WiseWomenUnite.com

Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: Tara on May 12, 2011, 12:11:50 AM

Title: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 12, 2011, 12:11:50 AM
Hello WW

I would welcome a bit of advice. 

I have written before about my ds and dil having twins and planning to visit. 
Much good advice was given and appreciated.  Since that earlier post though
shortly after my DIL gave birth to the girls and I returned from a pilgrimage to
India,  my DIL wrote me a hateful poison pen letter and returned a pair of earrings
I sent her.   It was very surprising and threw me  into a state of shock and anxiety.
I since then took a time out and studied and consulted with Josh Coleman author of
"Parents who Hurt"  He helped me write a letter to my DIL who still hasn't spoken to
me but my DS has been in touch and has said that she doesn't want to have a relationship
with me, that she will be "cordial" and that I wouldn't be cut off from the grand girls.   
Also, since the girls were born he has been saying he is having flash backs of good memories
of his childhood  (a first).

Now I am preparing for a visit in a week & 1/2 to see them.  About  3 weeks ago I wrote an email to
both my DIL and DS saying I was looking forward to seeing them and would like to know
how they would like the weekend to go, when and where they would like to get together.
DS wrote back and said that it would be good to wait till we were a little closer to the date.
I was advised to try to clarify the time and places in advance because my DIL wrote in her poison
pen letter that if I was privileged enough to see the girls it would be totally
on "their terms, not mine"  ironically, it has always been on their terms.

I am approaching this visit with trepidation, mainly because both my DIL( and DS) are   unpredictable and I don't know
if we will get down there and she will not uphold her commitment to be cordial.  Or something weird
out of left field will occur.  We are staying at a hotel, where prior to the birth and poison pen letter
I had been invited to stay at the house.  My DS says that during their marriage she has never had anyone
over and I don't think hes talking about spending the night even.  My DIL has also cut off all of DS extended
family and told me she more of a peace of mind as a result.

I'm did some research and found places to go kayaking and am thinking that it is good to have some back up
plans.  Josh Coleman says being invited to visit is progress but I should accept DIL as she is and not expect
her to be close or open to me.    So, my plan is to try to stay centered, be open and warm and take a moment
at a time.  Also, to set limits of she starts to be rude or abusive.  My DS says that ultimately she is a 'hard core
republican and you mom are a liberal"  At one point I had the worst feeling that she was taking some gleeful joy in tearing into a
liberal.  I am also a Buddhist so this is another area of difference as she is Catholic.  This is fine with me...
My DH is also a catholic and we honor and support each others spiritual practices.

I would really appreciate thoughts you might have about 'staying safe' in an unsafe environment, being open hearted
and myself but keeping expectations to a minimum.  As my son says 'baby steps'.


Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: lancaster lady on May 12, 2011, 01:00:27 AM
Hi Tara ,
I'm so glad that you are all getting together , but the more you think about things going wrong the more nervous you'll become .
I remember my first 'visit' after my family trauma and how nervous I was .
However nothing was mentioned re emails , phone calls , or texts . I took the visit as a chance to see my GD and no more .
I greeted my DIL as normal ''Hello how are you '' and that was it . t he rest of the time I just concentrated on my GD.
I must say this visit was only two hours long , how long are you staying ? I would make the first visit short and sweet and take
it from there . Don't plan anything .Once you see how the land lies , then you will know how the visit will progress .
Let them suggest meals together or outings .
If it becomes nasty , which I hope it won't , then just leave quietly .Do not engage in any mud slinging .
Tara , I know how you're feeling , however your DS will be there too , one friend in the camp !
Good luck and hug those babies for me .... :)
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Keys Girl on May 12, 2011, 04:01:17 AM
I don't have any grandchildren, but here are my suggestions.

1. Refuse to talk about politics and/or religion.  Those are both contentious subjects that will get blood boiling in some people until if flies out of their nose and ears.
2. Don't talk about anything to do about the care of the babies, which could be interpreted and unwelcome, unwanted advice and critical remarks.
3. When in doubt say "Oh, that's very interesting"......it's a neutral remark.
4. Take it in short shifts, like 2 hours at a time, and then retreat to the hotel for a hot bath.
5. Take lots and lots of photos, and say things to your DIL like "Oh, you are so photogenic"........while she is holding the babies, and then don't forget to zoom in on those precious little faces.
6. Have plan B, kayaking, whatever, a good book, in the case the DIL's hostility/insecurity flares up.
7. If she starts making hostile remarks, interrupt her constantly, "Excuse me, I forgot something in the car" and walk away.  Keep an extra little gift in the car just for these occasions.  Chocolate treats, etc. (Keep a dozen in there, you never know).

Good luck, I expect I may find myself in the same boat some day and pray that the Patience Fairy has come by to sprinkle some dust on me that week.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: pam1 on May 12, 2011, 05:25:47 AM
Ok, my first thought was don't, under any circumstances, show desperation.  Do not say you've missed them, do not give them gifts, do not take them out to the fancy dinners or expensive outings.  Not that I am saying you would but I can see how some grandparents in this position would be so happy to be included that they show their desperation by extravagance.

Since they requested  you stay in a hotel, I'd plan on only spending a couple hours at a time visiting them, not every waking moment.  Remember Tara, we don't want to show weakness lol, so a couple hours in the morning, couple in the afternoon etc.

Basically you are to play hard to get.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: LaurieS on May 12, 2011, 06:32:17 AM
Hi there Tara... it's been a while we were wondering how things were going in your life beyond the internet.

I have to disagree in part with Pam ... sorry about that Pam.. because I don't think giving a hug and saying that you missed them is a sign of desperation...I think you need to take the babies a gift, even if it's a check to contribute to their college saving acct.   You will not look like you are buying their love, or even buying the right to see the grandchildren. 

With the exception of #7, I pretty much think that Keys Girl is pretty dead on with her suggestions

More then anything Tara, be yourself... you have a lot to offer those babies and you are still trying to have a relationship with your own son... don't change your core self for anyone, especially someone who could be a little unbalanced as your dil is beginning to sound. 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: holliberri on May 12, 2011, 07:13:45 AM
Tara,

From what I gather from your story, you've done nothing but be very cautious throughout this very process. So...I would just say keep up the good work. I think you should just stay positive, and think of the hotel as a way for you to get a break. I think you'll be fine! Just don't let your nerves get the best of you in the time being! My nerves work me into a frenzy before a big event...it's so much better if I distract myself.

Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Rose799 on May 12, 2011, 07:41:10 AM
It seems like we dm's are supposed to give up all expectations, twist ourselves up like a pretzel so as to not offend, all the while being ourselves. 

What I normally do is make myself sick in preparation for what dd may throw my way.   Then once I arrive, it just takes one glimpse of gss' for all those pent up emotions to melt away.   This visit has been a long time coming, Tara, let your love flow.  Enjoy those precious baby girls & allow your ds see the dm he's been missing.  Just be Tara...   :)
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 12, 2011, 08:13:07 AM
I agree with Keys girl and Pam.  They gave some really good advice.  I love that you are staying in a hotel so that you can have somewhere to go.  I also think your backup plans are really good to have something for you to do in between some visits.  I am very excited for you to be able to see the babies, and I have every confidence in you that you will have a great time with them, while being able to rise above your DIL's attitude.  I also think it is great that your DS recognizes how she is and is still communicating with you.

I do think since the politics thing is such an issue with her, she may try to bring it up.  I would be prepared with a polite line like, "I am really glad you let me come see the babies.  I know we don't agree on that subject, so let's just concentrate on having a nice time and not discuss those issues."  Something like that.  Acknowledge what she is saying so she doesn't think you are not listening, but nicely refuse not to be baited into that conversation.

