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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: liz on January 08, 2010, 01:17:04 PM

Title: Trying to do better...
Post by: liz on January 08, 2010, 01:17:04 PM
It seems I'm constantly misinterpreting what my mil says. I'm trying so hard to not do it, to just tell the little devil whispering in my ear to go away. Like today I called mil to have ds tell her thank you for a gift she gave him recently and while I had her on speaker phone talking to ds she was asking him if he was going out and playing in the snow and she added "When you need to go out you need to make sure to wear your hat and gloves". I truly know in my heart that her heart was in the right place and that she didn't mean anything negative towards me, but I immediately thought "She doesn't think I know how to properly dress my child for the snow!"  :-[ I know she didn't mean that. It's my own problem that I'm hearing things that she's not saying so I'm dealing with it on my own. Of course I wouldn't ever say anything to her or dh about it, it's my problem. Why do these relationships have to be so difficult  :(
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: 2chickiebaby on January 08, 2010, 01:31:47 PM
Oh, I wish I knew why they are so hard, Liz...I could make zillions.  I know your MIL was just being nurturing and loving to your son, like GM's do.  We just do that.  I'm only speaking for myself but I'd probably say the same thing to him, just to let him know I loved him. 

I think we misunderstand each other...why do we do that?  Why do we take everything so hard?  I never realized that DILs  (some of them) wanted to be loved too.  I thought they just turned everything around that we did because they don't want their husbands in our lives.   Maybe they don't??

It's hard, it really is but I just think it's a misunderstanding on all parts.  It's so hard on the road of life.  No wonder we have to go to counselors and pay money to total strangers just to be heard.  Some people are not nice but I think most people just want to be loved and cared for.....do you think so?  Am I way off base?



Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: RedRose on January 08, 2010, 01:41:01 PM
Liz...She was just being a grandma...trying to be loving and caring...you know that
She knows you are a good mother...you married her son and gave her grandchildren.
She probably will cherish that call.


Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cremebrulee on January 08, 2010, 04:29:22 PM
Quote from: liz on January 08, 2010, 01:17:04 PM
It seems I'm constantly misinterpreting what my mil says. I'm trying so hard to not do it, to just tell the little devil whispering in my ear to go away. Like today I called mil to have ds tell her thank you for a gift she gave him recently and while I had her on speaker phone talking to ds she was asking him if he was going out and playing in the snow and she added "When you need to go out you need to make sure to wear your hat and gloves". I truly know in my heart that her heart was in the right place and that she didn't mean anything negative towards me, but I immediately thought "She doesn't think I know how to properly dress my child for the snow!"  :-[ I know she didn't mean that. It's my own problem that I'm hearing things that she's not saying so I'm dealing with it on my own. Of course I wouldn't ever say anything to her or dh about it, it's my problem. Why do these relationships have to be so difficult  :(

No, darlin, she didn't mean anything personal towards you...mother's are nurtureres...I find myself mothering some of my young coworkers...telling them to be careful driving, or to take this or that for they're colds...
I'm sure, it embarrasses your son at times, that she still treats him like a child...but deep in his heart, he knows, she doesn't want to let go...some mother's cannot...and it's very sad...and some son's are not only codependent on they're mothers as well as they're  wives...do you know, that son's marry women who remind them of they're mothers..?  Not all, but some...

I promise you, she wasn't demeaning you ..more so, she was still thinking of him, as her boy and her grandchildren...I tell you true, there is this marvelous instant bond with yor grandchildren, another gift from God...and we all do that at times...and you will to...someday...it's life hun...

when I was your age, oh my, did I take things to heart...and misinterpreted so many things my mil said...yes, relationships are hard, but sometimes, we can be our own worst enemies...I have surely been...LOL...we've all been there and the simple fact that you acknowledge this makes you a wonderful DIL, and wife. 

How can you not love someone who came from your body...birthing my son, was the most cherished experience of my life...and I just cannot fathom, DIL's who are mother's not understanding the love a mother and son have for each other...why, they should be so happy, that they're husbands had mother's who loved them....instead of thinking she is trying to hurt them...what she is doing a lot of times, is simply, loving her son and her grandchildren...that's all...

Hugs to you..please don't be so hard on yourself...in time, you will flourish and understand her better...get to know her...she could be one of your best friends...

Liz, your a fine person...it's ok to have doubts...and let me tell you...when I first met my DIL...I was so proud of her...I figured anyone my son married had to be a fantastic person....and so does your MIL...

Hugs Creme
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: Orly on January 08, 2010, 06:38:58 PM
Liz,
After a few years of reminding your children to "button up, wear a hat, etc" the habit is really hard to break.  You will find yourself saying these things to his friends as they run out the door to go to practices, the movies and everything else that gets them headed out into the world.

My guys and all of their friends treat this as just something I do, and believe me they are all grown up and living busy lives.  It just pops out of my mouth....they all laugh, make the "YES MOM" and scoot.  I'm pretty sure I may have the habit broken by the time grandkiddys come along....but I won't guarantee it.

