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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: phillek on December 05, 2011, 10:55:27 AM

Title: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: phillek on December 05, 2011, 10:55:27 AM
My MIL has always had a hard time treating her grown children like adults, including me, even though we met when I was already in my 20s.  MIL has problems with anxiety, depression, social skills, learning disablities, self esteem, dementia, you name it (this isn't my diagnoses, she is medicated and/or treated for all these things).  I think that she has a particular phobia of aging, and so thinks that by treating us like 10 year olds, she can stay 30 forever.  Her three children seem to use an avoidant/denial strategy - everything she says goes in one ear and out the other.  Example: she nags them to pack sunscreen for the beach, they smile and get on thier way with responsible beach bags already packed.  Everyone is very polite and they rarely have arguments.  I, on the other hand, have not been conditioned my whole life to deal with her personality.  I'm sensitive, and want people to like and respect me.  I guess you could say we are a terrible match.

DH and I have been married 6 years, and we have been through a lot with her since the beginning.  She banishes me to my room in the middle of the day to "go take a nap!" while she rearranges my closets and furniture without asking.  She won't accept the food I offer her in my home because she "should be the one making the food."  DH has been put in a tough spot, and the two of us have had many, many upsetting conversations with me explaining how she hurt my feelings, and him trying to understand and figure out what to do.  He and his siblings have always just let her have her way and ignored her.  I have learned that I am just not capable of this.  I have tried talking to her in a polite, respectful way, asking her to stop doing specific things because it hurts my feelings, and she doesn't seem to get it.  We eventually had to limit our contact and have gotten her and FIL a hotel for thier visits.  This has helped. 

Now, I have her first grandchild (also my family's first) and one on the way, and our problems are amplified to an unbearable level.  I have waited my whole life to be a mommy; I am a sahm and we have a wonderful, happy, active life.  I know that every family is different, but DH and I have found joy in spending as much time together (with DS) as possible, rarely getting babysitters and enjoying each other.  Our only problem is that MIL expects that we should want her to practically raise our children and uses guilt and manipulation in an attempt to make me feel like I am wrong to want to be with my children (because how could I possibly know what I'm doing, she is the one with experience)  She is constantly trying to separate me from DS, and is visibly uncomfomfortable with our relationship.  Example:  I make him giggle, she scowls and paces.  She is constantly asking me to take a walk or a nap.  One time, after I asked to take him from her to nurse, she said "Why don't you cut off your breast and leave it here so you can go away."  This was in front of his entire family, who all just laughed uncomfortably and never brought it up again.

What can I do?  All I want is for us to be able to live our happy life and share it with her in a reasonable way.  To me, that means regular visits, behaving respectfully and pleasant to one another, sharing the joy I have with my children with her by making her homemade gifts, sending photos, spending time together.  It seems like she would rather us be miserable and dependant on her than happy and self sufficient.  She needs to be in control to be satisfied, no matter the cost.  DH and I are almost to the point where we tell her to change her ways or we are cutting her off completely.  This makes me sick;  I lose sleep over it.  I just couldn't do that to someone, even though she is making us miserable.  But what is the alternative?

I could list all the nasty, mean-spirited things she said to me just last weekend, but this is already so long winded.  I'm happy to give specific examples if someone thinks it would help them give me advice.

Thank you.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: sesamejane on December 05, 2011, 11:05:52 AM
Dearest Phillek,
You said "MIL has problems with anxiety, depression, social skills, learning disablities, self esteem, dementia, you name it (this isn't my diagnoses, she is medicated and/or treated for all these things). "  She is not well, and whether all these problems/diagnoses are real or not, she is also on meds which can affect her mood and behavior. 

Figure out what your boundaries are and hold fast. Kindly always, considerate always, but hold fast. Let her tantrum and say crazy stuff - it only makes her look ridiculous and is, really, quite sad.  BTW, I hope you say, "no thank you," when mil suggests nap, etc.  I would figure out ways to *reward* her when she behaves well.  "Catch her being good."  Reward could be asking her to hold the baby since it seems to be the most important thing.  That's what I would do.  It will take some thinking, and strategizing, but if she has to be around, you will have to be clear in your own mind what is acceptable and what is not.

I am so happy for you.  These days with your children are so precious.  Please enjoy to the fullest.  Much love to you and yours, and the *wise women* and there wonderful thoughts are on the way. :-*
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: phillek on December 05, 2011, 11:24:27 AM
Thank you, Sesamejane.  I am starting to feel better already and am thankful that I found this forum. 

I learned after a few years in my early 20s to say "no, thank you." to the nap and walk requests.  I used to just go hide in my room for a while!  Like I said, I am a pleaser.  Declining irritates MIL, but I just have to remember that I am not doing anything wrong and should not feel guilty if she gets upset.  This is an ongoing battle.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Pooh on December 05, 2011, 11:55:59 AM
Welcome phillek- Please read the two posts under Open Me First. One is the Forum Agreement which has to be a fit for this to work...and the other is How This Happened...our history. Also, you will see we get bunches of Spam.  We have 4 moderators, on different time zone and we will zap it as soon as someone comes in.  Thanks.

Yowzer.  What a tough position you are in.  Dealing with all her mental problems plus the fact that she has been conditioned by her AC to think that this behavior is ok.  They are not helping your case by going along with her, but at the same time, that's how they have been conditioned to deal with her.  I think you are going to have a hard time because you should be putting down your boundaries and saying no, but she's not used to that and it's going to cause problems because everyone else lets her have her way.  I'm not saying you shouldn't hold fast to your boundaries, just that I see no matter how hard you try to do it nicely, it's a losing battle for you.

I am glad your DH is sticking with you on things.  Does she live with you?
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: phillek on December 05, 2011, 12:17:49 PM
No, Pooh, MIL lives about 6 hours away.  We see her about once every 1-2 months, and lately she has been visiting us instead of us visiting her (I'm pregnant and we have a 1 year old).  We most recently invited her and FIL over for four days over Thanksgiving and got them a hotel near our home.  We have a small house and frankly have decided that having her stay overnight with us for several days was unbearable for me and therefore also for my DH.  We do spend most of the day with them when they are in town, separating only to sleep at night and for DS's nap.  We are trying to compromise here!

Instead of enjoying the four days she had with us, MIL spent most of the time laying the groundwork to come for another visit for Christmas.  DH and I have invited my mother for that week, who also stays in a hotel with no complaints.  My mom sees us (DS is also her only GC) about once a year, and we wanted to make her visit special, so we tried to politely and respectfully explain to MIL that we already had plans for Christmas.  She continued to bring it up, insisting that she was coming, and eventually throwing a sobbing fit begging me not to tell her not to come.  This was after she got me alone and passive-agressively insulted me and my family for about 30 minutes.  I started to get irritated and asked her to please change the subject to something more pleasant and that's when she had her emotional breakdown.  Needless to say, she is coming for Christmas.

