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"Welcome to WiseWomenUnite.com -- When adult children marry and leave home, life can sometimes get more complex instead of simpler.  Being a mother-in-law or daughter-in-law can be tough.  How do we extend love and support to our mothers-in-law, adult children, daughters-in-law, sons-in-law, and grandchildren without interfering?  What do we do when there are communication problems?  How can we ask for help when we need it without being a burden?  And how do our family members feel about these issues?  We invite you to join our free forum, read some posts... and when you're ready...share your challenges and wisdom."


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Topics - Ruth

1
Greetings everyone, I hope this is a good day for everyone here.  I don't come to the site as often as I used to but it will always still hold a special place in my life.  Maybe this is a good place and time for my rant, maybe not,  I don't know but I wonder if there are some of you who are as put out with this subject as I am.  I find it really, I mean really, hard to cope with these staccato forms of communication from my adult children and grandchildren.  I don't text, or use a cell phone, but I do email a lot and get messages left on my answering machine.  Almost across the board, there is no salutation or closure, just the blunt jist of the reason for the contact.  There is now and then the exception to this, when they are in a good mood maybe or just kicking back and want to talk, but almost all the time its just that jarring dozen words or so.  I don't understand this.  I can't imagine sending or leaving a message for anyone without taking a minute to say hello and how are you, be it the maytag repairman, the girl who checks out my groceries, or my closest friend, it would be unthinkable for me to leave a blunt unembellished message or request for something.  But my adult children have this modem of communication with me on a regular basis, even knowing the manner that I communicate and have always communicated with them, this is the way they send and leave messages for me.  My grandchildren do it also to some degree but not as badly. 

And also in closing, I recently read this quote in one of Luise's messages and I have thought about it for days:

Adult Children remember when we were there for them day and night...and rightly so because they wouldn't have survived otherwise. Their every move was something we accommodated to...setting ourselves aside. Unfortunately, that's not a template for a lifetime relationship and some of them resent that

sorry I'm sure I should have edited that in a different way and please feel free to rearrange it, but I thought this was one of the most profound things I've ever read on this forum as to the real reason, a valid explanation, of why...why many of us have adult children who just keep taking and taking and taking and seem to give so little back.  Thank you for giving me this food for thought.  It seems there are many adult children who don't see a cut off point between childhood and adulthood whereby they are no longer entitled to carte blanche demands on their parents life and resources. 
2
Its very hard for me to write about this, but I feel so bad about it all today I just need to get it out and over with.  Some of you know and remember, things had been moving along a little with my long estranged DS.  After I bailed him out of a bad financial jam this summer, he started writing me a line now and then, and finally just graduated from college.  I did a nice little grad party for him about two wks ago at his gm's, including a very nice graduation $ gift.  He even let me get a picture of us together.  Its the first one I guess I've had since he was a little kid.  I was so happy, it was almost painful for me at times. But  Not to last. 

Here's what happened.  I've looked around a little online at jobs in his field, and sent him a few links to things I thought might interest him.   One of the links was to a company that his df interviewed at about 30 yrs ago, and I remembered it because it was a bad experience.  Unfortunately I did something very stupid.  I made an offhand remark to DS that his df had foiled his interview there and 'I hoped he wouldn't get the same interviewer!'.  I don't know why I opened my mouth about it at all, it was just one of those things that came out without thinking.  DS sent me a scathing, sarcastic email back to stop talk trashing his father.  I nearly fell out on the floor.  I hadn't thought I was doing that at all, just talking about an incident that happened 30 years ago, but of course I should have kept my mouth shut.  But it got ugly after that.  I apologized with sincerity the best I could.  He followed that up with another brief but scathing email.  I became very angry.  I also reminded him that two weeks ago, just prior to his grad party, I had welcomed him to ask his DF to come.  Then all I could think about was how fed up I am with decades of trying to measure up to my DS's standards of being a 'good Mom', and how sick I am of apologizing and explaining myself, and on top of that sick too death of the fact that both DS and his DF have devastated my life.

I've lived with nothing but trash talking from my DS for as long as I can remember, he's trashed my religion, his sibling, his nephews, the military, every employer he's ever had, the university, the country I live in - you name it, trash talking is his middle name.  I should have Christened him 'FF' for "Fault Finder'.  After a couple of heated emails, I wrote him that okay,  I had made a mistake, and that people do make mistakes.  I told him to just go his own way and I wish him the best, that I'm tired and finished with trying to establish a relationship with people who don't want or need what I have to offer.  It felt pretty good at the time, but now some days have passed and I'm beginning the sting of it all.

