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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: Pooh on February 03, 2011, 01:58:39 PM

Title: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 03, 2011, 01:58:39 PM
Ok, so we have all spoken about how we know we did or do some things wrong with our DILS.  But it's scattered throughout topics and also mixed in with our stories.  So confession time.  I am going to flat out list the things I know I did wrong and hope others will too.  It might help the other MILs, and also be good for the DILs here to see we do recognize our faults.  It doesn't mean what we said or did was untrue, or that we may not have had good intentions, just that we didn't handle it correctly.

1.  I spoke badly about her to my DS while he was a teenager and they were dating about several things she was doing.  I said she had a bad attitude and was very selfish.  He told her but I should have kept it to myself.

2.  I tried talking to her Mother to get some insight on how to get along with future DIL.  She told her, but I should have never involved her Mother.

3.  I was mad at my DS for switching Colleges his Senior year, giving up a full-paid scholarship, to stay home with her and made comments about how he needed to go to a College for the education and opportunities, and not pick a different one because she attended it.  He told her.

4.  After he had attended College two years, he said he wanted to get married.  I told him they should wait until they were both done, because it would be easier to start their life with school behind them and no bills.  He told her and I should have kept my opinions to myself.

5.  I complained to my DH all the time about her and her attitude.  After we divorced, he told her everything I said.

Ok, that's the list of my wrong-doings and things I did wrong.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 03, 2011, 02:02:10 PM
Wait, I should have worded that as my "main things" I know I did.  I am sure there are other small things I have done, that I am not aware of.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 03, 2011, 02:19:14 PM
I had a son who wasn't gay
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 03, 2011, 02:29:36 PM
Laurie!  Play nice!  :P
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: lancaster lady on February 03, 2011, 02:32:40 PM
Maybe if your DS hadn't told her everything you said ,it would have been a different story .. :(
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 03, 2011, 02:35:06 PM
Oh definately.  I think that he shares in the blame.  But at the same time, I realize now that this is the person he chose, so it is who he was talking to.  But regardless, I should have kept my mouth shut.  At the time, I was having the words with him, with regards to his education, well-being, etc., but I still said them.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 03, 2011, 02:37:12 PM
ok ok.. you know I was just kidding... I have to go and roast some poblano peppers for dinner then I'll list where I went wrong..

But Pooh.. most of what you listed was not necessary wrong with the exception of the fact that other people 'tattled' and who knows where they placed the emphasis.  When did it become the wrong thing to do when we are asked for our honest opinion, for us to give an honest opinion.  I don't think it was honest of your son (or my own) when they run back and only god knows how their gf/dil/whatever took it.  If she was to be included in the conversation then ds should have had her there at first.  To me this does not make you wrong.. just inadvertently set up for failure.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: stilltryen on February 03, 2011, 02:44:47 PM
1.  I spoke badly about her to my DS while he was a teenager.

     Well, duh.  Bet you spoke badly to your DS about him too.  Teenagers tend to bring that kind of criticism on themselves, those are usually the years they make bad decisions, react emotionally, etc.  Admit to both DS and DIL that those were difficult years for all of you and yeah, hey, you made comments - and I'll bet they make some emotionally based comments of their own when their kids are teenagers.

2.  I tried talking to her Mother to get some insight on how to get along with future DIL.  She told her, but I should have never involved her Mother.

     Okay, I'm with you on this.  I would never involve her Mom.  I know, based on my DIL's mother, that DIL can do no wrong.  Everything DIL does is perfect in her mother's eyes, although DS tells me all about their big fights because DIL is really mean to her mom at times.

3.  I was mad at my DS for switching Colleges his Senior year, giving up a full-paid scholarship, to stay home with her and made comments about how he needed to go to a College for the education and opportunities, and not pick a different one because she attended it.  He told her.

     Unless her college gave him the same scholarship, you had every right to complain.  If they were teenagers together in high school, they should have planned accordingly back then, DS was not thinking right.  Not sure why you can't let DS know when you think he's making a mistake.  Isn't that your job as a parent, to counsel your kids?

4.  After he had attended College two years, he said he wanted to get married.  I told him they should wait until they were both done, because it would be easier to start their life with school behind them and no bills.  He told her and I should have kept my opinions to myself.

     Same answer as #3, and why can't parents have opinions?

5.  I complained to my DH all the time about her and her attitude.  After we divorced, he told her everything I said.

     Your husband was in the wrong.  When you're married, you're supposed to share concerns, thoughts, feelings, etc.  Getting divorced doesn't grant the spouse the right to do childish stunts like this.  He was the bleep, not you for trusting him.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 03, 2011, 02:53:23 PM
You are right, and I did some other things that were because of what he was doing, that did include her.  I honestly wasn't mad at her, but at him for being lazy, but then she pulled attitude and again, my mouth.  For example, he had a college application due at school by 8:00 a.m..  We were on our way out the door to a basketball game he was in the night before, and he remembered he had not told me his printer had run out of ink to print his essay that went with it.  We didn't have time to go by the store before the game (it was an hour and a half away), and the store would be closed by the time we were done.  Of course, I have this conversation with him while picking up the other guys about waiting til the last minute to do everything.   Then I told him we could go get it when we got back and take it to my job and print it real quick.  Anyway, get to the game and FDIL shows up sitting down the bleachers.  After the game, I go to meet him and he comes over and says, "Mom, can I ride back with XXXXX?"  So I told him "No, we have to go get your essay and take it by my work to print it, remember?"  That's all I get out and FDIL says, "Hmmmphhh" rolls her eyes and stomps her feet at me, right in front of about 10 other parents, and stomps off.  I was furious.  I drug him across the gym by the arm and out the door.  When we got outside, she was standing there as I told him, very loudly, "I am telling you right now.  You did this by being lazy and waiting until the last minute.  I am going out of my way to do this for you, but if you allow your GF to disrespect your Mother like that ever again, then you are not the Son I raised and if it happens again, I will embarrass her and you in front of everyone!"  And I walked to my vehicle. 

So, there was a couple of episodes of this kind of treatment, where I blew up, at him.  Her and I have never actually had words, but she heard me.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 03, 2011, 03:01:05 PM
Lol...thanks stilltryen.  She is older than him, and had been out of school and in her 2nd year of College when they started dating.  Had known her Mother for years, but shouldn't have even thought to do that.  No, he didn't replace the scholarship, but did get about 75% of it paid for at the new one.  My Ex was a big bleep and still is!

I did speak as a concerned parent, but I have to own up to the fact that I did it.  No excuses.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 03, 2011, 03:15:54 PM
I don't think you were wrong .. I just had this education discussion with my dd's bf who is about to propose to her.. I've had it with my dd and as a parent who is still financially responsible for my daughter I think my opinion should have some weight and value.

When my ds told me that he was going to propose to fdil, the first thing I asked about was her education.. while it's not impossible to finish or work on your master's later, life is sure more demanding and if a child is involved, if that child has any health issues he/she will trump your class most times.  If they read this in a book they wouldn't be offended so why is it offensive if it comes from a parent.

Last night while talking to my son.. it came up that my dil was irritated with me because I had put her dog in his crate.. I knew it bothered her because she had texted her mom about it immediately.. I didn't like being tattled on and my attitude was tough poo on you.  But once again you'll never be in the right.. I asked.. what would you do if your dog hiked his leg on the table in your house.. son-I'd spank him and throw his butt outside... I said well I don't have a fenced in yard, and I didn't hit your dog.. I leashed him took him out then brought him in and put him in his crate.. I asked.. where does your dog stay the entire day when you two are at work..son-in his crate he can't be trusted.  So because I was nicer to the dog then you would have been, didn't beat him, throw him out etc I was the bad guy for putting him in the same crate that he uses every since day at home?

While there may be times that I've overstepped the invisible line.. sometimes with full knowledge of what I was doing.. everything I do is going to be viewed through the eyes of the she victim..
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 03, 2011, 03:28:44 PM
Pooh- thanks for sharing.  You could have been a lot worse, but yes, if I were the GF I admittedly probably would not have taken too well to you at the time.  I understand the other posters who are saying "well it's partly DS's fault for telling her," but if it were me and someone were talking about my H that way, even my mom, I would tell him.  Because my loyalty is to my partner, not to my mom at that point.  Now, I think there has to be a line drawn somewhere.  Like, a couple in high school whose been dating for a few months really doesn't deserve to have that "loyalty" clause.  But I think adults in somewhat serious relationships have a loyalty to their partner above anyone else.  So maybe when they were in school and you said things about her- okay maybe he shouldn't have told her, but as you did say, you're the one who said it.  But once they get serious, you have to know that their loyalty is going to lie with their partner and accept whatever consequences come from putting them on the spot like that.

However, I don't think you should fault yourself for your a** ex-DH going off and blabbing to her about all the stuff you said.  That is crap, and you had reason to believe you could trust him with these thoughts because basically what I said above.  The marital privilege loyalty clause.  I tell my H everything.  I vent to him about everything.  He is supposed to be the most trusted person I could go to- I would never imagine he'd go spilling my secrets to others.  Your DH should have kept your secrets even after the breakup.  How were you to know that he'd go off and try to ruin your relationship with DIL?  And frankly, if I were DIL, I'd be just as put off by your X for clearly trying to stir up trouble and he would be moved to the category of "cannot be trusted."
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 03, 2011, 03:32:02 PM
The only time a secret is kept between two people is when one of them is dead. Or something along those lines, according to Ben Franklin. I don't feel like looking it up now.

I'm saving a spot in this convo to post what I did wrong. But, my blackberry doesn't keep up with me too well.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: pam1 on February 03, 2011, 03:38:57 PM
Those don't sound really awful to me, Pooh.  I dunno, teenagers are beasts.  I'm really hoping none of my kids get married or serious when they are that young. 

But yeah, MIL tells DH all kinds of things expecting he won't tell me or be affected by it on his own.  She does tend to treat us strangely in that regard, we are married lol.  Not little kids on a play date.  We are best friends and life partners.  Why would she think her words hold a candle to our marriage?  She really behaves as if there's some sort of immunity or bubble she should be afforded as his mother.  Nope.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 03, 2011, 03:40:45 PM
Quote from: Laurie on February 03, 2011, 02:37:12 PM
When did it become the wrong thing to do when we are asked for our honest opinion, for us to give an honest opinion. 