I thought it was a reasonable expectation to spend one holiday with one grandmother, and one holiday with the other.  After her meltdown I question myself.  I want to do the right thing.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: catchingup on December 05, 2011, 01:14:35 PM
Hi Phillek,
Dear!Dear! me is all I can say.
It reads like my MIL (No longer on this earth)
My story is a little differant in that my MIL controlled her children with a sergeant major attitude--also thought they were not grown ups.
In your case I feel compassion for your MIL with her problems but she is fortunate to have a DIL who does not want to abandon her.A feather in your cap for that.
It may be a good idea to visit your mother instead of her coming to you for Christmas.You ,therefore, will not be home.

You are going to have to set boundries.
I just wonder if tough love is perhaps the answer here.
Counselling may help.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Keys Girl on December 05, 2011, 01:24:50 PM
Phillek, she put you on the spot with her sobbing fit and now she's had her way.  She's learned that she can push you around with her tears and demands.  Not a good place for you to be in, it will be much more difficult at a later date to try to get her to "unlearn" the behaviour, and the emotional weapon will escalate.

It is reasonable to spend one holiday with one grandmother and one holiday with the other, but she's not reasonable.  I don't think it's a good idea to try to get someone like her to  like/respect you, I suspect you will soon be the one depressed and anxious. 

It's reasonable to change your mind especially since she used tears.  I would telephone her and tell her that you have reconsidered her insistence on you changing the plans you had already made but that you'll consider having her visit a few days before Christmas before you leave to see your mother.  Even 5 year olds have to learn the concept of have a "turn".  Thankfully for you she lives 6 hours away and not across the street.

It's a tough spot to be in especially when you are pregnant and have a small child, there are some books that might help you, I think there was one called "The Disease to Please".  The phrase "I would prefer that......." can be helpful in dealing with people who think their way is the only highway.  Trying to compromise with a dictator is a losing game, at some point in time I think you'll have to stand your ground and teach her that you won't cave in to her emotional blackmail. 



Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Doe on December 05, 2011, 01:34:01 PM
Hi Phillek -

Have you ever seen an alpha dog at a dog park?  Any number of dogs can come yapping around them and the alpha just ignores them. He does what he wants to do, goes where he wants to go while the more insecure dogs figure out their place relative to the alpha.  He doesn't worry about what will the insecure dog think or feel if they do this or that.  If a lesser dog needs to be put on his back, he just does that.

I think you just need to cultivate that side of your personality.  Worry less about her and just concentrate on your alpha bliss and let her find a way to adjust to you.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Pooh on December 05, 2011, 01:46:33 PM
No questioning on your part.  Totally reasonable to expect to have one GM for one, one for the other....actually...more than fair.  I'm with KG, you need to go back and undo what she conned you into.   I wouldn't call her though.  I would get DH to call her and explain to her that using tears to get her way was not acceptable and that you guys already have plans.  I know it was you that gave in, but it looks like she is setting you up to get you alone when she wants to have a tirade about something.  I think it is going to take DH dealing with her on these things and I would be sure I never had those type of conversations alone anymore.  If she corners you, firmly tell her that any plans need to be discussed with both you and DH and walk off! 

I think the only chance you have with her is to present a united front with DH so she's not playing you guys against each other.  And yes, kudos to you for recognizing she has issues and trying to deal with them.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Sassy on December 05, 2011, 01:56:38 PM
Rule number one is stop trying to please the unpleasable.  It won't happen, so might as well give up the persuit.  You have our permission.    That being said, your DH's siblings sort of have the right idea in ignoring her nonsense.  With someone like that, ignore or vaguely nod with whatever she says, then simply do whatever you were going to do anyway.

QuoteInstead of enjoying the four days she had with us, MIL spent most of the time laying the groundwork to come for another visit for Christmas.  DH and I have invited my mother for that week, who also stays in a hotel with no complaints.  My mom sees us (DS is also her only GC) about once a year, and we wanted to make her visit special, so we tried to politely and respectfully explain to MIL that we already had plans for Christmas. 
She continued to bring it up, insisting that she was coming, and eventually throwing a sobbing fit begging me not to tell her not to come.  This was after she got me alone and passive-agressively insulted me and my family for about 30 minutes.  I started to get irritated and asked her to please change the subject to something more pleasant and that's when she had her emotional breakdown. 
Needless to say, she is coming for Christmas.

I am confused.  MIL insulted you and your family....for 30 minutes... and so you responded by inviting her to join them?  It doesn't make sense on several levels.  The reward reinforces bad behavior.   Also, if MIL does not like your family, why are you subjecting your family to someone whom you know does not like them?  I'm thinking: your mother deserves to travel for better company than that.

I also don't understand why listening to insults for 30 minutes.  Next time anyone, including your MIL starts with the put downs, politely excuse yourself.  You don't have to listen to anyone mistreat you.  Again, we give you permission to walk away.

Have you read about the acronym Don't J.A.D.E. ? It stands for Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain.  As soon as you JADE your personal decisions to someone, you invite them to debate them with you.  How I wish you said to MIL "I'm sorry a Christmas week visit won't be possible, but we'd love to see you in January."  And repeated as necessary.  It's a practice you'll need to learn for other reasons, as soon as your children start talking.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: phillek on December 05, 2011, 02:33:31 PM
Thanks, everyone.  Good points to consider.

Sassy, I hear what you mean about not listening to insults.  I guess one of my problems is that she has mental health issues, and so I want to be patient with her.  Also, the insults are not outright.  She says, "What are you going to do when DS has no friends because he is still nursing when he is 5 and all the kids make fun of him?"  DS is not even two, and this was after she saw me nurse him for 2 minutes after he woke from his nap.  My instinct is to answer her question politely: "He almost definitely will not be nursing at 5, and if he were it would not be in front of his classmates" It is only later that I come to terms with the fact that she is trying to make the point that I am making a bad parenting choice and hurting my son.

She says, "How is your mom with DS?"  When I answer that she is wonderful.  She jumps to "Well I know you lived with your grandparents for a while growing up, so how was she then?"  I did tell her that I was uncomfortable talking about this.  She knows that my mom was a young single mother and had a problem with alcholism when I was little.  What else can I say?  I would have left the room with this one, but DS had fallen asleep in my arms, and I was stuck.  Incidentally, she only started with all her intrusive questions after I was pinned to the couch.

She also asked me "How do you and DH get together if you never get a babysitter?"  Again, I politely answered her question.  (He does sleep sometimes). 

I only asked her to stop when she started nitpicking something I let DS do that she didn't agree with the previous day.  It was such a small thing, but I did tell her she needed to drop it (several times, actually) and when she finally stopped that's when she had her meltdown.

I see what you mean about JADE, though.  It will take retraining myself to not be so accomodating and recognizing insults for what they are when they happen.  I just am not sure of the right way to react without being rude or stooping to her level, I guess.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: pam1 on December 05, 2011, 03:43:24 PM
phillek, welcome :)  I can relate, my MIL also has a diagnosed mental health disorder.  Have you heard of the book "Walking on eggshells," it primarily addresses those dealing with bpd but I found it useful in dealing with difficult people period.

I think one of the more useful things I've learned when dealing with a person like this is being patient and giving in etc are all the wrong ways to deal with them.  It's enabling.  Think of someone with a physical ailment recovering, you wouldn't carry them everywhere to prevent them hurting by learning to walk again, would you?

