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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: Renet on November 09, 2010, 06:58:49 PM

Title: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Renet on November 09, 2010, 06:58:49 PM
Ugh....I think I am doing so good and then I do this to myself......

My D and SIL have not been here to Oregon 4 years.  We have lived in this home 25 years.
And yet they constantly fly from LA to Missouri to SIL parents home to be with his family.  They have spent the last 4 Christmas' there. They are high upper income.  We are high middle income.   They fly them out.  And fly to their home 3-4 times a year.  Always invited and welcomed.   We are not.  They only have 4 grandchildren.  2 of them are ours.   We have 16 grandchildren.  We can't afford to indulge them all.   SIL's parents can and do.   They are great people.  So there is not a jealousy thing.  But I think D likes that life style.  Being popular was always important.   SIL has a huge income.   They could afford to fly here.  We still offer.   They can not work it into the lives.  So they just went to SIL's  parents the end of Oct.  Spent Halloween with them.   I have access to SIL's mother's blog page.  I go there to see pictures of my grandchildren.   It kills me.  If I don't go  to the blog, I have no idea what is going on in my grandchildren's lives....
I just went to the blog.   And then I sit here and sobbed.   I have not see the little one in a year.  He is up and walking all over.  SIL mom bought them princess close and cow boy outfits to have pictures taken in SIL's Dad and brother are professional photographers.  The pictures are as cute as they can be...and then I scroll down and there is SIL' mom with her four grandchildren all wrapped up in her arms..... My two adore her and you can see it on their faces, you see it on hers as well.  This woman gets to be with these children at least 6 times a year.... They love her.  You can see that too.    They do not even know me.  And I love them every bit as much as she does.  I resent her.  Which is not fair, she is a very good person.  But she has what I want more than anything in the world...............and it kills me.................  She is a counselor who my daughter has gone to about our relationship.  I want to write her and tell her she has no idea how my D treats me.  (they adore my D)  I want to tell her that it is no fair that she gets a relationship with my grandchildren and I do not.........I want to tell her that seeing those pictures kills me and if she is a good counselor why would she do that (she has no idea that I see her blog)..... I want to tell her that her son did not even have the decency to call me when D was in the hospital having both of her babies.  That he text me when the last one was born.  I want to tell her that her son has pulled my daughter away from me.... I want to tell her I hate her....  Of course I wont.  And of course I do not.  It would be easier if she was not such a good woman.   I am grateful that my grandchildren have such good grandparents on that side... but I want to be in their lives too..............
Please someone lift me up tonight..............I do not know how I am suppose to do this, to continue to accept that my D and my GChildren are never going to be a part of my life...ever....that this is only going to get worse.....  I do not know how to grieve death when there is no casket.............
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: barelythere on November 09, 2010, 07:10:51 PM
Quote from: Renet on November 09, 2010, 06:58:49 PM
Ugh....I think I am doing so good and then I do this to myself......

My D and SIL have not been here to Oregon 4 years.  We have lived in this home 25 years.
And yet they constantly fly from LA to Missouri to SIL parents home to be with his family.  They have spent the last 4 Christmas' there. They are high upper income.  We are high middle income.   They fly them out.  And fly to their home 3-4 times a year.  Always invited and welcomed.   We are not.  They only have 4 grandchildren.  2 of them are ours.   We have 16 grandchildren.  We can't afford to indulge them all.   SIL's parents can and do.   They are great people.  So there is not a jealousy thing.  But I think D likes that life style.  Being popular was always important.   SIL has a huge income.   They could afford to fly here.  We still offer.   They can not work it into the lives.  So they just went to SIL's  parents the end of Oct.  Spent Halloween with them.   I have access to SIL's mother's blog page.  I go there to see pictures of my grandchildren.   It kills me.  If I don't go  to the blog, I have no idea what is going on in my grandchildren's lives....
I just went to the blog.   And then I sit here and sobbed.   I have not see the little one in a year.  He is up and walking all over.  SIL mom bought them princess close and cow boy outfits to have pictures taken in SIL's Dad and brother are professional photographers.  The pictures are as cute as they can be...and then I scroll down and there is SIL' mom with her four grandchildren all wrapped up in her arms..... My two adore her and you can see it on their faces, you see it on hers as well.  This woman gets to be with these children at least 6 times a year.... They love her.  You can see that too.    They do not even know me.  And I love them every bit as much as she does.  I resent her.  Which is not fair, she is a very good person.  But she has what I want more than anything in the world...............and it kills me.................  She is a counselor who my daughter has gone to about our relationship.  I want to write her and tell her she has no idea how my D treats me.  (they adore my D)  I want to tell her that it is no fair that she gets a relationship with my grandchildren and I do not.........I want to tell her that seeing those pictures kills me and if she is a good counselor why would she do that (she has no idea that I see her blog)..... I want to tell her that her son did not even have the decency to call me when D was in the hospital having both of her babies.  That he text me when the last one was born.  I want to tell her that her son has pulled my daughter away from me.... I want to tell her I hate her....  Of course I wont.  And of course I do not.  It would be easier if she was not such a good woman.   I am grateful that my grandchildren have such good grandparents on that side... but I want to be in their lives too..............
Please someone lift me up tonight..............I do not know how I am suppose to do this, to continue to accept that my D and my GChildren are never going to be a part of my life...ever....that this is only going to get worse.....  I do not know how to grieve death when there is no casket.............

