard to think that they "really" could have been busy instead of maybe rearranging their schedule for something special. It's funny how we, MOMs/MIL's rearrange our schedule for them all the time and they can't or refuse to do it for us. My mom used to say the same thing and I used to say she didn't understand, but now I feel her pain. I have to say that this thing with my DS has created a closeness that I haven't had in years with my own parents. It's a shame that it took that long and my mother is terminally ill and dying soon. Sometimes I tell myself that GOD allowed this to happen with my DS for me to find that closeness with my own parents. Sometimes I think I feed myself a bunch of garbage to make sense of the thing that doesn't make sense. I write my thoughts down and read them later on...I call myself the fool. Nope...no excuse...they are selfish, spoiled, game playing brats who hurt people to justify that they are big and bad grown ups playing house.
Have fun on your trip. If I lived closer....I'd come by and see you.

I just don't understand saying no out of the blue for no reason. Maybe there is a reason. I think our son needed to be controlled. THey sought each other out, I think. Well, we will have a good time anyway. Poor kids.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 09:06:57 AM
Quote from: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 08:20:11 AM
Quote from: Miss Understood on August 26, 2010, 08:08:48 AM
I'm sorry BT. It's hard to think that they "really" could have been busy instead of maybe rearranging their schedule for something special. It's funny how we, MOMs/MIL's rearrange our schedule for them all the time and they can't or refuse to do it for us. My mom used to say the same thing and I used to say she didn't understand, but now I feel her pain. I have to say that this thing with my DS has created a closeness that I haven't had in years with my own parents. It's a shame that it took that long and my mother is terminally ill and dying soon. Sometimes I tell myself that GOD allowed this to happen with my DS for me to find that closeness with my own parents. Sometimes I think I feed myself a bunch of garbage to make sense of the thing that doesn't make sense. I write my thoughts down and read them later on...I call myself the fool. Nope...no excuse...they are selfish, spoiled, game playing brats who hurt people to justify that they are big and bad grown ups playing house.
Have fun on your trip. If I lived closer....I'd come by and see you.

I just don't understand saying no out of the blue for no reason. Maybe there is a reason. I think our son needed to be controlled. THey sought each other out, I think. Well, we will have a good time anyway. Poor kids.

We had called to chat with the  kids about 3 weeks ago. So while on the phone, we said to one of the kids, "can we take you and Mommy and Daddy for ice cream in about 3 weeks?"  The GC turned to her Mother and said, "Can I get ice cream when GM and GPa come?" The Mother said , "no".  and that was it.

Our pathetic son did not say one word.  Sometimes this whole thing gets the best of me and I just want to sob but other times, I don't care as much. I live for the days when I don't care as much.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: Pen on August 26, 2010, 09:54:20 AM
Maybe DIL wants to be the one who is asked first before you bring it up to the children (she may see it as manipulation via the kids, not good.) Who knows if the answer would have been different, but she would have had to say "no" directly to you and that might have made her rethink her knee-jerk reaction?

IMHO, people who behave in such a controlling manner don't know the pain and hurt they're causing those they claim to love (DH & DC.) It's hard to believe they know and just don't care.

Take care. Baby steps are OK.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 10:02:41 AM
Quote from: Pen on August 26, 2010, 09:54:20 AM
Maybe DIL wants to be the one who is asked first before you bring it up to the children (she may see it as manipulation via the kids, not good.) Who knows if the answer would have been different, but she would have had to say "no" directly to you and that might have made her rethink her knee-jerk reaction?

IMHO, people who behave in such a controlling manner don't know the pain and hurt they're causing those they claim to love (DH & DC.) It's hard to believe they know and just don't care.

Take care. Baby steps are OK.

We should have asked her first, you're right-- but since she won't answer the phone, we thought when our son called we'd mention it to him that we were headed that way.  He was overjoyed. She doesn't like that, of course.  Hates for him to laugh; she doesn't get humor. I should have left a message on her answering machine but she would have thought I was doing it so the kids could hear me and usurping her authority.  Babysteps, yes. What About Bob did well with those. 8)
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: luise.volta on August 26, 2010, 11:48:03 AM
I don't think there is any right way to do it. When others are committed to blocking us...that's what they do. It is sometimes a lost cause to look for logic in the illogical. Darn their hides!!! There, that's my logic.  :o
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: Miss Understood on August 26, 2010, 02:44:40 PM
Quoted from BTWe should have asked her first, you're right-- but since she won't answer the phone, we thought when our son called we'd mention it to him that we were headed that way.  He was overjoyed. She doesn't like that, of course.  Hates for him to laugh; she doesn't get humor. I should have left a message on her answering machine but she would have thought I was doing it so the kids could hear me and usurping her authority.  Babysteps, yes. What About Bob did well with those.  

Don't you just hate that you have to play games and not be real with yourself and to them. I have a daughter with a child. I do not have to pretend anything....she let's me be me with her and thanks me often for enriching her daughter. The other day I picked her up for a 4 day visit with us. I said to my daughter that her hair and bangs were getting so long. My daughter says, "well, cut them." I said, "NNNNOOOOO. NOT MY JOB, I dare not get in trouble" Her reply, "Mom, don't be silly. she's your GD and I trust you. If I don't like the haircut, it will grow back."
I kissed her and thanked her. Even the Garbage my DS and DIL is making me gunshy and walk on egg shells all around my life. I HATE THAT! I WANT TO BE ME!!!!!
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 02:50:19 PM
Quote from: Miss Understood on August 26, 2010, 02:44:40 PM
Quoted from BTWe should have asked her first, you're right-- but since she won't answer the phone, we thought when our son called we'd mention it to him that we were headed that way.  He was overjoyed. She doesn't like that, of course.  Hates for him to laugh; she doesn't get humor. I should have left a message on her answering machine but she would have thought I was doing it so the kids could hear me and usurping her authority.  Babysteps, yes. What About Bob did well with those.  

Don't you just hate that you have to play games and not be real with yourself and to them. I have a daughter with a child. I do not have to pretend anything....she let's me be me with her and thanks me often for enriching her daughter. The other day I picked her up for a 4 day visit with us. I said to my daughter that her hair and bangs were getting so long. My daughter says, "well, cut them." I said, "NNNNOOOOO. NOT MY JOB, I dare not get in trouble" Her reply, "Mom, don't be silly. she's your GD and I trust you. If I don't like the haircut, it will grow back."
I kissed her and thanked her. Even the Garbage my DS and DIL is making me gunshy and walk on egg shells all around my life. I HATE THAT! I WANT TO BE ME!!!!!

It is said to make sure you have at least one Daughter. You are not a threat to them.  I apologize to all on here who are having Daughter problems. She will likely grow up to be your best friend after all this hullabaloo.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: luise.volta on August 26, 2010, 03:10:35 PM
Focus on what you love and that will expand. Look past what you hate and it will contract. You are having everything "be the way it is" because you don't have any other choice. Sending love...
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 03:37:25 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on August 26, 2010, 03:10:35 PM
Focus on what you love and that will expand. Look past what you hate and it will contract. You are having everything "be the way it is" because you don't have any other choice. Sending love...

I'm trying to understand what you mean because it's important to me but I don't understand the part of "be the way it is" because you don't have any other choice.  Can you explain? 
By the way, You will have Angel Eyes or one Angel Eye.  That's what we'll have to call you after your surgery.  Nice name, I think.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: Miss Understood on August 26, 2010, 04:28:47 PM
It is said to make sure you have at least one Daughter. You are not a threat to them.  I apologize to all on here who are having Daughter problems. She will likely grow up to be your best friend after all this hullabaloo.

Yes, for those who have daughters. My oldest went through a rebellous stage. Kind of like, "I am a woman, you're not the only one." but she grew out of it and yes....can be my best friend. She realized that I taught her to be the strong woman she is and that she wasn't just given that as a natural talent. That is why women are so smart....We figure things out.

My Grandma, my Dad's mom. 5 boys, no sisters. All the son's treated her like she was a piece of garbage. She always walked on egg shells and sat at the kid's table during family gatherings. She was the most wonderful woman I ever met. Until this happened to me....I didn't really see that she had 5 DIL's that were insecure and mean....Including my mother. Which now brings back so many memories that I can say truthfully...Yes, there is an alienation game going on. Shame, Shame, Shame on them.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 04:37:39 PM
Quote from: Miss Understood on August 26, 2010, 04:28:47 PM
It is said to make sure you have at least one Daughter. You are not a threat to them.  I apologize to all on here who are having Daughter problems. She will likely grow up to be your best friend after all this hullabaloo.

