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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: justdontunderstand on February 09, 2011, 07:17:00 AM

Title: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: justdontunderstand on February 09, 2011, 07:17:00 AM
I have been reading but not posting since the holidays. Today I felt I wanted to update you all on the state of the "dis" union that describes our relationship with our DIL. We had a short visit over the holidays (the first contact in over a year with DIL). It was pleasant enough. Since that time, nearly two months...we are back to no contact with her. After DS and DIL returned to their home (we live in different states), I sent the gifts DIL could not take home on the plane and included a very nice note saying how much we enjoyed her visit. I mentioned that we would gladly share the expenses of visiting by coming to see them next time if they would like. I got no reply whatsoever. No one in our family has spoken, emailed, texted or received a smoke signal ;D from DIL since the visit. I suppose this sums up the situation for us. We try and try to make real, lasting contact with our DIL. We get nothing in return. It just continues to feel like we are completely unimportant to her. We speak with our DS but not speaking with his wife seems bizarre to me...am I wrong to think that this is just not normal? ???
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: holliberri on February 09, 2011, 07:42:34 AM
If you genuinely enjoyed her visit and sent her a thank you not, can you leave it at that?  Maybe no reply needs to be made. You have contact with DS, right?

My MIL's not great with the responses either (and neither have I been at times, due to that fact), but I keep doing what I do b/c I want to, not b/c what she'll do in return. I also have made it a point to practice not caring what she does in return. It's easier for me to not worry about it, than it is to wonder if it's normal, and try to analyze it and figure out why she's doing it. When I do analyze, I come up with unhealthy terms for it (vindictive, passive-aggressive), and then I begin to justify my own retaliatory actions.

"It is what it is" causes a lot less problems for myself and keeps my behavior in better check. It's been a lot healthier. It's only been 6-7 months of practicing this...but it gets easier.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Scoop on February 09, 2011, 08:04:19 AM
JDU - there are a lot of possible excuses / reasons for DIL to not answer you.

Maybe, since you've had a rocky relationship, she's not ready yet to move forward.  Maybe her baby-steps are smaller than yours.

Maybe, she's not that sociable.  I find it very easy to talk to strangers, but I often have a hard time in social situations where I'm not sure on what's expected of me.  So, I can talk to the person in line with me, but I have a hard time talking to my MIL on the phone.

We all have people that we "click" with, where conversation is easy and it just flows.  We also have people that are harder to talk to.  Maybe she's having a hard time figuring out what to say to you.

Do you think your DS talks on the phone to her Dad?  I think this is an expectation we have of women and it's not fair.  She doesn't have to be your friend.

You talk to DS and she's civil when she visits, I think you should be happy with that and continue your baby-steps to "more".
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Pen on February 09, 2011, 08:10:44 AM
I like to know that packages I've mailed have been received. A short note acknowledging receipt would be nice. My SM & DF couldn't take everything back with them either, so at great expense to me I mailed a big box right after the holidays. Not a word. I think it's rude, frankly.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: holliberri on February 09, 2011, 09:02:37 AM
Rude and inconsiderate are probably fair terms for it. Neither of those terms require that I invest a lot of energy into settling the score or trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I have rude friends, but I don't take it personally; I'm sure I have a few rude relatives too. That also helps to put it in perspective!
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: justdontunderstand on February 09, 2011, 09:17:40 AM
Quote from: holliberri on February 09, 2011, 07:42:34 AM
If you genuinely enjoyed her visit and sent her a thank you not, can you leave it at that?  Maybe no reply needs to be made. You have contact with DS, right?

I understand your point. I have left it at that. I am not making it an issue with DIL or DS. However, isn't it a part of life to want to connect with other people and wonder why you can't? How do you ever improve a situation if you don't have some give and take, discussion and contact? JUST THINKING ALOUD.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: luise.volta on February 09, 2011, 09:30:46 AM
My guess is that it was hard for her to visit for whatever reason(s) of her own and she's glad it's over. Is that "normal?" For her it may be. Not having her be the way she is...is a huge waste of energy, IMHO. She may have not thanked you for the presents or responded to your offer to come there next time because she doesn't want to encourage you. You want what we all want...an  extended family. We have various expectations regarding how that might look...but none of us saw "The End" written at the bottom of the wedding invitation.

Our sons have the right to choose...wisely or unwisely. They start a new family unit where they make their own  rules. If "for whatever reason" their wives don't want us in the picture, that is for them, as adults (?) to hash out and decide on. We await the verdict and feel helpless and maligned because we are. Sometimes the verdict is given in silences and absences promoted by DIL but not vetoed by DS. Maybe because that's the only way it can be done; they aren't mature enough for confrontation and know they don't have a leg to stand on if they had to directly address it. Rude sends a message but leaves no place for response.

What's going on is about them and about their relationship. They may work through it and be back or they may not. Time will tell. In this picture, I don't think what we say or do has much to do with it unless it can be used against us as justification.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: stilltryen on February 09, 2011, 09:41:58 AM
I get along semi-decently with my DIL, but she never writes or calls either.  Everything is funneled through DS.  Maybe it's not normal, but it's fine with me.  Many moons ago she decided we needed to get to know each other better.  Thus it was that the two of us got together for lunch.  I felt like she was listening to me so that she could find something else to complain about ---- and sure enough.  A couple of days later DS is asking me why I said this, or that she thought the comment I said about that was dumb.  Do I need that stuff?  Nope.  So we went back to the "DS" system and I'm fine with it.

