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I am at my wits end, I dont know what to do now and I feel as though its all my fault althought my DH says not. My eldest son met his GF when he was at Uni and when he took his finals she found out she was pregnant. We have supported them from then on. Spent a lot of time with GS who is a little sweetie.We are a big family but she has never really joined in  (says shes shy) About 2 years ago DS was fed up as she would not get a job and he was working his butt off to make ends meet. he had an affair and she found out. He told his Dad and asked him not to tell me but as we are a really close couple he did but told DS and Gf that he had. That was it they never came near for weeks despite lots of calls and arguments, said his Dad had let him down. Things calmed down and we could see the GS but my Ds never came near. They would not come to any family weddings, christenings etc. It all came to a head before Xmas when I told Ds I was not happy with the way he was treating us I wanted to know why he wouldnt phone or come round He showed GF the e-mail and she  went mental at me and now refuses to let us see GS. If only I had kept my mouth shut maybe at least we could still be seeing our little GS. WHat can I do my friends and family say leave them to it he will realise she is a manipulative woman and so nasty to keep a GS from his Grandparents. But I am at my wits end....help

Welcome Farrelly80
My unprofessional opinion is simple.  Your son and dil can not have an honest relationship with you until they can be honest with each other.  These two have a lot to figure out between themselves and until they do it will continue to effect every aspect of their lives, including parenting and family.  This is where you step back and once they have run out of people to blame they will hopefully start taking responsibility.  Wishing you luck.

My Take" Has your husband apologized for breaking a confidence? Have you for interfering in something you had not been made privy to? To me, this is a "he said/she said" thing that is destroying a family. Their ups and downs are part of growing up and none of your business. You can't go there. IMHO his dad should have told him that and told you nothing. I would try to repair that if it's possible. Sending love...

Welcome farrelly80

yanno, one of the hardest things to do, is to keep your mouth shut as a mother...but we learn, however, in your case, I don't think you did anything wrong by asking son....and I'd have to ask him...."you know DIL better then anyone, and yet, you showed her this email from your mother, even though you knew she'd go balistic over it?"  Where is he coming from...

They are both acting very selfish and immature...and regardless of what happened, your DIL would have taken that child from you anyway, it was only a matter of time....any woman, would understand, a mother asking a son what you asked...her spazing out over it, tells me, she was looking for something so that she could do this?  And what she has done, and son has allowed her to do, is heartless and unthinking...but both of them are to blame....please remember that....

So, for now, what I'd do, is let them alone, and work it out, and never allow them to treat you less then you deserve...believe me, they will need you some day, and that will be your trump card, and then you lay down the boundaries...and tell them right out...you will never be treated like that again, and mean it...

Now, that is what I'd do, however, that is me, and maybe this doesn't work for your situation...so, please feel free to take what works for you only...

and I agree with Luise, you husband should have never told you....especially when he said he wouldn't...that is a trust broken....however, it still doesn't merrit how they are treating you...give them time, a lot of time...and back away...see what happens and work from there....

Your son is probably very very embarrassed that your husband told you...and he should be...really, seriously, you don't run around on your spouse, period. and they have got some very serious issues to contend with...if you stay away from it, they can't blame you for anything more, and they're anger is definately misdirected....

That's my take?

Good Luck
Creme

Welcome farrelly80.,
 
I also have an unprofessional opinion.  I honestly don't think your present predicament has anything to do with your DH telling you about DS's affair.  I think that is just an excuse.  The simple fact is that your DS is in the doghouse with GF, may be there for a long time, and thus GF sets the rules.  Any changes in your relationship with DS and GS have to go through her. 

Furthermore, although your friends and family think/hope that DS may eventually realize GF is manipulative, my advice is don't hold your breath waiting for this to happen. 

My opinion is that all you can do is apologize to DS & GF and step back.  The apology may not cool her anger, but it may deflect it off your back.  You really don't deserve it. 

seasage

Maybe I'm misinterpreting something here.. but we do not know if the son requested that his father not say anything before or after his announcement of infidelity.  I could not tell by the op if she approached her son concerning his choices of having sex with others.  And this email that became such an issue, I took it that you were asking why the avoidance not if he was proud of himself for cheating on his wife.

I don't fault the father telling the mother about the son's affair.... after all it is her son as well and if they were good parents through the years they probably stood united throughout their son's life.  This would be a totally unfair situation to place his own father in... what if he had told his parents and then asked that they not tell his wife?  If he did not want anyone to know they maybe he would have kept it to himself, but to now turn mom into the family beating boy isn't the answer either.  I'm still back to saying that unless I misunderstood the email spoke about only the avoidance.

Hi Thanks for your interest, I have never spoke to my DS about his affair, just told him to sort it out and I would support him and his GF. Yes he  did ask his Dad not to tell me but that was unfair as my DH was upset for him and I could tell. Maybe on reflection he should not have but he has apologised to them both but GF wont accept it. She has just got nastier and nastier and yes her keeping our GS from us was probably going to happen anyway. It breaks my heart not to see him but it is making me ill thinking off it all the time. |I know that the only way forward is to let go and hope that DS will bring GS round to see us but I dont hold out much hope. I will try to be brave and stop crying, Im very lucky I have a close family round me who are all furious with them but are trying to keep out of it in case it makes it worse. Although non of them know about the affair so they are all a bit bewildered by whats happened.  One of the worst things is DS has not seen his little brother for over a year as GF doesnt like his fiancee.
Anyway thanks for letting me have a rant, its better than keep getting upset.x

P.S.  I have been thinking about your situation.  Suddenly it seems so close to mine!

First, cherish your DH.  He is totally honest to everyone in the family.  That's why he shared with you, and then told DS and GF that he had.  There is no blame, no shame, here.  My own DH is the same, and your story has helped me to realize that this is a wonderful man.

Next, I wonder if you think this is a good idea?  I wonder if a written apology - in the form of a simple card sent to your DS and GF - would be appropriate?  I know that I can be terribly old-fashioned in these things.  But email is often so casual and so easy to misunderstand.  I like the card that can be opened for a real apology.  My DH and I have done this for our DS's GF in the past.  (Card was accompanied by flowers.)  Now the fact is that GF never responded to us, but DS told us that it was appreciated.  And so I am pretty sure that you could repair your relationship with your DS by such a gesture, even if his GF forever holds you in contempt.  (Ours still does, even after 5 years.)

Best wishes to you,
seasage

P.P.S.  We repaired our relationship to the point that DS spent 3 days with us at Thankgivings - flew here across the country on a redeye to see us - even though his 'significant other' refused to come.  She still won't talk to us, won't acknowledge gifts or communications, refuses to allow us to come to their home when she is there, etc and so on.  But DS makes time for us when we are in the area, comes to lunch or dinner with us, clearly wants to be with his parents.  Hopefully you too will be able to repair your relationship with your DS, and hopefully that will include your GS.
.

Farrelly80, I'm sorry you're going through this. Using the GC to get back at the parents is really tacky. Welcome and best wishes.

I guess I disagree with some of my WWU buddies here - I don't think anyone should ever be asked to keep something from their spouse/partner. When I'm tempted to tell a friend something in confidence I remember that she/he quite possibly will pass it on to their mate. If that is too risky for me I keep the item to myself.

Also, I'm confused about the GF's anger towards you - what the heck did you do to her?? Did I miss something?

Your goal is to get back in good graces w/ DS so you can see your GC so apologies may be needed but I don't know for what...from my reading it sounds as if you were telling DS you didn't like HIS treatment of you. When DS showed your email to GF, SHE went ballistic. Whaaa???

Regarding a possible apology, Seasage seems to have a successful approach. At some point, when you feel it's safe to voice your opinion again, it should be made clear that you & DH will not be keeping secrets from one another and that DS & DIL should be honest w/each other as well.

If you kept your mouth shut? Nah. This has nothing to do with you at all! Don't worry about that. I am sorry you're in the middle of something you shouldn't be in though.

I tried to tell my mom something, and she stopped me, and told me that what I told her I could guarantee my dad would find out about. (They are divorced by the way--but still act like a together set of parents!). She said it wasn't fair for me to expect she wouldn't say anything. Maybe that is the case, here?

Regardless, when everyone your DD and his GF are angry at have disappeared, they'll start dealing with who they are really angry at: themselves.

Sorry about little GS, not only b/c you have been cut off but b/c he must be under a lot of stress in that household. Maybe when they see this and decide to work on their issues, they will come back. I hope so.

I could not imagine my dh intentionally keeping a secret such as this from me.  He and my son once thought they would hide a speeding ticket, they claimed that they didn't want to hear me rag on them about it.... Well I ragged about the ticket (hubby told son it was ok to exceed the limit on that road) and then I ragged even more about the secret.  Secrets can hurt.. Look at my father-in-law who was scammed out of 6,500.00 a couple of months ago because he felt important by attempting to keep what he thought was a secret.

