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OK.  New problem.  My cousin calls from across the country.  She wants to come visit for a week - STARTING TOMORROW!

I'm taking care of everyone here and working.  My parents are elderly.  My son has problems.  The only healthy people in the house are my daughter and I.  My mother got the call - that they were leaving and would be here tomorrow.  I'm having a heart attack, my father is walking in circles, what can I do here?  We have nowhere to put them!  And, this is the clincher - they're broke! Or so my mother says.

Would I be rude to suggest they stay at a hotel nearby that is within walking distance of the "Metro station?"  They want to see the monument, capital, etc...

There's just no way we can "put them up."  This is a long story with this one - too long to tell...

Let Luise answer......I know you should tell them to stay in a hotel nearby.  I just can't bring myself to say it. 

If they're broke, how can they visit the monuments?  Are they free to visit? 

Just tell them that the parents aren't well and you are working and there's nowhere to put them.  What is wrong with that?

Thanks Chickie!  I know what the "right" answer is, but my mother already told her to come.  And, you're right - there is nowhere her to put them.  There's a story attached to them.  My father's sister died and she was rich - LLLLLOOOOOOAAAAADDDDDDEEEEEDDDD!  They came an took all her money.  Had her sign papers giving them power of attorney.  Well, the money is gone spent.  Guess who's next.  My father is 91 years old.  We havent seen her in years - at least 20.  I can't help but think that (now that their broke after spending millions) there is a reason for the visit.  I think they're sniffing to see if the money smell is here too!  And to be honest with you she's not going to drive them (my parents) into an early grave like she did my aunt.  It aint happening.  I know realistically it's not early, but you know what I mean - I hope.

I don't know what to do.  I just paid off a credit card from doing real estate.  I think I'll use that and put them in a hotel.  I'm thinking.  This is one of those women who is "always" in your face too - draining...  She'll kill someone! 

Borrow a tent and a porta potty and put them up in the back yard....and get out the trusty length of lumber to keep them there.  Beggers can't be choosers now can they?

OK, ok, I have got to get a grip tonight.  That little left shoulder-riding devil is just chatting way to much.   You ladies have a good-night.

Coco,i was going to tell you i agreed with Chickie.Luise would probably give you the best advice.

But now i think Orly has just told you the best thing you can do!!!

OMG!  I love that idea!  I'm sitting her worried about what this pirahna is coming for, and a tent would do it!  I don't think I could talk my mother into that though.  I think I'm paying for a hotel for a week! 

Orly!  I wish you were here right now!  I'm so worried about what she's up to!  All this money she got from my aunt is spent!  Gone. 

I could only wish a 2x4 would take care of this.  I don't think it will...

Mominwaiting, Chickie.  Thanks.  I think I really need Luise's advice right now.  I'm worried...

Quote from: Orly on March 12, 2010, 05:45:07 PM
OK, ok, I have got to get a grip tonight.  That little left shoulder-riding devil is just chatting way to much.   You ladies have a good-night.

Orly, I have to tell you that your "left shoulder-riding devil" has a nice tone to his voice.  He's kinda cute too!   

Thank you for being her for me... :'(

Coco ,try not to worry,i know thats not easy.but i'm sure Luise will give you the best advice.

Thank you. I know you're right.  You know how you just get that "panic" feeling?  I'm trying to get over it.  The one I feel if I think someone's coming to kill my parents?  That one.  I know it's ridiculous, but it's there.  Thank you for understanding that.

I know Coco,and right now you dont need any more stress.

Thank you Mominwaiting.

Quote from: cocobars on March 12, 2010, 05:49:24 PM

Quote from: Orly on March 12, 2010, 05:45:07 PM
OK, ok, I have got to get a grip tonight.  That little left shoulder-riding devil is just chatting way to much.   You ladies have a good-night.

Orly, I have to tell you that your "left shoulder-riding devil" has a nice tone to his voice.  He's kinda cute too!   

Thank you for being her for me... :'(

Well, you may think he is kinda cute.....but it is MY shoulder he is drooling on!

Sheesh Coco, I'm very sorry about this.  I don't understand people and why they think when they are broke, they can invade a household, b/c it's family.  I do know so many people like this.

Ok, first, I would talk to your mother and tell her to never ever do this again...years ago, people did this, all the time...and any relative was always welcome in my parents home, however, it was planned way ahead of time...so my mother could prepare.  This is so rude...and unthinking...

Second, If these people show up and don't have the money to stay in a motel/hotel, I would go out and purchase one of those blow up beds just in case...they are always good to have on hand anyway...

Coco, is this your home or your mother's home?

This is my parent's home.  It's paid for and my father has money I think they are looking at.  I talked to my brother's last night.  Nobody's really excited about what my be coming, and we may be wrong.  I hope we are.

This is a cousin on my father's side.  They don't live here, but are across the country.  My Aunt, my father's sister, died with this huge battle going on around her over nothing more than "her money."  We've always kept on friendly terms with her and her sister, because we just didn't want to get involved in the fight that we had been hearing so much about.  My Aunt's husband died and she was living with one cousin who didn't have alot of money, but was taking good care of her.  Anyway, this cousin (who's coming here) has a sister who is an attorney.  They started moving in on my good cousin (GC) and talking to my aunt, who had alzheimers and really wasn't in the frame of mind to make decisions (like my father).  The rest of their family (his surviving sisters and GC) tried to hold their ground and keep her where she was and take care of her.  The attorney cousin (AC) went through the legal system and took over my Aunts estate, sold her house, her belongings, and took her into their house.  After about a year my aunt died.  They kept everthing she had left and her money, sending my father a small sum of money, but sent nothing to the rest of his family - because they had fought with her.  These women kept the money they got, and left my GC in poverty.  They kept the money.

I'm just numb today.  Hearing all the stuff that happened to the rest of his family and how they took over, has me really fearful.  I may have no reason for it, but I have to go by what I know and I'm not a fighter, nor am I an attorney.  I am not equipt to fight it out with these women if they take aim at my father.  I'm sick about this visit.

Why would she want to come visit a year after my father is diagnosed with alzeimers (the same thing his sister had).  We haven't seen her in  at least 20 years, maybe longer.  I'm afraid, and I hope you will all keep us in your prayers, and hope for the best.  I want to be wrong.  There is so much that I left out about my aunt.  I thought it was a nightmare for GC and his sisters.  GC is barely surviving, and is now taking care of her mother too who has memory problems (but no money).  It left them destitute.

consider prayers done, coco!!!

Thank you.  I'm sick with worry.

Your wise to be uncomfortable...how does your mother feel about this?  Did she tell them they could come out of a surprise request and she didn't have time to think about it. 

This is going to have to play out, it is what it is, there is no turning back...but after the visit, I would sit down and explain to y our mother that next time this occurs, whenever anyone calls and has a request like that, she is going to have to tell them, "hmmm, let me think about this and get back to you"...and then she has to discuss it with family first...

It's tough to say no to people, however, it's her house, and she has to understand, she doesn't have to allow anyone to come into her home that she feels uncomfortable with.

For now, it is what  it is...so, try and keep together and  I know you'll do well...just bite your tongue and hope it plays out ok...

Keep writing if you get angry and persevere....

Love to you

by the way...I forgot to say, you have every right to be afraid...just stay on top of things...and don't allow your father to sign anything...don't allow these people to be alone with him at anytime....who knows, they may even bring papers with them, however, and please know, I'm not trying to make you feel bad, however, you must be ready for anything...and if things get bad, you can ask them to leave....but seriously talk to your mother before they come, and if they overstep boundaries, they must leave....

stand your ground...don't worry about hurting anyone's feelings, worry about protecting your mother and father...and you..for that matter...these people sound like intruders and users....

Many prayers going up for you....

Quote from: cremebrulee on March 13, 2010, 04:47:15 AM
Your wise to be uncomfortable...how does your mother feel about this?  Did she tell them they could come out of a surprise request and she didn't have time to think about it. 

This is going to have to play out, it is what it is, there is no turning back...but after the visit, I would sit down and explain to y our mother that next time this occurs, whenever anyone calls and has a request like that, she is going to have to tell them, "hmmm, let me think about this and get back to you"...and then she has to discuss it with family first...

It's tough to say no to people, however, it's her house, and she has to understand, she doesn't have to allow anyone to come into her home that she feels uncomfortable with.

For now, it is what  it is...so, try and keep together and  I know you'll do well...just bite your tongue and hope it plays out ok...

Keep writing if you get angry and persevere....

