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I have learned the hard way that if you don't stand up for yourself just about everyone else will step all over you.  They will see you as a sucker, have no respect for you and treat you like a door mat that they can wipe their shoes on.  They do however respect strength, if they can't kick you around, they will eventually come to respect you, and want you to like them (this last part can take a decade or two).  I learned a long time ago that I wanted people to LIKE me, but they didn't always respect me.  It's better if you start with RESPECT and then move on to LIKE.

If they do come around eventually and treat you with courtesy and respect then I'm all for giving that back to them, but for a fairly short period of time in my marriage my ex tried to have me become "Mrs. Mouse".......it didn't work, I walked away from him with a 4 year old, no job, no money, no education, no family close by and after 26 years of clawing my way out of that pit with an incredible amount of hard work, determination, some wonderful friends who were loyal and supportive and a refusal to compromise my dignity and standards of integrity, I find myself here.  The cupcake ain't no competition compared to where I've been.

I defy anyone, including my son, to try to bring me back to "Mrs. Mouse".........ain't gonna happen.........hell will freeze over before Mrs. Mouse reappears, but perhaps in time, DIL will come to understand this and my son will go back to respecting me and treating me with the dignity I deserve.  Up until recently he couldn't do enough for me, and maybe the day will come when I will give him the opportunity to treat me well again.  He will have to EARN that opportunity.

Keys Girl's Rules
1. Never, ever, ever reward bad behavior from ANYONE including CHILDREN......adult or otherwise.
2. Always be able to stand on your own two feet, financially (I live very happily on Salvation Army store clothing and a budget that most people have for cat food)
3. Never forget #1 & #2

It's your life, your happiness, if you don't find the strength to make it happen, nobody else will, but they will kick your butt while you sit around looking for strength because they can and will have a buncha fun while they do it.  Give them another target.  Let them know that if they mess with you there will be consequences, big ones, and that includes "BA-BYE".........it's not a threat, it's a standard of behaviour that you won't accept because you deserve better.

Here's a little tip........fake it till you make it if you aren't feeling strong.......and don't tell a soul.  They will never know.

No, I don't need to tell her anything.......she knows.....my son would have told her last year after I read him the "riot act".  That's why she's so mad.....she knows and I suspect that underneath that hostility is a certain mix of envy and jealousy and anger because I won't give her my "goodhousekeeping seal of approval" before she marries my son.  My son isn't getting any medals from me either these days, so they are in it together, a united front of resentment and "so there".....well the peace and quiet department is open again at my house......"so there".  Writing to a magazine, etc. is bad behaviour on my part, I would rather post here and try to help people instead of looking for sympathy.  That stuff always comes back to bite you.

Every once in a while I feel sorry for her, she is so controlling, and tiresome because she's really looking for attention and approval, but that's not going to get me feeling sorry for her......she'll do with bad attention rather than good attention or no attention.

Putting me in the "dog house" is a nasty thing to do....but considering that the "dog house" might have a lock on the inside and I could stay inside as long as I want, they could find themselves in the "be careful what you wish for category".  My wish is to carry on with my life and enjoy it as much as possible.  I don't owe anyone anything, I owe myself the best possible years for however many I have left.

I have altered my plans for the wedding.  Instead of showing up with some big, ugly dude, I will show up with a much younger, handsome man.  Another friend of mine has the whole "duty wedding" and that's what she's doing.  I'll do that too.

It's so nice to have some folks "on my side"...... I have decided that my dues are paid and since I know know my DIL's "true colors", I won't underestimate her a bit.  She's dishonest, cunning, and I've seen her treat some of her own family members in a way that is shocking.  She would love to do the same for me and will only be happy if she can make me "suffer".  She's a piece of work, and I truly believe that my son would like to call off the wedding but doesn't know how.  She's such a controlling little brat, he would have to leave her at the altar, and move to Siberia under the witness protection program.  I'm thinking of painting the bottom of his shoes with the words "Help Me" for his wedding day.

My son threw a surprise party for her some time ago, she refused to go because she was too "tired".......when he told her there were people waiting at this party, she still refused to go.  He gave her a beautiful gift and she wouldn't open it up, and of course it was all "his fault".  Her parents have created a monster, her father once said to me "She's spoiled, but she'll learn"......Really?? Undo a lifetime of Princess training at the hands of you and your wife? Will OJ learn how to crochet? Will Mel Gibson take up needlepoint? I think not.  Daddy may expect the rest of the world to "learn" his Princess some humility, but I'm not doing his job.  He blew it and it's too late now.  She has an expression "Daddy's gonna do....." my "Son's gonna do"........as for me "FMIL's gonna do".......oops, the batteries won't work on the last one. 