But yes you have to wonder about the misplaced anger on this issue.  What, the couple who was unfaithful to each other are angry with someone who heard about it afterwards?  And because he cheated on her, she is going to withhold grandparent visitation with the grandchild? The part I'm still trying to comprehend is why did the gf not being employed force him to cheat on her?  As I said originally.. this couple have quite few issues that they need to work on.. doesn't sound to me like they are anywhere near capable of being honest with themselves. There is no purpose in you or your dh to join into their life of secrets, pain, and lies.

To me, the way to handle confidentiality, is when the person says...."Don't tell Mom this, but..." the response should be, "Then don't tell me....she is my partner. And by the way, don't ever tell me something and then after the fact tell me not to tell your mom. Got it?"

I seems to me that the dad in the instance was asked to keep it secret...said "OK" and then broke his word. Was that the case?

No one can play "he said/she said" if that procedure is followed. Variations...are "Let's get your mom in on this before we go any further.." etc. Sending love...

I don't know if my kids would think to approach either of us with a life altering secret to be kept from the other.  I would hope that most parents would never agree to these terms upfront but not being there it's anyones guess as to how this was approached.  It's possible that dad thought it was going to be something totally unimportant and casually agreed.  Either way, no child or adult child should attempt to push that wedge into his parents relationship.  Doesn't it make you wonder what would have happened if dh hadn't said anything.. do you think the final outcome would have changed.. I doubt it.

First, welcome Farrelly.  My and my DH so had this happen to us on a smaller level.  I am with those that said, children and others shouldn't expect a couple that communicates to keep major secrets.  I would have thought my kids and everyone would know that about me and DH because we are so intune to each other and talk about everything.

My YS is in the Army and I pay all his bills for him.  He supplies the money to his account, and I pay his bills as he doesn't always have internet access where he is at.  He asked me and I have never minded.  In the beginning, he was cutting it close every month.  All of a sudden, he had money and was spending it.  About the 4th month, he didn't leave enough in there for me to pay a bill.  I had him call me and we had a lonnnnnggg conversation about it.  I told him I would bail him out this ONE time, but next time, he would have to explain to Ford why he didn't make his car payment, because I wouldn't do it again.  So I deposited $50 to cover it and life went on. 

Two months later, my DH and I were standing on our deck grilling and he was as anxious as a cat.  I asked him about work and such, thinking he would eventually tell me what was up.  He is so laid back normally, that I knew something was wrong.  Finally he turned around and blurted out, "I did something and I know you are going to be mad, and I know he is going to be mad, but I can't stand not telling you...it's killing me!"  He admitted that my YS had called him and told him he knew he had just spent to much money and when I went to pay his bills in a couple of days, I was going to know.  So he asked my DH if he would please let him borrow $100, but please do not tell my Mom.  My DH said he was very torn because he knew he shouldn't, but he was also feeling very good that my YS accepted him enough to call and ask him (being the stepfather).  So he gave him the same speach I did about only doing it once, and agreed he wouldn't tell me.  Now, it was eating my DH alive and he finally couldn't take it any longer.

I wasn't mad at him.  I was angry at my YS for putting him in that position.  I could understand how badly my DH wanted to help him, but knew he shouldn't.  It wasn't fair of my YS to do that to DH. 

So, I agreed not to let YS know that I knew, and DH agreed he would never do that again.  He said, "Next time, I am telling him that he knows we talk about everything, and that I could not do that again.  That he would be happy to loan him the money, after discussing it with you."  It was very hard for me not to say something to my YS, but I didn't want him to feel that DH had broke his confidence.

Three months later, my YS finally fessed up on his own.  He had apparently been feeling bad about it every since he had done it.  He finally told me one day on the phone, what he had done, and said, "It was very wrong of me to do that.  But I don't want you to be mad at DH for not telling you.  It was my fault."  I explained that it was very unfair of him to put DH in that position and that I appreciated his honesty in telling me.  He even told me that DH told him he would only do it this one time and never again.  I kept my mouth shut and never told YS that DH had told me.  I didn't want him to feel like DH broke his word, but I also didn't want DH to feel I was mad at him for what he did.  He was so caught in the middle and I saw where he was coming from.

Just like my situation, it was very unfair of your DS to do that to him.  I agree with Laurie, they have some major issues to deal with and I also agree with everyone, this has nothing to do with you guys.  GF is hurt and taking it out on you and your DH because she is mad at him.  Misplaced anger is the hardest to deal with and swallow.  Step back and let them work out their problems.  The more you push at this point, the further away GF is going to go, because she is hurt and angry at DS.  Infidelity is a very painful thing to deal with.  Not excusing her keeping GC away from you, because that is wrong of her, but she doesn't know which way to turn right now.  Give it some time.

Is it possible, that she may be aware that you both know of what happened between her and DS? I know a few women going through the same thing and they avoid their DH's family, not due to anything personal, but b/c they are ashamed of what is going on and not sure what is going to be said or how everyone is going to behave.

Pooh, I think your story is an excellent example of "truth" coming out eventually; we don't have to anything or say anything, it just comes out, clears the air and life goes on from there. DS's guilt is likely what will prevent him from doing that ever again; that has probably been more effective than talking to him about it initially. Sometimes, sitting back and biding time is all you can do. It's still tough though.

Ladies
Thanks for all your advice, I really do appreciate it and you have no idea how much it helps just being able to talk to someone about what I am going through. There is an awful lot more that has happened that would take to long to explain. I realise that GF is hurting and I have tried to be supportive but hey you can only take so much rudeness and bad manners. My sons were brought up to be respectful and that is why I cant understand why my DS wont come round and talk it through. I realise that DH was going through hell not being able to talk to me and I will try to be closer to him but it has affected our relationship and I should really treasure him because he is a diamond. It is hell not seeing our GS and unbearable what he must be thinking (or what they are telling him) were are so close. But I will take your advice and give them space and time and hope in my heart that they will sort it out and we can get back to being a family again. Thanks again for all your advice and I hope all your problems will lessen in time xxxxxx

I certainly hope this works out for you farrelly.  And you were right about only taking so much.  Just because a person has issues or problems, doesn't give them the right to be mean.  I will give someone some leeway when I know they are having problems, but only for a while.  Sympathy/Empathy does not equal doormat.

If DH is a diamond, then forgive him if he feels bad about what happened.  It had to be hard on him to keep it from you. 

Farrelly,
As a DIL, I think it would help you to get a different perspective on this. Your DIL is not behaving as she should, but I really feel sorry for her. She is dealing with a VERY difficult situation. Her partner cheated on her and now from her perspective he's gone and blabbed it to his whole family (I know he only told your DH, but when we are in the middle of a grand humiliation, if one person knows, it seems as though EVERYONE knows--I am sure you have felt the same way in the past about something). As far as your DIL knows, your DH told you and you told the rest of the family (this is not true--but think about it from her perspective). I can't blame her for not wanting to be around your family, I am sure she is completely humiliated and worried about the stares and the gossip she might encounter at a big family gathering. Even though it was your son that did wrong (I don't care if she wouldn't get a job--he has no excuse to have an affair), often in these cases the wife gets the blame when the husband strays (because she got too fat, she wouldn't work, she nags too much--as if husbands are so perfect!). Don't ask me why the woman seems to get the blame when the man strays--but it happens all the time. Then, after she is humiliated by her partner, your DIL finds out that his mother is telling him that he is not taking proper care of his FOO's needs. Her response--WHA? She is probably at the end of her rope because her partner has obviously not taken care of his wife's needs, nor his child's. He needs to be in counseling with her, spending time repairing their relationship and doing some major making up. From her perspective, she has just had a major trauma and the reaction she perceives you as having is: "Hey, DS, why aren't you paying enough attention to me?" I know this isn't your intent, but I encourage you to look at it from her perspective, if you hope to repair things. My advice is to back off. And, if your son comes complaining to you about how bad his wife is and how she drove him to an affair because she wouldn't work--I really think you should give him a major bonk on the head and tell him that he is the one who displayed VERY bad character and he is the one who hurt his partner and his child. Your son has some big time work to do if he hopes to save his family.

It was such a mess before he cheated...that's not an excuse...but it's still true. Sending love...

Luise is right.  My first marriage ended with infidelity (which was devestating), but we had issues way before then.

Quote from: Pooh on January 13, 2011, 05:41:28 AM
Luise is right.  My first marriage ended with infidelity (which was devestating), but we had issues way before then.

Did the word castration ever come to mind, Pooh?

After 21 years of marriage.....nah.  I knew what he had and what she was getting....she was already short-changed!

Quote from: Pooh on January 13, 2011, 06:35:37 AM
After 21 years of marriage.....nah.  I knew what he had and what she was getting....she was already short-changed!

LOL..... ;D ;D

My ex, along with "the other woman" are part of our family circle. She and I have become friends. At one event, the three of us were sitting together (Val didn't go) and I jokingly said that what we had most in common was my ex. She looked my right in the eye and said, "Do you want him back?" When I got home I told Val about it and we had a good laugh. She was only half kidding and I was the one who won the prize.

