Ok I am a dil, I am not yet a mil but that is just a matter of time. My son is starting to have relationships, my daughter is pre teen. They are a few years apart and I had them later in life than most do.
My Mil had her children fairly young. My husband is her youngest and is in fact a few years younger than me, although I didn't come to him with anything but assets (a good job, a house entirely furnished etc) the way my mother in law acted, you would have thought I was a gold digger, after their non existent family fortune. Since we've been together (approx 20 years now) both he and I have gone from strength to strength. We aren't rich, but we are comfortable and both relatively successful in our lives, this we have achieved together.
At this point I have withdrawn from the Mil/Dil relationship. I have enough going on in my life, I don't need to be sniped at when my husband is out of earshot, be treated like I am only with him for something when I put serious work both emotionally and financially into our lives, just as he does. I don't stop my husband from visiting, I don't prevent my children visiting. It's just that I decided I deserve better than to be made to feel inferior by my mother in law. My husband is supportive of that stance.
Now I mentioned my son is starting to have relationships. He has a serious girlfriend, who doesn't seem to like me much at all. Barely speaks etc. I tried to think she's shy, tried to be interested. It got worse. I remember how it felt to be the new person in a family. Rather than try to absorb her into my family, I try to get to know her as an individual (something I felt my mother in law never did) and treat her as such. It saddens me that she doesn't seem to want to know me, at the moment I am not pushing anything. I am trying my best to not feel paranoid or bitter about it because I am sure in the long run, that will just push her further.
I've been lurking here, there and everywhere, to gain insight. I find that the young mothers today are quite assertive, I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing, perhaps if I had had the courage to just confront my mother in law, we'd be in a different place now? I felt an affinity to survivors posts, although she is a lot further down the road than I, her posts were a wake up call to me as in there but for the grace of God.
I've tried to be brief, but to give you an idea of where I am at.
Postscript,
Many of us "lurked" as you said, on the MIL hate sites and believe me, they are hate sites and we were kicked off and worse, treated unbelievably rude. We don't want you to be done the same way if you're here for understanding.
We don't have all the answers at all but we are hurting and learning as we go. We all have experienced the things you are going through. There is no clear way around it. Your son's girlfriend is probably one who is very different from you and clearly, that won't be easy.
They always pick someone who is oddly different from the way we are. Some are much more extreme than others. I'd give her time and right now, especially if they aren't married, just be cordial and as nice as you can be to her because believe me, she is taking in every look, gesture and word you say.
If you do the wrong thing, she will tell your son that you don't like her and you'll be off to the races in the whirlwind of a bad relationship. I am sure that's not what you want. Hope this helps for now.
I wanted to mention one more thing....if she continues to act the way she does, you are likely, if you're human say something to her about it. Like, "why do you act this way here?"
If you do say that, it will be bad. She will take that statement to your son, whether it's said in front of him or to her alone and tell him that you have insulted her or that you don't like her and it will get worse than your worst nightmare.
I hope you will be forewarned and let her act any way she wants to....if that means she is aloof and standoffish, so be it. Ignore her. He might marry her and he might not but if he does, watch out! You have no idea how bad a situation can get until then.
Postcript, thank you for posting.
You are welcome here and you sound like you are at the begining stages of what most of us here are going through. I hope you can help us. I hope we can help you too!
It's late here too (I gather you are on the east coast also from our previous conversation). I have to go to bed and I promise I will think about your situation and try to digest before replying.
Don't give up on us just yet. We need you here to help us and I believe we have alot to offer you also! I'm happy to have you join us here! I will be looking back in tomorrow and I know you will have lots of replies by then.
Your situation is very important to all of us here and I know you will get lots of input. I hope you will stay and enjoy what this place offers! God knows, we all deserve this place!
Your heart is in the right place! I'm proud of you and you should be too! You took a big chance tonight!
Maybe you found you niche. Let's talk for awhile and see! I'm happy you're here!
I am very happy to hear that my posts have helped someone in some way. At least some good can come out of my behavior if others can learn from it.
I am in counselling but I slip back into old patterns so easily.
Do you know that I was jealous of my DIL for having the only boy grandchild. I wanted my other DIL to have a boy and did not feel that the DIL I did not like deserved to have the only boy, so I started to act like the boy was defective. I made comments about him that indicated there was something wrong with him and then I was purposely unequal in terms of gift giving. I ensured I had a gift for every child in the room except him, just to start early in making him feel inferior.
