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Problem Solving => Grandchildren => Topic started by: Hear2day on October 03, 2011, 01:49:06 PM

Title: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Hear2day on October 03, 2011, 01:49:06 PM
How am I to cope? 
It is natural to expect when you marry and have children, those children will grow up, go to college, 
marry and have children. 

      Yes, I understand that it is their decision, their bodies and their money. I keep common sense boundaries - visit only when invited, call before you drop packages or mail, don't take sides if they tell you something, don't offer unasked for advise or even when asked, invite but don't order adult children for holidays, don't expect too much because they have lives and commitments, listen more than you speak, respect their life choices and try to make a life separate from them (volunteer) because you will be more interesting to them and because life goes on with or without you so live a life worthy of the gift of life.

   Those are only a few of my beliefs and how I try to conduct my relationship with them.  When my DD married, sil asked me to speak to my DD about starting a family. My response is always " you both are already a family. Speak with each other, your doctor and God".  I believed it was a diplomatic response and true. It is their marriage and their decision together.

   Well here they are. They have told me SIL has zero sperm, will not adopt, no donor sperm, and they will wait to afford medical fertility intervention & it will probably not work ( so says CDC statistics). I offered to help fund their efforts because they are in pain but SIL has pride & will wait until they have extra money ( maybe 10 years & 
DD is 30 SIL 34  - her fertility is less every year). (DD doesn't care if they never have kids )Commendable about money, but impractical because on top of this illness( yes infertility is classified as such by the CDC), my DD lost job and lost apartment. They asked if in an emergency and they cannot find an apartment, could they move in with us. Answer - yes and take my house and we can live in the basement den.
Luckily, They just found another apartment. But no to money for fertility treatments. He wants my DD to find a job that has benefits to cover infertility.  Hard enough to find a job but almost impossible because fertility treatment isn't covered in our state. ( my anger at health care is mounting because Viagra is covered but simple Medications to increase fertility for couples is not available)
She is now going back to school to become RN ( she has BS in marketing/management & is taking as many civil service exams as offered).
  Not asking for pity. Just trying to cope with the empty arms and a hole in my heart. I was Koolaid mom for the whole neighborhood, girl scout and boy scout former leader, baby sitter of neighborhood at all hours, doll and Teddy bear artist, child advocate volunteer and former teacher for special education for a few years.  You get the picture. Two rocking chairs for children - no waiting. 

  I am so heartbroken that I cannot look at children anymore. I have gone to baby showers & Baptisms ( 7 this year) and now I become physically ill at the thought of another invitation. Glad for my neighborhood kids but I cannot go to another event and it is not jealousy. Just wanting my little family to grow too. Lost my family- death has called all my extended family & parents( only child) extended family( cousins have died in their 20's ( army), serious illness(30's & 40's) and accidents. Aunts and uncles have passed and last two cousins will not see Christmas(cancer). No family on DH side either. And my DH is very ill and doctors are concerned about his  health and lifespan. He just turned 60 but looks an unhealthy 70. 
I am not menopausal yet but doctor calls me lucky - no symptoms and so far so good.
    My DS will never marry or have children because he is differently abled and doesn't want to raise a family. He has a job, large home and many friends and jokes that he is living his lifelong  goal  of becoming a priest without the vows.
And yes he helps many people.

     I want to say I am sorry for ranting here but don't know where to turn. I am deeply religious( former nun but only first vows) and I have poured out my heart to God. I don't tell my few friends because I don't want to spoil their joy. Once tried but was stopped in mid sentence when told they will conceive eventually or miracles happen or you are lucky to have no responsibilities. 
This is from people with grandchildren & are on their way to parks and family only functions.

    So please wise women be thee mom, daughter, sister,  grandmother and/or wife  - HELP! I need your strength and encouragement. I am an optimist but even I reach a limit.

 I do not I will not discuss this topic with DD and SIL. My daughter says although she is very fertile, she will live the way her husband chooses.
But I can see him leaving her and her chances to have a family of her own will be gone. Why should he stay? He can enjoy his life and not be saddled with children. He can find new relationships without worry.

     I am holding tight to my thoughts and will not say a thing to hurt them. And I am holding on to God's love and mercy. For those who have read my few posts know I have a sense of humor.  God has us as his children and He doesn't have grandchildren either. Mary didn't 't have grandchildren from Jesus. But I am holding on - barely. Praying as hard as I can.
     I love & train dogs and have a new one but they are not a substitute for children. I have spent my life caregiving and volunteering but that is not enough. Most women my age are becoming grandmothers and have no time for friends. When I was young & newly wed, I didn't fit in any where because my neighborhood is family first and only. Lost friends to grandchildren and I always sent cards and gifts for their Grandchildren's. But they don't have time except with other grandmother's so they can have playdates.  

I am losing myself and my heart. Tell me what to do. This is unlike any pain I have ever had. I have been a caregiver for sick, dying and dead family since I was 5 so I know too much about dying and I have had a knife to my throat and a gun to my head and was raped 2years ago. I need the normalcy of love and new life to go forward. but where is forward from here alone?

Thanks to anyone who reads this and double thanks to any suggestions, prayers or anything at this point.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Doe on October 03, 2011, 02:42:55 PM
I'm not sure why you are worried that SIL will leave DD and then she wouldn't be able to have kids.  Earlier you said she did not want children.  Did I read that correctly?