I've obviously painted myself into a corner here.  I know I cannot make any more moves.  It wouldn't accomplish anything and would only serve to reinforce my DS's arrogance and insolence.   If this had happened with DD, she may not have liked it, but she would have just thought to herself, well that's just Mom, she'll get over it.  I think DS was reaching this time, he had to find some way to again prove to himself and to me how bad I am.  I am out of gas, and out of ideas.  I know I should not have made that remark.
3
I am very happy and proud of DD.  Today she went for her 'intake' for her new job.  She will be a sales rep for a prestigious company (name w/h of course) which manufactures a very interesting product that pertains to children, with a good territory, and I think its going to be an exciting and rewarding new career for her!  Many of you remember the bullet I dodged a while back, re. helping her open her own business.  (Thanks be to God.)  Here she will have a great medical plan, benefits, etc., and she is about doubling her salary, which will mean much of the financial burden will also be off ME.  There have been a few hiccups over the years with DD, but today I thought, how truly blessed and thankful I am.  This morning, knowing the time of her appointment for her intake, I had her in my thoughts and just about an hour later my phone rang, and it was her.  I stopped and thought, how special that I'm the first person she called.   I think I have been 'first person' for many years in her life.  It is so easy to focus on my failures, and the things I wanted (DS) and didn't get, but I don't think many mothers get the relationship that I got with my DD.  At the end of the day, she has always been on my side, and taken up for me when I was maligned by her brother, and even myself, for that matter.  She is always cheerful, upbeat, honest.  She has never ever made me feel ashamed of who I am or how I've lived my life.  I am proud of you, DD! 
4
I have been thinking about this, about how each of us is moving through this process of estrangement and coming to terms with it in different ways.  I have been thinking also about why  it seems to be taking me longer to find the means of moving on with my life, and coming to acceptance.  Well, it occurs to me that there is not just one blanket type of estrangement, but there is the estrangement of a younger child, age 18-to say 25 or so, who went through some kind of rebellion and broke with the parent(s) creating a painful schism, (and there are several of us here dealing with that), and then there is the second type of estrangement that has been of a protracted duration, and at this point the parent(s) is coming to terms with the fact that their child is not coming back (Luise, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this was your experience?) and the grievous process of saying goodbye has begun.  We know in our heart that our child isn't coming back.  I think this may account for the different 'speeds' some of us here are moving through our process.  Most younger a/c (especially if there ever was a relationship with the parent) do come back, and there is every reason to hope for eventually a reconciliation and maybe even a good restored relationship (according to Josh Coleman) therefore the grief process is different.  In my own case, I am having to come to terms with the fact that my DS is not coming back, he is 32 yrs old now, and he has made it very clear for a number of years, and even articulated to me two years ago that he did not want a relationship with me.  I don't think there is a more painful loss in life to accept, or work through.  Our children are the paramount relationships in our lives, and the loss of that child due to death is nearly unbearable, but when the loss is due to outright rejection it is a slow and tortuous death, and it just frankly takes about all you have to get through it.

I began to think about this last night, after a conflict came up between DS and DD, which revealed to me that nothing had changed with DS, in spite of my hopes after Easter, and DH came in and talked to me, kindly but firmly, and he said, 'Ruth, it is my gut feeling that this is never going to change, and what DS is, is what he will be from now on.  I am sorry.'  This hurt, but I had already made the decision that I was going to turn it over to the higher power, and I am willing to let go and allow it to be healed.  For me, I believe this is putting the key in the lock.  I don't have the power myself to turn the key, but I can make the decision to allow the door to be unlocked.

Luise, if this post isn't appropriate, please feel free to delete it.  It was just something I needed to say and if you read it, I will be happy even if you bleep it.
5
Grab Bag / Afraid...
May 22, 2012, 09:33:42 AM
Today, again, even my waking thoughts center around DS, and I start the day with the familiar knot in the pit of the stomach that has become so commonplace to me that I think I don't remember how it feels to live a single day in peace and contentment.  I've thought a lot about what Margaret said recently, about us 'running like scared field mice' and many of us make the comments about 'walking on eggshells' re. our a/c and g/c.  I want to deal with this issue, and get input from others who feel this has also taken a great toll on their lives.

Did our own parents/grandparents live with this burden of fear and intimidation?  Did they expect or require meaningful relationship with their offspring???  Did (or do, for those of us with living parents) they even regularly seek out or seem to need significant communication from us??   Every correspondence that I initiate to DS is prefaced with serious editing, and even serious misgivings (am I writing too often?  should I phone?  should I not phone?)  - 'does that sound confrontational?  is that too personal?  is it too long?... and so on'.  No other relationship in my life merits such extensive scrutiny or mental anguish.  And even after all this investment of thought and consideration, responses are not forthcoming or fruitful, except in the rare case.  I have worn my life out with analysis, research, attention to details, and futile attempts to build a relationship with DS.  It seems to be fueled by fear, unrealistic expectation, and my own unwillingness to accept this person as he is, and to accept his desire to not allow me to be any significant part of his life.  I seem to cease to exist without the love and/or approval of my children.  What a wretched state!  Has it really come to this?

