I've posted about this before but haven't been on lately. My dil can be charming, thank us for everything we do, good with pictures, cards, gifts for us but....
is so darned spoiled (her whole family is so "whatever" and just lets rude behavior slip by anyone....just lets it go. The extended family is very large and very close; there is less financial responsibility and a lot more impulsivity in the family than in ours; however, they are polite to us although dh doesn't feel included, but it's ok w me what attention we get.
Dil was in control of her immediate family to an extent (more responsible than mother) so she grew up spoiled yet controlling.
So....she has a sudden temper, questions nearly everything, "Why are the eggs still out"; "why did you dress gs that way" ; "why did you wash that load with the wrong soap"......... now that's to dh and me. With our son, her husband, it's "why are you so late from work? ((he really wasn't))", "why are you going on that trip for work?", "why didn't you feed the dog?" etc. etc. etc.
I am a people pleaser.....so I get my feelings hurt. Any hints on comebacks? It does make me feel better just not to answer sometimes and walk out of the room or to say something silly back.
I am very disappointed in ds who rarely retorts back, works like a dog at work and home (dil is sahm and he does help a lot), does everything to please...... I want to say, "Hey man up!" because his daughter is already spoiled (he is too easy on her, too.....); he is assertive at work and wasn't raised to be a wimp.....
I know I can't change him or say anything to him about his wife. Disastrous! I do think when she says these sometimes cruel, snappy things to him that I shouldn't look away like I do; that I should at least give him a look, like, "really?" But I know better than to interfere.
DS is just too sweet; well, I'm a people pleaser and am submissive to a point w dh so guess ds comes by it naturally.....
Ok, how do I maintain some self-respect while being "bossed around" by dil? I know Dr. Phil says we teach others how to treat us. I don't want to lose the family. Oh, btw, dil is bossy w her own family and even friends (though she is careful around them.) DH isn't around dil as much as I am but just accepts that she is what she is. I keep waiting for him to blow (a few words) bc he can have a temper, though he is quite controlled around the family.
I know I've posted about this before..... I need a refresher course! thanks!
justanoldgrandma, good to see you again :)
I know what you mean, I know some people like that too. I prefer to say really dumb stuff back, like if she is telling you how to load the dishwasher or asking why you did it a certain way -- I would just get stupid with it and ask her to show me and go through a big charade and then laugh. She'll get it. But you have to be able to do it with a good sense of humor or she will find it offensive, but if you can do it silly enough, she might get the hint.
Or, you can always just straight out tell her what you've said here -- you enjoy her company, give her the compliments but then say it really hurts when you do/say this stuff. Can you knock it off? If she is how you say she is, she might not even know how she's coming across and would be open to hearing your point of view.
And you're right, there is nothing you can do about the treatment DS accepts, so I think mentioning that is the last thing you should do. Just talk for you and from the heart.
Is it possible that DIL is a direct speaker and you're an indirect speaker? Because her questions seem okay to me.
Q: "Why are the eggs still out"
A: Oh, I got distracted after breakfast.
or
A: They've only been out for 10 minutes or so, I was going to put them away after breakfast.
or
A: Yeah, we kind of got carried away after making the muffins, here, let me put them away.
Q: "why did you dress gs that way"
A: I thought it was cute!
or
A: We weren't going out anywhere today, so I figured I'd let him be comfy. I was going to dress him better (warmly, whatever) if we decided to go out.
Q: "why did you wash that load with the wrong soap"
A: I just used the one on the shelf.
or
A: Which soap do you prefer?
(Or better yet, why are you doing laundry at DIL's? - You should probably stop that. My Mom does some laundry for us but I wouldn't want my MIL to.)
As for the questions to your son:
"why are you so late from work?"
Maybe, he was supposed to be home early, because HIS parents were visiting. Again, I wouldn't want my IL's visiting while my DH went to work. We just don't have that kind of relationship.
"why are you going on that trip for work?"
Maybe she wants to know? I don't get why this is a mean question. Maybe her tone was mean? But maybe she doesn't like when he goes on trips for work and then she's in charge of the kids and the dog without a break. Without even a warm body in the house, so she can go grocery shopping alone. Maybe she can't sleep when he's not there.
"why didn't you feed the dog?"
Was the dog his idea? Maybe they have a deal where HE feeds the dog. I know it sounds petty, but that's how it works in our house too. Sure, I COULD clean the litter boxes and I COULD take out the trash and I COULD empty and re-load the dishwasher, but those are my DH's ONLY jobs around the house. Because honestly, he COULD make the lunches, he COULD get DD's breakfast, or help her pick clothes, or brush her hair, or help her get her stuff ready for school (and that's just the AM routine).
The thing is, especially with the questions to your DS. You're not party to their marriage, you don't know the deals they've made and you don't know how they work things out. ANd honestly, it's none of your business anyway.
I can't remember where I saw this, but it was "lying liars lie" and you know what? Bossy people are bossy. And bossy people think they know what's best.
Unfortunately, as the Mom of her family, she does get to be the boss of things in her house. So the way for you to avoid being bossed is not to put yourself in a position of being "the employee" with her as "the boss". So stop working for her. You get to be the fun Gma who plays with the kids. YIPPEE!
Now, if she starts being bossy to you for other things, you can always answer with humour: "you're not my real mom!" or "you're not the boss of me!" If you say it funny, what can she say?
It sounds like her questions are the kind that poke your attention in on yourself and trip you up - is that right? That's how it might affect me.
Maybe every time she asks 'why', answer with "Why do you ask?" and put the attention back on her. She'll have to think it through and explain it.
Quote from: Scoop on November 10, 2011, 07:26:06 AM
Q: "Why are the eggs still out"
A: Oh, I got distracted after breakfast.
or
A: They've only been out for 10 minutes or so, I was going to put them away after breakfast.
or
A: Yeah, we kind of got carried away after making the muffins, here, let me put them away.
Q: "why did you dress gs that way"
A: I thought it was cute!
or
A: We weren't going out anywhere today, so I figured I'd let him be comfy. I was going to dress him better (warmly, whatever) if we decided to go out.
Q: "why did you wash that load with the wrong soap"
A: I just used the one on the shelf.
or
A: Which soap do you prefer?
(Or better yet, why are you doing laundry at DIL's? - You should probably stop that. My Mom does some laundry for us but I wouldn't want my MIL to.)
As for the questions to your son:
"why are you so late from work?"
Maybe, he was supposed to be home early, because HIS parents were visiting. Again, I wouldn't want my IL's visiting while my DH went to work. We just don't have that kind of relationship.
"why are you going on that trip for work?"
"why didn't you feed the dog?"
I find Scoop's answers too submissive. I'd like to take a crack at the answer category too.
Q: "Why are the eggs still out"
A: We're waiting for a hen to babysit them.