I have decided that I will only allow them to keep in touch with me via email.  I will respond when I have the time......I'm very busy you know, and weeks will go by before I respond to her note.....I'm getting on with my life and spending it with people who don't look forward to pounding me into submission and email does have a way of piling up, kinda like laundry. Doncha know.

I have changed my will and left what little bit there might be to charity.  I have changed my contact data so when I die, my son and the cupcake will not be the first to rummage though my few precious possessions and ignore the terms of my will so that my little bits of jewelry will not go to the people I love but will probably be flushed down the toilet by the Princess.

I would never, ever, ever tell either one of them if I was sick or had any problems, she would take advantage of any type of weakness or illness to start "running the show"......last year her elderly grandmother was ill and she was very much against giving her grandmother any pain medication that she was asking for, despite the fact that she had been hospitalized for months........."she doesn't really need it" she said. 

"She who must be obeyed?" only by those who CHOOSE to.  I don't.......it's gonna be a tough fight because she'll try every trick in the book to get me under her thumb, including taking out her frustration on my son.  I warned him, and I suspect he is realizing that I was right, but it's always a pain when your Mother is right.

I have made the mistake earlier in my life and underestimated how far and wide and dirty the fight would get with other bullies.  I won't do it this time.   I don't expect to speak to either of them anytime soon.  If I get an invitation I expect I'll go to the wedding, but I also expect that will be the last time I will see either one of them for a long time.  Bullies are bullies, underneath it they are jealous, insecure but very threatened.  I'm not in the behavior modification department anymore, I'm going to enjoy my life and get on with it and make the best of it.  If they aren't it in, it's because they don't deserve to be in it.  Very sad, but I'm not going to wrestle with this little Grizzly Bear, she can prowl the forest for another target.  This is blackmail, emotional blackmail and emotional abuse and having read many of the posts of so many women on this forum as well giving my friends a shoulder to cry on, I will do everything I can to avoid spending any more time depressed and despairing over this DIL from hell.  That's what she would like anyway.

Perhaps the DIL and I will come to a truce, some years from now, I'm guessing it will be during the first few weeks after the birth of their child when they will both be totally sleep deprived, get a taste of what parenting is like and they are looking for some free baby sitting......well, Grandma will have to check her "busy" schedule..........and see if she can fit them in and reply to the email a little earlier than usual.

It's much easier to write about this on the printed page than it is to follow through, but it's like giving in to a 4 year old throwing a tantrum in the grocery store.  I taught my son when he was little that if he threw tantrums, he would be outside the store in 30-60 seconds.  He learned quick that tantrums got him nothing.

The one overriding law of human nature is: You always want what you can't have.  Sometimes you have to walk away, confident that you can survive no matter what the outcome and then sometimes some people realize they took you for granted.  It doesn't always happen but you won't know if you don't try.

Katharine Hepburn, Auntie Mame, maybe, perhaps a dash of Nancy Sinatra as well........"These boots are made for walking and that's just what I'll do"......

Stained Glass Heart, I don't have any grandchilren, but I can only imagine the pain you are going through.

Here's my suggestion, there is a book called "Always Change a Losing Game".........I would change the game that you have to play.

There must be someone in your area or among your circle of friends who has small children and who could use a helping hand.  While your are having trouble with your biological family, you can start a new one of your own, and lavish all the love, attention and devotion to some children who will appreciate you and look forward to seeing you at holidays and birthdays.

The best way to get out of a depression is to help someone else and there are lots of women and children out there who could use the help of a "step-grandmother" who would add to their lives and they would add to yours.

You could even get a group of your female friends who could make gifts for Christmas for those kids and others, there are so many people out there that need a helping hand and I think you'll find that you'll forget your troubles and enjoy helping those who will appreciate it.

Hang in there, the sun will shine through those stained glass pieces once again.

I wasn't sure what the reference to Auntie Mame and Bunny was all about but did find a clip on UTube.......ooohhh......that tone of voice was the same tone that the bride to be used to tell me that she had chosen the only day of the year that I would not like.......I'll have to try and get a copy of the movie, I hear that you can watch it again and again and still laugh.