However, your DS should at least let you know they got the stuff you sent.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: holliberri on February 09, 2011, 09:55:22 AM
I knew what you were doing, no need for ALL CAPS. I don't know if that's normal for you, but I haven't seen it on this site before directed at someone, so it's not normal for me.

You can read through my post one more time, a little more carefully, and see how similar our situations are. My MIL won't even pick up the phone when I call, but insists on talking through DH. My point was, the only person I'm affecting by trying change behavior that's not going to be changed is me, not her. It's easier for me to try and not think about what she's not doing than it is for me to wonder if it's normal. My life got infinitely easier when I accepted that non-response was indeed, normal behavior for her, at least towards me.

Not well written, I admit, but "leave it at that" meant maybe the problem wasn't you and you shouldn't be worrying about what you can do. Just be yourself. If you choose to send her the package with a nice letter, by all means, do so.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: cremebrulee on February 09, 2011, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on February 09, 2011, 07:17:00 AM
I have been reading but not posting since the holidays. Today I felt I wanted to update you all on the state of the "dis" union that describes our relationship with our DIL. We had a short visit over the holidays (the first contact in over a year with DIL). It was pleasant enough. Since that time, nearly two months...we are back to no contact with her. After DS and DIL returned to their home (we live in different states), I sent the gifts DIL could not take home on the plane and included a very nice note saying how much we enjoyed her visit. I mentioned that we would gladly share the expenses of visiting by coming to see them next time if they would like. I got no reply whatsoever. No one in our family has spoken, emailed, texted or received a smoke signal ;D from DIL since the visit. I suppose this sums up the situation for us. We try and try to make real, lasting contact with our DIL. We get nothing in return. It just continues to feel like we are completely unimportant to her. We speak with our DS but not speaking with his wife seems bizarre to me...am I wrong to think that this is just not normal? ???

I'm going to tell you something, which really needs to be examined....just because you believe one way, doesn't mean that DIL is going to live up to your expectations....it's a whole different world out there since we grew up....and in order to get along, your going to have to stop expecting her to act certain ways or respond certain ways....she can't and never will be able to live up to your expectations, and when you do that, you set yourselves and her up to fail....just let it go, and give her time....let her be the one to contact you, and don't make suggestions like that....it was the first visit in how long....?  She needs time....just b/c you had a visit, isn't going to mean that she automatically will become family...don't think of her like that, think of her as a work aquaintance and nothing more....give the relationship time....and stop second guessing.  I'm not saying this to be mean, it's just the way it has to be....yanno....

wishing you the best....
Creme
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: luise.volta on February 09, 2011, 11:04:01 AM
ALL CAPS, where?
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Pooh on February 09, 2011, 11:23:18 AM
Shewwww Luise, I thought it was just me.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: holliberri on February 09, 2011, 11:41:01 AM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on February 09, 2011, 09:17:40 AM
Quote from: holliberri on February 09, 2011, 07:42:34 AM
If you genuinely enjoyed her visit and sent her a thank you not, can you leave it at that?  Maybe no reply needs to be made. You have contact with DS, right?

I understand your point. I have left it at that. I am not making it an issue with DIL or DS. However, isn't it a part of life to want to connect with other people and wonder why you can't? How do you ever improve a situation if you don't have some give and take, discussion and contact? JUST THINKING ALOUD.
Since my quote is put into this post and the very last sentence is completely in all caps, I feel as if I'm being yelled at.

It would appear to me, that the OP thinks that I was denying her from thinking aloud. I certainly wasn't preventing her from doing that, and I certainly wasn't invalidating her feelings. In fact, I think I was identifying with them, based on the rest of my post.

Miscommunications happen all the time, and I readily admit my initial post wasn't the best, but somehow, I feel as if the last sentence was an escalation of miscommunication, not a reduction. I think I would've preferred to have been asked what I meant.

Again, it could very well just be me. I'll gladly modify whatever is necessary if you like.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Pooh on February 09, 2011, 12:10:02 PM
Thanks Holli.  I didn't see it and thought I was losing my mind.  See it now.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: justdontunderstand on February 09, 2011, 12:28:36 PM
Quote from: holliberri on February 09, 2011, 09:55:22 AM
I knew what you were doing, no need for ALL CAPS. I don't know if that's normal for you, but I haven't seen it on this site before directed at someone, so it's not normal for me.

Others on the forum quote other people all the time in order to carry on the thread. I am sorry if you took offense at my all caps...it absolutely was not meant to offend anyone...just an innocent emphasis  that I was thinking out loud. I do appreciate your point of view but we all are offering up opinions here...no one knows the whole situation except those that are living it. I come her largely for support and to vent. When I read someone else's advice or perspective, I take away what makes sense to me.  I listen to the rest of it and  say hmmmm....that is interesting.  I have never come here with the intent to offend or yell at anyone. I have enough drama in my life.