Yes, for those who have daughters. My oldest went through a rebellous stage. Kind of like, "I am a woman, you're not the only one." but she grew out of it and yes....can be my best friend. She realized that I taught her to be the strong woman she is and that she wasn't just given that as a natural talent. That is why women are so smart....We figure things out.

My Grandma, my Dad's mom. 5 boys, no sisters. All the son's treated her like she was a piece of garbage. She always walked on egg shells and sat at the kid's table during family gatherings. She was the most wonderful woman I ever met. Until this happened to me....I didn't really see that she had 5 DIL's that were insecure and mean....Including my mother. Which now brings back so many memories that I can say truthfully...Yes, there is an alienation game going on. Shame, Shame, Shame on them.

Your poor Grandmother.  Any reasons given when they were doing that to her? (not that any resons are reasonable)
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: Miss Understood on August 26, 2010, 06:43:38 PM
Ya know...not sure. I just remember growing up...with the cousins and the parents complaining about her. We were always confused (as kids) but when my grandma died, several of us cleaned her apartment....well, that is when the discussions went on. All of us, from different families, had the same stories. Our parents (both of them) would always complain about her, make fun of her, talk mean about her. None of us Grandkids understood it. We all thought she was the sweetest, kindest and warmest person we knew. I didn't realize it was a DIL thing till this happened to me. Then I talked to my Brother and Sister and We all agree that we saw it growing up.
See....Grandkids will be affected by this. They absolutely will. They will figure it out if they get a chance to know you. Thankfully, I got to know my Grandma. I fear that my GD will never know how much I loved her and how innocent that I am in all of this. :(
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 06:48:44 PM
Quote from: Miss Understood on August 26, 2010, 06:43:38 PM
Ya know...not sure. I just remember growing up...with the cousins and the parents complaining about her. We were always confused (as kids) but when my grandma died, several of us cleaned her apartment....well, that is when the discussions went on. All of us, from different families, had the same stories. Our parents (both of them) would always complain about her, make fun of her, talk mean about her. None of us Grandkids understood it. We all thought she was the sweetest, kindest and warmest person we knew. I didn't realize it was a DIL thing till this happened to me. Then I talked to my Brother and Sister and We all agree that we saw it growing up.
See....Grandkids will be affected by this. They absolutely will. They will figure it out if they get a chance to know you. Thankfully, I got to know my Grandma. I fear that my GD will never know how much I loved her and how innocent that I am in all of this. :(

I hope she knew that you love her. I'll bet she did. What a sad life, huh?  I have a cousin who has found out she had a grandmother the whole time (her Dad's Mother) and didn't know it. Now her Mother is dying and her GM is still alive. I'll bet there's a story there.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: Miss Understood on August 26, 2010, 06:57:28 PM
My grandma knew we all loved her.I was the closest to her. She loved us kids, We were her life. I know my GC were the love of mine. 2 boys and 1 girl with kids. Real close with the GD from DD, DS #1, is a step son....has a DIL from you know where, they are going thru a divorce after 11 years od alienation, DS #2 has the nightmare manipulator wife who is sweet on the outside, Evil on the inside. Reality is scary. Trying to stay positive now that the shock has passed. Still sad though.


Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 07:13:03 PM
Quote from: Miss Understood on August 26, 2010, 06:57:28 PM
My grandma knew we all loved her.I was the closest to her. She loved us kids, We were her life. I know my GC were the love of mine. 2 boys and 1 girl with kids. Real close with the GD from DD, DS #1, is a step son....has a DIL from you know where, they are going thru a divorce after 11 years od alienation, DS #2 has the nightmare manipulator wife who is sweet on the outside, Evil on the inside. Reality is scary. Trying to stay positive now that the shock has passed. Still sad though.

I think your son is not having a happy life.  I think he's probably very unhappy and is just about to explode from stress.  That's just my take on it. Anything could have set him off that day.  You were handy.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: luise.volta on August 26, 2010, 07:48:09 PM
Oh, I love that! Angel Eyes!  ;) (That's how I look right now, with my left eye always closed...like a wink.)

I was talking about our wanting "things" (life, people, circumstances) to be different. They are how they are, people act the way they do, and we don't get to vote,...we have no choice. I have spent much of my earlier life anguishing over not wanting things to be the way they were. Whether because I saw other solutions, thought I could fix them or couldn't adjust. It helped me a lot to get that they are how they are. Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 08:03:13 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on August 26, 2010, 07:48:09 PM
Oh, I love that! Angel Eyes!  ;) (That's how I look right now, with my left eye always closed...like a wink.)

I was talking about our wanting "things" (life, people, circumstances) to be different. They are how they are, people act the way they do, and we don't get to vote,...we have no choice. I have spent much of my earlier life anguishing over not wanting things to be the way they were. Whether because I saw other solutions, thought I could fix them or couldn't adjust. It helped me a lot to get that they are how they are. Does that make sense?

Yes it does make sense and I thank you for explaining it.  I wish they would change and be different, some of them.  They need to. :(
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: Scoop on August 27, 2010, 06:20:23 AM
Miss Understood said:
Don't you just hate that you have to play games and not be real with yourself and to them. I have a daughter with a child. I do not have to pretend anything....she let's me be me with her and thanks me often for enriching her daughter. The other day I picked her up for a 4 day visit with us. I said to my daughter that her hair and bangs were getting so long. My daughter says, "well, cut them." I said, "NNNNOOOOO. NOT MY JOB, I dare not get in trouble" Her reply, "Mom, don't be silly. she's your GD and I trust you. If I don't like the haircut, it will grow back."
I kissed her and thanked her. Even the Garbage my DS and DIL is making me gunshy and walk on egg shells all around my life. I HATE THAT! I WANT TO BE ME!!!!!

I have to say that I really dislike this expression.  Do you really NOT modify your behaviour depending on where you are and who you're with?  Do you speak the same way ("being you") when you're with a Priest/Rabbi/Boss (whatever) as with your best friend?  Do you act the same way when you're in church, at the opera, in your living room?  I really doubt it.  Well, that's how it is with your DIL.  Of course you speak / act differently with your DD than with your DIL.  Your DD *knows* you and trusts you and has for a LONG time.  Obviously, your DIL doesn't know you the same way and doesn't trust you, based on the difficulties in your relationship.

I think in this case you really have to change your expectations, because there's no way your DIL can live up to the relationship you have with your DD.

Also, you don't know what's going on between your DS and DIL.  You just don't, and it's harmful to your relationship with DIL for you to assume that she said no, just 'because'.  It could be a habitual thing for your DS to double-book the family, and agree to social commitments without consulting her, which just makes her angry.  It could be that the children have something really important already booked for that weekend.  What I'm saying is that you don't KNOW for sure.  And if you assume the worst of your DIL, then it's not HER hurting you, it's YOU hurting yourself.

I understand that you have doubts.  Fine.  Did you ask your DS what plans the kids had?  Maybe it's a sports tournament and you can go and cheer them on for a game.  Maybe it's a recital and you could go watch.  Maybe it's one of the kids best friends birthday party, and you could all go out for supper afterwards in DS's town.  Since it's back-to-school time, maybe you could go visit, take them shopping for an outfit and then have them home in time to start their normal routines and bedtimes for back-to-school.

Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: cremebrulee on August 27, 2010, 06:22:22 AM
Quote from: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 08:03:13 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on August 26, 2010, 07:48:09 PM
Oh, I love that! Angel Eyes!  ;) (That's how I look right now, with my left eye always closed...like a wink.)

I was talking about our wanting "things" (life, people, circumstances) to be different. They are how they are, people act the way they do, and we don't get to vote,...we have no choice. I have spent much of my earlier life anguishing over not wanting things to be the way they were. Whether because I saw other solutions, thought I could fix them or couldn't adjust. It helped me a lot to get that they are how they are. Does that make sense?