But what if you aren't asked for your opinion at all?  :)  Not being sarcastic- true question.  If you're asked for your opinion, you should of course give it as honestly as you can.  But what about when a mother isn't asked for her opinion when it comes to her adult children?  What's the consensus here?
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 03, 2011, 03:53:41 PM
Yes, I totally agree with the sharing between partners.  I do tell my DH everything.  I think my Ex did it to get back in his Son's good graces after the divorce.  I have not said anything to him about her, since he made the decision to ask her to marry him.  But yes, damage has been done.  I am not going to lie.  I don't like her as a person but I was gracious to her after the engagement and sucked it up.  But I am sure she remembers everything prior to that.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 03, 2011, 04:03:42 PM
Quote from: overwhelmed123 on February 03, 2011, 03:40:45 PM
Quote from: Laurie on February 03, 2011, 02:37:12 PM
When did it become the wrong thing to do when we are asked for our honest opinion, for us to give an honest opinion. 

But what if you aren't asked for your opinion at all?  :)  Not being sarcastic- true question.  If you're asked for your opinion, you should of course give it as honestly as you can.  But what about when a mother isn't asked for her opinion when it comes to her adult children?  What's the consensus here?
But this wasn't about giving uninvited advice.. and as far as my opinion goes, if I'm in a conversation then yes I will state my opinion.  Because I said how I feel about something I'm not necessarily implying that I'm this is what I think someone else should do.  But it does seem that some people will take anything you say and throw it back at you.. example.. If I make the statement which is only my opinion: I thought hiking in the Grand Canyon was one of the most satisfying  things a person can do.  My dil would say, well I don't want to hike the Grand Canyon.  I never said that I thought she should, but that is sure the way she hears it.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 03, 2011, 04:06:44 PM
Okay, your DIL sounds ridiculous, Laurie.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 03, 2011, 04:08:52 PM
Quote from: overwhelmed123 on February 03, 2011, 04:06:44 PM
Okay, your DIL sounds ridiculous, Laurie.
LOL... she's in her own little world at times. Oh wait my son is in there with her, and now a baby on the way.. I keep caulking it up to maturity :)
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 03, 2011, 04:10:18 PM
Pooh-

Have you told your DIL these things and offered an apology for them?  I'm sure you've explained that part of your story before, but I'm new here so I'm unfamiliar.  I mean have you been specific and said, "look, I said these things and I shouldn't have said them because they weren't my place to say, and I'm sorry.  I acted inappropriately and I can understand why you would feel the way you do, but I'm very sorry and I'd like to start over again so I can show that I won't repeat these mistakes."  Anything like that? 
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 03, 2011, 04:18:47 PM
We try not to give unsolicited advice, but at times we have.  We don't interfere in their marriage, but we have reminded them on several occasions that life goes by fast... We feel like we are the only adults saying make sure you are saving.. yes it's fun to spend but don't blink your unborn baby is about to walk into college.  I'm all for living for the moment but we've always raised our kids to be aware of tomorrow.  This is not how my dil was raised, or at least she is not giving us a hint of that, so I know there is some conflict there.  I don't need to know what they are saving.. but I will ask. are you saving.. maybe that is wrong of us.. but you know I still ask, did you spray air freshener after my son uses the bathroom. It's a lot of simply who I am.

Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 03, 2011, 04:21:14 PM
Quote from: overwhelmed123 on February 03, 2011, 04:10:18 PM
Pooh-

Have you told your DIL these things and offered an apology for them?  I'm sure you've explained that part of your story before, but I'm new here so I'm unfamiliar.  I mean have you been specific and said, "look, I said these things and I shouldn't have said them because they weren't my place to say, and I'm sorry.  I acted inappropriately and I can understand why you would feel the way you do, but I'm very sorry and I'd like to start over again so I can show that I won't repeat these mistakes."  Anything like that?
But would she not be apologizing for saying something that she probably needed to say.  If you are watching your kid give up a scholarship that they worked darn hard to get, as a parent should you not step  up. 
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: luise.volta on February 03, 2011, 05:01:33 PM
Oh, that's painful. Confession to Self. If I looked that closely, I think I would find all the same stuff at one time or another.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 03, 2011, 05:52:10 PM
No, I have not apologized exactly for saying those things.  I did tell her later that I wanted her to know that I was not mad at her, but aggravated at DS for procrastinating, and that I wasn't trying to get DS to go away to College because of her, but trying to make sure he was picking this College now, for the right reasons.  And I talked to her about the marriage thing, telling her I thought it was great that they were planning on getting married, that I just knew how hard it was going to be on both of them trying to finish College while having to work and pay bills.  I got the eye roll again so I didn't try again.

I am with Laurie on I guess I don't feel I should apologize for things said to my DS as a teenager.  When I say I spoke badly about her to him, I did.  I was saying things like "She will not let you go hang out with your friends and calls 50 times if you do.  She gets mad if you don't call her as soon as you get home from school.  You may find that cute now, but eventually, you will resent that you can't be your own person."  I was always open and  honest with my Sons and we had conversations their entire lives like that, about school, friends, etc.  This was no different...just me being a Mom.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: penelope on February 03, 2011, 05:52:53 PM
I have to make my list,but being the airhead I am,I have to think how to word it so it's not all mixed up. When my ds and dil announced marriage,my dh asked dil what about school? as she had dropped out of college,they said ds was gonna get a good job and they were gonna put her thru school to be a vet and eventually become millionares,lol she worked for us so we knew she doesn't exactly have the drive to succeed attitude:b I just kept my mouth shut until I had grown men telling me things while he was in Iraq,as I said before,we live in a small town,so before reacting,I checked into it,it was all true,when ds was in Iraq he finally asked me for my opinion,he said truth,I told him are you sure,I don't lie so I gave my opinion,he got mad,I said if you aren't mature enough to handle the truth,do not ask me for it.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 03, 2011, 05:57:07 PM
Since I'm amidst  this, this was tough for me...but here goes.

1. I could've entertained moving to their state more seriously than I did.
2. I definitely didn't act appreciative when my nails were done, and she wanted me to go get manicures with her, so she wanted me to redo my nails.
3. She kept dropping hints that she knew I was pregnant (I knew I was too, but I hadn't taken a test yet), so I just wasn't answering her. I guess I could've played into that a little. I eventually miscarried for a second time, but I guess I could've let her enjoy the moment. She would've been the first to know, not even DH knew. It was actually at a wedding when DH was deployed; I traveled down there to represent him.
4. I've gotten mad at DH for the things she says...she said once she didn't think I would remain faithful to him...I sat there waiting for him to respond, and I yelled at him later on that night when we were alone. Then a whole month later, he called her for an apology. She probably didn't mean it, and then didn't even remember it. I should've handled it then and there, myself with a "What did you mean by that?"
5. I give a lot of her gifts to goodwill, not out of malice; but I  know how I would feel if my gifts were given to goodwill.
6. I don't call her.
7. I tell DH when she's bothered me; I've since learned it's not productive; it's easier to just vent on the internet, or to my mom. She has to sense that I say that stuff to him; I know I sense it when she says it about me.
8. I didn't let her put the bows from my gifts on the crib.
9. I didn't wear the tiara she got me for my courthouse wedding.
10. When I walk by her with DD, she'll reach out her arms as I'm walking by; I've never once given in. (I do let her hold her and play with her, and I do hand her over to her, but the automatic reaching out just gets me...stupid, I know).
11. I turned down her babysitting offer when I said I didn't want to go out for New Year's to a party she wanted to go to.
12. I've walked away from photos a few times when she's tried to get one.
13. When she was already crying b/c DH said she was overstimulating the baby, I said, "No offense, you're a bit too much sometimes, you need to calm down." As a rule of thumb, if you have to say "No offense," you probably shouldn't be saying anything.
14. She wanted to come up and help us house hunt, and I wouldn't let her; I thought we should do that ourselves, but I guess I could've played the game.
15. I'm throwing 15 in for good measure, I'm sure there's something I'm forgetting.

Passive-aggressive much? Ha.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 03, 2011, 06:00:45 PM
I understand.  I guess that is where I am at.  I can look back now and say I could have handled it differently and better.  And I can see where she knows that I didn't care for her.  Not an excuse, but she never was friendly and was very disrespectful of my house.  We are totally different people with different personalities.  She really was catered to at home, and I wasn't like that.  She is materialistic, and I am not.  She is a clingy, whiney, I want my way or I will pout or be mad female, I am not. 

I promise, I am not looking for validation.  This was more of I do recognize my part in our downfall.  I wouldn't change what I did, but more like how I did it. 
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 03, 2011, 06:10:17 PM
Now see Holli, as an MIL, I don't see anything on your list that I think is that bad.  I think things like the house hunting, tiara, babysitting and pregnancy thing were her crossing the line and not respecting your boundaries and wishes.  The whole you not likely to be faithful, was hurtful and uncalled for.

Ok, the photo thing and not giving in every one in a while when she reaches for DD, probably petty, but brought on by your feelings of hurt and disrespect over the other things.

And I know you are right about the whole "sensing" because it is like that with me and DIL when we used to be around each other.  I know I could sense she would like to pick up a nail gun and shoot at me, and I'm sure she sensed I wanted to poke her in the eye with a hot poker. 
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: penelope on February 03, 2011, 06:33:26 PM
I agree,I didn't really see any of Hollib's to be bad,can't comment on the baby issue,I don't have gc,I know alot of girls who won't annouce pregnancy until 2nd trimester,it's very common. I did something today out of spite,it was imature but wasn't sure how to handle without dil getting all up tight,ds will be home next week,dil made all her post about she's so stressed out packing,funny last week she posted should be easy as she never unpacked from moving back,so she post..note to self when taking a road trip remember cell phone car charger,I sit and keep to myself,I think it's bull I have to take clothes down,if I don't ds comes home from 7 mo in Afghan and can't even put on clean underwear or something not green,so I post hey,you forgot your mail and ds clothes:b she replies oh great..lol...are you still coming down?  now she knows full well we are,she purposly kept info from us, to me it feels like I'm being forced into their marriage,I did post to call her out on it,as calling her phone gets me no where,it was childish of me,what I wanted to say was..HEY,I'M THE MOTHER NOT THE WIFE!! YOU FOLD,WASH AND HAUL IS STUFF!! lol but can't becouse then it's your mom is bossing me around to my ds
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 03, 2011, 06:36:55 PM
I think I need to learn to let it go!