Q: "why did you dress gs that way"
A: Did you buy her that outfit?
Q: "why did you wash that load with the wrong soap"
A: I'll leave it for you next time.
Q: "why are you so late from work?"
A: I was schmoozing with the boss.
Q: "why are you going on that trip for work?"
A: The pay and benefits are good.
Q: "why didn't you feed the dog?"
A: He asked for steak. We don't have any.
Is DIL bossing you around at your house (like mine does) or at her house?
I'm having a hard time spotting the problem with the questions DIL is posing. I had to stay home once for a few months due to health reasons. When DH would get home late, without calling to let me know, I would always be grumpy with him (especially if dinner was cold when he got home) and would ask him why. I also hate when he has to travel for work and often ask him why he's going on a trip and if its possible to do it over a video conference (sometimes they do that). And when we had a cat, sometimes I'd be gone all day come home and ask why he didnt feed it.
The other one's don't seem rude either...if they were more 'why did you dress DS that way what the heck were you thinking GEEZ!' that would be rude. But getting asked questions doesn't make your son a wimp. And if it's not bothering him, why let it bother you? Clearly he's not sweating the small stuff.
I don't think the questions that grandma gave as examples are bad in themselves but I would be willing to bet it was just her examples that this occurs constantly. Constant questions that could be considered criticizing in nature? If its constant and about every little thing that occurs, I can see where it wears you down and makes you feel like everything you do is scrutinized?
Just a guess on my end because my Ex Mil was like that. Always questioning every little thing I did with the boys, house, work, etc. and after a while, it gets old as it became obvious it wasn't questions being asked out of concern, but criticism that she thought she could do everything better and I didn't know what I was doing.
I think you have three choices, ignore it, a serious talk or deflection with humor as the others suggested. I also agree it should only be about the things she is directing at you, nothing to do with DS. If he will not do anything about it, then that's a choice he is making and you have to stay out of it. You don't have to like it when you hear it and see it, but you can't comment on it.
I'm hip to the fact that it could be the tone or it could be CONSTANT questioning. But then, my question would be: Why are you doing these things that DIL questions?
Eggs out - were you cooking in 'her' kitchen? If she doesn't like it, stop cooking.
GS clothes - did you pick them and dress him? If she doesn't like it, stop 'helping'
laundry - are you doing their laundry? If she doesn't like it, stop 'helping'
Now, if this is in YOUR house and she's questioning why YOUR eggs are out, and why you're doing YOUR OWN laundry with the "wrong" soap - that's a totally different story and you can feel free to be as cheeky as you want.
My Aunt goes to visit my cousin and his wife, and really, she just TAKES OVER. Don't get me wrong, I love her like a second mother, but I could NOT handle having her as my MIL. My Aunt is SO LUCKY that her DIL is really laid back and doesn't mind how intrusive my Aunt is. So maybe it's a question of personalities?
QuoteSo....she has a sudden temper, questions nearly everything, "Why are the eggs still out"; "why did you dress gs that way" ; "why did you wash that load with the wrong soap"......... now that's to dh and me.
I'm sorry I cannot recall, do you live in her house? Does she stay in yours?
I ask because I wouldn't want any guests in my eggs, dressing my children, or touching my washing machine.
I agree we need the dynamics of the situation. Because the other side is that DIL could insist that grandma be in charge of breakfast when she stays over, that grandma was babysitting (because they asked her to) and when she arrived, questioned the outfit and maybe grandma babysat and GS soiled his clothes and she was trying to wash them before the stains set in, thus the new outfit?
There could be so many scenarios.
By the way, just for the record, I also hate the word Why used in the way your DIL does. When you're in close quarters with someone, it is an extra irritating way of them saying something's wrong. It may be "indirect" but it feels worse, it feels very passive aggressive to me. I know exactly two men who used that kind of "why" with their partners. "Why are there toys all over the floor? Why didn't you answer the phone at 2 o'clock? Why isn't dinner ready?" FWIW, both men were control freaks and their partners have since left them.
That being said, I also have trouble with the concept of it being "controlling" when it comes to someone who is in in deed and in fact control of what they're responsible for. Such as the state of their home and decisions for their children. I remember when my own MIL told me I was controlling about our wedding. DH explained the accusation was made because I didn't give to her the control that she wanted over parts of it (no she wasn't funding it). I actually walked around for a few days trying to grasp how me wanting to buy pretty flowers instead of me buying the reusable green leafy plants she suggested, made me "controlling."
I've read that control is usually someone's way of easing their own anxiety. If your DIL has anxiety if things aren't where she expects them to be, it could come out that way. She might like things a certain way, because it gives her comfort. Predicatability makes her feel secure. She encouters something unexpected in an area, and it might feel like a tiny panic. If you don't have this kind of need, her reaction wouldn't make much sense. Considering her family background, this might make sense for her?
IMO, the tone DIL uses can influence this a lot. It may not be controlling but in context of someone saying/questioning with an attitude, I can see where it would come across as controlling. So context matters a lot here.
Even if she is just curious, IMO, I would find it just plain annoying. But that's my personality, constant questioning doesn't sit well with me. It's one thing to ask "did you feed the dog?" b/c she wants to know if it's something she needs to do or needs to get done. It's another thing entirely to ask "why" constantly. There's nothing IMO productive with constant "why" questions. Some people just do things differently and I think most people would be annoyed to constantly have to answer why they did something, in a way they did and why they did it lol.
One more thing! Could it be a habit of the DIL's to ask "why" questions instead of saying (for example) "It's too cold for GS to wear shorts" or "I really worry about salmonella, so it's important to me for the eggs to be put away".
My DH does something like this. He'll say "Are you going to do xxx?" instead of "Can you do xxx?" It sounds SO SNOTTY to me! It caused some strife between us, but in the end, we worked it out. Since he can't seem to break the habit (and I think everyone knows how hard that is), I've had to learn not to take offense to it. But I do sometimes say "I think what you MEANT to say was "can you do xxxx?" and then he'll get all gooey and say "Oh my beloved, could you pretty please do xxx?" and we laugh. But that's us.
lol! that's cute scoop I like that.
My DH, sometimes on our way home from work will say 'What's for dinner?'
I used to get SO angry about that. We both work the same amount of hours and we commute together. He knows I have no clue what is for dinner, and the implication was (truly was, not just in my head was) what am I making for dinner.
DH loves my cooking to pieces. Makes him smile from ear to ear when I cook. Smacks his fingers and says 'thank you so much for that delicious meal my love!'. Way over the top but he loves it.
I hate coming home after a long day and making a meal. So these comments just annoyed the heck out of me. Again, I learned to not get angry when he said this - he's not some macho man who never cooks - he's simply hoping (almost puppy like) that I'll be cooking that night.