Quote from: luise.volta on January 13, 2011, 07:44:46 AM
She looked my right in the eye and said, "Do you want him back?" When I got home I told Val about it and we had a good laugh. She was only half kidding and I was the one who won the prize.

My first marriage ended due to husband's infidelity.  I was devastated and cried for six months.  In the end, it was the best thing that ever happened to me.  Within 3 years, I had won a fabulous prize also!   

Greetings, to all....OK, with my family when I was young, I would remember telling my Dad somethings and tell him, "don't tell mom!!!!!" .....But my Dad did anyways...and with my Dad doing that I did learn respect and honesty....my parents never hid anything from one another when it came to us kids.  So I feel their was nothing wrong with your hubby telling you what DS did, for YOU are his parent also. I also congratulate DH for being honest with you.

Well, then DS, gets mad at Dad for telling you.....of course DS is going to be mad.....and now he can be mad at Dad instead of himself....."Misdirected Anger" at its best.....His affair was wrong no matter what especially being he has a GF and child.  For now he is going to be mad at everyone for you are his "scapegoat."

You mentioned about an email you sent~~however I may be lost here---for what did you say in the email?????

At this point...this is "their problem" which they must work out together..period...I would not touch it with a ten foot pole!!!!!!!     Perhaps, someday they will both realize that they are both the blame and not you and DH.......So, I would simply back away and let them do what they need to do.....when they are ready to talk they will...When they are ready if ever to forgive one another, they will...  Its just BEST to say out of this...

Sending much luck and Hugs your way...Faith :)

When I found out my husband was cheating, it threw me into a very dark place, a place I so do not want to go back to.  And to boot, later, found out he had been cheating on me since before we were married and all through the marriage....pretty darn sick.  At first I blamed myself, and so did he, but after I left him, I spent a long time in counseling and found out that I just kept choosing the wrong people to trust my heart with, which came from childhood abuse...I also did a lot of researching, as well...
and soul searching, cuz when I looked to myself that is when I got answers....finally one day, I stopped blaming him and asked myself why I was even attracted to someone so irresponsible...and got a whole lot of ansers...

Wise Woman! Sending love...

Breakthrough!!!!!!
I got a text message from GF asking if I wanted to pick up GS from school and keep him for a couple of hours. Boy I certainly did not question it just said yes and had a fantastic time. But when DH took him back she completly ignored him. But hey ho we can put up with rudenesss as long as we are gonna get some access to GS. I realise that in the future any access to GS will be on her terms but it is something we will take just to see him. I think I feel sorry for her now, she has been through hell with DS and the only weapon she has is GS. I will keep my distance but it still hurts that DS does not come to see us or communicate. Thankyou all for your advice will keep you posted. xxxxxxxx

Hi!!   So glad :) to read about the breakthrough!!!  Just hang in their.....DS will come around eventually when he can face everyone---I feel that right now he is just hideing in shame and in all do respect~he should.  Just let him wallow around its good for him and may make him humble as well.   Just keep your distance, they know the door is open and they will knock.....

Peace...Faith

I'm am very happy to hear that Farrelly! Just remember their issues are their issues, and no more.  Somewhere deep down, GF probably knows that too, but finding the right way to act can be hard. It might be a little step, but it is a step.  Plus, if it keeps up, she's liable to be more comfortable around you b/c repeated interaction does reduce tension. No worries there! I hope DS comes around eventually.  :)

Great news and glad you had a nice time!  I echo what the others said, hang in there.

Quote from: farrelly80 on January 13, 2011, 11:35:09 PM
Breakthrough!!!!!!
I got a text message from GF asking if I wanted to pick up GS from school and keep him for a couple of hours. Boy I certainly did not question it just said yes and had a fantastic time. But when DH took him back she completly ignored him. But hey ho we can put up with rudenesss as long as we are gonna get some access to GS. I realise that in the future any access to GS will be on her terms but it is something we will take just to see him. I think I feel sorry for her now, she has been through hell with DS and the only weapon she has is GS. I will keep my distance but it still hurts that DS does not come to see us or communicate. Thankyou all for your advice will keep you posted. xxxxxxxx

I understand your excitement, but a little taken back at the same time.  You state that you can put up with rudeness in order to see your grandchild.  I don't know how long a person can truly accept those terms.  If your gfil will only contact you when she needs a babysitter and then treat you rudely after you've completed your task, will this always be acceptable to you?  Your dh being treated poorly upon taking his time to take the child home and then being forced to accept this treatment will only continue to make him accept blame for a problem that had obviously been going on before the 'secret' was out.

I'm sure it would be a tough situation to be in.. of course seeing your grandchild is what you want most. I am only speaking as if I were the one in the situation when I say that I would feel that I was teaching/encouraging my son and his gf to continue to treat me badly by accepting rude and unkind behavior from the start. 

One other thing that I would consider is this.  If there is poor communication and trust, how will all parties react if even the slightest of boo boos were to happen while the grandchild is in your care?  To me, all of you owe it to the welfare of the child to come to terms if you are to continue picking the child up and accepting responsibility for his happiness and safety. The next time you are asked to care for the child, I would also be the one to take the child home and confront the problem.  Let the gfil understand that you are not passing any judgment on her for your own son's behavior but instead that you are there to stand by her and your grandchild.  I feel that this tug/pull, please help me/back off, behavior will make this child a weapon and this will have been accomplished by everyone's  actions, not just the moms.

What really angers me about this whole thing, is, the fact that she contacted you when she needed a baby sitter...and then the rudeness starts again....they know you want to see that grandchild, so, they will give you bits of morsals whenever they need a sitter...and grandparents are so desperate to see they're grandchildren, that well, what else can they do?

how unfair....

Laurie, how would you handle this if it were you?

Quote from: Laurie on January 14, 2011, 08:03:34 AM

Quote from: farrelly80 on January 13, 2011, 11:35:09 PM
One other thing that I would consider is this.  If there is poor communication and trust, how will all parties react if even the slightest of boo boos were to happen while the grandchild is in your care?  To me, all of you owe it to the welfare of the child to come to terms if you are to continue picking the child up and accepting responsibility for his happiness and safety. The next time you are asked to care for the child, I would also be the one to take the child home and confront the problem.  Let the gfil understand that you are not passing any judgment on her for your own son's behavior but instead that you are there to stand by her and your grandchild.  I feel that this tug/pull, please help me/back off, behavior will make this child a weapon and this will have been accomplished by everyone's  actions, not just the moms.

I hadn't considered this, but this is a really good point, and you just might owe it to yourself to do this. It doesn't mean that you won't see GS again if you do bring it up. Respect goes both ways, and I'm not sure putting that aside to spend time with GS would be worth that. You can't really support that family in their healing without obtaining mutual respect, I don't think.

I agree.

I would make sure that I was the one taking the child home and knowing me I wouldn't ask if this was a good time to talk I'd just start by saying.. hey gfdi, I'm so sorry for the events that led to this but I'm concerned about the hurt relationship between us all.  But above all, I would make sure that I did not in any way shape or form make her feel that she was responsible for the son's actions, past or present.  She is hurting, she is humiliated, I'm sure she is really struggling..going to her as another female and not as his mother, might be more helpful.

Progress! And insight to go along with it. Good for you! Sending love...

Ladies

Thanks again for your comments. But I know I will put up with anything at the moment just to see GS. I was so upset and blamed myself and I know its not maybe the best way forward but at the moment I cant see any further than just seeing the little one. I will have to bide my time and hope that my DS will eventually come round and talk but I dont think GF will come near. Maybe that is for the best at the moment. Its sad that you bring a boy up to be a good honest and respectful individual and he treats his parents like this. My YS says it is all the GF and  he would never allow his Gf to behave like that to us, but he is a grown man and has to make amends for his behaviour and if that means keeping away from his family so be it. Now where is that wine xxxxx

Pssshhh....go for the tequila!

Quote from: farrelly80 on January 14, 2011, 11:45:31 AM
Ladies

Thanks again for your comments. But I know I will put up with anything at the moment just to see GS. I was so upset and blamed myself and I know its not maybe the best way forward but at the moment I cant see any further than just seeing the little one. I will have to bide my time and hope that my DS will eventually come round and talk but I dont think GF will come near. Maybe that is for the best at the moment. Its sad that you bring a boy up to be a good honest and respectful individual and he treats his parents like this. My YS says it is all the GF and  he would never allow his Gf to behave like that to us, but he is a grown man and has to make amends for his behaviour and if that means keeping away from his family so be it. Now where is that wine xxxxx

At least you understand fully what you are doing and why... you are making your decision and sticking to it.. I sincerely hope it works for you.

You said that the gfil will not come near you.. but she did call and ask if you would consider picking her child up from school.. I think that could be a first step.. don't force her to make to many more first steps or she may stop trying.

