I am convinced there is no wiser place for advice and guidance than WWU....
My daughter & her husband gave birth to their first child this year. They set boundaries when their child was born which I respected but was surprised to see.... they wanted a week alone (no hospital visits, no nothing) before ANY one came to see the baby. (Back in the day my house was Grand Central Station for two months - company every single day. lol) I accepted their boundaries but also told my daughter this was unusual. She was very okay about my sharing my opinion. It hasn't been brought up since then.
However, the other set of grandparents are still struggling with their son and my daughter's decision months later. They still bring it up. My son in law has tried to get them to "agree to disagree" but it's not working. This past week, his father posted something ugly on FB about the situation. My daughter, in reaction to her husband's being upset with the FB post, texted her mother in law "your husband just posted something totally inappropriate on FB."
I think my daughter overstepped boundaries by sending that text to her mother in law. I think her husband should have been the one to send the text and my daughter should just butt out.
My daughter called me yesterday and told me about all about how this played out. They (my daughter & husband) have decided they are not seeing his parents for any holidays based on the nastiness her father in law posted on FB and the nastiness he texted to his son. (It was pretty bad; I will say that....) I fell silent & didn't offer any opinion because I don't like having these conversations over the phone. I'm old fashioned and like face to face. :)
I will be seeing my daughter in one week and I would like to tell her I think she should have let her husband text his mother and that my daughter should have stayed out of the situation.
Do you ladies agree? If you can offer any advice/perspective I certainly would appreciate it. Please know I have NO desire to get in the middle of this drama -- I simply want to gently advise my daughter.
As always, thank you!!
PP,
I agree with you -- there's lots of helpful folks here! They've greatly inspired me, too ...
Hope this doesn't come across as harsh or blunt.
But, after reading your post, my first thought is "stay out of it."
You said you have NO desire to get in the middle of the drama, yet you want to gently advise your daughter.
My view is that you can't do both.
It could get pretty ugly, and I, personally, would run from it.
They are adults and can handle their own messes.
I often have to remind myself, 'zip it' and MYOB in regards to my DS and DIL's choices.
It's been working good that way, too.
Hope they can all come to their senses and forgive their offenses.
Life is too short for such nonsense!
Thank you Shiny. I always welcome others perspectives because sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees.... My "let's fix this" mode kicked in again... lol I won't utter a word.
Let me ask you this: If my daughter brings it up again when I see her and wants my advice, do you feel it would be okay to gently give my advice? or should I say: "This is your issue to work out with your husband. My opinion does not matter."
Thanks for your input. It is appreciated.
PP,
For me personally, would say:
"This is your issue to work out with your husband."
Leave off the part about your 'opinion doesn't matter' because that goes without saying ...
Even if you 'gently' advised her as you stated, your name could come up in future conversations with the others, that Mamma said, blah, blah.
Not good.
It's been hard lesson for me to learn to stay out of my AC's decisions, and once I 'got it' it's actually been quite liberating without all their drama and worry that goes along with it.
Frankly, I've had enough of that to last for a lifetime.
I'm not fully 'there' yet, so please don't think I'm perfect -- I'm not.
But I do try -- h.a.r.d.
Want to enjoy the rest of my days with peace and contentment!
Hopefully, some others will chime in, too ...
It is helpful to hear different viewpoints.
I might say "Sometimes the more you stir a pot, the worse it stinks." And then tell her that you have complete confidence that she and her DH will handle the situation the best way possible. Then step back and watch from a distance. Good luck to all of you!
How wise you have been to this point! Listening and being without opinion, comment or advice is high road. That's the best role model you can be in my view. They have lessons to learn as they mature.
Honestly, I think your daughter has involved you too much (and that's on her).
I vented to my mom early on in my issues with MIL and it was a mistake. It was an issue between me, DH and MIL, and ours to sort out or cope with. I never should have done it. There's been no major repercussions from it, but it was still wrong.
My mom has never said anything to my MIL or DH about it, but I think there's always a risk when you get in involved that your daughter might pull a "well my mother said...." in these situations. It also changed the way my mom views and interacts with my MIL at family events (she is still nice and polite to her, for the record).
I'd ask too, if you found out your DIL was discussing you with her parents, how would you feel about it?
I think if she brings it up, just reassure her she and her DH will figure it out. I agree with the PP - you can't stay out of the middle AND gently advise her.
I agree with all of the Ladies advice here. I totally agree with Shiny that the can't do both. You can't stay out of it by telling her what she should have done.
You can be supportive by just listening to her. Frankly, I have found 'most' people really don't want advice now-a-days, even when they ask. They just want to hear they are doing the right thing and someone to agree with them.