Love to you

Yes, this was a surprise and my mother wasn't thinking at all about consequences.  She was just tickled that this cousin wanted to visit her.  My mother has never really been someone who thinks things through.

We put my little brother and his wife on speaker phone last night.  My father and I didn't really have alot to say.  She (my mother) wanted the visit and we all danced around the other stuff without getting into it, but we did later when she wasn't there.  I'm going to put her in a hotel near the metro station, so she can take it to go into DC and see sights.  She says her son (high school age) is doing a school project and needs to visit DC to write his project??  After my mother told her she could come, I think she knew that without hearing from my father or I she may have that invitation withdrawn, so she had called my little brother and wife even before my call to them.   Of course when I got them on the line, they had no idea what had taken place because she didn't tell them she had called here first (red flag or my imagination?), and she had asked them if she could stay with them.  Does she think we don't talk to eachother?  Anyway, we will put her up and then send her off next Sunday. 

So yes, we have all decided to "see how this plays out," and put her in a hotel so she doesn't get too close.  I hope I'm wrong about this.  It doesn't help knowing what happened to my Aunt and the rest of my father's sisters.  They are living in poverty now.  It's scary to think there are people like that in my family, and I certainly don't want her getting too close...

I don't see that I can do anything about her getting "alone" time with them.  I am working on an assignment now and am gone all day.  My daughter is in school and my son is out until another week.  She's smart enough that if she wants to catch them alone, she can come through during the day when they are here alone.

I can't take time off of this assignment.  I'm just sick.

My Aunt had no children, and her surviving sisters and my father were in her original will, before these cousins got involved.  They had her will changed and left his family suffering.  I have so many concerns here.  I'm just sitting and bawling.  I 'm venting.

I want to be wrong but I'm afraid I'm right.

All you can do is go over and over it with your Mom and Dad....maybe they won't fall for it if you do....hoping not, COCO!!

Orly, I have to thank you for your support and your understanding in your PM's.  I appreciate your advice and hugs and I feel very blessed by your attention to my own problem.  You gave me alot to think about and I hope you can post your story.  I don't think I'm the only one that will be faced with this.  I would hope it doesn't happen to anyone else, but realistically, I think it will and you have helped me, just by holding me up and understanding...

Chickie, I am going to try that.  I have to realize that I am working on this woman's past history and her sister.  I'm going to try to remind my parents about how his sister's are living.  My GC (good cousin) is barely support her mother and needs assistance from the state to do it, but she's a good daughter to her mother and is taking good care of her.  This woman was given nothing and was the original woman caring for my Aunt.  Growing up, I remember this GC had a very close relationship with the aunt who died and my grandmother.  I have felt so sorry for her (and my father did too), that when he got a check in the mail from these EC's (evil cousins) we sent her some of it, although it wasn't much - 6,000 is what we sent her.  My father's check was for 10,000.  His sister was a millionare (the aunt that died).  There is no reason I can think of for my aunts sisters to be cut off, other than the fact that they were disagreeing and trying to protect my aunt.  When the EC's moved my aunt in with them, they charged their bills from her money - even some medical bills for their son.  When she died, the took what was left and sent my father a check for 10,000.  I don't ever want to be rich like that, because I remember my aunt calling in tears over people fighting around her over her money.  She died watching her family get blown apart.  Her sister's have nothing now.  It's a scary situation for me to even think that they may be taking aim again - across the country...

coco, is there a close friend or family member, or neighbor that you can explain this story to and ask them to come over and stay with your parents while these people are there....maybe you could pay them a little something for doing so...but someone should be there with them while these people are there...

Quote from: cremebrulee on March 13, 2010, 06:35:50 AM
coco, is there a close friend or family member, or neighbor that you can explain this story to and ask them to come over and stay with your parents while these people are there....maybe you could pay them a little something for doing so...but someone should be there with them while these people are there...

I'm going to try to talk to my sister IL.  I'm hoping I can convince her to take some time off.  I don't want to drag this stuff out into the open with neighbors.  My job is just not negotiable for at least another month.  Once I comitted, I was in.

Coco,you have to be just worried sick over this.You said they called your little brother,and ask to stay with them.Can that be an option?And is your Mother's mental health still good?

Mominwaiting, we did talk about that.  The problem is that my SIL would have to drive them in at 5:30-6am to drop them off somewhere and then pick them up again in the evening.  They live in another city not too far away, but far enough (about a 45 min drive) to make it hard.  That's why we thought the hotel would be better.  My Cousin can walk to the metro station and be on her own, without anyone driving the "cab" around for her.

She could still show up here when I'm not home and I don't trust that.  I don't know if my SIL can take any time off.  We may just have to take our chances.  I don't like that either.  I'm open to suggestions.  I'm actually hoping for them...

Quote from: Mominwaiting on March 13, 2010, 07:02:40 AM
Coco,you have to be just worried sick over this.You said they called your little brother,and ask to stay with them.Can that be an option?And is your Mother's mental health still good?

Oh, and yes, my mother can think clearly, but she's naive.  She has been a housewife all her life and trusts everyone who is family.  That worries me. 

I really appreciate everyone talking this out with me.  I believe I am getting some very good advice and suggestions here!  I'm worried sick about what may be coming, and I may be overreacting.  I really hope I am!  Naw, I don't think so, but I'm still hoping...  See - I guess I'm confused!  Don't know what to think

Sadly, there are ppl out there like this. Too bad, there wasn't a way to stop them from even
coming. It sounds like, they called and just said they were on their way, so you all wouldn't have
the time to back out. It sounds like they have a history of this, too. So, it isn't your imagination.
Sure, ppl can change, but after that many years; I'd be leary, too.

I had relatives that stayed away for almost 14 years. My mother passed, and shortly, I hear from
them! It wasn't simple condolences  They announced they were "in town." (It seems they count on
a sudden-surprise arrival!) Then, as I look back, came through the house, I mean, literally looking
around at possible new items!!!!!!! Here they are taking inventory!

After that "visit" I never heard from them again! I guess, there wasn't anything they felt should be
"theirs." I am telling you, I've talked to a few other ppl on this, and some just wait for their
relatives to pass--especially, if they never got along and now, they want to see you?

Coco,how far away is the metro station from your home?Maybe you could tell them you got a hotel for them,so they would be in walking distance during the day,to see the sites.And you will pick them up when you get off work,so they can spend time with your Mom and Dad.

Also,can you share your feelings with your Mom about this?Would she understand your concerns?


Sending you a big hug

Renny, I agree with you!  The problem is that if she takes "inventory" she will come after them, like she did with his sister.  I have moved in (wow, almost four years ago now) and redid their house.  I combined my stiff with their stuff and it's impressive now.  Only the immediate family knows what "my stuff" is because they were given the items that were replaced.

I couldn't stand it this morning and had cried all night long.  I was so afraid they could create the same situation here...  I went to talk to them and was honest about my "ENTIRE" suspicions (long story), since my father's diagnosis and her sudden appearance on our face-book pages.  I was stupid, ignoring her myself and "thinking" everyone else saw what she was doing.  And they didn't.  My parents know nothing about computers so I thought they were safe.  But what I explained to them this morning (and my father is having a good clear day - thank God), is that just because people have "family" or "christian" surrounding their name, doesn't mean they are people you can trust.  So many people out there are taking advantage of senior citizens. Some of them are in our family and my parents have to face that or they may die the way my aunt did.  I know that was a harsh thing to say, but I'd been up all night thinking and crying.  I saw someone "taking aim."  The clincher - my father finally spoike up.  He agreed!  He said this is really worrying him and nobody wants to have to pay 1,000 for her hotel, much less, he said - he didn't want to see her ever again.  This surprised me, but it shouldn't have.  I was only surprised because he doesn't always think this clearly about things and comes to me with simple things like understanding letters and bills, and making arrangements and phone calls for them.  God gave him a clear day, when we needed it most!

Anyway he started talking about how he remembers how they wiggled in to Aunt Helen's life and gained her trust.  I had just explained to them how people who do this don't walk in and ask you to sign on this line, but they gain your trust and the trust of your family first.  It's a foot in the door.  He remembered everything!  I was in tears.  All of the sudden he remembered that his sister's are living in poverty because of all of this.  And he said this is how it all got started.

Longer story shorter, I called my sister IL (because my father already admitted that he called her last night without anyones knowledge and told her she couldn't come here - question answered about the call to my brother before I called him!).  He was more worried that she called my brother next.  My sisrer IL told her yes, because they didn't know the story.  My father and I had "stupidly" kept our mouths shut about what happened to my aunt.  I talked to my sister IL and filled her in.  She is now trying to call this cousin to cancel.  It may be too late.  I don't know how this is going to turn out.  I'm still working on it.  I believe I was stupid for keeping my mouth shut.