Yes it does make sense and I thank you for explaining it.  I wish they would change and be different, some of them.  They need to. :(

In time they do change....maybe not all, but a lot of them do....we did....remember when you were young and newly married?  I can't speak for you, but I was a brat...wanted everything my way....wanted to start my own household with my own rules....didn't want my mother in law hanging around all the time, or telling me what I should or should not do....she did that without realizing, she was treating me like a child and I hated that, and hated the fact that she thought, it was OK to interfer with our lives, and suggest we come there or they come here, or would stop by without calling first....

My suggestion would be this....just to play it safe, never ever ask the kids to do something before you ask they're mother....and when you call, or they call, make it a point to ask for DIL and tell her, hey, your coming into the area, would you guys be able to stop by for dinner or a short visit....I wanted to ask you before telling the kids, in case it doesn't meet with your schedule.

Men will say, yes, we'll come, without checking with wife first, to see if the wife made plans but didn't yet vocalize it to her husband.  This used to happen a lot to me....I would forget to mention to my husband that I wanted to do this or that on the weekend...we both worked all week....then his mother would call, and he'd say, sure, that's good, then get off the phone and say, we're going here or there on Sunday. 

Well, I'd be ticked b/c in my mind, I had that Sunday planned, so, he'd have to call her back and say no, we can't come, wife made plans and I didn't know it....but men forget to communicate things to they're wives....it might not be you as much as you think it is....

I would try wooing her a little...ask her, "would you like to come and visit or come for dinner?"  I'm sure it really upsets her when you say something to the kids without asking her first....and it might even seem to her, like you purposely do that to manipulate the situation, b/c you know she might not be able to say no to the kids.  I'm not suggesting you are, what I'm saying is, that is how she is seeing it...and thinks your doing, so change it.....ask her first....don't ask son....they are a team, and both must mutually agree, and by asking him, your putting him in the middle.  It makes things worse all the way around....I know you had no intention of doing so, but next time, catch yourself...and then call her, specifically to ask her....if she says no, don't take it personal, perhaps they do have other plans...you do have power over this...you have the power to make it better....by remembering, she is his wife, they are a team....and the team has to work together.  You know by now what she is like and you know, that asking him isn't a good idea...so reverse the tactics....like I said, the first few times she may say no, but your going to surprise the heck out of her and it will eventually make her feel good.  Let me tell you, when things get to this point between to ladies, we don't think logically, b/c we have our emotions and heart involved...what happens is, every time something like this happens, we then take it as a rejection, when it might not be that at all...so now this builds on the past....constantly adding kindling to the fire....and the fire builds and builds...and we perceive things not as they really are...b/c we're hurt, and we know there is friction between her and I....so, we tend to blow things way out of proportion. 


Try it, it might work....doesn't hurt to try next time....see if it fits....might make you feel good to...in the meantime, have a great time with your hubby....

Hugs
Creme
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 27, 2010, 07:15:47 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on August 27, 2010, 06:22:22 AM
Quote from: barelythere on August 26, 2010, 08:03:13 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on August 26, 2010, 07:48:09 PM
Oh, I love that! Angel Eyes!  ;) (That's how I look right now, with my left eye always closed...like a wink.)

I was talking about our wanting "things" (life, people, circumstances) to be different. They are how they are, people act the way they do, and we don't get to vote,...we have no choice. I have spent much of my earlier life anguishing over not wanting things to be the way they were. Whether because I saw other solutions, thought I could fix them or couldn't adjust. It helped me a lot to get that they are how they are. Does that make sense?

Yes it does make sense and I thank you for explaining it.  I wish they would change and be different, some of them.  They need to. :(

In time they do change....maybe not all, but a lot of them do....we did....remember when you were young and newly married?  I can't speak for you, but I was a brat...wanted everything my way....wanted to start my own household with my own rules....didn't want my mother in law hanging around all the time, or telling me what I should or should not do....she did that without realizing, she was treating me like a child and I hated that, and hated the fact that she thought, it was OK to interfer with our lives, and suggest we come there or they come here, or would stop by without calling first....

My suggestion would be this....just to play it safe, never ever ask the kids to do something before you ask they're mother....and when you call, or they call, make it a point to ask for DIL and tell her, hey, your coming into the area, would you guys be able to stop by for dinner or a short visit....I wanted to ask you before telling the kids, in case it doesn't meet with your schedule.

Men will say, yes, we'll come, without checking with wife first, to see if the wife made plans but didn't yet vocalize it to her husband.  This used to happen a lot to me....I would forget to mention to my husband that I wanted to do this or that on the weekend...we both worked all week....then his mother would call, and he'd say, sure, that's good, then get off the phone and say, we're going here or there on Sunday. 

Well, I'd be ticked b/c in my mind, I had that Sunday planned, so, he'd have to call her back and say no, we can't come, wife made plans and I didn't know it....but men forget to communicate things to they're wives....it might not be you as much as you think it is....

I would try wooing her a little...ask her, "would you like to come and visit or come for dinner?"  I'm sure it really upsets her when you say something to the kids without asking her first....and it might even seem to her, like you purposely do that to manipulate the situation, b/c you know she might not be able to say no to the kids.  I'm not suggesting you are, what I'm saying is, that is how she is seeing it...and thinks your doing, so change it.....ask her first....don't ask son....they are a team, and both must mutually agree, and by asking him, your putting him in the middle.  It makes things worse all the way around....I know you had no intention of doing so, but next time, catch yourself...and then call her, specifically to ask her....if she says no, don't take it personal, perhaps they do have other plans...you do have power over this...you have the power to make it better....by remembering, she is his wife, they are a team....and the team has to work together.  You know by now what she is like and you know, that asking him isn't a good idea...so reverse the tactics....like I said, the first few times she may say no, but your going to surprise the heck out of her and it will eventually make her feel good.  Let me tell you, when things get to this point between to ladies, we don't think logically, b/c we have our emotions and heart involved...what happens is, every time something like this happens, we then take it as a rejection, when it might not be that at all...so now this builds on the past....constantly adding kindling to the fire....and the fire builds and builds...and we perceive things not as they really are...b/c we're hurt, and we know there is friction between her and I....so, we tend to blow things way out of proportion. 


Try it, it might work....doesn't hurt to try next time....see if it fits....might make you feel good to...in the meantime, have a great time with your hubby....

Hugs
Creme

I wasn't thinking when I asked the little GD if they all could go for ice cream when we go there. It seemed and was-- so innocent to me. I'm so tired of this eggshell walking. It's not worth it to me. This wife of his is a controlling person who says no for no reason. You just don't know her. Any fun of any kind is glared at by her.  One of the kids was climbing our son's back when it was sunburned badly and because our son flinched, his wife said aloud, "you're being rude!! Stop it!" This was in front of the kids. Again, I guess this is from her Mother who thinks God speaks to her exclusively. I'm supposed to be fine about that, though. This is not redeemable to me.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: Pooh on August 27, 2010, 07:33:23 AM
Ok, I have to hold up for barely on this one.  I would never ask my GD first when it came to something big, like an overnight visity, a trip or an all day thing.  Because that should be discussed with the Mother and Father first to make sure they were Ok with it.  But ice cream?  And asking if you can take all of them - Mom and Dad too, sometime while you are there?  That should not be an issue.  If the DIL has a problem with that...then the DIL is just being childish and has no legitimate complaint.

My Mother would look at my boys all the time and say, well Memaw will just have to come snatch you and take you to Chuckie Cheese one day.  Or, hey...sometime next couple of weeks boys, I will come get you and take you to see that new movie.   I never felt like my Mother was being rude and not asking me first.  I knew when it came time, she would call me and say, "Hey, what day would be good?"  If a Grandparent can't generalize with their GC, then that is a problem with the DIL/DH or both.

And I'm sorry, but any DIL/SIL/DD/DH has an issue with a grandparent wanting to spend time with their grandchildren (when the grandparent is being reasonable) has major selfish issues.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 27, 2010, 07:39:29 AM
Quote from: Pooh on August 27, 2010, 07:33:23 AM
Ok, I have to hold up for barely on this one.  I would never ask my GD first when it came to something big, like an overnight visity, a trip or an all day thing.  Because that should be discussed with the Mother and Father first to make sure they were Ok with it.  But ice cream?  And asking if you can take all of them - Mom and Dad too, sometime while you are there?  That should not be an issue.  If the DIL has a problem with that...then the DIL is just being childish and has no legitimate complaint.