Pooh, I think a MIL to a teenage couple is different than a MIL to a married, thriving couple.  I remember my first love getting reamed out in front of me, and I never thought it was b/c of me. I thought, "Yeah, you screwed up...."  In my little teenage fantasy world, my dad wouldn't have liked my boyfriend, given him a hard time and then they would learn to love one another. That's how those relationships go (at least in the books I read at that age...). So, you get a complete pass from me for that stuff.

I was single when I dropped the bomb that I was passing up my full scholarship to work instead; but it didn't go over well. I don't think conversations about changing colleges ever goes well. I saw my parents' hearts drop to their stomachs when I told them I was taking off of my studies for the summer, and I already have a degree.  Something inside parents ignites when there's talk of a deviation from an education course. There are too many horror stories out there.

As for ex-H, that explains a lot. I guess that's why he's an ex. 

My mom always yelled at me when I would tell someone what someone else said about them. She told it was me doing the hurting, not the person who had done the talking. I took this to heart. I wouldn't want to be involved in someone's pain. Plus, it doesn't make you look that trustworthy, does it? If you're telling me what someone said about me, you're going to do the same thing to me.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pen on February 03, 2011, 06:44:40 PM
Well, here goes:

1. We expressed concern about DS not finishing college if he and DIL married before graduation
2. We didn't pay for a lavish honeymoon for them, just a nice one (which is more than DH & I had, LOL)
3. I didn't wear beige to the wedding
4. We didn't give them an official wedding present since we'd paid for all the groom's stuff, honeymoon & other things
5. We didn't reciprocate after DIL's parents invited us over to their home to get acquainted; we didn't have time before the wedding and shortly thereafter we found out they hated us, so we kind of just didn't do it
6. I told a cute baby story about DS to his aunties while DIL was present; she ran out and told DS what I'd done

So cut me off already.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 03, 2011, 06:53:59 PM
But those aren't things you did wrong. I would've been one angry bride if you wore beige for my photos! Ick.

You paid for the honeymoon? Is that how it goes these days? I thought the bride and groom came up with that money. DH and I are still planning ours. We'll never get there.

I've seriously never heard of that...except for when one the parents has a timeshare, but that's different. That's incredible.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: pam1 on February 03, 2011, 06:54:06 PM
Pooh & Holli - you two are really hard on yourselves.  Can't see much wrong in all that.  And agree, teenage relationships are much different.  IMHO.

I've been thinking about this post a lot.  I'm not an angel but I did really try there for a long time and sat on the high road not responding.  I'm not a mean girl, I never learned to play those girl games.  I don't pull punches with people but I get to a point where I go for a knock out.  So, I can't say I have a list of stuff but what I did do was not malicious but I guess self preservation.  I saw what she was doing, almost divorced b/c of it.  Looking at apts and everything.  I tried a lot in the past from talking to her, to DH talking to her, to marriage counseling and individual counseling. 

And then woke up.  I'm not getting a divorce. 

She messed with the wrong person.   I knew exactly what was going on this last situation that led to cut off and didn't do anything but let her play right into it knowing full well what she was going to do and how DH would take it.  I could have managed the situation so she would never know and never have the power to hurt me or DH enough for him to say no more.  But I didn't.  I gave her just enough rope and she took it. 

She mistook my kindness for weakness.  Her loss.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: penelope on February 03, 2011, 07:32:43 PM
when ds got married,we paid for everything, I thought tradition brides dad pays, this no longer applies,after doing research,it seems as anything goes these days~
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 03, 2011, 07:56:17 PM
I read an article that people are no requiring family members (aunts, uncles, brothers, cousins) to cough up some money towards throwing the ceremony and reception as well.

All of this wedding stuff seems to be getting out of hand. They're fun, but a bad investment. To expect someone to give you money for the wedding and then bring along a nice wedding gift as well is asking a bit much.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 03, 2011, 09:01:09 PM
My dd was just invited to a wedding for a old softball buddy.. the wedding is in excess of 40k.. the girl said well I went a little over.. now she is paying for it herself but still those are some serious bucks that could be used a lot of different ways.  My dd said that she's worked out 4 different wedding options and will discuss them with us if her bf proposes before she's old and gray
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pen on February 03, 2011, 09:02:13 PM
My wedding cost less than $500 including dresses, flowers, cake, music, minister, decor, and champagne. Granted it was 25 years ago, but still...we had artist friends who gave us decor/DJ'ing for free, went to an outlet for bride + 2 bridesmaid dresses, found a really beautiful yet casual and inexpensive venue, etc. Other friends and family wanted to be involved so we asked them to make buffet items. We all had a blast and no one went into debt. We were students and couldn't afford much of a honeymoon so we did without. We're still happily together :)
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: penelope on February 04, 2011, 04:27:40 AM
same here Pen,we had ours here at this house,ppl were swimming,we also had a friend d.j for free,I borrowed my cousins dress,so less than 1000,23 yrs ago,alot of drinkers here so mostly bar bill. My cousind did the 43g's on hers,the honeymoon in Rome,well,now 18 yrs later,they are on public assistance. I love the shows on style network,you can do a really beautiful wedding fairly cheap,if your crafty:) My oldest said they want a hall,band and all friends and family at theirs,he also said he's paying for it:) but thats years down the road,they wanna buy a house in the country first. I told them I'd like to see 1 thing there for sure and I'll pay for it,a chocolate fountain,I seen one at a wedding once at it was FANTASTIC!! lol
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 05:52:28 AM
Thanks for all the support guys.  I do realize it is very hard for two very different people to get along, unless both are willing to give a little and compromise.  And the College thing for my Son wasn't about him not going now.  From the time he was a Freshman, there was a certain College he wanted to attend.  He wanted it and so we both worked very hard to get him into it.  It was a couple of hours from home, and offered excellent study in the field he was going into.  That's all I heard for 4 years and he was sooo excited when he got in and got the scholarship.  When we had discussed him going to our local College, HIS words were, they don't offer a good program for what I want and I do not ever want to go there.  So when he came in that evening and announced he had changed his mind and was now going to go to the local College, it floored me.  I managed to ask some questions trying to see his side.  I asked him, "Ok, so now why are you wanting to go to this one?"  I got the shoulder shrug and "I just do."  Ok,  so what has changed your mind?  Shoulder shrug, "I don't know."  Now my Son is very articulate and can always give you a good answer so I knew then it was because that was where she was going.  She stood there with this smug look at me until I finally said, "Son, you need to do what is best for your future and your career.  If you can make me understand some logical reasons to change, I will listen.  But if the only reason you are now going to change is because that is where XXXXX is going, that's not the right reason."  And I said other things along that line, right in front of her.  That's why I felt the need to go back later and tell her that it wasn't about her personally.  Would I have said those same things again?  Yes.  But if I could go back, I would have asked her to leave so we could talk about it.  Now, do I know that he probably would have told her anyway what I said?  Yep, with the track record he has of telling her everything I said.  But, I can say because I was mad at him and shocked, I am sure the tone in my voice rightfully led her to believe I was blaming her too.  And I was, just not personally...it would have been any girl, even if I liked them.

My current DH and I had a beautiful small wedding just over a year ago.  We did it all by ourselves and the price of everything was a little over $1200.  My first wedding was bigger and over 6K, 24 years ago.  I remember very little about it and didn't enjoy it.  This one, I remember everything and enjoyed it so much.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Scoop on February 04, 2011, 05:54:51 AM
Holli - that thing about telling a person what a bully said about them?  My Mom says that the bully made the bullets but you fired them.  I don't do that and I don't listen to it anymore either.

What I did wrong with my MIL:

1 - I didn't speak up for myself, right from the beginning.  I had my own set of expectations, that were not met and I retreated instead of speaking up.  Years later when I did speak up, the situation fixed itself and voila, that was the end of it.

2 - There is a certain way to deal with my MIL and I fought it.  It would seem that she prefers to be lied to, than to be told 'no'.  Once I learned to follow my DH's lead and do the "yeah yeah whatever" dance, our relationship became easier.  (Seriously, if MIL asks me if I want a drink and I say "No thanks", she pesters me and pesters me, "Coffee? ... Tea?... Water?... Beer?... Pop?... Coffee? ..." but if I say "Maybe later", she's fine with it.)

3 - I could have made her feel more 'special'.  Part of me wants to stomp my foot and say "but she started it!" but I have to take my own responsibility here.  So yeah, MIL would say things like "DD never wears the clothes I give her! Wah!", years later, I know she was saying "I wish I could see DD wear the clothes I gave her." but at the time, and because we had a rocky relationship, my BS detector went off and I thought to myself "Really?  You see her 3 times a year, for 2 or 3 days and you think that because you haven't seen it, she hasn't EVER worn the clothes you gave her?"  So yeah, I admit that I would intentionally have DD wear ANYTHING other than the MIL clothes when we saw MIL.  It would have been a small effort on my part that would have smoothed the relationship.

4 - I did encourage my DH to separate himself from them (as in "cut the apron strings").  He had never made that separation that would have established himself as an adult with his own opinions and his own agenda.  It was just easier for him to go along with things, even if they were unreasonable.  (For example: if he went "home" for the weekend, he would stay from Friday night through the weekend and all day Sunday. He would wake up really early on Monday morning to drive 3 hours to go to work that day.  Also, he would bring his laundry for his sister to do.)  One weekend, when we were engaged, we were visiting the IL's and MIL and DH fought (over something RIDICULOUS).  Fine, I didn't get into it.  But the next day, when she brought it up again, after it had been finished (including apology) the night before, I said "let's go" and we left their house, in anger.

5 - I have taken a big step back and allowed MIL and DH's relationship to run by itself.  Sadly, it's settled to a very low level.  Not cut off by any means, but there's very little flow of information (DH doesn't 'chat' on the phone) and very few visits.  I never say "no" to visits, but I don't offer them either.  I don't badmouth the IL's, but I don't bring them up in conversation.  Neither does DH.  I know that if I were to step in and start managing the relationship, MIL would be happier.  She would know what's going on in our lives and she would get presents and cards in a timely manner.  However, I don't see that her happiness is my responsibility.