Renet,
First of all, I wish I had perfect words for you.  This rich lifestyle is tempting for sure for the younger crowd.  It really is.  I think they miss out on some of the sweetest most fun middle of the roaders in the world.  It is their loss.  I can tell you for certain that if they did come to see you, you more than likely would be like me and not enjoy them in the least.  Small comfort but it is true. 

As far as his Mother goes.  I feel that she is being very unfair not to tell your Daughter that you exist and she should consider you too.  But, you never know what she's been told. (this would be to make her look great in her MIL's eyes)  I know you're hurting and I don't know what to say. I can pray and I can think of you and send good thoughts your way.  You keep your head high and know that you are good and worth it.  Take care you. :)
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Renet on November 09, 2010, 07:17:02 PM
Thanks Barely...... You said the one thing I need to remember....  It is horrible when she is here.   I never do anything right or good enough and I am a wreck trying to make everything perfect.   I use to be petrified to fly.  And had never flown by myself.  One time I begged her to let me come stay with the kids while her and hubby went somewhere.   I flew on a stupid plane, by myself...I was petrified beyond petrified...  At that she was so unkind to me once they got back.  I told her I had even flown by myself on a plane to see her family.  Her response was.  "So."   
You are right Barely.....you are so right.....   And even if I am there...she is thoughtless.....and unkind and that will never change.  She is 31.   She is who she is.......

Hugs Barely......hugs.....
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: barelythere on November 09, 2010, 07:21:23 PM
Quote from: Renet on November 09, 2010, 07:17:02 PM
Thanks Barely...... You said the one thing I need to remember....  It is horrible when she is here.   I never do anything right or good enough and I am a wreck trying to make everything perfect.   I use to be petrified to fly.  And had never flown by myself.  One time I begged her to let me come stay with the kids while her and hubby went somewhere.   I flew on a stupid plane, by myself...I was petrified beyond petrified...  At that she was so unkind to me once they got back.  I told her I had even flown by myself on a plane to see her family.  Her response was.  "So."   
You are right Barely.....you are so right.....   And even if I am there...she is thoughtless.....and unkind and that will never change.  She is 31.   She is who she is.......

Hugs Barely......hugs.....

Think about what she said!!  "So".  What a witch.  That is so cruel to say to you, "so" when you said, "I flew on a plane all by myself".   Some of these things hurt me to hear!!  Let's remember, we don't enjoy ourselves with these people even if they are our kids.
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: erma on November 09, 2010, 07:26:28 PM
aaahhhhhh.............(sigh) the life styles of the rich and famous! once again has reared its ugly head!  renet, i does feel like a death with no casket. my situation is with my ds instead of dd. however the pain is the same.  for me, for now anyway, i must pull inward. heal my heart. self preservation.  it doesn't mean forever, just for today. today i will hold on to my own heart. no one knows it better than me. my kids know how much i love them, and they know i always will. but today, i chose to let them go for now, and heal.
renet, please take time for yourself. be as kind to yourself as you are to your D.
hugs
:)
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Renet on November 09, 2010, 07:34:03 PM
Again, Barely....you are so right and wise.....  I would never have a friend who treats me as my child does.   Nor could I imagine treating another person that way.  And yet because they are our children we can excuse this??  No, we can't.

I have to tell you as well....  When I first read where you said what a witch...I was taken aback and quickly thought "well that was not very nice."  I felt defensive.  I do that with my husband and get mad when he says anything negative about her....   But Barely....right now I am tearing up, because for you to have said it was ok and it's true...she is a little witch...and she is horrible to me......   Oh my gosh, how healing is this place......  It's ok because you of all people understand......  And if I heard a child did that to you I would say the same......    On her 25th birthday I took her for a lovely lunch and I sat there crying, with tears running into my food because she was telling me she never wanted her children around me.  This was before she was even married....