My Mother would look at my boys all the time and say, well Memaw will just have to come snatch you and take you to Chuckie Cheese one day.  Or, hey...sometime next couple of weeks boys, I will come get you and take you to see that new movie.   I never felt like my Mother was being rude and not asking me first.  I knew when it came time, she would call me and say, "Hey, what day would be good?"  If a Grandparent can't generalize with their GC, then that is a problem with the DIL/DH or both.

And I'm sorry, but any DIL/SIL/DD/DH has an issue with a grandparent wanting to spend time with their grandchildren (when the grandparent is being reasonable) has major selfish issues.

Thank you, Pooh so much. It means a lot to me. The reason your Mother could do all that was that that was your Mother. When you're the MIL, anything is an insult. 
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: cremebrulee on August 27, 2010, 07:47:47 AM
Quote from: Pooh on August 27, 2010, 07:33:23 AM
Ok, I have to hold up for barely on this one.  I would never ask my GD first when it came to something big, like an overnight visity, a trip or an all day thing.  Because that should be discussed with the Mother and Father first to make sure they were Ok with it.  But ice cream?  And asking if you can take all of them - Mom and Dad too, sometime while you are there?  That should not be an issue.  If the DIL has a problem with that...then the DIL is just being childish and has no legitimate complaint.

My Mother would look at my boys all the time and say, well Memaw will just have to come snatch you and take you to Chuckie Cheese one day.  Or, hey...sometime next couple of weeks boys, I will come get you and take you to see that new movie.   I never felt like my Mother was being rude and not asking me first.  I knew when it came time, she would call me and say, "Hey, what day would be good?"  If a Grandparent can't generalize with their GC, then that is a problem with the DIL/DH or both.

And I'm sorry, but any DIL/SIL/DD/DH has an issue with a grandparent wanting to spend time with their grandchildren (when the grandparent is being reasonable) has major selfish issues.

whoa, this isn't about taking sides with Barelythere against her DIL....I agree, totally with you and she....her DIL is a real problem...what I'm doing is making suggestions to her of how she might win....

I agree, totally with both of you...but nothing will change, unless barelythere makes changes....

yes, her DIL is a really messed up...however, barelythere knows this....so you have two choices....
1.  Do you keep on fighting her and making things worse or
2.  You realize she has real problems, so, you ask her, her permission first....which is a very good way to gain her trust....maybe, maybe not, maybe it won't work, but it's got to be worth a try, right? 

I would try it....a whole lot of positive may come from it, and she's surely got nothing to loose.
someone's got to take initiative, and it isn't going to be her dysfunctional DIL....
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: luise.volta on August 27, 2010, 07:54:23 AM
Amen, Creme!
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: Pooh on August 27, 2010, 08:00:26 AM
I know Creme that you were not taking the DILs side and were offering good suggestions on how to deal with her, but I get so tired of having to make accommodations for selfish people.  You all know my situation with GD and I have not seen her since last December.  So I have to abide by her Mother's wishes and be accommodating.  I have a DIL from hades and in order to have DH in my life, I have to abide by DILs wishes and be accommodating.  I have a SD who is being an absolute spoiled brat and her Mother is contributing to it, so we have to abide by their wishes and be accommodating.

It is so dang tiring.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: cremebrulee on August 27, 2010, 08:11:24 AM
Quote from: Pooh on August 27, 2010, 08:00:26 AM
I know Creme that you were not taking the DILs side and were offering good suggestions on how to deal with her, but I get so tired of having to make accommodations for selfish people.  You all know my situation with GD and I have not seen her since last December.  So I have to abide by her Mother's wishes and be accommodating.  I have a DIL from hades and in order to have DH in my life, I have to abide by DILs wishes and be accommodating.  I have a SD who is being an absolute spoiled brat and her Mother is contributing to it, so we have to abide by their wishes and be accommodating.

It is so dang tiring.

yes, it goes against our grains to be someone we are not....it's difficult, like walking on egg shells all the time....and not easy to do, however, Pooh, you should be commended for being able to do so, cuz, it ain't in any way shape or form easy...

I was afraid, you both took my post the wrong way, and feared barelythere might have taken my post like I was saying she was wrong....and it was like, whoa, whoa, whoa....that's not what I meant.... :D

She is right and very valid for her feelings...however, if she wants change, she's going to have to knuckle down and try a different approach...or have the war going on forever....and she is the one getting beaten and battered, not her DIL....

big hugs
Creme
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: cremebrulee on August 27, 2010, 08:16:16 AM
barelythere,
I know you weren't thinking when you asked your GC to go for ice cream, it was a perfectly normal suggestion...which we have all done....however, your not dealing with a normal DIL...therefore, you've got to know, your not wrong....you didn't do anything wrong....but from now on, if you can, try and coddle her a bit....ask for her, talk to her a little, and then say something like, "listen, FIL and I are going to be at such and such a place, and I thought it would be nice if we all got together....I was wondering if you could come over for an hour or so, and we could all go for ice cream...or if you have longer, that would be nice to, but if you don't, we'll understand....?"  I bet she'd be so shocked, her socks would blow off her feet....then do it again, until it becomes part of who you are, always keep in mind, talk to DIL....
I do know a lot of DIL's think we're asking our sons, b/c we are trying to manipulate a visit out of him...and some of them are hurt by that...as I said, they're young, and very immature....but hopefully they will grow....with time....

barelythere, pooh, come errr....group hug....

hugs
Creme
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: pam1 on August 27, 2010, 08:37:19 AM
Oh wow, this is something I can soooo relate to -- but from the other side lol.  You know, I've never been called rigid in my life, until dealing with MIL.  Work performance reviews, my parents and my extended family, teachers growing have always complimented me on easy goingness and an ability to think on my feet.  I was so shocked to discover my MIL considered me to be rigid lol.

The thing is, *everyone* has ways of organizing their life and for the most part, in laws aren't really privy to the intimate details.  I would never think to go explain to MIL, in explicit detail much less, why I chose to organize my life in a certain way.  It seems to be counterfeit to the reality that I am an adult after all.  My family operated a different way growing up,  kids weren't asked or even made aware of plans.  It just wasn't done, my grandparents always checked with the parents first.  Even when we visited and my parents were there, they'd ask one of the parents first before offering anything to us kids.  It was a type of respect that was handed down to all the parents and it's something I believe works very well in families. 

DH and I do run into this same issue with MIL, quite a bit.  And to be honest, I think DH plays a major role in it as well.  I'm a fairly organized person, I know my schedule and I keep better track of DH's.  This is another reason why the both of us fit together well, something I have a strength in, he has a weakness.  And really, I think in general this is true of men and women, of course there are exceptions :)   So when MIL does ask DH, often times the *both* of them are working off totally inaccurate information. 

DH doesn't consult his calendar and if he says yes when we are all booked, he has to go back and say no.  I find upsetting plans needs to be done only when there is a really good reason, MIL wanting to go get ice cream won't be good enough.  I have days and times booked for really good reasons.  However, it isn't a slight, it isn't a negative, it's simply the consequence of not consulting his calendar.  At least that's how I look at it.  MIL, on the other hand, has displayed time and time again that she doesn't understand why she's being told no.  From my point of view, she isn't really asking.  She's not expecting a no at any point so anything but a yes throws her off and there must be a secret underlying negative reason why she was told no.  And yes, there is the constant attempts to find out, circle around, demand answers.  In all honesty, this dynamic is exhausting.  I wish DH and MIL would figure out a way to let things be, some things just happen in life and you can't always get what you want.  I'm tired of being both their excuses and being the one deemed "rigid" because I have my own life and schedule.

IOW, I do feel like MIL is "rigid" in her way of being that she won't recognize that others can and will do something a different way and it's not a slam against her.  I feel that she is ultra sensitive and these are the types of issues that make relationships hard.  I don't feel the need to describe in detail to her why I'm busy, why DH had to say no, why he said yes in the first place.  It all is what it is and frankly, it's just life.  It happens in my family too but the difference is we all know it happens and no one is looking for a reason to be offended.  It just is.

Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: pam1 on August 27, 2010, 08:47:57 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on August 27, 2010, 08:16:16 AM
barelythere,
I know you weren't thinking when you asked your GC to go for ice cream, it was a perfectly normal suggestion...which we have all done....however, your not dealing with a normal DIL...therefore, you've got to know, your not wrong....you didn't do anything wrong....but from now on, if you can, try and coddle her a bit....ask for her, talk to her a little, and then say something like, "listen, FIL and I are going to be at such and such a place, and I thought it would be nice if we all got together....I was wondering if you could come over for an hour or so, and we could all go for ice cream...or if you have longer, that would be nice to, but if you don't, we'll understand....?"  I bet she'd be so shocked, her socks would blow off her feet....then do it again, until it becomes part of who you are, always keep in mind, talk to DIL....
I do know a lot of DIL's think we're asking our sons, b/c we are trying to manipulate a visit out of him...and some of them are hurt by that...as I said, they're young, and very immature....but hopefully they will grow....with time....

barelythere, pooh, come errr....group hug....

hugs
Creme

See, I don't think I'm not right and I would find great offense to the idea that I'm being coddled when it's (in my opinion) only right that you ask the parents before asking the kid something.

I have a child from a previous relationship and this is something her father does, quite frequently. (and MIL does it too to an extent, not as bad as my Ex though) And I'm the one who deals with the fall out when it doesn't work quite his way.

He does it from minor things like ice cream to big things like Disney World.  He'll get on the phone with DD and say he made plans to go to Disney and he's going to take her and her siblings from his current marriage.  DD will get off the phone and tell me.  Um, ok?  I call Ex back and he says yeah, he's booked the rooms this week in July, can I get DD down there?  I can't take off work then.  Can ex come get her?  No, no he can't.  Then we have DD left in the dust *knowing* she can't go to Disney while her father and siblings go.  I think it's a pretty nasty move if you ask me.

If you look at it objectively, why would you ask the child?  The child can't drive themself where they need to be, they can't commit to a certain date and/or time and they can't just say yeah, ok pick me up at 6, grandma.  The child doesn't have that sort of power b/c they are the child.  And, if the child can't go, you've basically set them up to be disappointed and the parent is the one going home with a disappointed child over a situation the parent couldn't control in the first place.

I do think it's a sign of respect to go to the parent, even over minor things, that's what the parent is for.  It seems like if the answer is anything but yes, the grandparent is putting the parent and grandchild in a negative situation b/c the grandparent can't or won't ask the parent, first.  It seems like a heavy price for the parent and grandchild to pay for a simple modification the grandparent can make to smooth waters.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: cremebrulee on August 27, 2010, 08:48:00 AM
Quote from: pam1 on August 27, 2010, 08:37:19 AM
Oh wow, this is something I can soooo relate to -- but from the other side lol.  You know, I've never been called rigid in my life, until dealing with MIL.  Work performance reviews, my parents and my extended family, teachers growing have always complimented me on easy goingness and an ability to think on my feet.  I was so shocked to discover my MIL considered me to be rigid lol.

The thing is, *everyone* has ways of organizing their life and for the most part, in laws aren't really privy to the intimate details.  I would never think to go explain to MIL, in explicit detail much less, why I chose to organize my life in a certain way.  It seems to be counterfeit to the reality that I am an adult after all.  My family operated a different way growing up,  kids weren't asked or even made aware of plans.  It just wasn't done, my grandparents always checked with the parents first.  Even when we visited and my parents were there, they'd ask one of the parents first before offering anything to us kids.  It was a type of respect that was handed down to all the parents and it's something I believe works very well in families. 

DH and I do run into this same issue with MIL, quite a bit.  And to be honest, I think DH plays a major role in it as well.  I'm a fairly organized person, I know my schedule and I keep better track of DH's.  This is another reason why the both of us fit together well, something I have a strength in, he has a weakness.  And really, I think in general this is true of men and women, of course there are exceptions :)   So when MIL does ask DH, often times the *both* of them are working off totally inaccurate information. 

DH doesn't consult his calendar and if he says yes when we are all booked, he has to go back and say no.  I find upsetting plans needs to be done only when there is a really good reason, MIL wanting to go get ice cream won't be good enough.  I have days and times booked for really good reasons.  However, it isn't a slight, it isn't a negative, it's simply the consequence of not consulting his calendar.  At least that's how I look at it.  MIL, on the other hand, has displayed time and time again that she doesn't understand why she's being told no.  From my point of view, she isn't really asking.  She's not expecting a no at any point so anything but a yes throws her off and there must be a secret underlying negative reason why she was told no.  And yes, there is the constant attempts to find out, circle around, demand answers.  In all honesty, this dynamic is exhausting.  I wish DH and MIL would figure out a way to let things be, some things just happen in life and you can't always get what you want.  I'm tired of being both their excuses and being the one deemed "rigid" because I have my own life and schedule.

IOW, I do feel like MIL is "rigid" in her way of being that she won't recognize that others can and will do something a different way and it's not a slam against her.  I feel that she is ultra sensitive and these are the types of issues that make relationships hard.  I don't feel the need to describe in detail to her why I'm busy, why DH had to say no, why he said yes in the first place.  It all is what it is and frankly, it's just life.  It happens in my family too but the difference is we all know it happens and no one is looking for a reason to be offended.  It just is.

A great way of explaining it....very well done Pam1....and no your shouldn't have to explain, and unfortunately there are some MIL's who are so sensitive and take no as a personal attack/rejection, and it must be all DIL's fault....but it's not and most of the time it is perfectly normal....and I'd be willing to bet, when she says no to someone, she feels like she has to explain all about why she said no....right? 

however, you do understand, that there are some DIL's out there who are not like you, but very very difficult to get along with....every situation is different.

Since you know MIL is like this Pam...why don't you once in a while try, to explain to her....she must have been insecure all her life and needs reassurance....why don't you try telling her, what you just wrote here....talk to her, and hopefully she will listen....but if she doesn't keep reassuring her...and maybe someday she will?

In the meantime, thanks for posting this...in the way that you did....I'm sure, it will help....

I really liked the way you worded it and enjoyed reading you....
thank you
Creme
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: pam1 on August 27, 2010, 09:07:53 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on August 27, 2010, 08:48:00 AM
Quote from: pam1 on August 27, 2010, 08:37:19 AM
Oh wow, this is something I can soooo relate to -- but from the other side lol.  You know, I've never been called rigid in my life, until dealing with MIL.  Work performance reviews, my parents and my extended family, teachers growing have always complimented me on easy goingness and an ability to think on my feet.  I was so shocked to discover my MIL considered me to be rigid lol.

The thing is, *everyone* has ways of organizing their life and for the most part, in laws aren't really privy to the intimate details.  I would never think to go explain to MIL, in explicit detail much less, why I chose to organize my life in a certain way.  It seems to be counterfeit to the reality that I am an adult after all.  My family operated a different way growing up,  kids weren't asked or even made aware of plans.  It just wasn't done, my grandparents always checked with the parents first.  Even when we visited and my parents were there, they'd ask one of the parents first before offering anything to us kids.  It was a type of respect that was handed down to all the parents and it's something I believe works very well in families. 

DH and I do run into this same issue with MIL, quite a bit.  And to be honest, I think DH plays a major role in it as well.  I'm a fairly organized person, I know my schedule and I keep better track of DH's.  This is another reason why the both of us fit together well, something I have a strength in, he has a weakness.  And really, I think in general this is true of men and women, of course there are exceptions :)   So when MIL does ask DH, often times the *both* of them are working off totally inaccurate information. 

DH doesn't consult his calendar and if he says yes when we are all booked, he has to go back and say no.  I find upsetting plans needs to be done only when there is a really good reason, MIL wanting to go get ice cream won't be good enough.  I have days and times booked for really good reasons.  However, it isn't a slight, it isn't a negative, it's simply the consequence of not consulting his calendar.  At least that's how I look at it.  MIL, on the other hand, has displayed time and time again that she doesn't understand why she's being told no.  From my point of view, she isn't really asking.  She's not expecting a no at any point so anything but a yes throws her off and there must be a secret underlying negative reason why she was told no.  And yes, there is the constant attempts to find out, circle around, demand answers.  In all honesty, this dynamic is exhausting.  I wish DH and MIL would figure out a way to let things be, some things just happen in life and you can't always get what you want.  I'm tired of being both their excuses and being the one deemed "rigid" because I have my own life and schedule.