I do hope they let you know what they would like before you go, so you can relax and just go with the flow and smoochie those babies.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pen on May 12, 2011, 08:15:27 AM
Tara, it's good to hear from you. I understand your nervousness; we MILs have a lot to lose if things go poorly with our DILs, the stakes are high. I think KeysGirl's points are well-made. Planning in advance so you have strategies in place is a great idea. An "escape" plan will give you peace of mind. Kayaking is a good choice since it's relaxing but requires your full attention & gives you a workout (gotta love those endorphins!) I hope you have a wonderful visit!

About the predjudice your DIL has against people who don't believe the way she does politically or religiously: I understand how your already tenuous situation is made more so by your DIL's unbending position since I have a co-worker who is very closed-minded about differing opinions or beliefs. This person makes it extremely difficult for me to feel comfortable at the workplace & it takes a lot of energy to survive day to day. I refuse to engage, so I always feel as if I'm not being true to myself. And no, there's no way to avoid this person or complain without losing my job....kind of like in a family. I put on my armour, gird my loins (can I say loins?) and try to stay centered.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: pam1 on May 12, 2011, 08:40:59 AM
You don't have to say sorry for disagreeing with me Laurie.

I'm not saying don't give them anything at all.  Rather be cautious of over-doing it.  Just from reading here and other reuniting stories it seems to be a theme and the DS/DD use that as a reason to cease contact again.  Citing the MIL is being pushy and didn't learn anything from the estrangement.  It seems to be very common for the DIL in particular to be very insecure about the gifts in these type of situations.

In any case, it's just my 2 cents :)
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: LaurieS on May 12, 2011, 08:46:44 AM
Not trying to step on Mod's toes.. so I felt the upfront apology was acceptable.

Tara email me please when you have time
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: pam1 on May 12, 2011, 09:18:26 AM
I do see what you're doing Laurie. And I'm not the mod here.  It's not personal and you should know me better than that, I'm only doing my job.  Normally I would never say anything about these type of things and just ignore it -- but I am disappointed as your friend that you would chose to act like this after a simple two line warning. 

It's difficult enough doing this type of job with new people, it's extremely hard to navigate older posters, keep friendly relationships with our old posting buddies and at the same time still carry out our job effectively.  Be nice to your friends.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 12, 2011, 09:22:55 AM
Hello WW

Thanks very much for your support and suggestions. 

Pam, I get the point about the gifts and Laurie's too.  It feels complicated within myself as my DIL returned a gift
I sent her after the girls were born...yet just 2 months earlier sent me a sweet thank you card for the twin stroller I
bought for her and DS.  I have been thinking about what kind of gift to bring  and typically would never go for a visit to one of my
grandkids w/o one. 

It does seem like its a  balance between being my warm relatively easy going self and being cautious and as Pam says not showing desperation..

I think two hour shifts sound about right  LL and I'm interested to see what they will propose.  Usually, in the past we
have gone out to dinner one night in a nice restaurant.  Making things more complicated that if she decides to cook
she is a good Italian cook and I don't eat wheat, white sugar or cow dairy.  LOL I guess.  I'm going to mention this to
my son on the phone. 

Holly, yes I do need to not let my nerves get the best of me in the next week.  My sister and her partner are arriving tonight
for 3 days so that will be nice.

I've been totally out of touch as I have been working with my talented but very temperamental graphic artist on some pieces for my business and in addition we have a black mold problem in our bedroom that can cause neurological problems including MS , etc. etc.
Luckily when it appeared on the window seal again this winter I scooped it into a baggie and sent it off to a lab to be evaluated.
its been complicated and expensive to research the situation, hire a company and deal all the protocols to deal with black mold. 
Thank goodness it is about over and we only need one more sealant procedure all just in the nick of time for my sister and new
partner who I have never met to arrive this evening.   8) 8)  Its been wildly stressful

Pooh, I cut and pasted your line of what to say in case DIL brings up politics.  Thanks Keys Girl for your suggestions.  I don't think that she will bring up religions differences (me being Buddhist)  My DH is a Eucharistic minister for the Catholic church (he gives out the
wine and host on sunday)  her father does this too

Rose:  beautifully said about bending self in a pretzel to be accommodating and then at the same time 'be oneself'

Pen:  yes stakes are high and sounds like you know what its like to be around someone who getting along is required and yet views of the world are quite different.    One time I made the very big mistake of writing her a face book email and asking what her thoughts were when she wrote right after President Obama was elected that he was like Hitler.  Boy, I will never do that again.  Lesson learned.

Laurie:  Hi.  Thanks for our kind words about not changing my core self.  I do feel that I have allot to offer but its not seen by
this DIL.  Luckily I have my step daughters and dtr in laws.  My 7 year gd  is coming this summer for a visit and has asked if
she can come for 2 weeks.  This Dial totally supports our my ideas about what to do like river trips etc. and says we pamper
gd so much and she has a wonderful time.  she said that she went to back to school night and the teacher brought out a
paper gd wrote about 'my most special time' and she wrote about her visit with us last summer.  My dil said she was totally
surprised and is delighted. 

Well any way, thank you for your support and ideas.

Tara




Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: luise.volta on May 12, 2011, 09:23:04 AM
I admire you for trying. It feels like a lost cause to me in which you are seen as and treated as pond scum. A Liberal and a Buddhist? OMG! (Where did being a person and a grandmother go?) Those babies will catch in soon enough. I would keep my distance while keeping my door open to my son bringing them to see me if and when that works for him. If not...I would hold them in my heart and not enter into the emotional slaughterhouse your DIL has established. Sending love...
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: LaurieS on May 12, 2011, 09:25:01 AM
I'm not being unkind.. I am being polite.. please don't misunderstand the two.. and besides this topic is not about Laurie's feelings it's about Tara's so i will refrain from hijacking her posting.

Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: lancaster lady on May 12, 2011, 09:27:15 AM
I think Tara will find it very difficult to say anything to her DIL after receiving a poison pen letter .
She has hinted that she will b e cordial towards Tara , so I would be as equally cordial .
I would take gifts for the babies , they are your Grandchildren .As I said before a short visit each time and
focus , if you're allowed , on your GK's .
I found my DIL was distant on our first visit , and busied herself around the house . which suited me as I could spend
time with my GD . I think your DIL will be equally as nervous as you , breaking the ice will be difficult .
After the first few minutes , it will be fine .
Why invite you otherwise ?
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: LaurieS on May 12, 2011, 09:28:53 AM
Tara.... sounds like you have a game plan :)  But really don't get hung up in over evaluating this.  The goal is to meet your granddaughters, and spend sometime positive time with both your son and your dil... I think you out of all the people here can achieve that goal.  Have faith in "you" Tara.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 12, 2011, 09:31:35 AM
Tara, what if you didn't bring any gift with you, and just waited until you got there and asked DIL if there is something they need that you could take her to get or go get for them while you were there?    :-\

Oh bless your heart over the black mold.  That has to be horrible to deal with.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: luise.volta on May 12, 2011, 09:32:16 AM
Stop it, Laurie. Stop it, now!
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Keys Girl on May 12, 2011, 09:44:23 AM
Just a thought, I would bring a small gift for the babies and then a gift card to a large retailer.  She can spend the funds on whatever she wants for the babies and not be in a position to be critical of any gift that is brought.  I would never give cash to anyone who sent me a poison pen letter, the cynic in me says that it would be used for anything other than baby items.

Another thought is to open up an account for their college fund, but not tell anyone about it.  Leave instructions in your will to have a lawyer disburse the funds to the college if necessary, but make sure no funds are funneled to the poison pen writer.

Good luck, it must be awful to be on pins and needles with those babies, but if push comes to shove, you can join my trip to an orphanage in a remote, dusty and dirty country to hold a few babies, likely orphans.

Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: holliberri on May 12, 2011, 09:53:36 AM
I see I'm a little late to the party, but anyhow, I hope we can follow Keys' and Pooh's lead and get this topic back on track to supporting Tara. She's certainly always been able to find a way to offer support to all of us when we needed it. If not, I will lock it and open a new one for her.

I see the apologies, the reasons for the apologies and the personal feelings behind all of this as totally irrelevant when it comes to Tara's situation.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Scoop on May 12, 2011, 10:12:12 AM
Tara - I actually went back and found your posting about the poison pen letter.

I think you should go with the attitude that you've both done some hurtful things and that, without re-hashing the past, you're going to go forward cautiously.

For the food issue, I think you have to do your homework and find a take-out place near their house to supply you with food.  I would not expect them to take babies out to a restaurant (that's just too hard, especially with 2).  And if your DS hasn't asked you what you can eat, then it doesn't look like he's thinking about it (or worried about it).  DIL probably has too many other things on her plate to worry about - TWINS!  Eeek - I can't even imagine!

Whenever I have to bring a problem to someone's attention, I try to always bring a solution too.  SO in this case, you're telling DS that you have a problem with certain foods, but that the solution is just a phone call away.

There's no reason to discuss politics.  If it comes up, let them talk ... there's no use rolling in the mud with a pig, you'll both get dirty, but only the pig will enjoy himself.

As for religion, since you know more about theirs, then go with that.  Ask when they're going to have the girls Christened and praise their selection of Godparents.

I think that if you treat her like an acquaintance you can't go wrong.  It might be perceived as 'pushy' if you try to go for more than that.  So talk to her like you would talk to your hairdresser. 

Talk about the royal wedding (was she up with the babies while it was on?)
Talk about the awful weather & flooding that's been going on (Thank Goodness the rivers have crested!)
Talk about some of the 'different' customs / food in India (Foreigners!  Aren't they weird? j/k!)
Talk about the babies (Does DIL have any baby pictures of her own so we can see the resemblance?  Although, they already look like her!  Especially around the eyes/mouth/upper face/lower face.  Look how alert they are!  Aren't they just the most precious babies ever?)

ASIDE:  What was the gift DIL send back?  If we know what it is, maybe we can help you think of another type of gift to give.

I feel badly for you Tara, because I can see that your DIL *does* have the power here and it's hard to work around someone who's trying to be "like that".

Keep us posted!
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: elsieshaye on May 12, 2011, 11:06:14 AM
Tara, this is when the Buddhist compassionate detachment and metta practice may help a lot.  Not that it will change your DIL, but maybe give you a good cushion of peace to be able to ride through the weekend in, regardless of what she does. I think it's awesome that you are planning other things to do while down there, so that no matter what she does, you won't just be sitting in your hotel room fretting.  Sending you lots of support and warmth.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Nana on May 12, 2011, 02:33:13 PM
Tara

Just be the beautiful person you are.  Do not change that.  Be positive and disregard any negative comment.  Remember "Takes two to Tango".  I would only act natural and not be over-anxious....trying to please her.  Doesnt work this way, believe me.  I remember (long time ago) the harder I tried to buy dil's love (yes I was trying to buy her affection, I confess) the harder she pushed, and that left me with a sad empty feeling in my heart.   

Being the way you are Tara...everything will turn out just fine.  If it doesnt.....you will at least have peace knowing that you did the best you could, under the circumstances.

Love you
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: LaurieS on May 12, 2011, 02:37:13 PM
Quote from: Laurie on May 12, 2011, 09:28:53 AM
Tara.... sounds like you have a game plan :)  But really don't get hung up in over evaluating this.  The goal is to meet your granddaughters, and spend sometime positive time with both your son and your dil... I think you out of all the people here can achieve that goal.  Have faith in "you" Tara.

I did not want this to get lost Tara.. so I'm repeating it... good talking to you today.. get that mold problem taken care of .. that can sure be nasty stuff
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 12, 2011, 03:20:21 PM
I'm so grateful for your wise suggestions

Scoop, I love some of the topics you brought up to discuss and idea to get some food to bring, they have a
trader joes in the area and they have lots of food I like.  The gift my DIL sent back was a beautiful pair of
hand made earrings (in good taste and one of her two favorite colors)

Keys Girl,  good idea, Sm gift for girls and a gift card.  Also, Poohs Idea of getting a gift when there and have
had a chance to talk to dil and also get the lay of the land is a good option.

Luise, I read your post to my dh and he agreed, me too and that may be where we are headed.  I does feel
like it cold be an emotional slaughter house yet again and we will be on their terms, but then maybe there
is a possibility to have a distant but connected relationship.  My therapist says I have an issue of 'wishful thinking'

Elsieshaye:  Yes, good suggestions about mindfulness, detachment and metta/compassionate.  Also, meditation
and some yoga to stay on center.

One of the things I'm afraid of is that DIL  will do something weird like say I can only visit them at her parents house
or sisters house nearby.  I realize that this is possibly totally fear based thinking, but she has come out of left field
on attack in ways that I would have never guessed...I kind of feel like Luise's approach should probably be implemented at that point, that maybe its just better to go home.  Am I off base?  I recognize that this may be catastrophic thinking.

And someone suggested treating her like an acquaintance.  Good idea, being in the therapy business, I'm so used to be intimate with people, it just comes naturally.  My own therapist thinks part of the problem is that I am a therapist and that I will "see her" and her issues, so a more relaxed but not intimate approach seems good if I can keep remembering this..    I'm going to print out all your thoughts and bring them  Everyone I feel so blessed to have you as friends and community.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 12, 2011, 03:22:03 PM
Thanks for your supportive words, Laurie and Nana.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: luise.volta on May 12, 2011, 04:19:17 PM
We all have an issue with wishful thinking! Why wouldn't we hope and dream for better days/ We just can't sell out for them. Sending love...
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 12, 2011, 10:24:45 PM
Thanks for reminding me that.  Very grounding
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Scoop on May 13, 2011, 05:29:51 AM
Tara - one of the lessons I've learned with my MIL, is that you can't prepare for the "out of left field" things they throw at you.  If you don't think like that, you can't make yourself think like them.  So if you're preparing yourself for DIL to say that you can only visit at her M or S's house, she's going to throw something COMPLETELY different at you.

So stop giving yourself grief by trying to second guess her.  I'm sure it hurts you to think of DIL insisting that you visit at her M or S's house, but, in this case, this is something you're doing to yourself.

Instead, you should practice a few neutral lines, so that whatever she throws at you, you can shrug and say:

"I beg your pardon?"
"Maybe next time"
"That sounds like something you would say"
"Well that's one way to put it"
"Oh well"

Now, I wonder why she returned the earrings?  That seems weird to me.  It's her issue though, not yours.

Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: holliberri on May 13, 2011, 06:28:20 AM
Quote from: Scoop on May 13, 2011, 05:29:51 AM
"That sounds like something you would say"

Scoop...LOL...do you think this is a neutral line?

I use that when I'm in a passive aggressive mood. Does it depend on the delivery?

Seriously, though, I do think expecting the worst isn't always productive when you're dealing with a human. You can't know what the worst will be. In which case, practicing responses seems ideal...your responses would be general enough to be applied to many different scenarios. I think that might be best. After all, I suppose it's only our reactions we can control
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 13, 2011, 06:32:33 AM
I think we also had another thread discussing when people used the  "oh well" and how many people found that condescending?
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: LaurieS on May 13, 2011, 07:01:06 AM

Quote from: Scoop on May 13, 2011, 05:29:51 AM
"That sounds like something you would say"

I can see Scoop calling that neutral :)

The phrases 'oh well' and 'whatever' yeah those don't go over to well either.  Tara I do agree, don't dwell on the worse case scenario.. when you go to a movie theater and are about to seat yourself, we tend to glance for the exit signs... just in case  there is an emergency but then you go on to enjoy the movie without another thought.  You already have your safe harbor so no need to allow any darkness ruin your first meeting with your grandchildren.


Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Scoop on May 13, 2011, 07:32:44 AM
Ah but "That sounds like something you would say" is the PERFECT answer!

If the person INTENDED it as something nice, then it means "Oh you're so sweet, you always say sweet things!".  If the person intended it as a dig, then it's a case of "You're mean and you say mean things."  So, if you say "That sounds like something you would say", then you get to see exactly what the person intended.  And if they get mad, you can even explain that YOU didn't say anything bad.

As for "oh well" - imagine if Tara's DIL came out with some edict "Thou shalt only see the babies at my Mom's house."  - now, Tara has 2 options 1) she says something out of anger / disappointment  (or says NOTHING and builds up some resentment) or 2) she says "Oh well" and leaves it hanging.  This gives her a few seconds to come up with an answer: "maybe next time we'll get some time with just us and you guys" or "if that's what it takes, I'm just excited to meet these little ladies!"

My point was that Tara's DIL will likely NOT throw the curve ball that Tara is trying to anticipate.  It will be a completely DIFFERENT curve ball.  So instead of giving her the advice of saying "If that's what it takes, I'm just excited to meet these little ladies", I wanted to give her the advice of saying " oh well" or something similar, to buy her time to think of a response to DIL saying something like "You have to wear a hospital isolation suit to handle the babies".
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: holliberri on May 13, 2011, 07:51:10 AM
I don't think what you say in response anything to do with the intention behind what the other person says. I'm pretty sensitive, and I interpret a lot of  what other people say to be a swipe at me when it may or may not be. Leaving me to do the guess work about what I might or might not have said and and how exactly you interpreted my words isn't really neutral. It invalidates my feelings on the topic (whatever I said) and it actually closes communication. I think that would in turn, make DIL (however awful she might be) a little more willing to take jabs at me. I'm not sure it leaves much room for understanding and it might give the person I'm communicating with reason not to see things my way.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pen on May 13, 2011, 08:04:23 AM
I've had a little practice dealing with zingers out of left field. My SM is brilliant, manipulative & calculating. She loves to catch me when I'm busy or distracted. A dear friend suggested saying, "I'll get back to you in a minute" or "Let me think about that" before leaving the room (ostensibly to fetch something or use the rr?) for some reflection time away from the source of stress. I return when I've come up with a thoughtful, confident response or have a strategy to redirect and avoid the issue entirely.

Game playing obviously is not my forte. IMO, some of the people we must deal with are really good at it and somehow know they've got a sucker. We need to be able to deflect their attempts to engage us in hopeless cycles that most likely will cause frustration and sorrow.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: elsieshaye on May 13, 2011, 08:07:15 AM
Here's how I envision detachment working with the curve balls:

Whatever she does, go into it with the attitude of "I want to see my granddaughters - anything else that happens is beside the point, and is just background noise."  Letting yourself indulge in the what if scenarios just ramps up your anxiety, but doesn't actually give you any concrete tools or solutions to manage the actual events.  It makes it more likely that you'll react in a way you later wish you hadn't, because you'll be acting out of anxiety and pre-loaded anger.  If you can go into it with an attitude of curiosity and acceptance, "this will be interesting, I wonder what will happen" and "she'll do whatever she does, and it's all ok", or as close to that as you can come, it will make the whole thing less fraught and angsty.  Because, really, you have zero control over her actions and decisions, and no expectation you have will really be accurate or prepare you for what actually happens.  It might help if one of your meditations involves "all is well, no matter what happens" and some loving kindness towards yourself.  No matter what happens, no matter what she asks of you, you will be ok.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: holliberri on May 13, 2011, 08:09:37 AM
Pen,

It's not mine either. I can't do it, and I don't like it when people do it to me. I usually need a time out.

Elsie, that seems like a really prudent approach. I think that is what helped me survive Mother's Day. It didn't matter what happened, it really didn't.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: LaurieS on May 13, 2011, 08:10:22 AM
good points Elsieshaye
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 13, 2011, 08:13:12 AM
I think that's great advice Elsieshaye...although this coming from the girl that always had a GF on alert to call during a date to see if I needed an exit strategy  :D
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: holliberri on May 13, 2011, 08:14:11 AM
Quote from: Pooh on May 13, 2011, 08:13:12 AM
I think that's great advice Elsieshaye...although this coming from the girl that always had a GF on alert to call during a date to see if I needed an exit strategy  :D
In the words of Snookie

"You can't live without girlfriends."

I've found this to be true.

And what is the matter with an exit strategy?
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: luise.volta on May 13, 2011, 08:27:44 AM
One thing is clear, you aren't going alone. The whole Tribe is going with you! Sending love...
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 13, 2011, 08:35:53 AM
That is heartening Luise.

I couldn't live w/o my girlfriends (or sister friends)  either.

I'm appreciating this dialogue amongst my sisters.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 13, 2011, 08:59:41 AM
Well WWU Tribe would definately fit in with our WWU war calls!
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: jill on May 13, 2011, 10:12:26 AM
Hi Tara,
Lots of wonderful advice here, I don't have anything to add, I hope everything goes well and you have a great time, be sure to enjoy those beautiful little girls.
I am going to be faced with a somewhat similar situation next weekend, it is gd's birthday party and I will have to confront odd after 3 months of not speaking.  She will not treat me badly in front of her inlaws, but who knows what she will say afterwards.
Anyway Tara, best wishes.............Jill 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 13, 2011, 11:40:56 AM
Jill,  Thanks, and best wishes with your gd birthday party!
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 15, 2011, 08:58:51 PM

Elsie,

I am very appreciative for your mindful/spiritual/buddhist angle on my issue.  Remembering acceptance and that all is well
no matter what happens brings me back to myself or as Thich Nhat Hanh says "my true home"  also, doing so loving kindness
to myself and other such suggestions strike a deep cord...

I appreciate everyones suggestions and support

Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: elsieshaye on May 16, 2011, 09:59:25 AM
You're welcome, Tara.  I swear, if it weren't for loving kindness meditation, I'd be in a lot of trouble, lol.  It really makes such a huge difference in pretty much everything to be able to be kind and accepting of yourself as well as other people.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 16, 2011, 11:22:02 AM
Elsie,

You are so right and also wise.  I've done alot of loving kindness meditation and forgiveness work in my life
and its been transformative, but I've forgotten  to do it for myself under these circumstances!   ;- )
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 16, 2011, 03:14:40 PM
Hello WW,

I wanted to give you a brief update on the trip.

I had sent my ds an email asking how they would like the weekend to go and when and where they would like to
get together.   Today I got an email follow up with a plan that we would come to ds and dil's house on friday and then go
out to dinner, then spend a few hours at their house on saturday and then just ds and I going out to breakfast on
sunday morning.  Sounds good to me.

I waited till I wasn't feeling anxious to follow up on my request for a plan and was able to talk lovingly and frankly
to ds on email and he also responded w/o any hostility or defensiveness.  I like it that he wants to spend a little alone
time with me.  I'm making a committment to speak my truth with him but to do it in a skillful way.   I also found a
cute gift for the grandgirls.

Still doesn't mean things won't go wrong or as Luise says become an Emotional Slaughter house, it could happen
but I have an exit plan that I can take a 2 hr drive and stay at my sisters hse with dh  I also have a very close friend
in the area ds lives.



Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: lancaster lady on May 16, 2011, 03:24:54 PM
Tara......I'm so pleased for you .....they have planned a pleasant weekend for you .hope all goes well .
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: holliberri on May 16, 2011, 03:30:12 PM
Tara, this is good news! I think your waiting until your anxiousness passed is advice I should follow myself.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: luise.volta on May 16, 2011, 03:34:22 PM
I'm all for being 100% wrong!!! (And I admit to being a little overprotective.) Sending love...
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: pam1 on May 16, 2011, 03:38:55 PM
Awww Tara!  I'm so happy for you, I have a terrific feeling about your weekend :)  Can't wait to see you update.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pen on May 16, 2011, 06:49:22 PM
Tara, what good news. You've got exit strategies JIC, but it sounds as if everyone is trying to make it work. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: AnonymousDIL on May 17, 2011, 07:57:18 AM
Yay,Tara!!! I'm glad you'll be able to spend some one-on-one time with him. That's wonderful. We will all keep our fingers crossed that nothing goes sour and it is a pleasant visit. :-)
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 17, 2011, 08:01:11 AM
Thanks for your good wishes and kind words
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 17, 2011, 08:02:58 AM
That's great Tara!  It also sounds like they are being very generous with their time too.  I'm so happy for you!  I hope you have a great visit!
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: overwhelmed123 on May 17, 2011, 01:13:15 PM
Will be thinking about you, Tara! 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 17, 2011, 01:37:05 PM
thank you thank you!
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 23, 2011, 09:59:11 PM
Hello Wise Women,

Just back from s. california and visit to granddaughters, dil and ds.  I'm so appreciative of all your support.
While the trip was scary at times given some past history, all in all I'd say it went pretty well.  My dil was
cordial on first day, if a little distant  and on our second day warm and friendly.  Our granddaughters are lovely and dh and I felt very happy getting to hold and feed them and generally get to know them.  Ds alternated from being engaging and withdrawn. 

The only troubling time was in the car  coming home from dinner with ds and dh.  Ds started talking about some of the issues re: prior misunderstandings with dil.  The discussion went reasonably well except for a couple of comments I'm still annoyed about...I was afraid after that that dil and ds would confer (ds is excellent at stirring up conflict between people) and the last day there wouldn't be pleasant or worse even, but not the case.  We hung out all afternoon, had take out food and dh is quite the family ambassador, he loves kids and babies and is excellent with them.

I'm back home now and brought home a cold, probably from airplane air.

xx

Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: elsieshaye on May 24, 2011, 06:34:59 AM
Tara, I think it went really well, considering everything.  Welcome back home, and hope your cold is better soon.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: pam1 on May 24, 2011, 06:41:02 AM
Tara, I think it went well also. 

Ick, airplane colds, have you tried zicam? 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: holliberri on May 24, 2011, 06:55:17 AM
Tara, I think it went better than a few of us were expecting!  :)

I'm so glad you enjoyed yourself for the most part. Baby steps seems to be the trick for all of us, I suppose.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: AnonymousDIL on May 24, 2011, 07:05:20 AM
I am so happy it went well, Tara. I hope your DS doesn't try to stir up more trouble between you and DIL. I bet those babies were the most beautiful you've ever seen!
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: lancaster lady on May 24, 2011, 10:11:04 AM
Tara:
Get well soon ....maybe all the stress reduced your immunity ,plenty rest and fluids .
There is nothing better than your GC in your arms , hope the next visit comes soon before they grow too much .. :)
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 24, 2011, 10:56:15 AM
So glad to hear it went well Tara.  I truly think that visit will set up future visits to not be so stressful.  Feel better soon!
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 24, 2011, 12:22:11 PM
Thank you WW   

xx
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Sassy on May 24, 2011, 01:36:20 PM
Congratulations on your excellent visit.   How wise you were able to ignore DS comments, so he would have nothing to twist or bring back to DIL, should they have conferred.   Maybe he wanted to or she just wanted him to say something, and having said it, could relax.  What a wonderful experience.   

PS  I always catch an airplane cold.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 24, 2011, 01:57:59 PM
Sassy,

I do think that ds wanted to talk to me and took the time in the car coming home to do so  He invited me to breakfast but we had to leave earlier than expected to catch a flight so he took  this moment to talk.  I do think ds likes to "stir the pot" so to speak, my dh was there and this was his thought as well.  He also did confide that DIL had very bad postpartum when she wrote me the  poison pen letter and that they(ds and dil)  'almost didn't make it" due to that (her post partum)   He confided other things as well. 

I'm hoping that a  more peaceful foundation is laid for future visits but you never know....A friend pointed out today that I can't ever be sure what will happen with dil and ds.

Yes, this cold is annoying...my stepdaughter always gets colds when she travels as well.  I'm trying to take my own advice which is to rest which seems to help get well quicker.  LL I think you are right that my immune system was probably down.  I've made some ginger honey lemon tea and am taking some herbs and vit c

thanks for your support.
xx Tara
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: jill on May 24, 2011, 03:06:38 PM
Hi Tara,
So glad everything went well with your visit.  It must have been wonderful spending time with those beautiful babies. 
My gd's birthday party went well, except odd pretty well ignored me, still there were plenty of other people there to talk to, and I got to spend time with gd.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 24, 2011, 03:39:12 PM
Hi Jill,

Good to hear from you and about your gd bday party.  I'm glad there were others to talk to,  that makes a
difference.  I don't recall how far from odd you live. 

It was so sweet spending time with the girls.  Received a request from ds which was ok but also tagged to a criticism.  My ds told me dil was offended that I didn't write about gd's on my facebook.  He asked me to put some photos up there....I'm going to do it, but I hope that my stepdaughter and other dil isn't offended because I didn't do that with them.  Usually they post and I comment.   ds says dil  said it was a sign that I didn't care and only put photos of India after my trip.  She never sent me any photos on face book  but couldn't I guess as  I 'hid' her a while back when I found she said such offensive and inflammatory things politically and it was too much. 
    Also, I wasn't invited to the birth or to the house until now which was 4 months later.  I didn't mind that but
wonder what her thoughts are she also wrote me a poison pen letter and returned a gift I sent her of some beautiful
earrings.  My dear friend calls them his and her highness.  LOL.

    A friend on wwu made a good point about it being difficult when one person speaks for another. 

best wishes


Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pen on May 24, 2011, 08:19:30 PM
Welcome home, Tara. All things considered, it sounds as if the visit went well. Holding babies is a nice way to spend some time. Sorry about the cold :(  Another lovely benefit of air travel these days..

Your DIL is hurt because you didn't post pics of the babies on FB, but most DILs here have expressed their opposition to GPs doing so w/o permission. Interesting, especially since she wasn't hospitable to you when the babies were first born....it must be a bit confusing for you. I would have thought for sure your DIL was of the "don't post pics" opinion.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pen on May 24, 2011, 08:21:05 PM
Oh Jill, I'm glad the birthday went well! ODD missed out, her loss. I'm happy you could spend time with your GD and friends.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 24, 2011, 09:06:24 PM
Hi Pen,

yes a little confusing....I was concerned about posting photos too and was going to ask her about that till DS said
"post pictures on facebook!"  Ok   no problem.  How are you?
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 25, 2011, 06:36:54 AM
Then don't forget we have had advice from DIL's too that even if DS says to do it, should you truly do it?  (I forget who's DS let her have the ultrasound pic and then DIL was very mad that she shared it with a friend and told her to delete it?)

It's no wonder we are so dang confused!!  Ok, I said that because we always try to learn, but I would put them up once my DS said he wanted me to.  I don't check with someone's hubby or wife to see if what they said was true.  I don't play that game. That would be between them now.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: pam1 on May 25, 2011, 07:15:56 AM
Oh now that is confusing Tara.  I've heard of people being upset their kids pictures were on someones facebook but never that they were not.