Why do I want her to love me so badly......  Barely maybe this has to do with if your own child can not love you who can....Which is what I faced with a mother who did not love or want me......    My daughter knows how horrible my mother was to me and how sad my child hood was because of her rejection of me.  How much more cruel that makes my daughter.   She is a witch.   

I love you Barely....you words have hugged me big time!!!!!!!      :)
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Renet on November 09, 2010, 07:38:56 PM
Erma....your words too.... A big fat hug for my heart.    I know I can make it through.   I should have never looked at that blog.   Not knowing is better....... 
My gosh, I am so sorry we all have to go through this.   I am sorry your heart has to heart too Erma....Just like Barely there.....  I wish our children for one moment could see our hurt and pain like we do one another's.

I have lost site of the Awakening....I need to go back and read it.....   

I am sorry that it is our grief that brings us together but grateful I have you to mourn with................
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: barelythere on November 09, 2010, 07:42:59 PM
Quote from: Renet on November 09, 2010, 07:34:03 PM
Again, Barely....you are so right and wise.....  I would never have a friend who treats me as my child does.   Nor could I imagine treating another person that way.  And yet because they are our children we can excuse this??  No, we can't.

I have to tell you as well....  When I first read where you said what a witch...I was taken aback and quickly thought "well that was not very nice."  I felt defensive.  I do that with my husband and get mad when he says anything negative about her....   But Barely....right now I am tearing up, because for you to have said it was ok and it's true...she is a little witch...and she is horrible to me......   Oh my gosh, how healing is this place......  It's ok because you of all people understand......  And if I heard a child did that to you I would say the same......    On her 25th birthday I took her for a lovely lunch and I sat there crying, with tears running into my food because she was telling me she never wanted her children around me.  This was before she was even married....

Why do I want her to love me so badly......  Barely maybe this has to do with if your own child can not love you who can....Which is what I faced with a mother who did not love or want me......    My daughter knows how horrible my mother was to me and how sad my child hood was because of her rejection of me.  How much more cruel that makes my daughter.   She is a witch.   

I love you Barely....you words have hugged me big time!!!!!!!      :)

Renet,
I am so sorry I called her a witch.  I should not have done that. I am the same way, can't stand someone talking about my loved ones like that.  So sorry...knee jerk reaction, emphasis on jerk.

I think there's a pattern here.  I too had a horrible childhood and all these things throw me right back to when I felt that way as a child.  I think it's made up more sensitive and not able to stand up for ourselves.  Also, I tend to blow every little thing way out of proportion in my heart.  I am very tender hearted so each thing they do destroys me.  I think that's at the bottom of all this. 
Harden my heart, click that brain into gear, barely!!
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: jill on November 09, 2010, 07:54:21 PM
Hi Renet,
Just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you.  I know how much you hurt when the other grandparents are foremost in your grandchild's life.  It is like a knife in your heart.  My daughter used to say when my gd was a baby that she trusted me to look after her more than anyone, and now she does not want me in her life.  The other grandparents are the "wealthy grandparents", and always spend more on her than I can afford.
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: barelythere on November 09, 2010, 08:02:05 PM
Quote from: jill on November 09, 2010, 07:54:21 PM
Hi Renet,
Just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you.  I know how much you hurt when the other grandparents are foremost in your grandchild's life.  It is like a knife in your heart.  My daughter used to say when my gd was a baby that she trusted me to look after her more than anyone, and now she does not want me in her life.  The other grandparents are the "wealthy grandparents", and always spend more on her than I can afford.

We have hit on a common theme.  The wealthy folks.
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Renet on November 09, 2010, 08:04:27 PM
No, it's good that you called her that, because it helped me to see how safe this place is for me.  No one else can do that or I get defensive.  I do not have to be defensive on here.   All of you understand.    She is horrible to me.  Horrible.   It is abusive what she does.  She is a butch to me...and that word is even worse.  But she is.  I think admitting that to anyone else makes me feel like a failure.  She makes me feel like a failure.  Like I am not good enough.  That is what my mother use to do.  On here I can admit that because all of us understand.   We are not failures.  We have a child who sadly is failing.
I am tender hearted too.  I am also very forgiving.   Sometimes I wonder if D sees that in me as a weakness and she wants me to be strong, no matter what....   What is really strange is when she was younger I worried about her because she was too attached to me.   I lost her dad in an accident.  He suffered brain damage and I had to leave him to protect my children.   She would cry and say "what if I lose my mom too...I couldn't do that, I would die."  And then I remarried....  I think she hates me because I could not make her dad better and then she feels like she lost me too.   It was tragic what happened, but you know what....You grow up.  You forgive people for not being perfect or what you think perfection is.