Lordy, I did it to the Captain's kids when we were eating Christmas dinner one year with my oldest on his ship. (Everyone standing duty could bring their families for dinner on the ship).  Now, talk about overstepping chain of command THERE!
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: liz on January 08, 2010, 08:41:50 PM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on January 08, 2010, 01:31:47 PM
Oh, I wish I knew why they are so hard, Liz...I could make zillions.  I know your MIL was just being nurturing and loving to your son, like GM's do.  We just do that.  I'm only speaking for myself but I'd probably say the same thing to him, just to let him know I loved him. 

I think we misunderstand each other...why do we do that?  Why do we take everything so hard?  I never realized that DILs  (some of them) wanted to be loved too.  I thought they just turned everything around that we did because they don't want their husbands in our lives.   Maybe they don't??

It's hard, it really is but I just think it's a misunderstanding on all parts.  It's so hard on the road of life.  No wonder we have to go to counselors and pay money to total strangers just to be heard.  Some people are not nice but I think most people just want to be loved and cared for.....do you think so?  Am I way off base?

Most "normal" dils don't want to push their mil out of their dh's lives. I wouldn't dream of it. Of course, you have to define "push" because some mils may say their dils are pushing them out of their lives because the dil has asked the mil to not come over without calling first or or to please not go through their mail when the son/dh was perfectly willing to let his mother do so before marriage. That's not really pushing her out, it's just the dil wanting to have some privacy/warning before mil comes over. And then some dil's might not care about those particular things. So it could be in how you define "push".

I do think most normal people want to be loved and cared about. For me, I need to feel like I'm respected. By everyone, not just the il's. If I think my mom, il's, dh, anyone, is treating me like a child I feel like I'm not being respected as an adult and it makes me that much more stubborn and bull headed. If that makes sense.

This could be another thread altogether, but I think a large part of my problem with my mil stems from how she talks to me. DH and I got married young (not going into details to protect my privacy) and I noticed mil talked to me the same way she would talk to dh's sister's child who was elementary school age at the time. I never said anything, but it made me feel like I was just another child to them. Then as time went on she started talking to me like she did to sil who is mentally retarded (long story as to why she has a child, trying to protect my/our privacy as this info can give away who I/we are) and you have to be careful how/what you say to sil so she doesn't get offended. So it's like since we've been married I've either been a child or a mentally retarded adult who needed to be manipulated into doing the right thing. In fact, dh use to tell me that mil said a good wife is one who can make her dh do things while making him think it's his idea. Now does that sound healthy? I don't. I told dh that it's manipulation and not a healthy way to view a relationship. This is all so foreign to me. I grew up with parents who weren't affectionate at all, but they were straight forward in what they wanted/expected of us and never manipulative. It's taken me about a decade to pinpoint what it was about mil that bothered me so much. I realize that it's mil's lack of being able to communicate with me properly. In stead of asking for what she wants/needs, she has to hint at it and manipulate situations to get what she wants. I've never rejected her wants/needs unless their was a good/legitimate reason. This was the way she was raised with alcoholic family members and an abusive exdh and a mentally retarded child. She doesn't know any other way to communicate. So when she talks to me I'm thinking "Okay, what is she needs/wants from me?" and when she says innocent things like telling ds to make sure to wear his hat/gloves, I can't help but wonder if she was telling me in an indirect way to make sure to dress him properly? I'm trying to not think this way, but over a decade of "hints" and direct manipulations, it's hard. Sorry for the tangent I got off on.
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cremebrulee on January 09, 2010, 04:55:15 PM
Liz,

I surely can understand why you feel the way you feel....and you are wise to look at your MIL's background in how she was raised to conclude her reason's for doing things...I know it doesn't make it easier in the stress department, but, it does help you understand, why she is the way she is...she's lucky to have you...and learned behavior like her's wont' change...

I don't mean to make like of the issue you presented here, and b/c you know her manipulative side much better then I do, your probably right.

relationships are very hard...I suppose b/c we all have our very own way of thinking, and doing things...then you throw in personalities...let alone personalities with disorders and it is tough...especially getting along with two women that were thrown together by marriage...

Have you ever lived with another girl?  I did, many years ago...and while I love my girlfriend to dearly, it was difficult living with her for many reasons, and I'm certain I was no picnic either....

No two people every think alike all of the time...and allow me to point out if you will, that perhaps the fact that you know how manipulative she can be...it is hard for you to see anything she says any other way...I know I would feel the same way...