It's the same with mental illnesses, limits are good.  When she asks an inappropriate question, you should tell her that it is inappropriate or not answer at all.  Do not give in when she cries, like a toddler, they are only doing it to control.

Good luck and keep posting.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Sassy on December 05, 2011, 05:10:58 PM
QuoteAlso, the insults are not outright.  She says, "What are you going to do when DS has no friends because he is still nursing when he is 5 and all the kids make fun of him?" 

That's very much an outright insult.   I'm sorry someone said such a thing to you.

Quote She also asked me "How do you and DH get together if you never get a babysitter?"  Again, I politely answered her question.  (He does sleep sometimes). 

That's outright invasive, inappropriate and offensive.  And even the anxious and depressed know this.

Quote I would have left the room with this one, but DS had fallen asleep in my arms, and I was stuck.  Incidentally, she only started with all her intrusive questions after I was pinned to the couch..

I'm so sorry.  I wonder if it would have been worth risking waking DS to excuse yourself.  It might be easiest and simplest for you .  It's encouraging to read that you normally would do this.  Where was DH when MIL had you pinned?

Quote I only asked her to stop when she started nitpicking something I let DS do that she didn't agree with the previous day.  It was such a small thing, but I did tell her she needed to drop it (several times, actually) and when she finally stopped that's when she had her meltdown.

What is the "meltdown"?  And how exactly did the meltdown result in MIL getting an invitation?

I ask for the detail, because understanding the dynamic better  (such as, does DH avoid her when she visits, did DH come in for the meltdown, did he play a role in a meltdown invite?) can help with understanding how to help you handle it better.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Sassy on December 05, 2011, 05:11:43 PM
By the way, I just noticed your subject line.  I am a DIL, not a MIL.  Hope that's okay  :D
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: phillek on December 05, 2011, 07:05:09 PM
Sassy, not a problem that you are a DIL, I appreciate input any way I can get it.  I was just hoping that MILs might have a more unbiased opinion and help me understand if there is anything I need to be doing better. 

I'm also happy to provide more detail:

DH was out at a sporting event with FIL during the time of the incident, so we were alone.  She would not say these things in front of anyone else, which is another indication that she knows she is wrong.  The "meltdown" went like this:

MIL: (after all the initial mean-spirited questions) "Yesterday, I can't believe you let DS walk under that rope.  I would never do something like that", etc, etc, on and on about this.

Me: "Please drop it."

MIL:  "I just need you to know that that was wrong" etc. etc.

Me: "Enough."

(repeat a few times)

Then, DS woke up (I was talking softly, but MIL was getting worked up).  I stood up to take him out of the room, and she started sobbing and saying things like "Please don't be mad at me!  Please don't tell me I can't come visit you!  I'm getting so old!  I love DS!  I love DS!  I want to come for Christmas!  Please!  Please!"  Meanwhile, DS is just waking from nap, needing a diaper change and a snack.  I say "ok, ok, just relax" ask her if she needs water, and grab my phone and dial DH.  MIL shuts off the waterworks before I can even hit "send" on my phone, and just says something like "I wonder who won the game?"  It's like none of it ever happened.  Then, when we say goodbye to them for the end of their visit, she says "see you at Christmas"

That's basically it.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Pen on December 05, 2011, 11:31:25 PM
Phillek, welcome. Your MIL sounds like my GM. She had some major issues and made life miserable for her son (my dad) and his wife (my mom.) My DM tried everything, but GM never accepted her. I found a box of letters my DM had written to her MIL (GM saved every one) and it was heartbreaking to read my DM's kind words to this unhappy, angry, whiney, miserable woman who was probably bi-polar but undiagnosed. I vowed never to be a MIL like that! Funny, I think I assumed I'd end up with a DIL like my mom (or even me, for that matter.) Oh well, you know what they say....
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Sassy on December 06, 2011, 03:41:04 AM
I'm sure you'll get helpful and insightful replies by other members today. I hope to come back on soon, but I wanted to pop on and quickly share my initial thoughts.  I'm thinking of you and glad you joined us.

Quoteshe started sobbing and saying things like "Please don't be mad at me!  Please don't tell me I can't come visit you!  I'm getting so old!  I love DS!  I love DS!  I want to come for Christmas!  Please!  Please!"  Meanwhile, DS is just waking from nap, needing a diaper change and a snack.  I say "ok, ok, just relax" ask her if she needs water, and grab my phone and dial DH.  MIL shuts off the waterworks before I can even hit "send" on my phone, and just says something like "I wonder who won the game?"  It's like none of it ever happened.  Then, when we say goodbye to them for the end of their visit, she says "see you at Christmas"

Take this two cents for what it's worth:  that is not an invitation.      I hope you, and your DH, understand that.  I keep thinking of what your mom could be in for, if you don't understand that.

Shutting off the waterworks in a flash is the telltale sign of crocodile tears.  That's not genuine emotion.

Have you read the book "Emotional Blackmail" by Susan Forward?  Blackmail is a "do this - or else" threat.   The book is helpful for learning ways to not to be held hostage by someone's emotional threat of "or else."  (I'm pretty sure deciding to give up the need for approval from the blackmailing person, is on the list....) 


Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: RedRose on December 06, 2011, 05:37:56 AM
I have a feeling my response will not be a popular one.

I am a MIL and all I see is another MIL that wants to be with her family on Christmas.
Maybe she feels Christmas is as important a holiday as Thanksgiving.  It is not her fault that you did not have your family for Thanksgiving also.

I need to say something about tears and emotions....I am this person. I cry very easily and it is NEVER because my tears make me get my way.  I would be very emotional in this situation also.






Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Pooh on December 06, 2011, 05:50:14 AM
Aww RedRose, you know we love you!

Sure, I see her MIL wants to be with her family for Christmas but it was her way of doing it that I find very wrong.  Combined with how she has been acting in totality with phillek and her other AC, this seems to be a pattern with her.   I'm sure your tears are legit, because you have described yourself as an emotional person and I believe you.  I think this MIL has learned that if she has a meltdown, she gets her way. 
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Scoop on December 06, 2011, 06:14:23 AM
What?  She's coming for Christmas?  After trash-talking your family and saying she wished she could cut your breast off?  What the what?

You know what you're teaching her?  If she has a tantrum, you will cave.  When your kids have tantrums, will you cave?  I hope not, or else you will be raising BRATS.

Your MIL is a BRAT and I'm SO MAD at her right now, for you.  In fact, I'm mad at you, for not being MORE mad at her.

I see that you have 2 options with this MIL.  You will either have to roll over completely and let her get her way.  Or you will have to set some hard boundaries.  And your DH is going to have to be completely on board with this, because it's going to be super-hard to re-train her on how to treat you and what you consider acceptable behaviour in your home and around your children.

So, you can (have DH) call her and tell her that your Mom will be here from x day until x day, and that she's welcome to come after your Mom leaves, or for New Year's (or whatever).  She will fuss and complain.  But I think the alternative is to have her come and she will ruin your Christmas.  She will try and dominate your DS, taking precious time away from your Mom and DS being together.  (If this only happens once a year, then it's PRECIOUS time, that's so very limited it should be jealously guarded.)  She will speak rudely to you.  She will try and take over your kitchen and your house.