This behavior of mine came up at the last counselling session. Then when DIL called me out on it, I played victim and acted like everyone was defending me in just pretending that the gift for his sister was for her and her brother. His name was not on it, but I wanted to make it clear that saving my feelings was way more important then saving his. He was 2 at the time.
My behavior has been terrible and I hope that others learn from me as to what not to do and if you ever see yourself in me even as a possibility then it is a red flag that if you catch early enough you can either change or end up like me, completely cut off with no quality of life to speak of. The choice is yours
Good morning Postscript!
Just wanted to check back in and give you my thoughts. As I mentioned briefly last night, I believe you are at the begining stages of what many of us are living through. The fact that you are open minded enough to consider your own problems with your MIL and look to your future relationship with a DIL shows that you're caring and loving toward your children. I believe you are in the right place here. I'm not saying that it is the only place, but I think you are trying to understand before it gets to the point many of us are at. It is my hope that your efforts to understand and work on this situation ahead of your time as a MIL, will pay off.
Survivor, the fact that you can come into a public arena and admit those things, tells me that there is still hope for you. Don't give up on yourself and think you've lost all quality of life because of your actions. You are creating your own light at the end of that tunnel, and I believe Postscript is very "right" in choosing you as someone she see's hope in... Because you are showing us right now that there is hope! I believe we all have alot to learn from you, especially with your recent efforts and admissions.
Again Postscript, Everybody here has a desire to work and learn from someone walking into this door. We really do. I'm sorry that we were so hard on you last night and I do hope you understand where we were coming from. We have so much to learn from eachother that we would never knowingly push someone out that door who is seriously looking for common ground, support and help. After all, you have something to offer us too!
I'm so happy you stayed and posted. This fact alone speaks volumes about what a brave woman you are and how much you care about your own situation.
Take care!
I think the hardest part of the MIL-DIL relationship is all the different personalities involved. You didn't appreciate being pulled into the family, so you're treating your son's GF differently. However, who knows? Maybe she's at home crying that you're not welcoming her into the family!
Your best bet is to get to know her, listen to her and be nice. Also, talk to your son. Make sure that he's doing everything he can to smooth things out between you. He probably won't marry this one, but it'll be good practice for him for the future.
Scoop
PSHHHHHHT!
Hello Postscript and welcome...glad you decided to join, share and be one with us...this is a great site...we may not have the answers, but, we do have compassionate, ladies with a great sense of humor.
QuotePostscript
My Mil had her children fairly young. My husband is her youngest and is in fact a few years younger than me, although I didn't come to him with anything but assets (a good job, a house entirely furnished etc) the way my mother in law acted, you would have thought I was a gold digger, after their non existent family fortune. Since we've been together (approx 20 years now) both he and I have gone from strength to strength. We aren't rich, but we are comfortable and both relatively successful in our lives, this we have achieved together.
Ahhh, but here is where you are wrong...You are a very rich woman....in so many ways....and sadly, your MIL didn't realize that...and it's her loss....MIL's and DIL's, have so much to learn from each other, to give to each other, to share, and it's so sad, when this happens....but, it is her loss...
QuoteAt this point I have withdrawn from the Mil/Dil relationship. I have enough going on in my life, I don't need to be sniped at when my husband is out of earshot, be treated like I am only with him for something when I put serious work both emotionally and financially into our lives, just as he does. I don't stop my husband from visiting, I don't prevent my children visiting. It's just that I decided I deserve better than to be made to feel inferior by my mother in law. My husband is supportive of that stance.
How long have you been doing this? I hope she gets the idea and decides to change this.....it's very hard when someone is purposely letting you know, that your not welcome....that your disliked and an intruder...you sound lilke your where I am with my DIL...I just don't care anymore...still makes me angry, hurts, b/c our family always got along...and we had so much fun together...I always thought my son would marry someone confident, who wanted an extended family...never did I expect his wife to estrange us from each other...like all of us, we were blind sided....
QuoteNow I mentioned my son is starting to have relationships. He has a serious girlfriend, who doesn't seem to like me much at all. Barely speaks etc. I tried to think she's shy, tried to be interested. It got worse. I remember how it felt to be the new person in a family. Rather than try to absorb her into my family, I try to get to know her as an individual (something I felt my mother in law never did) and treat her as such. It saddens me that she doesn't seem to want to know me, at the moment I am not pushing anything. I am trying my best to not feel paranoid or bitter about it because I am sure in the long run, that will just push her further.