I need a hug or 10

Quote from: Mominwaiting on March 13, 2010, 08:53:19 AM
Coco,how far away is the metro station from your home?Maybe you could tell them you got a hotel for them,so they would be in walking distance during the day,to see the sites.And you will pick them up when you get off work,so they can spend time with your Mom and Dad.

Also,can you share your feelings with your Mom about this?Would she understand your concerns?

Sending you a big hug

I believe that makes sense, MIW.  I'm hoping now that my father and I have both aired our feelings and are in agreement, we can stop her arrival.  If not, that may be our only option.  The metro station is still within walking distance to the house though - if she's reallly money hungry and desperate.  About a mile and a half.  My father and I were both sealing our lips thinking we were alone in our fears of this woman, until I couldn't stand it and went to talk to them this morning.  He is aparently as afraid as I am.  He knows he has bad days that someone like her can take advantage of - he saw it happen to his sister.  I'm happy he remembers.

Keep you posted.  Thank you all so much!  Please keep us in your prayers!  I'll do what I can here!  I feel stupid for keeping my mouth shut...

Good luck, Coco. You kept your mouth shut because that is the classy thing to do. It sounds like now that you've spoken up to the right people you've got support and agreement. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, it's so awkward and frightening.

My SM is like that - ran over before anyone else and took all the valuable things from my GM to whom she's not even related. When she comes to visit us she scopes out the one or two things I was given with greed in her eyes, like she's saying "How did I miss that?" This is the same woman who took over my dad's finances when they married. I don't understand people like that.

Please take care of yourself - you have a lot going on these days, and these people are not worth your sanity or your health. {{{hugs}}}

Thank you Pen!  This just came out of the blue!  I knew she was trying to get friendly with the family, but didn't think it was going here, now!  I'm suspicious now of her timing.  I've been here for two months not working.  The kind of job assignments I take are ones I can't take off of once I'm comitted.  This one will end sometime mid April.  This visit was timed perfectly on her part.  I've been dumb and blind. 

I'm opening my mouth now.  My father and I need to share what happened to my aunt with the rest of the family.  It's time.

Thank you for the hug.  I really needed that! 

Coco,I'm thrilled you talked to your father,and your SIL understands too.That has to be a relief for you.
Please dont feel stupid Coco,just like penstamen said,that is the classy thing to do.

I hope you can get in touch with them before they leave.Maybe you could just tell them it's not a good time for them to visit.

I'm keeping you in my prayers,and sending lots of hugs your way.

Quote from: Mominwaiting on March 13, 2010, 09:40:05 AM
Coco,I'm thrilled you talked to your father,and your SIL understands too.That has to be a relief for you.
Please dont feel stupid Coco,just like penstamen said,that is the classy thing to do.

I hope you can get in touch with them before they leave.Maybe you could just tell them it's not a good time for them to visit.

I'm keeping you in my prayers,and sending lots of hugs your way.

Thanks MIW.  The ball is in my SIL's park.  My father (unknown to me at the time) had called and cancelled on this cousin last night.  That explained why she made that phone call I was suspicious about.  My SIL said yes, not knowing what was going on.  I'm so proud of my father for doing that.  He kept his mouth shurt though and didn't admit it - was up worring all night like I was, in different parts of the house! 

Thank you for your prayers and hugs!  The are much needed and appreciated.  I hope there is light at the end of this tunnel.  I'll keep working.

Hard to think like predators do. They prey on a vulnerable time. I initially was hoping for a fam
link. But, it soon becomes clear their motivation.

There is usually a reason for years of absence.

God Bless, your father. He never forgot that. They couldn't make an effort sooner than 20 years,
it is highly suspicious.

Coco,
Ok, blunt talking time has arrived.  Your father doesn't want them to visit, you are scared they are going to try and manipulate your mom or dad into signing away their assets, you are afraid they are going to be "casing" your home.

  This is when you have to be to the point and rude if need be....tell them they aren't welcome to come visit.  Rescind the invitation on your doorstep if you have to, but please tell these cousins to leave.  Manners do not and should not matter when you are dealing with criminals, which I firmly believe you are dealing with.

Do not worry where the heck they are going to stay...it shouldn't be at your house, your SIL's house or anyone's that you love.  They can sleep at the metro station if they can't afford a place (which I doubt), or they can call the local POLICE for the traveler's aid number and Traveler's Aid can give them a place to stay and a meal for the night.  They didn't and don't care for the family that were scammed out of their sister's loving rememberances. 

Explain to your Mother that it isn't a good idea to have them over to visit....this isn't a family reconnection...this is an assault on everyone's life, and you don't want to see your Father and Mother end up like your Auntie.  I strongly believe you are having these dread feelings because you KNOW deep down the cousins are up to no good and that your PRIMAL LIZARD BRAIN IS TELLING YOU TO RUN.  Listen to that instinct.  Please! Please!  BE RUDE AND TELL THEM TO GO.

Amen, OR!!!! Love it!

Coco, I know it is hard to stop your manners, but this IS the time! And,
remember your INSTINCTS! You are a wonderful daughter!

They can get their "meal ticket" somewhere else.

Coco, I gotta say, I agree whole heartidly with Orly...
you don't owe these people anything...and why should you care what they think? 

They do scare me, and I'm sorry if I scared you with some of my comments, but Orly is correct, these people are leaches and criminals...they don't care about family in the least...

You don't owe them anything...and you should have a talk with your mother, after all, this is your father's family not hers...so she to, needs to understand your father's feelings on this...that is a huge flag raiser...

My mother was just like yours...trusted everyone, and there were several people I know of who took advantage of her and took money off of her...long story....

so, I'm going to tell you what was told to me...there comes a point in your parent's lives, when you must take initiative and become the parent....

so, that's my 2 cents...

Your in my thoughts, but please listen to Orly, she is one very smart cookie...

Yup! Circle the wagons, Coco!

 ;) Tell them you will decide in another 20 years!  ;) "Gee, sorry, you had to stay away sooooo
loooooong"!?  :'(

After being up all night and talking to my father this morning, I agree with this!  I've not been so understanding today about her "trip," and I have had several talks already with my father (since he's having a clear day).  I spoke with my SIL and asked her to try to catch them and tell them "no."

I'm really afraid of her.  She's been building up to this and I've kept my mouth shut along with my father.  I'll be talking to the rest of the family today.  And, I warned my father that if she shows up here, I'm not going to be very popular and my mother isn't going to like me for awhile.  He smiled :'(

Thank you all so much for taking the time to try to help me with this.  I'm afraid it's not over, but I'm trying to gather some strength thanks to the wise support and gentle understanding I've gotten from you women.  I'm hoping I will be able to sleep again soon!  I'm just waiting for her arrival.  I have to call my SIL back to see if the trip was succesfully cancelled on their end. 

Hugging you all.

Hi Coco - I try to keep up but it's a lost cause...so all of you need to remember to send me a Personal Message when I am "conspicuous in my absence."

I see this as an invasion. Anyone descending without invitation is to be looked at closely. What the cousin's intent is no one can predict but her history is disturbing.

The issue, as I see it is authority...your mother saying yes and your dad saying no leaves the door halfway open. What is required is solidarity...someone (you) needs to create the position of "Chairman of the Board" and step up to the plate.

If they don't heed your father's mandate to not come, I would put them up in a hotel for a predetermined, limited stay because of what your mother did. I would pick a very seedy and uninteresting one without any credit in the restaurant, if one is part of the facility. And I would let them know that they will have to bear the full cost of any further visits, unless OKed by you in advance...which would be highly unlikely. Also I would not take them around to see the sights. Tell them you had no time to plan anything and simply can't "work it in."

Then, I would suggest that you call a summit conference with your parents. It needs to become "law" that any future decisions that impact everyone need to be run by you and that you have the final say. They are very lucky to have you!

What I have done to protect Kirk (and this really surprised him) is to get a Durable Power of Attorney For Finance. Most elders get a Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care and that's all well and good...but "what if" I decided to take my meager savings and buy a new car because my judgment was off? It isn't easy to get Guardianship and have parents ruled incompetent but I think there as a gray-zone where that's not yet needed, and may never be...but a wiser person needs to have the authority to reign in a parent(s) take on reality. We/they don't necessarily see our budding limitations. That person also must keep close watch, of course, to be of any real use.