Has she ever done anything to hurt you directly or tried to turn her son, your husband, against you



Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: liz on January 11, 2010, 10:38:49 AM
The only thing I can think of that might have been a "direct" effort to try to hurt me would be when she said "That's what happens when she stays at home with mama all day" in regards to my dd crying at everyone but me when she was about 4 months old. I can't see how that wasn't designed to hurt even if she was just frustrated and hurt herself. The other stuff has been indirect. Nothing involving dh. I don't involve dh either unless it's absolutely necessary and then it's "She keeps doing x after I told her (insert instructions from a professional like a doctor, swimming instructor, what have you...). Would you mind saying something?" Then next time we're over there and he sees her do it, he'll say something. But that's it. This is my problem, I'm the one struggling to learn how to deal with different ways of communicating. One time I saw something as manipulative and asked dh if it was just me or if it was indeed manipulative and he didn't seem to think so. MIL "ended up" (her words) with an extra ticket to a local event and by her body language towards me made it clear that she wanted to take ds  (who's preschool age) to the event. He said "Just because she bought that extra ticket doesn't mean we have to use it" So now I try to see things in the same way, that just because she does x doesn't mean we have to do y as a response. This is all a learning experience for me.
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cremebrulee on January 11, 2010, 10:53:50 AM
Quote from: liz on January 11, 2010, 10:38:49 AM
The only thing I can think of that might have been a "direct" effort to try to hurt me would be when she said "That's what happens when she stays at home with mama all day" in regards to my dd crying at everyone but me when she was about 4 months old. I can't see how that wasn't designed to hurt even if she was just frustrated and hurt herself. The other stuff has been indirect. Nothing involving dh. I don't involve dh either unless it's absolutely necessary and then it's "She keeps doing x after I told her (insert instructions from a professional like a doctor, swimming instructor, what have you...). Would you mind saying something?" Then next time we're over there and he sees her do it, he'll say something. But that's it. This is my problem, I'm the one struggling to learn how to deal with different ways of communicating. One time I saw something as manipulative and asked dh if it was just me or if it was indeed manipulative and he didn't seem to think so. MIL "ended up" (her words) with an extra ticket to a local event and by her body language towards me made it clear that she wanted to take ds  (who's preschool age) to the event. He said "Just because she bought that extra ticket doesn't mean we have to use it" So now I try to see things in the same way, that just because she does x doesn't mean we have to do y as a response. This is all a learning experience for me.

Liz...how would you describe her?  What do you know about her...?
What kind of mother was she, and does your husband have brothers and sisters?  Describe her to me as if you were not her DIL, what do you see?



Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: Sassy on January 11, 2010, 09:48:24 PM
Liz I am a DIL who find solace in the soothing people here.

Passive/Aggressive approaches can drive a person batty.  After a decade of "hints-dropping" I imagine you do feel like you have to read an undertone into each thing being said.  And, I think your DH gave you great advice.  That just because a hint is dropped doesn't mean you have to pick it up and run with it.

I learned this from an experience from a P/A co-worker.  I stopped indulging her P/A, and so much improved.  I don't play "guess what she really means" anymore.  If her email doesn't have an actual question that needs answering, then I've determined it doesn't require a response from me. For example, I will make a proposal for something and she will write "That's the same day as X".  Well yes, I knew that; we all have an outlook calendar.  She may mean that could cause a conflict.  She may mean we should move one or the other.  She may mean any number of things.  Its not my job to extract from her what she actually means; its her job to express herself. (I could make a full time job out of asking her the implications of her statements).  So unless she states an objection clearly, or asks a question directly, I go forward as planned.  Our workplace has been so much more productive.  Even our supervisor noticed. 

What used to take half a day, now takes 5 minutes.  Co-worker didn't change at all.  But my response to her did.

QuoteInstead of asking for what she wants/needs, she has to hint at it and manipulate situations to get what she wants. I've never rejected her wants/needs unless their was a good/legitimate reason.

She doesn't know any other way to communicate. So when she talks to me I'm thinking "Okay, what is she needs/wants from me?"

This is my problem, I'm the one struggling to learn how to deal with different ways of communicating. One time I saw something as manipulative and asked dh if it was just me or if it was indeed manipulative and he didn't seem to think so.

Maybe you could practice not responding to MIL's P/A.  Stop dancing her P/A dance.  Learn the difference between a direct request, which would require a response from you like "yes" or "no" or "maybe."  And when she says something that's a statement, however hint-laden you may interpret it to be, practice saying or doing nothing.  It's hard at first! 

Decide today, that what she means is what she says - and that's it.  That's what your DH seems to do.  If you can change how you respond to her P/A requests in other areas, you may come to hear just what she says when she says to your son,  "make sure you put on your mittens."

Women do tend to be pleasers.  And there's nothing wrong with saying yes.  But trying to figure out what the question even is so you can answer it correctly, or determine if there even is a question, on behalf of someone else, is something you do that I think you can learn to change.  Pay attention to your urges to respond, but don't act on them.  It should get easier with practice.
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cremebrulee on January 12, 2010, 04:03:08 AM
I think Sassy has a great idea....I would also suggest, to be quick at times, and when she says something like that....reply...would you like to have GD one day a week...and I'm just using that as an example...but pin her down, make her tell you what she's thinking...as Sassy explained, it is a way of training her....which in the end can only pay off....