This is where I made my mistake....when my son came of age, I should have sat him down and had a serious talk with him about choosing women who have come from severe problems...dysfunctional families and had human nature classes with him...talked about genetics and how things can effect children...explained to him in detail, how those problems can continue and corrode a marriage, to the degree of causing family problems. I should have discussed with him, narcissisum....self imposed, women who were seeking for a husband, only to be taken care of....and how things change after marriage. So, if one person comes into the marriage from a dysfunctional home...chances are, there will be problems. Also, wish we would have together read articles on the subject...sort of like a homework, discussed it freely and openly, not to mention, I had actually thought about it, but thought I was being foolish for thinking so....
Discussed with him, what to look for in a mate....someone who is outgoing, who actually has goals, perhaps college, or further education...that is a woman who will marry not because she needs to, but for love....I truly and firmly believe, that across America, this is something parents should really teach they're kids about, and the importance of understanding you don't have to be married to be successful, or because, everyone is asking you, when are you getting married, plus how important travel and life experiences are....social skills.....etc.
QuoteI've been lurking here, there and everywhere, to gain insight. I find that the young mothers today are quite assertive, I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing, perhaps if I had had the courage to just confront my mother in law, we'd be in a different place now? I felt an affinity to survivors posts, although she is a lot further down the road than I, her posts were a wake up call to me as in there but for the grace of God.
I think assertive is good, as long as assertive isn't destructive, but enjoy very much a strong assertive person, man or woman....and I feel the same way you do, perhaps if I had confronted both of them, in the very beginning, but I was spinless...feared loosing everything...
Survivor is an amazing woman...you don't find many like her who are willing to admit they're faults and view they're imperfections which dictates to her, change, and refining....which is hard work....but we're all very proud of her...
I'm so glad you joined....and hope you recieve as much from this site as I have...it's given me strength and helped me make decissions....and affirmed that I'm never alone.
Hugs
Creme
Scoop, I have to tell you that we got the biggest kick out of that story you told us of that can of Pam! We were spraying it everywhere last night! Then Luise came through and "e-pinged" us!
You crack me up! ;D
I hope you have more funny stories like that one. It's hilarious, but at the same time, helps explain the thought process of new mothers. So true. Not funny when it happens, but rib breaking to look back on. If you're having MIL problems, it might be good to tell your MIL about that one! She may have remembered the incident and wondered what she did wrong. It could be a great ground breaker... :)
Coco, I got up this morning laughing about that from Scoop.....psssst! Danger!! Poison!!!!
She is hilarious. I hope she posts more and more.. I get her humor.
Me too Chickie! Too funny!
Creme, I am such an airhead that I was all over the place (kind of like spaghetti). My thoughts go everywhere and I'm not always good at collecting them. I don't know where you would say that you are not good with words. Your advice is spot-on, and your wording is compassionate. I'm happy we have you here too!
Pssshhht
But Creme,
Here's the danger of sitting your son down and talking to him about his girlfriend. If they marry later and you have talked to him he WILL tell her and she will hold that against her forever!
Believe me, when son was dating DDIL, we sat him down and talked to him about her. She was the most obessive person we'd ever met! He did break up with her because she talked to a sales clerk in a manner that was so rude and hateful that he couldn't believe it. Also, she had demanded that he break all ties with us. She was treating us very nicely, though at the time.
She began 'courting' us, calling us 'Mom and Dad' and calling all the time to speak to us. How loving she was.
After they married, he must have told her that we had that talk with him. Oh boy! It's been a disaster ever since. So, Mothers need to be very careful even about a girlfriend.
Just my thoughts.
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on January 28, 2010, 06:07:34 AM
But Creme,
Here's the danger of sitting your son down and talking to him about his girlfriend. If they marry later and you have talked to him he WILL tell her and she will hold that against her forever!
Believe me, when son was dating DDIL, we sat him down and talked to him about her. She was the most obessive person we'd ever met! He did break up with her because she talked to a sales clerk in a manner that was so rude and hateful that he couldn't believe it. Also, she had demanded that he break all ties with us. She was treating us very nicely, though at the time.
She began 'courting' us, calling us 'Mom and Dad' and calling all the time to speak to us. How loving she was.
After they married, he must have told her that we had that talk with him. Oh boy! It's been a disaster ever since. So, Mothers need to be very careful even about a girlfriend.
Just my thoughts.
No, I meant, when our son's and daughter's are beginning to date, 15, 16, 17....I'm sorry I wasn't clearer
Yanno, like talk to hubbie, and have the conversation's over dinner...
we used to sit sometimes for hours after dinner and talk, even when his friends came for dinner....and we touched so many good subjects, just not that one....but, yeah, your right, and totally agree if I would have done something like that while he was dating her...however, at the time, I honestly Chickie, didn't know she was like that...she was stand offish, but chalked it off to her being shy....
