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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: Marilyn on February 03, 2010, 08:39:10 AM

Title: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 03, 2010, 08:39:10 AM
I was wondering,has any body on here ever heard how are sons feel?It seems to me they would get very resentful,always giving up their side of the family.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Pen on February 03, 2010, 09:00:48 AM
Good topic! My DS came over one day absolutely livid about the treatment we received from DIL and her family. Apparently he stood up for us or something because things are a little better now between DIL and us. Her family is still shunning us, though.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 03, 2010, 09:01:37 AM
Quote from: Mominwaiting on February 03, 2010, 08:39:10 AM
I was wondering,has any body on here ever heard how are sons feel?It seems to me they would get very resentful,always giving up their side of the family.

In my case, my DIL has gravited my son towards his father's family...his stepmother has three children....I'm sure it's become the norm to him now...but he will never know how it literally breaks your heart in two....I don't know, honestly, how he can allow this to happen...to tell you the truth, most people tell me, he has no choice, otherwise, there would be hell to pay....and he must do as she requires....

I'll tell you, right now, I really really dislike her...how can you sit on your butt...and not work, run up the charges constantly and allow your husband to work 3 jobs, then when that isn't enough, he goes over to Afghanistan for the big bucks...she doesn't care, all she cares about is being taken care of....and I don't know how his father can keep his mouth shut, although he told me, he couldn't stand it if he were in my position, that they could not stand not seeing our GD or son...guess, I'm supposed to be strong...so, they don't say anything.....how hypacritical...if it were him this was being done to, I'd sit my son and DIL down and tell them, look, you may not get along with them, but they are still family...he is your father and has every right to see his son and GD...and you, DIL might not like him, however, you owe it to your husband and daughter to make periodical visits....

I was good enough to watch that little girl when they were home for a year...years ago...every single weekend...and I never got a thank you from her...but then she wanted to work, and I surely didn't mind having my GD....

Gosh, I just don't know what makes people be so hateful?
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 03, 2010, 09:49:44 AM
Creme,
The DILs will continue to do this until they are successful in removing him from our lives. To quote them: "we have power and we use it.  It's either his Mother or me.  Let's see which one he chooses?"

How can people be so hateful?  The very same reason we are hearing of terrible killings, especially of children...."power, greed, no souls, no hearts"

The DILs want power, all power.  We are in the way. 

One young man I know, just one, said to his wife when she started in on his Mother:  "hey, that's my Mom"  All of them try it but once in awhile, they don't get away with it. 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 03, 2010, 09:53:02 AM
chickie, it is just so heartbreaking....how can they call themselves women...?  human beings?  what is wrong with them?  How did they become so hateful?  What do they get out of this? 
I'm just so dumbfounded by all of it...and how can our son's live with themselves, when they allow they're wives to treat us like this? 

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 03, 2010, 09:59:18 AM
Sons want the wife happy.  She's not happy unless she gets us out.  We are a threat to her control and power.   

She will continue to do this until she makes you look so "toxic" (they adore that word) that he will believe it. 

And Anna?  Be very careful with the FDIL...they are usually nice at first but in the background, they begin the groundwork for the great elimination.  Going to counseling is a good way for them to start with the eliminating.   

There, the DIL points out all your flaws.  Son thinks: "my Mother is terrible!!.  I can see it" (they keep going to counseling until he does see it)

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Pen on February 03, 2010, 12:26:50 PM
Some random thoughts on this, since I haven't ever figured it out. Let me know if I'm way off base!

When I gave birth to my first, the experience immediately connected me to all mothers and women from the beginning of humans to the present, in all parts of the world. I instantly understood the anguish/joy/love that is the female experience. I didn't see my child as better than any other - of course, immeasurably precious to me and DH, but that's how every parent feels, I hope. But, all children are precious and deserving, right?

Then I realized that the moms coming along after me often put their kids in a class above all others. Their precious darlings could only play with certain classes of kids; had to win every game; had to come first in school, in looks, in after-school activities, etc. etc. Their kids needed more, were worth more, were entitled at the expense of all others.

Another thing I've been thinking about is the objectification of women. It doesn't only affect males who then turn women into objects and treat them as such, it affects how women treat other women. Am I just babbling or do you think there might be something there? Are DILs turning us into objects that don't measure up so they feel justified in treating MILs terribly?
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 03, 2010, 01:00:50 PM
I think alot of my DILs insecurity is cause from her Mom,the day they got married my DIL's mother walked her down the aisle.When the pastor ask who gives the bride away,she said my Mom.Her Mom and dad were divorced,and i felt so bad for her Dad.His face was blood red,and you could tell he was in a lot of pain.I think her mom instilled a fear in her about men.And to be honest,that didn't say a thing to me about her Dad,but sure said alot about her Mom!!!.........she must have really unloaded her problems on the children.And turned her daughter against her Dad.