I remain ever so grateful to not have a page lol.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 25, 2011, 09:00:53 AM
I put 3 photos on last night.  It was odd I felt I was forced to do it.

a friend also sent me a brief article about postpartum depression in older moms (whch my dil
and ds both talked about on our visit) and I was surprised at what I read.  It made her poison
pen letter to me at that time make a little more sense, even if she had a moderate case of it
my ds said it was pretty bad.

http://www.examiner.com/early-childhood-parenting-in-denver/are-older-mothers-are-more-likely-to-suffer-from-severe-postpartum-depression 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Rose799 on May 25, 2011, 06:54:02 PM
Quote from: Tara on May 24, 2011, 01:57:59 PM
He also did confide that DIL had very bad postpartum when she wrote me the  poison pen letter and that they(ds and dil)  'almost didn't make it" due to that (her post partum)   He confided other things as well. 

That explains a lot, Tara.  I had a little postpartum trouble also, but thought the problem was all dh. : )  That was, until I went back on the pill.  Dh was ever so thankful!!! 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 25, 2011, 07:45:46 PM
Hi Rose,

Very interesting.  How old were you? 
So going on the pill balanced out the hormones?

i noticed that when I was menopausal taking natural progestrone sure settled my emotions
and physical well being.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Rose799 on May 25, 2011, 08:03:46 PM
I was just 26, Tara.  I mentioned being emotional & moody to my gyn & she put me on the pill.  I felt tremendous improvement, almost immediately.  It had to be hormonal as that was the only change.  I'm glad I didn't wait any longer.  Dd was 3 1/2 mos...
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 25, 2011, 08:06:12 PM
Thanks Rose.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pen on May 26, 2011, 12:21:14 AM
I can relate. Loved being on bio-identical HRT! Wish I could've stayed on forever, but they frown on that. Before that I used the wild yam cream from the health food store. I should try it again.

Tara, to answer your question a few posts back, I'm doing fine!
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 26, 2011, 07:00:35 AM
glad to hear that Pen.

Wish we could all get together for a potluck!
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: lancaster lady on May 26, 2011, 08:35:45 AM
Tara :

You know all about how Facebook can cause riots , so please be careful .
I do not post anything on my f/DIL page ever , as thats how all my troubles started .
In fact I never read her FB page at all now in case I perhaps misinterpret something .
I'm sure as your DS asked you it's ok , but please be careful .
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pen on May 26, 2011, 08:48:15 AM
Yup, bad FB! Bad! LOL

Wouldn't a potluck be lovely? What would you bring?
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 26, 2011, 11:36:33 AM
I know LL 
I actually 'hid' dil as I couldn't take some of her political provacation.

But my son did ask me to do it and he went online and under the photo of myself and one of the girls
wrote:  "You like like a proud grandmother".
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pen on May 26, 2011, 02:17:28 PM
Aw, that's so sweet! Best wishes on continued progress, dear Tara.

I know we holdouts miss a lot, and it does irritate me that DS & DIL told me NOT to use FB...kinda brings out the rebel in me, LOL. But I'm not secure enough yet to give it a try.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: lancaster lady on May 26, 2011, 02:25:58 PM
I use it to keep in touch with friends and family , and you can hide messages from those you would rather
not see .
As I said before , used carefully and not maliciously , it's fun !
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 26, 2011, 06:37:19 PM
You know, one thing that was interesting to me is that my stepchildren and grandkids from dh side of the family made alot
of sweet comments and congrats.  Heart warming.

Pen, I don't remember exactly why ds and dil don't want you to have a facebook? 

LL:  use use with caution is right.  Also, I think somepeople can just be annoying.  This is just silly on my
part but my adult granddaughter on dh side is a very interesting young woman with a degree in Womens Studies and
Anthropology but she puts a steady stream of things like her horoscope, go giants, go giants, go giants.  yeah Giants!
nothing that reflects how smart and interesting she is.  Maybe its an age and peer group thing.

Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: holliberri on May 26, 2011, 07:12:05 PM
I think it is an age and peer group thing for sure. Plus, for the most part, mine reflects my mood. Sometimes that means intellectual, other times that means all I am worried about is the Phillies! I've noticed that when a topic is trending among certain factions of my friends list...everyone says the same thing. Sports games are a big one...the tornadoes for my friends in the South have been another (as they should be). The Royal Wedding was a big one too.

I've had FB for 5 (6?) years now, and while I'm not interested in myself to go back and read through my original status updates...I am certain they have changed a lot. Hopefully...for the better, lol.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pen on May 26, 2011, 10:32:33 PM
Quote from: Tara on May 26, 2011, 06:37:19 PM
...Pen, I don't remember exactly why ds and dil don't want you to have a facebook?.... 

Tara, I don't know for sure. It's funny that they are both friends on FB with some of my friends in real life, so they must know I'm getting the latest updates anyway.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 26, 2011, 11:00:48 PM
Pen:  well thats very interesting.  I'm glad you are getting the 'latest"   :)

Holly:  The Phillies!  I didn't realize there were trends.  Always love to hear your take on things.

I must admit that my gd has alot of photos of herself and her girlfriends which is nice.  I noticed recently she  also has
a huge! artistic tattoo from shoulder to elbow.  I guess I'll be more used to it when I see it in person. What do you think about young women having large exposed tattoos?  I tend to worry about their careers.   LOL  I'm so older generation I guess. 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: pam1 on May 27, 2011, 05:27:05 AM
Quote from: Tara on May 26, 2011, 06:37:19 PM

LL:  use use with caution is right.  Also, I think somepeople can just be annoying.  This is just silly on my
part but my adult granddaughter on dh side is a very interesting young woman with a degree in Womens Studies and
Anthropology but she puts a steady stream of things like her horoscope, go giants, go giants, go giants.  yeah Giants!
nothing that reflects how smart and interesting she is.  Maybe its an age and peer group thing.

She sounds too smart to be a giants fan.   ;D j/k

I understand what you're saying.  FB sort of reminds me of those journals we had to write in every morning in 5th grade.  I remember thinking back then well how much more can I say?  There's nothing left lol.

But I think it really is a social network for a lot of people. 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 27, 2011, 05:36:28 AM
I'm like Holly, my status usually relects my mood.  Sometimes that's intellectual, sometimes just plain goofy!  Sometimes it's one word if I'm having a bad day like, "DRATS".  I have posted about current events (Like it read two days ago:  I think Scotty and Lauren just need to go ahead and admit they like each other and do an album together....)

I'm so trendy.....
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: LaurieS on May 27, 2011, 05:47:47 AM
I give who is Scotty and Lauren?

Tara.... I'm not real fond of tattoos either.... I know this is not proper but I think the term Tramp Stamp is well earned.. but here is a site for that wonderful body art that is considered to be in good taste  http://www.tattoo.com/
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 27, 2011, 06:19:25 AM
American Idol and thanks for telling me I earned my tattoo.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: lancaster lady on May 27, 2011, 06:27:38 AM
You know my FB history ....
When I asked f/dil why she couldn't text or phone me news or dates , she replied that's how she did
things letting people know through FB .
I agree for friends etc , but to declare your DS's wedding date before telling his FOO , that's when its wrong IMO .

Tattoos : I think a small tasteful one can be quite alluring ...lol however when it's a whole body thing ....fine when you're
young , but don't the pictures become wrinkly with old age ?...lol  ;D
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: holliberri on May 27, 2011, 06:31:27 AM
I just googled Scotty and Lauren...and American Idol came up. Just a guess, lol.