6 - During a feud she had with SIL (her DD), I refused to take sides.  So, even though MIL had cut off SIL, and my DH (and the rest of the IL-family) followed, I continued to visit SIL, by myself.  I even knew SIL's kids before MIL did (they live in the same city and we live 4 hours away).  In fact, I still have a close relationship with SIL, which drives MIL nuts.  Because the flow of information goes me - SIL - MIL, instead of DH - MIL - SIL.

Oh - I'm sure there's more, because I do take responsibility for 50% of the problems we've had, and I've tried to change for the better.  It's unfortunate that MIL hasn't seen the light yet.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 06:00:50 AM
Scoop...you're #3 would be my #15.

I hadn't considered that this lying business to MIL is really for her sake. But, she's honest, she never lies. Ever. So, I can't help but think if she knew that her family was lying to her, she'd be really hurt. I might be wrong.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 06:06:28 AM
I love this.  I know we all have various issues and most all of them are because we are dealing with a person(s) that are difficult and selfish.  It doesn't matter if it's a DIL, MIL, Mother, DS, DD, etc....when you look at what people are writing, it is just a difficult person.

Scoop, I don't see anything awful about any of yours either.  I see only you trying to be respectful, and not getting it in return.  I think we all have our breaking point where we finally say, enough and stop trying.

But, what I am really loving about this is the fact I think everyone here knows they share in the blame in some small way.  And that is simply that we had good intentions that went awry.  But, I also see that everyone has a pattern that once the few bigger things have occurred, we started getting petty in some small way because we were tired of it.  I think that is the things that we see now that we could have done better.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: penelope on February 04, 2011, 06:41:11 AM
heres my list~it's hard becouse you have to think about am I really right on some things or not?
1.) When ds announce wedding,I should have found out how her mom felt first before I gave my honest opinion,I felt they were to young,and 2 weekend visits(actual face to face time) and internet chat over 8 months,for me just seemed how do you even know you actually can tollerate each other,relationship can be great on the internet. I waited almost 2 weeks and I made the first call to her mom.
2.) when I seen the FML and HML and brothers won't stay out of my room,can't wait to get out,I shouldn't have asked if she was getting married to get out of house.
3.) when ppl were telling me she didn't wanna get married,she felt pressure I should have stayed out of it.
4.)when family and friends were making their own comments about behavior they were seeing I should have not joined in,instead I think I should have maybe made her feel more welcomed.
5.) I can't assume becouse we love having big dinners and ppl together,she enjoys those to.
6.)I know the Olive branch needed to be smaller...instead of giving the whole tree,by my taking blame for everything,she'll never admit to any wrong doing,so now how can she grow mature wise.
7.) I need to confront them both on things instead of getting mad,copping attitude and being stressed.
this was hard for me to write,I have made my opinion known,I tell the truth,I am upset,I do stay out of their business 99.9 % of the time,I am human,when I see all the comments she posts or having my own family and friends and her family and friends tell me..this is what she said to me,and it's all pointed at a young girl who just wants out of her controling home...well,it's hard,she is now apart of our family and someday the mother of our grandchildren,as a parent to sit and not only myself think but everyones thinking this isn't gonna work out,hurts~I hope she can grow up while away from home becouse he loves her and he deserves to be loved~before the wedding he even said I'm hoping I can change her,she's always been a very negative person~I'm not the type of person to keep things from her to be mean,I have included her in everything,we recieved nothing for Christmas,not even a card,she lives a mile away,we still bought her gifts~I don't hate her,I guess I just want her to say I'm married to this man and take on the wife roll,but thats not happening,I keep to myself and i still get stuck doing everything
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 06:47:27 AM
It was hard for me too penelope.  Because I feel justified in most of what I did, it was very hard for me to go, but yes, I did these things wrong.  Even though I may have been right, I still handled some things wrong.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pen on February 04, 2011, 06:55:11 AM
Scoop, your honesty is very helpful and enlightening. I really appreciate it.

My comments are tinged with my own relationship with DIL, so bear with me:

Some of the points you made sound as if your MIL's behavior annoys you more than it would coming from someone else. I know there are people whose every move irks me because I just don't want anything to do with them in the first place. The drink questions, for example - isn't that just a hostess-y thing to do? I doubt MIL really was out to annoy you. I have friends who do that, and I don't even think about it.

Did you start out not wanting to accept her or did you change when you were treated badly by her? For example, why wouldn't you have automatically dressed DD in MIL's gifts? Didn't you do so when the clothes were from friends or your family? I know my ILs and friends loved seeing my DD in their gifts and it never would have occured to me to do anything else.

I'm trying to get a handle on my DIL's treatment of me. I do NOT want to be seen as the old bat who must be appeased once or twice a year with a fake smile and a pity visit. My DIL doesn't see me as a fellow human being with hopes, dreams, aspirations, experiences or any redeeming qualities at all other than giving birth to DS, and I doubt she honors me for that either.

I can see a lot of my DIL's treatment of me in your points and it makes me sad.

Again, thanks Scoop. I have a lot to think about.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 06:58:14 AM
Heh, my wedding was probably something I should put on my list.  I had a relatively small "surprise" wedding in the works.  My parents live on the opposite coast so I was just waiting for their next visit.  There is a local castle that you can rent out for themed dinners that I was going to throw a party at and surprise everyone with a wedding when they got there.   It was an awesome idea and I'm still rather pissed I didn't get to complete it. 

Since our engagement MIL kept trying to take over the wedding, I gave no details of my plans.  Mostly b/c I was still working everything out in my head.  But MIL would go on and on about where we should have the wedding to what I should wear.  She had everything picked out lol.

DH grew more and more concerned as time went on that MIL wouldn't be able to handle our surprise wedding, she was having massive tantrums and stirring the pot with other family members.  And at this point I didn't know her so well and I just assumed that it was a wedding thing -- you know most people go a little nutso on weddings.  And so DH and MIL wore me down. 

We spent over 20k on our wedding and MIL still didn't get what she wanted lol.   But it's ok, she paid for the flowers ;) 

I have to learn to let this one go, I still use it as fuel. 
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Faithlooksup on February 04, 2011, 07:09:44 AM
Pen,  You did NOT do anything wrong!!!!  You did what you and DH could do as well as afford!!!  Its a shame that the word "appreciation" cannot be found in any of this..... And by paying for the honeymoon that was a wonderful wedding gift in its self...
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 07:09:56 AM
Penelope,

I read you said her father thought she should've just moved away sooner; that might've been too much for her.

I really don't think you were wrong in voicing concerns over having only met twice before marrying. I had no problem with my ILs being skeptical of us being married (after dating for 4 months), and having only met me themselves once. I expected it. That's one thing they handled better than I anticipated. "You could've done worse" was what his dad said. Dry humor, I'm hoping.

If you know you're just going to boil over and react even worse to something, please do talk to them about it right away. Say it once, and then move on.

I'm still thinking she'll come around. We had a girl that was 17 and married in Italy (her parents signed permission for her to marry), and while she wasn't sheltered, she was (by 20-something accounts), a kid.  That woman is doing amazing now. She's the strongest person I know. We just underestimated her.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 07:28:47 AM
Quote from: Pen on February 04, 2011, 06:55:11 AM

I'm trying to get a handle on my DIL's treatment of me. I do NOT want to be seen as the old bat who must be appeased once or twice a year with a fake smile and a pity visit. My DIL doesn't see me as a fellow human being with hopes, dreams, aspirations, experiences or any redeeming qualities at all other than giving birth to DS, and I doubt she honors me for that either.

I can see a lot of my DIL's treatment of me in your points and it makes me sad.
I can't speak for Scoop, but my behavior changed upon MIL's treatment of me. Like I said, I gotta learn to let it go. I wouldn't have automatically dressed my DD in her gifts b/c the weather wasn't right for them one day.  I had every intention of dressing her in one of MIL's outfits the next day, but she made a stench about it. It's hard to do something for someone when they behave like that. My mother never gave into my tantrums, and lack of sleep excepting, I don't give in to DD's.

Also, Pen, I'm really only posting to be honest with you. I don't think your problem has much to do with you at all. I never would have had the expecation nor the um..."assertiveness" (insert male anatomy term there) to give you advance notification of a possible cutoff over your lifestyle or money decisions with the wedding. I mean WHO DOES THAT?

That's really only why I'm posting. I just don't know there's that much light to be shed on your situation.  I don't think your treatment of her was poor. I think you paid for MORE than what was expected for a wedding; I think a trip to the country and away from the city would be a nice change of pace; I think if DS isn't standing by her with her threats of cutoff, you have your answer: it's not you. 

It doesn't sound like you need to change a thing.

Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pen on February 04, 2011, 07:51:39 AM
Thanks Holli.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 08:37:25 AM
I was trying to get DH to write my "wrong" list for me. I figured it'd be less biased and more honest.

He told me he doesn't want a divorce.  Uh-oh.  ::)
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 08:42:56 AM
Ha ha...I like your DH.  I have the opposite problem.  My DH would be like, "You didn't do anything.  She's an idiot."
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pen on February 04, 2011, 08:52:33 AM
LOL, Pooh. Because my DIL & her FOO think they're so high class, my DH says to me privately, "What kind of people raised her?" It's our little joke when things are grim.

Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 08:55:08 AM
DH did review my list before I sent it. He said he didn't have anything to add.

He told me he does the same thing with the photos from time to time. Must be where I get it from.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 09:03:12 AM
DH wasn't around when all this occurred a few years ago, I was still married to the *bleep*.  But he has witnessed her behavior 2-3 times at family things a couple of years ago and afterwards I asked him because he is so honest, "Ok, so is it me?"  He told me "No, I mean its obvious you two don't care for each other, but I watched her with everyone and she definately has an attitude with everyone and treats DS like crap."  So I did feel better because DH is always honest with me and calls it like he sees it, even if I don't like it or agree.  But again, he is seeing how I treated her then, with civility and trying to include her.  He wasn't witness to the couple of years where I did say things.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Scoop on February 04, 2011, 10:39:14 AM
Pen, I think that a big part of the problem with my MIL and I is that we're two VERY different people.  However, we're both alike in that we're strong-willed women - what a combination!  Immovable object meet irresistible force!

I've discussed direct talkers versus indirect talkers before.  MIL is an indirect talker and I'm a direct talker.  So MIL will talk all the way around an issue, without ever addressing it directly.  To me, that's wishy-washy at best and manipulative at worst.  I'm sure that my direct comments have seemed brutal to her.  Again, what a combination.