The common denominator in all of these posts is pain, however, laughter (and an Auntie Mame attitude along with a tub of chocolate ice cream) is the best medicine in my opinion.  The old rule that "Revenge is dish best served cold" is one that is very wise, but oh so hard to stick to in the heat of pain and anger and battle.  I'm so grateful to Luise for setting up this forum.  Before I read her posts on the internet I was depressed and full of despair, but knowing that I'm not the only woman in the world whose adult son/daughter has turned out to be more of a disappointment after decades of time, energy, money and devotion has helped me a lot. 

Bravo, Luise, you're my hero.
 

Stained Glass Heart, I feel your pain. 

Here's my suggestion - don't have any contact with her - do not reply to emails, phone calls, nothing at all.  I would not contact the police, if they should come to you, they will have to have some evidence.  I have seen people like this talk about going to the police, but they are not credible and the police will recognize this in a heartbeat and start keeping an eye on THEM.

I would however get a new telephone number (a prepaid phone costs $20 a month and get a new email address - I would move all the contacts (whose who won't have anything to do with your son and his family) and isolate the previous phone number and email address so that they are the only people who might use them to try to reach you.  This way when the phone rings you know it isn't them, and when an email comes in, you won't see their names on the screen.  This shouldn't cost much money and you can point out to the police if they should ever arrive that you wished to protect your privacy from someone who wasn't trustworthy.  Document everything 6 ways to Sunday and have other people document it so you have witnesses in the case of "she said-she said".

As for the lies, I had to combat some vicious lies that my ex told my employer and everyone else when we divorced.  The lies were so horrible that some of the people wouldn't repeat them to me.  At the time I was terrified that others would judge me and believe him.  A very wise woman told me "What fools believe is no concern of mine", and over the years, I have held my head up high and walked through the thicket of lies that a number of fools have thrown around.  It can take some time, but the people who respect you are keeping their thoughts to themselves and won't let some nonsense bother them, and they will respect you even more for the dignity that you carry yourself in the face of a malicious set of circumstances.

As the old saying goes "A lie goes halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on it's pants".

The British say "Keep calm and carry on"........what about consider moving about 500 miles away, perhaps a new job in another city? with a raise thrown in for a bonus?  If you are a reporter, you can start writing a book......fiction of course, perhaps a screenplay that you could sell to Hollywood for a million $$.

Thank you for your feedback, everyone.

I don't know if I am "Auntie Mame" but once I got into my thirties, I never let anyone stop me from doing anything that I wanted to do.  I'm only 2 years away from 60, so I have even less patience now than I did for the spoiled brats of jellyfish parents who have conditioned their princess daughters to expect the world to carry on their bad behavior.  I told my son last year that this woman was a vat of behavior problems and that I would not tolerate her bad behavior because he was putting a ring on HER finger, not mine.  I also told him that if she was this much trouble now, when he did put a wedding ring on her finger she would be 10 times worse.  I also told him that if he told her about my warnings and she took out her anger on him that I would be fine with that, because after all, he chose her.

He wasn't too happy about that, and initially was the same polite, courteous son he had always been.  However soon after when Bridezilla found out much of what I told him, the verbal abuse department took off like a shot and some of the things that came out of my son's mouth on the telephone were so shocking that the only thing that I could do was fight to keep calm and maintain my composure.  I did.  There were numerous instances of obvious hostility however I did try on numerous occasions to be as conciliatory as possible including contributing my time and energy to get various things ready for the wedding.  It was a waste of time, about nine months, but I'm glad I did it. 

Of course I shouldn't be paying for the wedding, any more than I should be paying for the engagement ring when he called me to ask me for money because the Princess wasn't happy with the size of the ring he could afford to buy her.  I refused to give him a nickel.  Engagement rings are not in my budget.  If she didn't love him enough to marry him without a fancy ring, she doesn't love him enough.  I don't know that she loves him in the sense that many women our age would think of love, but one this is for sure........love doesn't hurt, financially, emotionally or any way else.  This is not love, this is control, or rather in my case, attempted control in an effort to fluff up her ego and enjoy my suffering as a double whammie, because after all she's the Princess.