I've read all our heartbreaking stories here for more than a year.  I really wonder what has brought us to this place, and to this perspective?  What has set us apart from generations before us, who just didn't seem to see parenting as a perpetual thing as we do in this generation, which I now fear is seeping over into grand-parenting.  I have been noticing this for some time now, and beginning to ask questions - why?  ...Skyping ..and scrapbooking ...and videos and ..momentos, and on and on, I'm not criticizing these things, but I'm just asking questions as to is it really hitting the target?  Is there really going to be a payoff?   I know that for those of us who are looking only at the big picture, the value of the contribution itself into the lives of the children, the payoff is there.  But I fear that for a lot of us (myself included, who has had the luxury of a very close relationship to g/c), we may be setting ourselves up for the same cycle that has played out with our a/c, maybe...  Are we going to again be disappointed when we aren't considered relevant any more, or as important as we wanted to be, or needed to be to our g/c, and is it going to be another house of cards?  And why has this taken such stellar importance in our lives as mothers and grandmothers?

Sorry this was long, please please don't anyone feel I'm being critical or judgmental, God forbid I think you all know me better, but its just my thoughts on something that is my own personal struggle and I would like to get input from others who may find it relevant.
thank you!
6
Rose, thinking of you and hoping these days will be long term memories of joy and beauty that will wrap a warm pink cocoon around your heart. 


7
This is just my little tidbit for all these Grandma's who are chomping at the bit for more grandparenting fun and who think they got a bad rap being too far away to be... close by!  It is also due to it being too rainy today to work in the garden! 

Farawaygrandma gets the cement handprint made at Bible School, lovingly packaged and posted ready to hang- nearbygrandma gets to drag 'em out of the house and truck them to Bible School - farawaygrandma gets pictures of all the fun we had at Easter dinner - nearbygrandma gets to cook Easter dinner - farawaysickgrandma gets the keepsake get well soon crayon greeting cards with big red kissy lips and smilie faces- nearbygrandma gets a background telephone shout out 'hey tell grandma to get over it soon' - farawaygrandma gets the stellar Christmas gift saved up for all year, neabygrandma gets the keepsake crayon greeting card, farawaygrandma gets the educational updates and adorable anecdotes on how well her grandchildren are doing in school and fb bragging rights, nearbygrandma gets to be the school bus for ten  plus years and has a car that shows it, farawaygrandma gets to book a flight and nice hotel for graduation, nearbygrandma gets to gas up the car for YET another trip to the school, farawaygrandma is rare, elusive, exciting, clever, crafty,  nearbygrandma is, well.... nearby, close in proximity, ...nearby, so on and so forth.
8
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Very good day!
April 09, 2012, 05:56:09 AM
Ladies I have to share this with you this morning as yesterday was such an amazing day for me!  DD and I drove over to my DM's home for Easter with the aunts, and DS was there also.  DS was kind and respectful to me.  I had decided that I would not attempt to hug him, as I've read this personality doesn't like touching.  He hugged me three times, of his own initiative, they were his little wooden hugs but he did hug me.  He also sat beside me at the dinner table, and made some little jokes throughout the day and a little conversation.  This was the first time I can remember, in his entire life, that the hostility toward me was not there.  I have no explanation for this, but it took me by surprise to say the least and I could only gaze at him, and think can this really be my son.  And there was no doubt in my mind, no druggie stuff going on.  He was very calm and relaxed.  He even agreed to let me take a picture of the three of us.  I just thought about it all night and can't stop being amazed about it all.
9
I never fail to be amazed at the similaries of working through major losses to riding the rapids!
It isn't a straight line coming to terms with deep wounds.  Yesterday was a real toughie for me.  I had made prior commitment to help my friend and neighbor (battling cancer herself) start the process of cleaning out her dm's home after placing her in skilled care.  I had hardly slept the prior night, back in the slough of despond.  But I did get up and pulled it together and was glad to feel useful.  However, I had to fly home at lunch for dogs.  As I was making their food the older dog was sick and trying to throw up at my feet.  I was throwing my salad together - got out the bottle of thick soy sauce dressing that I  make and always use, shook it and it flew out of my hand.  It covered me from head to toe - the countertops, cabinets, rug, just everything. even my shoes.  At the same time the phone was ringing and I could hear dd leaving a message obviously upset, something about child support fraud.  I reeked of vinegar, and dog still sick.  Had to get in the car and rush back to the cleaning project. 