Another thing I've read about is "askers" versus "guessers".  An asker will ask, even if they think the answer is 'no'.  A guesser will try and guess what the answer will be, and if they think it's no, they won't ask.  MIL is an asker, I'm a guesser. 

So, for example, a year after we were married, before we had even started TRYING for a baby, AND as we were leaving after a weekend visit (seriously, I was halfway out the door with a suitcase) MIL said to me "Have you thought about baby names?"  AROO?  So, because I had, I gave a couple of names I liked, and MIL said "Well, what about my name ... or your mom's name?"  So, a full 4 years before I got pregnant, MIL was already asking to have my firstborn named after her!  I couldn't imagine the gall.  In retrospect, she's an asker and it wasn't meant as an end run, or a premeditated 'hit' against me. 

I must say that this board is what has made me understand that MIL is really not TRYING to hurt me.

It would seem like asking me if I want a drink is a nice, hostess-y thing to do.  Except, as a direct talker, I said "no" - I meant it!  My MIL as an indirect talker, likes to say 'no' the first 3 times you ask, and then will say 'yes'.   So, I'm sure she feels like I'm NOT a good hostess, because I ask her once and believe her when she says no (and if I have to offer more than once, I feel like you're making me BEG to get you a drink).  Also, since we visit the IL's for a whole weekend at a time, 2 or 3 times a year, every year now for more than 10 years, I don't expect her to be "hostess-y" at all.  I know that there's food and drink in the house, and if I want something, I will help myself.  They're welcome to do the same at our house.  But no, MIL will ask me if she can have a glass of water!

As for putting DD in MIL-clothes, there are just SO many layers to that.  MIL often buys clothes that are the wrong size or the wrong season.  She really likes to buy "fancy" dresses.  It was often a case of it not making sense to put DD in the MIL-clothes, i.e. dresses on a crawler, or overalls on a potty-trainer.  Also, MIL would say "I guess DD NEVER wears the clothes I gave her".  So, as an indirect talker, she MEANT "I wish I could see DD in the clothes I gave her.", BUT as a direct talker, I took it as a direct statement of MIL thinking that even though she only sees DD 2% of the time, her ogre-DIL never put DD in the MIL-clothes.

Another one of my Mom's mottos is "We did the best we could with what we knew at the time, when we knew better, we did better."  So, I'm still learning.  This board has really helped me to NOT take MIL personally.  That alone has greatly reduced the frustration factor.


Edited to fix typos that were making me crazy!
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 10:57:26 AM
Quote from: Scoop on February 04, 2011, 10:39:14 AM
This board has really helped me to NOT take MIL personally.  That alone has greatly reduced the frustration factor.

True that!  :D
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 04, 2011, 11:36:38 AM
Quote from: Pen on February 03, 2011, 06:44:40 PM
Well, here goes:

1. We expressed concern about DS not finishing college if he and DIL married before graduation
2. We didn't pay for a lavish honeymoon for them, just a nice one (which is more than DH & I had, LOL)
3. I didn't wear beige to the wedding
4. We didn't give them an official wedding present since we'd paid for all the groom's stuff, honeymoon & other things
5. We didn't reciprocate after DIL's parents invited us over to their home to get acquainted; we didn't have time before the wedding and shortly thereafter we found out they hated us, so we kind of just didn't do it
6. I told a cute baby story about DS to his aunties while DIL was present; she ran out and told DS what I'd done

So cut me off already.

Is this a joke?  None of these even remotely offend me....in fact, it kind of makes me angry at your DIL for you.  It makes me wanna give her a slap to the head!
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 11:41:36 AM
Quote from: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 10:57:26 AM
Quote from: Scoop on February 04, 2011, 10:39:14 AM
This board has really helped me to NOT take MIL personally.  That alone has greatly reduced the frustration factor.

True that!  :D

Ditto that for me as to all the DIL perspectives I get from you guys
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 04, 2011, 11:53:48 AM
Quote from: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 11:41:36 AM

Ditto that for me as to all the DIL perspectives I get from you guys

Hope it makes up for all the bitter, hateful crap on the DIL website!!! :)
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 04, 2011, 11:56:35 AM
I'm on my way out the door for an exciting afternoon at Home Depot.. but in the shower I realized what is the worse thing I do as far as my dil is concerned.. now I don't do this to her face but I do do it and I need to stop.  I and others in our family will mimic her .. Upon first meeting her she listed everything in life she doesn't do.. I don't mow grass, I don't wash cars, I don't bathe dogs.. the list was endless.. and I have on many accounts caught myself upon being asked by my husband to do something as minor as pick up a towel.. I'll say.. oh I don't pick up towels.. Laurie would you go to the tax department?  No, I don't do taxes, or departments etc.. very very bad.. I need to stop that..   The other one was when she had a tantrum one day and yelled at my son.. I said I want a doggie-door... now when my dd doesn't get her way, she'll whine.. but I want a doggie-door... very very bad. and I need to stop laughing about it and change my ways.. I promise I'll try
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 04, 2011, 11:59:52 AM
Laurie,  I suppose it doesn't help if I tell you I'm sitting here snickering at that!  :)
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 12:04:03 PM
I'm not laughing....nope, nope, nope....not me....
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: penelope on February 04, 2011, 03:20:18 PM
hehe, we mimic our dil's look,she has a look like her mouth is always puckered!! lol  don't feel so bad now..and my future dil has a squell when she yells my ds name,we mimic it becouse it makes the dogs ears lift...lol I am very guilty of pushing food on guest,I want everyone to feel like home when their in my house...and I love to eat:) drinks however your on your own,our garage has a table and chairs,thats where everyone stays,fridge is always stocked so they walk in and help themselves. My ds contacted me today,in a few short hours he will be leaving Afghan,I held composure until he asked for his fav cookies made...then I cried,we were on yahoo so he didn't know~I hope dil doesn't get mad,he asked:)
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 04, 2011, 03:25:36 PM
if he asked for cookies.. I'd make him cookies
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: penelope on February 04, 2011, 03:41:33 PM
I am,pb with the hershey kiss on top,I am one of the worlds worst cooks,so if someone asks me to cook,I think really? lol we were chatten today,he asked about the snow and if it's pretty,I said yeah but can't wait until someday when we can move somewhere warm,love snowmobiling but the cold hurts my joints,he said What do you mean move? South? I said yeah,he said I thought dad wanted us all to live by eachother? I said, you guys have your own lives to live and dad and I aren't getting any younger,as soon as bro grads and leaves for college and we pay off credit cards we are gonna start planning..he said oh,well,oh I guess...I thought..YOUR DAD!! I'm getting the slack and it's my dh who has the keep my kids around me issue:) I love my kids and if we live close that would be great,but I'm not baseing my life around them,so dh comes home from work and I tell him about the conversation,he says well if he gets out and moves back to the area I think we should stay here....hmmmm can't wait to meet the second wife!!! lol my mil threw a fit if all her kids didn't live near her,with in 30 miles,how 1 managed to get a few states away is a mystery,the one that got away told me early on to handle mil with kid gloves,till this day I have no clue what that means
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: stilltryen on February 04, 2011, 03:54:20 PM
I grew up around my grandparents and was totally enriched by the experience.  They were so loving and caring that I wanted them to live forever and be in life.  Thus I tried to pass that on to my children.  My parents have always lived close by.  They watched my children when they were small and have always been there for them.  Now that my dad is in his 80's, he's gotten a tradition with my youngest son (who is 26).  Youngest son has Fridays off, so once a month he takes his grandpa to the barbership to go get his haircut.  Then they stop and eat lunch.  I would love to play a part in the lives of my grandchildren, and I hope they always live close by.  However, if DS & DIL choose to move to another state, then I have to live with that as well. 
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pen on February 04, 2011, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: overwhelmed123 on February 04, 2011, 11:36:38 AM
Quote from: Pen on February 03, 2011, 06:44:40 PM
Well, here goes:

1. We expressed concern about DS not finishing college if he and DIL married before graduation
2. We didn't pay for a lavish honeymoon for them, just a nice one (which is more than DH & I had, LOL)
3. I didn't wear beige to the wedding
4. We didn't give them an official wedding present since we'd paid for all the groom's stuff, honeymoon & other things
5. We didn't reciprocate after DIL's parents invited us over to their home to get acquainted; we didn't have time before the wedding and shortly thereafter we found out they hated us, so we kind of just didn't do it
6. I told a cute baby story about DS to his aunties while DIL was present; she ran out and told DS what I'd done

So cut me off already.

Is this a joke?  None of these even remotely offend me....in fact, it kind of makes me angry at your DIL for you.  It makes me wanna give her a slap to the head!

Overwhelmed, thanks for taking up my burden of anger, LOL. Now, let it go, let it go...as fabulous as DIL is, she's not worth it.

To be honest, she never said these things were a problem. I'm just guessing, because she wouldn't say anything other than that she hated us. She would never give any specific reason. Since she was so sweet before the wedding, all I can come up with are these 6 points that might have suddenly set her off immediately after the wedding. #6 actually occured years after the wedding, but I threw it in the pile anyway 'cos I thought it was funny that I could carry DS for 9 mos, birth him & raise him, but now can't share any memories or stories about him.