I work with a director who is driven crazy by women (and it drives me nuts to) who, when you ask them a question, they are not able to answer it...they go into this long disortation, and then never answers the question anyway..I've heard him say many times...."A simply yes or no is what I need".  And then when she walks out of his office he proceeds to pretend to pull his hair out and scream....Funny....but, they don't realize, this is learned behavior from a parent, and a waste of time, not to mention, it avoids any one having to second guess.

American's, all of us, needs to take a crash course in communication, the importance of it, and the dangers of 2nd guessing someone...it surely would help MIL's and DIL's. 

Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: technorebel on January 12, 2010, 03:50:35 PM
I have a feeling that's part of my problem with my dil.  Perhaps she thinks when I tidy up the kitchen that I'm making a comment on her housekeeping when I'm really just trying to help and to have something to do when the baby is napping.  My son said something to me about it.

So maybe part of the problem is this miscommunication.
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: 2chickiebaby on January 12, 2010, 04:48:45 PM
It's so hard!!  You are trying to help and she thinks you're telling her she's not a good housekeeper! 

They are sensitive and we are trying to help!  It's the craziest thing!
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cremebrulee on January 13, 2010, 05:44:41 AM
Quote from: technorebel on January 12, 2010, 03:50:35 PM
I have a feeling that's part of my problem with my dil.  Perhaps she thinks when I tidy up the kitchen that I'm making a comment on her housekeeping when I'm really just trying to help and to have something to do when the baby is napping.  My son said something to me about it.

So maybe part of the problem is this miscommunication.

Oh my, this is a very bad thing to do...not that your bad for doing it...but most DIL's take it in a negative way...do not ever, clean they're home unless they ask you to...it suggests to them, that they aren't doing it right and take a huge offense.  I know your heart is in the right place in wanting to do it...but, it is a boundary to them, that should never be crossed. 

If she says, she doesn't want help cleaning up the dinner plates, then don't help her....

I want to offer something else...sometimes we are just so stuck in our small little words that we don't listen or hear people....I for one, when I cook for guests, they are guests...and, I don't want them in my kitchen, not even to clear the table or help with  anything...I want to give them a night off and weight on them...this is they're evening....if I need help, I'll ask for it...and I personally hate it, when someone walks into my kitchen and starts laying down dirty dishes or insists on helping to clean up....I won't say anything to them, but I'd rather we all just have a comfortable evening together, and after they leave, I'll clean up...

If your visiting someone, and you ask them, if you can do anything to help and they say no, please be polite and listen to them....it's nice that you offered, but sometimes when you help, it overwhelms and breaks consentration...at least for me it does...LOL 

I just thought I'd offer that...but yeah....if your helping your DIL clear the dishes...then, only do that...do not tidy up her kitchen or change anything in her house....it's her house, and you must respect it as such....

My MIL used to do that to me....and while I knew it was just her being her, I didn't really like her doing it...a woman's kitchen is just that...hers....yanno? 

Hope you understand, I do know you only mean to help her, but she doesn't view it that way....yanno?
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: Sassy on January 13, 2010, 06:01:15 AM
QuoteIf she says, she doesn't want help cleaning up the dinner plates, then don't help her....

You're right, it's always a good idea to listen when being asked not to do something in someone's home.

And, especially in the context of this thread, I understand how someone could take having their house straightened as a sign of someone thinking their home is not clean enough.

But, uhm.... for the record, anyone who wants to help this DIL clean my kitchen or straighten my drawers can do so anytime.  Work being done for me, feels like love to me!  In fact.....uhm..... Please?!  ;D 
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cocobars on January 13, 2010, 06:06:52 AM
Hehehe!  Sassy, too funny! 

I actually never thought doing something like that was a bad thing, until I saw this post.  I guess my DIL is like you.  LOL!  She never minded, and even invited the help!  I'm learning more and more on this site and it makes me appreciate the little things like this that I could be dealing with! I think that's a step, isn't it?
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: 2chickiebaby on January 13, 2010, 06:14:16 AM
I'm learning too...I've made so many mistakes!!  Maybe I was trying to help and it was taken as taking over.   :-[

It's the hardest road to travel because you think you're a teenager, her age and you are over there having a party.  Of course, you're going to help.  If you don't help, though, she will think you're lazy! 

  Oh jeeeeeeeeze!
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cocobars on January 13, 2010, 06:18:40 AM
So true chickie!  I was raised to help out when I was invited over!  So many things are taken differently from a MIL.  I never realized.
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: isitme? on January 13, 2010, 06:30:46 AM
How about from the other side?  Do you expect your DIL to help out in the kitchen when she is at your place?  I was  taught always to offer to help out.  The first few times I went to FMILs place, I helped out and it seemed fine.  Then one morning, I walked into the kitchen and she just pointed at me and then at the dishwasher.  Another time, she brought in a pile of BF's laundry and told me to start folding it while he was just sitting there watching tv.  I started folding, but also got BF to help me do it.  Those times it was just expected because I was the girl, or I was the FDIL, I resented it - especially since I do not have a good relationship with FMIL. 