Dinnertime, o/gs came in out of the blue, ate with us and hung out until past our bedtimes, hence I was forced to stay up and enjoy my family.  Last night I slept peacefully .  The sunshine was beautiful this morning, and the sky a true Carolina blue. 

Something snapped inside me before I turned out the light last night, and all the burden lifted right off in an instant and my perspective had changed, back to acceptance and confidence in leaving to the future to bring the changes in our lives that need to come.  I can't explain this, but that is the way it happened. 
10
I'm afraid its time for me to do something I so desperately don't want to do.  I must now come to terms with the facts as i see them, that I am confident my DS has SPD (Sczhoid Personality Disorder sorry sp?) But this diagnosis was made to me many years ago, however I was never strong enough to handle that reality.  Lately, I'm seeing it more and more clearly.  My DS has all the traits of that disorder, and its the only viable explanation of his lifelong coldness and detachment towards me, and his detachment from all relationships and emotions in general.  I am at a fork in the road again and need skills and support as to how to move on ahead with life as it is.  The problem is, it is excruciating for me to think of having to look for and join another forum.  But I know that I'm not going to progress much farther than I am unless I can talk with other mothers who have children with this disorder, and discuss how they have been able to deal with it constructively.  I can't get my own head around it, because it requires me to interact in the complete opposite of all that I perceive as building a relationship and healing a rift.  Just 'letting it go' isn't a good enough option for me.  Any help I can get here as far as which direction to go in would be much appreciated.  Any ideas?
11
Hi Ladies, I wrote this post in another thread, but it is continuing to get more complicated so I am reprinting it here (help Pen or Pooh, is this OK?) because I need some more feedback.  here is my original post about the issue:

Hello, WW.   I've missed you all so much!  I have been unable to be here for a while due to being worked too death, but I am in need of some wise input and didn't know how to start a topic.  ... I'm very troubled about an incident that happened with my g/c and I don't know if I have been wrong about the way I responded.

I am not clear any more as to what is the role of a grandparent.  When I grew up, grandparents were important.  Grandmother was respected and even revered, she did not buy our affection with lavish gifts and money.  My grandmothers were strong and dependable and kind and wise.  We went to their house, they weren't  expected to drive to ours.  When we visited, we entertained ourselves and left feeling like it was so great to go to Grandma's.  We knew if we ever back talked Grandma (which we never did) that we'd sure get it when we got home.  I loved my grandmothers and they were such a special part of my life.  I deeply respected them, and learned so many of my values from my grandmothers.  I wanted to be a wonderful Grandma, I have always thought that I was, and it has been the one thing in my life I have felt I did well.  I've worked very hard at it and given a lot.  But now I'm not sure at all.

The incident seems silly to write about.  It isn't an isolated incident.  Its actually happened a couple of other times, that I make special arrangements with the g/sons in advance to drive over and take them for an outing, and when I get to their house I wait and wait outside, and they never come out of the house.  This is what happened again.  I later found out they were still sleeping.  It was 10:00 a.m.  My g/s are 14 and 18, they aren't little kids.  I have always just given hugs and said not to worry, we'll do it again another time.  This time I told them that I was ashamed of them, and that they needed to learn good manners.  I told them that if my Grandmother and planned her day (which I did) to take me someplace special, that I would have been watching at the door for her!

No one is speaking to me now, DD doesn't take my calls and I'm sure she's mad about my saying this to the boys.  Maybe I've overstepped a boundary. Maybe I was wrong to say anything to the g/sons, I don't know.  I just don't have any history to go on to figure this out, as it would never have happened with my grandmothers growing up.  I  believe my issue is really more with DD for not teaching responsibility and just plain good manners to the boys.   I'm not sure if I should apologize to her for interfering with her authority.  Now I also don't even know if I should address it in the future with her (when she finally decides to talk to me again).

Reading over this, it sounds really stupid, still I'm going to post it because I'm just so distressed over it that I need some feedback and I need to get back on track.  Things just seem fundamentally wrong to me, that's all. 

UPDATE:  G/sons apologized me to on their own, very sincerely and sweetly.  We are fine now, but DD is continuing to heat up.  Two nights ago, she telephoned me, livid, screaming accusations at me because I had not picked up the boys at school that day.  I attempted to explain to her that I had not picked up the boys because the previous day I had made two attempts to phone her, and she didn't take my calls, and I had waited for a call from her (watching my answering machine) the entire day on the pick up day, finally concluding that as angry as she was at me, the last thing in the world she would want from me was a 'favor' in the form of picking up the boys.  I can assure all of you, I was confident that she did not want me to go to the school and get the boys, and if I had I was sure she would have been there.