Tattoos...fine for everyone else (unless I'm hiring them and they have a tat crawling up their neck, sorry to say), and lol...I couldn't think of one that would be career appropriate, mom appropriate, or age appropriate for me. I guess some things are just not my thing. I think some of them are very pretty and creative though, and I think they definitely show personality. I just  never had enough personality for one, I suppose.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: holliberri on May 27, 2011, 06:43:54 AM
I remember I went with my mom to get hers. It was liberating for her. It's also right in the middle of the back. She faced a fear of pain that day. I thougth that was cool.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 27, 2011, 06:51:58 AM
Yes, it is a personal choice.  I have two, one on the inside of shoulder blade, so I can wear sleeveless or tank tops and you still can't see it.  The other is called a "Tramp Stamp" by many, even though that is a generalization.  It's on my lower back, low enough that even low-rise jeans cover it.

The one on my shoulder I got at age 30, it's winnie the pooh.  Holds special meaning for me.  The other, I designed and drew myself and also holds special meaning. I got it just last year.

I have two but I agree that in a professional environment, I don't like them climbing necks or behind ears, or anywhere that you can't cover them.  I got mine where they would show unless I wanted them to.

It doesn't bother me that some people don't like them as I do believe they are personal choice.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: LaurieS on May 27, 2011, 06:57:23 AM
of course Tramp Stamp a generalized term, it's not like I just made it up.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 27, 2011, 07:06:49 AM
You gave your opinion on that you thought it was well earned, I gave my opinion that it is a generalization.  End of story, not playing your word games.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: LaurieS on May 27, 2011, 07:18:28 AM
Not playing word games.. but it won't happen again.. promise
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: holliberri on May 27, 2011, 07:21:06 AM
Let's try to stay away from generalizations. They can be really hurtful and for the most part, totally inaccurate.

Besides, I was just thinking to myself that maybe Stevie Nicks is so good of an artist that she warrants some small shrine on my body. Maybe I'll get a tambourine on my ankle.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 27, 2011, 07:30:30 AM
I actually don't want another one, but I do want to go back and expand on my custom one a little bit.  I think it needs more color.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: pam1 on May 27, 2011, 07:41:07 AM
I have two as well.  Might get a few more sometime down the road.  I'm not a fan of wearing jewelry all the time and I'm so afraid I'm going to lose my wedding set -- that I've been thinking about getting some kind of tat on my ring finger.  And then some of my siblings have been talking about getting our family shield done as a group.

Neck and face tats don't bother me.  I wouldn't personally put one there, the aging process would concern me lol. 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 27, 2011, 08:15:54 AM

There are some really beautiful tattoos.  DS had his xwifes name on his arm from 30 years ago and had it covered by a
talented artist in Berkeley into a beautiful dragon.  Back in the 70's when a few friends got tatoos I thought of getting a
feather on my ankle, now adays when I think of getting a tattoo, I think instead I should get permanent make up on my
eyes - a different kind of tattoo.

Holly was saying that the fb posts aften flow through a generational theme and I wonder if this period of many people getting
tattoos is a (multi) generational trend as well. 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pen on May 27, 2011, 08:18:33 AM
Quote from: lancaster lady on May 27, 2011, 06:27:38 AM

.....Tattoos : I think a small tasteful one can be quite alluring ...lol however when it's a whole body thing ....fine when you're
young , but don't the pictures become wrinkly with old age ?...lol  ;D

LL, I've always been afraid of that, LOL, so I never got one but was tempted many times. Now I'm afraid I've gone beyond the expiration date, so to speak. They'd have to charge double to tat me since they'd have to cover more territory what with all the hills and valleys.

They look good on Becks, though...
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 27, 2011, 08:31:53 AM
Ha ha.  I thought about the aging thing when I got mine, but I figured if my DH still wants to look at my wrinkly aging skin then it might as well be colorful wrinkles for him to look at!  I'll just claim its a van gogh by then.

Tara I think it's probably a bit of that but also more accepted now to have them.  Although I think back now when I was young and it was almost a sin not to have one if you were a serviceman....weird.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 27, 2011, 09:17:11 AM
Quote from: pam1 on May 27, 2011, 07:41:07 AM
  I'm not a fan of wearing jewelry all the time and I'm so afraid I'm going to lose my wedding set -- that I've been thinking about getting some kind of tat on my ring finger. 

Where my DH works, there is tons of machinery (3,500 pp)  so they are not allowed to wear any rings, not even wedding rings.  He was just telling me a couple of months ago that many of them are getting tattooed wedding bands, men and women. 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: pam1 on May 27, 2011, 09:17:53 AM
I thought tattoos were a very old and ancient art.  Goes back way back in many cultures.

Today it is used a bit differently and rules are not so rigid about who can get what and when lol.  We can choose what we want or if we even want them.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: pam1 on May 27, 2011, 09:20:44 AM
Quote from: Pooh on May 27, 2011, 09:17:11 AM
Quote from: pam1 on May 27, 2011, 07:41:07 AM
  I'm not a fan of wearing jewelry all the time and I'm so afraid I'm going to lose my wedding set -- that I've been thinking about getting some kind of tat on my ring finger. 

Where my DH works, there is tons of machinery (3,500 pp)  so they are not allowed to wear any rings, not even wedding rings.  He was just telling me a couple of months ago that many of them are getting tattooed wedding bands, men and women.

That's a good idea.  I'm really thinking about it b/c I'm constantly taking mine off.  I already lost a few stones in one ring and got a lecture from the jeweler about not wearing it while washing dishes, gardening, laundry etc.  So great, I just know one of these days I'm going to take it off to do something and lose it or one of the dogs might eat it lol.  I now wear just a simple band and have the rings in a safebox for now.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 27, 2011, 09:46:56 AM
I like the idea too, but I can't decide if it's wise.  What if something happened and you were not married any longer?  Not being negative about anyone's marriage, but it happens.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: pam1 on May 27, 2011, 09:55:21 AM
Yeah, I thought about that too.  I guess I would just have something tatted over it lol.  Although everyone would know what is was.  Maybe they have flesh colored tattoos.  Or have it laser removed.

It does seem like once you mark your body with a loved ones name that the relationship dies lol
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 27, 2011, 10:19:23 AM
You're right, it does.  I always figured if you had a name, you could find something that would cover it nicely (like Tara's did).  It just seems like it would be hard to cover a wedding band on a finger with not much real estate. 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: seasons on May 27, 2011, 06:54:41 PM
Quote from: Pooh on May 27, 2011, 09:17:11 AM
Where my DH works, there is tons of machinery (3,500 pp)  so they are not allowed to wear any rings, not even wedding rings.  He was just telling me a couple of months ago that many of them are getting tattooed wedding bands, men and women.

Been racking my brains and using google.  Can't figure it out.  What machinery is 3500 pp?
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: luise.volta on May 27, 2011, 07:16:48 PM
i went to a summer wedding where one of Val's grandsons got married. Another grandson, his brother, was in the wedding party and his live-in girlfriend wasn't. She sat behind us and had a really pretty dress on but you could see a tattoo coming down her arm. At the reception she was wearing a black winter coat over her dress.

I got close to getting one a few years back but I chickened out. I'm such a wimp. It would not have been visible but it would have been fun. I picked a little butterfly.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 29, 2011, 03:04:20 PM
Quote from: seasons on May 27, 2011, 06:54:41 PM
Quote from: Pooh on May 27, 2011, 09:17:11 AM
Where my DH works, there is tons of machinery (3,500 pp)  so they are not allowed to wear any rings, not even wedding rings.  He was just telling me a couple of months ago that many of them are getting tattooed wedding bands, men and women.

Been racking my brains and using google.  Can't figure it out.  What machinery is 3500 pp?

