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"Welcome to WiseWomenUnite.com -- When adult children marry and leave home, life can sometimes get more complex instead of simpler.  Being a mother-in-law or daughter-in-law can be tough.  How do we extend love and support to our mothers-in-law, adult children, daughters-in-law, sons-in-law, and grandchildren without interfering?  What do we do when there are communication problems?  How can we ask for help when we need it without being a burden?  And how do our family members feel about these issues?  We invite you to join our free forum, read some posts... and when you're ready...share your challenges and wisdom."


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Messages - Scoop

31
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: B-day Epic Fail
October 09, 2012, 08:03:31 AM
You know what Pen, if this is a lost cause, then you have nothing left to lose.  That can be pretty freeing.

So call up DS and tell him that you're disappointed that he didn't even have a CARD for his Dad's birthday.  What's he going to do?  Not call you?  Be unpleasant at a family dinner?  Huh?  Feel free to tell him that too! 

Can you imagine?  "I'm not afraid of you.  You're acting like a brat and as your mother, I will ALWAYS call you on it. What are you going to do?  Call us LESS than never?  Ha!"

Sorry they're being stinky Pen, you deserve better.
32
Well, we're back home and we actually had an OK weekend (shocking, I know!)

It actually started off all wrong.  When I got home from work, the dog pooped and then was sick in her crate - it was disgusting!  Then in the car on the way to the IL's, DH passed another car on a double-solid line.  I was FURIOUS - seriously, over the top FURIOUS.  I waited until DD was asleep and then I 'told' him what-for, through clenched teeth.  You don't have to worry when I'm yelling, but when I'm talking quietly, through clenched teeth - WATCH OUT.  It brought up the fact that here I am, dreading the visit to his family, and it's in HIS power to make it easier, but what does he do?  A bone-head move like that, making me shakingly upset before we even get there.  (For the record, my education is civil engineering, I took the highway design course, I KNOW that the engineers who designed the highway, put the solid lines there for a reason - SAFETY.  If the line is solid, it means you can't see oncoming traffic.  For a double-solid, it means that oncoming traffic can't see you either.)

The good part of the weekend was that A) MIL did in fact give me a 'belated' birthday gift - it appeared to be from her 'stash' of 'extra' gifts, but I didn't care, I was happy to get it and I wore it all weekend.  And B) she cooked her turkey last week, but kept some out for me, because she knows that I like turkey on toast for breakfast.  THAT really touched me.  She's never remembered any of my favourites before.  I made a big fuss every morning about how lucky I was to get 3 days of turkey on toast for breakfast instead of just one.

The bad part was that MIL did not have patience with DD and other DGD.  They were just being squealing girls and MIL complained that they were too loud.  Instead of letting them play downstairs and the grown ups staying upstairs, MIL went downstairs to make a phone call!  On the cordless phone!

Unfortunately, it stressed DH out and he was 'hard' on DD, to get her to calm down and she ended up crying on her birthday over it.

The best part was when I took the kids to the park and BIL and DN showed up, he sat next to me and said "So ... is the MIL in a good mood today?"  And I realized that it wasn't just me.

It's over, it wasn't bad amd I'm considering another visit before Christmas, because DH's Grandma isn't well, and it might be nice to visit her 'one last time'.
33
Quote from: elsieshaye on October 05, 2012, 07:33:34 AM
Good luck, Scoop.  I hope it's a peaceful weekend and goes smoothly.

I apologize for not remembering, but what is the issue with your MIL and gifts?

Thanks Elsieshaye.

I had a whole list of present 'grudges' typed up, and it made me remember that my MIL is not evil, just clueless. She has definite narcissistic tendencies and thinks that everyone likes what SHE likes.  And it's not personal, because she can't manage to give ANYONE (but herself) good gifts.

As for whether she uses my birthday gift as a weapon on me, well, it's on her conscience, not mine.
34
We're heading out to the IL's for Thanksgiving weekend tonight.  Wish me luck & PATIENCE, I'm afraid I'm going to need it.

I can't even ask for advice on how to respond to particular situations, because my MIL always surprises me with the baloney she comes up with.

Here are my wishes for this weekend:

1 - first and foremost, that DD has a Happy Birthday
2 - that the IL's get her an age / interest / size appropriate present
3 - that MIL respects that DD specifically requested a pumpkin pie for her birthday "cake"
4 - that we spend lots of time with SIL, BIL & the DN's
5 - that MIL doesn't give us an anniversary present, nor a belated birthday present for me
35
Grab Bag / Re: Send a gift or not??
October 03, 2012, 05:36:56 PM
Nikncon - when you get to the point of exchaning gift cards, THAT's when it's time to stop the gifts!

I would send her a message in the New Year saying "Let's keep our money in our own pockets this year and only exchange well wishes for birthdays from now on."
36
Grab Bag / Re: Send a gift or not??
October 03, 2012, 06:17:08 AM
nikncon - when I think about it, my parents never exchanged gifts with their siblings, except maybe at 'significant number' birthdays, and nothing was thought about it either way.