DD said she didn't return my calls because she was too mad about the way I had talked to y/gs and she didn't want to get into a heated discussion with me.  She said I was very wrong to talk to y/gs that way, and he was very upset.  She proceeded to say I thought I was perfect, and of course never did anything wrong.  This was all said in the form of shouting and hissing.  I said, it is best we stop this conversation because it is not being productive, and I said goodbye and hung up.

Today an email from her, still very angry and curt.  She said she relied on me to pick up the boys on my day and did not regard it as a 'favor', the same as she expected her ex/dh on his day to pick up the boys,  and that I had let her down in not picking them up.  I did tell her that the g/sons were not my responsibility, I did not say this in a mean or vindictive way, I said that whatever I do for and with them, is done out of love, not out of responsibility, the same as my a/c.  They aren't my responsibility.  Dd was almost speechless with rage when I said this, and continued to lash out at me about how I had let her down and about how out of line I was for the way I 'treated' the g/sons. 

Ladies, this is the same dd that only a few short months ago I was going to 100% finance a business for her to buy.  I feel I have had one too many temper tantrums at this point.  I have just finished shutting down my retail store, and I have worked myself almost to the grave in doing this almost entirely by myself.  I can't possibly relate to you what the work load has been, and what a toll mentally and physically it has taken on me.  DD mentions this not at all.  It is all about her.

The odd thing is the g/sons couldn't have been more loving and sweet.  Yesterday I took them ice cream and they both came out and gave me big hugs.  I don't feel they even remember the incident, and they treat me the same as always.  I think its more of DD drama, and lashing out at me.  Honestly, I can't imagine a 35 year old talking to her dm this way, it is so inconceivable to think of my EVER addressing my mother in this tone of voice, for any infraction or any insult I believed she had committed against me.  I am disgusted by this behavior, and I frankly don't know where to go from here. 
12
Hello, WW.   I've missed you all so much!  I have been unable to be here for a while due to being worked too death, but I am in need of some wise input and didn't know how to start a topic.  When I found this thread it seemed like my answer, even though its a problem that's way past maternity wards, etc., anyway  I do hope you will give me opinions because I'm very troubled about an incident that happened with my g/c and I don't know if I have been wrong about the way I responded.

I am not clear any more as to what is the role of a grandparent.  When I grew up, grandparents were important.  Grandmother was respected and even revered, she did not buy our affection with lavish gifts and money.  My grandmothers were strong and dependable and kind and wise.  We went to their house, they weren't  expected to drive to ours.  When we visited, we entertained ourselves and left feeling like it was so great to go to Grandma's.  We knew if we ever back talked Grandma (which we never did) that we'd sure get it when we got home.  I loved my grandmothers and they were such a special part of my life.  I deeply respected them, and learned so many of my values from my grandmothers.  I wanted to be a wonderful Grandma, I have always thought that I was, and it has been the one thing in my life I have felt I did well.  I've worked very hard at it and given a lot.  But now I'm not sure at all. 

The incident seems silly to write about.  It isn't an isolated incident.  Its actually happened a couple of other times, that I make special arrangements with the g/sons in advance to drive over and take them for an outing, and when I get to their house I wait and wait outside, and they never come out of the house.  This is what happened again.  I later found out they were still sleeping.  It was 10:00 a.m.  My g/s are 14 and 18, they aren't little kids.  I have always just given hugs and said not to worry, we'll do it again another time.  This time I told them that I was ashamed of them, and that they needed to learn good manners.  I told them that if my Grandmother and planned her day (which I did) to take me someplace special, that I would have been watching at the door for her!

No one is speaking to me now, DD doesn't take my calls and I'm sure she's mad about my saying this to the boys.  Maybe I've overstepped a boundary. Maybe I was wrong to say anything to the g/sons, I don't know.  I just don't have any history to go on to figure this out, as it would never have happened with my grandmothers growing up.  I  believe my issue is really more with DD for not teaching responsibility and just plain good manners to the boys.   I'm not sure if I should apologize to her for interfering with her authority.  Now I also don't even know if I should address it in the future with her (when she finally decides to talk to me again). 

Reading over this, it sounds really stupid, still I'm going to post it because I'm just so distressed over it that I need some feedback and I need to get back on track.  Things just seem fundamentally wrong to me, that's all. 
13
I have a concern I've never addressed here before, but I would like advice.  Many years ago I was working as a volunteer at a crisis center, and through a complex chain of events a newborn infant was abandoned to me.  This went through the court system, and what I thought was to have been 30 days of care for this infant turned into two years.  She was finally adopted, and I have not seen or heard from her again.  I deeply grieved that loss for a year, as she was just like myown child, called me Mommy, etc.  I tried to adopt but my husband at that time was unwilling, and there was no recourse except to release her.  She would now be about 21, and I have waited and hoped all these years I'd hear from her, that she would want to meet the person who taught her and loved her through the first years of her life.  She was a cocaine addicted baby, and it was very challenging.  This was one of the few things I have ever accomplished in my life that I felt good about.

