Hard to believe this statistic, but in this month's Smithsonian magazine (Oct 2013), page 18, the statistic reads: "51 --- Percent of US parents who say they have "amicable" relationship with their AC."
WOW!!! :o
Is anyone else as shocked by this as I am? (no source was given)
This surprises me for a few reasons:
1. For this stat to appear in a magazine of such repute as Smithsonian is telling. If their editors consider it newsworthy, then it probably touches a lot of their readers.
2. The percentage (51%) is far lower than I thought it would be. I really would have thought that this figure would have been in the 70s or so.
3. If this stat is accurate, Luise may find a whole lot more folks who are interested in being a part of this forum!
4. This stat makes me wonder if it's cool for ACs to claim that they are estranged from their parents.
Thoughts?
I would have thought it would have been higher too. I know it seems that this was becoming more prevalent, but I still wouldn't have guessed that high.
I'm not really that shocked. I probably wouldn't have guessed as low, but I can totally believe this. It's 51% of parents saying the relationship is amicable. I wonder what the AC say. I've always thought the big happy family image was overstated. Lots of people come on here and other sites absolutely amazed that so many others face similar problems. I think in the past it was easier to hide the estrangements. When your AC live hundreds or thousands of miles away, in the past it was a no-brainer that you had little contact. But with social media and (relatively) cheap air travel, it's not so easy to hide. I think this is one of those things that haven't been talked about in the past so it seems like there's a sudden epidemic of family estrangements. Unfortunately, if this has been a widespread problem for awhile, that doesn't make it easier for the individuals suffering through it. On the plus side, when a problem comes out in the open, it's easier to find support and help if not a cure.
I'd be interested in what people in the 49% group thought had caused the estrangement.
Quote from: Pen on October 17, 2013, 02:16:20 PM
I'd be interested in what people in the 49% group thought had caused the estrangement.
Good question, Pen. I'd bet it was somehow the mother's fault, as our society seems to enjoy "mother blaming," regardless if it's accurate.
It's been awhile since I've posted, but still keeping up with all of you, absorbing from the comments what might help me heal.
HS, appreciate your thoughts here, because in my mind, it seems like everywhere DH and I go, a "big, happy family" is within view. OR, I hear about other families vacationing together for a few days.
Twice a year, we make a trip to the beach, and always invite our AC, their spouses and GKs to come visit. But they never take up the offer. It breaks my heart as I watch other families making good memories b/c that's what I want. And there's nothing we can do to make them want to come. Just don't understand it. I'm beginning to believe that my AC's generation is just self-centered, it's all about them, not caring for the older generation, who helped them get where they are. Seems to me, the harder I try to keep my family closely connected, the farther apart we become. And it doesn't affect DH in the same manner as it does me. He doesn't even think about it, but goes on his merry way, enjoying his hobbies. I have lots to learn, WW!
I think I can go along with the generational thing. The couple across the road from us are in their 80's so their 6 kids are in their 50's and 60's.. They are always hosting big yard parties and gatherings at their homes with their kids and grandkids. Yet those of us in our 50's and 60's seem to have a hard time getting OUR kids to visit or be civil.
I thought this statistic was part of a story on families, but it is a sidebar statistic to a group of stories on conflict. It didn't give the source or any details on the survey. I wonder how many parents were surveyed. Did they have to respond amicable or non-amicable, or were there several other choices? I think it would be interesting to know if the AC of the 51% would agree with the assessment and if the AC of the 49% would also agree. I know I spent the first few years of living a few towns away from my ILs thinking everything was fine only to discover they had building resentments. I originally searched for this article online (to no avail), but found another article by another magazine that said 90% of parent-AC relationships have conflict - there wasn't much detail on the source of this number, but it seemed to be referring to significant conflict, not just the conflict you see in practically every relationship. A few other articles cited the US as being the leader among nations in parent-AC conflict. Those stats seemed to come from a survey or a little under 2700 parents in six different countries.