Quote from: cocobars on January 28, 2010, 06:06:20 AM
Me too Chickie! Too funny!
Creme, I am such an airhead that I was all over the place (kind of like spaghetti). My thoughts go everywhere and I'm not always good at collecting them. I don't know where you would say that you are not good with words. Your advice is spot-on, and your wording is compassionate. I'm happy we have you here too!
Pssshhht
I'm the same way as you, and have been told on other forums, that I needed to come down off my high horse....or that I come off like a know it all....
actually, and I don't know if you'll understand this....when I'm writing, or posting in forums, I'm actually, talking to myself, or thinking outloud, it sort of reaffirming to me...and have been so misunderstood on other forums...b/c of my direct approach....so I try very hard to change that....but thanks so very much....hopefully, then it is working....
as you all do, I really care about people and never want to hurt the feelings of others....
You never know if they're just shy or if they're getting set to come in later for the "herding away".
But early on, when they were first dating as young guys, we had such great girls around here who they were dating that we had no need to talk to them about them. We just adored all of them.
I think I told you about the one who, at her wedding, said "the only wish I have is that you two were my inlaws."
She was darling......
Quote from: cremebrulee on January 28, 2010, 07:05:15 AM
I'm the same way as you, and have been told on other forums, that I needed to come down off my high horse....or that I come off like a know it all....
actually, and I don't know if you'll understand this....when I'm writing, or posting in forums, I'm actually, talking to myself, or thinking outloud, it sort of reaffirming to me...and have been so misunderstood on other forums...b/c of my direct approach....so I try very hard to change that....but thanks so very much....hopefully, then it is working....
as you all do, I really care about people and never want to hurt the feelings of others....
Then we have something in common. I haven't really visited other forums, but I have been told that I come off as a know it all. It really hurt me because I feel so inferior most of the time, and really care so much about people.
I've been trying to work on my wording so nobody feels that way, but when I get upset, excited or see something funny, I lose it. Then I go back and read something I've written and I'm embarassed of how it came across...
Slow progress I guess is better than none at all. I am trying and I hope everyone knows how much I do care about them.
Coco....you're darling! We get you! No explanation necessary.
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on January 28, 2010, 07:09:06 AM
You never know if they're just shy or if they're getting set to come in later for the "herding away".
But early on, when they were first dating as young guys, we had such great girls around here who they were dating that we had no need to talk to them about them. We just adored all of them.
I think I told you about the one who, at her wedding, said "the only wish I have is that you two were my inlaws."
She was darling......
I'm smiling, one can only wish for a DIL like her....well, ya never know
what tomorrow brings Chickie...
but, what I'm saying is, that parents, need to educate they're kids better, from little on up, of life experiences, and, that should be one of them....go teach our son's and daughters, what to look for in a mate....I mean, think about it, how many Daughter's marry very physically abusive men....or verbally abusive...it should be part of a child's education, to learn human behavior, the whys and why nots, and what is good and isn't good in child rearing, and how to identify an insecure person.....or how to observe people who come from an abusive home....they teach teachers what to look for...why not teach our children...I think and belive, it should be a very important part of child rearing....really and seriously.
anyway...
I agree with that thought. I would be afraid the buillies would use that knowledge though. At least now, we can spot them...
That would be a nice thing to go over with your children as a parent. Sort of forearming them for the life ahead. What a nice thought... a positive thought!
If I remember my teenage years and early twenties correctly, I didn't really believe my parents. I remember my father telling me he knew how I felt, that he'd been a teenager too and thinking oh he couldn't possibly understand.
Of course now I know better.
What exactly do you mean by dysfunctional families? Children whose parents are divorced or just people with problems?
Hi Postscript!
I'm happy your back! I think what everyone means that talks about it, is people who come from family backgrounds where they have been hurt deeply. Like being exposed to alcoholic parents, incest, rape, abuse in general. I could be wrong, but that is what I think the women here are talking about when they use the word dysfunctional.
I'm not real sure that anyone (at least in our age group) hasn't been exposed to some kind of abuse, as society now describes it. So basically, I think in one form or another, we all came from some kind of dysfunctional background. The good news? I am hoping (but not sure yet) that with the progression of intelligence regarding these situations, we are more aware now than we were back "in the day." What do you think? What is your idea of dysfunctional?