I can totally see how some of your DILs would interpret you helping out around the her house as a sign that you disapprove of her housekeeping skills.  And if she is insecure she would probably not take that well.  But how do you feel about your DIL helping you out around the house?  Do you expect it?  If she doesn't, do you take it as a sign that she is lazy or ungrateful?  Do you expect your sons to help out around the house as much as your DILs?  I bet there are a lot of different answers to these questions but I'd like to get your thoughts...
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cremebrulee on January 13, 2010, 06:31:26 AM
yes, your both right, it is a huge intrusion on them...but another thing, we're, you and me and a lot of human beings, are so caught up in our own little words, we forget to listen, I mean really listen to people when they say no...unless they come out, hit us with a 2 x 4 while saying NO!  It's true, and I bet you couldn't count how many times someone has said no to you and you went ahead and done the very thing they didn't want you to do, b/c you refused to identify with they're wants and needs....you and me, mind you, I'm using you in general....LOL

anyway, we need to learn, if someone says no, then to listen...

for instance, a woman walked into my bosses office the other day...she tells him they are starting up an organization for work, outside of work and he needs to come, he said to her, "Well, I really don't think I'd be interested in coming", she answers, "Oh yes, do come, you'll have a great time", and I believe he said that 4 times, but she refussed to hear him and ended the conversation by saying..."well, you have to come to the first one anyway, to evaluate and give feedback"....??????

Ladies , 4 times?  and she still didn't have a clue?????

needless to say, as she was leaving his office, I said to myself....man oh man, I sure am glad she is not MY MIL!!!!  LOL  and I honestly felt sorry for her husband and children....

So, be aware when someone is trying to tell you no, but in a round about way like, "well, I really don't think" or "I'm not really interested" or, No, I think I can get it...but thank you...don't go ahead and do your thing anyway, respect your DIL's wishes or anyone else for that matter, your in they're home, not yours....it's they're home and your son's home...and just b/c he's your son, doesn't give us MIL's any right to do more then we're asked to do...remember that...it's they're home and respect it to be so....

and I say that with all endearing love and warmth....so please don't hate me....cuz I can be pretty cut and dry....and I apologize for being so....

Hugs
Creme
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cocobars on January 13, 2010, 06:40:06 AM
Quote from: isitme? on January 13, 2010, 06:30:46 AM
How about from the other side?  Do you expect your DIL to help out in the kitchen when she is at your place?  I was  taught always to offer to help out.  The first few times I went to FMILs place, I helped out and it seemed fine.  Then one morning, I walked into the kitchen and she just pointed at me and then at the dishwasher.  Another time, she brought in a pile of BF's laundry and told me to start folding it while he was just sitting there watching tv.  I started folding, but also got BF to help me do it.  Those times it was just expected because I was the girl, or I was the FDIL, I resented it - especially since I do not have a good relationship with FMIL. 

I can totally see how some of your DILs would interpret you helping out around the her house as a sign that you disapprove of her housekeeping skills.  And if she is insecure she would probably not take that well.  But how do you feel about your DIL helping you out around the house?  Do you expect it?  If she doesn't, do you take it as a sign that she is lazy or ungrateful?  Do you expect your sons to help out around the house as much as your DILs?  I bet there are a lot of different answers to these questions but I'd like to get your thoughts...

I'm sorry to hear your FMIL does things like that.  My DIL has come over and helped out with clean up and dishes here.  I have thanked her for the help, because that creates more time for me (and her) to both go sit down with everyone else.

Sassy - I don't know what to say...
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: 2chickiebaby on January 13, 2010, 06:42:14 AM
Isime......'It is her' in many, many ways I've come to believe.  Pointed at the dishwasher?  Then to the clothes to fold?   Very rude.  Pretty disgusting behavior.
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cocobars on January 13, 2010, 06:44:59 AM
I'm sorry isitme,  I was just replying to sassy in another post.  My last post here was to you.  I got your name wrong on  that.
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cremebrulee on January 13, 2010, 06:46:20 AM
Quote from: isitme? on January 13, 2010, 06:30:46 AM
How about from the other side?  Do you expect your DIL to help out in the kitchen when she is at your place?  I was  taught always to offer to help out.  The first few times I went to FMILs place, I helped out and it seemed fine.  Then one morning, I walked into the kitchen and she just pointed at me and then at the dishwasher.  Another time, she brought in a pile of BF's laundry and told me to start folding it while he was just sitting there watching tv.  I started folding, but also got BF to help me do it.  Those times it was just expected because I was the girl, or I was the FDIL, I resented it - especially since I do not have a good relationship with FMIL. 