We are good people aren't we Barley.   We try harder than most people would.  We don't want to see others hurt like we have.  We have good generous hearts...that sadly our troubled children can not see.....  They are the ones who truly have lost....Not us.  They have lost because they quit feeling.   We feel and that's why we are on here......

Thank you a million times Barley....tonight you have helped me get through the heartache...... Hugs for ever hugs......
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: barelythere on November 09, 2010, 08:15:15 PM
Quote from: Renet on November 09, 2010, 08:04:27 PM
No, it's good that you called her that, because it helped me to see how safe this place is for me.  No one else can do that or I get defensive.  I do not have to be defensive on here.   All of you understand.    She is horrible to me.  Horrible.   It is abusive what she does.  She is a butch to me...and that word is even worse.  But she is.  I think admitting that to anyone else makes me feel like a failure.  She makes me feel like a failure.  Like I am not good enough.  That is what my mother use to do.  On here I can admit that because all of us understand.   We are not failures.  We have a child who sadly is failing.
I am tender hearted too.  I am also very forgiving.   Sometimes I wonder if D sees that in me as a weakness and she wants me to be strong, no matter what....   What is really strange is when she was younger I worried about her because she was too attached to me.   I lost her dad in an accident.  He suffered brain damage and I had to leave him to protect my children.   She would cry and say "what if I lose my mom too...I couldn't do that, I would die."  And then I remarried....  I think she hates me because I could not make her dad better and then she feels like she lost me too.   It was tragic what happened, but you know what....You grow up.  You forgive people for not being perfect or what you think perfection is.

We are good people aren't we Barley.   We try harder than most people would.  We don't want to see others hurt like we have.  We have good generous hearts...that sadly our troubled children can not see.....  They are the ones who truly have lost....Not us.  They have lost because they quit feeling.   We feel and that's why we are on here......

Thank you a million times Barley....tonight you have helped me get through the heartache...... Hugs for ever hugs......

There is another common theme here and it is our tender heartedness.  I don't know what it is about that that causes others close to us to think it's weakness.  It isn't.  It's compassion learned through being strong in the face of immense pain.  I do think it is a problem for them, though.  Let's try to work on that.  We are woman, hear us roar.....(little bitty meow)
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Renet on November 09, 2010, 08:16:08 PM
My oldest son also married someone whose parents are very wealthy.   I gave up trying to compete, because thee is no competention.....  My oldest married a girl whose parents live in Dubai.  They are millionaires.  Last year for Christmas I made them all sock monkeys with a special little heart on each one of them...and a letter to go along with each one of them.... I never heard one thank you. I am sure they were thrown in some corner.   However, my DIL is very sweet to call me and talk or have the kids SKYPE.   I love her so I try and over look some things. 
My son who I am best friends with, married a little gal whose parents are just like us.....Her mom and I have become dear friends...So down to earth....  When DS and DIL's first baby was born they both asked if I would come to SF to be there.  (they knew how much Daughter had hurt me not even calling when her babies were born...)....DIL's mother and I hardly knew each other but we shared a hotel room for 10 days because our grandson had problems at birth.  I love her like a sister.  And this was her oldest DD and her first grandchild.   It figures that the one child who is so good to me would marry someone whose mother is now my dear friend.   I have one child left to get married.  She has promised to marry someone who comes from poverty!!   :)
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: barelythere on November 09, 2010, 08:19:09 PM
Quote from: Renet on November 09, 2010, 08:16:08 PM
My oldest son also married someone whose parents are very wealthy.   I gave up trying to compete, because thee is no competention.....  My oldest married a girl whose parents live in Dubai.  They are millionaires.  Last year for Christmas I made them all sock monkeys with a special little heart on each one of them...and a letter to go along with each one of them.... I never heard one thank you. I am sure they were thrown in some corner.   However, my DIL is very sweet to call me and talk or have the kids SKYPE.   I love her so I try and over look some things. 
My son who I am best friends with, married a little gal whose parents are just like us.....Her mom and I have become dear friends...So down to earth....  When DS and DIL's first baby was born they both asked if I would come to SF to be there.  (they knew how much Daughter had hurt me not even calling when her babies were born...)....DIL's mother and I hardly knew each other but we shared a hotel room for 10 days because our grandson had problems at birth.  I love her like a sister.  And this was her oldest DD and her first grandchild.   It figures that the one child who is so good to me would marry someone whose mother is now my dear friend.   I have one child left to get married.  She has promised to marry someone who comes from poverty!!   :)

What a blessing!!! Victory!!  Love it....nighty night, dear friends and fellow problem solvers.  Love you all. Onward to tomorrow.   :-[
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Renet on November 09, 2010, 08:21:13 PM
Roarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr    well, yeah....all roar...no bite......   It's funny, but I am strong, independent and fearless around most people.... but not this one child......she brings out the worst in me......because, you know why because....Because she refuses to see the good in me......  Seriously I could be perfect and she would still find something wrong....   gads......  I would hate anyone else who was like that to me......  Who knows maybe that is all we have between us.....  I want her to love me...she wants to hate me.   What a sad way to base a relationship.....

Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Renet on November 09, 2010, 08:22:51 PM
Good night Barley!!!!   I am eternally grateful for your words tonight....You have helped me through the pain......

Hugs dear friend...hugs.... ;D
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: dablacks on November 10, 2010, 04:46:35 AM
I have been reading your story and noticed that a few of us had very unhappy childhoods, myself included.  Is this a pattern?  What is the link here? 

My mother is still alive and I live 1000 miles away, after my father died 3 years ago I took over all her banking, saved her house from going under, and call every day, sometimes twice.  What do I receive in return?  She is pretty much ungrateful most of the time. 

My daughter has said she doesn't want to hear any details, told me flat out she doesn't like grandma.  I told her I do it so someday I will never look back and regret any of my decisions. But I see  my neediness here of always wanting approval.  That shook me up to see so many others in the same cycle.  We grew up with uncaring, critical parents, we had kids that we adored and made sure they had self esteem and NOW they look at us as weak needy people.  We have to break this cycle and look at our kids for what they are. They could be more like their selfish grandparents then we want to admit. Not very nice people, and if they were strangers or someone we worked with, we would have the good sense to stay away from people like this and NEVER let them know what we are REALLY thinking.
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Miss Understood on November 10, 2010, 04:59:54 AM
Quote from: Renet on November 09, 2010, 07:17:02 PM
You said the one thing I need to remember....  It is horrible when she is here.   I never do anything right or good enough and I am a wreck trying to make everything perfect. 

If this is not such a real statement. My DH and Two DD's always told me they had a better time when DS wasn't around and DIL who sat there critiquing everyone and slamming their friends and other family members...DS picking fights, picking apart his sisters and the smug DIL sitting there enjoying the chaos and doing the silent passive aggression towards our family. I was so blind to it...probably because I spent my time trying to make everyone happy and just happy to have my whole family together and my GD's. I miss my GD and Son and even DIL terribly...but as memory serves me, it wasn't always great. But...that's not the point. Nobody is perfect, NO one person can be at fault for anything and at the end of the day....it doesn't have to be a Walton reunion or Rockwell perfect family....It's our families...good or bad...happy or sad...fights or no fights...it is what it is.
I am sorry to hear they spend so much time with the other IL's. You mention Counselor (MIL is HER's) That is bizarre...and must I add that I doubt she is telling her all true factual stuff with her. She is most likely sharing things that are embellished to make her look better in MIL's eyes and feel sorry for her. MIL should know that....but she is probably feeling empowered by their relationship and doesn't have any intent to change it right now...why? Because it is working for her. We get complacent in our lives and when something is working...we don't mess with it.
Reason I know this....
My DS and DIL did some disturbing and hurtful things to other people (her family and my ex's family and a couple of their friends) Mostly bad mouthing them, small lies, the phone would ring while they were at our house and they wouldn't answer and then made a negative comment about whoever it was. I knew that it was wrong and I wanted to pipe up and say, "Hey...that's not right!" I did once and then I got the dirty look from DIL and then a few minutes later...DS decided it was time to leave (an hour earlier)SO, I shut my mouth....listened and said nothing...Because it was working for me.  At least that is what I thought. Little did I know...they were doing the same story telling, slander, cut downs, etc. about us to whoever. We were the joke! Now...we are nothing, just a cut off family because they can't face reality and are living in some delusional world they created.
Delusional World: When someone makes up a scenario about their life and focuses on creating it and living it and then believes it. It's hard to live the Delusional World until something is strong enough to push you out of it. Your own will won't get you there unless you are mature and healthy minded enough to understand the difference and if that was the case....they wouldn't be in this state to begin with.
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: JaneF on November 10, 2010, 11:19:19 AM
WOW! I don't know what to say first. Renet I am so sorry you have to go through this difficulty. I have the same issue only with DS and DIL. As I read through these replies I noticed that a lot of us had the common thread, unhappy childhood, critical parent etc. Hmmm. I am sorry Renet that your DD treats you this way, maybe the statement that our kids are more like our parents than we realize is correct???? And yes, it seems we are tender hearted, also a common thread. It IS hard to not get to see grandkids and know they are with other grandparents all the time, I've dealt with that for 11 years now. It hurts, I know, but I recently made a choice not to dwell on it anymore. Had to let it go. I don't understand meanness in some folks, never will. I have found in the short time I've been a member here, there are some great women who offer kindness and support, and it's been a blessing. Best to you all.
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: jill on November 10, 2010, 12:24:09 PM
Dablacks,
Your post is so true.  My odd reminds me so much of my late mother.  I won't say my childhood was unhappy but she was very critical, and I tried my hardest never to criticize my own children.  Now all they do is criticize me, and nothing I do or say is right.  And I want their approval so much, just as I wanted hers.   But she did the best she could, just as I have done, and my kids are doing today, but I never treated her the way my dds treat me.