I'm like the others. Listen and if she actually asks for your opinion, then simply smile and say, "I love you and I know that you and your husband will make the right decisions for yourselves." If she presses then simply tell her that one thing you have learned as you have got older is that what you might think, may not work for someone else and only they can make those decisions.
Thank you all for responding and sharing your thoughts. You're absolutely right. It's not my place to be involved. I raised my kids and that job is done. Should my daughter ask for my opinion I will simply say that I have every confidence she and her husband will figure things out for themselves. Period.
When I think about it, over the years when I've complained about my in-laws to my mom, my mom simply listened, offering no opinions. I just needed a place to vent and my mom has always been a great nonjudgmental listener. My husband handled his family drama - I stayed out of it and, in turn, he stayed out of my family's drama. And now it's our turn to stay out of our kids' drama.
Thanks again ladies. I knew WWU was the right place to bring my question. :)
Shiny: I have moved your post directed specifically to me to your own thread. It felt like it would be of interest to many. I gave it the title: Why Can't I Say A Word? Hugs...
My aunt did not like something I did (aunts kid said some really hurtful gossip about me to me. I asked who said it). However, my mom got involved by reprimanding me at 25 and saying she isn't getting involved. You can't do both.
Stay out of it. Stay way out it. Like Switzerland out. That's the best way to preserve your relationship with your kids and grandkids.
Hello,
I agree stay out of it, sadly most times we want to vent but really don't want advice. It could make the situation worse.
However, it is my personal view that it was okay for your daughter to send that text if her husband was hurt. Yes most times I'd agree he should, but since they are family and are creating a family together. She wouldn't want to see her husband hurt and will probably want to stand up for him, plus in that moment if she didn't and he did the situation could of got worse with how heated he may of been. That is just my view though, I do always thinks it depends on the situation.
I wish you good luck and I say just enjoy your grandchild and try to stay out of the situation.
Hope I helped some,
Starfire
Yup!
Dear PP,
Oh how I remember when my first child was born and all the commotion of in-laws. I can understand your daughter asking for a week or so to adjust to having a baby.
I also remember my son and DIL complaining about her mother and asking me for advice. I knew I was walking on eggshells and if I said the wrong thing it would come back to haunt me. So I did not say too much, just that maybe they could try seeing things from her perspective, and how mothers feel in general.
I do think the in-laws were out of line in your situation, but I hope your daughter does not punish them for it. As they say, ignore the bad behavior and acknowledge the good behavior. They (in-laws) are learning the new boundaries, it may take a little while but getting mad and cutting them off is not the answer.
I can understand this! The one thing that I am yet to hear is about the welfare of the mother and the child. Stress can delay the onset of milk. (But that seems to be ok in everyone's eyes, as long as they get to see/ hold the baby). I know during the 70s/80s mothers stayed in hospital up to a week. This allowed the mother time to recover from labor, and it also allowed time for the mother to bond and to get used to breast feeding schedules. Today mothers leave the hospital, as soon as they can, sometimes on the same day. And there is no nurses at home to tell visitors to get out when the mother and child get too tired to entertain visitors. Maybe the mother could compromise, and have a visiting time in the first couple of days, and once everyone has had their baby fix, they can leave the mother and baby in peace.
Here's an update & it's not good. :(
The relationship between mother and son has taken a turn for the worse. His mom showed up unannounced at their house - thankfully my daughter was not home so she was not involved. Mother and son are at a stalemate. His mom will not forgive him or my daughter for not allowing a visit at the time of the baby's birth. My son-in-law again proposed that they agree to disagree and move on but his mom won't.
Please know I didn't ask for this information. My daughter relayed this to me and I simply listened without asking any questions -- I really don't want to know their business.
So now there is no contact with his parents. In my eyes, the grand baby is a casualty in all this because there is no opportunity available to get to know the paternal grandparents (the rest of his family is in touch, however).
I want to say something to my daughter to point this out, but know I can't. (I hate keeping my mouth shut but I am doing it. lol)
As an aside, I did mention to my daughter that I was doing my Christmas baking and would be shipping out cookies as usual. My daughter thought it was not a good idea for me to send the cookies to her husband's parents this year as I have done in the past. I disagreed with her and pointed out I am not involved in this dispute and won't be placed in the middle. Cookies will be sent out as usual. :)
I so wish this whole thing would get resolved. I do understand that we all need to keep toxic controlling people at arm's length if we have to do so. But.... this grand baby deserves to be surrounded by ALL grandparents. Ugh.
I'm so glad WWU exists so I can vent here. It truly helps me keep my mouth shut around my daughter. lol
Thanks for listening. Again.
Well I hate that for them, but it sounds like his Mom is doing this to herself.
Good for you for not getting stuck in the middle! Bake those cookies Girl!