Quote from: Hear2day on October 03, 2011, 01:49:06 PM
Yes, I understand that it is their decision, their bodies and their money.

Truly?   

I see that you are in pain, but I feel it's self-inflicted.  As you said, it was your own personal expection, not DD's.

Maybe I'm missing something but all I can say is, stay calm and keep moving forward.  At least they are alive and healthy and in touch with you.  Be happy for the lives they are building.

Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: pam1 on October 03, 2011, 02:48:08 PM
hear2day, I almost didn't chime in to post but the re-thought it.  I am experiencing secondary infertility (had a child 10 years ago in my early twenties) and now cannot conceive.  One of the last issues that DH had with my MIL was over *my* infertility, she pretty much just said everything you said and more.  I wish someone would tell her what I'm about to tell you.

It's not about you. 

I'm glad to hear you do not say anything to them.  MIL doesn't say anything now, but she is so lost in herself and her grief over our situation that she is not a support for us at all. 

Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: pam1 on October 03, 2011, 03:32:50 PM
I thought about it some more and something else stuck out at me concerning the fertility treatments.  Fertility treatment is not an easy decision for any couple, ideally, they should take a long time to decide if it is what they want to do.  Long term effects from fertility treatments can be devastating, you're at a higher risk for cancer and other diseases and side effects can permanently end any fertility you might have.  It's extraordinarily expensive.  It's time consuming.  It's very painful.  And even after several cycles, it might not work.  Or if it does work the chances of miscarriage are higher.  Emotionally it is very exhausting, generally unless someone has been there, they don't understand it.  Many infertile couples say that the lack of support from family and friends make it that much worse.

Simply put, it is not just about funding fertility treatments.  Your DD will have to find a job that is ok with many weekly absences, which is very unusual.

DH and I have been in treatments a little over 6 months now, we've had success and then a miscarriage this last cycle.  I was put on bedrest for complications of treatment for over two weeks one time and then a handful of times after that (less than 2 weeks.)  I am also waiting to find out if a complication of this last cycle will have permanently stopped any chances of our treatment continuing.

And during all this, we can't speak to anyone on his side of the family.  We both could really use some help, a friendly ear to talk to but we go to my FOO for that even though they are further away. 

Your DD and SIL need to talk to their doctor and really research fertility treatments if it is something they are willing to do, it's not an easy choice, even with the money to do so. 

Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Rose799 on October 03, 2011, 03:58:35 PM
You've been a good mom & you've also been through a lot, Hear2day.  With little family left; that must impact your world.  It's not what you were accustomed to, nor the image you had for your family.   I came from a large extended family & thought, wrongly, that picture perfect world would continue as I knew it, too.  I have two dd's, 32 & 34.  I waited a long time to become a gm, & I was very, very patient, I might add.  : )  Odd has two dc.  I'm allowed little interaction with them now.  Ydd is single.  I have no way of knowing that will change or if she'll ever have dc of her own.  I had to wrap my brain around that fact.  It took some doing, but I've learned that's okay, so long as she's happy.  I've lived the life I chose for myself, & they have to do likewise.  Truthfully though, I think more so than giving up my expectations on what family should be, it was really menopause that was driving my emotions.  It was that feeling of having raised my family & "now what?"  I was lost because family was literally everything.   I was a SAHM.  I was also lost after babysitting ogc for two years.  Now I'm neither needed, nor wanted much of the time.  The hardest thing was stepping back from dd's.   I'm actually happier now than I've been in a long while.  I've spent my entire life pleasing people.  Now I'm busy pleasing myself & dh.  Like most women, I'm sure, my name was rarely on the to-do list.  Try not to focus so much on dd & more on yourself.   I was miserable & had to remember way back, to that that girl I once was.   That girl was a lot more fun & a lot happier.   Nurture the old Hear2day, that girl before she had dc.  Do you remember her?  She does still exist, though you may have trouble recognizing her off hand.  Invest your time & energy on her & on what brings her happiness.   Dh will appreciate seeing you happy, no doubt, and it may well improve his state of well being, too.  If I can do it, I know you can, too, Hear2day... 
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Begonia on October 03, 2011, 03:59:47 PM
I understand this is a complicated issue.  But I truly believe it is an issue that needs to only be with the husband and wife.  Period.  If the DS or DD attempt to involve the parents, I believe this is time for parents to step aside.  Nobody can predict the future. 

Like Pam1 said "it's not about you."  I agree. 

Step back.  There are some things that are best not discussed with parents, IL or friends.  This issue is one between partners.  Just MHO. 

Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Doe on October 03, 2011, 06:09:24 PM
Agreed.  I'm sort of surprised that you (and now we) know as much about this as we do.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Nana on October 03, 2011, 09:38:19 PM
Hear2day

Sorry you are going through all of these.    The most important thing for moms is that their children be happy.  If they are, with or without children is ok.  We do hope and expect someday to become grandparents and it hurts when things do not have the outcome we expected.  In this life we do not get to choose.  It is how it is.  I am a grandma of 3 kids which I adore, now I cannot imagine my life without them.  But this kids are my son's kids....(so lot more restrictions lol) and my other two daughters....dont know if they will ever have children.  My oldest wants children but do not have a boyfriend lol, and youngest has a boyfriend but says that maybe she doesnt have any children because the world is awful to bring children to suffer. 