I'm still curious - in whose house is all this questioning taking place, and by whom?
Wow! I'm so happy to see so many replies! I can't see that other MILs or DILs are replying as having the same problems so maybe it's my age (I was always way too compliant..... and I know the younger generation, for the most part, are more assertive which is good.)
Some one said: "I agree we need the dynamics of the situation. Because the other side is that DIL could insist that grandma be in charge of breakfast when she stays over, that grandma was babysitting (because they asked her to) and when she arrived, questioned the outfit."
(Early on we asked if dil wants us to get up w gc, do breakfast for gc, babysit...... answer was definitely! They do trust us and this lets them sleep in and spend time w the smaller baby.) However, we still get the questions..... we give a blow by blow of what we fixed, how much is eaten, etc., before the questioning....
The questioning happens at their house and at ours.... more at theirs, bc of course it's assumed I know how to do my own laundry! (I have been "instructed" several times as to how to use their washer/what kind of soap and I just go along w it as though I am the village idiot!) I try to have a sense of humor about it as someone suggests, but dil doesn't get it...... irony and such are lost on her.
At our house, dil does help w cooking and cleaning up, which I really appreciate; I try to have the kids' and her favorites on hand; she isn't as bossy at our house (seems to relax more at our house and I do love it that she and ds can relax at our house) but does go through the fridge and pulls out things to throw away (near expiration date) as she does that at her own family's house. Now I do that before she comes as it's a real problem with her. (She also has some germ issues which I do get told about, like don't use the kitchen sink although I scrub it out..... )
If these were just day visits, it would be different; we now stay just 1 or 2 nights, are asked to babysit which we enjoy a lot. When we stay so long, though, it is hard not to ask if we can help w cleaning/laundry, etc., as it's always behind and makes dil frantic that it isn't done. We always ask before we do anything, even changing the baby. We try not to make her feel like we are criticizing her housekeeping and she thanks us profusely for everything we do.
I don't want to overstep at her house; I didn't ever cook meals, waiting for her menu plans (she is great about cooking while we are there) before I start helping; I ask for every instruction; then I learned that she loves to have another relative or me to go ahead and plan the meal, fix it, clean it up, as it gets so hectic when her dh comes home w the kids/she loves it if dh and I go ahead w the meal planning/fixing. I also ask about every load of laundry I help with; usually she asks me to help so I don't feel I'm overstepping; I waited a long time before volunteering. When things are so hectic w kids and activities, we feel lazy sitting around; we play w the gc but if we do some of the chores it frees them up to play w the kids....
The outfits; I don't dress the little girl unless I'm asked to and ask what to dress her in, as it's important to dil; it's when we are babysitting and we choose an outfit ourselves, if the blues don't match, and we are going out for burgers, that's when it happens.... as far as FB, I don't post any pics or comments of gc bc I got criticized for posting a less flattering pic (I thought it was fine), so I just don't go there......
As for a heart-to-heart, telling of my feelings, I tried that in a "I feel like" on an issue not related to the gc, as the books instruct on a minor issue. Did not work! Dil got very defensive and angry and I just dropped it. When ds has had enough, he retorts and she drops it, but with dh and me, we pretty much drop things......
I'll try some of the tips mentioned here. I know what goes on it a family isn't my business, just the way I'm treated..... I know she has some issues from childhood of insecurity and wants perfection and gets frustrated, so I try to remember sometimes it's not me, it's blowing off steam from other frustrations.....
(The criticisms of ds I know to drop; it's hard to watch or hear, but leaving the room/ignoring it is the only way; I stick up for dil on minor issues, too....)
Anyone else have this "walking on eggshells" issue? (BTW, time together is hard; getting out for a walk or an outing w/o dil sometimes is good.)
Oh man! JAOG you totally stepped on a sore nerve
I will never understand the "walking on eggshells" comment. To me, everyone has to act differently depending on their "audience". We act different if we're at home, if we're at church, if we're at the opera, or at work. We know the quirks of the people around us and we try to accommodate them as much as possible.
When I go to my MIL's, I make the bed, to her specifications, every day. If I don't, she'll go in and make it (or re-make it) and sigh over it. Am I walking on eggshells over it? No, in MIL's house, I follow MIL's rules.
Although I hate the expression "that's the way she is" for either DIL's or MIL's, I think in this case, you'd be better of practicing acceptance. Because the saying is "If you can't practice acceptance, then you practice avoidance" and I don't think your relationship is that far gone.
The thing is, if you had a friend who was vegetarian, or who didn't eat pork, you wouldn't try and force meat or pork on them. You would be accommodating and you would be proud of it (as well you should be). So with DIL, you have to take into account that she's worried about germs and she REALLY cares what the kids look like.
I have a funny story for you, RE: worrying about how much was eaten ect. Since DD was a baby (she's 7 now), I've fretted about her poop (she has problems, not big problems, but she's not allowed to eat cheese, rice and bananas in the same day!). It came as a COMPLETE SHOCK to me when it occurred to me that eventually I won't KNOW when or if she poops. OH MY! Who's going to keep track? ;D SO maybe your DIL is focussed on the eating part (instead of the elimination part!) and she hasn't gotten to the point where she realizes that she's not in charge of what/how much they eat.
For the clothes issues, I would say that you probably don't know your DIL deeply enough to figure out her triggers. One of my best friends lives in a rougher part of town and she's HORRIFIED that her neighbours will think she's on welfare, so she insists that her children are well dressed. For my Mom, her Mother died when she was young, and there was a HUGE emphasis from my Gpa that Mom and Aunt were NOT to look like little orphans, so they were always well dressed. And that colours how my Mom thinks my DD should be dressed (NOT like a little orphan). Except, I don't fight with DD over what she wears (mostly). So, sometimes, she looks 'different'.
If I were you, I would continue with what you're doing (because it sounds like you're doing fine) and try and change the way you think about it. Or give up the things that bug you the most (the laundry) and focus on the things she appreciates the most (dinners).
Keep up the good work and keep coming back here to vent! We'll listen and hopefully send you back in the ring feeling better!
Quote from: justanoldgrandma on November 11, 2011, 05:52:39 AM
Anyone else have this "walking on eggshells" issue? (BTW, time together is hard; getting out for a walk or an outing w/o dil sometimes is good.)
Hey Just-
I had this issue but unfortunately, I cracked all the eggshells by tromping around with my heavy old self. DIL was always hard for me to access and I spent my time trying to figure out how to relate to her. I ended up asking too many questions and she ordered me to stop talking to her, to leave her alone and to find something else to do with my time.
I think you're in an annoying situation, but over all you are blessed many times over with a relationship with DS, GKs and DIL. I think if I had it as good as you do, I would just keep things simple and shrug off what you can. Be thankful that you aren't all living in Somolia or somewhere where DIL wouldn't have the luxury of getting annoyed about blues matching.