Isn't it odd how a small issue ( like giving the mother 1 week to recover) has turned into a huge problem, where the baby could potentially be without its grandparents for years. The mother of the child doesn't need the stress of all this at this point in time. I think that all parties concerned need to regroup and focus. The baby is not going to be worst off if he/ she doesn't see his/ her grandparents in his/her first week of life. The MIL sounds overbearing. Maybe that is why your daughter asked for a week to recover. I am postgrad psychology student. One of the things that I discovered in development psychology is that babies who have many visitors in the first month of their life, struggle with feeding from their mother. This is the result of lack of intimate bonding with the mother, and constant visitors and being passed around between friends and family members. Grandparents need to realise that their role in their grandchildren's lives is secondary at best!. It is essential ( in the first 3 months) for a baby's well being to establish a firm bond with its mother first!. But hey, as long as your needs as grandparents are met, who cares right? Even if you put the mother's and babies life at risk with all this tension and stress.
I agree that the Paternal GM is being ridiculous over this entire thing.. particularly since the one week request was meant for both sets of grandparents. It's not like the maternal GM was given unlimited access and the other wasn't.. I agree with the OP.. the request was unusual, but to each his own. It should have been respected. On the other hand, I hardly think that having grandparents see the baby immediately is going to put both the mothers and the baby's life at risk.. that is just over the top, and a bit dramatic. If that were the case, there wouldn't be very many moms and babies surviving.. as most people let the GPs see the baby in the hospital or as soon as they come home.
PatiencePlease, It appears that thhe MIL sounds fairly irrational and her focus is on meeting HER needs and so I offer this from my perspective and my experience.
I think your daughter and son in law are dealing with an extreme form of mental illness or narcissism from the MIL. I am on another forum for children of narcissists and some parents are super controlling and interfering and just plain old problem causing. You would not believe what some of these parents do to their children!
For those of us that are nice, good people, we can't understand the depth of the problems some people cause. We good, nice, loving people could never imagine creating such problems for other people. Yet those of us who have people in our family like this MIL, say "Right On" to the parents cause we know they have no choice but to do this.
It is understandable that you think the grandbaby needs to be around both grandparents but this is the good person in you speaking. And chances are, you have not been around someone who is this toxic, controlling, ugly acting, critical, shaming, mean, whatever. Some people are so toxic and so controlling that they do not bring good into any relationship.
I know as I have these toxic relationships in my family, extended family, adult children. The best thing sometimes is to protect oneself and one's children.
It sounds like your SIL made this choice to have a peaceful family life. Please do not beg your daughter or SIL to rethink this. When one is dealing with a narcissist or sociopath or someone with a personality disorder or mental illness, hearing someone say "it can't be that bad" is just plain discouraging and supports the ugly acting person. You see, the ugly acting person usually blames everything on the other person, they are always the victim and the other person is always to blame.
If you feel okay about sending cookies, and this MIL treats you with respect, then do so. Be very careful if she tries to put you in the middle, asking you to do this or that to interfere, or calling you to complain about the new parents cutting her off. This is called triangulation and some people are masters at keeping the chaos going through manipulation of all the parties.
PoppyMillie,
You do have a good point about the baby needing to bond with the mother. I used to work with new moms and many told me that they really struggled the second or third week when they were finally alone with the baby and did not know jack about diapers or feedings because relatives had done it all so mom could rest.
Lillycache, it may seem overly dramatic in normal situations where the grandparents visit, help cook and clean and keep the mother and baby together. Your experience is probably of people that were helpful and I get it that it sounds overly dramatic but I have seen the controlling relatives destroy the new mothers confidence.
I think it depends on if "the help" is there to meet their own needs or if "the help" is there to meet the needs of the mom and baby. 'Tis a huge difference.
We sometimes slip out of sharing and into debate mode. It usually means it's time to close the thread. Do you feel you have the input you wanted, PP?
I can sometimes get a little over passionate about this topic. My best friend had problems with her in laws before she had her first baby. The stress, tension and fighting cause a few health problems, and a drop in the baby's heart beat. He was delivered by emergency, almost one month before the due date. They kept the baby in hospital for two weeks after, and she was feeling off for quite some time after. I really felt for her. The doctors said that stress was the major cause!.
P, to protect yourselves, members don't use proper names, or made up ones. I modified your post. I use my own name, Luise, because it is my Website, and my son's, Kirk, who is our webmaster. Everyone else plus their family and friends are anonymous. Thanks.
Thank you for all the responses. I just wanted to follow up months later. Should my SILs mom try to involve me, I will remain neutral and not give opinions because it's simply not my place to do so.
Thank you all! WWU ladies rock! 🙂