I think I am from a dysfunctional family, simply because my parents didn't have the knowledge at hand that we do today. By the same token, I agree with alot of what I was raised with... I am "happy" I got those spankings when I was a child. I learned humility from seeing the consequences of my own actions. I believe everyone has different life experiences that make up their personalities now. It's what makes us who we are!
As a parent, I can tell you I've made huge mistakes! As a human being, I say that I wasn't perfect and I did my best. My "best" wasn't good enough for everyone. I have to forgive me, and keep trying. If I don't do that, then I've lost...
Hmm dysfunction, according to the pc world of today I came from a dysfunctional family, my parents divorced in an era when divorce was not the norm. My parents also remarried and I inherited step siblings. I don't consider it dysfunctional however, our patched together families worked. Parents were able to function better as parents without the pressure of being married to each other, they became better as friends than they were as spouses. According to the views of today, I was abused because I was expected to take responsibility for my siblings when my parents were not home, I got myself a job delivering papers at the age of 11 because my parents couldn't afford to "give" me an allowance so on and so forth. I don't actually consider that abuse, I consider it teaching me self sufficiency and responsibility.
As I see it, no authority has the right to label a family as dysfunctional if it works, what they are saying is different to societies view of a conventional relationship/family group.
If it doesn't work, then it becomes dysfunctional because it has ceased to function. When it descends to abuse, and by that I mean real abuse physical or mental, then it becomes a matter for the authorities.
Children don't come with instructions and I don't think there is a right or wrong way to parent, it's our job to provide a secure environment for them to grow in.
I was also taught by my father, that parents are not forever. I only expect to parent my children for a relatively short part of their lives, once they can function on their own in society, have surpassed the ages of legality etc, the relationship changes from parent/child to adult/adult. That is where I am with my son at the moment. Moving from parent/child to adult/adult.
We all make mistakes, it's how we handle those mistakes that makes the difference according to my husband. I agree with that too and it is a philosophy we have tried to pass down to the children.
I absolutely agree with you. By society's rules, most of us came from dysfunctional families. I don't think you will find an argument in the whole bunch here! LOL! I believe you learned good things from your paper route at 11. I had one around the same age tha I split with my brother. I thought it was an adventure to wake up in the middle of the night and run around in the dark!
I really think the word dysfunctional comes in when you are talking about the examples that are really abusive that children grow up with and are exposed to. Seeing dad beating mom, verbal abuse, etc.. That's dysfunctional.
Your are so right! Children don't come with instructions. As parents, we will (every one of us) make mistakes, because we are new at this little person thing! No instructions! HA! So we stumble through and do the best things (we think) for our children.
I halfway agree with your father's teachings. I believe we teach our children how to live in this society and have to let go. I also know as a mother that releasing the love I have is not so easy if I can see my children (who I love with all my heart) are NOT being loved or are making some mistakes that are dangerous.
I am not an overbearing mother. I release and watch. But please don't hurt them and let me find out about it! My son is 34. He's still my baby. I'm 55. I'm still my DM and DF's baby. Parents love and protect. It's so hard to give up that protect part! But we have to learn how to love and guide instead. I take a very honest approach. It doesn't always work! HA! But I know if my children want the truth about something they always come to me.
Not everyone is the same. It's what makes us all unique! That's just how I feel...
I don't think it's letting go of the love. According to my father who is retired and lives a long way from me, I will be his little girl until the day he dies and he loves me unreservedly. What he taught me is you let go of the parental relationship, I've no doubt you've done it.
It starts with choices, at some point you stop telling your children what to wear etc, you have faith that the morals and lessons you gave them, will be observed if you are not around to enforce them. You stop telling them what to do and start discussing their choices with them, then you begin only discussing the choices in life that they decide to discuss with you. I haven't truly got to the part where they take a wife/husband yet but having done it, I know most of my choices are now discussed primarily with my husband and with my parents only as a general sort of discussion. While I welcome my father's insights, I no longer feel bound by them and I know he doesn't expect me to follow his views to the letter. We have some wonderful talks Dad and I, sometimes he alters my view, sometimes I alter his. That is what I want with my children eventually. A relationship of equality, that is what I am moving toward and aiming for. But that is just my take on my role.
I discovered when my son was a baby, I was his world, but that only lasted for a very short amount of time, soon his world included his father, grandparents, aunts and uncles, my friends, a pre school teacher and other children. His world grew and grew. It didn't mean he didn't want or need me, but it meant he needed less of me. I expect that to continue and I welcome it, because I know it means I am doing my job.
Maybe I am doing it wrong? I don't know, I only know I am parenting the best way I know how from the examples set for me.