I do respect your suffering... I will keep you in my prayers.  Let God decide....put your worries in a basket and let him take care of them. God know best!
Love.             
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Pen on October 03, 2011, 09:48:44 PM
I've yet to become overwhelmed with a desire for GC, so it's a little hard for me to relate. I like to think that I'd be fine with whatever DS & DIL end up doing. I do know women who suffer greatly when their AC decide to not procreate, and I am sorry you are in that kind of pain.

Is it cruel for me to suggest finding alternative outlets for the love you want to lavish on a GC? Do hospitals still need people to rock newborns in the intensive care unit? Or perhaps a homeless shelter or some other agency has a need for surrogate GPs?

I hope you find some peace and fulfillment soon. In the meantime, please try not to add to the stress your DD & SIL are feeling.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Hear2day on October 03, 2011, 09:59:49 PM
First I thank you for all of your suggestions. 

Doe, I thought if DD's DH left her, she might have a change of heart and may want children. By then it may be to late for her. I've seen it
happen  with distant family. It was heartbreaking for her. But that was in the 60's. 
  
   Rose, thanks for suggestions, kind words and sharing your story. I know it is my DD & SIL's problem and if I can't help I keep my opinions to myself. We don't see them very often and I want them to be happy and live their own lives whatever & where ever they go. I know it's not my life but their own and must mind my own business.  But you have  gc's in the world. May God bless them and you. I have tried everything to substitute for gc. For me all my volunteer work, caregiving my husband and fixing house( I put in windows - don't wash them).  Those activities just keep me busy. The heart wants what it wants. 
I know I will have to live with this hole in my heart and keep it to myself. Won't be the first and won't be the last time. I will not make my DD more unhappy. Many families die off. So I will start quietly giving my family treasures to distant cousins who would appreciate them. My DD already said to throw it all out and get rid of past ( she and DS  are not sentimental and have made many comments about not wanting family heirlooms.) I started by giving photos to cousins who have expressed interest. They were so happy to receive them. It's a start. 

Begonia, I hear you. It is their business only and I do keep my thoughts and opinions to myself. They don't need more pain. Just needed to vent or  I will explode.

  Pam, I am grateful to hear this situation from your point of view. I send you my prayers for whatever your heart desires. You have been through so many heartbreaks and sorrows. And those IF chemicals wreck your body and heart.  You and  Begonia are correct. This is their problem.  Period. Step back. Been there. Done that. 
     Parents have feelings too. But we are not allowed to express our pain to our DDs & DSs who experience IF. We have hopes and dreams for you too. We have dreams for ourselves too. We grieve over loss of children who are not here but in our hearts. We grieve for the end of our line and the absence of our family future. We grieve not sharing our family history and possessions with gcs.  Our Thanksgiving table is just five people. And my son is acutely aware his life will be shorter from his  disabilities and the medicines to deal with it. My husband is very frail. Who in Heavens name would want to sit at that table so close to deaths table. Here I speak what is in my heart so please understand what I have in my heart is not what I show them or tell them.  
      I try to celebrate holidays in new ways so no one dwells on their situation. Last year we attended a broadway show and a nice restaurant.  Since 3 years ago, i have tried to change focus of holidays and hopefully we can be thankful for the small family that we have. No one said how we have to celebrate Thanksgiving so we shake it up a bit. 

   This year they don't want a show because they were thankful for the cruise. I will try for them to find a theme - maybe looking at cruise pics and not old family pics that bring memories of past years and people who are not with us.

I scrimped and saved and sold quite a few things so that we could pay for the five of us to spend time together on a cruise. It is my DH's wish and we celebrated DH & DD's birthdays on the cruise.
They loved it and we were lucky to find an more adult cruise so myDD & SIL could enjoy time away from children and TTC.
   
     I know it is not my DD's job to cheer me up but mine to just be there if she needs or wants anything. To be available quietly and help her and comfort her.  

  Pam, if it is not too much to ask, could you keep me grounded by just sharing your story now and then. It might help others as well try to understand IF and your pain. It's ok if you complain to me about nosy bidy bodies - yes I know I am one. But truly if I can understand from my DD's point of view through you, I can avoid hurting them. If you know an online support group for parents of DD's & DS's With IF issues it would so help. Maybe....
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: lancaster lady on October 04, 2011, 01:29:48 AM
Hello Hear to ....and Welcome ....

My niece has been to hell and back trying IVF , she has tried month after month only to face more heartache
when nothing happens . she is going through all this for her partner who wants a family .
They are both 40 and running out of time .
If only he would agree to spend the rest of their lives together in agreement and contentment.
You my friend must find the earth mother need elsewhere , nursery helpers , babysitting , rent a granny
or something along those lines .
This couple are going through enough heartache without worrying about you I'm afraid .
They will sort this out between themselves , and if they can't agree , so be it .
I know you think you are not interfering , however vibes can be felt , sometimes hard to hide .
Even if they do eventually manage to have a child , sometimes as we know on this Forum
Grandmas don't always feature in their lives .
My own sister finds it hard to broach the subject with my niece , as she often dissolves into tears.
Their life , their problem . We are here to pick up , wipe down , and dry tears .
Your heart is in the right place Hear2 , keep on keeping busy .
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Pooh on October 04, 2011, 05:28:36 AM
Welcome Hear.  I am so glad you are not saying anything to them, as it truly is about them and not you.  I know it is painful for you because you had expectations.  We have learned around here that those are "our" expectations.  When our expectations aren't met, we have to understand that it is on us, no one else.  If you expected to go to France, and everything fell through, you would be upset, but you would change your plans.  Sure, it would stink and be disappointing, but ok....you go to Hawaii instead.