Like you we all attempt to raise our kids to be honest, respectful, loving adults.  But keep in mind that your son is not just letting you and your husband down, he has let down his entire family.  Let this be his burden, not everyone else's. While it's easiest to put all the blame on the gfil, she is not the one who betrayed the relationships.   Wishing you luck

The girlfriend has a right to be mad if he had an affair.  But no right to be mad at you and your husband.   Sounds to me they are just lashing out at you because their life is a mess (made that way by themselves...not your fault)  Never a good start to get pregnant and have to move in together because of pregnancy.  If I read correctly that is what happened and so they had to get together?  If it were me I would probably email my son and tell him you and your husband love him and you are there for him but that maybe he and his girlfriend could benefit from couples counseling and that you hope they can work things out for the GS sake.  At least they let you see the GS.  I feel sorry for people who have to get a lawyer to get their rights as grandparents to see the grandkids.  :-\












 

Hi All
Well I have been coping very well, I havent texted called or been in touch and we are still having GS every week after school for a couple of hours which is great.Though I find it unnerving that they dont contact us about picking GS up just assume we will do it. DH always  takes GS home after but he does not go in the house, he says he doesnt want to put himself into the situation were Gf ignores him so he only drops him at the door. Im struggling today as its DS birthday tomorrow and its breaking my heart that I probably wont see him. Ive sent a card through GS but we always used to go out and celebrate as a family. How long must this go on, my DH says it may be forever, thats a long time.  You cannot believe how this website has helped me to cope, just reading all the terrible times everyone else is going through somehow makes me count my blessings.My YS is a great help, he keeps my chin up and keeps telling me mum it is not your fault and his GF is really great with me she includes me in everything and meets me for lunch when she can. I have a good social life and keep busy but DS is still my firstborn and its very hard not seeing him. I will keep my nerve and not contact him but it makes me wonder how can you be a happy person if you have no contact with your parents who have loved you dearly. I loved that one of you ladies said these young girls need to be zapped into the future and see how they would feel if their grown kids treated them like this. 
Anyway coping with lots of wine and a sneaky ciggy, started smoking again after 15 years, dont know why but it stops me crying).
Sending much love xxx

Hi, Farrelly80. I was wondering what was going on with you, so glad you posted. It's great that you still get to see your GS, but I'm sorry things aren't better with DS & his GF. Your YS sounds like a great guy, and his GF is wonderfully understanding. You sound as if you are making some progress. Take care!

Hi Ladies
i have been reading and keeping up with you all but again i need your wise words!!!
Update.  DS came round and said if I apologised to GF things would be okay so hey ho I am an adult and can eat humble pie so I sent a really nice apology via e-mail helped by my best friend and lots of cava. Nothing nada but hey my DS was back in contact. Today he came round with  GS and told us she was 12 weeks pregnant with our GC. So I took a mobile picture of the baby scan and told him we were thrilled. Sent a copy of baby scan to my best friend who sent a text to mum to be to congratulate her and what did I get.... at text which read  please delete our scan of the baby. Whattttt my DH was so insensed he rang to say hey what does that mean and GF told him never to ring again he was so mad he told her she was a butch. DS came round then cause he didnt know what the hell was going on now he is so upset I cant bear it. Last told pretend GF doesnt exist and I will come round to see you every week, Guys,  its a baby my new GC why does she behave like this with us, we love our DS and will help but I have no joy in my heart with this new baby and I feel so bad about that. Please I dont knowm what to think,  feel, to be honest DH is soo upset and that is upsetting me so much xx

 "Why does she behave like this with us?" I don't think we are ever going to know why others do what they do. Sometimes what they do works for us and sometimes it doesn't but we are never going to get to the why. Just my take but since I have stopped looking for and expecting logic in others, my life has been much smoother. Sending love...

We all have found, when someone doesn't want to like you or have anything to do with you, they will take anything you do and turn it into something bad.

Enjoy your visits with your DS and just concentrate on him right now.

Oreilly, I'm sorry your son's girlfriend is behaving as she is. It seems as if you're stepping into one pudde after the next. One thing I've learned from the stories here is that photos of any kind can cause big problems. Also, I agree with Luise and Pooh in that there is no sense to be made from things that make no sense, and that some people will use any excuse to further the agenda they had from day one. When our DSs are involved we want to do anything just to see them occasionally, so we try to sort it out so we won't do whatever it is that keeps them or our GC & DILs/FDILs/girlfriends away...but often we don't have control over it.

The good news is that your DS is contacting you! Now comes the tricky part...I suggest being very cool and calm, no drama, no big emotional scenes that will either drive him away or cause his girlfriend to ramp up her behavior. IOW, eggshell walking time until everyone is more comfortable. Best wishes.

Oreilly - I can only think GF is embarrased by the fact that you and your husband know about the affair.  She's been humiliated by him.  She needed time to get past this and was taking anger out on you because DS told you.  If my DH had an affair then went to his parents, not sure how I'd feel, but I'm sure it wouldn't be good.  Then, you find out she's pregnant and post a sonogram pic online.  Should never do that.  Then your best friend emailed her.  That's a no-no.  I don't know what the relationship is between your best friend and her, but I think she feels you cannot keep confidences.  So she doesn't trust you.  And she's mad...and she's hurt. 

Give her time to forgive and stay off the email.  Doesn't seem like its helping anyone here.  Also, did you tell anyone else in the family about the affair?  She may be hearing different things from different members of the family.  You need to apologize in person  once and for all, tell her you love her, love the kids.  Then let the chips fall where they may...
Hope this helps because I know you love your grandkids and because of that, you NEED to have some sort of civil relationship with the mother, no matter what.  She holds the cards.  Right or wrong.

Maria, I may be wrong but I don't think she posted it online.  I think she texted to her best friend and the friend in turn congratulated GF. 

You're right Pooh, sorry about that.  But my original point was, she never should have sent it to anyone. 

OReilly,

I don't think she should have sent a text, but if she requested (she did say please) for you to delete that photo, I'm guessing she really meant that you should probably not send it to other people without her permission. I don't agree with her method of delivery, but the message was sent just the same. She should have provided some explanation, to be fair.

Your DH called her, incensed as you say, so I'm also assuming that he wasn't very nice when he called. Depending on what was said to me on the phone when I picked up, I could easily find myself saying, "Don't call here anymore if this is how you're going to behave when you call." Then, he precedes to call her something awful? I see that as something between two people that got way out of control. 

Pardon me, but I don't see that she's the problem in this instance. She requested you remove that photo, your DH called her very angry and then after her response he calls her a name that many women I know would take offense too (I really wouldn't, I use that as a term of endearment, so I would've laughed, but I can't speak for everyone).

I think the problem isn't you either; I think in this instance DH has some apologies to make before any of this gets better once more.

I personally didn't let anyone take a mobile photo of  my u/s photos. That includes my MIL. I had a few miscarriages before, so even at 20 weeks, I wasn't taking chances. I showed her, but she could not have a copy. She was upset, but I had my reasons; was she upset? Of course. Oh well. I think now that DD is here, she's over it. 

I agree with you Holli, and that her method was terrible if that was her intention.  A simple call or text saying, "Would you please not send that to anyone else and just keep it for yourself?" would probably been better than just a hateful text saying delete it.

I will say I am having trouble understanding some of this.  I gave my Mom and MIL an ultrasound pic of my kids and they showed it to everyone.   And when I gave pics of my kids to them, they showed them off to everyone too.  I would never have expected them to ask me if they could.  And I know that the GF didn't give her this, but her DS allowed her to take the pic so he knew about it.  I guess I am struggling with this stuff because I never felt it was an invasion of privacy or stepping across a parenting line, I took it just to mean they were proud and happy.

And Holli, I understand with your miscarriage history the fear you had and why you wouldn't. 

Pooh,

I say this who has 200 mushy gushy photos of my DD plastered on FB for all the world to see...so I'm not one who is picky about photos in general.

Your youngest is 21, right? I think photos didn't travel nearly as fast then. You kept a copy on you and flashed it around.  When it's sent by text, it can go anywhere...when it's e-mailed, it can go anywhere...same thing on FB. Photos were expensive to copy and expensive to send. Now it's free  to copy and free to send...I think that might be the difference now. I have 150 people in my contact list, and only 5 of them I talk to regularly...if I sent a mass text out with a photo, it goes to all of them (basically strangers) and is then out of my control...which is why I choose not to do it.

I think the medium itself can be construed as crossing a line, but not the intent to show the photos. I see the danger, I just ignore it. The GF here might see the danger, but isn't ignoring it. I get that.

I see your point.  Although you don't know how fast my Mother can be to flash those pics at Church, Senior club, the neighbors, the mail man.... ;D

Yes...but does that person she shows them to have a copy that they can do what they want with? A photo file is just that.

I sent out a holiday card with my DD this year and she was had angel wings and nothing else on. I took the photos from behind (so you saw her baby butt!). I sent them to family only.

I got several phone calls telling me how inappropriate that was to just give people photos like that, b/c they can do something to manipulate them.

(((((sigh))))). It's a bit far-fetched, but due to my holiday card debacle, I say the paranoia is all the rage now. I understand it; it is possible.