About 10 years ago, my DH and I spoke with our siblings and said "how about we don't do birthday gifts anymore?"  And everyone agreed that it was a good idea.  We still send a card and good wishes, and usually include a scratch-off lottery ticket (for fun).

The only reason to give your sister a gift this year is if she's already given one to you for your birthday.  Then you should reciprocate and make a deal for next year.

37
I saw this in a totally different way.

To me, your DS was showing you what his life is really like.  It seems to me that in order to survive life with his DW and her family, you have to be TOUGH.  That common courtesy is considered "wimpy".  And honestly, it explains why you haven't gotten as much 'face time' with them.  You've been courteous and DS's IL's have been forceful.

I think in this case, you can certainly put some force behind a second request... i.e. "DS, since common courtesy didn't work with you, let's try "forceful and confident" ... YOU and DIL know this town better than I do, so pick a restaurant for us to go to, to celebrate Dad's birthday.  I don't want to spend more than $28 per plate.  I expect an answer by the end of today.  Thanks.  Mom."

38
Two things -

1 - Do you find that you're sadder, in general, in the fall?  A lot of people are.  So maybe, now that you see 2 years in a row of being upset about your IL's during the Fall and the lead-up to the Holidays, you can push some of it off as "seasonal". 

2 - I think it's time for you to pull back from the IL's.  Some space in your relationship might help things, either you'll find that you can handle her more in smaller doses, or you'll find that DH doesn't want to see or hear from her either.

If it upsets you to talk to her, then don't.  And you don't have to stomp your feet and say "I REFUSE TO TALK TO THAT WOMAN".  You can just be "too busy" to talk.  At first, you'll probably have to be "too busy right now" with everyone.  But you can return the calls of the people YOU want to speak with.  If MIL calls and leaves a message, tell DH that his mom called. 

Right now, you're the buffer between your DH and your MIL, so of course he wants you to stay in that position.  But what's wrong with their relationship that he needs a buffer?

I've stepped WAY BACK from a relationship with my MIL.  I've left it up to DH and MIL/FIL to work on their relationship with each other, and you know what?  It has settled down to the lowest level possible.  He doesn't call them to share good news, he doesn't send them pictures, and he doesn't suggest that we visit them.  We haven't seen them since last Christmas (they live 4 hrs away by car).  That being said, MIL doesn't call our house, she calls DH's cell phone during work hours, and they haven't visited us since June 2011.  I'm also pretty sure that MIL blames me, but I certainly don't feel it on MY conscience.

I suggest that you step back from being in the middle of them and see what kind of relationship they ACTUALLY have with each other.  Of course, you have to "allow" him have the relationship HE wants, without blocking him or ragging on him either.  Detach, detach, detach.
39
I agree with Doe, with the addition of letting you know about "change back" behaviour.

Whenever you make a change in a relationship that has gotten 'comfortable' for the other party, you should expect them to want you to 'change back'.  Some people will even push pretty hard in order to get you to 'change back'.  You have to be STRONG.  If you relent, it's like training dogs and kids, they'll realize that they just have to do xxx LONGER in order to get you to comply.

There's also something called an 'extinction burst'.  When training dogs and people to change their behaviour, they will often push hardest just before giving up.  You have to be strong and wait it out.
40
We've been on family vacations with my P's and my DB and his family and it was a lot of fun.  I think the trick was that no one EXPECTED to spend all of our time together.  We did plan that every night we would have supper together to talk about our day.  When DH and I were younger, with no kids, we knew that my P's wanted to spend their days with the "littles" and then they spent some evenings with us.  When we had DD, the DN's were older, so they wanted to go and do 'teen' things.  My Mom was able to split her time between all of us and we loved it.

We often have big family weekends at my Mom's cottage (I think our max number was 20, including Aunt, Uncle, cousins, spouses & kids).  And we don't squabble.  In fact, it's a BLAST. 

However, I would not be able to go on vacation with my IL's.  My MIL would want to control every aspect of it.  She would be visibly bored doing what we wanted to do, and ANGRY if we didn't want to do what she wanted to do - but would not fathom the option of each doing our own thing.  We would want to have supper too early.  We would not be 'dressed up' enough.  I've heard too many horror stories from DH about how it is traveling with his Mom (seriously, they went to Disney when DH and SIL were teens and MIL wouldn't let them go on rides that SHE didn't want to go on).
41
Smiles - what prompted this?  Did you talk to DS again?  Or are you spinning your wheels?

I'm going to assume that you talked to DS again ( ;))  What did he say to bring this on?

I wouldn't be afraid to put it out there "Don't you WANT to spend "grown up" time with us?" or "We can stay in and watch TV at home, we're going to 'your-city' to see you.  Why do you have to go out THAT night?"

Could it be that they've bought tickets for something for that night, or made other plans, knowing they could count on you?  Or else, could it be that they don't get out together much, and as such, it's not that they DON'T want to spend time with you, it's that they want to spend time with each other MORE?