You have to change your expectations.  Infertility is hard on a couple and they definately don't need any added stress about it.  It is their decision to make what they want to do.  You now have to work on changing how you feel about it.  It sounds like, even if you don't like the plan, that SIL/DD are dealing with it and making plans.  You have to step back and leave them to it.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Scoop on October 04, 2011, 05:49:43 AM
Here2day - I think you should go and seek support with a professional.  I believe you need to grieve this loss of a potential family, but I don't think this is something for you to talk to your DD about.

This is NOT something they can share with you, it's not something you can lean on each other for.  Because, and I'm speaking from experience here, as much as it hurts you, it hurts them MORE.  And YOUR sadness over it and YOUR grief is adding to theirs, instead of helping to relieve it.  Your SIL may feel like a failure as a man, he may feel like he's failing his wife.  Please don't add to his burden by making him feel like he's failing her whole family.

I think the best thing you can do is to look toward a future with no GK's.  Make your peace with it.  Because as far as I know, there's not much you can do when there's ZERO sperm.  If there are a few, or not very good swimmers, you can work with that, although the success rate is low.  But you can't work with NOTHING.

Also, I bet they don't want your money because they don't want to feel like you BOUGHT their family.  I wouldn't either.  If you want to give them money instead of gifts, then give it to them and let them either spend it or save it.

Now, what is this morose talk about death being at your holiday table?  That's pure self-indulgent, woe-is-me, self-pity.  Snap out of it.  You are in control of your emotions, you should look around you and feel BLESSED by the family you DO have.  You have a loving DH, a DS, a DD and a SIL: an embarrassment of riches.  If the atmosphere is low, perk it up.  Focus on the positive.

I'm sorry this message seems harsh, but it seems like you need to give yourself a shake.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: FAFE on October 04, 2011, 06:16:30 AM
My DD and SIL are going thru the same thing with infertile SIL.  They did try IVF and it did not work.  When it was apparent that their having a natural child was next to impossible, they decided to adopt.  SIL had many restrictions, but as time went on, he was a little more open. 

I work part time for FEMA and last time I worked I put aside some money for them to use if they wanted/needed it for adoption.  They signed on with an adoption agency and was going thru the process.  Last July I received an email from a friend of mine who knew they were looking to adopt.  She had gotten an email from an acquaintance of hers who asked if she knew a good family who wanted to adopt.  Fast forward, last Oct 14th a beautiful little girl was born.  DD & SIL was in delivery room, daughter held her first and they took her home from the hospital and she will turn 1 year old this Oct 14th.  She is one of the two loves of my life.  Other GC is by my OS who I adopted when his father and I married.  Neither of the GC are my biological GC but to me they are the world. 

The only stipulation I put on the money was that if the baby was a girl, she should be named Frances Martha Elizabeth Anne (FEMA).  LOL, I got only one name out of the 4.

I know what you mean about wanting GC, I grew up in a big family, 6 siblings, and we had about 15 grandchildren, and now have many great and starting on the gg's.  OS has 1, DD 1, and MS will probably never get married.

Another challenge for me was when we were growing up, my mother's aspirations for us were to just graduate HS, college was not even a thought.  With my 3 children, it was college as a goal.  MS quit school in 11th grade (but did finally get a college degree).

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that no matter what WE want for THEM, it is not always gonna be a given.  I have recently "adopted" my GD's new cousin.  Her mother is from China and is not close by, so I'm a surrogate.  Another GC that is not a biological one, but one that I will love and cherish.

Hope I haven't meandered too far from your post.  Hugs to you. 
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: pam1 on October 04, 2011, 06:52:12 AM
hear2day, that sounds like a plan.  After the initial discovery of my diagnosis it took a little while for me to accept it but now I can talk pretty freely about it.  So any question you have, feel free to ask.  Also you can email me at my personal email (just click on my profile) if you'd prefer not to talk about it here.

I do understand that it is upsetting for grandparents, it is just very, very hard for a couple. 
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Doe on October 04, 2011, 07:09:14 AM
I want to echo what Pam said but my analogy is along other MIL things.  If they wanted their wedding a certain way and you were heavily invested in doing it your way, the sensible thing to do would be to give it up, move on and find other creative outlets.  You don't want to be the MIL who can't live unless she decorates the DIL's house!

I never really had those expectations for my kids to go to college, get married, have kids.  One went to college; the other got busy working.  One married and had a baby right away but I doubt I'll see her very much; the other is engaged and FDIL doesn't know if she wants to have kids.   My sons have met all my expectations by being the good people they are and I don't look to them to fulfill my own personal dreams.

I also had fertility issues - I hated even casual conversations about when we were going to have kids.  It's a raw nerve for people in that situation. 

Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: sesamejane on October 04, 2011, 08:54:42 PM
Welcome Hear,

I too loved the idea of being a gm.  It didn't work out for me but for different reasons.  Here's the thing though.  As painful as it is, and it is painful, now that I have redirected my life, I am finding all kinds of pleasant surprises.  I sometimes feel a twinge when others talk about their gc, and I find that I  do not want to take care of children, for example at church, because it reminds me.

But, my days are so full most of the time now with wonderful friends and activities that I would not be able to enjoy if others, my children, expected me to take on the gm role.  I hear you that you just wanted/needed to vent your heart's sorrow.  It hurts, it really really does.  Let yourself grieve for a time, but get moving on other joys life has to offer.

So glad you posted.  Welcome again  :)
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Hear2day on October 06, 2011, 07:09:04 PM
Rather for a bit of cold water in my face to shake me up. It helped & was needed. Thanks to all.
 
  Thanks Scoop for comments.  My family ( parents, aunts etc..) taught me to cut the tears & always bring a good joke about death to the dinner table. Yes, morbid humor helps ease the strain of years of caregiving & tragedy and when I said death was at the next table it was a bad joke. ( please note death was not at my family table -Death doesn't have an appetite for laughter or love). When  you laugh at your worries and bring them into the light, you can deal with them with love, patience and humor. 

   Also I taught my Girl scouts and Kool-aid kids that a pity party must be a catered affair ( suggested foods are ice cream, chocolate anything, chips. Fruit and nuts - plain or fancy)  limited to an hour or two at most. Then you clean up, wash your face and hands, get dressed in your best and get to work. 
     This is what I am trying to do with all the love I have within me. But I am lost.  Really lost just for now. I feel that I am in the middle of a desert and am surrounded 360 degrees by sand. No compass, blinded by the sun and alone. Not complaining - just assessing. Need to just start walking. Direction not as important for now.
       I reread my shout for advice and help, then I changed into my best clothes. Frequently, times were hard, but my mom always dressed her best even if it was just around the house because it made her feel wonderful and if you feel wonderful, good things can happen. It always seemed to work for her. Although events haven't changed, I have a little. Very wise woman my mom. 

       Thank you Pam and Doe and FAFE because you have first hand experience with IF issues. Thank you Pam and if your offer still stands i will e mail you. Please help me keep my heart & head on straight. Please be honest if I step over line. Need to understand but not at your expense.

        My DD has said today that any discussion about TTC ( trying to conceive) are off the table. She is focusing on her nursing exams. She is right to move on if that is what she wants. She has my full support, always.
        I can't honestly say I am at peace with her delay to try but you have all have echoed truth - it is their choice - whatever the outcome. Since she was about 8 years old, I've stood back and watched my DD make her choices and let her fall. I had to bite my tongue off at times, But I learned that she always stood back up on her own two feet on her terms. She chose F.I.T. and turned down VeraWang and then jumped to different designers before she learned that the fashion field is a dead end for her. Now she is in school for nursing. Proud of her strength and her stubbornness. She is taking a huge leap considering she hates science. But I really know she will make it work or she will start again & I will always stand by her.
 
      Help again!  Please tell me where exactly is forward? Can't go the same way you came in -  door closed. Where do you go with a hole in heart that nothing else can fill? 
Or is life really about knowing there is this hole, and becoming a better person with it - kinder& more understanding. Families can't be ordered at fast food stores. Would be nice though- extra sugar please & hold the hot sauce. Friends have come and gone because they have their own family & lives( but i enjoyed them while together). And I  refuse to become a pitiful old women with my nose pressed against the glass window of a toy store looking in while families are enjoying a nice time. Ugh! No not me. 
    
    Thanks SesameJane,for the understanding.  Just for now, I Cannot go to another baby shower, Baptism or baby party but will send gifts and cards. I pray every day for courage & strength to do some good in this world & not focus on self or run away from self & world.  Others have it much worse & need help with real life problems of food & shelter.  As soon as I get over myself (and I will with God's help ) it's back into the playpen and maybe volunteer again?

     
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Doe on October 06, 2011, 08:17:21 PM
 " Please tell me where exactly is forward? Can't go the same way you came in -  door closed. Where do you go with a hole in heart that nothing else can fill? "

H2D - Please remember there are infinite choices out there if you open yourself up to them.  It sounds like you may need to grieve some more before you're ready to move forward.    Just do it in your own time.

Today I realized that my DIL deleted the only videos I had of my GB from her youtube channel and I don't expect to see more or to be invited to her home to know GB, the way things are developing.  This unexpected weepiness hit me but then later I got an offer to volunteer for a toddler Halloween parade on the 31st and took it because it sounds like fun.   I'll bet that once you are finished grieving, you'll open an email or read something in the newspaper one day that will call out to you as your future.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Hear2day on October 06, 2011, 11:24:55 PM
Doe, I am so sorry. Videos, pics etc.. are treasures. How awful to keep you from GB.

I really admire your working with little ones. They are lucky to have you. How did you know you were ready to do this?  You and I share a great love of children. Prior to my DD IF situation, I was learning guitar again so I could volunteer at library.  My guitar is packed away for now but you have given hope. And not just to me.

Please keep me posted on your progress. I'm excited for you. Thank you for sharing your story and how you are coping. Sometimes we need to see someone go first to give us the strength  & courage to do the same.

