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Quote from: Pooh on July 09, 2015, 09:43:01 AM

   I have always said, in my opinion, the DH plays a MAJOR role in the relationship or non-relationship between a DIL and MIL.  When your DH doesn't stand up for you to his Mother, he's basically telling her it is ok to treat you this way.  On the other side, if you said or did something to his Mother that was uncalled for, he should be speaking to you about it. 

Pooh - I agree that the DS/DH plays a major role.   In our situation, both my husband and I reached out and welcomed the then-GF, who later became our DIL, with open arms.  She gave us the cold shoulder from the beginning, even before the wedding, and after a few years of marriage, it was full-blown snub.  So now I ignore her.  On the rare occasions we even talk with DS, I don't bother even asking about her. 

I do feel that when they were dating and first married and she snubbed us, that by not standing up for us, DS was basically  telling her it was OK to treat us like that.  So we were disappointed in him not standing up for us. 

Only worse thought is that maybe he DID stand up for us, and she cares so little for what even HE thinks that she STILL treats us this way.  Either way, her cold treatment of us has damaged our relationship with him. 

Which is so sad, as he was the cutest, sweetest little boy in the world.  I miss him. 

Hi, Greenie - -

I too would not go to the shower a thousand miles away -  ( Also it is improper for a family member to host a shower.  Family members can host weddings and birthday parties, but it is an etiquette violation for a family member to host a shower.  Gives the appearance of grubbing for gifts, even if that is not the case.  But that's another topic. . . )

Anyway, even if you were on good terms with your daughter, it would be an imposition to expect you to travel such a distance for a preliminary party.  So definitely don't go.  But don't pretend you didn't get the invitation.   I think StillLearning has the best solution - Send a modest gift with a nice card, expressing your best wishes and let the hostess know you will not be able to attend.   You do not need to give a reason with your response to the invitation - - just "I regret I will be unable to attend the shower, but I look forward to seeing you all at the wedding."   Short, sweet, gracious, but no JADEing. 

Frankly, I am on great terms with my daughter, who lives far away, and I don't believe I would travel more than a few hours by car for a shower in her honor.  When I visit her, i want to spend time with HER - - not sipping tea with a bunch of other women I don't know.  So where this idea came from that friends and family of the bride must travel not only for the big day, but also for pre-parties is beyond me. 

Quote from: Green Thumb on June 26, 2015, 05:42:36 PM

. . . .their alcoholic, mentally ill, & narcissistic father who will be at this party playing "the great guy" and criticizing me. . . . .

WWU is a great site for issues with our family members.  If your ex is narcissistic and mentally ill, you might benefit from another very positive, constructive site for people dealing with others who have personality disorders.  It is called Out of the Fog.  You might find it very helpful in having to cope with him and anyone else in your life who has a personality disorder.

Best wishes, Greenie - but do what Sill says and you will be above reproach. 

Quote from: Stilllearning on June 23, 2015, 07:33:08 AM

Thanks to the women here I took a good hard look at how my DS had been treating me and I decided that I did not really like how he was acting!!  I decided that I did not really enjoy his company so why was I trying so hard to get along with either one of them???  What an eye opener!  Once they sensed that I was no longer running after them begging for attention their attitude towards me changed.  I have learned my lesson.  No one but my DH will ever have the emotional ammunition to hurt me that badly again.  I am back in control.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUBnxqEVKlk

I couldn't agree more.  I was the one trying, DIL was not, DS was oblivious or worse.  I kept trying because I love my son, but then I took the good hard look at it, and realized I did not like how HE was treating me.  Not just how SHE was treating me - but HIM as well.  I realized I should not tolerate that treatment from anyone - wouldn't have even considered it had he not been the son I loved.  I decided that, son or not, I was not going to take that treatment from anyone.  So I stopped.  Didn't make any big announcement or anything - just went my own way, let them go theirs.  Easy since they are so far away. 

I finally decided that giving birth to someone is no reason to tolerate emotionally abusive behavior.  So I don't anymore.   Life is much better.  Key is letting go.   

Quote from: Stilllearning on June 19, 2015, 05:55:54 AM
Thumper I think H was having a bad day.  I totally agree with LC.  And to be honest teething or not is not the question.  I think your DIL does not want any suggestions whatsoever. 

I totally totally agree with Still.  Especially where she says your DIL does not want any suggestions whatsoever.   After getting the cold shoulder from son's girlfriend during the dating period, I knew from the beginning she would not welcome any type of relationship with me.  When they married and exchanged vows, I also made a vow. I vowed never to use the words "you" and "should" in the same sentence.  And I have kept that vow.   

It doesn't mean that DIL likes me, but it does mean that whatever happens between DS and DIL cannot be blamed on my "interference" - because there isn't any!  If there is an issue in the marriage, they will have to look to each other, and not blame it on me. 