Well recently I began to look for her on facebook.  I found her adoptive mother's name and sent an email that I would like to know if baby were interested in meeting or writing to me now.  I received no reply.  I do not know whether or not to take any further steps.  I don't know if she ever even told baby that I exist.  So I am conflicted and really don't know what would be in baby's best interest, to keep myself non existent or try more contact.  She may view that I was only a caretaker, and have no interest.  Your advice would be appreciated ladies.
14
I've never read this issue before on a post and its mostly past tense with me but I'm still at times perplexed about it.  I very much loved my SIL.  He was married to DD for 15 years, and he was better to me than a son.  Divorce was DD's choice, and I understood and supported her, this was a very long process and it has been more than a year ago, but i grieved very deeply losing my SIL.  He was (is) a wonderful father, he is a gentle and sweet man.  He was seriously injured on two separate occasions, once job related and the other hit by drunk driver.  He continued (and still does) to work very hard long hours while in a lot of pain.  I always admired his gentle spirit and his sweet smile, but most of all that he loved my g/c so much and was a good daddy.  It broke his heart to leave his children and he never misses an opportunity to be with them.  The issue is, I've had to walk on eggshells balancing my loyalty to dd with my concern for SIL.  At first, DD was furious with me if she found out DH and I had spent any time with SIL.  Disloyalty.  So I made myself push him away, when he needed just someone to talk to and a little support now and then, he had none with foo.  This hurt me, he had already been shoved under the bus, and I had to push him away also to keep family peace.  DH and I still sporadically see SIL, and I always hug him and tell him how much I love him.  This is a part of divorce that is somewhat unnoticed.  Grieving your lost SIL or DIL hurts like a death.  I still don't know what was the right thing to have done under the circumstances.
15
I'm writing this ridiculous post only for my own benefit.  Sometimes I just have to dump this out, or it keeps going round and round inside my head until I implode.  I'm so mad at myself!  I had made a lot of progress this year, no longer did the thoughts of my ds hating me take the color out of every day, but this week I am just unable to pull out of the sadness.  It really began when I read and replied to the recent post from BREAKTHECYCLE.  I knew that it was going to make my emotions hard to manage for a while, but I expected to work through that as I have before.  But that was like being hit with a truck for me.  Pen if you need to delete this out or move my post here please do so, I don't know if I'm allowed to say that but I need to get some help please.

Today is my birthday, (please, please this isn't about soliciting cute notes or anything, I'm not self pitying it, I'm not over the moon about birthdays )  and I open my email every year, telling myself how silly to allow myself to think for one second I'll get a little message.  Still, I did it again, and of course nothing. 

My ds visits his gm (my dm) quite regularly as he lives nearby, well that has nothing to do with it but nevertheless he began visiting her regularly about a year ago.  I admit to you, sometimes this causes lots of emotions in me.  My dm talks to me just nonchalantly that X came by today and he had a cold, or x came by and he's going up to the mountains this w/e, this kind of conversation.  My dm knows all the history of this pain I have regarding my ds.  Admittedly, my dm has never been a perceptive person, she just goes with the flow and isn't one to have deep thoughts or probe into things.  Sometimes I still think, 'what is the matter with you??? can't you see this is painful for me??'  And I want to ask questions about what he said, but that feels inappropriate, as she is entitled to her own relationship with him.  I know all this, its just the emotions and then I'm angry that I'm acting like this.  But deep down inside I feel hurt that she gets to be the mother and I'm trash, and then I know in my own heart that I tore up my parenting card, who am I to gripe?

I should be thankful for all I have, and I am.  My dd will bring me something cute later in a bag and laugh up a storm about something she heard or saw today.  My g/s will send me a funny note on email or f/b and hug me when I see them.  I am a blessed woman, and even dh may bring in the obligatory card with a dancing dog or something, but being never satisfied, I want my ds, I just want this hate to end.