The way I see it, you're going to fight with her anyway.  Might as well do it when she's in her home, 2 hours away, BEFORE Christmas, instead of ruining Christmas.

I know the MIL's here are sympathetic to the situation of a Son's Mom, BUT in this case, with the clear examples of crocodile tears, only saying mean things when the MIL & DIL are alone together, and steamrolling everything to get her own way, these are all hallmarks of a rotten person.

Good luck - you're going to need it.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Glenda on December 06, 2011, 06:24:22 AM
I too am an emotional person.  Tears are not used as a means to get my own way, it's just how I am.  I think Christmas is a very important time for all grandparents, & whenever possible should include both sets.  I cry for some people I know that don't get to see their grandchildren on such a special day.
Scoop, I agree that this mil is over the top, way over the top, & love your suggestion to have the gp over individually, but think this should happen on Christmas day, you know, a little time for my Mom, a little time for yours.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: RedRose on December 06, 2011, 06:31:50 AM
This MIL is an ill person, from what Phillek has said "MIL has problems with anxiety, depression, social skills, learning disablities, self esteem, dementia, you name it (this isn't my diagnoses, she is medicated and/or treated for all these things). "

This MIL may be rotton but she is also not well, and it shows in her behavior. All of her family seems to know and understand this.
 
Why be crewel to an ill person?
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Pooh on December 06, 2011, 07:20:29 AM
I don't see phillek as being cruel at all.  I see her as being very understanding of MIL's disease and trying very hard to work with her.  I also don't think a disease of any type gives you a free pass to be cruel to others either.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: pam1 on December 06, 2011, 07:22:49 AM
Redrose, I deal with a similar MIL, mentally ill as well.  It might seem cruel but those are (the suggestions/advice in this thread) are the most effective way in dealing with them, not only for the non afflicted, but the best thing for the afflicted. 
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: mysterygirl on December 06, 2011, 07:23:06 AM
This MIL may be rotton but she is also not well, and it shows in her behavior. All of her family seems to know and understand this.
 
Why be crewel to an ill person?

Having a mental illness (or being somewhat mentally unstable) doesnt give you a "free pass" or an "excuse" to behave poorly.  Im sorry but I dont think the OP needs to put up with or deal with her MILs poor behavior just because the rest of the family does it.

Add me to the camp of WHY is your MIL invited to Christmas?

Honestly, I wouldn't put up with this type of behavior from a friend, neighbor, co-worker, stranger on the street etc. I certainly wouldnt be willing to put up with this brash behavior from a FAMILY member.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Doe on December 06, 2011, 07:27:44 AM
Maybe one problem here, phillek, is that you are expecting rational behavior from someone who isn't rational.   You seem to want her to make sense but she isn't going to make sense.

When someone is truly irrational, you have to drop all your expectations of finding sane solutions.  You have to be the one in charge of the situation, imo.  This comes from experience with my mildly demented MIL living with us for 5 years.  Reality is not the same for people with true mental issues.

I think you're stuck with the invitation this year, but maybe there is a way you can limit the number of  days she is there so you can have some time with your mom without her.  Personally, I would just do it, tell her to come on the 24th and that she'll have to leave on the 26th.  Put her bags in the car and wave goodbye and go inside.  Expect some blow back from her but just calmly enforce it. 

Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Scoop on December 06, 2011, 07:37:50 AM
See?  When you're ILL, it doesn't make you do mean things, then when you see the consequences, you fake cry and cause a fuss and then STOP CRYING immediately after you get your way.  That's not an illness, that's just plain old mean behaviour.

People who are mentally ill may say the mean things, they may even realize it and regret it, to the point of tears, but the fake tears and then stopping?  That's just manipulation.

And people who are sensitive?  Who cry easily?  They can't just turn it off either.  So we're not talking about someone like that either.  Let's be clear here.

Also, I would consider a pedophile to be mentally-ill, but it doesn't mean I'm letting them near my DD.  Psychopaths are mentally-ill and they don't get a free pass either.  The OP has to determine what level of contact she's comfortable with.  She has to protect herself and her children's well-being (physical AND mental).

And again, boundaries are not punitive.  They are just an expression of what treatment is acceptable to you and draws the line at what you WILL NOT tolerate.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: justanoldgrandma on December 06, 2011, 10:07:20 AM
I totally agree that MIL shouldn't come for Christmas and is manipulative and outrageous.  Phillek, you are so patient and have suffered enough. 

So MIL has been officially diagnosed with mental illness and dementia.  Wonder if she is on medication and therapy?  Sounds like it's needed.

Anyone who has been educated as to how this affects the mind and behavior (a psychiatric doctor) probably recognizes the mindset which is different from the ordinary manipulative controlling MIL's.   She is acting like a spoiled brat but is also mentally ill.

It's too bad that the family has allowed this behavior bc even though she is mentally ill, she can learn how to act and speak appropriately and to feel for others.  I wonder if your dh and you and FIL and/or everyone involved could speak to her doctor(s) or a counselor, armed with her history and diagnosis, on how to deal with her so that she can be "retrained" or at least give you all advice on how to deal with her w/o giving in to her odd behavior and demands...... and so that your life and the lives of other relatives aren't constantly in upheaval.  If this is impossible, then the books suggested.

There's no way you should have to placate her and give in this way to her; the rest of her life she will make everyone miserable.  If you all haven't had some help with dealing with her, please do. 

And have dh call her with a no for Christmas.  No big explanations, just plans were already made.  (Believe me, I understand her being lonely for Christmas....maybe next year the two holidays can be reversed (alternated.)  She has to learn to share.)

I hope you can speak with someone, read something, get some help with dealing with her bc she is acting horribly and it's not the usual horrible MIL you are dealing with.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: justanoldgrandma on December 06, 2011, 10:14:12 AM
Oops, just reread OP's post that MIL is being medicated/treated for her conditions.  But sounds like she needs some therapy on how to get along w others.  And you all definitely need some assistance in how not to just give in to her, ignore her speeches, etc.  (Forgive me if you already have!)   All the advice given here and the books should help; if not, it's always helpful to talk with a professional on how to deal with a demanding and sick person w/o her running your lives.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: sapphire on December 06, 2011, 10:28:27 AM
Stand your ground. Re: crying. I believe crying is used as a very effective tool to make people feel bad. That may not be the intent, but nonetheless, that is what crying does. I also believe that changing your behavior in reaction to tears sets a precedent to repeat the same behavior until you decide you are not going to alter your behavior when the crying starts. It's harder to do later than sooner, IMO. I cry when I feel upset too...but, I do so in private, I will not let the rest of a happy room have the burden of my upset feelings. My emotions are not their problem, they are mind.

Your MIL might get a pass for uncontrollable emotions due to her disorders and problems, but that does not mean that she gets special treatment and gets to rearrange your plans.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: phillek on December 06, 2011, 12:15:05 PM
Wow, so much to respond to!  First, thank you all for your advice and support.  Thanks for the book suggestions, I will certainly check them out.