Yep, dil does have the perfectionistic mode about her appearance and that of her children. I think from childhood she desired perfection in looks and clothes, etc. It has to be hard to have everything perfect for the kids. I guess that's why we help out so much to ease that anxiety...... (all her friends' kids look great, too.....) I do think there's a lot in her background that bred insecurity although it doesn't show; having control makes her feel more secure. I know to be chatty kathy around her as it is irritating to her; sometimes she can confide frustrations in me (and she gets frustrated when she can't control the behavior of her family and friends and their kids.....)
I know I can't change dil; it's changing my attitude. Ignore what I can and not let the rest get to me; it's hard bc I have that desire to please which probably comes from being raised that way and never being the rebellious type. (conservative acting family, everyone gets along, etc.) And I was raised to be seen, not heard, etc. Maybe in this case it's for the best bc a blow up on my part would ruin it all.
And I am fortunate to have the relationship I do have w the family which isn't talking on the phone close but still welcome in the house and to babysit which is huge, I know.
I know developing some late-blooming self-esteem would be good for me in this case and in other cases, bc a lot of people could blow it all off. As it is, it takes a couple of days to start feeling relaxed and good about myself again after a visit........
Quote from: justanoldgrandma on November 11, 2011, 07:14:37 AM
As it is, it takes a couple of days to start feeling relaxed and good about myself again after a visit........
Oh, I missed this part before - definitely - it sounds like your DIL gets in knots about the details. I've known people who are
very uncomfortable unless things are in a certain order. Don't take her tension personally. She has to be a little uncomfortable in her skin if she puts these things before good relations with loved ones, imo. Let her be uncomfortable but you don't have to take on that burden.
QuoteAnyone else have this "walking on eggshells" issue?
This is a "red flag" statement. One will see this statement often in those who work or interact with people who suffer from personality disorders. I'm not saying this is the issue with your DiL; just be aware that maybe ...
There's a book called "Stop Walking on Eggshells" - you might wish to google the title to see if this phrase really fits your situation. I sure hope not ...
jdtm, I was just about to say that! I liked that book a lot.
Justanoldgrandma, I think it's great you understand about her background -- I can see why she is controlling with a childhood like that. I also agree with Scoop that we do have to change for our audience and it's a part of life to monitor how we are with each individual.
However, I think since it upsets you, than something needs to be done. Perhaps reading the book jdtm suggested, lots of good advice in there. And I'm glad you're taking the tips posters offered here.
My DS And DIL, in their 30's, are trying very hard to do everything right. I think maybe they go overboard a bit but I keep my mouth shut. For instance, the food is very controlled, which I understand to an extent. I almost got in big trouble when I said I would take the GC to McDonalds when I was babysitting. You would have thought I was suggesting to give them poison, maybe in their eyes I was. I see what seems many errors in their ways, but I know their heart is in the right place so I go along. I think I was the same way at their age, thought I knew what I was doing. Only hindsight is 20/20.
Scoop, I understand what you mean about walking on eggshells. I agree that our behavior is different with others all the time, so why do we have a problem "watching it" with our DILs?
For me, the problem is that now I'm also "watching it" around DS, with whom I used to have a fun, open, worry-free relationship. I can't be myself w/DS when DIL is there because she is so critical. Her FOO has not had to adjust similarly to accomodate DS, because he doesn't criticize them.
So in essence, DS is more of an aquaintance to us now, while DIL is still a member of her FOO. I was not prepared for this.
justanoldgrandma, I forgot to mention to you above when you said you didn't see anyone on the board having these problems. I do with MIL/SIL. They question every move everyone makes. I know how you feel.
Quote from: Pen on November 11, 2011, 02:16:05 PM
So in essence, DS is more of an aquaintance to us now, while DIL is still a member of her FOO. I was not prepared for this.
I get this. I'm starting to think of DS as my daughter-in-law's husband more than as my own dear son.
Right there with you. When DIL's have problems with their husband's family it's easy to say "let him deal with his people" what in the world do we do when during every interaction with our DIL she looks bored, and miserable. DS jumps in to the point of awkwardness to try and bridge the gap but it is so obvious she just doesn't want to be around us and resents every minute she has to be. She even seems to resent being around DS. However they spend every week-end and all holidays with her FOO, and they love DS because he's a personable nice guy. What I would give for a DIL that made one tiny bit of an effort! I know the worst thing I can do right now is get angry and show it, but boy keeping this relationship on the positive side is exhausting, when all I WANT to do is look her right in the eye and say "What is your problem!" :o
I totally get this one from a poster: "However they spend every week-end and all holidays with her FOO, and they love DS because he's a personable nice guy." I admit freely my jealousy bc dil's FOO is so huge w constant celebrations and ours is so small with little going on; however, our house is the "b and b" house w us pampering ds and family, quiet so the babies can sleep and ds and dil, too...... we don't even try to compete; it's two different worlds. I have heard dil say she gets tired of so many people around at her FOO, noise, (probably less attention given to her) so we feel good that our place is the "spoiling" place although of course we give lots fewer gifts (lots fewer relatives.)
Our ds is somewhat a Stepford Husband/Father..... he totally goes along w dil's opinions, etc., which is fine, guess it's the way now (my dh is totally and always was his own man, more the boss.) It does hurt for him not to say something when we get criticized; he's oblivious bc he gets criticized himself. Yep, he's dil's husband, not our ds so much; dh has always been loyal to his FOO instead of being exclusively in his new one. Times have changed?
Oh, on dil having borderline behavior disorder; she probably does; need to read more on that...... I talked to a counselor for several sessions about her snappishness, controlling ways, ultra concerned w her looks which carries on to her children..... Dr. Jekyl behavior; counselor said she is narcissistic....(sp); doesn't help when ds has always concentrated on good looking, slim women (now only his dw, of course; he's faithful, her friends and family tell her how lovely she is.....
Maybe the narcissism and bbd? go hand in hand at times? (She is good at taking care of children and has a moral compass, religious, just not in tuned to others' feelings, always right about everything.....)
Well, before you start assigning her a mental illness, maybe just consider you are two different people who don't agree. Not liking how your MIL dresses your children probably isn't in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (or at least shouldn't be, imo.)
Seriously, if she is good with her children, has a moral compass, why not let it end there? Just accept who she is and stop expecting her to act differently. I have to repeat, many of us would swap places with you in a minute - you have a working relationship with your son and his family.
QuoteOh, on dil having borderline behavior disorder; she probably does
Hmm - what's the saying "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck; it probably is a duck". Even if your DIL is not BPD, there are lots of excellent ways, ideas and methods that you can learn from nons who interact with personality disordered people to better help you to interact and communicate with your daughter-in-law (and other family members too). Lots and lots of information on the internet re this topic ....