By the way anyone watching Dr. Phil this afternoon?   It is all about MIL and DIL problems.
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: dablacks on November 10, 2010, 02:08:38 PM
Hi Jill,
It's a lot to think about.  I have seen time and time again situations where the mother deserts her children and when they are adults, they try to find her and try to prove to themselves that they were loved.  This is always the way.  I sometimes watch young mothers giving in to their children on simple things and see myself in them. 

It shocks me when I am talking to my daughter and think everything is going fine, I mention my roses are perfect this year and she will blurb out "It's always about you"  What, I say, I'm just chit chatting with you, idle conversation. What are you talking about. Blah, Blah Blah. 

After this last trip, I am convinced I will NOT let the grandbaby become a pawn in this relationship.  I live 1000 miles away and right now at this minute I am very happy I do.
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: LaurieS on November 10, 2010, 02:55:03 PM
Quote from: dablacks on November 10, 2010, 02:08:38 PM
After this last trip, I am convinced I will NOT let the grandbaby become a pawn in this relationship.  I live 1000 miles away and right now at this minute I am very happy I do.
Sometimes it feels like 1000 deep breaths away
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: MotherOf3 on November 10, 2010, 08:36:15 PM
Just want to say that I know how much it breaks your heart to not be with your grandchildren.  Sometimes you have to let go in order to not live a life of pain.  Every time you see a picture it is like your heart is being torn out again and again. 

I know that it can hardly compare but I broke off a 10 year relationship in the last year because I was not being treated right, or kindly, and for awhile I was looking at his profile on social sites.  I got to the point where the pain outweighed the pleasure.  That's what I've read is what it takes for a person to change their situation.  When the pain outweighs the pleasure.  It hurt more to see pictures of him doing the things I had wanted to do with him than it did to see him at all.

I stopped looking.  The pain is just about gone, only a lingering regret that he couldn't treat me like I mattered to him and wasn't just a convenience.

He has come back into my life twice in the last year, trying to start up again.  I find that I don't have any reason to at all since nothing he has said indicates that he is prepared to change.  He got angry and sent me a picture.  I know him and I know that it would be hurtful.  I didn't look at it because I know the pain it would cause.  My need to not be hurt trumps my curiosity even.

Just letting you know that if you keep looking at the pictures, the wound likely won't heal.  It is being opened afresh over and over.
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: justdontunderstand on November 11, 2010, 02:34:27 PM
Reading the posts about estrangements that include grandchildren just break my heart. It is one thing when adults can't get it together enough to get along but when they deny children the love and attention of grandparents who are ready, willing and able to provide it--it is just terribly sad.

I do not have grandchildren but I shudder to think that if we cannot resolve the estrangement with DIL, and she and DS have children--then this awful story could become our story!
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: LaurieS on November 11, 2010, 04:16:15 PM
You and I are on identical paths JDU... I'm trying my hardest to set my boundaries and allow my DIL  to set hers, and we need to get it all straightened out before the grandchild comes.  Not that she is even pregnant.. but the writing is on the wall and I'm trying hard to prevent things from happening.  On a good note.. I have followed others and I do not initiate contact.. now I'm getting phone calls up to 3 times a week from my son.  My DIL wants to badly to be left out of anything so I think she'll come around and began to understand that there is a time and place for everything.
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Tara on November 12, 2010, 12:56:41 AM
Laurie,

can you say more about not initiating contact?
How long have you been doing that?

Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: justdontunderstand on November 12, 2010, 08:05:35 AM
Laurie,
I have noticed similarities in our stories through your posts. I do not initiate contact with DIL either because I did that for over four years and was continually disappointed. I cannot take that rejection any more. I am done with extending myself to be met with cold silence.