I got my forms online, had them notarized and just gave them to Kirk last week. He was stunned but I told him my closest friend needed an advocate when she became terminally ill, and nothing was in place. That proved to be very much to her disadvantage.

If any of this doesn't make sense, please get right back to me. Pinging you and Ponging the cousin!!!!

Sorry Luise, I'm going to have to disagree with you on even putting them up for a few days in a seedy hotel. 

This situation needs the quick cut off and a firm door shut in their faces.   I've told Coco and Creme some of the legal dealings my Husband and his family are dealing with....which involves a Sister who is lucky she hasn't been jailed already. (I'm really going to have to get that saga posted so everyone will know WHY I'm like this) When scammers, criminals, and others that try to move in on you, for your protection, the best defense is to keep your front door locked and your wallet hidden.  Even if they are family....if they fall into the dubious catagory.... firm hands and strong wills are needed to deal with them.

I agree with you 100% in principle...but...I see honoring her mother as very important here. As always, just my take.

And just for clarity...it's a one-shot deal...never again because a chain of command is being established.

Yes, I understand honoring her mother is important, so is protecting her so she can honor her.  Sometimes over-riding a parent's generous nature for her well-being needs to be considered first.   From what Coco wrote....MY lizard brain is saying this cousin had a hand in something shady leading to the Aunt's death....not able to prove it....but something is flapping up really smelly.  My hackles raised up in reaction to what Coco posted.  On this one instance, I'd have to really push the point.

As to the summit conference....a very good idea.  A POA should be in place for both Coco's parents....just as a back up.  I agree on those, (in fact, I held my mother's for her for years before it was needed). 

Point well taken. And you can push and I can push...it's all valuable input for Coco. Her mother had the authority at the time...hopefully no more. I see it as a costly kindness that would probably be in keeping with Coco's nature. Lots of opportunity here for perspective.

Luise,
That is all my opinion is...imput....Coco is the one that has to make an important choice.  Sparing back a forth between us on our opinions is a discussion....and do not doubt the fact that I respect yours.  I enjoy a good back and forth. 

It is just this matter of Coco's has my creep meter pinging and wailing .....and the dogs are out in her yard, snarling and growling to keep her family safe.

I enjoy debate, too. A "creep-meter"...how providential!!!

LOL, yeah....You know when yours goes off and you just go 'ewwww" for no reason?  I'm sure you have experienced those times in your own life where you felt that "eww" feeling.  Creep meter alarm.

Hi.  Just a quick update.  I'm waiting for the rest of the family to arrive (brothers and SIL's).  I've called a family meeting and am telling them about what happened to my aunt.  This woman has been targeting our neices since we found out the dianosis of alzheimers for my father a year ago.  She's on very good terms already with them and my brothers.  Maybe I've waited and kept my mouth shut too long - I think my father is thinking the same thing.  All I know is that it's important enough to get everyone together and discuss.

The POA is something I hadn't thought about.  I'm not sure my parent's wouldn't feel that I'm taking their rights away with it.  It's worth discussion too.  I don't want something like this to happen again.  I am really afraid of this cousin and as I explained to them this morning, these kinds of people are seedy enough to "NOT" walk into your house and be obvious, saying, sign here.  They start just like she is starting.  This is exactly how she and her sister got to my aunt.  Starting on the outside and gaining trust all the way up to that person.  Then taking over.  Next thing you know this person is gone and their family is devastated. 

I'm still waiting for everyone.  Thank you all for your ideas and concern.  Your input is something I'm thinking I might share with the family if there are any problems.  I believe I've got alot of experience behind my thinking in this situation.  Not just my father and me, but other experiences from you all to back my decisions up.

Thank you for that!

I hope you understand any mis-spellings.  I'm running a fever and am getting sick from all this.  Hopefully it will all be over soon and I will go back to worriying about spelling again!  That will be a good thing!

Orly, thank you so much for the idea of being "firm."  I'm taking that and going with it.  My mother may not like it, but I think she'll understand later.

Luise, Your idea of the seedy hotel is much better that what I was going to do which was put her up in style. What a lost idea that would be!

You have helped me so much here, I just know it!  This gives me alot to present to the family.  I'll see what happens.  Thank you so mcu!

Coco, I think that is a fantastic idea...good for you...
and know, my thoughts and prayers are with you...
God I hope they all understand...once someone does something like what these people did to your aunt, they cannot be trusted, and above all, I would not allow them in my home...not while I was at work...you never know, one of them could keep mom and dad busy while the other snoops...and I'm sorry for thinking these things, but I've heard herrendous stories from people who this has happened to...so, you need to get all your ducks in a row....and by the way, another warning..please keep in mind, these kind of people are very manipulative...so, if they don't like what you say, keep your wise cap on, and listen, b/c if they offer to stay with mom and dad, while you go here or there, that would be a flag...this is just an example, however, criminal minds are very devious...they are not doing anything for you, but for them...

We are wilth you all the way, Coco!

And the Financial Power of Attorney is just something to have in place. It doesn't take over now...it's there when needed.

For now, I hope you can alert those already under the cousin's spell and protect your parents.

Sending love!

We had a family meeting.  It doesn't sound too good.  My brothers want to see her because we all grew up playing together and they don't believe she's that bad.  They also think she won't try anything here.  They believe if she does, then we can all put a stop to it.  I'm not sure. 

It was a family decision to let her come and stay with my YB and SIL.  They will have to deal with her, and they promissed she wouldn't be in or near my parents home.  I have to accept that.   I'm not the only one involved and feel that I am outnumbered.  My father and me on one side and all of them on the other. 

Nobody thought the POA idea was a good one.  They think they can all handle whatever comes up.  So that's it.  I'm not sure it's wise, but I'm sick and just too exhausted to worry now.  I believe it's out of my hands.

Any suggestions would be nice.  I'm feeling like I'm beating my head against a wall here though and I just gave up. I can't fight city hall.  I just hope they are right.

Please keep us in your prayers.  And hope this all works out.  I'm not sure anything more can be done.  But I appreciate all the hugs and ideas.  If anyone has anymore ideas, I'm listening, but I think I'm stuck waiting for her to leave.  She has already left home to come here.

I've put a call in to my other cousin - GC.  The one who is destitute.  I'm hoping she can help.  If nothing better than to fill me in on exactly what went on there.  If this is a repeat, I may ask her to call my brothers, to soften the grasp EC seems to be gaining on them.  I'm mad at myself for not talking before this....

Good Luck coco, your in our prayers, of course...you know that...perhaps it won't be as bad as you anticipate...I surely hope so...

You are doing your best, Coco. We are with you. It is a big shock, and you are totally
overwhelmed.
Prayers, that you are protected by angels and your heart will be light. Please find time to take care of yourself.

Renn

Good luck Coco,your in my prayers,and just like Creme said,maybe it wont be as bad as you anticipate.I'm glad your YB and DIL will be looking after them,and wont allow them in your parents home,while your away.

I hope you can get some much need rest tonight,
Sending a big hug

Thank you everyone.  I need all the help I can get!  I'm afraid I won't be seeing her when she's here (well, if she's lucky!)  I took Orly's advice and bought a 2x4 - just kidding, but after what happened to my good cousin and her mother it would be a nice dream...  That's awful to think, but Orly's little drooling left shoulder devil and I have become great friends and I kind of think he's cute now! 

No really, I just feel my hands are tied and can't really do anything but wait and see how this plays out. 

I'm not sure that I won't need all this advice again.  I can't tell you all how much it means that I was so distraught, and the ideas and advice came pouring in.  Great stuff I still my get to use!  I hope I don't, but I'm hanging on.

Hugging you all back!

When the devil looks cute, a woman means business! "Hell hath no fury, ..............."  ;)

Well, she says he's her little devil, but he's a sweeeeeet talker!

OMG! I'm going to have to restrain the little drooling devil.....jumping from shoulder to shoulder...whispering, whispering.  It's bad enough that I deal with him on a regular basis, now I've infected Coco.  Maybe I'll kick the right shoulder-riding angel out to go visiting...

Coco,
Keep chatting about a POA....that way someone can make valid, legal, choices down the road if needed.  It is alot easier  to do that now,  than getting a conservatorship later.    If you have done what you can and made it clear the cousin is not to be near or in your parent's home....then YB and SIL will have to learn the hard way.  Believe me, that is one point we are dealing with here, and I feel sorry our family ostriches that keep refusing to listen.  And we have a very good, detailed paper trail to back up our side of things. 