It would also be interesting to know how the respondents defined amicable. It's not like parents and AC are either bosom buddies or totally estranged. What one family considers amicable might be a nightmare to another. The problem arises when what the parents view as amicable the AC view as horrible and vice versa. If both sides think visiting/talking/texting three times a week is good or if both sides think visiting/talking/texting three times a year is good, you have an amicable relationship. Many of the stories here illustrate situations where neither side is right or wrong, just each side has different expectations. (Of course, there are many stories here where on side is being absolutely rude/obnoxious/unrealistic/abusive - I'm not Pollyanna by any means.)
Shiny, extended family vacations look good on paper, but they can be a minefield. There could be a host of reasons why your AC don't accept your invitation. Could be they are not as fond of the beach as you are. Could be they have limited vacation days and have other ideas on how to best use them. They may know of situations where a vacation turned into a veritable warzone in the family. I have a friend who didn't talk to her sister for several months after the sister joined my friend and her kids on a vacation. (as much as I love my friend, when she told me the story, I was about 85% in sympathy with the sister - but don't tell my friend that!) Since beach visits aren't working in making good memories, look at other opportunities. Sometimes our best memories occur in the day-to-day monotony of life, not on the holidays or vacations. Good luck.
well, I'm not that surprised either even though I thought it would be higher....seems like we're surrounded by peeps who seem to have it all together...or want it to appear so. This reminds me of that quote:
"Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle"
? J.M. Barrie
You are right, firelight, that many people want to give the "projection" of having a rosy life, when the reality is far from it.
I love that Barrie quote -- so true.
HS: thanks for your thoughts as they give me insight ... especially your comment:
"Sometimes our best memories occur in the day-to-day monotony of life, not on the holidays or vacations."
I do have a theory - a mistake I made in raising my indifferent children. I was raised in a large family where Dad and Mom fought, the kids were beat and there wasn't much money. I think this was probably a bit common at the time. My generation (I'm 60) started parenthood with the mindset that my kids will have everything, including a nice mother. I was so accommodating, they grew up thinking I was a door mat. Think we overdid it and gave too much and now we want something from them we didn't ask for ourselves from them - respect.
So much pain caused by the ones you love. Its heartbreaking to say the least. And I'm sorry for anyone living in this nightmare.
I don't think there is a single person here who would have chosen this hellish situation. However, I think we find ways to cope. I've been dreading the upcoming holidays for quite some time. I've decided that I am going to send DS a TG card. Then if the silence continues, I'll send him an x-mas card w/a little gift card to whatever thing --- iTunes or whatever --- and just call it done. I've made my holiday plans and they do not include him.
Dedicatedmom. You hit the nail right on the head. I think that too. Respect seems a thing of the past.
Billy Graham said it best: A child that is allowed to be disrespectful to their parents will not have true respect
for anyone.
fantine - finding the upcoming holidays hard too. want so much to have our "happy family" but it isn't working out at all. dil is attached to her mom and we are completely left out of everything. my grandbabes look at me as a stranger. don't understand how or why - does she think at all how cruel this is? she is civil to my face but does anything to block a visit. what is the point of this?
trying hard to move past and enjoy my life w/other family and friends. but the empty spot is always there and i am dreading the holidays. what little we will get will just leave me wishing for more.
I too am already hitting the "Mute" button on the TV when the holly, jolly ads hit the airways.
I'm going to ignore and forget the holidays as much as possible. I'm going to find a nearby church and ask if they can use my help to serve a meal or sweep a floor on Christmas Day. I'll bask in my usual celebrations of December 26th, one of my favourite days of the year.
Don't sit around waiting for people who are ignoring you to keep it up. Keep busy, make plans, and most of all, help others, and continue spreading the spirit of Christmas from yourself even if others are spreading it your way.
Comfort and joy.........comfort yourself in any way that you can, and add joy to the lives of others however you can. Family doesn't have to be blood family, every person you help along is part of mankind, the whole human family.
CP
PS. Those folks in the Philippines could use a hand, send a donation, a basket, get a neighbourhood drive going to collect blankets, socks, and toys for the kids. The people who survived the recent typhoon aren't looking forward to Christmas either, I'll bet. Make a difference, no matter how small.
Wow! I have never heard that Billy Graham quote before. Fantastic!
However, I would make one amendment to it. I"m not convinced that parents allow their children to be disrespectful. No matter how much of a kerfuffle we make and do everything in the world to implore better treatment, the DC make a conscious decision about how they are going to behave towards us.