Tough patootie, cutie........I have been on this earth for a lot longer, met a lot more people who are far nastier and I don't have a minute anymore for anyone who won't give me the basics of common courtesy.  There is an enduring and unshakable standard in our culture that Mothers should always be there for their children, and be self sacrificing in the process and be happy to do it.  Bunk.  I've paid my dues, in every way, worked from 5AM to midnight, 52 weeks a year to pay the bills on my own, make the meals, do the wash, groceries, drive him all over town so he can visit his friends and picked up the pieces when his father refused to pay child support and used to cancel out on his visits at the very last minute (after my son had waited 3 months to see him).  There is also a maxim that says you treat the parent you trust the worst, because you know that parent won't abandon you, and you treat the parent who hasn't treated you well with extraordinary efforts to please them which rarely work out.

I know that he wouldn't have called his father for money for the engagement ring, I know that she wouldn't have dictated to his father that huge expenses for the "coronation" type wedding were his.  I know my ex phones them on a constant basis and TELLS them when he is coming to visit and they had better be ready at the most inconvenient times.  I wouldn't do that.  They know that but don't appreciate it.

My son wanted a small ceremony with both sets of parents and the bride and groom on a beach........and John Belushi used to say ..."But Nooooo, she was insistent on the extravaganza that other people would pay for, (cost more than 3 years of my tiny pension) and that she would brag about.

My son has had more than adequate warning and the day may come when he comes to me and says "You were right"..........that day may or may not come, but in the meantime, as the old saying goes "If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy".  This Mama, ain't going to keep anybody happy except HERSELF, and will continue with the waiting game while making the most of every single day and making the most of my own life and carrying on my traditions of helping others.

I will be happy with or without the brat bride and submissive groom in my day-to-day life.

It's not that I don't love my son, but I don't love watching him grovel to please a spoiled, insecure, demanding materialistic princess as well as allowing her to try to dictate how I will keep in touch with them.  I don't love him enough to sabotage my own life and happiness.  I am responsible for mine and he is responsible for his. 

I'll respect his choices and he'll respect mine (even if they have to do it the "hard way").

The words of the poem in the movie "Invictus" are my motto.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul".

Oh, one more thing.

Next year on Mother's Day, my phone will be turned off, I'll go white water rafting or something, make a big day of it for myself and if my son calls, well, thank goodness for voice mail.

Thank you very much to everyone for their feedback.

I don't speak to them on the phone because they don't call me and when I call my son says "I'll call you back in 20 minutes and doesn't".......

It's curious to me that they are being oh so hostile BEFORE their wedding.  I never thought I would think this but attending the wedding is not high on my priority list, especially since the bride deliberately schedule the date to coincide with a big charity event that I work for every year......."oh, I thought it was around then......." was her subtly hostile reply when I found out the date.

At this point in time, I will deal with them via email........maybe once every 2 months, that's 6 times a year, and send emails to them for birthdays, Christmas and make a donation to a charity.  Last year when it was my birthday, no phone call, no email, no nothing.  On Mother's Days, no card, no flowers, but my son did make a phone call late in the day to wish me Happy Mother's Day.

Now that my son is into his 30's, I expect more.  His GF has a habit of calling him constantly if he is with me alone (like once every 3 years).  One year on Mother's Day, he came to my apartment which was across the city to wish me Mother's Day (no card, etc.) and she phone him 23 times in the 30 minutes he was with me.

I'm not going to worry about the whole "be nice to us or you won't see your grandchildren"........that game works both ways, "Be polite and courteous to me or their grandmother may be on the other side of the globe, helping out other people's children in a refugee camp".

I think these DILs live for the fight, so they can prove to the MILs that they are the "Boss"......I can't get an enduring portrait of her dressed as Hitler in a little mustache and a "Sieg Heil" salute out of my mind. 

She is who she is, and since her parents have spoiled her and catered to her every whim, she's expecting me to do the same.  I have done my best for 5 years, buying gifts, dinners, etc., etc. but no longer.  My son was not brought up that way (I brought him up on my own) and while there were many times when he was growing up that I was so proud of him that I thought my heart would burst out of my chest, this is definitely not one of them....I have to say that I've been overwhelmingly sad in the last 2 months, it's like a death in the family, and it is, the death of my son as the person who I thought he was and I now I have to deal with the reality that who he has become, under the thumb of "she who must be obeyed" and too passive to stand up to treat his mother with basic courtesy is not a pretty picture.  While there were many things about my ex-husband that I didn't like, he never would have tolerated me being bold and demanding with his mother, and I wouldn't have considered it let alone followed through on it, MY mother would have had a fit.