It's very possible.  And although we like to take precautions, at some point...you have to live life.  In my line of work, it is easy to see that no matter what you do, if someone wants to get at you...or to you...it's easy.  Sad fact.

I agree with you Holli, and that her method was terrible if that was her intention.  A simple call or text saying, "Would you please not send that to anyone else and just keep it for yourself?" would probably been better than just a hateful text saying delete it.

Pooh - I wouldn't call what she said hateful, just lacking niceties.  Furthermore, I'm not sure I'd be so quick to send my kids around someone who just called me names.  Oreilly and DH have a lot of apologizing to do, and not on email.

Maybe not hateful in the first intent, but definately not a nice way to say it. So when her DH called and asked her to explain what it did mean....which would be the adult thing to do to clear up a misunderstanding....she told him not to ring again? 

I'm not condoning him calling her a name, but a little communication would have probably solved it.

Not being privy to the conversation it's hard to fully understand how it escalated to this point.  I agree fil has some apologizing to do.. but hey at least let's give him some credit.. he picked up the phone and actually made a phone call.. not something that many do any more.

I am a little confused also.  Probably it wasnt a big deal to send the sonogram to family and a friend....but I think that after the first incident, if I were the mil/fil, I would've not send the pic. I also think it was a No No... why? When I was reading the post....when I read...we sent it to family/friend, I was thinking...Oh No, big problem coming.    I just felt it.  Only my opinion.
You need to talk things over with gf and son.

But so sorry that you are going through all these.  Good that you have your ys to help you out.

Wishing you the best.

Love

Hi Ladies
Thanks for your insight. I asked my son if I could show the picture around and he agreed. My best friend is like a second mom to my DS so it was only natural she congratulated the mom to be but it was done privately and she was the only one I showed the picture to. After the nasty text and lets be plain here it was meant to be nasty, my DH rang and only said could he please speak to his DS and after her dreadful behaviour he lost it but was so upset because that is just not him. My DS did not know any of this until he came round to find out what the hell was going on. He was really upset as he thought things were starting to get better, but GF obviously does not want this. So again dont know what to do, DS says he will come round to see us but still waiting. Cant bear the thought of having a GC we will never see. Have tried everything to make it better with GF she just doesnt want to know. Also we know that we will have less contact with GS as that is her weapon of choice at the moment. I asked my DS why she hated us so much, but he couldnt answer???? I hope this makes sense and thanks again for letting me rant and your insightful comments xx

I'm glad you posted back orieilly.  I do hope you get to see your grandchildren.  I can see how you are hurting.  Its just....look, speaking as a DIL I think you and DH should sit down with GF and apologize.  NOT on email, but in person.  DH had no business calling her a nasty name and she had every right to say to someone remove the pic.  Its her baby, and her body.  Sometimes men can be dense about this stuff.  You need to ask the mom if you can show a sonogram pic.  You didn't consider her feelings.  Anyways....
As to why she doesn't like you...sometimes you may never know.  For instance...I do not like my MIL as she is an obsessisive compulsive neat freak who is extremely narcisissitic and her main goal in life is to brag about knowing people with a lot of money.  She talks about it over and over again.  Does this make her near and dear to my heart?  No.  Will I ever tell her about it?  No.  Because she's my husband's mother.  But quit thinking everything is GF's fault, because I can guarantee its not, and look to forgiveness, and communicate with her and APOLOGIZE to her.  If you are serious about seeing your grandkids, you have to do that, in person, and make amends with her.  She's been extremely hurt, and you and DH have the power to keep blaming her, feel you did nothing wrong and NEVER see your grandkids,  Or you can go to her, apologize, start new (or as new as you can), consider HER feelings in the future, and have a much happier life WITH your grandkids.  I did say this before, but she holds all the cards, NOT your son.

Believe me Maritobe I have apologised, she does not want to know. I have tried going round to the house but she flew into a rage because she asked me not to call. She is not a rational person and unfortunately you cannot deal with irrational people. My DS called her a physco to us and that he needs to sort out (and i quote) his crazy ****** up wierd life with her. So yes I would do anything to make things better but nothing works and I dont think it ever will. Whatever beef she has with us aint gonna go away nor is she gonna sit down and have a reasonable conversation with us. So I will pray that DS will do as he says and bring the GKs round. heres hoping xx

oreilly, I don't know if you just showed up, don't do that.  Tell DS that you and your husband would like to come over and sit with BOTH of them and apologize and talk to them both.  But he should be there too, as well as your husband.  Set up a time.  Then keep your cool no matter what. 
As far as your son saying that about his GF, that's terrible.  He made two kids with her.  If she was so psycho, he shouldn't have slept with her again (sorry to be so graphic.)  Maybe he's only saying that to you to make you feel better, but HE'S wrong.  I hope you can sort this out.  Good luck.

I'm sorry Oreilly, but I don't think that text was nasty at all. It's curt, it's straightforward and to the point, and that is all texts are really meant to be.

If your DH called her asking to speak to DS about this, I could also see why she was upset. She's the one that sent the text, the discussion should be had with her, not DS. If you said your DH was incensed when he called, I'm not sure her behavior was totally out of line on the phone. I would have gone into defense mode as well, particularly if I felt someone was trying to bypass me, when I was the one that had the issue with the picture in the first place.

This is why I'm not a fan of texts, it leaves too much room for misinterpretation.

Oreilly- I have to agree with Maria that your son has some growing up to do and he very well could be the cause of all this.  Calling the mother of his 2 kids such awful names to his mom and dad?  I hope next time he speaks ill of her, you tell him it's none of your business and if he has a problem, he needs to handle it with her.  I also hope he is not just hearing a blown out of proportion story and reacting to that instead of the basic, unemotional facts.  How do you know he's not going back to her and saying the same things about you to her just to appease her?  I have to question why he would use that kind of language about his own girlfriend to his parents.  There's a difference in telling your parents you aren't happy, or you need to do some soul searching about your relationship and just being downright ugly and insulting to the person you made the choice to live and procreate with.

So the fact remains that this is the son's child also.  He took the picture to his parents and gave them permission to share it with another person... I don't see where they really did anything wrong.  Basically what I'm hearing is that no matter what a man has to say about his children he is overridden by the mother or mother to be and that is 100% acceptable?  I'm removing the fact that there was a phone call later.. I'm speaking just about the fact that these parent/grandparents were not wrong in the sharing of the photo when they were granted permission. 

I'd like to quote Mariatobe:

QuoteI did say this before, but she holds all the cards, NOT your son.

Why does it always come down to this type of feeling and attitude?  DIL's wedding day.. mil wears beige and shuts up... wife is pregnant, and her SO has no valid opinions, feelings etc.  I'm beginning to see that some dil's prefer that their SO only have a backbone or more then surface feelings when it comes to a defensive stance with HIS parents... but when it comes to a positive time in his life then he is to sit quietly at her feet waiting for her ultimate decision and guidance.  Sounds a little controlling and full of double standards.

I don't think the wife/DIL/GF holds all the cards. But, since she is the one that obviously has the issue with the photo (DS didn't, since he gave them permission), it needs to be addressed with her, I think. If not her, then at least the both of them at the same time, since they are not on the same page as to what is to be done with photos (and that is something they need to figure out on their  own, before photos are sent around, if it going to be a big deal). 

There was obvious miscommunication going on all over the place, but I don't agree that Oreilly deserved this.  If she asked her DS if she could show the picture and he said yes, well then...she asked.  If after the friends text GF she had a problem with it, she should have talked to DS, and told him that she had a problem with it.  Then DS should have called Mom and said, "Hey, I'm sorry...I wasn't thinking.  I know I told you that you could, but could you please delete the scan and not send that to anyone else?"

He obviously made the mistake assuming GF didn't care, so why are we now saying Oreilly has to take the blame and apologize?  I realize out of respect that DS and GF are a pair now, but it is like we are telling Mothers that they can no longer ask anything or talk about anything with their Sons once they get married.  Sorry, but it doesn't work that way with me.  My MIL calls and asks DH stuff all the time.  If it affects me, he tells her he will get back with her after discussing it with me.  And she expects him to do that.  And he does.  End of story.  I did the same thing to my OS.  If we had a family event, I asked if they could make it and to let me know.  I fully expected him to check with her.

I guess I am missing something here.

(And I think that is separate from the name GF got called by Oreilly's DH.  That was wrong.)

The text wasn't accusing anyone of anything...so no, I don't think OReilly needs to make an apology for that, or anything her DH did. It was just saying to remove the photo; it wasn't nasty, rude, and didn't blame OReilly for anything. I got the same text from a good friend of mine b/c I posted a photo of her on FB. Done, gone, no issue.

I think that it only needs to be discussed with the GF (b/c it's her issue) or the both of them so only that no further miscommunication occurs (like, well, DS said this, but GF wants this...and the cycle continues). I would think that based on what DS said about GF, that this is more for self-protection than anything else. He's the witness to what is said and what happens, and it forces their communication to be on the same page as well.

DH is a different story.