Hi Fantine,
While our AC do decide how to treat us, we encourage more of the same if we accept it and keep on taking it. We teach others how to treat us based on our own actions that reflect our boundaries or lack there of...
"I'm going to end our visit because I have asked you not to use that language and to lower your volume around me but it continues. I will call u next week and maybe we can have a clean conversation?"
No blame, no accusations just facts.
Footloose ---
Have you actually used this talking point with your AC? If so, what kind of reaction did you get?
Fantine
Hi Fantine,
It went over like a fart in church! LOL! It was a big change in my behavior as I was previously trying to "take my crumbs" and get along so I might be included but found out that my personal boundaries were almost non- existent.
Their first reaction was "change back" and I did not. It lead to separation for over a year w/ my DS and almost a full year w/ other toxic fam members.
Now, I am no more close to them as I was before but at least I am not mistreated. All of them have come around and now accept the new me, except for my youngest sis who refuses to end her grudge. I always thought we were close but only when I was able to follow her lead and be a push over. Sadly it was what other ppl could get from me in time, attention and resources.
My FOO actually did me a huge favor by being difficult. it made me ask myself why I stay around these pple when I have so many loving relationships that actually enrich everyone's life involved, not just the other person.
This forum, a good shrink and tons of self study have led to my emotional security. To thy self be true? We teach others how to treat us by our reaction or lack there of to their undesired behavior towards us.
Our changes my in fact end some of our relationships for a period of time or even forever. In ending unhealthy connections, we are now open to others and can spend time in healthy relationships and have a better life.
I still am disappointed that the future family I expected doesn't look to be a possibility but keep hope that I will reconnect on my positive terms with these people. If it never happens, I have trust that it is in my best interest.
You deserve relationships that give bac: Give and take w/ respect and love. I always had different rules for friends vs family and have to be honest. I would NOT chose to be friends with a good number of my dysfunctional FOO.
Footloose,
I had to LOL at your opening sentence! :)) What a mental image!
You made a number of important comments and I thank you for sharing your ideas and thoughts with all of us. I was intrigued by your sentence that read: "I always thought we were close but only when I was able to follow her lead and be a push over" It reminded me of a couple of friendships I have had with women (not family) who also behaved this way. Interesting.
"I still am disappointed that the future family I expected doesn't look to be a possibility but keep hope that I will reconnect on my positive terms with these people. If it never happens, I have trust that it is in my best interest." I am currently tangling with this realization myself. It's an ongoing and painful process, but if I honestly look at where I was in 2010, when DS moved out, I'm in a much better place now. Not healed by any definition of the word, but I'm doing a lot better than I was. Progress. Still a long way to go, but my nadir is definitely in my rearview mirror.
"I would NOT chose to be friends with a good number of my dysfunctional FOO." Truer words have never been spoken. Interestingly, the whole dynamic of familial obligations is a strange one. For many, such as my DS and other AC who are represented here, it's a license to treat parents (read: mothers) like garbage. Yet with friendships, it can sometimes be easier to make the break, as there is no blood tie. Still painful, but can be done.
Foot, keep sharing with us!
Fantine
When we first began to have problems with our family, I did some research and some research shows that the numbers are even worse.Many parents feel a great deal of shame when put into this situation as if they have done something wrong, so are not truthful about the situation. There are many theories about why this is occurring. One theory is that we simply sacrificed too much for our children, gave them too much and therefore they have no respect for our feelings. This idea goes on to say that we put a lot of emphasis on material things by giving them just about everything they wanted when we could, thus they want only the best immediately when they get out on their own. And they want it all now. Many do not intend to start out in a starter home. They want a new home. They have no intention of helping their parents with anything. Their parents (and their parents money)are there for their convenience. In other words we raised a completely selfish generation. I am not stating that this is my belief only that it is something I have read several times. What do you all think about this theory?
Another theory is that our AC have to all work, normally both parents, and they have so much to do raising their kids, making their marriages work, keeping their finances in order, etc that they do not want to take the time and/or do not have the energy to involve their parents in their lives. After all many have more education than their parents and do not really fit in with their friends. What do you think of this one?