I think dysfunctional families can include those that don't value family members as being integral parts of the unit or treat them as 'less than.' IMO, it doesn't have to be a loud or obviously hurtful exchange - mixed messages, withheld affection, no acknowledgement of each other's ideas or opinions, or an ongoing lack of meaningful communication can create dysfunction in a family and cause confusion, alienation and poor self image in a child.
Regarding letting go of our adult children, I think most of the MILs here understand that their days of direct parenting are over and we are not looking to smother anyone. We just want to be treated with kindness and respect; we want our hard work and effort recognized and valued occasionally. We don't want to be shoved in a corner and forgotten. We want to know our lives mean something to our families.
Postscript, it sounds to me like you are doing all you can! There isn't a set way to do things that is "right." Too bad huh! That would make life alot easier for us... Everyone is different and families are different. I agree with penstamen on dysfunction also. I believe dysfunction has alot to do with treating family members as "less than." Like they have no value and don't matter. The "children are to be seen and not heard" attitude. It affects that child's outlook on others AND their view of themself. It creates insecurities which leads to fears and jealousy and just a world of problems...
Penstamen, I agree with your take on letting go of our grown children also. I'm not that good with my wording, but I do know that as a MIL I would like to be treated kindly by my DIL, so I try to treat her as considerately as possible. Of course, I have to struggle to do that sometimes and I have slipped. I allow myself to make those "slips" though. We all make mistakes. If I can make a mistake, then she should be able to do that too.
I think the only problem I can see with my DIL, is that she wants me to sit in a corner and not say anything (which I have done). I'm treated like furniture. I believe that says alot about her background. She may have been treated that way growing up, so she thinks it's normal to ignore people when you "grow up." She doesn't know it's a problem. I can't talk, unless I'm talking to her (she is all important). If I ask my son a question, she answers... I hadn't had a conversation "with him" for over a year, until he left her and moved in with me. She didn't even know she was doing that. I talked to my son about it and he didn't really say anything, but he did get that deer in the headlights look. From what I can remember of his own personality, that means he noticed it too, or maybe she does it with him too?
I think my DIL is very manipulative and controlling (would never say that openly though). She will not let me talk about my son or to him. I think she's afraid of our relationship. Am I wrong?
He went to court last year and I showed up to be "support." Afterwards, she was talking to his attorney and I asked a question (directly to his attorney). She answered FOR the attorney. I asked another, she answered again. I finally said my goodbyes and went home. My SIL was with me and she was livid! I was too, but she was absolutely blowing the top of her head off! I know this is mean, but I'm secretly sort of happy they separated. I can talk to my son now. Ask him a question and get HIS answer.
Nuff said, I could go on and on. Some DIL's just don't think we are human. I turned into a chair with a mouth when he married her. I'm not going to try to come between them, because I'm afraid he might find another one just like her - or (God forbid) worse! She has three children by another marriage. One is a son and you what what I believe about karma and time. Time has that way of making you look at the other side. I don't worry about it too much. It gets to me sometimes and I vent. Then it's over...
Quote from: penstamen on January 28, 2010, 10:10:22 PM
I think dysfunctional families can include those that don't value family members as being integral parts of the unit or treat them as 'less than.' IMO, it doesn't have to be a loud or obviously hurtful exchange - mixed messages, withheld affection, no acknowledgement of each other's ideas or opinions, or an ongoing lack of meaningful communication can create dysfunction in a family and cause confusion, alienation and poor self image in a child.
Regarding letting go of our adult children, I think most of the MILs here understand that their days of direct parenting are over and we are not looking to smother anyone. We just want to be treated with kindness and respect; we want our hard work and effort recognized and valued occasionally. We don't want to be shoved in a corner and forgotten. We want to know our lives mean something to our families.
Just to be clear, I was explaining to Cocobars my parenting philosophy not accusing anyone of anything.
Coco your dil does sound controlling. To a certain extent I can understand answering on behalf of my husband, for example with regard to the children, he never remembered illnesses etc and that is because I generally was the one to keep track of such things so I would generally answer those types of questions. But the examples you are giving show she's really pushing herself to the forefront.
I wish all people came with a manual of instructions that outlined their expectations and needs, life would be a lot easier and you would always know where you stood.
Hi Postscript!
I didn't read anything into your explanation, and really, from Penstamens reply I don't think she took it that way. She pointed out that we had left some things out. She was right. I replied to her post after that thanking her. That's exactly the thing though. There is no manual. Everybody is different. We all have to stumble through be a parent.
LOL! I try not to say things about my DIL, but sometimes I have to. Thank God I get it off my chest and keep going though.