Small comfort, but Still is also right when she says to fill your time and thoughts with activities that you and DH enjoy - it is so much more pleasant to do the things we could not do when the kids were young and our lives revolved around them than it is to try to maintain a relationship with a DIL who does not want anything to do with us, and a son who is going along with that.   

Now our lives get to revolve around US. 

Quote from: Lillycache on June 16, 2015, 08:34:06 AM

QuoteOf course your husband is right about the baby having been teething.  He may have just been making conversation, but most of us MILs here have learned to not make any suggestions whatsoever.   I am just glad it was your DH making the teething comment, not you, because if a MIL makes such a comment, many DILs are greatly offended and take it as an insult that the MIL thinks the DIL isn't a good mother, etc. etc.  So most of us don't go there - and would not even suggest a raincoat if it was raining cats and dogs.

Just a funny story.. and it underlines how TRUE your statement is.  Right before my final break with DIL, when the youngest grandson was a newborn, I made the horrific mistake to commenting that I was pretty sure his eyes were going to be brown.. not blue like the other kids'...  Holy Moly...  you would have thought I was predicting he was going to grow up to be an ax murderer. 

So, Lilly - I'm dying to know - - is your your adorable grandson an ax murderer??   

Lilly - in "Gone with the Wind", after Scarlett (Vivien Leigh) gives birth to her daughter, Rhett (Clark Gable) comments that the baby's eyes are as blue as the bonny blue flag, therefore they will call the baby "Bonny".  Melanie (Olivia DeHaviland) tells Rhett that all babies eyes are blue when they are born.   But Rhett was not offended, neither was Scarlett.   Darn good thing Melanie wasn't somebody's MIL.   

JTDM posted while I was writing - just wanted to say that I agree totally with you, JTDM.  You hit the nail on the head when you say the DIL chooses whether there will be inclusion or exclusion.   

Quote from: Thumper on June 15, 2015, 08:14:48 AM
My DIL . . . . ruled her parents roost while growing up. Unfortunately she has never given us the respect we give to her and our son gives to her parents. My son and husband speak on the phone daily because of our sons risky job. During our last visit my DIL voiced her dislike for my husbands advice to our son. For example the baby was fussy and so my husband said perhaps he was hungry or teething. My DIL called me to instruct us to stop suggesting these things...the baby is only fussy with our son! A week later the baby's first tooth came in. I keep my mouth shut with her and turn the other cheek when she tells me I'm goofy. There have been no plans to come home to visit us and if we want to see our son and the baby we travel down to them. But are instructed by DIL we can only stay a few days...one day for travel - the next full day of a visit and have to leave the next day. Which is fine, we don't want to interfere. But now our son has stopped calling my husband and during our last visit his joke telling and smiles have gone away. His good neighbor friend no longer comes to say hi when we arrive...our son says he isn't sure what happened to their friendship. I just wanted to share that as a mother of a son, it makes me sad that we won't be in his life to share. Not to meddle in his private life but to share and be included in this next phase of his life with his little boy. I will get on with re inventing things to keep me from having a broken heart. Thanks for letting me share.

Hi Thumper.  You will find you are in good company.  For me, that helped a great deal, to know it wasn't just me.  For starters, I would have to agree with everything Lillycache said. 

Next, you say she ruled her parents' roost.  Could she be one of the trophy kids, and expect you to worship her as the special snowflake that she is?   I fear my Dil may be one of those - I gave her a warm welcome - but did not worship her, and that may have been part of her wanting nothing to do with me, if she is used to getting her own way. 

Of course your husband is right about the baby having been teething.  He may have just been making conversation, but most of us MILs here have learned to not make any suggestions whatsoever.   I am just glad it was your DH making the teething comment, not you, because if a MIL makes such a comment, many DILs are greatly offended and take it as an insult that the MIL thinks the DIL isn't a good mother, etc. etc.  So most of us don't go there - and would not even suggest a raincoat if it was raining cats and dogs. 

You say they don't visit - that you have to do the traveling.   Do you stay with them?  If money is not an issue, I would probably suggest a reasonable motel or B&B nearby.   Personally, I would not be comfortable staying with a DIL who treated me the way she treats you - so it would be worth the money to not be a guest in her house.  At least that is what my DH and I do when we visit our out-of-town son and DIL. 

The way your DIL is will not change.  Sorry.   You might read the No Win Deal thread - many many posts by MILs who have walked many miles in your shoes.  It won't change anything - but you will see that you are not alone.   

My concern is that your DS' behavior has changed.  Not calling your husband anymore.  Your DH could talk to your son about this - (you shouldn't as it was not you the DS had been calling.  the daily calls had been to your DH - so he is the one to explore with your son why the change) -- not suggesting that your DH interrogate your son - but maybe call him, ask if all is OK between father and son - and if daily calls are too much, maybe son could call a couple of times a week - or even just once a week.   This wouldn't be a call about problems the DIL's behavior is causing - - leave her out of it.  It also wouldn't' be about your hurt feelings.   This would just be a conversation between son and father about what has changed between the two of them. 