RedRose and Glenda, I especially appreciate your input.  The main reason I came to this site was to gain a different perspective.  Talking with my friends who sympathize with my situation sometimes makes me feel better, but it doesn't help me see the other side and I always end up back where I started.  I know that MIL comes from a place of hurt, and she is upset with me (whether her reason are valid are not, IDK), which is why she is often mean.  The Christmas visit in itself is not the main problem.  Honestly, I told Mom she would be there and she just said, "that's fine, no reason to exclude anyone.  I can share."  I didn't get into MILs rude comments with Mom- don't want her involved or uncomfortable.

So I am back to: Why?  What can I do differently?  It has helped to hear the suggestions that MIL is unreasonable and unpleasable.  I already knew this, but it helps me to try to follow DHs advice : "It's not your fault, do not feel guilty.  She is miserable and will never be satisfied, so just ignore her and do what you want."  I do feel guilty, though.  I do want her to be happy.  I try to put myself in her shoes, but the only thing I come back to is that if DS grows up to marry, and they are happy together and their children are happy, smart and healthy regardless of how they got that way, or my involvement in the process, what more could I need?

The things that seem to set MIL off are that she isn't needed enough: I don't complain about being a mother enough, I don't ask for more from her.  I do things differently than she would and don't apologize.  I know she is very jealous of my relationship with DS, and I'm pretty sure this is sick thinking on her part, but I'm not sure and would love opinions about this.  I think that the main reason she laid into me last time was less than the fact that DS had me pinned and I couldn't get away, and more that she was overcome with jealousy in seeing me hold my peaceful, sleeping baby.

I tried to give her more, but she wants everything.  She had been calling me several times a week, usually under some pretense that she wanted to know DS's clothing size or if he would like a certain toy (I don't ask her for gifts, but I don't mind her giving DS things if she wants).  The phone calls always ended up with her crying, saying how long it has been and how big he must be now (even after only a few weeks).  How she thinks of him day and night and touches his pictures and pretends that he is with her.  In other words, making me feel guilty, like I am keeping him from her, which I am not.  DS is the only GC and only GGC to nine people if you include my parents spouses and my grandparents, and MIL sees him ten times more than all of them combined.  I feel terrible about this, but I blocked her number from my phone and had DH tell her that my phone was broken.  I didn't know what else to do.  The last time she called, I let DS talk into the phone - "He's learned to count to 10, Grandma, isn't that great?!"  When I got the phone back she did not acknowledge his accomplishment, only wanted to know what he had for lunch and when was his nap?

She won't be satisfied until I say, "MIL, we are miserable and lost without you.  DS is too much of a handful, and we need you to come here and raise him for us.  I'll go back to work or move away so I can be out of your hair." and she seems to be trying every tactic in the book - guilt, manipulation, insults, tantrums to get us to do so.  Everything but love, kindness, and gentle support.

My choices are 1. Cut her off completely and get on with our life (feel guilty forever).  2. Bite my tounge, ignore her, and never be alone with her (feel defensive and on edge). 3. Have DH talk to her or FIL every time she is disrespectful, which is basically every time we have contact (feel like a difficult nusiance). 

All of these seem difficult considering my choice would be: 4. See her often, enjoy each other, share the joy of DS, be kind to one another.  Unfortunately, this one is impossible.

Regarding the questions about her mental illness:  FIL is a psychologist, and has taken full responsiblity for all things regarding her mental health.  We stay out of it.

A note about crying:  I have never seen her cry in front of anyone except me, either when we are alone or on the phone.  DH says she does not cry to him.  His family is very avoidant (hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil), and that could be the reason.  It also could be, as others have stated, a simple manipulation tactic.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Scoop on December 06, 2011, 12:34:23 PM
Oh my, you're going to have to learn a bunch of detachment with this woman.  But honestly, I tell my DD (7 y/o) that she is in charge of her emotions, and I think that applies to your MIL too, but also to you.  So you have to STOP yourself from feeling guilty.  Those are YOUR feelings and you're responsible for them.

For me, I just tell myself that I could fold myself in half 5 times and my MIL would say "Why not 6?"  With your MIL, there is NOTHING you can do to make her happy.  I don't think that she would even be happy if you left DS and DH for her to take care of.  Then, she would be unhappy with the way diapers are made now-a-days, or the fact that she would have to use a carseat, or the fact that kids shoes are not what they used to be. 

Do you hear me?

YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER HER HAPPINESS.  Absolutely NONE.

So, what do you do?  You take care of your own happiness and the happiness of your children.  So, invite the IL's if YOU want to.  Send her cards ect, or talk to her on the phone, WHEN IT SUITS YOU, because YOU are a nice person, not because she deserves it or because her happiness depends upon it.  As for the rest, let it go, it's not your responsibility.

Pull yourself back to a level where you're comfortable with your interactions with her.  Christmas is okay with your DM, that's awesome.  Your Mom rocks!

If MIL starts with the melodramatics, end the conversation.  "Oh look, DS is getting into something, I have to go!  Bye!"  Click.  Or take DS and leave the room.  Change the subject if you don't like the way a conversation is going.  Don't be afraid to say "MIL, you're obviously very upset about this, I'm going to let you take some time to get a hold of yourself.  Please call me back when you're calmer."
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Sassy on December 06, 2011, 12:46:35 PM
I think you would also do well to practice what many of us have learned.  Accept people for who they are, and not try to make them into who we wish they would become.  Accept your MIL for who she is.  Even if who she is,  is an unhappy person.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Doe on December 06, 2011, 01:25:43 PM
Quote from: phillek on December 06, 2011, 12:15:05 PM
  I already knew this, but it helps me to try to follow DHs advice : "It's not your fault, do not feel guilty.  She is miserable and will never be satisfied, so just ignore her and do what you want."  I do feel guilty, though.  I do want her to be happy. 

It sounds like you have been let off the hook by DH and by several MILs here but you still want to be on the hook! 
If someone treats you badly and you go back for more, I don't think you can blame the bully.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: phillek on December 06, 2011, 01:31:22 PM
Doe, Sassy, and Scoop,

Thank you, this helps.  I will definitely think about what you have said. 
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Sassy on December 06, 2011, 01:32:36 PM
QuoteShe is miserable and will never be satisfied, so just ignore her and do what you want."  I do feel guilty, though.  I do want her to be happy.

Your MIL has a right to her feelings, just as you have a right to yours. 

Your MIL has a right to be unhappy and dissatisfied, without her owing you to feel differently. Just as you have a right to be happy and satisfied, without you owing her feelings of complaint, insecurity, misery, and overwhelmedness.

QuoteI don't complain about being a mother enough, I don't ask for more from her.  I do things differently than she would and don't apologize. "

QuoteShe won't be satisfied until I say, "MIL, we are miserable and lost without you.  DS is too much of a handful, and we need you to come here and raise him for us.  I'll go back to work or move away so I can be out of your hair."

Your MIL isn't going to change how she feels, so that you can feel better about yourself as a DIL. 

Your MIL isn't going to change herself for your convenience.   

The only person who you can change is you.  Acceptance of what is, and letting go of that which is plainly and simply (and obviously) not in your control, is such a good place to start.