I can totally see how some of your DILs would interpret you helping out around the her house as a sign that you disapprove of her housekeeping skills.  And if she is insecure she would probably not take that well.  But how do you feel about your DIL helping you out around the house?  Do you expect it?  If she doesn't, do you take it as a sign that she is lazy or ungrateful?  Do you expect your sons to help out around the house as much as your DILs?  I bet there are a lot of different answers to these questions but I'd like to get your thoughts...

If my son and DIL came to visit, I wouldn't expect them to do anything...they are guests....if they went ahead and did something, I wouldn't get angry, I'd understand...but then, I'm older, things don't flick me off as much as they did when I was younger....but, if I were a guest in anyone's home, and I asked them if I could help and they said no, I say, "Well you had your chance", and we laugh it off....

But and here is another suggestion...if your having your inlaws over for dinner, and your MIL asks if she can help with anything, what you could do is say..."well, I think everything's under control", but why don't you come out in the kitchen and keep me company while I'm preparing, and then pick a subject that you know she would like to talk about (espeically herself) as everyone loves to talk about themselves....ask her something to get her talking, for advice or a recipe or anything, that you know sparks her interest...it might work?  DIL's have to learn to listen as well....

Treat your Inlaws as you treated your BF's when you first started dating....always with respect and understanding....
(and if anyone ruffles my feathers, they get a what for very politely but sternly) LOL

Bullies do not respect someone who allows them to bully them...so, be yourself...listen for the no's and the yes's and ask questions, get your inlaws to talk about themselves....

Just my 2 cents..... ;)
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: 2chickiebaby on January 13, 2010, 06:52:55 AM
I'm a people pleaser, Creme....and all of you.  I am so afraid of anger and confrontation that it is a serious problem.  Oddly, though, I am self-confident probably because people like me.  They probably like me because I'm a people pleaser.  Why can't I learn?

No matter what the DILs do, it's okay.  I just allow it. I wish I could tell someone off.  I just can't. 
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cremebrulee on January 13, 2010, 07:32:32 AM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on January 13, 2010, 06:52:55 AM
I'm a people pleaser, Creme....and all of you.  I am so afraid of anger and confrontation that it is a serious problem.  Oddly, though, I am self-confident probably because people like me.  They probably like me because I'm a people pleaser.  Why can't I learn?

No matter what the DILs do, it's okay.  I just allow it. I wish I could tell someone off.  I just can't.

you have me smiling...yes, I know...your a sweetie....

I don't tell people off to much, they really have to push me, but I will protect my territory when need be....usually all it takes is a look...LOL
I can give you a Clint Eastwood looks that says, "Go ahead, make my day".  LOL
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: isitme? on January 13, 2010, 07:34:13 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on January 13, 2010, 06:46:20 AM
But and here is another suggestion...if your having your inlaws over for dinner, and your MIL asks if she can help with anything, what you could do is say..."well, I think everything's under control", but why don't you come out in the kitchen and keep me company while I'm preparing, and then pick a subject that you know she would like to talk about (espeically herself) as everyone loves to talk about themselves....ask her something to get her talking, for advice or a recipe or anything, that you know sparks her interest...it might work?  DIL's have to learn to listen as well....

Well, I've done my best in the past - have never had to deal with her in my own home so I don't know how that would go.  I'm really used to hanging out in the kitchen and helping out in lots of situations .  But the times I"ve done so at MILs house, I've always felt like an outsider/servant.  So I'm not sure how to handle things in the future.  On her own turf, I think I would continue to offer to help and do so.  During the first year, I've tried to engage her in conversation about interests, cooking advice etc. etc.  No real responses.    On my own turf, I'm not sure what I"d do.  I like your idea of telling her "everything is under control" but as for asking her to keep me company?  Well, I guess I"ll burn that bridge when I come to it, but I think what I would suggest is for her to go join her son and any other guests and relax.  I haven't reached that point though - so perhaps when I do, I'll come back with that question.

It sounds to me like most of you MILs really DON'T expect anything from your DIL.  Is it because you are afraid of her reaction if you asked her?  Don't feel comfortable spending time alone with her because you don't know how she might behave (this is where I"m at with FMIL)?  Or do you really just not expect her to help out/offer to help out because she's a guest.  I feel like if I didn't offer to help out - in fact, insist on it, I would be called rude and lazy by my FMIL.  But then again, she's always going to be looking for mean things to say about me.