Well, after 8 days of 'flu', went to er yesterday and I have pneumonia, but big antibiotics already beginning to help!  I miss you Luise, we are a ship without a sail....come back soon.
16
Grab Bag / I miss Luise
September 27, 2011, 07:41:00 AM
I keep noticing that the past few days our matriarch isn't posting.   I hope you are well Luise.  I miss your posts tremendously.   It almost feels like we're orphans here without your posts.  Come back very soon.
17
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / New Business with DD
September 21, 2011, 08:40:19 AM
Don't really know why I'm posting this, but I've just come to rely on all of you, as sisters of sorts.  A few weeks ago I posted that my dd (divorced mother of 2 teens)  was desiring to buy a small business.  All her efforts to find financing for the business failed, and it left me to be the chief financier if it was going to happen.  When dd related this to me, she expressed that if I chose not to finance, there would never be any hurt or hard feelings on her part.  She made it clear she had no expectations for me to lend her the money.  I felt not doing this would be a loss of a really great opportunity for her.  Not unexpectedly, much warning was issued to me from many of my comrades with war wounds!  Anyway, after many weeks of negotiating and bumps in the road, they have a closing date set and it looks like its going forward.  We have papers drawn up with attorney, and agreed on terms for repayment schedule.  I have a contract to sign, but I do not ever intend to 'sue' should she default on the debt.  I have already come to terms with this. 

I've lost sleep over this, as DH and I are not wealthy people and try our best to put back for retirement.  This expense is almost entirely depleting my pathetic little nest egg that  has been my security blanket for a number of years.   However, I have made the decision to go against my own grain as a hoarder and perform an act of love & generosity on dd behalf, and give her my vote of confidence that she will to repay the debt.   DD has a good financial track record and a triple A credit rating, that isn't my worry. 

I have to admit, if DS found out about this, it could open a can of worms that would reinforce his sporadic accusations of favoritism and he would stew behind my back.  I probably wouldn't get it over to him that I would not have considered this action on her part at all aside from the fact that 1) its a business in my own field and I personally know the business, its history and its potential, 2) its a business dd knows well and has lots of experience in, 4) it will help me move into retirement by retaining some interest in the business and get out from under the hard work load I have now, and 4) most importantly its to give my grandsons a decent lifestyle and future.   It isn't like I'm offering to finance a townhouse or a luxury car.  I'm afraid my ds may see it that way.

I was brought up very poor and we often didn't have enough to eat, wear, etc.   I started my first business from nothing, I had to work very hard to make ends meet, and was determined that my children would never have to live their life ashamed of where they lived, or how they looked, etc.  To people that this was never an issue, its hard to relate to the horror of the bus stopping in front of a shack and being made fun of when you got off, and being made fun of your clothes, etc.   That's off the subject, ...no charge!    But maybe this lends a little more insight as to who I am and the mistakes I made with my children.  I've never 'lent' them any money before.  I always felt this was a mistake, and my first reaction was a definite 'NO'.  When I talked it over with DH, he said he didn't think it was necessarily a bad idea, that he had been loaned money by his parents to buy property and it turned out excellently, as he repaid it all punctually.  He is the step, but he encouraged me to go forward and help her.

Thanks for this forum.   I was so fragile when I came here, I could have been wounded very easily with even the slightest implication that I was a 'bad mom', but thankfully over time I've come to value all the personalities and modes of expression of opinions.  Without that mixture, I don't think we can expect to grow over the long haul. 

Is it wrong to make this loan to one of your children, without discussing with the other? 
18
Could I get some input about a very old and painful subject?  I've already written at length about DS's rejection and hatefulness toward me.  Even though it's still terribly painful, I've been able to come to terms without obsessing all the time about it, or forfeiting any shred of self respect I have left in my misguided efforts to fix it.  Thanks to all the help I've received here, it has changed my life.  But there's still one baffling roadblock that stands between me and my peace of mind and I'm trying to live an honest life.  I want help to make a good decision.

To be as brief as possible, DS's father and I divorced when he was 12 and DD was 15.  Their father was unstable and had severe fits of rage, I couldn't stay with him.  DS has always been very distant to me, belligerant, and difficult to raise.  He has a high intellect, unlike his father, and never betrays any evidence of rage, its a cold and more insidious kind of anger.  He never bonded with me even though I deeply loved him.

After about a year, DS went to his father's custody at both their insistence while DD remained with me, and we both agreed that rather than pass child support back and forth, each of us would be financially responsible for one child.  This worked ok with us.  DS battled out summers with me, and went back and forth a few times.  They were horrible years. 

I've overheard him making sarcastic remarks at times, that he feels he didn't get his fair share as his sister got more.  I think I only know the tip of the iceberg, I think he seethes with resentment and uses that along with whatever else he's chosen to remember and focus on, to keep me a villain in his eyes. He may be justified in his resentment, however, I don't know, as it was twenty years ago, and I was messed up with depression and turmoil in my own life.  I can't remember.  I know I didn't attend to his needs as well as I could have, and should have.   DD got much more of the pie, but her needs were greater also....  It comes back to haunt me over and over!