Syndicated advice columnist, and New Englander, Carolyn Hax suggests responding to tantrums from loved ones the following way.  She suggests saying basically, "I love you.  Let's talk later when you're feeling better" and ending the visit.
   
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Sassy on December 06, 2011, 01:36:59 PM
Phillek, I think you are a very good fit for this group.  I needed to remind myself a lot of what I thought about and wrote on this thread.  So thank you, right back at ya.  My MIL isn't diagnosed that I'm aware of, but something is definitely wrong with her.  The tears, the drama, the hysteria.   This is always a tough time of year, especially because she loves Christmas.  I miss her.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: RedRose on December 06, 2011, 04:59:07 PM
Quote from: phillek on December 06, 2011, 12:15:05 PM
My choices are 1. Cut her off completely and get on with our life (feel guilty forever).  2. Bite my tounge, ignore her, and never be alone with her (feel defensive and on edge). 3. Have DH talk to her or FIL every time she is disrespectful, which is basically every time we have contact (feel like a difficult nusiance). 

All of these seem difficult considering my choice would be: 4. See her often, enjoy each other, share the joy of DS, be kind to one another.  Unfortunately, this one is impossible.

Regarding the questions about her mental illness:  FIL is a psychologist, and has taken full responsiblity for all things regarding her mental health.  We stay out of it.


Phillik,

I would say reach for #4 as a goal and use #2 and 3 often.

A cuff-off is never an option (my opinion).

I admire you for caring so much about the mother of your husband even though she causes so much grief.

If she upsets you too much I would confide in your husband and let him (or his father) talk to her.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: RedRose on December 07, 2011, 05:30:40 AM
I am quoting Luise here...she just said this on anther thread yesterday. I believe what she has said applies here also.

"I think we can love without accepting abuse. We can love in our hearts and mean it sincerely and still maintain self-respect. When we hate, it only hurts us. Carrying that around make us toxic on some level."
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: justanoldgrandma on December 07, 2011, 07:28:27 AM
I thought I had posted this, but guess not, so forgive me if it's a repeat.

Ok, fil doesn't seem to be such a good psychologist when it comes to his dw.  I'm sure he's doing all he can and may be diffusing a lot of situations and maybe trying his best to keep mil from interferring, etc. 

But.... I don't think family members or friends are good psychologists when it comes to mental/personality disordered people they love...... too close to them to be effective.

I know you are staying out of her mental health and that's good bc you can't do anything about that.

But you can help yourself deal with her and your feelings.  You can't change her, as many say.  You are so considerate and thoughtful.  Will you be my dil?! 

Yet you have to be able to enjoy your family and keep mil from intruding and also making you feel guilty and used. 

When I was in acute anxiety over another son and his alcoholic wife, there was nothing I could do as he didn't talk about it; I saw destruction (which occurred but is over, thanks be to God, sincerely) but could do nothing to help; had to stay mute and dh didn't want to hear it and couldn't confide in others while it was going on (for several years.)

(I know your situation is different.)  But I found a counselor who totally got it and let me know my feelings were valid and helped me let it go.  With other IL problem, she let me know it wasn't me, and how to deal w the IL.  Setting some boundaries, helping me not feel so hurt.

If you can talk to a counselor or pastor or wise friend (or us!) it would help you vent and also help you set those boundaries; and ways to assert yourself with her; the family has let this go on and it's not good; you'll not change her but you can change how she treats you and how you react to her inappropriate behavior.

You have every right to have mom over for Christmas or go to her house w/o MIL; you need a break.  DH or FIL can insist on this if she won't listen to you!  As others said, maybe a short visit with her a couple of weeks after Christmas; you need a break! (Maybe next year Thanksgiving and Christmas can be alternated; if you want!)
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: phillek on December 07, 2011, 07:55:27 AM
I'm so thankful that I found this group.  I think just the discussion is helping me.  It is certainly helping DH and I since the topic comes up a lot less - We have already said it all, and sometimes I just need to talk about it with someone.  My friends are probably grateful, too :)

I know I'm not supposed to "shout", but THANKS EVERYONE SO MUCH!!
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Shelby on December 07, 2011, 01:25:53 PM
Quote from: phillek on December 07, 2011, 07:55:27 AM
  I think just the discussion is helping me.  It is certainly helping DH and I since the topic comes up a lot less - We have already said it all, and sometimes I just need to talk about it with someone.  My friends are probably grateful, too :)


Phil - I find the same benefit.  I sometimes re-read threads where I've posted about a situation and gotten advice from the ladies here.  It's nothing new that I'm reading - it's just that reading it again and again reinforces to me that --- there's nothing I can say or do -- there's nothing I SHOULD say or do --- and I need to have peace.  It also saves my husband's patience as well, as I don't need to keep hashing and re-hashing the same old ground with him.  Glad you have found some comfort here.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Pooh on December 08, 2011, 05:26:41 AM
This too gives me a place to discuss, learn and read so I don't drive my friend and DH bonkers!  Actually, I really only have one friend that knows most of my story, my bestie and she's great, I don't really discuss it with anyone but her and my DH, but I know they have to be grateful it's not a daily topic with them.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: JaneF on December 24, 2011, 02:21:38 PM
All I can say at this point about the MIL you described in the initial post is WOW.  I feel she has "boundary issues" for sure!  Going through or cleaning your closets or anything else of yours without your permission is a prime example.  I am sorry you are experiencing these things.  I am a MIL, and a DIL, so I've been on both sides of this coin so to speak. lol  My first MIL was one of my best friends, and I respected her a great deal.  Sadly she passed away from lung cancerat age 65 almost 3 years ago. I miss her terribly, and loved her like she was my own mother really, even though her son and I divorced 24 years ago!  My current mother in law drives me wild at times, but in her defense, she has honestly never "been quite right" mentally, so some of her behaviors must be kind of understood and over looked.  Dementia is a sad reality, but one out of her control of course.  I did help take care of her before she got to the stage she was having delusions, and especially thought I was stealing her lotion and Bible book marks...oh dear, then I had to back away and let her son do what he felt was appropriate (which is basically nothing!!!).  She falls, drives, and lives alone with her worsening paranoia and delusions, SAD!  Now I have a DIL who from the very early stages of her relationship with my middle son decided how things were going to be, and she set forth with a plan to slowly remove his entire family from his life and the lives of their daughters (my grandchildren)...and the plan worked beautifully...of course he played a large role by totally changing his personality and began EXPECTING I should just GIVE to them, and is angry because I do not agree (he makes more money than my husband, and more than my salary too...not my fault his wife opts to be stay at home mom even though kids are both in school now.  That is their choice, and I support what ever they choose as it is their life...but don't expect me to work my tail off to give to you, as you are adults!  So it's a terrific mix of people and situations we have here on this web site is it not?  It is helpful to listen to others stories and views I think.  It is also helpful to not judge, but offer advice if asked for of course!  Your situation sounds very challenging indeed!  I do hope things improve for you somehow.  I also hope your MIL gets the help it appears she might need! Best to you and yours, and happy holidays!
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: justanoldgrandma on December 24, 2011, 04:13:14 PM
Quote from: RedRose on December 06, 2011, 04:59:07 PM
Quote from: phillek on December 06, 2011, 12:15:05 PM
My choices are 1. Cut her off completely and get on with our life (feel guilty forever).  2. Bite my tounge, ignore her, and never be alone with her (feel defensive and on edge). 3. Have DH talk to her or FIL every time she is disrespectful, which is basically every time we have contact (feel like a difficult nusiance). 