IOW, I do feel like MIL is "rigid" in her way of being that she won't recognize that others can and will do something a different way and it's not a slam against her.  I feel that she is ultra sensitive and these are the types of issues that make relationships hard.  I don't feel the need to describe in detail to her why I'm busy, why DH had to say no, why he said yes in the first place.  It all is what it is and frankly, it's just life.  It happens in my family too but the difference is we all know it happens and no one is looking for a reason to be offended.  It just is.

A great way of explaining it....very well done Pam1....and no your shouldn't have to explain, and unfortunately there are some MIL's who are so sensitive and take no as a personal attack/rejection, and it must be all DIL's fault....but it's not and most of the time it is perfectly normal....and I'd be willing to bet, when she says no to someone, she feels like she has to explain all about why she said no....right? 

however, you do understand, that there are some DIL's out there who are not like you, but very very difficult to get along with....every situation is different.

Since you know MIL is like this Pam...why don't you once in a while try, to explain to her....she must have been insecure all her life and needs reassurance....why don't you try telling her, what you just wrote here....talk to her, and hopefully she will listen....but if she doesn't keep reassuring her...and maybe someday she will?

In the meantime, thanks for posting this...in the way that you did....I'm sure, it will help....

I really liked the way you worded it and enjoyed reading you....
thank you
Creme

Thanks, Creme!  Oh I know there are DIL's out there that are toxic and hard to deal with, I probably work with some ;)  lol.  However, I do think this is a very valid issue in painful or otherwise toxic relationships.  I think people have a valid reason why they don't like their kids being asked about plans and it's something worth paying attention to if you do find it to be a problem.  A lot of the time I think problem relationships stem from this sort of attitude, when both parties aren't willing to take a look at the other side.  And in this particular situation, I do think the DIL's side is pretty compelling.  Not that her whole case is compelling lol but this issue in particular.  And I do think if you "give" you are more likely to "get."  So if the goal is to get more time with the grandkids and you know the DIL will say no if you directly ask the grandkids, the win situation would be to stop asking the grandkid.

I have tried talking to MIL, numerous occasions.  I don't turn into a big deal "we must get this settled right now conversations" though.  When DH and I first started running into this problem I always just said casually to MIL, "hey, you know DH doesn't always know what's going on, sometimes it's better if you just ask me first, and if you do ask DH and he says yes, then no...it's because he doesn't look at the calendar and it's something we really can't cancel."

She doesn't accept it and she just kinda shrugs off what I say, she doesn't say anything in return, she just changes the subject.  For the most part, MIL will refuse to talk to me about anything that bothers her, however she will act out and that's where all our issues come into play.

And well, I think my MIL goes a little farther down the road.  She just doesn't like "no" at all.  It doesn't matter if DH does happen to remember our schedule and knows we are booked and tells her "no" right away.  She really, truly doesn't like it and behaves as if I (not we, DH isn't the target of this particular issue) did it just to upset her.  And then she attempts to undermine, she calls DH constantly about this plan, wants to know why in explicit detail, cries etc. 

One time in particular stands out in my mind.  MIL wanted family portraits, she arranged and booked a day with a photographer and consulted us after she made all the plans.  And she wanted a big family bbq after the shoot.  Apparently, she spoke to her daughters and made sure they were ok with the date and time, but not us.  Anyway, we already had plans for the day with out of town friends that were coming to visit.  I felt it was inappropriate to cancel plans that we had for 6 months with our visitors but DH didn't want to fight MIL anymore.  So the deal was, we'd go to the shoot for 2 hours max and then we had to go, no time for the bbq.  DH told MIL upfront, he was clear as could be....and at this point, you'd think any person would be happy that a grown couple would have compromised this much.  MIL argued that our friends could come (they absolutely didn't want to spend one of their precious days visiting doing this lol,) how dare we do this to her after all the money she spent, DH's sisters went along with her, why couldn't we?  Why can't Pam1 just go with the flow?

Etc, it was horrible.  Anyway, the day comes we go to the shoot and we've got it ALL settled we are leaving in 2 hours.  (and you know, I have to wonder when MIL does this, what person in their right mind would want to be around her after all these strong arm tactics, MIL and her daughters are happy at the expense of their son and his wife....doesn't seem quite right here)  Well, next thing you know MIL is whispering to my DD that she has some gifts for her that are very special and doesn't DD want to go open them in MIL's house? 

The woman didn't stop and wouldn't look at this from any others point of view.  Going to talk to my child and making plans with her to get us at her dang bbq.  Mind blowing.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: cremebrulee on August 27, 2010, 09:17:51 AM
Pam1
She sounds like Jamie Lee Curtis in the movie Monster in Law....seriously....

this kind of behavior really really upsets me, next time I wouldn't compromise at all, and if she says something like she said before, how dare you after all the money I speant, and I would come right back at her if I were her son and say, "Mom, how dare you tell everyone else about it except us and just spring it on us after we made plans with our friends...." and not go....reverse the situation and if she really wants you there, she will eventually maybe get it?  Tell your husband, he can't knuckle under....tough love, yanno...

You sound like a very understanding person....you certainly have every reason to fight her and yet, not once have you sounded vindictive or unfair....she is only hurting herself....yeah, can you imagine living with someone like that....ewwwww, her poor husband....

That is the first thing I always think of....can you just imagine living day in and day out with someone like that....she has probably stripped her husband of his entire identity...it's her way....without any regard for him or what he wants to do...sheesh? 

Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 27, 2010, 09:22:54 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on August 27, 2010, 07:47:47 AM
Quote from: Pooh on August 27, 2010, 07:33:23 AM
Ok, I have to hold up for barely on this one.  I would never ask my GD first when it came to something big, like an overnight visity, a trip or an all day thing.  Because that should be discussed with the Mother and Father first to make sure they were Ok with it.  But ice cream?  And asking if you can take all of them - Mom and Dad too, sometime while you are there?  That should not be an issue.  If the DIL has a problem with that...then the DIL is just being childish and has no legitimate complaint.

My Mother would look at my boys all the time and say, well Memaw will just have to come snatch you and take you to Chuckie Cheese one day.  Or, hey...sometime next couple of weeks boys, I will come get you and take you to see that new movie.   I never felt like my Mother was being rude and not asking me first.  I knew when it came time, she would call me and say, "Hey, what day would be good?"  If a Grandparent can't generalize with their GC, then that is a problem with the DIL/DH or both.

And I'm sorry, but any DIL/SIL/DD/DH has an issue with a grandparent wanting to spend time with their grandchildren (when the grandparent is being reasonable) has major selfish issues.

whoa, this isn't about taking sides with Barelythere against her DIL....I agree, totally with you and she....her DIL is a real problem...what I'm doing is making suggestions to her of how she might win....

I agree, totally with both of you...but nothing will change, unless barelythere makes changes....

yes, her DIL is a really messed up...however, barelythere knows this....so you have two choices....
1.  Do you keep on fighting her and making things worse or
2.  You realize she has real problems, so, you ask her, her permission first....which is a very good way to gain her trust....maybe, maybe not, maybe it won't work, but it's got to be worth a try, right? 

I would try it....a whole lot of positive may come from it, and she's surely got nothing to loose.
someone's got to take initiative, and it isn't going to be her dysfunctional DIL....

Great Big Double Bed Sheeets! I  know she has problems. God speaks directly to her Mother, for Heaven Sake. This is not true, though. . Everyone knows He speaks to me. (sniff)
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: pam1 on August 27, 2010, 09:25:52 AM
You know, Creme, that's the thing.  MIL will not talk to me, often times I hear about it from DH after the fact.  I think I'm doing a good thing by compromising and I'll find out later that I was being slammed.  And DH didn't (and still by the time he told me) recognize it for what it was.

I feel like DH and I are put between a rock and a hard place with this particular issue.  He gets to "hear" it all and bears the brunt of MIL's emotions.  And I get the blame.  It truly turned into a marital issue after a while and I figured out what was going on.  It took me a long time to get to the bottom of it.  In my family, if someone invites and the other says no, we've got plans....that's all there is to it.  It would never occur to me that it would be an issue.

Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: cremebrulee on August 27, 2010, 09:43:57 AM
Quote from: pam1 on August 27, 2010, 09:25:52 AM
You know, Creme, that's the thing.  MIL will not talk to me, often times I hear about it from DH after the fact.  I think I'm doing a good thing by compromising and I'll find out later that I was being slammed.  And DH didn't (and still by the time he told me) recognize it for what it was.

I feel like DH and I are put between a rock and a hard place with this particular issue.  He gets to "hear" it all and bears the brunt of MIL's emotions.  And I get the blame.  It truly turned into a marital issue after a while and I figured out what was going on.  It took me a long time to get to the bottom of it.  In my family, if someone invites and the other says no, we've got plans....that's all there is to it.  It would never occur to me that it would be an issue.

darlin, your not getting the blame, hubby knows what is going on....he is just trying so hard to make both of you happy....he needs to take the blinders off...oft times, it is difficult for any child to view the mistakes of they're parents....however, you and he need to sit down and communicate your feelings to each other about this...he married you, you are his first priority....and he needs to dot his i's and cross his t's when it comes to his mother.  It's all about a lack of communication, and if you two must go to counciling....then so be it, he must understand, you have feelings to....and it is so important that he connect the dots when it comes to planning things with her.

also, consider, to, that he feels so caught in the middle, if he tries to talk to you about her, do you listen, or do you take it as if he is telling you, you are wrong?  He is not saying your wrong...he's trying to explain to you his side, and his perspectives and feelings...but he is not saying, your wrong for yours....does that make sense? 

That is where my son was at with my DIL and me....if he tried making sense to either one of us about the other, both she and I took it as if he was siding with the other....he wasn't....he was trying to tell us both that we were wrong in the way we felt....not that we were wrong for our feelings...I mean, I was so bent out of shape, I actually thought my DIL was abusive, and narcissistic....it was horrible....b/c one little thing led to another....

for instance, once, when I was there, she made an entire breakfast....now she knows I can't usually eat breakfast, son told her that...mid day to lunch time I can....but not first thing in the morning...I get sick....but she wanted to make something nice for me....so she went to all that trouble...I wouldn't eat...and that hurt her terrible...she viewed it as me rejecting her, not liking her, and I viewed it as her knowing full well I don't eat breakfast, so she did that purposely to make me sick...
do you see how things get blown way beyond the galaxies?  I mean, we both were bound and determined that we hated each other and we didn't...we just wanted to be liked.....simple fact....and this went on for 12 long and haretbreaking years....and I wouldn't listen...my son tried to talk to both of us, endlessly....and he was just as upset as we were....

I don't know if my story sheds some new perspective on the why's of why your hubby feels the way he does...but just for the record...my girlfriend used to say...."you son is is hurting just as much as you are, believe me."  And so was my DIL, and so was I, but she and I both were just way to proud to admit we were wrong about each other...and everytime we got together, boom, no matter how kind we'd be to each other, that one negative thing that happened, was blown way out of poportion....it's all about perspectives, and how we see things....

so, hang in there, things will get better with time....you have a good head on your shoulders, and it will work out....maybe not with her, but there will come a day, when you'll not care so much anymore...and realize, she is the way she is, and nothing will change her...you don't have to be her doormat....there are way other things in life so much more important....then her....



Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: cremebrulee on August 27, 2010, 09:58:20 AM
pam1

QuoteSee, I don't think I'm not right and I would find great offense to the idea that I'm being coddled when it's (in my opinion) only right that you ask the parents before asking the kid something.
I agree, b/c you feel that way....and I know you feel that way, so your feelings as your mil, would be important to me, I would want to coddle you...to make you happy....to do what you expected....does that make sense....asking the kids if they want to go for ice cream with grandpa and grandma is a little thing....would take only about an hour, hour and a half....but asking the kids to come over night, without first talking to you, would be a huge thing....besides, when I got to the cabin, which was close to you, I'd give you a call and ask if you were busy, could we take the kids for ice cream for about an hour, and would you like to come along?

Quoteto big things like Disney World.  He'll get on the phone with DD and say he made plans to go to Disney and he's going to take her and her siblings from his current marriage.  DD will get off the phone and tell me.  Um, ok?  I call Ex back and he says yeah, he's booked the rooms this week in July, can I get DD down there?  I can't take off work then.  Can ex come get her?  No, no he can't.  Then we have DD left in the dust *knowing* she can't go to Disney while her father and siblings go.  I think it's a pretty nasty move if you ask me.

I think it's inexcusable and unacceptable, he's not hurting you, he is hurting her....how dare he?  Sheesh, I wish parents would grow up...I'm with my friend at work here who says, you should have to take a test before you become a parent...(we say that when we hear stories like this, or worse)  however, your husband, is a child....and so wrong....

QuoteI do think it's a sign of respect to go to the parent, even over minor things, that's what the parent is for.

I do to, however, going for ice cream isn't a biggy, and I don't think she told the kids when, and kids don't really have a concept of time....so, I believe it was more hypthetical...but can understand your feelings on it....your not wrong for feeling the way you do, and if it were my GD I would ask, b/c I want to do what is right by my DIL...however, I can also see the point of views of others here for not feeling it is so serious....I know my girlfriends grand kids get on the phone with her, and they ask her to come up and take them for this or that....right in front of they're mothers....they're mother's don't care...at this point, all they're glad for is the break from the kids...matter of fact, they are so much the opposite, adn your not going to believe this, but they thought it would be nice to dump all they're kids....(18) all together, at they're home for mother's day.  She and I laughed saying...."now wouldn't that be a great mother's day gift?"  Yeah right?

I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer here....it depends on the individuals involved...and maybe that is what we should all ask ourselves....
how well do we know our DIL's/Mil's?  We should try and find out what they think about these things, and maybe that is how we could address it....rather then fight it?  I dunno...
the answer is in your hearts...and who here wrote today, "the more you give, the more you get"?  It's so hard, b/c you are dealing with two totally opposite individuals here fighting over the same man....sounds silly but it's true....it's very true....like a love triangle...and it's sad....someone has to give, and in my case, I'd rather have peace then be right...to me, it wasn't even about winning...I just wanted peace....and when I started to listen, I got a whole lot more....I listened to her, and felt compassion, embarrassement....shame, guilt, and love....and now, I'm so glad I did...it was worth it....and I had nothing more to loose.



Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: Pen on August 27, 2010, 11:05:56 AM
Perhaps if the ILs knew they were scheduled into the social calendar too, the way a lot of DIL's FOOs are, there would be less anxiety all around. It's hard to share, but we expect kindergartners to do it and I think as adults we can figure this out :)

As both a DIL & a MIL, I know from experience that both sides need to feel validated and loved. After that it takes consideration and compromise. But, if one or both parties is selfish, uncaring or unyielding, it won't work and the other party is bound to be hurt, confused, or  upset. For some of us our hurt becomes overwhelming and we're tired of always being the ones who give in.

Rigid people don't know how to "pick their battles." Sometimes it's best to give in on the little stuff so you can give more credence to the big issues. Sometimes it's great to be seen as the "yes" guy!

I'm assuming we DILs and MILs here are caring and desiring compromise, otherwise we're just here to vent or tangle which isn't productive.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: Pooh on August 27, 2010, 11:12:20 AM
 I just find it amazing that a parent can always make time for their kids, but some kids can't find time for a parent every once in a while.  Boggles my mind.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: pam1 on August 27, 2010, 11:37:11 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on August 27, 2010, 09:58:20 AM
pam1

QuoteSee, I don't think I'm not right and I would find great offense to the idea that I'm being coddled when it's (in my opinion) only right that you ask the parents before asking the kid something.
I agree, b/c you feel that way....and I know you feel that way, so your feelings as your mil, would be important to me, I would want to coddle you...to make you happy....to do what you expected....does that make sense....asking the kids if they want to go for ice cream with grandpa and grandma is a little thing....would take only about an hour, hour and a half....but asking the kids to come over night, without first talking to you, would be a huge thing....besides, when I got to the cabin, which was close to you, I'd give you a call and ask if you were busy, could we take the kids for ice cream for about an hour, and would you like to come along?