But as Doe mentioned, you are lucky as you still have a working relationship with your family. I lost mine for several years (a divorce and time is helping to heal this wound but it takes a long time - the relationship will be patched but never seamless as it once was). But, if your relationship with your son is in jeopardy, then finding advice on how to deal with difficult or self-centered people can help this situation. There is no easy solution, is there?
Sometimes its just a case of two women in close contact with totally different ways of doing things.
After living with my DIL for five months , I could have screamed at some of the things she did in the house ,
but I didn't ! :-X Peace must be held at all times ! lol....
My nervous twitch has now gone completely , and hopefully my heart will settle down too .
We are really unaware of what certain situations do to our health , and of how much stress we are under .
We MIL's do try our hardest to '' get along '' , much more than our DIL's are aware of , well in my case anyway .
Anything I did with my GD was with her mom's approval , including food , bath , walks , clothes you name it
I gained approval first .Which can be strain in itself ,not being able to be spontaneous .
A week has now gone by , and my DIL has been in touch via text , so I'm hopeful of our relationship
growing into a friendship .That's all I ever wanted .
LL, I'm glad to hear DIL is contacting you. I know it must have been hard to run everything past her and to keep quiet about things that bothered you, but it appears to have paid off. Good job!
Quote from: Doe on November 12, 2011, 06:16:17 AM
Just accept who she is and stop expecting her to act differently. I have to repeat, many of us would swap places with you in a minute - you have a working relationship with your son and his family.
I have to say something here; I have accepted dil as she is since the day ds introduced us, accepting her changeable behavior and advice and criticism and rules (I was told that all holidays and every other weekend would be with her FOO for the rest of her life)....we were surprised at this declaration and couldn't speak but have accepted this bc we don't want to lose the family. (We have one other child that we see rarely bc of distance; a small family; we try to concentrate on each other and on our activities.)
When I have confided in another grandmother for being yelled at, seriously yelled at, for not writing down when a diaper was changed, she said, well, you weren't assertive enough at the beginning. No, I was blindsided, never believing that ds would marry a woman would would be bossy and critical (I don't know how many times I leave the room so as not to reveal tears in my eyes or leave to take a walk so as not to retort in anger)......
The reason we still have access to ds, dil, and gc is bc, yes, fortunate in that there hasn't been a divorce and that dil has been a good mother..... but also that dh and I just take the verbal assaults, never knowing when they will come.
Her own mother, father, her and my dhs, and even friends have remarked on her unpredictable behavior; sweet one moment, snapping at them the next. She does complain to me when her own family and friends displease her.
She has been allowed to be the controller is all I can figure. However, outsiders, like plumbers, etc., refuse to accept her orders and rudeness to them and she is totally insulted by their noncompliance.
I know you other mils have done nothing to be "cut off" from your dils and I am lucky to have a dil that isn't abusive to her children (can be snappy, but not abusive to them; she does love them); I can only imagine how hard it is to lose access to children/gc. I'm just saying it isn't as simple as a suggestion that this or that outfit be changed, that the laundry soap be Tide Clear, that I not post a picture deemed unflattering on FB (I have unsubscribed from FB so as not to offend..... )
I'm saying that in order to have access to the family I have to control my feelings, agree, not be myself, not express an opinion that she'd disagree with. It's simply a matter of control and power and it's totally on her side. Just when I start to relax in her presence, a sharp remark/criticism will occur.....(BTW, although I have no say over this, it can't be good for her children to grow up not knowing when an outburst will occur..... ds, either, but we keep out of it.)
This is not just me; dh has said many times he feels unwanted, cold, in her house; has nearly left; yet she can be appreciative, thoughtful at times, and of course we love our son and gc dearly. We love dil bc she is the wife of our son and of course has good qualities; why she is so controlling/impulsive in her speech/demanding...... environmental, I can see that; I can't diagnose her behavior. Just the results.
I have had a demanding career for 39 years and do know how to deal with people and am not a wimp. Since ds and dil started planning marriage and the rules were set, I have had anxiety attacks, sleepless nights, and went to the counselor to see how to handle this situation who has dealt with many controllers in her practice and it's simply ignore what I can, realize it's not my problem, that the remarks are thrown at others, and to explain briefly when "scolded" and to go on.....
There are times when it's so demoralizing that after a visit (we keep it short) I feel so horrible and depressed.....yet there seems to be no solution if I want to continue seeing my family. The Serenity Prayer is my constant.
I wanted to say all this bc of course I know many of you would trade with me in a heartbeat; however, we aren't in a contest to see who has it worse. We all are suffering in our own ways. I think the way dh and I and others have been treated has been trivialized and although I know I can't change dil or interfere in ds's home life, it is a conundrum in every way.
I understand your hurt and frustration, JAOGM. Your pain is no easier to bear than anyone else's and shouldn't be trivialized.
Although many of us have similar situations to others here, in truth our situations are uniquely our own.
Old grandma : I can understand you wanting to keep in the good books to see your gc , but the treatment you are undergoing sounds like borderline abuse ! Can't you see what its doing to your health ? I know I tow the line to some extent but I would never put up with anything so disrespectful .She continues to treat everyone this way because they allow it . I know everyones situation is different , but I refuse to be a doormat . I suppose its hard to change since you have accepted this behaviour from day one , but think of your own self worth and try not to be walked on . Sending hugs .
I would call it abuse, myself, LL. Dil is manipulative; just when I and dh (and her family has had some rows also, calling her Queen Bee ((in convos to me)) and that there would be hell to pay if things don't go her way,) she'll be suddenly sweet as can be. Sometimes ultra considerate; I know ds is in love with her and is so busy w work and also at home that he just takes the talk until he retorts and she gets quiet. Her outbursts are sudden and then over; probably a way of dealing with stress.
From the beginning my dh didn't see what was happening and told me not to overstep, to not say this or that..... gradually he has learned her personality and is also unhappy with her "spoiled brat" behavior. He simply walks off and ignores it, sometimes retorts. DS was so happy in love that I just chalked it all up to "modern girls" but I know modern girls aren't that way, at all. My sil in particular has seen her bossiness but she is blunt yet doesn't worry about losing her gc; she is so close to her daughters; our ds wouldn't disown us after a "row" but I'm sure we'd see a lot less of him and gc..... first time I really wish I had daughters!
I did call her on her accusing me of being morbid when I mentioned someone's death; we can't discuss anything "unpleasant" as she maintains a princess type mentality; she didn't back down and neither did I. Although it wasn't a victory, I felt better at not staying quiet. I also told ds we were lonely at Christmas and we have had more time since that conversation.