This future DIL is looking for the squabble, so she can get her jollies.  She won't get it from me.  The only thing she will get from me is distance, geographical and otherwise and the bare minimum of courtesy.  I'm not going to sit down with them and try to be honest.  There's no point, her constant plague of phone calls is indicative of someone with "stalker" type tendencies and being honest with those people is always a big mistake.  Knowledge is power and I won't give her any more knowledge other than the fact that I am still on the planet, which I will make sure she gets every 60 days.

I have decided that since I live some distance away from them, I won't make to effort to drive to see them, stay with them or have/buy meals for/with them.  They have never come to visit me, despite my many invitations.  I will deal with them via email alone, and likely will decide to attend the wedding......but will hire a big, ugly, burly motor cycle gang type actor dude as my escort.  I'm not looking forward to spending a minute with my ex-husband now that his long term relationship has ended, with the whole emotional "Oh don't they look lovely together"......so me and "Tiny" can arrive, stay as long as necessary for the ceremony, photos, speeches and then skeedadle on the back of his Harley.  He can count his earnings for the wedding gig and then I will go to a lovely hotel for a massage and spa treatment followed by a quiet evening in the company of a couple of wonderful friends.

It's very sad, disappointing and not the way I had expected that things would work out.  As my aunt said to me "I'm sorry to have to say this to you, but "That's life".

I have been in an ongoing subtle but nasty battle with my future daughter in law and son for almost a year.  After refusing to fund the engagement ring and an elaborate, extravagant wedding (I'm a pensioner living on a shoe string), the you know what hit the fan when she dictated that I was going to pay for a huge open bar for her large, extended family of 150 people.

She is a very controlling, aggressive individual and is now trying to prevent me from speaking to my son, emailing him and allowing all contact to them via her.  My son appears to be beaten into submission although he has yet to marry her.  I'm running out of patience for her "She who must be obeyed" attitude and despite her young age, she's used to pushing people around and them giving in to her every whim.  I am no longer prepared to try to do everything and anything to please her.  She has used the "cold shoulder" treatment on me for the last 2 months and in that time, I got used to them not being in my life.  While it was very difficult at first, as the weeks went by, I went on with my life and actually enjoyed the peace and quiet.

She sent a email asking me how come they hadn't heard from me? Since I had already sent 3 emails, one in which I asked for their new address so I could send a housewarming gift (which went unanswered), the blame shifting mechanism is in place.  I called my son around the same time and he said he would get back to me and never did.  He's done this before, I've heard her say something to him and he gets off the phone with a stupid excuse.

Here's the question.

I'm starting to believe that there is no point in keeping any semblance of a relationship with them unless I want a steady diet of humiliation and hostility.  I'm not prepared to eat that for anyone.  If my son has decided that she is the woman he loves and wants to marry, so be it.  I'm not marrying her.  I'm thinking of letting them know that our relationship is subject to one more try.  That I will give them a chance to rebuild our relationship with cooperation, respect and courtesy, but if that doesn't happen, I'm prepared to end it and wish them the very best of luck in their new life and get on with my life and enjoy the peace and quiet again.

Any ideas?  My family is really my son and my aunt who lives quite a long distance away, but I do have a family of friends who are wonderful.  I've been burying so many of my friends who are dying of cancer, that if it's my turn next I don't want my last years to be full of this little brat and her demands.

Dear Just A Mom, sometimes these DIL's are so easily threatened and that they want to replace us by taking our sons away from us and shut us out of their lives.  There is no point in resisting, it's a type of emotional warfare that you can't win.  You can however, go on with your life and move towards being as happy as possible. 

Don't be so quick to pick up any blame.  Whatever you did, you did with the best of intentions and that's that.  Some people are always happy to "blame-shift" away from themselves.  Yesterday is over your shoulder and you can only face tomorrow and do the best that you can with it.

Just keep your own boat afloat, and let them float theirs wherever they wish. 

I am struggling with the same type of situation although the wedding has yet to take place.  My son and future DIL won't speak to me or reply to emails.  They are looking for space and I'll give it to them, unfortunately you don't have much choice but to do the same. 

I would not take the "guidelines" in the letter sent to you too seriously and would put the letter in the bottom of a drawer and put something on top of it.
Ignore their attempts to try to dictate how you will relate to them.  These troublesome DILs always remind me of pain in the neck teenagers......always making some kind of a mess.

As the British said in 1939 "Keep calm and carry on".  Make yourself a cup of tea and enjoy the rest of your day.

K.G.