chickie - thanks for the reassurance.  When I first came on this site, I really was wondering what I had done.  But you and many others have helped me realize that it's not really me at all.  Even with the laundry/dishwasher thing.  I actually didnt' think much of it at the time - but several months later when discussing things with my aunt, I mentioned it and she got REALLY mad about it - which surprised me at the time.  But now that i see things in the larger context of FMILs general behavior, I realize that while I don't mind helping out - and will continue to offer/do so, I do NOT want to be treated like a servant!  This is probably going to be a point of contention with FMIL because that's kind of the role she has played in her life - mother and housewife.  She's never had an MIL of her own but believes that the role of the DIL is as servant to her husband's family.  Again, I don't mind helping out with various domestic functions - I do that with my own family and see my SIL's do the same.  But I'm NOT going to be FMIL's servant!  I hate confrontation too - but I"m going to have to learn to stand up for myself with FMIL to protect myself from her unhealthiness.  I think it's going to be difficult to draw that line between being considerate and being a doormat with her though   >:(   Do you think you have the same problem with your DIL?
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: 2chickiebaby on January 13, 2010, 07:45:36 AM
Yes, yes and triple yes, Isitme (Itisher).  I have that same problem with the DILs. One uses me and the other one doesn't get me.  When I'm alone with DDIL, she is very bossy and would really like to tell me what to do in life. She has done that and I've let her.

When you go to FMILs house the next time, sit on your fanny and do not help. If she asks, do something but not unless she asks.  I realize she is reacting to what her world was like but this is not her world. 

When you make conversation with her, tell her things you are doing and BF is doing and if she makes condescending statements, immediately turn back to talking about your life.

Don't be like me and have it all make you so sad.  I don't know if that's what she's doing but it seems like she's taking great advantage of you and your fear of confrontation.

That's what they do to me!  Double Darn!!  They know I'm on pins and needles and DDIL just uses it to the hilt. Sometimes I don't like women....other times I think they're the greatest.  Women are trouble...big trouble.
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: isitme? on January 13, 2010, 07:53:03 AM
I wish your DILs woulnd't use your weaknesses against you like this.  I think that's what my FMIL has been trying to do with me but I'm not going to let her.  I"m not going to show her my weaknesses. 

I've heard my BF's SIL get into arguments with FMIL all the time - they are both two peas in a pod.  They get in the kitchen and one starts yelling at the other and the other reacts.  I guess that will have to be an additional dynamic to duck in the future...  :o

If you'r DDIL tries to boss you around, do you think there's a way you could stand up for yourself and tell her to mind her own business?  For me, the best way to deal with that has been to use non-defensive verbal responses.  That eases difficult situations but also has the effect of shutting down communication though - which I"m not sure is always the best thing to do.  But sometimes it might be. 
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: liz on January 13, 2010, 11:54:00 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on January 13, 2010, 05:44:41 AM
.I for one, when I cook for guests, they are guests...and, I don't want them in my kitchen, not even to clear the table or help with  anything...I want to give them a night off and weight on them...this is they're evening....if I need help, I'll ask for it...and I personally hate it, when someone walks into my kitchen and starts laying down dirty dishes or insists on helping to clean up....I won't say anything to them, but I'd rather we all just have a comfortable evening together, and after they leave, I'll clean up...

I think this is proper etiquette actually. I firmly believe that if I am willing to host people for a holiday or dinner or whatever that I shouldn't expect people to help cook or clean up. I don't have a problem taking up a helpful offer if I really really need it, but I think it's bad form to expect help. My mil, on the other hand, told me when we were first married that she was happy that her son married someone willing to help out in the kitchen (like for holidays) because step sister il wouldn't ever help out. I am always willing to always help when needed or to stay out of the way if needed. Poor step sil probably had no clue she was expected to help out. Funny thing now is that I can't really help out as much because I've got two little ones running around trying to make messes, spill stuff, tear stuff up etc.. If she's not able to handle  the cooking and clean up involved in having all of us over for holiday dinners then she needs to tell us she can't do it anymore.
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cremebrulee on January 13, 2010, 11:58:00 AM
Quote from: liz on January 13, 2010, 11:54:00 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on January 13, 2010, 05:44:41 AM
.I for one, when I cook for guests, they are guests...and, I don't want them in my kitchen, not even to clear the table or help with  anything...I want to give them a night off and weight on them...this is they're evening....if I need help, I'll ask for it...and I personally hate it, when someone walks into my kitchen and starts laying down dirty dishes or insists on helping to clean up....I won't say anything to them, but I'd rather we all just have a comfortable evening together, and after they leave, I'll clean up...

I think this is proper etiquette actually. I firmly believe that if I am willing to host people for a holiday or dinner or whatever that I shouldn't expect people to help cook or clean up. I don't have a problem taking up a helpful offer if I really really need it, but I think it's bad form to expect help. My mil, on the other hand, told me when we were first married that she was happy that her son married someone willing to help out in the kitchen (like for holidays) because step sister il wouldn't ever help out. I am always willing to always help when needed or to stay out of the way if needed. Poor step sil probably had no clue she was expected to help out. Funny thing now is that I can't really help out as much because I've got two little ones running around trying to make messes, spill stuff, tear stuff up etc.. If she's not able to handle  the cooking and clean up involved in having all of us over for holiday dinners then she needs to tell us she can't do it anymore.