Orly, I'm falling in love with that cute little devil!  Please don't get rid of him, because he really whispers the sweetest things in my ear.  I'm sorry he's shoulder jumping, but I'm having trouble resisting!  He says just what I want to hear!  What a cute little devil he is!  Can I borrow him from time to time, or do you think I'll earn my own sooner or later?

I kind of got kicked for mentioning POA.  Nobody liked that idea and my father looked at me like I was the one trying to go after him - like I was a traitor, so I shut up.  I'm thinking I may have to wait until the YSIL screws up and lets the EC into the house.  I can see that happening.  My father and I have been laughing at her for sometime now, because she comes in and goes shopping with their hummel figurines.  This whole thing is so depressing it's getting funny.  The more I think about the obstacles, the more tired I get, and then I have little periods of resting and giving up.  Then I wake up refreshed and ready to stand my ground again.  It's hard with two gold-diggers around.  I'm waiting until this week is over.  I'm hoping I can iron some things out reasonably after she goes, but if nobody will listen to me, then I'm screwed.  That's kind of what I felt today.  My father and I both looked hunched over and depressed.  But - we were the minority.

Anyway, I'm thinking I need to wait until this visit's over.  Then maybe find a time to talk reasonably.  I'm depressed and feel like my hands are tied.  I seem to be the only one worried so much.  But then, nobody noticed how my parents were living until I came back up here either.  I'm not sure they care and I'm just one person. 

Coco,
You don't earn the little buggers...you already have them.  You just happen to have an angel that talks louder than your devil.   My, oh so lovely drooler, is also a yeller...makes it hard to over look him alot.  And sometimes he makes his point to other people...hence your "infection".

But you're armed with a 2x4!  Creme's is concrete.  I feel sorry for him!

Oh, Wow! (So much for my wet noodle!)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Wait till you see the "DON"T LOOK HERE" post! 

We been busy!

And thank you guys!  You have made me laugh!  That's a wonderful thing to do!

Luise,
YOUR Angel has your little devil whipped all black and blue....all you need is that "wet noodle".

Oh, that's funny!  ;D

Quick update.  I just got off the phone with GC (good cousin).  The situation is worse than I thought.  She told me not be let my parents be left along with EC, and that EC will most likely be going after my father and mother next.

I thought my EC had taken control of my aunt and taken care of her "in her house."  That's not so.  My aunt pulled my GC aside at my uncles funeral (her husband) and pleaded with her not to let them put her away in a nursing home.  She said aunt Helen said she was afraid of them (the EC's and their family.  She asked if she could come live with GC and GC said yes.  My aunt didn't want them to know until she was living there with GC that she was moving in with her. GC helped her move some things, and once Aunt was there, Aunt called the other EC's house and told them she moved in with GC.  They threw a fit, had someone come to visit.  One person kept GC busy talking in the kitchen, while the other went in and talked Aunt into coming to see their family. Aunt went to see them and it was the last GC saw of Aunt.  The EC's had Aunt declared incompetent, got a POA and put her into a nursing home, where she died.

She said that the way all of this is going with my family is typical, and EC may turn the whole family against me because I'm the caretaker, etc...  I'm afraid.  I asked her if she would call my parents and tell them everything she told me, especially the fact that she "insisted" they not be alone with EC at all.  My phone went dead and is charging.  I'm calling her back again when it's charged and will be asking her to call my brother's as well and tell them everything also.

I'm in panic mode again.  Headache, fever.  What next.

Coco,this is just awful,i know it's going to be hard,but try to not panic.I'm hoping GC will call your Brother and tell them the story too.Have another talk with your parents,insist they not have any contact.Maybe your GC will tell them also.

Offering up lots more prayers.

Mominwaiting, thank you so much!  I feel like I'm the eye of the storm, and I wish I could just sit down and forget it.  My feelings get in the way of ignoring this (I believe Orly calls this the Lizzard Brain).  It's about intuition and even if it makes me sick, I have to keep pursuing.

I'm hoping all works out in the end and can head EC (evil cousin) off at the pass.  Like Luise has said before (and I agree), control is just an illusion (well, I guess I've said that before too, and I believe invisible has too?).  I don't feel I have control of this and it scares me, however with that in mind, I can only put "my best efforts" out there and hope I can reach the people in my family who have already fallen for this person who comes across honestly, but isn't.  My GC confirmed my intuitions.  That wasn't a good thing.  I was truly hoping her insight would give me hope...

As you can see, your prayers are something I need, and yes - I do believe in prayers!  The more the merrier.  I believe God (the universe or whatever you call this) hears our feelings and wishes.  I don't believe I'm alone, but that doesn't mean I don't have to fight for what's right sometimes.  Even if it makes me sick...

Thank you for your prayers and your complete understanding!  It's important to me, and I appreciate those efforts more than I can say.  Just because we don't "see" eachother physically, doesn't mean God doesn't answer! 

Thank you again!

I think I would ask GC to write that all down and have it notarized. You need to have that documentation. You are strong. You are "in residence" and she can't get past you.

Sending love and Pinging away!

I spoke to GC again after my phone charged a little, and she told me more horrifying things.  This isn't good, but she is calling my parents to speak with them. 

I absent mindedly hung up before I could get her email address, so I have called back and left her a VM asking for that.  As I told her, I think it's important for us all to stay in very close contact and would like the rest of the family to hear what she has to say.  I don't want years to go by again, as I havent seen or spoken to her for a couple of years either.  I really think we all need to get in touch and stay in touch.

I hadn't thought about the letter, Luise.  Thanks!  It's a great idea.  Maybe I can get her to send me an email, or several emails explaining exactly what she said to me.

I think I'm also going to ask her if there is anyone else in the family that I can talk to, that can do the same thing - talk to my parents, brothers, etc...

I may not be able to stop this visit, but if I can just warn the family, then I would feel better about it.  My GC agreed with the POA idea also!  I told her I would pay her plane fare to come visit.  She can't come right now, because her husband is really sick, bedridden.  So, now isn't good, but later would be great.  I think the family here needs to hear her story from her own mouth and be able to see her, but I don't know when that will happen.  At least she understands the expenses will be paid when she can.

Update:  Waiting.....

My EC hasn't shown up yet.  Of course, I think she's showing up at my YB and SIL's house, so I just may not have heard yet. 

I put a call into my GC this afternoon, but I knew she had plans.  She didn't answer so I left a VM. 

I think she called my parents earlier, but I'm too chicken to ask and they haven't mentioned it...  LOL!  Really!

The plot thickens...

One thing to know about a POA, is that another family member can write one any time that makes yours obsolete. My sister did that to me when my Dad, who had been living with me for years, went into nursing. She didn't want anything to do with him when he needed to be taken care of at home. What a sweetie!

I do know that in MO or WY, once a person has progressed far enough into a"dementia" or altered state...that POA's can't be over ridden that easily...because they can't think the process though to the end (this is going to affect an initial issuance too, if someone is sufficently altered mentally, they may not be able to issue the ok for a POA). Legally, the POA issuer has to write a letter rescinding the first POA.  That's when you have to go the conservator route.  We found this out in our legal case that we are slugging out now.     A POA also ends when the issuer passes away...the conservatorship continues afterward until things are completely settled or the executor takes over.

Well, right now I'm the executor.  Is that good news?

Quote from: Orly on March 15, 2010, 05:17:15 AM
I do know that in MO or WY, once a person has progressed far enough into a"dementia" or altered state...that POA's can't be over ridden that easily...because they can't think the process though to the end (this is going to affect an initial issuance too, if someone is sufficently altered mentally, they may not be able to issue the ok for a POA). Legally, the POA issuer has to write a letter rescinding the first POA.  That's when you have to go the conservator route.  We found this out in our legal case that we are slugging out now.     A POA also ends when the issuer passes away...the conservatorship continues afterward until things are completely settled or the executor takes over.

your right orley, I have a friend whose husband was dying...his mother and father went to the hospital while he was dying and had him sign over his entire estate to them, they had the papers ready.

You can imagine her horror...

She took it to court, had an excellent paper trail, and won, thank God!

I should correct that - co-executor, with my older brother, but I believe I'll be doing most of the work since he's an hour away and I'm right there.  I know where all the important papers are and what to tackle first.  Even have an obituary drafted up.  Buriel arrangements are paid for and taked care of already.  They want to be cremated - paid for...  I know this sounds morbid and it was hard, but I wanted to be prepared as much as possible, because I'm not sure what my mental and emotional state will be at the time of passing...

Such gruelling things to think about, but they had to be done.