It's worse at this time of the year, knowing dh and I aren't considered important enough to be with at Christmas, ever, ever; that ds goes willingly to dil's FOO for their big traditional celebrations; I am trying to enlarge my circle of friends/church...... btw, the other son has had a hellish marriage that is ending and this of course added to my stress. I mainly talked w counselor about his situation. He is much happier now and that's a relief; I was so consumed by that I mainly ignored this dil's behavior.
Yes, I was raised to be quiet, never talk back; was criticized....... throughout my adulthood I've become less quiet and want more enjoyment out of life. My job required a lot of authority; I was quite assertive..... since retirement I've become too vested in the sons and gc.
So.... I've googled books on "controlling people," etc....... any more help on how to handle being around dil? (Like I said, the only people ((after she gets to know them and charm them)) that don't take her bossiness are workmen, some day care workers, people who don't care if she blows up at them.
Quoteand I am lucky to have a dil that isn't abusive to her children (can be snappy, but not abusive to them; she does love them)
Be really careful - I too believed our ex-DIL loved her children and was not abusive but one day when she thought no one was looking ...... And, degrading another person in front of the children is abusive behaviour - what is she teaching her children? When our DIL finally left her husband, she also abandoned her children. From what you have written, I don't trust your DIL.
I hate what happened to your gc, jdtm; it has to be horrible to see such happenings. Dil was raised to be a "good girl," never physical in anger, always verbally.....and this group of mothers never, ever believe in spanking; but already I've seen her snap at older child for minor accidents, all the while spoiling her, giving her everything; child is carbon copy of mother..... but with ds's sweetness and consideration, thank goodness. Dil has some of these good qualities, too, when not harried.?
I opened my mouth for the first time and told ds he needed to get a handle on gd's tantrums; he was angry w me but I've noticed he's gotten stricter..... of course, this is a different issue, the spoiling, which I try not to get into again. How they raise the kids is their business so long as it doesn't get as you described; I wish dil would get some help herself bc her temper results, I think, from perfectionism and just having her way.....
In regard to my self-esteem, I need something like role playing with someone who understands this type of controlling person; btw, my anxiety is lessened since OS's ordeal is over; now I think I'm just angry with myself...... wanting to fire back, have a talk with ds or dil (which I've seen isn't going to happen)....... I have told dh I can't be with dil for long periods of time; he thinks I'm exaggerating bc he is usually doing outside work while I'm with dil....... but he does get it some now, finally!
justanoldgrandma, what about seeing a counselor to role play with? Or a good friend who gets it?
I recommend reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells" not b/c I think your DIL has a personality disorder but rather it is a really good book and addresses situations just like yours. Lots of advice and tips. Even though the book is directed towards dealing with those who have bpd I think it can help in any relationship with a difficult person.
I can adapt to social etiquette in settings, but I'm still myself, just watch some "p's and q's" that I may be more laxed with in different settings. I don't "walk on eggshells" around anyone. They accept me for who I am, or they don't. I can accomodate needs and be very giving to someone's preferences, but if it's only one side always bending over backwards to understand and accomodate, it's a problem. You either decide to do everything "their" way, or you decide to be helpful, giving and do your best to accomodate their wishes, but with a dose of yourself and see if there are consequenses. If there is, then you have choices, just like she does.
I just saw a show on TV where a boss asked one of his employees one of those weird why questions. "Why are you wearing that?"
I like the employee's reply: He hesitated then said, "I don't know the right answer to that question."
Strictly for the purpose of this conversation and in the spirit of education, (and certainly not as a diagnosis), it might be interesting to check out descriptions of obsessive compulsive personality disorder. OCPD is related to its much more famous cousin, OCD. They both are ways people who have anxieties try to find relief through ritual and order. When the ritual behavior (counting, checking, washing, hoarding, doubting) becomes obsessive, it can interfere with relationships and performance.
My DIL jokes about her and her family's OCD tendencies. As a fairly relaxed housekeeper I don't find it so amusing, actually...and I do walk on eggshells/modify my relaxed behavior because if DIL doesn't want to be around us we see less of DS.
Fun Facts FYI, the difference between the idioms "walking on eggshells" and "walking on eggs" is that the former refers to not wanting to upset someone, and the latter refers to being in a precarious position. I just found that out.
Quote from: Pen on November 13, 2011, 03:51:16 PM
My DIL jokes about her and her family's OCD tendencies. As a fairly relaxed housekeeper I don't find it so amusing, actually...and I do walk on eggshells/modify my relaxed behavior because if DIL doesn't want to be around us we see less of DS.
Fun Facts FYI, the difference between the idioms "walking on eggshells" and "walking on eggs" is that the former refers to not wanting to upset someone, and the latter refers to being in a precarious position. I just found that out.
Pen, your first paragraph explains my "precarious" position...... if DIL becomes angry with us, (in contradicting her, trying to tell her I get upset with such and such, retorting as ds does), the less we will see around DS and gc. We see little of them now bc of ds's work and the family going to dil's FOO and out w her friends (now ds's friends, too); there's little opportunity for us to see them......
I've seen her cut people out of her life and out of ds's and gc's. She sees less of two of her oldest gf's bc their children are really messy and "out of control"; she just makes excuses not to see them. With a new member of her FOO through marriage, the new member blew up at the FOO over feeling laughed at; the FOO was willing to cut her out unless she apologized which she didn't; things were tense for a long time; the FOO were sure that the son would side with them, not w his wife....... he sided with his wife...... the FOO was willing to never see the new IL, didn't like her anyway, was taking son away from the FOO by marriage.
So the FOO is so close they really don't care if "outsiders" agree with them or not; dil has followed that. on the ocd, dil is much more into looks, clothes, hair, than the others in her FOO; she isn't OCD except in her appearance and of her gc.......
I just know that I need assertiveness, more self-esteem, etc....... hopefully dil will realize I can't be "yelled at." And I need some good comebacks; when I do come up with one, she does look amazed and I feel better; (she doesn't have a lot of sense of humor); when I laugh at things it makes her mad; but that's okay! She did tell OS's friend that OS and friend needed to spend a weekend with us (to make up for dil and family being at FOO's); the friend said, no, have other plans. DIL was so frustrated and amazed! It's so rare that someone says no to her....... she doesn't like it, but it needs to be said!
You got repremanded for not writting down when the nappies were changed?
Don't they remember if the babe pooped that day or not without making a record of it,
or is this for posterity? LOL. Somehow this thing about writing downthe nappie schedule says it all.
On another point,
I was really sad about what happened to your grandaughter Jtdm, so so difficult a situation and to have to stand by and not know how to protect the little ones.
I'm glad to read, JustGrandma, your Dil seems not to have that sort of trouble, nevertheless, I think your GC's must feel ignored much of the time. They are fortunate to have many grandparents and family around to make up for that.