This is what O'Reily said

QuoteAfter the nasty text and lets be plain here it was meant to be nasty, my DH rang and only said could he please speak to his DS and after her dreadful behaviour he lost it but was so upset because that is just not him.

Going by the OP here, I'm going to make the assumption that the text was nasty and obviously meant to provoke anger if that is the way the dh reacted.  If he then called his son to speak with him concerning the miscommunication and the gf intervened and added a little more fuel to the fire, then she probably got the reaction that she was looking for.  Now it all turns around to poor poor me, he called me a name.  In the perfect world he should not have called her the name that he felt was appropriate at the time.. but it is possible that she egged this on as well.  Now because she "holds all the cards" she can immediately jump into the role of helpless, misunderstood victim.. and it's a no win situation that probably happened in one hour or less.

If I had a daughter and SIL, and SIL told me that I could only talk to him about important things to him now...I would be pulling out my glock....

I should have clarified my earlier post- I think Maria was right with her comment about oreilly's son being in the wrong for going to his parents and speaking of his gf/baby mama/life partner in that regard.  There is a way to include your parents in your life and what's going on in your head, but he needs to get his stuff straight and as a parent, I hope they can tell him "don't talk about her that way to us- you need to be talking to her."  The other stuff Maria said I wasn't agreeing with.  I think the GF really freaked out but it seems that oreilly's DH escalated the situation to a level it would not have gotten to otherwise. 

I do agree, Laurie, it's wrong to say the DIL holds all the cards, not the baby's father.  That's messed up.  I agree with your whole post that that kind of attitude is wrong.  Pooh, I agree with you as well- GF doesn't need to be involved in every conversation and there's not a whole lot of reason to apologize besides to just say "sorry about the miscommunication- we would never have intentionally done something we knew you didn't want." 

I'm just saying- if he says that about this woman he continues to procreate with to his parents- what is he saying to this woman about his parents?  What if he is playing them against each other so he doesn't take the heat?  Maybe I'm forgetting this...but do we know that DS didn't tell GF a fib, like, 'I didn't tell her she could show people..' I hope not.

I think this whole thing is one miscommunication, misinterpretation after another and it just escalates from there.  It seems like that could be controlled by son making sure he's on the same page with GF about things that affect her.

I also agree with Holli that I think there is some emotional reaction to the text that could have not been there when it was sent.  I think oreilly is making more out of the text than what was there, but I also think GF left herself open to be misinterpreted by texting something she felt strongly about.

Gosh, i'm so agreeable today...what's in the water?

Quote from: Pooh on March 08, 2011, 11:40:32 AM
If I had a daughter and SIL, and SIL told me that I could only talk to him about important things to him now...I would be pulling out my glock....

Was that in reference to what I was trying to say?
Let me rephrase what I thought had transpired.... DH calls to speak with son... since the son gave him permission to show the picture, I think speaking to the son about the nasty text was the appropriate avenue. Tensions were already high from the nasty text received by gf, so I can see going back to the person that granted permission especially if he felt this gf was simply gunning for a showdown.

Quote from: oreilly on March 05, 2011, 03:00:46 PM
at text which read  please delete our scan of the baby.

Whattttt my DH was so insensed he rang to say hey what does that mean and GF told him never to ring again he was so mad he told her she was a butch. DS came round then cause he didnt know what the hell was going on now he is so upset I cant bear it.

Laurie,

I could be wrong, but I'm assuming this the OP quoted the text when she wrote this.

Nothing nasty about that, and I'm being as plain as possible.  :) That post is pretty straightforward.

I agree, it could very well have been to start a whole mess. In which case, the text should have either been, a.) ignored or b.) responded to with a simple "Sorry. Didn't mean to offend." That's how I deal with crazies; they're not worth my effort.  Dogs can't bark at parked cars.

As for holding all the cards, I don't think OW, ADil or myself can explain that one since we didn't say it.

I agree that the text was curt, but not insulting.  And yes, the DS does have some say over pictures of his baby, but the DIL should have absolute control of the pictures of her uterus.  Maybe it was taken with a trans-vaginal u/s and thus she was embarrassed about showing these pictures around.  It sounds awful early in the pregnancy to be having scans anyway, maybe she's still afraid of miscarriage?

I've also heard that some familes have a 2 Yes's / 1 No rule.  Where it takes 2 yes answers for the answer to be yes, and 1 no answer means the answer IS No.  So even if the DS said "yes", if the DIL said "no", then the answer is "no".

I have to say that I would not have been happy to get an e-mail out of the blue from someone who was a stranger to me, commenting on my pregnancy and on the (very early) u/s scan.  It would have upset me to think that this image was "out there".  Sure, to the MIL it was a picture sent to her good friend, who was like a second mother to DS, so it seemed innocuous.  But if this woman was a stranger to the DIL, I think she has a right to be upset.  And even then, I don't think her text was insulting in any way.

Also, can you imagine the DIL, thinking that the situation is taken care of, gets an angry, insulting, mean, call from her FIL, who really has NOTHING to do with this.  Yeah, that wouldn't go over well with me either.  I honestly would NOT let my children visit someone who called me a <name>.

In any case Oreilly, your DH definitely owes your DIL an apology. 

And really, it wouldn't hurt for you to apologize either.  Can you imagine rewinding to the minute you got the text.  What if you had said to yourself "Oh no, DIL didn't know that I had a picture of the scan and then Friend e-mailed her out of the blue." and then you called DIL and said "I'm sorry, I didn't know it would upset you.  DS said it was okay to send it.  Friend is a good friend of the family, and she won't pass it on or gossip about it, I've already asked her to delete it too.  I hope you aren't too upset with me, it was an honest mistake.  How are you feeling today?"

Quote from: Laurie on March 08, 2011, 11:46:28 AM

Quote from: Pooh on March 08, 2011, 11:40:32 AM
If I had a daughter and SIL, and SIL told me that I could only talk to him about important things to him now...I would be pulling out my glock....

Was that in reference to what I was trying to say?
Let me rephrase what I thought had transpired.... DH calls to speak with son... since the son gave him permission to show the picture, I think speaking to the son about the nasty text was the appropriate avenue. Tensions were already high from the nasty text received by gf, so I can see going back to the person that granted permission especially if he felt this gf was simply gunning for a showdown.

No, I said the same thing in my post.  That was just how I feel about the double standard.

Good post, scoop.

Holli.. I'm just going by what the OP said when she said that she felt the text was intended to be nasty.

Little less power struggle, and a little more consideration was all that was required to prevent this entire mess.  I was questioning the statement that the pregnant woman holds all the cards.  In all reality, the young couple let themselves down terribly to begin with.  There is something fishy with the he said/she said about sharing the scan/picture whatever it was to begin with. 

Scoop.. for all we know the dh could have been present when the son said sure share it... that does make him involved.  I agree.. all that apologizing could have gone on.. or the preggo gf could have also called and spoken to them directly so there was not any miscommunication... or she could have said, I'm sorry but your idiotic son did not have my permission to share that photo... I only gave it to him to carry around, not to share.

I'm still thinking that the pregnant girlfriend and the son are the ones who started, and escalated this problem.. but I can comfortably say that they will never see where THEY were at fault with their initial approach.. and it will be left once again for the O'Reily and her husband to accept 110% of the blame and grovel for their forgiveness.

Geez - I'm starting to think Laurie must work for the National Enquirer.  Taking one small quote out of a whole post and using it as gospel.  Truly sad.  Yes, I think the mother can make it extremely difficult on oreilly and her husband to see the grandkids.  Like it or not.  It is reality.  I didn't say it was right.  Son is not blameless.  To say "act like GF doesn't exist" basically negates any feelings she has on the matter.  Wrong.  They are HER kids as well.  Also, DH called her a name.  yes, they have a lot of apologizing to do. 

Quote from: overwhelmed123 on March 08, 2011, 11:43:41 AM
I should have clarified my earlier post- I think Maria was right with her comment about oreilly's son being in the wrong for going to his parents and speaking of his gf/baby mama/life partner in that regard.  There is a way to include your parents in your life and what's going on in your head, but he needs to get his stuff straight and as a parent, I hope they can tell him "don't talk about her that way to us- you need to be talking to her."  The other stuff Maria said I wasn't agreeing with.  I think the GF really freaked out but it seems that oreilly's DH escalated the situation to a level it would not have gotten to otherwise. 

I do agree, Laurie, it's wrong to say the DIL holds all the cards, not the baby's father.  That's messed up.  I agree with your whole post that that kind of attitude is wrong.  Pooh, I agree with you as well- GF doesn't need to be involved in every conversation and there's not a whole lot of reason to apologize besides to just say "sorry about the miscommunication- we would never have intentionally done something we knew you didn't want." 

I'm just saying- if he says that about this woman he continues to procreate with to his parents- what is he saying to this woman about his parents?  What if he is playing them against each other so he doesn't take the heat?  Maybe I'm forgetting this...but do we know that DS didn't tell GF a fib, like, 'I didn't tell her she could show people..' I hope not.