Anyway, these are just my basic thoughts.  I'm sure others will chime in.  But you are far from the only loving mother whose son married a woman who, for whatever reason, wants nothing to do with her in-laws.   

Quote from: Pooh on April 27, 2015, 09:29:49 AM
Continue exactly as you have been.  It's his issue to go through and all you can do is be supportive but detached.  You never know when all of a sudden, they decided to work it out.  Be Switzerland.

Pooh is exactly 1000% right.  Make that 2000% right.  I too would be Switzerland.  However, I would also do a very, very secret happy dance*.   

Quote from: Green Thumb on June 09, 2015, 04:22:16 PM

I am learning so much from all of you. Practicing detachment for those grandchildren yet to be born who will not know me. Acceptance and not expecting anything or more love.

This is why I am hoping my DS and DIL do not have children.  They live far away, we don't see him much, but we would see him even less if they had kids.  And I don't believe we would be allowed much of a relationship with any GCs.  DIL is already very territorial regarding DS (who was MY baby) - I imagine she would be even more possessive of HER babies.)   So I'd rather not have GCs at all than to have GCs I don't know and at the same time see LESS of our own son. 

Quote from: shiny on June 06, 2015, 01:11:05 PM
Monroe! This is hilarious!!

Guess I'm living under a rock since this never occurred to me.  Duh...

Yes, Shiny, and you are never going to compete with DIL in THAT arena - or we will have to call the authorities!   

When they think with the little head, logic and fairness have no place.   

Quote from: shiny on June 06, 2015, 12:59:18 PM

Seems to me DIL would want to be friendly and kind to her DH's family if she knows that would make him happy and bring peace?

I agree.  DH and I visit his VERY elderly (and sweet as pie) widowed father every week.  DH cannot go in the middle of the week, as FIL is asleep before DH finishes work and dinner.  So I go mid-week every week, to make it not so long in-between visits.   FIL and I have a good relationship, and what I do for FIL is SOOOOOOO appreciated by DH.  I am getting back WAY more than I give. 

Quote from: shiny on June 06, 2015, 12:59:18 PM

What I can't understand is why my DS allows this behavior when he was not raised this way?
I keep going back to him -- how HE can let it continue?

SEX

Quote from: gettingoldandcranky on June 05, 2015, 02:22:48 AM
thanks shiny and monroe.
my end game is playing out now - i hope i finally get it.
  i have a medical test scheduled and my ds did not call to offer caring or support.  dil wrote an email -" good job keeping up on things - let us know how it goes."  signed it "regards".  no love sent, no call received.
this should be my bowing out moment.  i need to stay strong. 

Hi Goldie - thinking of you, hope you are doing OK.  Let us know.  Not that you want to be that schoolmate chasing the cool kids, either, but I will simply observe that you got an encouraging email from your DIL.   Probably more than Shiny and I ever got.   She asked, so let her know how it went, and then bow out - drop the rope, get busy with life.   Volunteer groups - walks in park - what do you like to do?   Are you retired?   Still punching the time clock?  You have lots to offer - go where  you are appreciated.  You don't have to cut them off, but drop the rope.  Make them wonder.   (I've been playing hard-to-get with my kids for years.  They have yet to notice.     )

Lilly and Pen - how are you both doing? 

Shiny - in an earlier post you said --

"Should I be the one to always tiptoe around her, not wanting to upset her, while I suffer in silence and confusion?
I'm really getting too old for all this nonsense..."

My answer has become NO.  I decided I was tired of tiptoeing around, walking on eggshells, reaching out, pretending everything was fine, giving her the benefit of the doubt when major family events were ignored.  (Not events about me - but other members of DS' FOO - deaths, life-threatening illnesses, milestone birthdays - and I mean three-digit birthdays).  I have thrown in the towel.  It was always unreasonable of me to expect her to respond and want to connect with our family.  Well, maybe not always, but at least after the first year or two.  But I kept on, like an idiot not getting the message.  She truly must have thought I was dumb as a post. 

But we recently had a solo visit from DS.  It was marvelous.  Had a great time, talked about lots of things, but I didn't ask about DIL at all, and he didn't really talk about her either - only in the course of "we did this or we did that"   not "she this or she that".  So I have dropped the rope, as they say. 

By the way, I am far from a helicopter mom/MIL.   I always thought my job as mom was to raise my kids to be independent and self-sufficient.  I encouraged them and supported them - but let them fight their own battles growing up.  So they could deal with challenges and problems as adults, without my help.  I succeeded very well there.   

I can be guilty of many things, but being a Helicopter MIL is not one of them.  So, like Shiny, there is no reason for the refusal to have a relationship - except for what is inside DIL.