You are the one that has to carry out their wishes in a will.   I thought that was funny in your first run over the stats about your EC....I didn't think a POA could change a will, other than bulling the person into signing  and with the estate going entirely to them, it was just odd.  Made me wonder where the judge's head was at.

POA or a conservatorship is better right now when they are here and you are taking care of them.  I know almost every thing financial is going to take a noterized copy of the conservatoship papers to even do a thing first and formost.  It's just a pain to have to whip a copy out every time you go someplace new.  (not to change the subject, but having a medical living will should be on your to-do list too.  That way you know exactly what the person wants at a time they CAN"T speak. Very important, and very hard to discuss.)

IF you guys got that far and the lawyer DIDN"T discuss a POA....he was remiss.  And no, these things need to be gone over and taken care of long before (or even if you will ever) needed.   

I probably didn't explain the first run about my EC very well.  They got the POA and then later also got her signature to change her will.  I'm still getting bits and pieces I wasn't aware of.  My cousin says they originally put her in a nice retirement home, where she had nurses check on her but still had alot of freedom to go outside and do things.  Then they put her in another "seedy" nursing home where she died right after the will was changed.  Tell me your thoughts on all this.  Does her story make sense?

GC agrees with the POA.  I think everyone else thinks I'm paranoid, but they don't know what I know about her.  I kept my mouth shut.  I'm just not a gossiper!  Sometimes (like this) it works against you, because all this came up and nobody knew but my father and I.

I didn't really get that far.  This was my GC's experience.  She didn't have a POA, but took my aunt in.  I guess I don't understand what you're saying.  One of the two EC's is an attorney.  She pulled all the strings on my GC and aunt.

Quote from: cremebrulee on March 15, 2010, 05:23:45 AM

your right orley, I have a friend whose husband was dying...his mother and father went to the hospital while he was dying and had him sign over his entire estate to them, they had the papers ready.

You can imagine her horror...

She took it to court, had an excellent paper trail, and won, thank God!

If, they both had their names on all the assets, then his mom and dad shouldn't  have been able to pull that stunt.  The surviving owner becomes sole owner,
when either partner passes.  Finanical papers...if you don't want to share the asset...POD trumps a will.  Nothing at all can be done with that financial instrument...except by the POD recipient. (that is thanks to the Patriot ACT)

Coco,
Geez, I think I'd be checking into GC filing malpractice on the EC.   And with that info ..... Yeah, you need protection all the way around, in place, ASAP.

OK, now you're talking legal stuff that I really don't understand.  Please don't laugh at me - at least not out-loud!  What is a POD

Then,  I have to say that I'm the only one interested in a POA.  Are you saying that as long as the will is filed and in place, the POA will mean nothing?

I guess what scares me is that this EC (evil cousin) and her sister have knowledge of laws I'm not familiar with, and knowing that the attorney has taken advantage of the other family and broken them, then seems to be aiming for my parents has me shaking.  This EC that is visiting has been working on everyone since my father's diagnosis.  I didn't even think about it, because she's halfway across the country.

I don't think I can get a POA right now and I don't want to come across as if I'm as evil as they are.  So, with that in mind, if the will is in place, would that mean that part is safe?

Do you think if they pull anything "funny" my brother's and I can over-rule what they try, since we are the remaining heirs AND THE NATURAL CHILDREN?  My aunt didn't have any children.  I wonder if this is how they got away with alot of what they did.  Once she moved in with my GC (good cousin), they went after her.  Do you think it makes a difference in the legal system, that we (my brothers and I) are their children, and these two are cousins?

What would they be able to do?

Warning: this was modified adding the bold print

Yeah Coco, it makes sense to me.  Guess it is because we are doing a slugfest here over my MIL.  The other things were when I took care of my mother....thank god she kept her wits until the very end, so I just had to make sure everyone else followed her wishes.  It didn't stop my step-dad from trying to rob all her grand children or usurp property that had a co-owner on it.  Since, it was a second marriage, she kept most of her assets out of the marriage pot and he had no say over it.  The one thing he did have in his name was her burial policy....that went for a down payment on a car instead of taking care of her burial.


POD=pay on death

Yeah, I think your parents having heirs puts a pretty big roadblock in their way....it is just better to have the legalities taken care of.   Another thing, if this EC is a lawyer, why is she so broke she needs to have a place to stay?  Leads me to think they ARE trying a end-run on your family.  Like I said.....criminals, criminal lawyers....send them packing.

POA's and conservatorships ARE needed before.  Either one, the conservatorships carrying the most clout because in effect you BECOME the guardian of your parent, and usually once you are, it isn't changed easily.  A petitioner would have to go to court to show cause to get it changed.  The court would review how the first conservator is handling the finances of the one under the protection....here in WY the conservator has to file an accounting every six months.  Yeah, it is more paperwork, but you have a better case to defend if someone wants to come in and change it (and once in, it is very hard to get off said conservatorship).  Judges usually DON't change them unless the petitioner shows that the first conservator is not doing the job  and it takes alot of proof, not just  he-said/she-said.

And usually, to my understanding, the children of someone are the primary heirs after the spouse (if you don't have a will)....aunts, cousins, etc are secondary heirs. 

The one visiting isn't the attorney, this is the attorney's sister.  Sort of her partner in crime (from what my GC tells me).  She said the one visiting may be clearing the way. 

By "end-run," do you mean getting to my parents by going through the rest of the family?  That's what I thought.  She doesn't really have anything to do with me, because I don't answer her facebook notes...   I'm sure she KNOWS what I think of her now, but I've been distantly friendly, thinking I'll just keep the peace.  The rest of the family, and she seems to be targeting my older brothers kids (my neices), think she's an angel. 

My GC said she's been fired from a job for stealing, and takes things from people's homes.  HA!  Maybe after this visit my YB and SIL won't want her back either.  They wouldn't listen to me or my father though.

In my parent's will,  My older brother and I are listed (in the first paragraph) as the executors.  Doesn't this automatically give us the right to take over finances at that time?

Really, I can understand your feelings about not being seen in the same light as your EC.   But, to my practical side, YOU are doing the job now...you aren't going to get the paperwork filed and then march your parents down to a home the minute you get it.  SOMEONE NEEDS to be able to handle these things when the time calls for it.  If a son/daughter has a POA, it doesn't mean the other spouse's will is ignored, they just have the ability to carry out things for their parent/parents.  (remember though, in my case I was following my mother's directions, she knew what my step-dad had devolved into and DIDN"T want him handling any of her assets...that's why she gave the POA to me and not him).  Now a days, even your mom might have a tough time enforcing medical choices for your dad, since they have changed so many laws.

And to my knowledge, a will can be changed anytime before death....from what you wrote too by the POA or the conservator.   So, if the ECs weasel into that post before your parents pass (GOD Forbid that for years) they could change that.   A will is an after-the-fact statement....your job is to carry out the last wishes of the loved one.  Plus, that job really starts after the will is placed in probate.   

So, to wrap it up,   Your parents are in a legal limbo at the moment....if anything happens to incapcitate them, anyone can swoop in and take control.  The hospital, a doctor, EC....or someone your parents know and trust....who should be handling these choices?

Sorry, for the long winded opinions.  The final one is to go to a lawyer and get their opinion on this too.

I know I sound like I may know alot about this...but, since the family IS in the middle of some of the same thing...I have been chatting up our lawyer bunches.   The poor man absolutely "cringes" to see me coming....he knows I'm gonna be asking for answers in depth and until I understand what we are facing.

Well, Orly!  I sure am glad you're here and have the knowledge you have!  Thanks for asking those questions!  You can tell that attorney that someone else is asking the same ones and you are passing some knowledge along!  LOL! 


I knew the will could be changed anytime before death.  Originally, since I wasn't living here, both of my brothers were executors, but my little brother married a woman who everyone see's as a gold-digger and about 6 months after I had been here (and had promissed my parents I would stay till they passed), my father changed his will and took my little brother off (because of his wife) and added me instead.  My parents (and I) just didn't trust her.  She shops when she comes through.  LOL! 

My grandmother (on my father's side) always had a gift.  "Awesome intuition!"  She saw spirits and talked to them - please don't start the twilight zone music. I've had that and my GC has that.  I think there's alot to be said for that being passed down, but this has me blindsighted!  It was unexpected and surprised me.  I just didn't see it coming!

coco, wait until you get orley's bill... ;D

What? A new 2x4?  That would be nice....this other one is getting splintered.

Oh, I'd like one with a bow on it ...Please.

Quote from: Orly on March 15, 2010, 07:37:52 AM
What? A new 2x4?  That would be nice....this other one is getting splintered.