I may have the misfortune of having a DIL who never was going to like the mother of her DH no matter who she was. But at least DIL's being polite on the rare occasions we see her now...that's something!
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: luise.volta on February 04, 2011, 04:44:01 PM

That's a lot!  :)
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 05:26:11 PM
Quote from: penelope on February 04, 2011, 03:41:33 PM
I am,pb with the hershey kiss on top,I am one of the worlds worst cooks,so if someone asks me to cook,I think really? lol we were chatten today,he asked about the snow and if it's pretty,I said yeah but can't wait until someday when we can move somewhere warm,love snowmobiling but the cold hurts my joints,he said What do you mean move? South? I said yeah,he said I thought dad wanted us all to live by eachother? I said, you guys have your own lives to live and dad and I aren't getting any younger,as soon as bro grads and leaves for college and we pay off credit cards we are gonna start planning..he said oh,well,oh I guess...I thought..YOUR DAD!! I'm getting the slack and it's my dh who has the keep my kids around me issue:) I love my kids and if we live close that would be great,but I'm not baseing my life around them,so dh comes home from work and I tell him about the conversation,he says well if he gets out and moves back to the area I think we should stay here....hmmmm can't wait to meet the second wife!!! lol my mil threw a fit if all her kids didn't live near her,with in 30 miles,how 1 managed to get a few states away is a mystery,the one that got away told me early on to handle mil with kid gloves,till this day I have no clue what that means

Best cookie in the whole wide world.  If you can make that you're an awesome cook.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: luise.volta on February 04, 2011, 05:32:31 PM
Oh, yum!  ;D ;D

When my son left WA state and moved to Hawaii 15 years ago...I was sad. He said, "You left Michigan and your whole family when you were 27 and never looked back. I'm 40, Mom!" Case closed.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Tara on February 04, 2011, 08:47:30 PM
Hey everyone,

Its interesting to hear these lists.  So informative.  In someways if I would (perhaps overly) generalize in some ways
Scoop and Holliberrys list takes the form of "resistance."  Which I can understand if I put myself in their shoes.  You
know I give my grandgirls clothes all the time on holidays and maybe its my age, but I don't necessarily keep track of what I give them.  Then,  I do sometimes recognize when I'm visiting that gd is might be wearing something we gave her.  I
have gotten closer to my oldest gd she's entering school now and so I called her to tell her that I wouldn't see her at
xmas as I would be in India and later talked to her mom (a dil)  about what to get her and her younger sister and brother
as gifts and after we talked, she said gd is lucky to have such loving grandparents.  This particular dil is pretty understated and has
never thanked us for gifts so it felt nice.

Penelope:  I'm thinking of you and happy that you made those cookies for you son.  Its not easy to send ds off to Afganistan

My list:

#1.  I was so foolish initially.   My ds and I had 20ish years of a difficult relationship and dil was so charming, warm
and engaging when we met prior to the wedding I thought hey she's great, she's going to be the one to  help change my relationship with ds.

#2.  I asked dil why she thought Obama was like Hitler.

#3  I did talk with her on a couple of occasions about ds's problematic behavior. 

#4.  I gave away or tossed some of the gifts she sent us for holidays.   (because it was food I didn't eat for example)  I figure its the thought that counts.  I always feel happy to receive a gift initially.
       
#5.  I allowed her to talk to me in unkind/inappropriate ways (about my distant history with my son) and didn't set a strong
       boundary with her like:  never again will this be tolerated !  instead I tried to engage (via email!) in a thoughtful way.




 

Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pen on February 04, 2011, 09:02:54 PM
Tara, if we only knew in advance what the pitfalls were going to be for each separate situation. If only MILs/DILs could discuss their needs w/o egos getting in the way. I didn't squelch my DIL's criticism of us early on either, due to wanting to get along or low self-esteem or shock that she'd even say such things, I'm not sure which. It gave her alpha dog status. In her home she can be the alpha female, but she tries it in my home. She really believes we're "less than." I should have nipped that attitude in the bud immediately. I guess that's number 7 on my list now!
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Tara on February 04, 2011, 09:37:40 PM
Pen,  that is exactly right.
I let ds and dil have the alpha dog status! 
I'm really committed to strengthening my boundaries.
In truth it didn't bother me that much not to have so much contact
with dil even though I would have liked it but now there are grandkids.

I have to contemplate this deeply. 
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: stilltryen on February 04, 2011, 11:19:05 PM
Quote from: Tara on February 04, 2011, 08:47:30 PM
#2.  I asked dil why she thought Obama was like Hitler.

Oh yikes!  One thing I've learned through the ages that if one disagrees with ANYONE about politics or religions, make it off limits.  My family votes for one political party, and my DS is very, very slanted in that direction.  DIL slants the opposite political party.  We simply don't discuss it.  Works well for us.  Now, I can't speak to DS & DIL discussing it in their home, I can't imagine it turns out calmly.................
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 05, 2011, 06:26:53 AM
Quote from: Tara on February 04, 2011, 08:47:30 PM
Hey everyone,

Its interesting to hear these lists.  So informative.  In someways if I would (perhaps overly) generalize in some ways
Scoop and Holliberrys list takes the form of "resistance." 


I think resistance is a perfect word for it. It's not fair b/c I never really felt in control when we tell them about our plans; it's a lot of work to get her to realize that we've decided and that's all there is to it. MIL says she doesn't want it to be a power struggle: she should come help us pick out a house, I should consider moving down there.  Those things MAKE it a power struggle. She can't see the power struggle wouldn't be there (and I might consider moving within their tristate area, if she stopped trying to derail our plans).

I'm on to her about this law school thing: she thought we'd move in with her rent free. Which is great...but we'd never do that. Now that I've quit b/c I really couldn't afford daycare, school and a house of our own (and I didn't like it), she thinks if she can talk me into going back, we might sell our home and need a place to live, and a free babysitter. Power struggle; go to law school and move in with us....you're going to law school and moving by your family? That's a bad idea...You quit law school? Try again and move in with us--no mortgage and no daycare. It's hard taking and trusting advice when it is so loaded with her best interest. There's a million other examples.

Things like that make me resist (they make me resist my family too when the GPs start telling me to quit my job and stay home--who cares if the bills don't get paid?). If you're not going to be supportive and accepting of what we're doing right now, and you constantly try to steer us in a direction which really only suits you...I feel like I'm in a battle with you. I feel like if I get too close she's going to take over our life. When we tell you something,  why can't you just say, "That sounds great...just be sure to _____ (insert money saving tip/packing tip/traveling tip or whatever here)." Don't get us geared up for a fight over something that has nothing to do with you in the first place.


Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 05, 2011, 06:41:54 AM
Quote from: Tara on February 04, 2011, 08:47:30 PM
My list:

#1.  I was so foolish initially.   My ds and I had 20ish years of a difficult relationship and dil was so charming, warm
and engaging when we met prior to the wedding I thought hey she's great, she's going to be the one to  help change my relationship with ds.

#2.  I asked dil why she thought Obama was like Hitler.

#3  I did talk with her on a couple of occasions about ds's problematic behavior. 

#4.  I gave away or tossed some of the gifts she sent us for holidays.   (because it was food I didn't eat for example)  I figure its the thought that counts.  I always feel happy to receive a gift initially.
       
#5.  I allowed her to talk to me in unkind/inappropriate ways (about my distant history with my son) and didn't set a strong
       boundary with her like:  never again will this be tolerated !  instead I tried to engage (via email!) in a thoughtful way.

Tara,

#1, that might have been more pressure than she can handle, but were you really invested in that? It sounds like it could've just been a passing moment.
#2. Whenever someone compares ANYONE to Hitler/Nazis...I don't think there is any talking them out of that. I've learned not to engage people when they say that stuff...the problem is squarely with them, not you. You admirably tried to reason with her, and it didn't work. That's due to no reason on her part.
#3. Is it possible that you gave her a sounding board? Or that she enjoyed being a sounding board for you?  I don't see this as a problem. I would love it if MIL would say, "How can I get DS to call me more, instead of me calling him all the time?" It's just easier for her to say that I'm the problem, not him.
#4. I'm so glad I admitted I do this on WWU b/c it's let me feel less guilty about it. I didn't realize how common it was. You're not doing anything wrong...and if she's a normal person, she may not even remember what she got you.
#5. I think we all could stand to use more assertiveness. The most assertive people in my family get joked about, not complained about. "Oh...when she's mad...watch out! Hahaha!!" or..."She'll tell you like it is." That doesn't sound so bad to me. I think a lot of put what assertiveness we do have aside so we're not considered mean or unwelcoming; but putting too much aside doesn't exactly gain respect either.

I really don't see much wrong. The only thing I'm not sure of...I know people are unreasonable sometimes when it comes to politics, but I'm not sure if that carries over into other areas of their life. We all don't agree on politics with everyone we meet, but we do all manage to get along. I haven't met someone who was irrational about politics AND irrational about other areas in their life. I really hope that's not the case.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Tara on February 05, 2011, 08:00:10 AM
Holliberry,

thanks for your input. 
Yes, I just had a passing thought that my dil of ds would change our lives for the better.

You know, I was thinking about this re:  your conversation with Pam (this is true for me) that it is hard
to be an excellent mil when you haven't had good role models yourself.  Your (I'm) just making it up as
we go along and that doesn't always work.  Its like Pen and maybe Pooh and I were saying on a post recently
that we thought if we were just adults.  But for me I acted like my dil's and ss's and sd were my friends, and
that doesn't get it.  My friends do give each other advice, talk about intimate things, ask personal questions
share deeply.  (Just like we do here)

Also, thinking about mil and other family saying you should stop working and stay home with your child. 
My own mom told me to quit college when started going as a re-entry woman so I'd have more money.  She
didn't go to college and probably it was threatening, or maybe it just made good sense to her, but I'll never
forget her saying this as a grand act of unsupportiveness.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: luise.volta on February 05, 2011, 08:29:19 AM
"Grand act of unsupportiveness...", what a clear  description!
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 05, 2011, 08:31:55 AM
Now the question is...is that actually what it is or are we just interpeting it that way?  I am not sure I will ever have that answer.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: 1Glitterati on February 05, 2011, 11:28:01 AM
I'm starting to think that not only can I be viewed as a cold dil...but I may not be a good mil, either.

1).  If you have a full ride to college and decide to switch somewhere else (especially if it's for a girl), then I wish you good luck in paying for it---because I'm not going to.

2).  If you marry before you finish college, again, I wish you good luck in paying for it--because I'm not going to.

3).  I am not paying for your honeymoon.  I will pay for the rehearsal dinner up to a certain amount.  Pick your restaurant, and I'll write a check TO THEM.  Then you can pay for the overage if my $$ don't cover all you wanted.

4).  If you ask me for more $$ for the wedding other than the rehearsal dinner, then don't expect me to "shut up and wear beige".  Oh...I may wear beige...but it'll be sequined because I like sparkly stuff.  (y'all have seen my name, right?  lol)

5).  I don't expect you for every holiday, and have no plans to dictate to you what you must do or where you must be.  I expect reciprocity for that too---you don't get to dictate to me what I must do or where I must be for my holiday.

6).  No, I will not give you a down payment for a house or buy you a car.  I will also not pay your bills if you can't.