Quoteto big things like Disney World.  He'll get on the phone with DD and say he made plans to go to Disney and he's going to take her and her siblings from his current marriage.  DD will get off the phone and tell me.  Um, ok?  I call Ex back and he says yeah, he's booked the rooms this week in July, can I get DD down there?  I can't take off work then.  Can ex come get her?  No, no he can't.  Then we have DD left in the dust *knowing* she can't go to Disney while her father and siblings go.  I think it's a pretty nasty move if you ask me.

I think it's inexcusable and unacceptable, he's not hurting you, he is hurting her....how dare he?  Sheesh, I wish parents would grow up...I'm with my friend at work here who says, you should have to take a test before you become a parent...(we say that when we hear stories like this, or worse)  however, your husband, is a child....and so wrong....

QuoteI do think it's a sign of respect to go to the parent, even over minor things, that's what the parent is for.

I do to, however, going for ice cream isn't a biggy, and I don't think she told the kids when, and kids don't really have a concept of time....so, I believe it was more hypthetical...but can understand your feelings on it....your not wrong for feeling the way you do, and if it were my GD I would ask, b/c I want to do what is right by my DIL...however, I can also see the point of views of others here for not feeling it is so serious....I know my girlfriends grand kids get on the phone with her, and they ask her to come up and take them for this or that....right in front of they're mothers....they're mother's don't care...at this point, all they're glad for is the break from the kids...matter of fact, they are so much the opposite, adn your not going to believe this, but they thought it would be nice to dump all they're kids....(18) all together, at they're home for mother's day.  She and I laughed saying...."now wouldn't that be a great mother's day gift?"  Yeah right?

I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer here....it depends on the individuals involved...and maybe that is what we should all ask ourselves....
how well do we know our DIL's/Mil's?  We should try and find out what they think about these things, and maybe that is how we could address it....rather then fight it?  I dunno...
the answer is in your hearts...and who here wrote today, "the more you give, the more you get"?  It's so hard, b/c you are dealing with two totally opposite individuals here fighting over the same man....sounds silly but it's true....it's very true....like a love triangle...and it's sad....someone has to give, and in my case, I'd rather have peace then be right...to me, it wasn't even about winning...I just wanted peace....and when I started to listen, I got a whole lot more....I listened to her, and felt compassion, embarrassement....shame, guilt, and love....and now, I'm so glad I did...it was worth it....and I had nothing more to loose.

lol, I can agree to disagree, I'll just say that upfront :)

I personally don't have a spare hour most days and most of my working friends with children don't either.  And, said with respect :), this is the kind of attitude that is hard to reason with my MIL.  We really don't have a whole lot of time and it's like I said, exhausting, to get that across.  I'm not rigid or some kind of schedule nazi, we just have to get things done,  keep up with the household chores,  honor our work and other commitments, take care of our health and spend one on one time within the immediate family, we also have extended family on *both* sides that we want to keep up relationships, and our friends who we have sorely neglected for the most part, school commitments and after school sports and clubs, and frankly, MIL sees us more than anyone else. 

As a side note, we did have the counselor suggest we pencil in good chunks of free time in our calendar for every member of our household.

I think it's great if other people's kids and grandkids have that type of relationship and they are all happy with how it's working and at the end of the day that's the most important part, right?  :)  But what happens when it just won't work? Is it better to complain that things aren't going your way (and we know your way is very, very, very subjective) or try to take a look at what you can do to change to acheive the ultimate goal?

Another view, the women in my family (stepmom, aunts, grandmothers) would ALL object heavily to that type of relationship.  That is not the culture of my family, as my stepmom will say, she "doesn't want to be a mother again, it's her free time now" when my brother tries to get her to babysit just a little too much for her liking.  If anyone approached stepmom with the expectation of that type of relationship with her -- well, it probably wouldn't work out so well for them.  She's not having it and you know, I kinda think it's her right to say "i am not interested in that type of relationship" and for the onus to the receiver to either change their expectations or let stepmom off the hook from their expectations.

I do get your point that things like the ice cream are minor things, they are.  But the logic is since they are so minor, then asking the child should be relatively easy to stop doing, right?
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: Pooh on August 27, 2010, 11:59:32 AM
Pam, that is what I love about this forum.  We all agree to disagree but yet love to hear each other's prospectives.  And I do hear you.  As a Mother, I worked full-time, ran two different aged boys to multiple sports for 15 years, coached various sports for 12 years, had volunteer work, charities, friends, classes, housework, cooking, laundry....the list goes on and on, just like you do.  But I made sure that both sets of grandparents had time with the kids.  Because that was important to me for both the grandparents and the kids.  There were times I had to tell my MIL and my Mom no because we were so busy.  But I always made sure for every few no's, I balanced that with a yes, so they knew that we felt they were important.  I used to run 5 different places on Christmas, just so everyone could have GC/DIL/DH time on that holiday.  I remember falling exhausted into bed that night and thinking, whew!

I guess that's why I have such a hard time now with thinking my DIL and DH can't give up a two hour dinner every couple of months so that we can maintain a relationship.  I worked so hard to maintain those relationships while they were growing up, exhausting as it was, because it was important for everyone.   I am learning, thru this forum, that those are my expections, and I have to let them go because my DIL is a different person, and doesn't hold those same beliefs, but it doesn't mean I have to like it! Lol.

You sound like a great Mom and not a DIL like some of us have, just like us MILs recognize there are some difficult MILs out there too that can be so intrusive.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: luise.volta on August 27, 2010, 12:35:14 PM
Lopsided love...out of balance. It seems that "give and take" means "I give and you take." Of course it gets tiresome. It is unfair, unjust, unreasonable and unrelenting. Lotsa "uns." My heart goes out to everyone here that is in that position. I was there for along time and got kicked in the teeth for my efforts. And yet we persevere and we support each other and when we have to, we let go. Strong Women!

Sending love...
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: Pooh on August 27, 2010, 12:41:28 PM
Strong Women indeed, headed by one of the wisest and strongest around!  (Pssst, that's you Luise).

Funny you said that.  I had lunch with my DH and we got tickled at each other.  I told him that I had come to a realization that we had surrounded ourselves with selfish people.  That between my OD and his daughter, it was no wonder we were so tired all the time.  I told him that from here on out, we were only going to surround ourselves with "givers", no more "takers".

He just looks at me and starts laughing.  I asked him what was so funny and he said, "Great.  We will be standing outside of the Olive Garden for hours now going....No...after you....No....after you....No...after you.  I'll never get to eat."

God bless his loving heart!
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: luise.volta on August 27, 2010, 01:03:55 PM
Loved that man!!!  8) ;)
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: barelythere on August 27, 2010, 01:57:47 PM
Quote from: Pen on August 27, 2010, 11:05:56 AM
Perhaps if the ILs knew they were scheduled into the social calendar too, the way a lot of DIL's FOOs are, there would be less anxiety all around. It's hard to share, but we expect kindergartners to do it and I think as adults we can figure this out :)

As both a DIL & a MIL, I know from experience that both sides need to feel validated and loved. After that it takes consideration and compromise. But, if one or both parties is selfish, uncaring or unyielding, it won't work and the other party is bound to be hurt, confused, or  upset. For some of us our hurt becomes overwhelming and we're tired of always being the ones who give in.

Rigid people don't know how to "pick their battles." Sometimes it's best to give in on the little stuff so you can give more credence to the big issues. Sometimes it's great to be seen as the "yes" guy!

I'm assuming we DILs and MILs here are caring and desiring compromise, otherwise we're just here to vent or tangle which isn't productive.

This DIL of ours cannot get off the list she makes for the week, month, year. No varying. She's in another city so other people don't know that about her yet but I have never seen anyone so rigid. OMG, this is deadly serious. Nothing out of the ordinary, ever.  Whatever, it's worn me out.
Title: Re: Rigid people
Post by: luise.volta on August 27, 2010, 04:21:56 PM
It's so hard to understand what works for others when it doesn't work for us.

Schedules are great if we are adaptable but as an Art Form? I don't think so! And when the pendulum swings the other way, we are at the effect of people who "hang loose" to the degree that they are totally irresponsible and we can't count on anything.

I wonder sometimes why somewhere in the middle isn't more popular? It seems so simple...