Every unanswered telephone call, email, text message---- every gift that went unacknowledged has chipped away at my open heart.  Being ignored is in some ways more difficult than open hostility. At least when someone is openly hostile toward you there is dialogue. It may not be productive dialogue but you have something to go on to try and understand what that person is thinking. Being ignored just leaves you with rejection with a capital R. After a while you just want to protect yourself from further hurt by standing down and not setting yourself up for further rejection. My heart is closing off the need to be liked by someone who cannot be bothered to even try and get to know me. If DIL were not married to my DS, I would walk away completely. The complication is that she is always looming in the background and every interaction with DS is interpreted through how it might affect his relationship with her. It is an impossible and unsustainable situation for my family...yet we try to keep the door open for our DS.

The situation is so very, very sad.
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: LaurieS on November 12, 2010, 09:10:31 AM
Hi Tara... I believe  it was Hope who I first heard mention the 'no initiation' clause.  I always politely respond when I'm called, and if I miss a call I will return it.  I reply to  emails but never send the first one.. not even a funny.  It's all in their power to speak to us when they choose.  After trying this I thought you know it has some merit... my son began calling us with more frequency.. DIL.. not so much :)  When he did call he was more forthcoming with information to where before  it  was like pulling teeth.  When he calls here I've noticed that he will ask about his brother, sister and even grandparents.  There seems to be less tension in his voice which to me says that there is less in his life.

That should have been good enough for me, but I had to test it.  I sent him along with others all on a  BCC, photos of his brother and sister with their bf and gf.. An email was fired back with photos of him and DIL from the event that we were sorta uninvited to.  I did not respond as I thought either someone is trying to prove a point or just plain stupid.  My ds called a couple days later and I asked who had sent the photos.. since he didn't know they had been sent it was my DIL. Since civility is not in her vocabulary I slapped myself and said ok back to the method that was working.

My DIL is very upset that we will not spend time with her extended family. She doesn't get it when I say that there is a time and place.  Since I finally put my foot  down and said no I will not be forced into a situation that I do not want it's become a game with her, which was what led to her declaring to my son that they would simply not tell us that her parents would be involved with our visit until we arrived.  So the fact that I am standing firm concerning our boundaries and not initiating contact..  it's  taken some of the fun out of her game.
Title: reconsidering initiating contact with our Ds and Dils
Post by: Tara on November 12, 2010, 04:28:21 PM
So that is very interesting Laurie.  Thank you
I wonder if you feel comfortable telling me what your thoughts were  about setting boundaries re: seeing your ds and dil
with her parents and extended family?  I do get what you mean that there is a time and place.

I'm finding this very helpful.  Have definitely decided I'm going to try out the no initiating rule.

Along these Lines I'm wondering what I should do when I get back from India.   Within a week she will be having the babies / c section. I wanted to go and visit when they were born.  I was going to go visit this weekend but once they started being mean to me
I politely cancelled the plan.  Since then she says she prefers we wait till she gets home from the hospital and they have a
chance to adjust to the babies.  When do you ever adjust to twins?  I already have grand children who are twins and it is
a tremendous adjustment that most people don't adjust to for a long time!  So going along with this not initiating do I just
wait for them to contact me re:  birth.  Then not ask about  visiting till I'm invited?

with gratitude to WW

Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: LaurieS on November 12, 2010, 09:20:22 PM
Tara, you may be sorry you asked.. but this felt good to get off my chest... here goes..

Since my DIL wants her family involved every time we try to spend time with the kids, it was pretty easy to draw  that line and stand firm.  When we have plans with ds and dil and suddenly her parents are tossed into the mix, we excuse ourselves and politely but firmly say that we will make future plans to see them.  To me it was simple.. We will spend time with her family when we choose to, not when my DIL declares.  Since this has happened time and time again, I don't know when I would want to see her parents, it's like they've been unknowingly used as a sharp instrument to induce pain.  At this point it's probable her parents don't particularly want to see us either as I'm sure it's been presented to them that we are not attending anything based on the fact that they will be present.  And it's not solely their presence, it's the type of control that my DIL is trying to obtain, it's like she is forcing the issue and won't stop until she gets her way.  I feel that she has latched onto this because she found something that irritates me to the core.  We do not infringe on her time with her parents, and I think my ds should expect the same.

Never did I think our relationship with our DIL would evolve into this.  I am polite and nice to her.. when she comes into town I take her for lunch and pedicures and  do all the girl things that I do with my own daughter.  We've been generous with gifts, and financial aid (that seems to be a sore spot with DIL, she thought we were  greedy for expecting loans to be paid, we would not agree to the loan until a auto payment withdrawal was set up). Life with my dil seems to be fine as long as we keep our distance.  After 3 years of this, I am bothered by the fact that mutual respect has diminished.  Another boundary.. I will not be the shield.  I no longer make excuses for her (or my son for that matter)..not to my kids, or my son's grandparents.   I will no longer cover for her when she displays lack of common courtesies, no longer will I use her age as an excuse for poor manners, she is going to have to accept responsibility and the consequences of her own actions pertaining to her husbands family as she would in any aspect of her life.