All of these seem difficult considering my choice would be: 4. See her often, enjoy each other, share the joy of DS, be kind to one another.  Unfortunately, this one is impossible.

Regarding the questions about her mental illness:  FIL is a psychologist, and has taken full responsiblity for all things regarding her mental health.  We stay out of it.




Phillik,

I would say reach for #4 as a goal and use #2 and 3 often.

A cuff-off is never an option (my opinion).

I admire you for caring so much about the mother of your husband even though she causes so much grief.

If she upsets you too much I would confide in your husband and let him (or his father) talk to her.

Phillek, eager to hear how Christmas came out; hope mil didn't disturb the holiday.

I'm glad you have taken steps to detach mil and not "obey" her unreasonable demands which are to me part bully and part mental illness. 

I'm glad you and dh are discussing how to handle her; it's too bad the whole family has tolerated her behavior so long.....

About her behavior..... I know I'm repeating myself, but FIL is in my opinion not qualified to be her therapist (family members rarely can.)  Maybe she needs different meds, but she also definitely needs counseling, very strict boundaries that fil isn't able to put on her; how he and the family have endured her behavior is beyond me.

I know you and dh are staying out of her mental health, but I would discuss w fil her status and why he isn't able to correct or at least comment on her behavior.  And I would strongly suggest she go to someone other than her dh for mental help. 

Her mental health IS yours and dh's business bc left unchecked, she is going to continue to intrude.  She also sounds like a troubled woman in need of help.......she may always be mentally unstable, but her behavior can be checked to some degree.

Counseling, psychiatrist, dementia expert, someone, please!
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: herbalescapes on December 25, 2011, 10:07:42 AM
The Surgeon General has ruled that do-it-yourself, at-home mastectomies can be hazardous to your health.

Merry Christmas everyone!
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: phillek on December 28, 2011, 02:24:03 PM
Well, we survived.  Not so surprisingly, MIL was on her very best behavior, trying to show what a wonderful decision we made in inviting her.  Not that I'm complaining that she didn't do or say anything out of line, but it just proves that she is perfectly capable of controlling herself if it is in her best interest to do so.  The worse thing that happened was that we felt obligated to spend the morning with them before they left which took a little chunk of my DM's precious time with us.  We could have certainly said no, so I guess it's our own fault for feeling guilty, but MIL is so needy and DM is so.....not.  Also, MIL hogged the spot next to DS at dinner... now I'm just nitpicking really.  This always happens, though.  She has a couple of days where she's "not so bad" and I am eager to draw her in closer, then she takes the opportunity to take me out at full force.  It's like I open a window to the wall I've put up and she sees that as her cue to break down the door.  I have to keep my guard up constantly, and it's exhausting.  For example, DS and I were playing in a room alone, MIL walks in by herself, and I had to remember to leave the situation immediately in order to take away her opportunity to say somethig rude/guilt trip, etc.  It's sad, really.

Jane F., it sounds like your current MIL situation and mine are similar.  I do believe it is probably tough for any family to admit that an older member needs the kind of support and care you might give a child.  Not sure how long my MIL has been this way, but she certainly has been "off" since I've known her (about 10 years or so).  The main issue I have with her is her... I'm not sure of the right words to describe it... extreme social awkardness??  I'm never totally sure if she means to be rude, which sounds ridiculous if you don't know her because the things she does are things a normal person would obviously never do.  I gave the example in another post of how she called me my DH's ex-GF's name for about a year.  I politely corrected her or ignored her each time, or she caught herself, but she never stopped until I specifically asked her to stop doing it.  Sounds like an awful person, right?  Well, it's confusing, because when I'm with her I just feel uncomfortable and sorry for her; the anger only catches up with me after the fact.

JAOG, I totally agree with you that FIL is not qualified to care for her in that way.  Again, DH wants to stay away from it, so I am in no position to give my opinion on the matter.  I just have to continue to be careful the situations I put myself in, and report anything upsetting to DH, who will report to FIL.  I'm sure nothing I could say to FIL would ever override his own ego, and truthfully, he does know her better than I do.  I'm no more qualified to give him my opinion of his care of her than MIL is to give her opinion of my care of DS.  He continues to treat her like a four-year-old, and she continues to act like one.  He is the one that has to live with her, so whatever works.  The sticky part is when FIL does things like refers to MIL as a "child-care expert" (picture him patting her on the head and saying, "aren't you sweetheart?") and MIL uses that to try guilt me into giving her more say/responsiblity with DS.  It's frustrating because I wan't to shake him and say "She doesn't need MORE self-assurance!  She needs a reality check!" 

On rudeness that may just be social awkwardness... an interesting dig:  My birthday was a couple of weeks ago.  MIL, who is on facebook daily but almost never posts, decided to put up a couple of photos that day.  One baby photo of DH on his first birthday with the caption:  "DH (her DS) on his first birthday, XX/XX.  DS's (her GS) birthday is XX/XX."  The same with another photo of DH on his second birthday.  Both DH and DS birthday were more than a few weeks/months away, so their was no reason to put up the photos that day.  ZERO mention of me, DH's wife and DS's mother, who happened to be having a birthday on that day.  I know she knew it was my birthday - I had a million birthday wishes on my wall and MIL frequently mentions my facebook traffic when she talks to me.  She didn't write on my wall or mention me in another post, but she did call to tell me happy belated birthday the following day.  I didn't mention the photos and neither did she.  I don't expect her to publicly acknowledge my birthday, but why go out of her way to acknowledge DS and DH and leave me out?  It seems like a pretty blatant dig to me, but DH seems to think she is just crazy and doesn't know what she is doing.  But that's her way - when it comes to taking responsiblity for her own actions, she claims incompetence.  On the flip side, she wants to make me feel guilty for not letting her have more responsiblity for DS.  It's a very confusing situation, to say the least.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Doe on December 28, 2011, 05:00:50 PM
I have a few people that I'm friends with on FB who annoy me but I don't want to unfriend.  I just hide the their feeds so I'm not reminded of them.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: phillek on December 28, 2011, 07:55:30 PM
Quote from: Doe on December 28, 2011, 05:00:50 PM
I have a few people that I'm friends with on FB who annoy me but I don't want to unfriend.  I just hide the their feeds so I'm not reminded of them.