I think this whole thing is one miscommunication, misinterpretation after another and it just escalates from there.  It seems like that could be controlled by son making sure he's on the same page with GF about things that affect her.

I also agree with Holli that I think there is some emotional reaction to the text that could have not been there when it was sent.  I think oreilly is making more out of the text than what was there, but I also think GF left herself open to be misinterpreted by texting something she felt strongly about.

Gosh, i'm so agreeable today...what's in the water?

Good post OW.  You are right that we don't know what the DS told GF and you are right that if one of my son's called their DW or GF a bad name, I would be jumping down their throat over it.

Which is exactly why texts/e-mails are a really bad form of communication about serious issues. Hence, ignoring, an apology via text or a very polite phone call to initiate contact without letting our own feelings get the best of us. But a phone call at the same exact time I feel like going on a rampage isn't going to resolve a thing.

The behavior of both DS and GF are exactly the reason I'd be making sure I'd be chatting with the both of them about things like this at the same time...and I might even consider having a teletypist and notary present.  ;) I wouldn't be letting them bring me into their web of miscommunication.

Holli- I agree there's nothing inherently nasty about the text without putting your own emotions into it.

Laurie- no, the text shouldn't have been sent and I think the catalyst was that the text was sent- but I think everyone in this situation including oreilly and her DH could have handled it better.  Everyone could benefit from a simple apology.  They didn't start it, but they contributed to the escalation.  I wouldn't expect anyone to grovel, but a simple, "I am so sorry for the miscommunication and please know I would never have done that had I not been told by DS it was okay and known it would upset you," and a, "I'm sorry for calling you in the heat of the moment and calling you the name I did.  It was very disrespectful and I'm sorry."  Just because DS and GF started the catalyst doesn't mean everyone else is in the clear and have no fault in this situation.

I got lost here. Where is O'reilly?

I agree.. there isn't a person in this bunch that does not own some of the blame and responsibility... it was pretty simple in the beginning and can be simple in the end.. but I doubt that 4 people are going to take that route because I think someone has to be the victim here.

Are we completely in the hypothetical here? "My take/your take?" Are we getting anywhere? Do we need a victim? Have we said it all? Can we move on?

Actually Luise.. I thought we were working off of O'Reily's take of the situation and I thought the mil's and dil's were working quite well through the two different sides, but it's your call... but just to clarify ... I wasn't trying to make a victim out of anyone.. I was saying that this is why most upfront apologizes don't often work, someone typically has to feel more victimized in order to make their point. In turn someone has to accept more blame to right any wrong.

This really has nothing to do with the op, but it seems to me that it's inevitable that someone will toss the victim trump card into the mix to either sway opinion, or validate their feelings.  This seems to be how we are taught to function at every level of our existence. Our laws, our government it's all set up to with a slant to aid the victim.  It's no wonder why we at times spin circles and nothing more... I pulled this from someone else here on these boards because I think it's pretty true "The only thing she's a victim of is her own circular reasoning"  This is just me thinking through my keyboard.. nothing more.

Well, I got lost and can't seem to catch up. Let me me know when you have exhausted this one or I need to just put a lock on it. Discussion works here...debate, not so well. When we choose up sides, it can heat up unnecessarily.

M - Please do your best not to put anyone here on the Nation Enquirer staff. There are kinder and more mature ways to disagree.

I think Laurie summed it up nicely. I do felt we got somewhere with this post. We were in all different corners, and I think we moved more toward the middle, even if we don't agree with one another completely; and I think all of us see where things done differently by one person or another would have been of benefit.

If we are picking a victim, can it be me??  :)

Quote from: luise.volta on March 08, 2011, 01:32:33 PM
Well, I got lost and can't seem to catch up. Let me me know when you have exhausted this one or I need to just put a lock on it. Discussion works here...debate, not so well. When we choose up sides, it can heat up unnecessarily.

I only saw one person get their bottom scorched :)   I think debates are healthy as long as you stay on subject.. now the question is.. will O'Reily be able to make heads or tails out of this?

Oh, if she does...I hope she explains it to me!

What was the thread where someone (Pooh) was talking about sending thank you cards to an ex and a sympathy card to his new squeeze? I wrote a reply and it showed up on another thread.

Maybe I'd better take and long nap and get up tomorrow...

I thought this was a good discussion too.  I think it is healthy and educating to see both sides of an issue.  In doing so, I can sometimes change my mind because I didn't think of something someone else did.  I don't ever give my opinion here with expections of anyone changing theirs.  The only mind I can change is my own.

Well, you might radically help someone here to shift a perception and expand...but you will probably never know who or when. A lot of us are pretty open and willing to grow.

Hi all, well that was some debate!!!
To be honest I think the only loser in my situation is my dear GS who will be caught in the middle of this dreadful situation. I have tried every which way to sort it out but its now down to DS, I told him after the latest hoo haa that his priority is to his son and unborn child. My DH and I have really reached the end of our tethers with it and have made a vow to let them get on with it as we think rightly or wrongly that we can do no more. Its difficult to tell all the facts with a few words here, but be assured I and Dh have always treated Gf with the utmost respect and the outburst fron DH on the phone was very out of character but understandable considering the way he was spoken to. Where is manners and respect for a older man and who has only ever been supportive and loving. Anyway no more, I appreciate all your comments, thoughts, advice. but ultimately no-one can help until GF will talk to us. Up to date nothing from DS who promised to be in contact, I love and worry about him but its his life and his choices. I pray it will all end well.
Much love and thankyou  xx

LOL 

Quote from: Pooh"Disclaimer:  It is not my intention or my goal to get Laurie in trouble.  She does it so well on her own, she doesn't need my help."

Quote from: oreilly on March 08, 2011, 03:04:07 PM
Hi all, well that was some debate!!!
To be honest I think the only loser in my situation is my dear GS who will be caught in the middle of this dreadful situation. I have tried every which way to sort it out but its now down to DS, I told him after the latest hoo haa that his priority is to his son and unborn child. My DH and I have really reached the end of our tethers with it and have made a vow to let them get on with it as we think rightly or wrongly that we can do no more. Its difficult to tell all the facts with a few words here, but be assured I and Dh have always treated Gf with the utmost respect and the outburst fron DH on the phone was very out of character but understandable considering the way he was spoken to. Where is manners and respect for a older man and who has only ever been supportive and loving. Anyway no more, I appreciate all your comments, thoughts, advice. but ultimately no-one can help until GF will talk to us. Up to date nothing from DS who promised to be in contact, I love and worry about him but its his life and his choices. I pray it will all end well.
Much love and thankyou  xx

We all pray it ends well for you.

I kinda butchered your name earlier with my O'Reily spelling  sorry its the upcoming holiday

Louise - sorry about the Natl. Enq. comment.  But I feel when someone is condescending to every post I have it gets old.  Some people need to get their own ideas and not take one quote out of context.  That's just silly and wrong.

M - When ever anyone says I'm sorry "but"...I never read the rest.

There are many personalities here. You can always leave a thread if you feel uncomfortable. Keep that in mind. Finding someone condescending is a perception...name calling is an attack.

Quote from: Mariatobe on March 08, 2011, 03:44:08 AM
I'm glad you posted back orieilly.  I do hope you get to see your grandchildren.  I can see how you are hurting.  Its just....look, speaking as a DIL I think you and DH should sit down with GF and apologize.  NOT on email, but in person.  DH had no business calling her a nasty name and she had every right to say to someone remove the pic.  Its her baby, and her body.  Sometimes men can be dense about this stuff.  You need to ask the mom if you can show a sonogram pic.  You didn't consider her feelings.  Anyways....
As to why she doesn't like you...sometimes you may never know.  For instance...I do not like my MIL as she is an obsessisive compulsive neat freak who is extremely narcisissitic and her main goal in life is to brag about knowing people with a lot of money.  She talks about it over and over again.  Does this make her near and dear to my heart?  No.  Will I ever tell her about it?  No.  Because she's my husband's mother.  But quit thinking everything is GF's fault, because I can guarantee its not, and look to forgiveness, and communicate with her and APOLOGIZE to her.  If you are serious about seeing your grandkids, you have to do that, in person, and make amends with her.  She's been extremely hurt, and you and DH have the power to keep blaming her, feel you did nothing wrong and NEVER see your grandkids,  Or you can go to her, apologize, start new (or as new as you can), consider HER feelings in the future, and have a much happier life WITH your grandkids.  I did say this before, but she holds all the cards, NOT your son.

Mariatobe.. here is  your original post that I pulled that one sentence from.  I do not feel that I took that statement out of context as I felt that it summed up beautifully what your entire post referenced.  The views you expressed were worthy of discussion and I appreciated the other dil's doing so without the snide National Enquirer remark. But we all have our own way of communicating and for that reason no reply was required on my part.

I took the time to look back over your postings and with the exception of a time where I felt that an action could be looked upon as manipulation and you disagreed, I do not see where I  have been condescending or that there has been any conflict between us.