7).  No, I'm not coming to the hospital when you have the baby unless you ask me to do so.  I have no plans to sit in a waiting room for hours while jr. struggles to make his appearance.   The day is about you and my son and the baby.  I'm cool with a phone call and will visit at your convenience.

8.  No, I don't want to talk politics or religion with you.  I have my views, you have yours, and lets keep it nice and friendly by keeping those two things out of any and all conversations we might ever have.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 05, 2011, 12:19:03 PM
Sounds pretty realistic to me Glitter.. good to see you back BTW
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: luise.volta on February 05, 2011, 12:47:46 PM
Hi, G.! Makes a LOT of sense!
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 05, 2011, 12:55:19 PM
My dd is 23, so ALLLLLL her friends are getting married.. while they were all attending college as under grads, she asked just how are these (primarily) girls suppose to grow up if their parents are still funding school, insurance, food, gas, etc for what is suppose to be adult daughters.  Rule here.. you're mature enough for marriage, you are mature enough to be completely on your own financially.  DD sees this as a problem that parents are creating, and I have to agree.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: pam1 on February 05, 2011, 12:59:27 PM
I was one of the last of my friends to get married at 29.  I have a couple friends who are already divorced twice and engaged for a third time.  And then they wonder how DH and I got it so well (well in their own minds.)  Ugh...irritates me like they think that I had no control over my life and it was just luck.   Frustrating.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: lancaster lady on February 05, 2011, 01:07:08 PM
My daughter is 28 ,single , has a degree ,lives in a rented apartment .
However her income is so low ,I have to supplement her income on a regular basis .
She is trying her best to sort out her finances ,but until she does ,I don't mind helping .
Rather that than her get into a minefield of problems .

hopefully one day she will return the favour ....lol ...here come the flying pigs !!
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pen on February 05, 2011, 01:24:54 PM
We helped DS through school as per a promise made to him in high school. As soon as he married he was on his own except for a couple of bills he took over within a month or so.

Glitter, you sound like you'll make a fantastic MIL. However, if for some odd reason you're still cut off like some of us are, you might experience some of the pain and confusion some of us are feeling. I hope not; you're getting a heads up here, and many of us MILs were surprised by our DIL's treatment of us. Forewarned is forearmed, as they say.

Pam1, even if it was luck you had the good sense to go with it  :)  Your friends may have been lucky too but they didn't see it and it passed them by.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: 1Glitterati on February 05, 2011, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: Pen on February 05, 2011, 01:24:54 PM
We helped DS through school as per a promise made to him in high school. As soon as he married he was on his own except for a couple of bills he took over within a month or so.

Glitter, you sound like you'll make a fantastic MIL. However, if for some odd reason you're still cut off like some of us are, you might experience some of the pain and confusion some of us are feeling. I hope not; you're getting a heads up here, and many of us MILs were surprised by our DIL's treatment of us. Forewarned is forearmed, as they say.

Pam1, even if it was luck you had the good sense to go with it  :)  Your friends may have been lucky too but they didn't see it and it passed them by.

Pen...I agree forewarned is forearmed. 

I, though, think I have a very different idea of grandparenthood than many people might.  (Perhaps it's generational?).  At least for now, I have a hard time imagining I'm going to want to be super duper involved.  Sure, some visits here and there and hopefully doing some fun gp stuff, but I"m not interesting in totally changing up the way my life is.  Yes, I want those relationships, but to be honest I don't want to have to seriously alter my life to have them.

I'm finding that the older I get, the less and less I like to compromise about things.  I don't like to participate in things that cause me a lot of stress, or that I can't control, or that I just don't want to do, or to spend time with people I just don't like or who behave badly in one way or another.  I'm just not willing to put up with a bunch of mess and shenanigans just because someone is a family member.  (And maybe I'm oversensitive on this right now because I've finally decided I'm done with my brother.  D. O. N. E.   DONE.  While I would be sad if he died, I would be perfectly okay with never seeing him or talking to him again.  That's not going to happen because I usually end up having to be around him to see my parents, though.)

Sometimes I worry I'm becoming too cynical and jaded.  I wouldn't say bitter, though.  I've been there and done that and have edged back from that cliff.  I'm actually pretty happy in my life right now after all the crap that went on for several years.

I think if anything I will be perceived as uncaring and uninvolved by a dil.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 05, 2011, 03:25:31 PM
Quote from: Pen on February 05, 2011, 01:24:54 PM
We helped DS through school as per a promise made to him in high school. As soon as he married he was on his own except for a couple of bills he took over within a month or so.
We could foresee this bridge, so we put that clause in from the beginning.  Each child had his/her own school fund.. married or not that money is theirs... each child had enough to make it through school.... but I was not about to start funding their life with someone else... our attitude was your take on a spouse you own your adulthood.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Tara on February 05, 2011, 03:34:36 PM
Glitter,  I really appreciate your clarity and boundaries. 

One thing about your brother...in support of that:   my acupuncturist told me last week that someone he knows in the mental health field told him that "We" ( ie universal  we) have 'resolution sickness' in our culture.  We want to resolve things that can't be
resolved.  Now, that is an idea I've never heard before.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: pam1 on February 05, 2011, 04:05:32 PM
Quote from: 1Glitterati on February 05, 2011, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: Pen on February 05, 2011, 01:24:54 PM
We helped DS through school as per a promise made to him in high school. As soon as he married he was on his own except for a couple of bills he took over within a month or so.

Glitter, you sound like you'll make a fantastic MIL. However, if for some odd reason you're still cut off like some of us are, you might experience some of the pain and confusion some of us are feeling. I hope not; you're getting a heads up here, and many of us MILs were surprised by our DIL's treatment of us. Forewarned is forearmed, as they say.

Pam1, even if it was luck you had the good sense to go with it  :)  Your friends may have been lucky too but they didn't see it and it passed them by.

Pen...I agree forewarned is forearmed. 

I, though, think I have a very different idea of grandparenthood than many people might.  (Perhaps it's generational?).  At least for now, I have a hard time imagining I'm going to want to be super duper involved.  Sure, some visits here and there and hopefully doing some fun gp stuff, but I"m not interesting in totally changing up the way my life is.  Yes, I want those relationships, but to be honest I don't want to have to seriously alter my life to have them.

I'm finding that the older I get, the less and less I like to compromise about things.  I don't like to participate in things that cause me a lot of stress, or that I can't control, or that I just don't want to do, or to spend time with people I just don't like or who behave badly in one way or another.  I'm just not willing to put up with a bunch of mess and shenanigans just because someone is a family member.  (And maybe I'm oversensitive on this right now because I've finally decided I'm done with my brother.  D. O. N. E.   DONE.  While I would be sad if he died, I would be perfectly okay with never seeing him or talking to him again.  That's not going to happen because I usually end up having to be around him to see my parents, though.)

Sometimes I worry I'm becoming too cynical and jaded.  I wouldn't say bitter, though.  I've been there and done that and have edged back from that cliff.  I'm actually pretty happy in my life right now after all the crap that went on for several years.

I think if anything I will be perceived as uncaring and uninvolved by a dil.

I feel like this too.  You put it very well. 

I sometimes wonder if I'm not built too well for compromise.  I seem to offer what I would be willing to compromise when it's first talked about.  I don't hold my hand very well.  Maybe I just need to start out with the stakes really high and make people think I'm compromising when I "give in" a little.  lol
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 05, 2011, 04:09:28 PM
Isn't that the same philosophy of not showing the professor all you're really capable of on the first test so he can believe that he  helped to mold this fine young student? 
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: 1Glitterati on February 05, 2011, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: Tara on February 05, 2011, 03:34:36 PM
Glitter,  I really appreciate your clarity and boundaries. 

One thing about your brother...in support of that:   my acupuncturist told me last week that someone he knows in the mental health field told him that "We" ( ie universal  we) have 'resolution sickness' in our culture.  We want to resolve things that can't be
resolved.  Now, that is an idea I've never heard before.

Tara...I quite like that idea and I think it's true.  We want everything to be neat and tidy and be resolved and have closure.  That just doesn't work all that well for a lot of things.   For resolution, all parties have to be involved.  For closure, that can be done with just yourself.  So...I guess it's possible to have closure w/out resolution.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Tara on February 05, 2011, 04:21:53 PM
Yes.  And as Luise said recently:  detaching with love (or I might say compassion).  Alanon says that too

Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: pam1 on February 05, 2011, 04:23:31 PM
Quote from: Laurie on February 05, 2011, 04:09:28 PM
Isn't that the same philosophy of not showing the professor all you're really capable of on the first test so he can believe that he  helped to mold this fine young student?

Yeah lol.  One of my brothers was the master of doing this to everyone.  It's just too much work for me, I say and do everything really plainly.  I dunno, that's been a big problem for my in laws. 
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: 1Glitterati on February 05, 2011, 04:26:48 PM
Quote from: Tara on February 05, 2011, 04:21:53 PM
Yes.  And as Luise said recently:  detaching with love (or I might say compassion).  Alanon says that too

I have to admit...my detachment is not with love or compassion.  I finally had enough.  I got so mad that something just "snapped" for lack of a better description.  It was like a lightbulb went off and I quietly thought, "I'm done."

I'm NOT interested in repairing the relationship.  It's dead.  He said one thing too many and just killed it.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 05, 2011, 04:27:04 PM
Quote from: lancaster lady on February 05, 2011, 01:07:08 PM
My daughter is 28 ,single , has a degree ,lives in a rented apartment .
However her income is so low ,I have to supplement her income on a regular basis .
She is trying her best to sort out her finances ,but until she does ,I don't mind helping .
Rather that than her get into a minefield of problems .

hopefully one day she will return the favour ....lol ...here come the flying pigs !!
It's hard to make it out there on one salary and if you are struggling to earn enough I would not hesitate to help out some.. But what I was talking about more then that were some of the college kids.. and I'm talking about very young adults.. some want it all.. they want the cars, the school, the parties, the lifestyle, and then they want marriage, the wedding, the house the lifestyle.. at some point they need to stop relying on the bank of mom and dad. 