Sorry seasons, didn't mean to cause you brain fry.  Where he works, there is tons of machinery and 3,500 people that work there.  You would all know the company, so will understand how much machinery is there....Little Debbie.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 29, 2011, 03:07:47 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on May 27, 2011, 07:16:48 PM
i went to a summer wedding where one of Val's grandsons got married. Another grandson, his brother, was in the wedding party and his live-in girlfriend wasn't. She sat behind us and had a really pretty dress on but you could see a tattoo coming down her arm. At the reception she was wearing a black winter coat over her dress.

I got close to getting one a few years back but I chickened out. I'm such a wimp. It would not have been visible but it would have been fun. I picked a little butterfly.

That's why I had mine placed where I could cover them easily.  I used to have to wear dresses where I worked, quite often so I didn't want them seen.  I don't have a problem looking at someones tattoos, but others do and consider it unprofessional.  My YS actually just sent me a picture of his first one (I figured it was coming since all his military buddies had been getting them).  I was actually pleasantly surprised it was a religious symbol and words. 

I almost got a butterfly the first time!
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: willingtohelp on May 29, 2011, 03:59:45 PM
I had my eye liner and lipstick tatooed on.  I like sleep, and anything that gave me a few extra minutes in the morning was great.  And it's saved me a fortune on lipstick.  My preferred color was costing $23 a tube years ago, probably more today.  Now I just need a tube of chapstick to make my lips look moist. 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: luise.volta on May 29, 2011, 04:09:13 PM
Hey, Clover, Hi! I am thinking about having my eyebrows done. Mine have disappeared. I just wish I didn't have to go so far to do it. Over 100 miles round trip and into dense traffice which I no longer handle well. (I can just see myself asking Kirk to take me!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 29, 2011, 04:26:46 PM
Hi Luise,

There is an excellent guy in your area in olympia (I think) I had him do my eyebrows after having them done by
someone else and didn't like the color, etc.  He's excellent!  and it doesn't hurt.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 30, 2011, 08:28:01 AM
Ok I have to ask, because I have thought about it, does it not hurt badly to have the eyeliner done?
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: holliberri on May 30, 2011, 08:30:56 AM
Plus, aren't you watching them tattoo it on? Like watching the needle come towards your eye? I think I wouldneed general anastasia! Lol.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 30, 2011, 08:33:52 AM
I know Holly, I would need a sedative just to have them working around my eyes.  I hate that stupid puff of air in the eye doctor's exam...lol.  But I would really consider doing it simply because I hate applying eyeliner every morning.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 30, 2011, 08:34:10 AM
Pooh,

I'd like to hear Clovers experience too.  I did hear that having that tattoo devise so close to your eyeball takes some getting used to.  But probably its dependent on who does it.  I had a lot of pain with my eyebrows when done here locally but when redone up in washington with this really talented guy, it really didn't hurt, it maybe dependent on what they put on to numb?  not sure.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 30, 2011, 08:39:17 AM
I do think it depends on the talent of the artist.  My shoulder one was done by a guy that had been doing it for 30 years, and didn't really hurt at all, but my lower back (although they say it's more painful) was torture in some areas.  It was a young guy that had only been doing it a couple of years.  My GFs that got ones in the same area, said yes it was a little painful in some areas, but not what as bad as what I was describing mine was.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: lancaster lady on May 30, 2011, 09:20:58 AM
I never feel my acupuncture needles going in , but then its an electric needle they use , like a miniature
pneumatic drill ! lol
My friend had a nipple tattooed after breast reconstruction , it's amazing what they can do .
Think around the eyes might be a bit harmful ....I'm just a scaredy cat !
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: willingtohelp on May 30, 2011, 03:39:05 PM
It was about as weird as having a make up artist apply eyeliner for you.  Anytime someone has something near your eyes it's a little nerve wracking, but it wasn't too bad. 

It didn't really hurt, it actually just itched a bit.  And the scabbiness for a few days afterwards was the worst part about it.  I got a light gray near my eyes so it wasn't too noticable if I didn't feel like doing full eye make up (like at the gym) but noticable if I did combine it with mascara.  For the lipstick, I got the closest I could get to my preferred color because I put on chapstick religiously. 
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 30, 2011, 07:02:02 PM
Clover,

Great to hear your experience.  I REALLY intent to get it done esp since I found this talented guy in washington.
I've grown out my white hair so I think that this will be a nice complement.  When I look at my pictures before my
more recent permanenet eyebrows what a difference!    I've read that if you grow out your gray/white hair you have
to take extra steps for a little 'pop' lol and not look to ancient.

I just have to save the money it costs a bout 550.00 to get top and bottom done by this guy.

Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: pam1 on May 30, 2011, 07:39:33 PM
Tara, white/gray hair is absolutely gorgeous IMO.  There was a lady I remember from church growing up who had the most stunning white hair, so very beautiful.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Tara on May 30, 2011, 08:37:36 PM
Well Pam thank you for the encouragement!

I have noticed women who look great around my small town with gray/white hair too.
but also a dear friend asked before I started on the growing out project if I would still be able to get jobs.
8) 8) 8) 8)

I think it will be ok though.


Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pen on May 30, 2011, 10:21:51 PM
As I too approach the age of the revered "white hairs" I believe that it's all in the way we carry ourselves. If we are confident, happy, & dress with our own style & panache, having beautiful white hair that is cared for and well cut only adds to the impression. Also, as Wangari Muta Maathai (Nobel prize winner for her work in ecology) said once, "Don't make 'old lady noises' when you sit down." (or something to that effect.)

Having said that, I will confess to coloring my hair, but now only to match my roots which are still mostly dark and to add highlights which will allow my greys to grow out w/o a severe line. Can't wait to be off the color wagon!

Gotta get back to yoga etc. to prevent those 'old lady noises.'
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 31, 2011, 06:26:51 AM
I absolutely love white hair. My GM had gorgeous, snow white hair.  My DM has the ugly, yellowish gray so she keeps hers colored.  I have about 1/2 and 1/2 (when my roots grow out) and so far, it looks very white.  I am so hoping it is and not my DM's ugly yellowish gray as I get older.  If the rest of it changes over, you bet I will be proud to sport it!  I am with Pen.  I think it shows confidence.
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: lancaster lady on May 31, 2011, 07:32:43 AM
After dying my hair for many years I became fed up looking like a skunk when the roots came through ! I eventually  had all the colours stripped from my hair ,am now a.natural blonde lol .I get the roots done every six weeks ,new people I  meet think It's natural ....covers grey very well. I love the silvery grey ,mine was more.salt and pepper .
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: luise.volta on May 31, 2011, 07:52:31 AM
I see every color there is where I live, a retirement center. It seems really individual, to me. Some look marvelous in grey, white and salt and pepper. Some look good with soft color rinses. Few can carry dark whether it is brown, black or red. None mess with multicolors that I can recall. At 80, when the picture was taken that I use on my sites...I was using a kind of dark blond/light brown rinse. But now my hair is a kind of multishaded silver and I like it natural. This picture was taken about 3 months ago on my 84th birthday. No coloring...no perm because my hair is naturally curly. Wash and wear!  ;D

(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc491/luisevolta/file-21.jpg)
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: lancaster lady on May 31, 2011, 07:57:49 AM
Luise :

What a picture ! You have lovely hair and it suits you very well , as for being 84 .....
I don't believe it !
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: luise.volta on May 31, 2011, 08:05:18 AM
 :D This year's motto: 84 and ready for more!  ;D
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Kennedy on May 31, 2011, 09:07:33 AM
Wonderful Motto.. I love how you embrace life. You are such a wonderful role model Luise!
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: Pooh on May 31, 2011, 09:15:48 AM
I love your hair!  And the motto!  I think I will use "43 and ready to be me!"
Title: Re: Nervous about first visit with grand daughters and dils/ds
Post by: luise.volta on May 31, 2011, 09:28:37 AM
Thanks! Good one, Pooh!  8)