In the end, I've simply learned to say No... who was it here that said, "NO can be a complete sentence"?  That is my boundary.. I do not attempt to change their minds or views, but likewise they now have a clear understanding that they will not change mine either, I'm not going to sulk, cry, beg or plead.  I am not going to pay her to be tolerant of us.  I'm no longer going to forbid my other son and my daughter from speaking up, when she insults them by her lack of caring. I will not be the middle man with intentions of being the peace maker. 

I know that I sound like I despise my DIL and I really don't.... She is part of the reason why my son was able to fulfill his military dreams.... she was there to keep him on track.  I've witnessed how much she loves her family I know she is capable of expanding her world to include that of her husbands.  She may change or come around in the future, but in the meantime I needed to say that I have done all I can to earn her respect without losing self-respect.
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Tara on November 12, 2010, 10:51:41 PM
Laurie,

Thank you so much for sharing your story and process of dealing with your DIL (and other family members). 

It is quite powerful and I will be reflecting on how you are dealing with the issues of setting boundaries.  Thank you
again.  What a great idea to set up auto withdrawl for loans. Have not heard or thought of that except with professional loans.
Great way to sidestep future problems.


"We do not infringe on her time with her parents, and I think my ds should expect the same". 
                Yes,  I can respect and appreciate this.


You know, sometimes I don't feel I can say no to my son.  I'm trying to understand  'walking on egg shells"  because I know I feel like that alot with DS and DIL and I think not being able to say no w/o feeling guilty is a big part of it.    Like just recently not spending a day traveling each way to visit dil and ds when were acting defensive and unkind was a huge step for me. (I was very polite when postponing the trip)  I'm not quite the wimp I make myself out to be, I have been addressing ds's behavior of late and calmly.  I  appreciate that you are polite and respectful but hold onto your own wishes and boundaries. 

So much to think about I will read this over and reflect some more this week.


     
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Faithlooksup on November 28, 2010, 04:55:21 PM
Dear Renet,  Yes, I would tell the other Mother everything--she may not know and if she is a counselor--she just needs to know that you are alive, that you are hurting and that you want to be a part of your Grandchildrens life as well.  Tell her you have not seen them for years now and ask her if she would happen to know just why...  However, I would NOT tell her about reading her blog-just yet...
This is not a death yet Renet--so go after Mom and find out what is going on, be frank and to the point yet gentle and kind.  Write to her and let us know what happens...
Blessings and HUGS,
Faith
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Keys Girl on December 08, 2010, 10:42:30 AM
Dear Renet, I wouldn't tell the other mother anything.  It could be misinterpreted, repeated and gossiped about for ages.


To go back to the subject line, it is a type of grief that we aren't familiar with.......our generation didn't necessarily enjoy the company of our family members but there was strong pressure to at least put up with them and not offend in such an aggressive fashion as outright rejection.

The only thing I know is that I'm going to keep living my own life in my own way, I don't yet have any grandchildren and even if the day comes when I do, I may never see them.  I've started writing up stories about my life to leave behind in case the day comes when they will not be able to speak to me but will be able to learn about me from these writings.  I dredge up the memories and the great times come flooding back so it helps me with the feelings of loss.

Elizabeth Edwards has certainly left us with a great example on how to live graciously in the midst of great pain and suffering (from cancer and her husband's indiscretions).  She's a great role model and I hope to carry on in her style.

Good luck,
KG

Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Pen on December 08, 2010, 12:07:52 PM
Elizabeth Edwards was a class act, for sure.

I'm not sure this rejection of family is just a modern-day thing...my DF didn't know how to accept my DDD when she was diagnosed and her disabilities became obvious. He and his wife, my SM, although well-educated professionals who should know better, have always dismissed her as being beneath their concern. They are PC enough to be stealthy about it, but their feelings have been made known in other ways. We've experienced rejection due to DDD's disabilities from people who were our good friends previously - some were quite honest about not being able to handle anyone who wasn't attractive and able.

How sad for all when some people narrow their world view so strictly as to only include those who meet their impossibly high standards.

Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: LaurieS on December 08, 2010, 09:38:39 PM
Ladies.. this is an FYI - Renet is not a member of these boards at this time.  You are always welcome to post in general, but directing the postings to her will most likely go unread.
Title: Re: How do I grieve this death
Post by: Faithlooksup on December 10, 2010, 12:55:01 PM
Oh for cryin out loud....I didn't know that.....So I am writing to a wall huh?????  She should become a member :o