If the trend continues, all I can say is that all parents had best be well prepared for a lonely old age and be prepared financially ( not that we would't be anyway) to take care of all of our own needs or hire someone to help us.
Also if you are reading this and believe that this could never happen to you, you are wrong. it can and it does everyday to the best of parents.
LMLMN...I think that I raised my DS to appreciate the value of a dollar. He had to pay for many of the things some young adults take for granted. However, I could not protect him from, or prepare him for, meeting someone who had managed to get everything handed to her on a silver platter. She had a newer car than either myself or my DH drove. Her cell phone bill was paid for by her parents in spite of the fact that they were stretched very thin. The next thing I knew my DS was at my house contemplating out loud about how he would inherit it. I still have not really processed this. Not sure I really want to. Who is this person????
Quote from: Love Me Love Me Not on November 17, 2013, 04:39:52 PM
Another theory is that our AC have to all work, normally both parents, and they have so much to do raising their kids, making their marriages work, keeping their finances in order, etc that they do not want to take the time and/or do not have the energy to involve their parents in their lives. After all many have more education than their parents and do not really fit in with their friends. What do you think of this one?
This theory I can't get on board with in my case, for two reasons. Both myself and DS's Dad have always worked and still managed to fit in family times, on both sides. And two, I might could go along with it, if it was both sides of the family that were being shunned. In my case, it's simply a conscious decision they have made to not include my side of the family.
"In my case, it's simply a conscious decision they have made to not include my side of the family. " Same here, pooh.
"Another theory is that our AC have to all work, normally both parents, and they have so much to do raising their kids, making their marriages work, keeping their finances in order, etc that they do not want to take the time and/or do not have the energy to involve their parents in their lives." This is an excuse. You make time for people and things in your life that are important to you, whether that's NFL, FB, shopping, travel, whatever. You'll *find* the time if it's important.
And I don't want this to come off as braggadocious, but I also feel the need to counter the argument that: "After all many have more education than their parents and do not really fit in with their friends." I have a terminal degree --- the chances that my kid is going to best me in the education department is impossible. If my DS dislikes my friends, which he does, it's simply because he doesn't like being around thinkers. I know this is true because he's said so. Sadly, I have also seen a number of my colleagues who have been in the same situation.
Further, this line of thinking directly refutes the very notion of loyalty and love. My parents barely have three years of college between them. We don't have a lot in common, but I still love them and stay in touch with them as much as possible. Why can I do it but my kid can't? Simple. I choose to, and he chooses *not* to.
LMLMN, please know that none of this is an attack on you. I know you are just presenting theories for us to dissect and discuss, and thank you very much for that! It's just I (and probably many of us here) have heard these excuses a thousand times. They don't hold water and it's time that we call them out for what they are: garbage. :(
They're just not that into us. It's been said many times but is still truth. I have always believed people will find time for what they think is important. It is OK that I do not matter to them so long as I matter to me. I found that by accepting this, I opened up my time and heart to others who treat me right, right now.
I think both parents and ACs have a hard time adjusting to the new adult to adult relationship. Any comment made by the parents (even opinions in a discussion) have much more impact on the AC until the AC actually accepts that he/she is an adult and the parents' opinion is actually only an opinion and not a mandate. The parents also have to adjust to the fact that the AC is in charge of their own life and any mistakes the AC makes are his/hers and are not up to the parents to 'fix'. This applies once the AC is self sufficient and if the AC is not self sufficient and is still doing things the parent disagrees with then it is time for the AC to be self sufficient and the parent needs to withdraw the help. IMHO :)
Fantine, when I take a look at our friends, and their family relationships, I would say this statistic correlates pretty much with the Smithsonian statistics.
On the other hand, if our neighbors look over the fence when we have a family gathering, they probably think; oh my, what a happy family. Lol ;)....We all act a little. It also helps having small children running around between us. It reminds us to behave and watch our mouths. But on a one to one basis,...it's sometimes a completely different story.
But, I think it helps to sometimes simply act like everything is all right, because sometimes, at least on some occasions, that acting can turn into reality. Thanks to the acting genes, we still get together for birthdays and holidays. So although, my relationship with my youngest son is far from good, we sometimes pretend it's good,...and for now, I'm satisfied with that.