Further. I didn't even know that all caps could be interpreted as yelling. I have learned something by your reaction and will take it under advisement. Again, I apologize if I offended you in any way...it was an unintended consequence of just trying to vent.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: justdontunderstand on February 09, 2011, 12:41:10 PM
Quote from: Pen on February 09, 2011, 08:10:44 AM
I like to know that packages I've mailed have been received. A short note acknowledging receipt would be nice. My SM & DF couldn't take everything back with them either, so at great expense to me I mailed a big box right after the holidays. Not a word. I think it's rude, frankly.

Pen,
I think you have tapped into the very thing that bothers me. I am trying here...really trying to connect with DIL and it seems that common courtesy isn't even on the radar. Thank you for understanding.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: AnonymousDIL on February 09, 2011, 12:45:05 PM
I am curious. Why is the blame always put on your DIL? Oh, DIL is Disrespectful, DIL is inconsiderate, or my favorite DIL Doesn't ALLOW DS to contact us.

Whether or not MIL's want to admit it. DIL's do not embittered their husbands against their mothers. If Your DS does not want to contact you, it is of his own volition.

That being said, you and your DIL don't have a "good" relationship. She may not have felt it necessary to respond to you. Or perhaps she asked her husband to do it since you are his mother. It isn't right for you to expect her to have a relationship with you that she isn't prepared to have. She is not your daughter. She is your DIL. If she feels that you are being "judgy" of her (intended or not), she isn't going to want a relationship wit you. Don't push it. You don't want to be viewed as intrusive and pushy.  ;)
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: justdontunderstand on February 09, 2011, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 09, 2011, 09:30:46 AM
Time will tell. In this picture, I don't think what we say or do has much to do with it unless it can be used against us as justification.

Luise,

I do have a sense of urgency that life has taught me. We don't have all the time in the world to set things the right way around...if at all possible. I would like to bridge the gap if at all possible but can't quite accept that it might not be possible. Thanks for your comments.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Pooh on February 09, 2011, 12:48:56 PM
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on February 09, 2011, 12:45:05 PM
I am curious. Why is the blame always put on your DIL? Oh, DIL is Disrespectful, DIL is inconsiderate, or my favorite DIL Doesn't ALLOW DS to contact us.

Whether or not MIL's want to admit it. DIL's do not embittered their husbands against their mothers. If Your DS does not want to contact you, it is of his own volition.

That being said, you and your DIL don't have a "good" relationship. She may not have felt it necessary to respond to you. Or perhaps she asked her husband to do it since you are his mother. It isn't right for you to expect her to have a relationship with you that she isn't prepared to have. She is not your daughter. She is your DIL. If she feels that you are being "judgy" of her (intended or not), she isn't going to want a relationship wit you. Don't push it. You don't want to be viewed as intrusive and pushy.  ;)

Sorry AnonymousDIL, but that is not always true.  There are some DILs that do embitter their husbands against their Mothers.  As an MIL in this situation, I have always agreed my DS is also to blame and needs to step up for his FOO, but that doesn't mean that my DIL doesn't make it hard on him to do.  They are both to blame.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: luise.volta on February 09, 2011, 12:54:32 PM
OK, there it is.  Our Modified Agreement under Getting Started, asks us not to us CAPs. We all agree to that when we start posting here. We also are seem to use CAPS at one time or another, mostly for exuberance...as in "YEA!" or "GOOD FOR YOU!

However, when we feel we need to do it to make a point...we usually need to take 5, pour a cup of coffee and not post for a bit. OK?

I just changed a subject line that was ALL CAPS. No need to do that, we all feel strongly and respect that others do as well. That's what drove most of us here...wanting to be heard.




Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: LaurieS on February 09, 2011, 12:56:07 PM
And since where does it say that you don't need to treat family with the same respect you would for anyone else.   Today was a great example.. 3 different men held the door for me.. I managed to say thank you to each one of them.  If I can use my breath on a stranger, certainly I can muster a word of thanks for family.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: justdontunderstand on February 09, 2011, 01:00:11 PM
Luise,
I apologize to the forum for the use of the all caps. I will not make that mistake again. It was, I assure, you unintentional and not directed at anyone. My use of the quoting feature also needs improvement...I sometimes mess that up and include things in an incorrect way. I am new to this and am trying to be a good forum citizen.

Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: LaurieS on February 09, 2011, 01:02:20 PM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on February 09, 2011, 01:00:11 PM
I am new to this and am trying to be a good forum citizen.
Are there immigration laws we need to follow to be forum citizens?
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: luise.volta on February 09, 2011, 01:05:29 PM
Thanks. I am new at this, too...and I have been here for 1 1/2 years. I just tried to change a subject title that is all in caps. I know I have done it successfully before, but now I can't. (?) We are all learning. Probably, as moderator, I am on the most challenging learning curve of all.  :o
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Pooh on February 09, 2011, 01:06:12 PM
I guess I am guilty of using the all caps from time to time...I will try to do better. Ok, no guess to it, I have done it several times.  (Hangs head in shame).
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: luise.volta on February 09, 2011, 01:19:13 PM
Me, too...but we still need Immigration Laws for this to work. There are Websites that are full of bashing and yelling and profanity and attack (mostly in caps) that may not have started out that way or with that intent. Better safe than sorry. I for one, don't want to start over and if what I have set up doesn't work for some, it seems to work well for others. Sending love...
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: LaurieS on February 09, 2011, 01:21:35 PM
i concur, but this is going to take me a while to get use to.  don't worry i'll get it eventually :)
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: luise.volta on February 09, 2011, 01:31:12 PM
Well, you've just passed the 1000 posts mark! Congratulations! You are QUITE wonderful!  :P
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Pooh on February 09, 2011, 01:33:27 PM
Uh Uh  ;D
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: LaurieS on February 09, 2011, 01:34:44 PM
I did pass the mark.. I feel like it's time to trade in my keyboard and mouse for a newer version now.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: luise.volta on February 09, 2011, 02:55:36 PM
 ;D Just keep the old version of Laurie, please!  :D
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: stilltryen on February 09, 2011, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 09, 2011, 01:31:12 PM
Well, you've just passed the 1000 posts mark! Congratulations! You are QUITE wonderful!  :P

Ha Luise, what were you just saying about caps?  And what about the new style of writing - like the LOL, IMO, and then there's all that DS, DH, MIL, DIL --- so, I suspect the caps are, "use your judgment, moderation, etc."??
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: holliberri on February 09, 2011, 04:09:15 PM
Well JDN,

It looks like you and I both sorry that I took offense. I made assumptions due to the Forum Agreement and my experience on the internet. What I should've done was ask first. I interpreted it as rude and yelling, when in fact it was not. I will try to remember to ask next time before jumping to conclusions. I could have saved myself and the rest of the forum readers a lot of time and grief if I would've asked. I was trying to figure out what you meant, when really there was nothing to figure out: you didn't  mean anything by it.

Is it possible you could mention to your DS that you would like to hear that they received the package? Some people truly don't know when they are doing something wrong. I don't know all of the details, so you may have already done this.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: luise.volta on February 09, 2011, 05:11:21 PM
I was pulling your leg.  ;D  And, I guess we're just stuck with abbreviations. Imperfect site...
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Rejected on February 09, 2011, 08:27:54 PM
I have limited contact with my MIL over things she has said about me & my FOO to my DH and her complete disrespect. I rarely go to her house unless it's a holiday or other special occasion and we only stay for around 2hours. She is upset with me by my lack of communication with her but I just can't stand her anymore no do I care anymore. She is a very heavy gossiper and when she would find out that one of my grandparent's passed away she would send me a sympathy card. I would send a thank you card back and she would take that as an open invitation that everything was great between us again and try and invite us over or herself over and it just became messy. After the second sympathy card she sent, over another grandparents passing, and my thank you card back to her it sparked the same reaction from her thinking everything was fine & dandy again. I have learned not to send thank you cards back because she always misinterprets them. I was just thanking her for her condolences, not opening up the door for her. I'm in no way suggesting this may be the case with you, but this is why I've stopped sending thank you cards to my own MIL. Just a new point of view, that's all. I do agree that a phone call or something from your DS would be nice to at least let you know they got them.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: luise.volta on February 09, 2011, 08:34:17 PM
You speak of your MILs complete disrespect. Could you elaborate? What brought on such drastic action? If you don't want to go into it that's OK...some of us would rather not and I understand. It's just sad and it sounds like you have given up for good reason. Sending love...
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Rejected on February 09, 2011, 08:38:19 PM
I'm working on my own post that will explain further because I would love to get some advice to maybe understand my MIL and/or how to deal with it all.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: luise.volta on February 09, 2011, 08:41:21 PM
Great and welcome aboard!
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: LaurieS on February 09, 2011, 08:42:13 PM
Quote from: Rejected on February 09, 2011, 08:27:54 PM
She is upset with me by my lack of communication with her but I just can't stand her anymore no do I care anymore.
So you do care?  It's hard to work on a relationship if it's dead in the water to you.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Pen on February 09, 2011, 08:57:07 PM
Rejected, I'm wondering the same thing. If you don't care, what is it you're hoping to accomplish?
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: LaurieS on February 09, 2011, 09:00:52 PM
Hey Pen.. I thought you'd be asleep by now
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Pen on February 09, 2011, 09:54:29 PM
I should be, but I had some work to do and now I'm all wired up. I've been working, checking WWU, working, LOL. I think I'll try reading in bed, that usually puts me right out.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Mariatobe on February 10, 2011, 01:50:29 AM
I agree with Anonymous and Rejected.  There is a break in your relationship that she's not willing to repair right now, nor does she want to.  You may not ever be her friend.  I don't send my MIL thank you cards.  Not because I'm deliberetly trying to be rude, but because I've pretty much divorced them.  They get me a present because they feel they HAVE to.  I've posted here before about some of the things MIL has done.  I see them when I HAVE to, but only then.  I can say anytime I've felt guilty about it and called, or wrote, or tried to let them in, its like I get kicked, and walked over.  My MIL is simply not  a nice person.  It's just something I've learned to accept after all these years.  I've also learned no communication is self preserving. 
I don't know about the nature of your past relationship with your DIL, but can guess there have been a lot of problems.  I don't want to say she's being rude.  Maybe she feels like she's divorced you and is only protecting herself?
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Nana on February 10, 2011, 02:26:03 AM
Justdontunderstand

Happy to see you around.  I am happy you had a good time with son/dil.   Of course I dont see it normal.  You have the right to be intrigue by their silence.  I do think it was very rude of them not to answer.  Yes we sometimes have expectations which we shouldnt have and that is what happened.  Because you had a good time together, it is normal that you thought that things had changed and you put your hope up. 