And if no one ever told you before, you can hear it here. You are my hero. You don't need the tights or cape to be one. Just a loving heart and the courage to keep going when everyone and everything seems to tell you - don't, can't or shouldn't. Brava!
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: sesamejane on October 07, 2011, 12:37:49 AM
I took up the ukelele last year...not for public performance though!!  That's the way h2d!  You'll get it when the time comes. 
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: FAFE on October 07, 2011, 05:35:59 AM
I will have to say that never ever did I consider that my DD would leave her husband so she could have a baby.  Hope you can move forward.  There's plenty of children out there that needs some loving.  We'll help you find them.  Do something good for yourself today!  Fafe's orders. 
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Pooh on October 07, 2011, 06:15:54 AM
I want to add that what you are feeling about seeing other children is normal hear2day.  That will get better in time.  Every time I play with my great-nieces, I feel a pang of resentment and hurt that it isn't my GD and how senseless it all is.  That gets better because you also realize that all children are a gift and it has nothing to do with them.  Just think what I would be missing out on if I secluded myself from them.  I used to cry all the time over it.  I had to pull myself up by my bootstraps and realize that I was missing out on so much by not recognizing all the good things I still had.  So you take it one day at a time, and it does get better.  We all have our moments where something sets off the sadness, but that gets further apart as time goes on.

There is not a person on here that will tell you that the hole in your heart ever completely heals, but it does shrink if you allow yourself to move on and live life to it's fullest potential.  We only get one shot at this life and I don't want to be 50 years down the road, look back and know I wasted it.  There would be no one to blame for that except myself.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Pooh on October 07, 2011, 06:17:50 AM
Quote from: sesamejane on October 07, 2011, 12:37:49 AM
I took up the ukelele last year...not for public performance though!!  That's the way h2d!  You'll get it when the time comes.

I vote that you youtube that and let us all watch it!
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: pam1 on October 07, 2011, 07:09:45 AM
hear2day, my offer still stands :) 

I will say I did have some fleeting thoughts that DH might leave me, since I'm the one with the problem and I already have a child from a previous relationship.  I also felt that it was unfair to him, I was ok with no more children but he really wanted a bio child.   We've spoke about it and he said this experience has only made  him love me more, not less.  I think for us it was a bonding experience -- since a lot of people don't really understand, we've turned to each other.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: sesamejane on October 07, 2011, 08:45:42 AM
Maybe someday Pooh.  Right now, the only song I do well is "home on the range."  lol  : )))
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Hear2day on October 10, 2011, 06:55:39 PM
Thanks ladies for sharing your strength, courage and ideas.

Pam, I have tried to write but it didn't go through but will again. Thank you for sharing with me.
I really need you advice and words of experience. Hope I can offer some help for you too.

Fafe,  yes dear one.  I will take your orders because they and you are so good.  You understand how our minds can send us down thoughts that may be false and scary. But I want to face these thoughts down and overcome them. DD & SIL seem to really love each other but who knows what happens behind closed doors. And that is none of my business. Right ladies!

Pooh, how right you are. We can't waste what time we have in regret, bitterness or avoidance. And I am working on it.  For now, for just a little time, I need to get my bearings before I can enjoy little ones. 
        What makes it so hard is taking care of my husband who has multiple chronic illnesses, trouble walking or sitting and constant pain. We both could really appreciate a gc now to give our love and watch DD & SIL family grow. To be part of life. Too many doctors and tests etc. can sap a person's will to live. My DH is going through that now. I have to find reasons for him to keep going and to continue treatments. Please do not think a  gc has that job. No child should be born for any reason other than love and never to a job such as keeping anyone feeling better. That's a bonus but not a reason ever. I must say the love we lavish on  our huge puppy is never the same as a child. It is fun but just not the same.   Remembering the past of our family through pics and watching family movies ok for a bit but I will not live in the past. I have to hold on to the belief that there will be a way to make a new life.

     " You can't always get what you want but if try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need."
Quote from the great philosophers the Rolling Stones. ( true words that have helped me in tough spots. Ok - giggle here! )

     SesameJane, girl I want to hear you play. And why not Youtube! Maybe we can both let music heal. I know when I hold my guitar against my stomach, the sounds vibrate inside of me. It soothes and even though I hear a clunker it's ok. Try singing along. That feels goid too. And you can make up words. Have fun.
Thanks again.

If anyone knows a great reproductive clinic on Long Island NY, please share really.
   
  
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: sesamejane on October 10, 2011, 08:32:38 PM
H2d,
My teacher/"master" won't let me play without singing along.  He's funny.  I have only had three lessons becasue other things came up in life.  I will likely go back for lessons in a month or so when things calm down and my kayak is put up.  Actually, the reason I wanted to play is so I could sing - have my own musical accompanyist!  If the day ever comes that I post myself on utube (I can't even imagine!), well, that will really be something!  That would be brazen confidence in the face of absolutely no talent!  hmmm....could be fun?!!