The manual thing.
Everyone has a different way of speaking. I understand your wording. That you want to be clear. I know where you are coming from, but you word things differently and other women here may not see that.
I know what Penstamen said and understand what she was saying. She worded it in a way that wasn't clear to your way of wording, so you may think the same way.
We are meeting in the middle with so many people. It took me a bit to get used to not thinking someone here was upset at something I had said. Sometimes I'm still afraid my wording will upset someone. Hang in Postscript. Hold on. You're in for a wonderful ride here. It takes time, but nobody will judge you. They may ask you to clarify, but I can assure you they are not judging you. You are in the same place we are. Actually you are heading into it.
We all know that. It takes time to feel comfortable. When you do, you will see what I mean.
You are a wonderful mom or you wouldn't be here. You are here because you don't want to repeat the actions you have seen from your MIL. You should talk to invisible. She has a DIL that talks to her in horrible ways, just like your MIL. That is what is dysfunctional. Someone trying to make you feel "less than."
Nobody deserves it. You won't get that here. You can let your guard down and have fun with us. Let us all get to know you!
Coco I just wanted everyone to know I wasn't being accusatory at all, my wording is different probably because I am not from America.
Thank you Postscript. I didn't want to upset you either. I really understand the difference. It seemed you were upset.
See how easily this happens? I'm sorry Postscript. I may have misread as well. Maybe getting to know people and trust them is a problem for me. I think your heart is in the right place and I agree with what you have been saying.
If you are from another country, then that explains the difference in words. Your explanation of that creates understanding. I can assure you that you are welcome here. Again, I'm sorry I misread your post. It wasn't my intention to upset you and not being from America isn't shameful (by the way). None of our ancesters and many of us are not from here either. Please don't feel sensitive about that...
I run into the issue of coming from different countries all of the time on my counseling website. Not only are our phrases and points of reference often very different but for many of the people who ask me questions, English is a second language. We have to tip-toe around sometimes, trying to communicate effectively.
Trust is needed and that's hard with strangers and sometimes unwarranted. Some of us are more thin-skinned than others, some exhibit humor that isn't funny to one and all. It can be a sticky-wicket but if we want to be supported and supportive badly enough...we can work around the mine-field.
How I love it that we are all trying. :)
Quote from: luise.volta on January 29, 2010, 10:35:46 PM
I run into the issue of coming from different countries all of the time on my counseling website. Not only are our phrases and points of reference often very different but for many of the people who ask me questions, English is a second language. We have to tip-toe around sometimes, trying to communicate effectively.
How I love it that we are all trying. :)
Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe "the more the merrier." When our points of reference and phrases are different, it creates diversity in our own thinking. Understanding what someone is talking about is "key" to understanding more diverse situations. So Postscript's involvement in this site, may be "mind opening" for many of us. I think we can tip-toe through the "getting to know eachother" stage. Then she has alot of different ways of looking at things we can all learn from, while we have different views from the perspective she is used to. That is a win/win situation!
The more points of reference we all consider and try to understand, the more our chances of figuring out our own situations increase.
Thank you Postscript for that! It's exciting to think about learning from someone and teaching too! What a nice thing...
Yup, that's what it's all about. We've got to keep communicating and clarifying!
Of course the more the merrier. That's what the world Wide Web is all about. We learn and grow...expand and share...clarify and teach. It's wonderful.
Hi There, sorry, I've been off line for a few days....
Dysfunctional families to me, are those where there is only one parent, and that parent, really shouldn't be a parent....or, there are both parents, and there is alcohol or drug abuse, along with children being beaten up and down verbally....or where the parents, leave the children to fend for themselves and/or practically raise themselves....
My son, I remember, in the beginning felt very sorry for my DIL...and I remember him telling me some things....as I've observed my DIL, I can surely state, that she has some very severe problems, as I have not shared everything online....but there are evident implications of abuse, fear and loss of confidence. However, it still doesn't excuse her behavior towards me.
What I mean about conditioning our kids when they're young, is the fact that first parents have to be made more aware how important parenting is...the implications of educating our children on social skills, along with teaching them the importants of understanding human behaviors and how very important it is for them to understand how a someone from a dysfunctional family needs heavy counseling for years, before they should enter into a relationship, as they've been conditioned from little on up to belive that, it's actually ok to excuse that behavior but also to be that way....they cannot help picking behavior patterns up, both good and bad....but, the fact of the matter is, they will bring a contaminating logic of control, self imposition, lack of confidence, and so forth into the marriage, that will hurt and effect a lot of people.