This was where we set our boundaries of being financially responsible..while in school we helped in any way we could.. well not beer money I wouldn't go there..  but health care, insurance, are almost impossible to keep up with unless you have a good full time job.  The cost of classes, apt, books etc came out of their money.. and if they managed it right they would have enough for 4 full years plus.  But you marry and I'm not paying for Suzie's dinners out and her pedicures and her want list.  I know parents who are still buying their married kids cars and coughing up the money for large downs on houses, or outright buying the house.  Of course when parents are doing that they are in part setting up their kids to feel entitled, at least financially entitled, not to mention totally dependent, because it's all they've ever known.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pen on February 05, 2011, 04:37:49 PM
So DH & I set up our boundaries regarding DS's financial responsibility, but his ILs have not. They have DS & DIL by the short hairs and bribe them with trips, goodies, & money. How can DH & I compete with that? No wonder we get the crumbs. I'm so sad about this.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: luise.volta on February 05, 2011, 04:48:37 PM
The harder we work, the "luckier" we get!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: luise.volta on February 05, 2011, 04:55:41 PM
And when I was growing up (1920s and 1930s) we weren't into resolution because no one ever admitted there was a problem. I'm serious.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 05, 2011, 05:30:13 PM
Luise,

I've seen the "swept under the rug" effects in my own family. I can't say this way is easier, but I wouldn't want it that way either!
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: pam1 on February 05, 2011, 05:41:33 PM
Huh, I was just thinking about the clothes thing b/c supposedly I never put DD in the clothes MIL gave her either.   And that's a different story, MIL is in love with ladybugs so she only buys DD clothes with them on it or if she can't find any she sews patches of ladybugs on them.  And won't listen when either DH and I say DD isn't fond of that type of clothing.  She's almost 8, she picks her own clothes and just stuck the clothes MIL gave her for Xmas in the Goodwill bag. 

Now why is it always the females fault?  It's not like MIL got on DH's case for DD not wearing the clothes.  Just me.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 05, 2011, 05:47:25 PM
Pam,

I think that is particularly funny considering DH dresses DD 50% of the time. Guaranteed he doesn't know who got what. But, I am not complaining as long as it's weather appropriate and her socks match.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: LaurieS on February 05, 2011, 06:33:25 PM
Quote from: Pen on February 05, 2011, 04:37:49 PM
So DH & I set up our boundaries regarding DS's financial responsibility, but his ILs have not. They have DS & DIL by the short hairs and bribe them with trips, goodies, & money. How can DH & I compete with that? No wonder we get the crumbs. I'm so sad about this.

You can't compete.. any more then we can compete with the carefree nature of my son's in-laws.. Oh sure come see us for a weekend.. just put the ticket on your credit card.. You deserve those 3 outfits honey, you only live once.  What those parents helped to create is a child who first off has to buy something every single time she walks out the door. Every time.. you don't go out for a walk  you go walk at the store as you're buying something.  So what happens, something important comes up.. buying a house.. well the government helps the service men so no deposit required.. whew they almost bit that bullet.. but now it comes to fixing up the house and guess what.. they don't have the money.. but they certainly have a house full of stuff.  Who was it that said that their mil was petrified that the dil did not have a different bed cover for each season.. she would have been very pleased with my dil :) 

This is entirely their life.. it's not how my son was raised and yeah I'm probably looked down on because I'm not the 'live for the moment' kind of person.  That is the kids business.. but they will always navigate towards the fun loving set of parents.  I just hope that my kids want to spend time with us because they love us, not to see what we can give them.  And we are not changing who we are to compete.

Remember the Dick VanDyke show?  Every time "Rob" came home from work, little Ritchy ran up and said "what did you get me daddy, what did you get me"..  you know I always wanted to slap that kid :) I guess some parents feel the need to buy their kids because some kids won't respond unless they are bought. 
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: lancaster lady on February 06, 2011, 03:50:53 AM
How will couples ever manage their finances if parents are always there with a pot of gold .
It makes them become irresponsible knowing their parents will always bale them out if they go over
on their bank account .
Also as those Beatles sang ''Money can't buy me love ''....how true .
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 06, 2011, 05:42:52 AM
Er...my GPs used money to control my parents. "We gave you this so now you must do that."

I think money can become a form of control, and if it keeps the kids right where you want them (time with GKs, every holiday, vacations together), it probably could be very effective.

I think it's terrible, but I have seen it happen.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: 1Glitterati on February 06, 2011, 07:12:12 AM
Quote from: holliberri on February 06, 2011, 05:42:52 AM
Er...my GPs used money to control my parents. "We gave you this so now you must do that."

I think money can become a form of control, and if it keeps the kids right where you want them (time with GKs, every holiday, vacations together), it probably could be very effective.

I think it's terrible, but I have seen it happen.

I think money most certainly can be a form of control.  Frankly, given the amounts of money my parents give my bro and how many times they've already bailed him out...I think he should shut his mouth and dance to whatever tune they want.  If you can't take care of yourself and you let others take care of your financial responsibilities for you --- then you should shut up, smile, and put your dancing shoes on so you can dance to your sugar-daddy's tune.

My ils offered us something twice.  Once we took it (land) and I insisted that it be done legally and it be specified it was a gift.  Otherwise, I wasn't going to accept it.  The other time was when they offered money while we were building our house.  We said no, they said we'll hold it for you.  All you have to do is ask.  When things blew up (because of their friend) and we weren't sure we could even minimally complete the house we knuckled under, humbled ourselves, and asked.  They said no.  Well, lesson learned.   Lesson learned.   :)  Lesson learned on their side, too.  I'll never forgive or forget...and they'll never get a penny of my money no matter how they might need it.

Never take money unless you specify the terms.  Make it clearly known that if it is a gift that there are no strings and you will not respond to any attempt to be manipulated by it later.  Or, put on your dancing shoes.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 08:34:26 AM
Same with my DIL/DS and her parents.  They hand them money and things constantly and we don't.  They bought a house, five minutes from her parents and within 6 months, the heat and air went out, pipes burst, etc.  Her parents fixed it all and my DIL (before I was kicked off FB, Lol) would post things like "Thank goodness for my parents and their generosity..."  blah blah blah.

I do think her parents use money and things to control them.  She did it to DIL her whole life which made her very much a "what can you do for me person" and my DS fell right into it, willingly.  Although the last couple of months, he has been complaining to my YS about their intrusiveness.  My hope is he is starting to see the price is not worth it and will start setting some boundaries.  Time will tell.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pen on February 06, 2011, 08:42:00 AM
LL, the Beatles may have sung "Money can't buy me love" but they also sang "Just give me money, that's what I want."

Some of our DS's/DIL's are stuck on the second phrase, I think. I hope my DS continues to move back to the first phrase, but money is terribly seductive and he's under the IL's influence 24/7.

Pooh, my DS recently thanked us for not being intrusive and pushy like DIL's parents. I guess that's a start.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: luise.volta on February 06, 2011, 09:12:57 AM
Oh, Pen, that's more than a start...that's a Miracle! Sending love...
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 09:17:46 AM
I think that is great too Pen, for him to thank you shows he is recognizing things.  I agree with you about the money being seductive.  I also think it allows my DS to be lazy and not have to step up and figure things out.  His Dad was always that way, taking the easy way out and I am afraid he is very influenced by that.  Doing the bare minimum and letting someone else handle it for you.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 06, 2011, 09:40:21 AM
I think that's great, Pen!!! That's a big start.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 07, 2011, 10:15:51 AM
Okay, my confession is that I did not act like the lady I normally am the last time we saw MIL.  To be fair, I was following what my H asked me to do, but I should have spoken up or just not attended.  It was a family function that was at MIL's place that DH decided he didn't want to go to at first.  We had already decided we were pretty much done with MIL.  He wanted to see his other family members that he (then) still talked to, but he did not want to have anything to do with MIL.  Then we discussed the idea of going to see everyone else, and just not engaging in much conversation with MIL.  We were weighing the pros and cons, and the thought of not wanting to punish everyone else because MIL was acting terribly.  Be polite and civil, but don't pretend there's nothing wrong when there is.  (She had just pulled a BIG stunt before this- tried to fight DH for his dogs that she volunteered to keep for us for awhile.  I mean literally said she would fight him for the dog and argued with him when he said it was time for us to bring the dogs to our new yard. We hadn't spoken to her since then up to this point)  It ended up being a disaster.  I should have just told DH if we can't be warm, we shouldn't go.  It wasn't a normal moment for me.  Anyway, she was SO overly aggressive in "sucking up" to us that we looked like complete fools when we weren't receptive to it.   In hindsight, it was definitely inappropriate for us to be there and act like that- we should have opted out of the event, period.  Lesson learned- we didn't go to any other major family events and tried as much as we could to have a relationship with the other family members until they decided they wanted nothing to do with us.  In my defense, MIL had already pushed the relationship past the point of deterioration, but our attendance at the family event made it so much worse. 

I do think my first mistake prior to any of this was letting her behavior towards me go on as long as I did before speaking up.  Whether I meant to or not, I set her expectations to be able to act the way she did with no consequences, and then when she started receiving consequences after it wore me down enough, she was caught offguard because I hadn't given her boundaries yet.  I wish I would have been more firm with boundaries at the very beginning and maybe we wouldn't be where we are now.  Of course...we probably still would because I think I was just "meant" to be the bad guy no matter what.  It just would have happened faster, I guess.  I dunno.

Just had to get that off my chest.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 07, 2011, 10:26:33 AM
Maybe we should start carrying signs with us, that we hold up when we realize things are not going like we thought they would that says:

GOOD INTENTIONS
    BAD TIMING


I'm still keeping you OW, because that isn't bad at all.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 07, 2011, 10:29:07 AM
Thank you, Pooh.   :D  I was afraid of disappointing you!  Yes, we do all need that sign!  That about sums it up!  Also- we all have our limits!  I guess I saw what happened when I hit mine!  Hindsight is always 20/20, isn't it?  Wonder how we can get foresight to up to par?  ;)
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 07, 2011, 10:30:24 AM
Pooh, that sign sums it up, really. I might have to get that t-shirt.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 07, 2011, 10:43:40 AM
Yes, I'd like it in pink!
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: Pooh on February 07, 2011, 10:51:24 AM
Pink for me too!  I bet Holli chooses, blue, purple and pink.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: luise.volta on February 07, 2011, 12:57:05 PM
That's how we learn. Be kind with yourself. And I want my sign to be in red. Fire engine red! Sending love...
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: holliberri on February 07, 2011, 12:57:57 PM
Oh...Pooh....NEVER... LOL.
Title: Re: What I did wrong with my DIL
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 07, 2011, 12:59:02 PM
 ;D