Oh, I'd like one with a bow on it ...Please.

wull, if you wouldn't slap so many people with it....it wouldn't get so splintered... ;D

HAHAHA!  Wow!  Orly, you must have some swing!

Quote from: cremebrulee on March 15, 2010, 09:07:38 AM
wull, if you wouldn't slap so many people with it....it wouldn't get so splintered... ;D

Sorry Creme......I DON"T slap them with it.....I THUMP'EM hard!   If you're gonna be swinging said item, swing it with authority!  Plus my little devil has been getting a workout from it too!

But, Orly?  Creme's thumper is "cement!"  She just has to lift it an turn! ;D

Yes, I should say that cute little devil's been working out all right!  He was showing me his muscles the last time you came through!!

By the way, I like the way you limp! ;D

yes, and I have a baseball bat to.... :o

Yeah, but I think you look better turning with the cement 2x4!  It's kinda cute! ;D

I don't really know how this will turn out.  My EC is at LB and SIL's house and hasn't turned up here yet (to my knowledge).  The family all thinks they're safe and can stop anything she may try.

I can't help but think we need a POA, but I stand alone in that thought, so I feel I have to go along with the family.  Hopefully all will turn out ok.

Thanks for all your help and advice.  I'll post updates as they come.

You don't need anyone's approval to get a Durable Power of Attorney for Finance and Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care. You need one of each for your Dad and one of each for your Mom, should he predecease her. The rest of your family can think what they wish but I strongly recommend that you move on this now.

POAs don't go into affect unless the need arises and that has to be established medically. Getting them now is just a cautionary measure. Everyone should understand that. I signed mine before a Notary and gave them to Kirk as a cautionary measure. I'm fine as you well know. I got them online from: www.legasywriter.com They are relatively inexpensive. I ordered one of each so I could read them carefully before I did anything at all. They can either be downloaded or hard copies can be send to you via snail mail. (That's what I did.)

More than one person can be named POA in order of preference. I named Kirk, his life partner, Sandy, and his ex, Sonja. That's all done in "Article I." Then the POAs just sit in a Safe Deposit box until activated. You don't get them when they're needed. You get them when when they're not needed, like an insurance policy, and if you never need to use them, that's OK. But please don't put it off.

Activation is Article II. It states:

"This Power of Attorney shall become effective immediately and shall survive and continue during my disability, incompetence, incapacity or partial disability. This Power of Attorney shall not be affected by subsequent disability, incompetence or incapacity or by lapse of time. Disability, incompetence, incapacity or partial disability shall include, without limitation, my inability to manage my property and affairs or caring for myself, effectively, for reasons such as mental illness, mental deficiency or other mental capacity, physical illness or disability, advanced age, senility, chronic use of drugs, chronic intoxication, which may be evidenced by a written statement of my regularly attending physician or two other qualified physicians or by court order." 

So, what you will be holding is dormant until activated.

I have printed this out to show them, but I'm really afraid it will do no good.  I don't know what to do to get their attention, and may be looking at watching them be hurt beyond words.  I'm not the kind of person that says "I told you so."  It's hard to watch an entire family be taken in by someone who is devious and has motives.  I'm wrong in their eyes, because my mouth was shut too long (my mistake). 

My EC is very convincing (of course, how else would she have taken my aunts life and those of her sisters).  Nobody will listen and if I continue to press this, I am afraid I will be on the outside (as I almost am now), watching my parents die and giving my inheritance, along with my brothers away.  I don't know what to do anymore.

This is on my mind daily, hourly, and every minute.  I think I may have to try to take a break from it, trying again when I have the energy to do so.  The depressing thing about all this is that my mother told this EC to come and the rest of the family seems to just want to go belly up to please her, without considering that it's dangerous. 

Nobody sees that this is not a wise decision here but me now, and I stand alone.  My GC gave her input to my parents.  She told me that my aunt was fine and there was nothing wrong with her mind, but they put her away in to places.  One was a retirement home, and once the paperwork was done, she was put into a seedy nursing home and locked in a room.  My GC visited both places.  I feel like I'm lost here...

Just do the four POAs; a financial and a health care on each parent. You don't need anyone's agreement. Have them sing before a Notary and put them carefully away.

I don't think they will sign.  I think my SIL and EC have convinced them I am the greedy one.  I believe my hands are tied and am really upset to watch all this.  I guess I'm giving up.  All I feel I can do it my best and if that's not good enough, then I'll just have to watch.

They don't think a POA is necessary.  They think they are fine.

They think they can control what happens. :'(

Maybe they can but don't take nay chances! Love you!

Thank you, Luise.  I wish I didn't have to, but it looks like I will.

Sorry Coco,
I've been with the lawyers today myself.  It may be getting to the point where you will HAVE to step up and just get conservatorship.   Go get some legal advice....usually the first visit is free and you can lay out your fears, then get some details advice for your state.  Step back from pushing your family...they sound like mine at this point....and go get some major legal advice.  Straight from the horses mouth.

Do it before you have to. Quietly and swiftly and we'll just hope they are right and you never need it. Mine is just insurance. I got both POAs, financial and Health Care,  in case Kirk ever sees that I'm not making sense and acting in my own best interest, he can step in. I'm in great shape now...that's the time to do it.

Your parents would have been wise to have them in place years ago. Better safe than sorry.

Sending love!

Orly, I agree with getting an attorney's advice.  I've spoken to my son who has an attorney he think's hung the moon!  LOL!  Normally, my parents and I have been using the same attorney for years, but he's has gotten such a good reputation that he is representing congressmen, etc., and his fee's have gotten so high, combined with being in demand so much - that I don't believe a consultation would be free.  The last time I checked with him, he charged $350.00/hr.  Hence, the conversation with my son.  I may have to wait until I get a break between jobs here, if they don't hire me in the meantime.  If that happens, then I will ask for a little time to take care of personal business, before starting onboard as an employee - so I can see his attorney. 

I hope things are going well on your end too.  Such a depressing thing to go through and worrisome too!  I appreciate all your advice here, more than I can say.  I really came through with this post in panic mode, because I had no idea what they could do and had such a bad feeling about this visit.  I still do, but the difference is that now I believe I need to concentrate on protecting my family, and I sooner than I thought.

Luise, you are so right and I see that.  I'm having such a time trying to convince everyone.  I'm afraid I've pushed the point to where I'm the one looking suspicious.  As far as signatures go, I don't believe I will be able to get them right now.  I can always go on the internet and order them, but will have to hold them until someday when my parents see the need to have them.  Right now they don't.

Last night my parents were picked up by my SIL and taken to my older brother and his wife's for dinner.  When I went to bed, they weren't home yet.  I think paranoia set in and I hardly slept because I kept having horrible thoughts of her putting something in their food.  I know that's an off-the-wall thought, but I keep thinking about my aunt and how she was treated by them, then how quickly she passed once they changed her will.  I'm afraid I won't be able to rest until she's out of town (Sunday she is supposed to leave).   I'll probably exhale then, and I'm hoping I'll be able to think clearer too.  Maybe we can get to place where we can talk about "protection" again.  I'm pretty sure that without their signatures, there is nothing I can do, but that's where the attorney will come in.  Maybe they will go with me to talk to the attorney.  That might be the best thing for everyone, so they know I'm not just being greedy.  That way they will be in on the conversation.

I'm hoping...

My mistake, Coco...I thought it was the rest of the family that disagreed not your parents. I somehow got that your father thought it wise and your mother would go along. Having just initiated mine, signed everything and put them away for Kirk, I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't see the need.

OK...and if and when you can just get it across that it's just insurance, that might help. Surely they see the need for that. Sending love.

Actually, you're half right!  At first my father was really upset and said he didn't want to ever see her again.  Since then he has been convinced by everyone else that he is safe, and so he's just going along with it.  I am hoping when she leaves, we will be able to talk about getting some legal advice "together" and maybe then he and my mother will see the importance. 

I'm waiting...

Thank you Luise.  I will post any updates that come.  I'm trying to make it through the week.

It will feel nice when I know I'm waving "goodbye" to a dangerous relative...

"Sigh",  yep I can relate to that feeling.   As much as one would like to have a "Father knows best" or "Leave it to Beaver" type of family,  most of us have that one or two questionable members (in the extended family or the immediate one).  That is when my little devil starts whispering, "Gee, lightening should blast them outta their shoes...." or something else horrible.   And the angel is trying to shush him up.


We deal with them the best we can.