Good idea!  She rarely ever posts, though.  I'll do it anyway :)
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Pooh on December 29, 2011, 05:58:08 AM
You can also restrict her so she can't see any of your posts, without unfriending her.  Muah ha ha ha...I have done that with two people.  It was two people from my past life that really didn't do anything to me for me to unfriend them (Ex's friends) but after hearing from others a few times that XXXXX said you were doing this, XXXX said you got engaged already.....yeah I knew they were just being nosey and anything I put on there, they ran and told everyone!  So, I restricted them so they couldn't see my posts!  Ha ha ha....felt really good to do it that way.  What were they going to say?  Hey, I can't see your wall anymore????  "Hmmm...that's strange.  I wonder if after so many months of never commenting, leaving me a message or anything, FB figures you aren't being active with that friend and just stops showing you their posts?  I had no idea you couldn't see them, of course that would explain why you never left me a good comment?  Weird huh? Ain't technology something?"

I so wanted to be able to say that....but hmmm...they haven't ever said anything.   ;D
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Shelby on December 29, 2011, 08:11:33 AM
Quote from: Pooh on December 29, 2011, 05:58:08 AM
two people from my past life that really didn't do anything to me for me to unfriend them (Ex's friends) but after hearing from others a few times that XXXXX said you were doing this, XXXX said you got engaged already.....yeah I knew they were just being nosey and anything I put on there, they ran and told everyone!  So, I restricted them so they couldn't see my posts!

  ;D

Pooh -- you know I absolutely think the world of you.   But . . . .  can you really keep a straight face and call these two folks nosey when you put the info on FB yourself?  I maintain that anything put on the internet is NOT private, and those who assume it is do so at their own risk. 
I never put anything on the internet that I am unwilling for the world to know.   
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: Pooh on December 29, 2011, 08:30:47 AM
Yep.  I can call them nosey!  Lol.  I don't ever put anything on there that I care for anyone to see or hear about what I am doing.  There is no expectation of privacy on anything internet.  But people that are on my friends list, that never even "like" a status, picture or comment on anything, but yet seem to always know what I have been doing and telling everyone?  Yep...to me, that's just being nosey about my business.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: pam1 on December 29, 2011, 09:38:59 AM
Quote from: phillek on December 28, 2011, 07:55:30 PM
Quote from: Doe on December 28, 2011, 05:00:50 PM
I have a few people that I'm friends with on FB who annoy me but I don't want to unfriend.  I just hide the their feeds so I'm not reminded of them.

Good idea!  She rarely ever posts, though.  I'll do it anyway :)

I put those kind of people on restricted.  I only joined FB recently (and if you knew my history here about how much I dislike the FB drama you would laugh.)  But I joined to have fun with my sisters, they send me links to videos that I had to log into FB to see so I signed up and somehow I ended up with a bazillion friends.  The people who never comment or say anything I assume just added me to up their friend count or they are nosey LOL.

And, I'm not up to monitoring myself on FB, I'm the same way there that I am everywhere else.  My sisters and I joke a lot and post funny youtubes...things my MIL/SILs would find offensive.  It may sound harsh but I don't care that they wouldn't like it, *I* just don't want the drama.  So on the restrict list they go and I hide their news feed.

Over Xmas one of my SILs was writing a daily reflection of what Xmas meant to her and I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.  All this time when people come here and talk about FB drama and I say "stay away" "don't listen"...somehow I got caught up in it.  (we changed up tradition this year and only gave to children and stayed at home for Xmas) and her daily reflections were all in response to this.  So blocked she was! 

I think FB is meant to be fun and when it stops being fun, either I go or someone goes off my page!
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: phillek on December 29, 2011, 12:01:55 PM
Facebook is tricky.  I see Pooh's point about nosey people.  I don't post that often, and I'm careful when I do.  I have a wide variety of friends from DH's coworkers to older family to IL, so I never put up anything I wouldn't want everyone to see.  However - here's that social awkwardness again - it is strange to have MIL ask "How's your friend, (name), and her son, (name)?  I know you met at the park the other day."  She  never met these people, so it's just weird!  I can't block her totally though, because she is obsessed with photos of DS and it would be cruel to take them away from her.  I am looking into a photo sharing site, though.  Hopefully I can take care of that soon!

I hid her posts.  It's such a bummer because I would love to look at baby photos of DH, just not when they are used to slight me - sheesh!  How tricky is that?!  It's not like I can say, "How dare you put up adorable photos of my DH and acknowledge my DS on MY birthday!"  I just have to let it go... or pour it all out on this site.  Thanks, ladies!  ;)
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: phillek on December 29, 2011, 12:44:05 PM
Quote from: Shelby on December 29, 2011, 08:11:33 AM
Quote from: Pooh on December 29, 2011, 05:58:08 AM
two people from my past life that really didn't do anything to me for me to unfriend them (Ex's friends) but after hearing from others a few times that XXXXX said you were doing this, XXXX said you got engaged already.....yeah I knew they were just being nosey and anything I put on there, they ran and told everyone!  So, I restricted them so they couldn't see my posts!

  ;D

Pooh -- you know I absolutely think the world of you.   But . . . .  can you really keep a straight face and call these two folks nosey when you put the info on FB yourself?  I maintain that anything put on the internet is NOT private, and those who assume it is do so at their own risk. 
I never put anything on the internet that I am unwilling for the world to know.

I get it.  It's sort of like if you were stuck in a room with a bunch of people and you have a low conversation with one other person.  Another person in the room is looking down at their book, seemingly ignoring you, which is fine because the conversation has nothing to do with them.  Later, they start to ask you detailed questions about your conversation, like they were hanging on every word.  Of course you knew they could hear you, but you can't really understand why they were listening in the first place.  My MIL actually does this, too, now that I think of it!
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: justanoldgrandma on December 29, 2011, 09:32:06 PM
I have gotten on and off FB a couple of times bc it just bothers me; I never post anything about myself or family bc of fear of strangers (they can hack in, ya know!) and also bc I don't want to "butt in" on the young folks' goings-on (ILs.)  So i just "like" some photos and stick w the older gals my age, making any post I read about their kids/health, etc.  I don't comment on IL's posts bc it seems an invasion of her privacy; I much prefer emails......

I'm sure you can't block MIL!  (You could always claim it's a mistake, but that wouldn't work, I know.) 

I know some people get off when it causes trouble of some sort; guess they consider their peace and privacy more important than the social side; and when there's a MIL knowing all your business, well....!  I do some IMs to friends as well as email bc I want nothing in my personal life on there for my friends who include tricky relationships...... (I know, that's the purpose of FB!) 

I pretend that I know nothing about anyone's activities that I feel might be offended when I'd say, "Heard you were at a party the other night!"  Ignorance is bliss!
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: JudyJudyJudy on December 30, 2011, 10:10:24 PM
I am sure you want your MIL's approval and compliments and it bothers you that she acts the way she does, which sounds self centered to me.  She might just be picking on you because she knows how to push or buttons.  In other words, she knows where your sore spots are and hits there -- which no nice person would do to someone else.

I'm not sure how to advise you to proceed because MILs are sensitive to any insults from their children's spouses and anything you say or do could cause all kinds of problems.  If there was any way you could not let what she says affect you, that would be best and the only way I know how to do that is to heal those sore spots.  That way, you can stand back and look at her for the way she is and feel sorry for her.
Title: Re: What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.
Post by: phillek on December 31, 2011, 05:54:16 AM
JAOG, It seems like you have perfect facebook etiquette!

Judy, You are absolutely right.  I just have to get there.