Is there any way to make amends for this now?  I've often thought if I should make some sort of restitution.  Not that I think this would alter his opinion of me, but it might knock one leg out from under the stool.   He might also laugh in my face.  I have no clue where to go with this.  I want to do the right thing and get this monkey off my back!  Like a splinter, this keeps erupting and I get back into the cycle.
19
Grandchildren / Overnight stays with Grandchildren?
August 22, 2011, 03:16:13 PM
 I'm lately feeling a lot of pressure from my DD regarding my two GS staying over night with us on the weekend.   My DD is recently divorced.   Father keeps GSs every other weekend, so she has two w/e a month to socialize and see her friends out late if she wants.  My DH and I don't stay up late, we aren't retired and pottering around the house.  My DH works 50-60 hrs a week, and I manage my own business.  I deeply love and enjoy my GSs, both of them age 13 and 17.   They are real good boys, but the older one wants to stay over just to hang out with my DH (actually his step grandfather).  DH has told me he is not up to over nighters.  He says he feels he's still at work, because he has to be witty, clever, and always entertaining.  The boys don't come over and entertain themselves, we've been 'conditioned' to take them out to eat, find interesting things to do and talk about, activities, etc.  This is great occasionally, but we'd like to initiate it whenever possible, instead of being asked in a covert, complaining kind of way that seems to be aimed at inflicting guilt.   I'm feeling strained about this.  I don't remember any of our generations having grandma or grandpa entertain and keep grandchildren from being bored.  They (we) brought our toys, books, games whatever and just hung out with the grandparents.  I somewhat resent DD telling me they are  bored, and putting a guilt trip on me that we don't 'keep them over'.  I spend a lot of time with my GS, and have never neglected being active and lovingly involved in their lives.  I don't like overnight stays however.  Also, my house is too hot right now, as the upstairs doesn't have a/c.  Also, they live one mile away.  I have responded to DD that it would be fine for her to plan to go out, and just let me know a few days ahead and we'd plan to have the boys until 11pm on a Sat night.  DD says just forget it,  that ruins everything.  DH says most Moms don't even get one w/e a month to themselves, and he thinks its selfish.   Does anyone else have this kind of issue?  It really is more with DD than GSs.  I don't think its parents jobs to keep children from being bored.   If the 17 yr old got a part time job, he'd be much less bored in my opinion!   We are exhausted from cookouts, and sunday dinners, and always trying to be on our toes.  I feel a lot of pressure to be a good g/p as I made such a mess of being a Mom.  I don't know how to run interference and don't want to tell my GS no or cause further conflict with DD.  I feel guilty that I'm not having the boys over on the w/e but I also feel I can't put DH into a role he doesn't feel up to. 
20
I've decided it's time to stretch myself past my comfort zone and expose another load of dirty laundry to the wise women, as I'm sick of the drain of dysfunction and the drain of perplexity in my personal life.  I'm ashamed to admit it but I am completely estranged from my DH's parents.  Much of this is my own fault and I have long since accepted and owned the responsibility for the rift and made numerous attempts to re-establish peace, to no avail, and three years ago decided that I would live my life as if they did not exist.  As I had so much on my plate with trying to handle the estrangement with my DS,  this was the only way I knew to survive at all.  M DH has been no help as he assumed his 'taking no sides' stance, in favor of  pretending also and continuing with his Ps as if nothing had happened and as if I (his wife) did not exist. 

Briefly, I married DH after my children were grown, he was never married and no children and deeply attached to his FOO.  This blindsighted me, as I was never overly attached to my FOO and I had never known anyone closely who was, I was later to learn that this can be a BIG problem in married life.  We've had a rocky marriage of 11 yrs now, and from the beginning MIL expected her intimate relationship to her DS to remain unchanged.  They were inseparable before our marriage and she worried herself into distraction of every nuance of his life.   I understand now that she was ignorantly jealous of my presence in DS life and felt threatened.  MIL is a person I admired in many ways, and I wanted so much to be close to this family as I was from a lonely family.  It went OK for a couple years, but inevitably there was a showdown during one of my more pronounced periods of depression and neurosis, and I confronted her about these issues.  Husband's sister then got involved and she and I had a very vicious verbal conflict.  The fat hit the fan then and here we are about four years later and no contact.  My went to my MIL and SIL and poured out my heart to them, asking that we could move past this and have a relationship again.  The problem is that DH told MIL many personal things about us during that bad period, and as far as she is concerned I am a bad wife and treat (and treated) her son terrible.   She did everything in her power to convince him to leave the marriage.  My DH says that mama's attitude is 'touch me and die'.   I hate this situation.  Here is another holiday and it sickens me with this fake front I have to keep up.  We live in small town and often other family members are seen socially  - AWKWARD! Please can anyone help me with this??  My MIL is not old, she is actually only about 20 yrs my senior.  FAL only goes along with her, but SIL would kill you in a heartbeat and sleep like a baby.  Your advice would be much appreciated.