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Postscript on February 03, 2010, 01:19:56 PM
"And Anna?  Be very careful with the FDIL...they are usually nice at first but in the background, they begin the groundwork for the great elimination.  Going to counseling is a good way for them to start with the eliminating. "  


Anna you have a good relationship with your future dil and that is wonderful, believe in it and be happy with it, don't allow ominous and unfounded warnings get in the way. 

Chickie you all call this site as the antithesis of the "dil hate sites" I'm sorry but that comment and the bulk of this thread shows that just isn't true .  Yesterday I posted about my mil and that was hard for you to swallow because you apparently drew parallels which lead to the thread about throwing mothers of sons away.  If you want all mother in laws not to be painted with the same brush, you need to stop painting all daughters in law with your own brush.  You are all generalizing about daughters in law.

Your comment to Anna is unhelpful and unsupportive in my opinion.  She is very excited and hopeful of her relationship with her future daughter in law and you are busy sowing the seeds of doubt.  Her future daughter in law is not her current daughter in law, period. 

As for the regrets our sons may or may not have?

I would like to think that if we have the relationship we think we have with any of our children, this wouldn't happen.  It is important to remember that sons and daughters in law are not our children, they are someone elses children who marry our children.  They have different outlooks, different personalities and I know of lots of relationships where the daughters in law have less issues with their Mother's/Father's in law than they do with their own parents. 

My mother in law was/is horrible to all of us that married her children, I didn't walk away from that relationship easily and certainly not without a backward glance as my post in the other thread explains.  I didn't expect my husband to walk away from it at all.  The only regrets he has, are that his mother was so unable to accept us, as a couple and as a family, that she pushed and pushed to get between us and tried to make him doubt me.  I think when we are visiting my parents (we travel to see them once a year and stay a few days they live over 200 miles away from us) he resents the fact that his relationship with my parents is so much easier than his own relationship with his parents.  For his birthday one year (a milestone), my parents travelled the 200 miles to surprise him.  His parents live 15 minutes away at most, they don't even ring him for his birthday, I think he feels that his parents don't have half the love for him that mine do.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 03, 2010, 01:33:07 PM
My sincere apologies to Anna.  I don't want her to have happen what happened to us happen to her.

You said that if we had the relationships with our sons we thought we had this wouldn't happen?  No one can prove to anyone else what they have not experienced themselves.

I've stated that both sons married extremely controlling women.  They needed that in their lives.  One is out and out controlling, can be rude and downright mean, the other one is a silent controller who does it passively. Both ways are deadly.

Wonder why his parents wouldn't come the 15 minutes away?
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Postscript on February 03, 2010, 01:45:33 PM
Chickie I wonder why they couldn't even pick up the phone if they really didn't want to come here.

I know my mil doesn't like me any more than she likes any of my bils or sils.  If she didn't want to come and socialize with us for her son's milestone birthday, what prevented her from ringing him during the day? I think it speaks volumes about lack of regard and respect for ones own flesh and blood.  Perhaps you have a different take?
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 03, 2010, 01:57:13 PM
Do you think she really doesn't like her son?  I can't imagine that but maybe it could be true.  If she didn't call, she must be making some kind of statement by not calling.

It's a shame.  I don't understand how this could happen.  I'm trying to think of something that would prevent me from calling.  Nothing could...but if I was afraid to talk to the DILs, I guess that would be one reason. 

They both strike can terror in my heart.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Postscript on February 03, 2010, 02:24:10 PM
Chickie he has a cellphone and they have no problem ringing the house when they need something done.

I think she likes her son, in that he is her son.  She doesn't like that he won't allow her to control him but then he never has.  When he was younger, he just used to not tell her his plans etc.  When we were dating (pre cellphones of course), she used to ring my home wanting to know when he was coming home, this would be after he'd told her he wouldn't be home for dinner and not to expect him until late, before he came over. 

I think because she saw things happening or (silly me) I told her about things we were planning, when she tried to become a part of our decisions then be offended and sulky if we didn't do it the way she said to, she blamed me because he'd just present a fait accompli in the past.  So I learned not to share news, my husband told me not talk about impending purchases etc because if I did, there was fall out.  No matter what I did, it was wrong. 