BTW, my belief is that you have to let go of expectations and listen/wait patiently sometimes to even discover what you need.  Be careful though!  I was talking to some friends and my sis the past few days about how my life has been so unsettled the past two years (I moved 3000 miles for a new job and don't know if it is going to work out, plus moving into town next week).  My sis asked, "What is it that you usually pray for?"  I responded, "Peace...stability."  She said, "so your being sent chaos to learn peace in the face of it!  how wonderful!"  Wow...never thought of it that way - and of course absolutely *no* sympathy from my big sis!  Truly though, I am getting one lesson after another about turning myself over to G..., trusting, letting go, learning peace.  It hurts, and it's hard, but my faith grows daily.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Pooh on October 11, 2011, 05:40:11 AM
My Mother told me to never pray for patience unless I was prepared to deal with everything that could be thrown at me to learn it.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Doe on October 11, 2011, 07:04:05 AM
I don't know if your mom sounds more like a wise old country lady or a Zen Master.   Another great one!
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Pooh on October 11, 2011, 09:59:10 AM
Lol...I guess she's both.  Mostly she has just led a very hard life and somehow manages to still have a huge twinkle in her eye.  Doe, I wrote a novel about here on her a long time ago because she truly is an incredible person and my hero.

Edit: It's under success stories, the strong women in my life...I just realized I never finished it...Lol
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Doe on October 11, 2011, 12:02:03 PM
I'll definitely take time to read it!
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Hear2day on October 11, 2011, 12:53:22 PM
Hi ladies. You all have/had great teachers. That is one of the greatest blessings God may grant us.  

     I mentioned at beginning I was a nun. Wanted to join st 16 but you know how parents were back in the day. Surprise! For me it was a dream come true to be a Third Order Carmelite sister. Many religious orders let you join while you are still married ( third order) but if you are widowed/er you cannot remarry. You don't live in convent ( convent raised as child ) but in real world. Our mission was to pray and look for God's thumb print in the world. Only was able to take first vows not final vows  but will go back for it.

     You all are touching on what the great religious teachers and prophets have spoken about. ( from classes)  If you desire patience, God will place you in a position where patience is needed. If you wish for courage, God will place you in a position where your courage is needed. If you wish for peace, God will place you in circumstances where peace is sorely needed. And if you pray for love, God will place you in a position where you will need to give your love with all your heart. Those gifts are not given in a poof! 
We wouldn't  them and wouldn't know we had the gifts. God is not a genie here to grant you three wishes. God loves us so much that He gave us free will ( even the angels didn't get that ) to choose. But if we choose to ask for those wonderful gifts God will be there to give them to us if we reach for Him.  IMHO I can honestly say that although people have let me down ( and who hasn't had that experience ) God has always been there. It is more than a feeling. It is a peace I feel in my soul.  Even when my life was physically threatened. I am still here, still imperfect and still reaching for God. And I am still waiting for God to lead me to wherever it my be.
     
      We are all God's children so one can say that God has no gc. 

    And here is where I go AHA!
I do not claim to know the plans of the Almighty, but I know somehow
God will grant me what I need to survive even the loss of gc.  But don't think I am at peace yet. Maybe God will grant me gcs when He feels i am ready. But for now Still in pain, hurt as if my left arm was amputated and still praying and trying. 
    Thanks for bringing this topic to the thread. It truly is something to ponder.

    And please keep writing, singing and playing that ukelele!  And why not YouTube if and when you are ready. Keep me posted. Maybe I will join in later ( still have chord problems) via skype someday.

Thanks for an uplifting thread. It was  truly needed.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Ruth on October 11, 2011, 01:12:30 PM
Hear2day, I didn't initially get into this thread as I feel unqualified, I am blessed with two wonderful g/c, and I mean they are obscenely wonderful and no grandma was ever more blessed than I.  However I am unable to restrain myself from jumping in after reading your final post.  My little sister was also a nun for about 5 yrs.  I wish there were some way to get you two connected.  This is one of those 'so you think YOU have problems???' moments!  Little sister has never married, and it is grieving her too death.  She cannot find a mate and is long past childbearing age.  She is a teacher and able to at least interact with children, but she is so lonely for a husband of her own.  It just hasn't worked out.  Also, her twin was unable to conceive.  So she is also brokenhearted.  But both of them are smiling, loving people who give lots and lots to others.  My family (foo) each has its own little load of pain.  There's wisdom in this somewhere, but I believe you will find your own wisdom in this.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Hear2day on October 11, 2011, 02:43:14 PM
Dear Ruth, yes, please. May I email you and give you my email. Please share it with your sister. What order is she from? Please let her know I am now praying for you all. A dear Sister reminded me ages ago that there were no coincidences, just God leaving thumbprints of His love and handiwork. So we should just pay attention and follow where they lead. I believe.
       Last night, while caring for DH, I was praying for so many people and just mentioned to DH how much I miss my dearest friend(passed away).  We became "twins" after we discovered that we had a love of our faith and songs of worship. We could finish each others thoughts and shared everything but husbands and underwear!  I said to DH that I was blessed to have had one great friend in my lifetime who was my "twin" and was grateful. But( you knew there had to be a but here) today,  maybe God isn't finished with me yet and He will bless me again with a "twin" someday. Just received a big dose of hope and sharing it with all of you.
     Well..... I may not have a blood twin but perhaps God is sending twins so we can share and not be so lonely. God listened to my heart and perhaps answered an unasked for prayer.  God answers always seem to me to contain a bit of good humor and much love.
    I will send email address now. 