Poor Dil, what an awful prison she lives within herself, all those rules!!! Yikes! It would make me a nervous wreck to be around her, you are doing so well.
My daughter was exactly the same way. I finally stood up for myself and told her she was not going to control me any longer. She has not spoken to me in months (which is wonderful) but she also will not let me see my only grandson who just turned one year old.
You have to decide if the relationship is worth keeping. It sounds like everyone else just accepts her just to stay in touch with her. If you decide to keep putting up with it, you just might end up confused, hurt and upset if you cannot remind yourself that it is her with the problem and not you.
I think that if you are in the DIL/Son's home and DIL asks a question - "why are the eggs still out?" Simply answer her - I haven't put them away yet or I don't know or whatever. If she's in your house - then just say "because". Same with all the other questions. It sounds like you are at her home - and I don't know how often as you've said that you see her more than DH. Why are you there so often? Are you there to help and if so, is it asked or requested for by the DIL? If not, maybe she finds it annoying that you are in her home washing/ drying clothes, changing daughter, cooking breakfast.
I think you understand that you are quite different than she is. But, why do you assume that your way is the correct way? I see my own SIL/MIL be passive and I am more assertive - I don't find that to be wrong - to each his own! Some people are meant to be passive and some not - As for the issues of how she behaves towards her family and towards your son - in my opinion, that's really just between them.
It is very easy to judge people based on simple things - but you can't possibly know the entire dynamic between your son and his wife and family. Maybe, like someone said, when she asked why he was late - there was a part of her that was worried about him. My DH called me (we work together and I had left already) and said he was close did I want him to pick up my son at after school. I said I was closer and I'd see him at home. But, he decided to stop off at a store close by to look around. When he didn't come home - I started to worry. I can easily see my MIL not knowing those details and just hearing - where were you?
Please try and remember that even in your own relationship, your DIL might see it as odd or bad. She might think that because of your personality of being passive that your DH - her FIL takes advantage of you. Would you want her to judge him and you that way?
I say that if she's taking advantage of you by asking you to do things and then she is rude with her why questions - then just stop doing them. But, really - they don't seem like that big of a deal to me.
Here's my suggestion.......
For your New Years Resolution tell your DIL that you resolve to charge every single person a $1 fee for you to answer a "Why" question. Choose a different charity every month and you might ask her for her input on which one she wants to donate to........encourage her to ask "Why" questions and ask for the $1 fee on the spot.
"Why are they eggs out?".......because the Food Bank needs your $1
my former MIL used to take out her hearing aid when she didn't like the conversation and leave the room. Worked for her.
Ha ha ha...my Mom does the same thing with hers...turns the volume all the way down!
Yes, Pooh and Keys Girl, it does help to have a sense of humor! I have these "not so big deals" off my chest. Holidays have a way of exaggerating complaints.
These family things are very hard to express in forums w/o sounding ridiculous (in my postings.) Summer, you'd have to be there to get it, to do your best and yet feel; really, complex and too difficult to get into w/o being a "poor me"; I could go on and on to justify, explaining each circumstance and my ill-chosen words, I realize how it all sounds that I am being intolerant; but it's all fine.....it is no big deal; young people can sometimes put things in perspective!
Thanks, ladies; some good advice!
Quote from: summergirl123 on December 01, 2011, 09:24:34 AM
I think that if you are in the DIL/Son's home and DIL asks a question - "why are the eggs still out?" Simply answer her - I haven't put them away yet or I don't know or whatever. If she's in your house - then just say "because". Same with all the other questions. It sounds like you are at her home - and I don't know how often as you've said that you see her more than DH. Why are you there so often? Are you there to help and if so, is it asked or requested for by the DIL? If not, maybe she finds it annoying that you are in her home washing/ drying clothes, changing daughter, cooking breakfast.
I think you understand that you are quite different than she is. But, why do you assume that your way is the correct way? I see my own SIL/MIL be passive and I am more assertive - I don't find that to be wrong - to each his own! Some people are meant to be passive and some not - As for the issues of how she behaves towards her family and towards your son - in my opinion, that's really just between them.
It is very easy to judge people based on simple things - but you can't possibly know the entire dynamic between your son and his wife and family. Maybe, like someone said, when she asked why he was late - there was a part of her that was worried about him. My DH called me (we work together and I had left already) and said he was close did I want him to pick up my son at after school. I said I was closer and I'd see him at home. But, he decided to stop off at a store close by to look around. When he didn't come home - I started to worry. I can easily see my MIL not knowing those details and just hearing - where were you?
Please try and remember that even in your own relationship, your DIL might see it as odd or bad. She might think that because of your personality of being passive that your DH - her FIL takes advantage of you. Would you want her to judge him and you that way?
I say that if she's taking advantage of you by asking you to do things and then she is rude with her why questions - then just stop doing them. But, really - they don't seem like that big of a deal to me." end of quote by Summer.
Summer, wonder if you read all the posts and replies in this thread; things aren't simple as we think they are as dils; I never realized how my dparents and ILs felt about things until I became older. I can remember being a dil; you'll realize how being a mil is someday and I hope it's happy.
Okay, Summer, gotta say. It's not so easy just to say "because" bc someone who is impatient, etc., won't accept that; gotta know why. Wants that answer and now. i am learning how to deal w this. DH is w me when we visit or they visit; he just spends more time w outside chores and w ds and I'm w dil more. We are asked to come help, we never ask ourselves. We are appreciated. They are grateful for any household help we give. They request our help which we honestly want to do bc we were raised to be that way (oldtimers!) and also bc we get to see the family more that way than sitting in the living room watching t.v.
We do not intrude; we ask before doing anything...... yes, I could sit on my butt and play w the gc all the time or go shopping, but if I can help, I do. Most of the time things go fine and when they don't, I have learned to cope. Believe me, we wouldn't do any helping if it is annoying; we know when to back off. We especially back off when the children want their parents; we stay out of discipline and bedtime rituals, etc. Believe me, if I felt I was being annoying in helping, I wouldn't help!
As for the infamous, "why are you late" it's bc supper was ready and ds was in a conference; he couldn't leave yet; it's his job; he told her so on the phone and had told her he would be home at such and such time bc of it that am before work (and he was home when he said he'd be home, just later than usual.) but she was upset and didn't understand why his coworkers couldn't take over. I heard her conversation as I was in the room and also ds's explanation when he came home. We stayed out of it. We knew it was just stress. She knew where he was, why, and when he was coming home. Just wanted to clear that up; it wasn't a safety issue or not knowing where he was/doing.
Ok,, so your sil and mil are passive. People who know me don't think of me as being passive; I'm outgoing and stick up for myself; have learned to. So why don't I tell dil off when questioned? DS and gc. Dils hold the key to these things. DS does negotiate to see us often (thus our being there so often and vice versa) but we don't want family feuds so we give in; and dh and I have an equal marriage; he just doesn't tolerate being questioned and told what to do any more than I do.