Stick to your boundaries Smiles, I think the 'no babysitting while the kids are sleeping' rule is very FAIR.
42
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: Roller Coaster
September 25, 2012, 08:18:03 AM
Rabbitt - I can only think that your DS is trying to figure out who he is.  I know that when I went to university, I was pretty insufferable for a while there.  I had a snooty boyfriend and I was trying to fit into a different mold.  Ultimately, I realized that THAT wasn't working and decided to just be me.

I think that this is also part of adult children being independent from their parents.  I think sometimes the best idea is to get the men to have a 'man to man' chat.  Because, I have to say that I have a VERY CLEAR image in my head of the time my Dad told me "Don't talk to MY WIFE like that!"  That really hit home the idea of my Mom as a "person", not just as "MY mom".

I know I've recommended this book a lot, "The Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner.  It shows you that you should respond appropriately to your feelings of anger, and when you do, you feel GOOD, and you don't end up holding on to resentments.

Personally, I think that cutting off the gravy train is a bit harsh as a 'first step'.  I think you should respond to each of his 'slights/insults' APPROPRIATELY, at the time.

- I will NOT be spoken to that way.  Please call me back when you can speak civilly.  CLICK.
- It is unacceptable for you to speak that way about your grandmother / father / mother.
- You're certainly welcome to visit, so long as you act like a civilized human being.

The thing is to say it calmly.  No screaming.  Just "this is the line, you've crossed it, I'm not accepting it".  And to me, it's important to leave the door open, as in, "Please call me back when you can speak civilly" instead of "Don't call unless you can be nice!"  To me, he's just going to hear "don't call".

As for Christmas, I would have a few 'back up presents' handy.  Gift cards to a grocery store, or gas cards, or some other vague gift that you can use for yourself if you have to.  Feel free to say "Since you didn't like your birthday gifts, we didn't know what to buy you, but we know you have to eat!"  But keep in your back pocket the line "We got you exactly what you got me for my birthday."  Big smile, innocent, blinking eyes.

But I really think you should be prepared that he won't WANT to come home for Christmas.  That's just the 'feeling' I get in this situation.
43
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: When no means no
September 25, 2012, 06:16:06 AM
Oh heck no!  That's not an indication of a close-knit family!  In a close-knit family, they would have figured out a way for it to work for everyone, i.e. sharing hotel rooms so that DivaGirl and her DH could stay later too, or picking a hotel that can take dogs, or figuring out who could watch DD / dog.  And there wouldn't have been a question of an exchange of money.

ASIDE: This reminds me of the joke: 
Him: Miss, would you sleep with me for $1 000 000?
Her: SURE!
Him: How about for $20?
Her: NO WAY! What kind of girl to you think I am?
Him: We've already established what kind of girl you are, now we're just haggling over the price.

DGD - has your Mom controlled you in the past with money?  Is that her M.O.?  Does she control other people with money?  Because it seems weird to me that she kept pushing the money aspect.
44
Grandchildren / Re: Venting right now.
September 24, 2012, 12:41:19 PM
DivaGirl - I do not see a problem with what your DD said to your Mom.  It was honest and neither hurtful nor hateful.  I liked that she understood that it wasn't good for her health and that it was Gma's fault.

I don't understand why your Mom would call you 'ranting' about DD.  What could she say?  "Your DD told me that she shouldn't watch TV at bedtime and it wasn't good for her and that I put her to bed too late!"  Then your answer is "Yes.  That's all true.  I'm glad she understands.  These are all the things I've already told you.  What are you so mad about?" 

Your Mom doesn't have a leg to stand on here.  And really, YOU should be FURIOUS with her.  How DARE she jeopardize her relationship with your DD over something as ridiculous as 'a reasonable bedtime'?  Is her PRIDE worth more than her sleepovers with her GD?

Because here's how the scene could have gone down (in Normal Land):

M lets DD stay up late, she's a beast the next day.  You tell M that DD needs to go to bed earlier, without the TV on, NO LATER than 9 pm.  Whether she sees the truth in this or not, your M RESPECTS this.  In the future, she puts DD to bed at a reasonable time.  No further arguments come up regarding bedtime.  Sleepovers continue until DD doesn't think it's cool anymore.

Your Mom is cutting her nose off to spite her face.
45
Grandchildren / Re: Venting right now.
September 24, 2012, 10:43:10 AM
I don't know Pen.  This doesn't sound like a treat or an indulgence.

If normal bedtime is 7:30 pm and the little chiquita is not falling asleep until 10 pm or later, that's just too much.

Even then, if this was a family wedding or other celebration, that only happened every once in a while, I could see it being okay.  But this is monthly, and they're just watching TV.

I can see where 'staying up late', watching TV in bed cuddled to GMA can be a good, fun memory.  But it doesn't have to go on until 10 pm.

I don't disagree with you Pen.  I agree completely that children should be indulged by their GP's.  But I think the analogy to this situation would be the Dads feeding the kids junk food until they puked and were sick the whole next day, and doing it repeatedly, month after month, even after being told not to.