Please Justdontunderstand dont be sad....you enjoyed whatever they gave to you during their visit.  For me it could be ...that they like to visit but not be visited.   I tell you because I know that my dil likes to come to our house.....she really looks fine and happy.....but I do feel she does not like to have us visiting frequently, unless it is their Birthdays....or a special occasion.    Works for me, I dont like to visit either lol.   

Time will tell what they are up to.  But yes.....Baby steps for now......
Will have you in my prayers.

Love
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: cremebrulee on February 10, 2011, 05:21:50 AM
Quote from: Rejected on February 09, 2011, 08:27:54 PM
I have limited contact with my MIL over things she has said about me & my FOO to my DH and her complete disrespect. I rarely go to her house unless it's a holiday or other special occasion and we only stay for around 2hours. She is upset with me by my lack of communication with her but I just can't stand her anymore no do I care anymore. She is a very heavy gossiper and when she would find out that one of my grandparent's passed away she would send me a sympathy card. I would send a thank you card back and she would take that as an open invitation that everything was great between us again and try and invite us over or herself over and it just became messy. After the second sympathy card she sent, over another grandparents passing, and my thank you card back to her it sparked the same reaction from her thinking everything was fine & dandy again. I have learned not to send thank you cards back because she always misinterprets them. I was just thanking her for her condolences, not opening up the door for her. I'm in no way suggesting this may be the case with you, but this is why I've stopped sending thank you cards to my own MIL. Just a new point of view, that's all. I do agree that a phone call or something from your DS would be nice to at least let you know they got them.

Exactly!  It's all about expectations....and unrealistic drama...I don't understand, and I'm not saying this to be rude....but it never ceases to amaze me how very unaware a lot of people are in they're expectations of others....and I've said this a million times, just b/c I think one way or you think another doesn't make you right and me wrong or visa versa....

and by the way, I think it is very nice of you to send someone a thank you card for sending a sympathy card....however, I'd feel the same way as you do...just because someone extended a courtesy, doesn't mean, that gives MIL, or anyone else, free rein to your life....

If someone is keeping distance from me, there is a reason, and why would I want or expect that person to be any different, or fight it or push not only myself on her, but also my culture...????? Not to mention my thoughts, feelings and opinions on things....

Maybe she doesn't want to achieve anything more then what is now....given time, and space, perhaps she'll change...but I cannot believe how some people feel, the moment a DIL makes a kind gesture, we mothers, think, Oh, everything is hunky dory, and I'll be the same as I was before....instead of sitting back and giving it time....and not responding other then a thank you....

And to, sometimes there isn't any reason, other then, some people are just not a good fit....why would you push yourself on someone?  Or automatically think b/c someone made contact, now your best buds....no, it doesn't work like that....people need time....

Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: AnonymousDIL on February 10, 2011, 05:54:40 AM
My MIL has no respect for me at all either. She treats me like I am a child, criticizes every decision that I make, has no respect for my career, and does not respect the boundaries that have been set for her.

If my mother is capable of treating DH and I like adults, MIL should be more than capable. DH and I are not YOUNG by any means, we didn't get married in HS or anything. We were both finished college and established in our careers before we got married. Additionally, MIL did not know me when I was a child/teen.

Every decision that I had made for our wedding MIL criticized. It was so bad, just to appease her we changed every plan. This woman even invited herself along on our honeymoon which we had to cancel (Gee thanks MIL, don't know how you thought you had the right to be there for that!).

I am a tax accountant (a very good one mind you), but MIL wants me to become a CNA (she is a RN). I'm sorry, but I have no desire to wipe poopy butts for a living (this is also the reason that DH and I do not have any plans to have a baby-- Oh, sorry if that bothers you MIL). Incidentally before we were even married, MIL bought us baby clothes.  >:(

We haven't set too many boundaries for her. 1. Don't offer unsolicited advice or manipulate us into changing our decisions.. (she is failing on this one)
2. Do not call after 9:00 because that is our time.  (She does okay on this, but she still starts "texting "wars" with DH).

I do not feel that I am asking for too much here. Just want a little respect. As MIL's do you feel that these boundaries are unreasonable?
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: cremebrulee on February 10, 2011, 06:24:57 AM
QuoteAnonymousDIL
My MIL has no respect for me at all either. She treats me like I am a child, criticizes every decision that I make, has no respect for my career, and does not respect the boundaries that have been set for her.

That is because your MIL doesn't have respect for herself or like herself you cannot give what you don't know.

QuoteIf my mother is capable of treating DH and I like adults, MIL should be more than capable. DH and I are not YOUNG by any means, we didn't get married in HS or anything. We were both finished college and established in our careers before we got married. Additionally, MIL did not know me when I was a child/teen.