Btw, even though my dh is far from being a wimp and I stand up to him also when we disagree, dil admires our marriage and has said so, w/o being asked. Far from my being taken advantage of, I admire my husband for being his own man and also for his consideration for me. We've been married far longer, happily, than nearly anyone our age. It's mutual respect and tolerance and some disagreements! But no domination on either side. Neither of us believes in treating the other rudely. That's why it's such a shock when we hear rude statements made to spouses and to the older generation.
I wonder if your sil and mil are passive w everyone and surely you don't take advantage of that as you are "assertive." I'm sure you are considerate of them and they aren't leery of stepping on toes......
I do hope that you never have a dil problem; it's hard to even think of when you must have a mil and sil who are easy to deal with; hope your children marry into kind, considerate families, also. if not, you'll "get it." Sincerely hope you never do.
No one understands what goes on in a mil's life who is so anxious to please and yet keep her self-esteem and love of the family until..... you walk in her shoes. Hope you never do. it's not easy.
BTW, some of the other responses by other dils impress me that they do understand not wanting to be walking on eggshells; dils nor mils want to be uneasy w their ILs.
Quote from: JudyJudyJudy on November 29, 2011, 07:59:09 PM
My daughter was exactly the same way. I finally stood up for myself and told her she was not going to control me any longer. She has not spoken to me in months (which is wonderful) but she also will not let me see my only grandson who just turned one year old.
You have to decide if the relationship is worth keeping. It sounds like everyone else just accepts her just to stay in touch with her. If you decide to keep putting up with it, you just might end up confused, hurt and upset if you cannot remind yourself that it is her with the problem and not you.
Judy, thanks for summing it all up for me. (I think I'm through with this thread, having read everyone's comments and having gotten some very good hints on how to handle this relationship. I have been leery to holding it all in and exploding, telling dil what you told your dd; (that's why I get help in dealing w this frustration so I don't); but I don't want to lose ds and gc so I am learning how to deal w it (book Walking on Eggshells).....
I'm sorry you haven't seen your gs for so long; this is why mils understand we have to either learn to deal w difficult ILs or go ahead and tell them off.
Sounds like your dd is like some dils who realize they hold the cards; they can control the dm or mil's seeing the gc; I think when the young moms sometimes act this way, they may or may not realize that they do "hold the cards" and do or do not care that hearts are broken when they cut off the gps seeing the gc.
I'm glad you got your say, Judy; I hope your dd will soon realize that she shouldn't deprive you of her company and of her child's; at the same time, that she should not attempt to be controlling of you; it's respect of her dm.
In my situation, ILs family has disagreements, times of not speaking to each other, telling each other off; lots of drama. I'm not used to this! I'm not a pacifist, just not a controller or a drama queen! Our ds has become more considerate of us bc of our lack of demanding and yet a convo w him; dil, too.....
And you're right, Judy, in observing her interactions and manner of speaking/acting w others, including her own FOO, I do see the problem is with her, not with me...... everyone else just accepts her behavior bc they don't think it that strange as she's always been this way and their family is very outspoken also.
With this awareness, I am learning to ignore a lot, use some humor (whether she gets it or not!), walk out of the room, give a look...... it works to help her understand how to treat me and I am gaining in self-respect.
Thanks.
What is "not so big deals" to one person, are huge to another. Everyone has their "not so big deals" that if stood on their own, probably are small stuff, but combined together or with historical behavior, can create big issues.
I get it justanoldgrandma. It's the feeling that no matter what you do to help, or when you're asked to help, it's never good enough and feels like constand criticism. So you tiptoe around, trying to do stuff right, trying your way, their way and end up being made to feel badly in the end no matter which way you pick. No one likes being made to feel that way, no matter what the title (DIL/MIL, etc.)
Thanks, Pooh; I know you get it! And this site has a lot of good hints; especially since I realize it isn't "me"; I can only control my own actions/thoughts! It's gonna be a learning process......
I'm sorry your DIL has hurt your feelings so much. I don't think I can help with that one, but I wanted to share a perspective that may be able to help you regarding the way she behaves toward your DS.
I was thinking about myself and my DH, as well as other couples I know. DH and I love each other very much, and there is no doubt in my mind that we make each other happy and will have a long successful marriage. But, like everyone, we are not perfect individuals. We both have bad habits. When we are comfortable and alone, we both do and say things that others might find obnoxious. Sometimes, for example, I whine for him to bring me things, and he jumps to it. He has bad habits, too, but I can't even think of any right now because I do not let them bother me, but instead love them. We have learned to love everything about each other, including the ugly stuff. If there is something really big or hurtful, we know we can bring it up, and then we have to decide whether one needs to change or the other needs to just accept it. This is why I would never sign up for a reality TV show. Viewers would be able to pick our marriage apart in one episode, taking sides and counting flaws. It's kind of the same thing when someone stays in your home for an extended period of time. You try to be on your best behavior, but eventually you get comfortable and revert to your true self, and others are left to judge.
My point is, maybe in a wierd way, your DS likes your DILs princess (even controlling) behavior. I know there was a time when you knew DS as well as I know my one year old DS, but he is basically a different person now, and his preferences might surprise you. You just have to trust that if DIL is really hurting him, he will be adult enough to handle it on his own. If he isn't changing it, then it must not be bothering him, and you shouldn't let it bother you.
I totally agree phillek. I know my OS has to like DIL's controlling behavior because he's lazy (he will work his butt off but if the gutters need cleaning out....), never liked to make decisions and is a major procrastinator. So I am sure he is happy letting her make all decisions. I'm just hoping someday he realizes that letting her make decisions about who he can be friends with, what family he can see and what he can go do, is not a relationship but a personal dictatorship. To do that though, he will have to step up to the plate and make day-to-day decisions too and not leave it everything on her.
It is so helpful to have this forum to "sound out" our feelings and the various ways we are dealing with things. Every family has their own dynamic but there are some solid things we all agree on. One of them is that we need to be treated with respect. One thing you said, JAOG, is that you hoped DIL will realize you shouldn't be yelled at. Well, unfortunately she probably won't until you say, simply, "Please never yell at me again." Like you mentioned, nobody says no to her. Well, you have that right. I admire you for caring so much and for your posts here.
Oh, thanks for the kind words, Begonia; and you are right; I have started being less apologetic and agreeable and hope to continue to; I'd get no support but scorn if I "started a fight" as the song says, but your simple words suggested are right on; dil would justify her anger and words but the saving thing would be to get up and leave the room before I even hear the rest! I've left the room before after a simple retort or "hmmmm" and it saves an argument and gets the point across! Not into justifying or any of that!
And yes, Phillek, ds is on his own!