To those wonderful women who have followed this thread, please remember that God really listens  to our asked and even  unasked prayer. We receive wonderful support from our friends here and who knows where God will lead us next. We are truly loved.     And He isn't finished with any of us just yet.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: DelightfulDIL on October 11, 2011, 02:46:48 PM
Quote from: Hear2day on October 10, 2011, 06:55:39 PM
Thanks ladies for sharing your strength, courage and ideas.

Pam, I have tried to write but it didn't go through but will again. Thank you for sharing with me.
I really need you advice and words of experience. Hope I can offer some help for you too.

Fafe,  yes dear one.  I will take your orders because they and you are so good.  You understand how our minds can send us down thoughts that may be false and scary. But I want to face these thoughts down and overcome them. DD & SIL seem to really love each other but who knows what happens behind closed doors. And that is none of my business. Right ladies!

Pooh, how right you are. We can't waste what time we have in regret, bitterness or avoidance. And I am working on it.  For now, for just a little time, I need to get my bearings before I can enjoy little ones.
        What makes it so hard is taking care of my husband who has multiple chronic illnesses, trouble walking or sitting and constant pain. We both could really appreciate a gc now to give our love and watch DD & SIL family grow. To be part of life. Too many doctors and tests etc. can sap a person's will to live. My DH is going through that now. I have to find reasons for him to keep going and to continue treatments. Please do not think a  gc has that job. No child should be born for any reason other than love and never to a job such as keeping anyone feeling better. That's a bonus but not a reason ever. I must say the love we lavish on  our huge puppy is never the same as a child. It is fun but just not the same.   Remembering the past of our family through pics and watching family movies ok for a bit but I will not live in the past. I have to hold on to the belief that there will be a way to make a new life.

     " You can't always get what you want but if try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need."
Quote from the great philosophers the Rolling Stones. ( true words that have helped me in tough spots. Ok - giggle here! )

     SesameJane, girl I want to hear you play. And why not Youtube! Maybe we can both let music heal. I know when I hold my guitar against my stomach, the sounds vibrate inside of me. It soothes and even though I hear a clunker it's ok. Try singing along. That feels goid too. And you can make up words. Have fun.
Thanks again.

If anyone knows a great reproductive clinic on Long Island NY, please share really.
   
 

Hear,  I bolded the last line of this post because it seems like you are going to go ahead and push this fertility issue. Please remember that having children and fertility are private by nature. Put yourself in their shoes. If your MIL had said that you SHOULDN'T have children, you would have thought that it was not her place. I know it is disappointing to you, but the same applies here. Wait for them to talk to YOU about it if they choose to do so.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Hear2day on October 11, 2011, 03:42:43 PM
DelightfulDIL,
You are right!  It is just my quirky sense of humor that can and does go wrong.
Had a lovely week back and forth with DD and there were too many topics too discuss that I didn't even think about gc's.  I was a published neonatal researcher and still like to keep up to date with the latest technology and doctors. That does not mean I am the best, smartest or anything special. Just means I try to keep up to date with the latest research and former colleagues ( when possible). I have folders for DH doctors, facilities and illnesses. Also have files of children's health( my former field of research), latest topics and yes,fertility clinics. Others have asked for my advice and it is good to have a working understanding of terms and facilities available. My Koolaide kids, their parents and others   now grown still seek advice but I still refer them back to their own doctor for further clarification pertinent to their condition. 
      But thanks to the women here, my DD & her SIL will do it their way.
And they will tell me what they think I should know. I am avoiding all discussions about family planning. It is safer that way and then I won't have to show my emotions which I am told I do wear on my face and heart. Thank you for pointing that out. Keeps me on my toes so I won't slip up.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Hear2day on October 11, 2011, 03:53:14 PM
Hi Ruth

  Tried to email you but not available. Check my profile and let's get intouch soon.
Take care and praying for everyone  especially wwunited.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Ruth on October 11, 2011, 04:45:11 PM
Uh oh, I don't know how to send a personal message, hope I can get an email address to you.  I'd love you to write my sister, someone may help me with this.  I'm an imbecile with computer stuff.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: Hear2day on October 11, 2011, 05:22:05 PM
Hi Ruth,
It can be tricky. Just go to my profile. Email from there.
Hope to hear fro you and Pam1.
Take care and praying for all.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: momof2 on October 27, 2011, 06:14:26 AM
hear2day- I have not read through most of the posts seeing as you have had so many (great :D). Forgive me if I have repeated any advice previously given.  Hear2day, it sounds as if you whole identity is wrapped up with your role as a mother. Now that DD is grown, you want to have the secondary role of grandma. It's totally understandable. But you know that God may have different plans for you. I know that being a GM is something you wanted so badly, but you are going to have to except that that role you wanted may not be available to you. However, there are so many programs through the ministry and the church that could help you through this. Many children are not fortunate to have GPs and many parents are the oldest in their generation and have parents that are no longer living. Have you considered spending your time as a mentor in a local school district or in the church? What about volunteering in a women's and children's shelter? I know that these children will not have a biological connection to you, but your love for family and children could really be put to good use for people who do not have grandparents of their own. Take your grief and use it to be the hands and feet for God.  What about sponsoring a child in an overseas program? I know of a great one if you are interested.
Title: Re: DD & infertile SIL won't have kids- I am grieving hard -how can I cope?
Post by: pam1 on October 27, 2011, 08:11:52 AM
Hey hear2day, I returned your email awhile ago.  Hope you're still reading here and everything is ok.