I'm in your corner. Don't have much more to offer except regular Pings.

coco, whatever happens, know we love you and hope it all works out...stay vigulant, and listen to these gals...they're pretty darn savvy if you ask me...

hugs and luv
creme

I have finally bitten off more than I can chew.  My entire family has been taken in by this visit.  I don't know what to say or think.  Everyone thinks EC is wonderful.  I have to be honest.  Need somewhere to just talk.  I know that my OB was taken on some real estate deals by a very good "christian Realtor."  Being in the real estate business at the time, I warned him not to go into the last deal.  He did.  He and his wife are filing bankruptcy now. 

This is very depressing.  My father told me today that my EC is wonderful.  I said I didn't doubt that, but you need to be careful and not be taken in by someone who acts like that, and told him anyone can "act" that way for a short time, but it's not always who they are.  I reminded him of the things my GC said and he said he doesn't believe it.  I said, GC?  She was more honest than anyone I know, and was the closest to "Grandmother" and "Aunt." 

I'm very depressed.  I would like nothing better right now than to just crawl in a hole for at least a week.  The tables have turned.  Now, I'm the bad guy.  Someone, just shoot me.

Oh Coco,thats just awful.How did your dad change his mind this fast?And i thought GC called and talked to him also.

Please don't get depressed,you were trying to do the right thing.

Sending a big hug

And you're not paranoid. That is when people imagine someone is a threat. She really is!!!

Thank you all for your support through this.  I really need it and I know you know that.  Just wanted to let you know how much it is appreciated.

Mominwaiting, my father trust my OB and my OB thinks my EC is ok.  I think that changed his mind.  I'm not really sure, because I don't go see her and since I have a problem with her, they are keeping her visits away from the house.  Thank God.  That's a good thing as far as I'm concerned.  I know how charming these scam artist are and have my own experiences, which only makes me ashamed for the rest of the family that they aren't seeing it.  I can't expect everyone to listen to me when the majority of my family is thinking she's ok.  I kept my mouth shut too long and opened it too late.

My GC says EC is very convincing and charming.  I have to remember growing up (because they live halfway across the country and I don't see them anymore), my GC and I seemed to be the only honest ones in the bunch.  LOL!  I know she is taking care of a husband who is bedridden and getting ready to pass, and her elderly mother.  That's pretty honest to me.  She let my aunt move in and tried to protect her, even if it didn't work.  So, I still see an open and honest heart.

My EC shows all the signs of a scam artist, and I'm seeing how she can come through and charm everyone, convincing people to trust her easily, like GC has said.  The fact that my GC tells me that there was nothing wrong with my Aunt's mind is something that bother's me.  My Aunt was no worse off than my father is now.  He doesn't need constant care, but just a little help from time to time.  I don't believe he would be able to keep up the yard if I wasn't here, and I drive them if they need to go anywhere.  That's a yard service and a cab.  He needs help making phone calls and sometimes figuring out bills, but that still doesn't say "nursing home" in my book.  I'm not in a position where I am constantly giving him my attention and my parents function pretty well by themselves.  I go up and check on them every day and see what needs to be done.  That isn't a nursing home to me.  I'm just thinking things through.

Yes Luise, I agree and believe she really is a threat.  Why am I standing alone here?

My guess is that you may be the bright bulb. On top of that, you can be emotional and brothers (males) tend to discount anything connected with emotion, as we all know.

I think your best thing is to appear to let it go. I think that may be the only way you may eventually sell the idea the two POAs each. It simply has nothing to do with the EC...you've let that pretty much go and bow to big bro. The POAs are just what sensible adults do and then they put them away and forget about them. They aren't about dire and foreboding stuff. They just wise and may never be used...like fire insurance, (which everyone has.)

Thanks Luise.  I think you're right about acting as though it doesn't bother me.  It's obvious letting everyone know how I feel is working against me.  I agree wholheartedly about the POA's and hope that when things calm down I will be able to talk to them and get them in an attorney's office with me.  It doesn't mean I'll be driving them around to see EC though.  Yesterday a swung by for lunch and my mother wanted me to take her to meet my LB's wife and EC somewhere.  My father had said he wasn't going.  I told her that I couldn't because I had to get back to the office, but even if it were not during office hours I wasn't willing to contribute.   This was a visit that my father and I both didn't want, and was forced by my SIL stepping into everything and offering.  I told my mother that since SIL took this on, I'm staying out.  What I said was, "this is her deal, not mine, and she will have to do it."  What do you think?  Was I right for taking that stand?  I'm just not sure how to handle all this because I haven't been in this position before of being the only one standing...

Coco,
You stated your pov to your family about the EC, they poo-poo'd your concern.  Not jumping into the visiting schedule of your SIL and EC, is ok from my take on things.  Your "stand", at this point, is a polite way of staying disengaged from the EC. 

Thank you Orly.  That's how I felt, but am feeling sort of in the outs since I'm the only one with a problem now. :(

I never know if I'm coming across as unreasonable, but am happy you understood what I was saying...

How's the visit going Coco?  Has EC left yet?

Hi Orly!

I don't know if she's left or not.  I'm left in the dark now.  Judging by the time of day, I would guess she has left. 

I'm singing, "Ding Dong the witch is Gone!"  Sorry, couldn't help myself!  Shhhh, it's a secret!  Your left hanging devil was good to me!  Thank him for me, will ya!  LOL!

LOL!!

LOL!  Thanks Dorothy!  I'm happy you remember "The Wizard of Oz."  I still think it's one of my favorites - especially after this!

Orly, I have to thank you for being "in my corner" this past week.  I'm exhaling now, and I'm waiting for the "dust" to settle!  This week gave me alot to think about.  It reminded me that "I" am the only one responsible for my own future! 

But, I have friends now!  Thank you!

Exhaling...

Coco, Just call them and tell them everyone in your home was recently exposed to H1N1 and you couldn't possibly subject them to the potential for contagion.  OK, well maybe it's not the best idea but it's an idea anyway....:)

Hugs!

HAHAHA!  That's so funny!  Silence - you are definately golden!  I needed that laugh more than you know!

Thanks!  Huge hugs!!!  Hope you catch them! ;D

Oh, that's rich!!  ;D ;D

I'm still walking on egg shells at home and letting the dust settle!  I'm figuring this may take a couple of weeks.  There is alot I didn't write about, just because I was tired of it and felt like I was beating a dead horse after awhile.  I need the time (I think) more than they do.  Whew!  Happy this visit is over... 

I found out who my friends were - thank you all, and especially you Luise and Orly.  You were at my back every waking moment and with every post, you were encouraging me.  I don't know how I would have been able to handle it without you!

That's what WWU is all about, isnt it? We don't "drown." We get tossed life preserver(s!)  :D

Well, I know I was tossed several!  That's something else about this site that amazes me!  There is widespread experience between everyone here, and the information in situations like this is invaluable! 

Hugging you all!

Coco,
Sorry I saw this whole thread too late to encourage you while your EC was still in town, but I'm relieved that she is gone now.  I have absolutely no experience or wisdom in this arena to lend, but I do have lots of love coming your way.  I hope you can feel all my energy invested in wanting it to all work out for you.  (I feel like I lost five pounds from just reading the posts and feeling the emotion.  You must be absolutely exhausted living through it!)  I'm praying that after things calm down, your parents will visit a lawyer with you and see the importance of the POA's.  Additionally, I'm so thankful that Orly and Luise were there for you (and others) - they were awesome!
Love and hugs,
Hope

I agree Hope and am happy I had this forum when all that was going on.  I became so exhausted with it all that I just couldn't keep up with the updates, and felt like the "drama" was getting worse by the day (maybe even the hour).  There was alot that went on that I didn't say and Orly was a great shoulder to lean on, sending my encouraging PM's throughout the whole ordeal.  I still have alot to do, but am taking a much needed breather and letting the dust settle.  My son ended up being my backbone toward the end and I thank God he was there also.  My GC is writing a letter to my parents that I hope will be passed around, but since my parents have been seeing EC last week, I'm not sure how much help that will be.  It's my hope that they will (in some way) remember all the "drama" that was going on in the EC's part of the country and see the truth in her words (GC).  I think I just need to back up a little and give them some time right now.  My GC can't come visit because her hands are so full.  She also has a daughter who had a baby (in her late teens) and her daughter decided she didn't want the baby, so GC is adopting this little girl. 

Hopefully things will work out, and I can get these POA's in place.  I don't know how long this process will take though, because I'm just waiting now, until I can find a good time to discuss it with them to make that appointment.

Thank you Hope, for all your well wishes!  Late is never too late, and I still feel the hugs and encouragement that is so needed here!