You would think she would know, but honestly, she doesn't nor will she ever be capable.  You see, people like her blame everyone else for her mistakes....she doesn't have a clue nor will ever believe that she does anything wrong...she is the kind of person who would refuse to go to counseling b/c she fears hearing the truth, she wouldn't be able to face it or even comprehend it....

QuoteEvery decision that I had made for our wedding MIL criticized. It was so bad, just to appease her we changed every plan. This woman even invited herself along on our honeymoon which we had to cancel (Gee thanks MIL, don't know how you thought you had the right to be there for that!).

Sheesh? Unbelievable?  I just cannot believe the adasity of some people....amazing?????  This woman, as Shirley Jones said, "is a wart on the butt of humanity"  All kidding aside, she is unable to view anything beyond the self....sad....

QuoteI am a tax accountant (a very good one mind you), but MIL wants me to become a CNA (she is a RN). I'm sorry, but I have no desire to wipe poopy butts for a living (this is also the reason that DH and I do not have any plans to have a baby-- Oh, sorry if that bothers you MIL). Incidentally before we were even married, MIL bought us baby clothes.  >:(

Even if you became a CNA, she still wouldn't be happy...your not living your life for her approval, remember that....you don't need approval from anyone to be happy.

QuoteWe haven't set too many boundaries for her. 1. Don't offer unsolicited advice or manipulate us into changing our decisions.. (she is failing on this one)

Let her offer, you can ignore it....it's your life....

Quote2. Do not call after 9:00 because that is our time.  (She does okay on this, but she still starts "texting "wars" with DH).
Turn everything off....turn down the phones, so you don't know she has texted you and don't respond as much....start baking off....you don't need her in your lives...

QuoteI do not feel that I am asking for too much here. Just want a little respect. As MIL's do you feel that these boundaries are unreasonable?

No you are not asking for to much, she is just incapable of understanding polite, boundaries, and the need for others to have quiet quality time.....
It's a busy world out there, and a lot of times, if a MIL isn't working, that's bad enough, now if you have a negative mil, that makes things worse, cause all she has to do all day long is sit around thinking of more negative things....see, she is unable to view the world as you do...if you give in to her, she wants more, you give them an hand, they want your whole arm..so your never going to satisfy her...and when you come to that conclusion, you'll be better off....it is what it is, and the further away from her you can get, the better off your going to be...she is a woman who will never be happy.

Stay strong and above all, stay who you are, but don't ever allow anyone to make you they're door mat.....see, she is so jealous of you, she wants to be just like you...and she knows she can't...so, she will do and say anything to put you down, it makes her feel better about herself, due to the fact, that she doesn't like herself very much.

Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: AnonymousDIL on February 10, 2011, 07:00:32 AM
Wow, creme.... I kinda feel like there is no hope to salvage this relationship.  :(

I really don't want to cut her out of our lives, but additionally, I don't want to be walked all over or really be her "buddy" (sorry, I just don't need another "buddy")

But it hit me, you are dead on with the respect thing. I actually had it out with her daughter over the respect thing. The girl has no respect for anyone or anything including herself. I wrote her a very nice, very respectful letter about it (I didn't want to call her out in "public" for it. Just wanted to tell her what I was seeing coming through. She's in her late teens and needs to start acting like a mature adult). She is just like her mother!

The advice thing. You're right, we don't have to actually take her advice. But how do you deal with someone who doesn't take your polite "no's" for what they are.

Example: DH and I bought our first house. It has a flowerbed out front. I want to plant flowers in it, but honestly just haven't had the time yet. We had a lot of planning with the wedding, flowers just didn't happen last year. So, MIL wants to plant them FOR us. I told her very politely that it is something that I want to do just DH and I since it is our first house and that I'm not even sure what I want to plant out there yet. DH told her the same thing.

What did she do? She went out and bought us flowers. Ok, so it was kinda sweet, but I already told her not to. I'll admit the flowers are very pretty, BUT they aren't really my taste nor are they the color that I want out front. I'm sure they would look nice enough, I just feel like she didn't hear me at all when I told her No.

And she has the habit of insisting that DH lies to me. That absolutely infuriates me. We are very open and honest with each other. It feels like she is trying to ruin our marraige. :-(
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: cremebrulee on February 10, 2011, 07:13:37 AM
I don't think she is trying to consciously ruin your marriage....she is negative, and she wants to feel better about herself by putting you down.

If you want to have somewhat of a relationship with her, then, do so only when your hubby is around, and both stand your ground....in other words, it's going to take a collective part on both of you to stand together.  When she asks you in front of him and you say no, your husband should say, "now if you go out and buy flowers, we're going to return them"....yes, it was a nice gesture, however, you already told her no, you were not ready....and I wouldn't want to see you return them to her and hurt her feelings....however, on the other hand, a part of me says, if you do, maybe she'll think twice before she goes against you....and also, when you say "no", maybe she is just not hearing you say no...she is only thinking about what she wants.