I never called anyone a name.  Just my perception when someone takes one quote out of context, that's wrong.  Whenever someone attacks someone for one quote taken out of context, that's wrong.  Can't deny it happened.  I give my honest advice.  If someone doesn't like it, then they need to form their own ideas, not take one of mine and rip it to shreds.  That's wrong, and low. 

FYI - I will be moving on to other posts and greener pastures now.  I will not be reading or responding to this post anymore.  He said she said doesn't go anywhere.  Time to move on...
Oreilly - I truly do hope you can make peace with your DIL.  For the sake of your grandchild, new baby on the way, and your family.  I gave you the best advice I could, as I am a DIL, and spoke from the heart.  Good luck.

M - You are beating a dead horse. It is my perception that referring to someone as condescending is name calling. What you haven't seemed to have figured out yet is that this my forum. If you take me on, there is no democratic process. Clean up your act and walk carefully if you want to stay.

oreilly - Good to get your feedback!

Oreilly, best of luck with this.  I think you and DH are very caring people that are caught up in the middle.  And kudos to you for trying so hard, and knowing when to back off and just wait.  And as far as your DH goes, nice people have a breaking point too.  I have taken and given until I am so angry and hurt at a situation, that an outburst is inevitable.  It doesn't make it right and I usually feel badly later, but it's human nature.  Hopefully there will come a time and place where it can be talked about. 

Sending huge hugs to you!

Just coming in this one ...a bit late I know ....

My take on this is .....
If DS GF was expecting , he would be overjoyed and wanted to share the news with his FOO.
no problem .
He takes them a scan of the unborn baby , everyone is delighted .
DM asks to show the scan to a dear family friend , he says ok .
Family friend sends a congratulatory message to GF .
She goes beserk !! .....Can someone tell me why ?
Surely she will know this person as she has contacted her .
Also when expecting a baby she should be also overjoyed and want to tell everyone ...no ??
why the secret ?
DM hasn't told the world , just one person .
I really don't see why a whole family should fall out because a baby is on the way .
Isn't this Good News ??
Time for a celebration ??
I lknow this subject is exhausted but thought I put my twopence worth in ..(.old saying.)

My fourth and only successful pregnancy, while perfect, was the most nerve racking experience of my life. I told DH. We were living with my dad at the time, along with my aunt and cousin. They weren't told until I was 8 weeks along and only b/c I caught my aunt smoking in the house.

We did not tell DH's parents until 10 weeks (until in person) We asked them not to tell anyone. MIL told me that I should be celebrating and not quiet about this; I tried and tried to tell her that DH and I were happy, but we wanted to keep the good news to myself. She told her entire family (about 47 people). I immediately began getting baby clothes, congratulations cards and everything else.

I then began spotting at 12 weeks. Fortunately, everything was fine this time...but I would have preferred MIL respected my wishes (even if my DH thought the world should know, which he didn't), and kept her mouth shut. I didn't want to tell complete strangers that something had happened. Yes, they are DH's family, but they are strangers to me and that's not something I'd be comfortable sharing with them...since they never knew about my other pregnancies.

The seconds literally inched by when I was pregnant; at any given time, I felt something could have gone wrong. I didn't even come out on FB (part of my identity) until 20 weeks and NO ultrasound photos or belly pics were posted. I wasn't taking chances. I get not wanting to share photos, no matter how close the people are with the family.

I can totally understand that Holli and your reasons, and they should have respected.  I think the difference is that you and your DH were on the same page and he wasn't telling his Mother it was ok. 

I totally get your situation, but I have sympathy for Oreilly, that asked her DS and got a yes, then felt beat down when she did it.  And regardless what any of us think about the text, she still felt beat down after feeling she had done the right thing by asking first.  If I felt I was taking the text wrong, then I would have done the same thing and called my DS and asked what was going on?  Not to slight DIL, but because he was the one I asked and got permission from.  My personality is to go back to the person I talked to, if there might be a problem.  If he lied to me and her, then that is their problem, not mine and nothing I can do about it.

Quote from: luise.volta on March 08, 2011, 03:44:08 PM
When ever anyone says I'm sorry "but"...I never read the rest.

Love this- that's exactly how I feel here and in real life.  Apologies shouldn't include "buts" if they are sincere.

I didn't say I didn't have sympathy for OReilly; LL was asking if it was a time to celebrate and I was only explaining that it might not be and that there might be good reasons for not sharing the news just yet.

I think even first time mothers should be respected if they want things kept secret. People are just awful at dealing with disappointing subjects like miscarriage, so I can see why people would want to avoid that from the getgo. Both parents need to be on the same page with that, for sure.

Isn't it funny that most everything we talk about on this forum, always rolls back around to respect or lack of it, or the perception of lack of it?  For all sides?

I think it is funny, but I do think it's the underlying theme here. And...if I recall correctly, I'm not sure the OP's DS or his GF have had a whole lot of respect for one another lately. I suppose this could splinter and affect everything else. Trickle down effect, I suppose?

Yes, trickle down.  Maybe I should have added "lack of taking responsibility" too.  Seems to be a blame game many times without dealing with the root cause.  If I can blame someone else, I don't have to look in the mirror.

If GF hadn't given her permission ,then thats a different call.
You are absolutely right Holli , I don't think in your circumstances no one should have been told until you were both comfortable with it .MIL should have been more aware of your situation and should have sat on the news .
I was told by the couple themselves .They gave me a gift wrapped parcel .Inside was the baby scan .
This was after 12 weeks .
I didn't need to tell anyone .It was posted on FB .!
Respect seems such an old fashioned word these days .We were taught to respect our elders .
Then maybe you have  to earn respect too .

That was sweet of them, LL. I didn't give anyone photos of my scan; I figured word wouldn't travel that way. I was wrong. Ha!

You don't know how hard it was keeping it off of FB for me. I was quilting, shopping and doing some other things I wanted to talk about (even if not about the baby), but since they were baby-related...I thought the better of it.

Oh, and my DH said the other day if we have anymore good news like that...MIL finds out on FB, with the rest of the world. ((((sigh)))).

Good Luck with that one Holli ...lol
I was told that was how she does things ....now that I'm a perfect MIL.I just smile and say that's nice .

Hi all,

update.....DS rang on his way to a late call out, he said lets move on with things. We are to have no contact with Gf but he will come round at the weekend with GS and spend some time with us. He wants things to get back to some normality and will try to come round to see us every week. Well I am happy!! at least Ive got my DS back talking and wanting to see us. He says Gf admitted  she over reacted to the message from my friend and to the phone call from DH. He has promised me he will bring GS round weekly to see us. I think its a positive step as we have had little contact with him over the last 2 years. Maybe he will see that we are not ogres (which he knew anyway) and see that we love him and always have. LIfe is so short in the grand scheme of things and we would still love to have a relationship with Gf but that is her issue and until she sorts that out we cannot do anything. I am so happy he has taken this stance even though its not ideal, but he knows we love him and will always be there for him. Its funny  I thought it was my beloved GS i missed so much but it was also my DS who I think now realises he misses us too. Maybe now I can give some help/insight/advice/support to the rest of you lovely ladies. You cannot know how much this site has helped me to vent/rant/cry and find hope and wise words. You are indeed wise women, xxxx

So she really is now set on having absolutely no communication with you all because of this baby scan misunderstanding?  My gosh.  I hope you have patience- you will need it.  I'm very happy your son will still come around with your grandson!  That's great news!

Since she has admitted to ds that she had over reacted and accepts some of the responsibility for the fall out.. it would be a great time to try and mend the bridge from your side as well.  Reaching out and asking for no hard feelings would be a gracious move.

I saw a movie just last week where the characters had very strong English accents.. and they were cussing each other out.. I only understood every 5th word... Oreilly's husband probably could have called me anything and I may  have missed it in the accent.  I  really love some of the terms used as well.. like when she made mention of gf saying  'don't ring me' ... All I know is it brings me back to my absolute favorite movie, To Sir With Love...  One day I hope to travel :)

Oreilly, I'm glad your DS and GS are going to be seeing you. It sounds as if you've made peace with letting the GF situation settle a bit, but perhaps in a short while you can try again. As Laurie said, things are moving in a positive direction. I think you should go slowly and carefully as if you are dealing with a shy, skittish colt - don't make any sudden moves or try to get too close too soon. Approach with a sugar cube in your open palm, IYKWIM.

Enjoy your visit!

Can you remember way back when you are just expecting ??
Your hormones are all over the place , and sometimes you hate everyone ?
Well perhaps just maybe , this is the case here .
Sugar cube sounds good to me Pen ....but then I do have a sweet tooth .... :P

Pen,

What does IYKWIM mean? I usually like to figure it out..but man, you've got me stumped. LOL.

Quote from: holliberri on March 10, 2011, 05:00:49 AM
Pen,

What does IYKWIM mean? I usually like to figure it out..but man, you've got me stumped. LOL.

I can't figure out the I... the rest is
i- if (?)
y - you
k - know
w - what
i - I
m - mean

LOL, I've never seen that one before. That make sense now. Thanks! I'll have to use it.