If we talk about human behavior patterns as a family over dinner, not all the time, but make it a learning experience, including the entire family, like we did...and touch on that subject several times...it helps children learn on what to look for in a mate...but, I also believe confidence and self esteem need to be present as well....
I saw this work, with all the kids that came to our home...we used to just sit and talk over and after dinner, and the kids enjoyed that...they asked questions...etc....but, I never thought to touch on this subject....of dysfunctional DIL's....and I don't mean that as a cut down, but more so, understanding why they are the way they are....and wishing if only they're husbands would insist that this is not normal and get them into counseling...
I guess what we are seeing is that the husband who is being controlled isn't going to insist. Sad.
That is so sad. I wish there really were something we could have thought of as their mothers to help them. We were blindsighted. I just didn't see it coming and didn't really think about it that much!
Post I'm really sorry for your problems. But you know as DIL myself I really think you're doing all the right things. If my IL's acted like they really like me, acted interested in me and my life and not judge my decisions or how I live my life to what I buy etc.. and talk about me to other relatives and try to convince my DH that I'm bad then boy hiddy! I'll bet I'd call them mom and dad and we'd visit WAY more than we do now and invite them to be apart of the family and do family activities but they chose to be rejecting and judgemental so they get called once and week and visited occasionally. And they play a very small role in our lives and know very little personal info about us simply b/c DH is trying to limit info b/c of their almighty judgmental attitude towards the "youngins"
Another thing is that I'm assuming your son is a teen?? If so then his girlfriend is probably just a typical teen. I know it's like pulling teeth to get any long sentences out of my 15 year old niece. And also I'm sure that's a little daunting for a young girl to be meeting her boyfriends family. you just want to measure up so bad. I remember meeting boyfriends family and how nerve racking it is. I would just keep making her feel comfortable and acting interested. If she turns out to be one of those insecure and "I gotta hate you if you're happy and successful and I'm not" then watch out cause that's the people that are the hardest to connect to!! But we'll all pray that this young lady is just shy and feels out of her element and everything will work its self out. Good luck to you.
QuoteQuote from: notaccepted&finewithit on February 04, 2010, 12:07:19 PM
Post I'm really sorry for your problems. But you know as DIL myself I really think you're doing all the right things. If my IL's acted like they really like me, acted interested in me and my life and not judge my decisions or how I live my life to what I buy etc.. and talk about me to other relatives and try to convince my DH that I'm bad then boy hiddy! I'll bet I'd call them mom and dad and we'd visit WAY more than we do now and invite them to be apart of the family and do family activities but they chose to be rejecting and judgemental so they get called once and week and visited occasionally. And they play a very small role in our lives and know very little personal info about us simply b/c DH is trying to limit info b/c of their almighty judgmental attitude towards the "youngins"
This really breaks the heart in two, when you see a DIL or MIL who sincerely wants to get along and have a normal family...yanno, they say, most people want to be love and be loved...and it's such a shame, that there are people out there who stagnate the growth of family and hurt so many other lives....
Big hugs to you
Creme
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on January 28, 2010, 06:07:34 AM
But Creme,
Here's the danger of sitting your son down and talking to him about his girlfriend. If they marry later and you have talked to him he WILL tell her and she will hold that against her forever!
Believe me, when son was dating DDIL, we sat him down and talked to him about her. She was the most obessive person we'd ever met! He did break up with her because she talked to a sales clerk in a manner that was so rude and hateful that he couldn't believe it. Also, she had demanded that he break all ties with us. She was treating us very nicely, though at the time.
She began 'courting' us, calling us 'Mom and Dad' and calling all the time to speak to us. How loving she was.
After they married, he must have told her that we had that talk with him. Oh boy! It's been a disaster ever since. So, Mothers need to be very careful even about a girlfriend.
Just my thoughts.
Boy I agree with that! I have to say when my IL's talk about me to others it makes me angry of course but when they try to tear me down to to my DH, oh boy that was so different and so much more personal. I took at as they were trying to convince my DH that I was bad. Or that MIL tries convince DH not to do things that I enjoy like eating out b/c in her mind that's too expensive even though we only do it once or twice a week. But when I found out she was doing this, that was the straw that broke the camels back for me and now I have very little to do with her and DH sees her only occasionally b/c he realized how petty and cruel his mother was being and that he made it clear that our relationship was more important to him and he wasn't going to let his mother's snipe at me anymore. Its worked out great so far. I'm sure MIL is upset but we've done really well in protecting our marriage. I'm much happier now.