And I'm going to throw some caution to the wind here....when you write something, it's coming from your culture...however, when your sister in law reads it, due to her being so self imposed, she is not going to read your words they way you mean them.....she will only focus on the negative, and find insult in your words....more so then constructive criticism, you see, people interpret things by they're own self constitutions, the way they view things, and I know, if my mother got that same letter from me, the way you wrote it, she'd take huge insult....which just goes to prove how very small some issues are, but can be taken to the other end of the spectrum....just by the MO's of some people....it's all they know....and they refuse to view it from another point of view, they can't., they're either afraid of change, or to stubborn to admit, that, hey, I'm not wrong, however, this isn't the way this person wants to do things....it's very difficult for some people to even begin to acknowledge another person's feelings....and there are usually (not always) two sides to every coin. 

I know some DIL's and sons, try disconnecting from the source of they're problems, because it's causing them huge problems in they're marriage, but some MIL's refuse to acknowledge that....but believe me, everyone wants to get along, it's how you all get along that matters....it takes hard work and a whole lot of awareness past our own needs....but being able to understand the needs of others, not taking it so personal....

You can have a relationship with her, however, a lot of these things, your either going to have to learn to ignore, and not let it drive you up a wall, or, ask her to please acknowledge your needs...however, I doubt very much that she will be able to understand or even want to.....

So, the balls in your court....are you able to ignore a lot of this stuff and shrug it off.....?

Me, all my life, people have wanted me to live up to they're expectations, and I won't do it any more.  I did when I was younger, and ended up being so upset with myself because I was not able to say no, I wanted to please everyone, wanted to be accepted, now I don't care in the least....I want to live life to the fullest, by my rules and my choices....and I'm much happier for it.....life is way to short, and it's meant to be enjoyed...your the pilot, it's all up to you...and as time goes by, you'll grow and things won't bother you as much, believe me, our priorities change....

I really wish you well, and understand, this is simply my opinon, I don't know either one of you and I could be way off base.....so...my words are given in concern and the desire to help....other women in here, might have some other very good ideas to offer you. 

hugs
Creme




Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: AnonymousDIL on February 10, 2011, 07:31:59 AM
Creme, I think you know us both pretty well actually lol

DH was with me with the whole flower debacle. :-( I think for now we are just on opposite ends of the spectrum. We want to live our life and she wants to live our life for us. Maybe in time she can be a little more like my mom and let us live our life without interference and without bad-mouthing us to everyone who will listen. Because I'm not at the point where I don't care what anyone else thinks yet. :-(

And I don't keep her son from her. We really just don't have that much free time. And she works when we do have free time. (or should I say she Chooses to work because she makes her own schedule).

Ah well! Maybe it'll get better.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: holliberri on February 10, 2011, 07:37:10 AM
The gardening:

I got a ton of flowers I didn't want from people...my solution?

A "love" garden outback. It's got flowers I didn't really want out front, but flowers from my MIL, Aunts, GPs, Mom, Dad, and even some plants I asked to take from my dad's old house. His mom planted them before she died 40 years ago.

I plant the flowers from other people there and when someone comes to visit, I send them home with some from that garden to add to theirs. They can pick whatever they want. It's caught on among the family. My aunt from Georgia took half my Lamb's Ear! They all have love gardens now.

Not to change the subject, but it was a great way to work with what I had without hurting anyone's feelings.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: cremebrulee on February 10, 2011, 07:55:20 AM
QuoteDH was with me with the whole flower debacle. :-( I think for now we are just on opposite ends of the spectrum. We want to live our life and she wants to live our life for us.

I wonder if, maybe she's trying to accomplish her own broken dreams through you...oft times parents will do that...MOM, always wanted to be an actress...but for some reason couldn't, so, she is constantly entering her baby girl in talent contests/beauty contests? 

I don't know, I think sometimes when you can understand why a person is doing things, it helps us be more tollerant of them....however, again I commend you and I'm sure, you'll find your way, you seem more then fair....


QuoteMaybe in time she can be a little more like my mom and let us live our life without interference and without bad-mouthing us to everyone who will listen. Because I'm not at the point where I don't care what anyone else thinks yet. :-(

has your DH ever told her that he knows she is bad mouthing you to everyone and that is a horrible thing for a mother to do?  Call her on her mistakes....maybe she will try to correct them....


QuoteAnd I don't keep her son from her. We really just don't have that much free time. And she works when we do have free time. (or should I say she Chooses to work because she makes her own schedule).

Ah well! Maybe it'll get better.

Yes, I know, a lot of MIL's can't accept that times have changed and when they're son's don't see them nearly as much as they would like, "why it has to be the DIL's fault?"  She is turning him against us....and she isn't....and he hasn't all of a sudden become someone he was not....it's simply b/c he is very busy, needs to have down time when he comes home from work, with his family without having to talk on the phone, or stopping by. 

Believe me I know, it's very difficult for MIL's to understand that, or accept that her son now has his own life....why?  Because we were moms' for so long and now all that is gone, and we have to blame someone, don't we?   ;D

Believe me, I did it all and felt the same way at one time....
I gotta tell you, it's really been refreshing sharing with you...your MIL is very lucky....