If someone would ask me if I have an amicable relationship with my son, I guess I would say yes, just because we sometimes act like we do.....but the truth is; well, it's all here in this wonderful site. Your right about Luise being able to find a whole lot more folks for this forum!
"If someone would ask me if I have an amicable relationship with my son, I guess I would say yes, just because we sometimes act like we do..." --- oh, absolutely, Foot! And I'll be the first to admit, I lie my face off when someone asks me how my relationship is w/DS! Esp. since I have only lived in this town for 15 mos and no one here knows my history, there's no way I'm going into all the background of who/what/when/where/why . . . I work hard to keep my professional and personal lives separate.
And here's another thing --- one of the support people at my place of employment said that her DH routinely calls his mother the B word. (And this wife, my colleague, who is about 15 years younger than me, has told me in the past that her DH has a very strained relationship w/the mother.) When she repeated this fact yet again last week because she would not pay their cell phone *and* car insurance (the couple is right at 30 and have been on their own for a number of years), I told her I would have a hard time sharing a bed with a man who would talk that way about his own mother. She said it was a complex relationship, which I'm sure it is (and it *always* is!), but unless the mother is Joan Crawford, I'm going to bat for the mom. No mother deserves that.
I'm new here and I've been doing a lot of reading before posting as well as reading books. I just want to say how grateful I am for this safe place to talk. I am so very sorry for what has happened to all of you. I have lived through so much pain for 8+ years now that I have learned a few skills that help me to continue to survive. I hope to learn more from each of you. I no longer have any hope that my situation will change.My husband and I are not going to let an AC take the holidays from us. We decorate more, celebrate more, and longer than we ever have! Yes, it can be lonely. Yes, there are times when memories overwhelm us. Yes, we cry, we get angry, and we suffer a great deal. Perhaps the independence that our dc always sought turned out to be a lot more work that they ever imagined and they blame us that they have to work for a living. There is no way to know when they won't tell us. When I go to bed at night I rely on my faith to comfort me and I encourage each of you to rely on whatever you have in your life that gives you the most peace and comfort. You matter just as much as your AC does. Take care of yourself and if you can....let them go.
Welcome, LM . . . :) So glad to have another sister join our fold. :) Keep posting and sharing your valuable insight with us! You offer a lot of strength and comfort, and I hope that in some small way, we are able to reflect that back to you as well. :)
Something else that crosses my mind as I get older, is how little effort I want to put into making and keeping relationships with extended friends and family. What I mean is that when I was in my twenties and thirties, I was eager to find time for coffee dates with girl friends or movie night with friends, dinners out with couples, dinners at my home. As I get older and find that I have to work harder to see my kids since they live away right now (except for one) and I work to do things with him and I am working at a job I enjoy and with my spouse etc. I just wonder if my priorities have changed and what I enjoy has changed and so I'm more likely to spend time with just the hubby and kids?
I don't think that the internet and technology has made it easier for us to keep in touch, I honestly think it has made it harder. People live further and further away from their families so a get together barbecue which is usually short and sweet - turns into a week long stay at the inlaws house. I'm not saying that is bad but quite honestly a week stay with my best friend would leave me wanting to pull my hair out.
I truly believe that if we had stayed local to my inlaws, our relationship would have been better because we would have gotten together in shorter (easier to tolerate each other) doses. This is true with my own parents as well.
Having the internet seems like a good thing but - it also opens people up to saying things they might convey differently in a face to face conversation. It allows us to stay connected without really staying connected (if you know what I mean).
Facebook - I think is the biggest nightmare. Why? Because people use it to verbalize things in a passive aggressive way. And, others use it to find evidence as to why someone doesn't like them. I think you can twist just about anything in any manner. If someone's heart is hurt, and then they read something that the person who hurt them posted - they can turn that into just about anything in their own minds. Meaning - it just is a lot simpler to face people one on one and show your caring and your hurt.
Lastly, let's face it....we just didn't have these kinds of studies back in the 50's. Today we analyze just about anything and conclude just about anything.
I love my family! They can be annoying, and pains - but I still make the effort to be a part of their lives.