Hiya Liz
I feel the same way you do about this...if someone insists I won't stamp my feet at them, but to have someone else working in my kitchen, really overwhelms me....and I hate it when they start cleaning up, but I won't disallow them?  is disallow a word?

Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: RedRose on January 14, 2010, 05:59:44 AM
Ok, I am the opposite of a lot of people here. If I'm in the kitchen cooking and somebody wants to help me...I welcome it. I love the help and the conversation. And...when the meal is over...hey...help me clean up. I don't like it when I don't get help cleaning...and my kitchen has to be clean before I can sit and relax. The more help I get the faster it gets done. Letting everything sit is just yucky to me. I don't want to be up 2 hours after my company leaves cleaning. I see nothing wrong with helping when I'm at someone else's house either. I was brought up this way and my children always help also...it doesn't matter if they have kids or not. I taught them to be helpful.
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: cremebrulee on January 14, 2010, 06:50:08 AM
Quote from: RedRose on January 14, 2010, 05:59:44 AM
Ok, I am the opposite of a lot of people here. If I'm in the kitchen cooking and somebody wants to help me...I welcome it. I love the help and the conversation. And...when the meal is over...hey...help me clean up. I don't like it when I don't get help cleaning...and my kitchen has to be clean before I can sit and relax. The more help I get the faster it gets done. Letting everything sit is just yucky to me. I don't want to be up 2 hours after my company leaves cleaning. I see nothing wrong with helping when I'm at someone else's house either. I was brought up this way and my children always help also...it doesn't matter if they have kids or not. I taught them to be helpful.

LOL, I was up until past midnight Christmas Day cleaning up....????
hmmmm, what's wrong with this picture? 

Your right, I'm changing
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: RedRose on January 14, 2010, 07:30:24 AM
Yessss...accept the help...it won't hurt them.
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: Kinzey on January 14, 2010, 08:33:19 AM
lol Well over Christmas my mil asked my husband and me to do the dishes and we got up and then my fil asked my husband to do something in the garage and I was left alone to do dishes. Heaven forbid my 20 year old sister in law do the dishes.
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: isitme? on January 14, 2010, 09:46:45 AM
I never mind helping out - but I HATE double standards.  Fortunately BF trains well, but I don't know if there is anything you can do about your SIL Kinzey....   >:(   How do you get along with her apart from the rest of your inlaws?  Could you ever just ask her to lend a hand?
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: 2chickiebaby on January 14, 2010, 09:58:57 AM
Is there anything wrong with saying, "hey, I need help in here?" 

I'm thinking back on my intro to marriage and my MIL was a fabulous cook.  I helped with the dishes afterwards but her daughter, my SIL, sat on her backside and did nothing!  I dared not ask her to help us because MIL babied her to death.  Besides, SIL would have bitten my head off.  I was skeeeeeeeeered of her.

I wish now I had said, "hey, come over and help and then we can have a lively chat about the weather"...their favorite topic.  It doesn't make any difference now, though.



Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: isitme? on January 14, 2010, 10:29:00 AM
Sometimes I feel like when I"m stuck with all the work, asking for specific help works with some people - I can ask my sister:  "hey, while I"m doing dishes, do you mind wiping down the table?"  If you're not comfortable having a conversation with someone in general (DIL, MIL, SIL, anyone..) would you necessarily want to "hang out" with them in the kitchen?  So maybe pitching it as a "hey come in here and help me and then we can talk" doesn't always work.  But pointing out that YOU are doing something, and the other person could help by performing a specific task might be an option.  For example chickie, do you think you could have said to your SIL "While I'm washing the dishes, can you help me out with the drying?"
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: 2chickiebaby on January 14, 2010, 10:36:59 AM
Isitme....are you freaking kidding me?  DH's sister was such a little cry baby....whined all the time!  She was a grown woman too, only 5 years younger than I am.  Just whined and whined about everything.  Her Mother, DH's Mother, would even say, "poor little SIL, she's had such a hard life.  She doesn't need to be in the kitchen cleaning." 

I sound ridiculous; I know, because she did have some bumps in the road.  I'm sorry I said all that?  I've had not just bumps in the road but boulders in the road and I'm not capable of being mean in person.

She could be so mean, though.  I mean down right mean!  It's one thing to have a lazy person around and another all together when you have a lazy, whiney and mean  person there.
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: isitme? on January 14, 2010, 11:00:26 AM
I totally hear you  - laziness is annoying but all the more so when the lazy person is also whiney!!!!!

You could never be a mean person!!!!  I don't think having "bumps" in the road entitle someone to be lazy or whiny or mean... 
Title: Re: Trying to do better...
Post by: Orly on January 14, 2010, 11:17:23 AM
HMMM, They can be whiney when those "boulders of life" LAND on them.   I will give them that.  Bumps, nope sorry, tell it to the hand.