Oh, by the way, my DIL told me she loved me last time we spoke....boy oh boy did that make me feel like a million bucks...I'm so so so thankful that my son has her, she is virtually, a gift.   ;D

Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Pen on February 10, 2011, 08:04:42 AM
AnonymousDIL, if I haven't properly welcomed you, consider yourself welcomed by me  :D

Quote from: AnonymousDIL on February 10, 2011, 07:00:32 AM
... I actually had it out with her daughter over the respect thing. The girl has no respect for anyone or anything including herself. I wrote her a very nice, very respectful letter about it (I didn't want to call her out in "public" for it. Just wanted to tell her what I was seeing coming through. She's in her late teens and needs to start acting like a mature adult). She is just like her mother!


I'm confused as to why it's OK for you to "call out" your MIL's daughter but you resent being disrespected by MIL? Is it your place to make your SIL's behavior your business? Shouldn't MIL's parenting strategies, right or wrong, be her decision the same way you'd want your parenting strategies honored by MIL?

My point is: If you want respect, you need to model respect. If you don't want MIL overstepping your boundaries, you must make sure you don't overstep her boundaries.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: holliberri on February 10, 2011, 09:09:23 AM
I don't think I've ever written a very respectful letter telling someone what I thought they should change that wasn't met with offense.

I don't think I've ever received one I wasn't offended by either for that matter.

The problem with a letter is that is an attempt to confront something, while we are at the same time trying to avoid confrontation. It just can't work like that.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: AnonymousDIL on February 10, 2011, 09:17:42 AM
Thanks, Holli. That's a great idea. And actually what we were planning when the weather gets warmer. I do hope that it doesn't hurt her feelings that they aren't out front, but she was told.

Creme, that's great! Hope you and your DIL can have a great relationship.

Lancaster, I didn't "call out" SIL. I merely wrote her a letter about how her actions were affecting me personally. There is nothing wrong with that at all. These were actions that Involved me. Not just me putting my nose where it didn't belong. I was trying to be her friend because her other brother's GF was calling her a B!tch. (I did not call her this, mind you). I just pointed out her actions towards me (she had the same actions towards BIL's GF) and that maybe she needed to be a little more respectful.

I have no problem with MIL giving her opinion about things that actually involve or concern her, but when I tell her that I don't agree or want to do it my way, she needs to respect me enough to let it drop and not continue with it or go behind my back and do what she wants anyway.

I do treat her with respect. maybe a little too much respect because she uses it to manipulate both DH and I. Perhaps if I were a little rude and told her "MIL do not buy us any flowers, period!" I should have been more forceful about it, because MIL doesn't pick up on subtleties). maybe then she would have listened and "heard" the No. :-(
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: luise.volta on February 10, 2011, 10:57:26 AM
Lots of "shoulds" floating around. My take is that others do what they do. It doesnlt do much good to focus on that. Where our choices are can be a much more fruitful pursuit.

And it's hard to get that how we feel about what others do is about us. We are in charge of and responsible for our reactions, they aren't. A dear friend taught me that when someone "made me" feel devastated. She said it wouldn't have bothered her and I realized that was true. She had a much stronger self-image than I did. It's my job to address that and shore it up. It's not the responsibility of others to modify who they are and how they present themselves....IMHO. Sending love...
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: Pooh on February 10, 2011, 11:01:18 AM
What's my favorite saying.....what's my favorite saying...

"No one can get your goat if you don't bring your goat with you."  ;D
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: holliberri on February 10, 2011, 11:04:31 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 10, 2011, 10:57:26 AM
A dear friend taught me that when someone "made me" feel devastated. She said it wouldn't have bothered her and I realized that was true. She had a much stronger self-image than I did. It's my job to address that and shore it up.

Well, this will be my take home thought-for-the-day.
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: LaurieS on February 10, 2011, 11:14:12 AM
The goat line is easier to remember hours from now
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: AnonymousDIL on February 10, 2011, 11:15:11 AM
Luise, What is your advice then when you just don't "mesh" with someone?

I personally think I should just avoid SIL/MIL and be civil when I see them, but isn't that going to upset them? I know I can't make them what I want them to be, but they can't make me what they want me to be either. I'm sorry, but I can't just bend to MIL's every whim.

I do sometimes take her advice and I do always consider it, but she gets upset just because I don't always take it. That's what is most upsetting to me. Since she is so forceful with her opinions they come across more as "demands" than they do opinions.

I've tried the polite "I'll consider that." or "That's a good idea." But they don't seem to be good enough for her. She hears "Yes, Your Majesty. I will do that right away."
Title: Re: State of the "Dis" Union
Post by: justus on February 10, 2011, 01:55:10 PM
You make me feel like a really bad DIL. My ILs live way across the country. Granted, they have not made much of an effort to get to know me at all. We like each other when we see each other, but that is where it ends. *shrug* But, then, I am the kind of person who has to write on the calender to call my own children once a week so I will remember to call them.

I don't take their disinterest personally because they put just slightly more effort into having a relationship with DH. It isn't really about me. For various reasons, DH isn't important because he has dropped the rope on the family drama. He wont' play, so he isn't worth the effort.

It sounds like your situation is much different, but I think you should take it as personally as I do, which means, don't. Obviously, you are not one of her priorities. It is what it is. For whatever reason that is all about her, she choses to have all contact go through her DH. She isn't stopping him from having contact, and she doesn't seem adverse to limited contact, so let it go. She just isn't that into. You can't change it, so don't sweat it.