You talk about your daughter in law getting in your sons ear? When my husband told my mother in law that we were expecting (a child I subsequently miscarried) my mother in law took him aside and asked if it was planned, if he'd known I was trying to get pregnant?  Of course he did, we were married and already had one child.  When I miscarried, she again took him aside and asked him what I had done to lose the baby.  When my grandmother died, she threw a fit because she wasn't asked to babysit, know why I didn't ask her? When my husbands grandmother died, my parents attended the service out of respect for my husband and his parents, I kind of thought they might want to do the same, silly me, of course they didn't.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 03, 2010, 02:25:53 PM
Postscript...........what are you saying....it's my fault i don't have a better relationship with my son..............Wow,this has really gotten off the real subject
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Postscript on February 03, 2010, 02:41:25 PM
Not at all Mominwaiting, perhaps I wasn't clear?

I said I would like to think that if we have the relationship we think we have with our sons, this wouldn't happen. 

We don't know our children view our relationship with them the same way we do.  I know my son doesn't tell me everything that is going on in his life, I know he doesn't share all his fears with me, even all his victories.  I'd like to think he does.  I'd like to think now he's older, he views me more as another adult (he's still in his teens) but I know at the moment he doesn't, he just sees me as his mother, sometimes it's the mother who comforted him, sometimes it's the mother who grounded him.  I'd like to think that will change, but I can't be sure in his eyes it will.

I'd like to think bad things only ever happen to bad people, the unfortunate truth is that bad things happen to good people too.

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 03, 2010, 02:43:17 PM
Thanks Anna for the reply.I think my son doe's what ever she says,because yes,he has to live with her.The counsler i went to a couple of years ago said,when you have to give your family up the stakes are to high.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 03, 2010, 02:49:10 PM
 thanks for your reply too,Postscript.Now i understand what you were saying.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Postscript on February 03, 2010, 02:58:17 PM
Quote from: Anna on February 03, 2010, 02:33:12 PM
Mominwaiting, I know my son feels horrible that dil & I don't get along.  He feels like he is stuck in the middle & nothing HE does is right.  He loves his wife, he loves his mother, but he just wants peace.  It's easier to give in to dil, he has to live with her, I don't see how it's easier to give into dil if he knows she is hurting his parents.  I would never let my hubby come between me & my parents, & I have never tried to come between hubby & his parents.  I'm sure ours sons are hurt, a lot.  They are confused, cause they don't remember Mom being the way dil says she is, & if dil says it often enough I think our sons start to believe it.

Anna that is an interesting statement.

This is a difficult relationship, torn loyalties.  Maybe the problem here is that the sons are sitting on the fence and taking the path of least resistance when what they need to do, is commit to solving the problem to everyone's satisfaction.  In the early stages of our marriage, my husband got caught up in what started as a minor family disagreement. He was unhappy with the way my father spoke to him.  I thought it would pass but it festered and grew, to the point where my father threatened to punch my husband on the nose! At that point I had to step up.  I talked to them both, telling my father that my husband was not his child and had different ways and my father had to be tolerant.  I told my husband that my father was my father and his ways were different, but he too had to learn tolerance.  They withdrew to their corners, glared a bit, then started talking, things were uncomfortable for a while but they worked through it because I made them, I love/d them both.  They laugh about it now.

It's a minor example but it could have grown into a huge rift if I'd not stepped up.  I don't think it's a matter of choosing sides and I don't think that is what you want, I think you need the problem solved.  Am I on the right track?

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 03, 2010, 03:08:16 PM
You said you made them work thru it because you love/d them both,  Postscript.  We don't get that kind of treatment as his Mother.  We have to be dismissed.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Postscript on February 03, 2010, 03:20:35 PM
With that particular line of thinking Chickie, what then is the logical conclusion?

As I see it, the conclusion can be one of these:

1.  The son doesn't know he can't sit on the fence, he doesn't know he is the source of the solution.
2.  The son has tried and failed because one or other (wife or mother) won't come to the party
3.  The son picks a side because it's easier

There may be more, I can't think of everything perhaps someone else can add?  It appears to me from that wee brainstorm, that the son is the key here.

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 03, 2010, 03:22:30 PM
My opinion is #3.  I believe he (DS) is afraid to rock the boat with his wife.  Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 03, 2010, 03:25:54 PM
Chickie, what do you think here?  That's just my opinion from where I stand.  I have seen real "fear" in my sons eyes when talking about my own DIL.  Maybe my situation is different.

My son ended up leaving his wife.  This may be "just him."  I'm secretly happy this happened.  She was manipulative and controlling.  Her side was the "only" side.  I'm the opposite.  I can back off and lick my wounds if I need to.  I go into my thinking corner and leave him with his own choices.  Just because they are not my choices, doesn't mean I have to take the consequences.  I was happy he left her.  I wound never tell her that, but I was.  It was my secret...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Postscript on February 03, 2010, 03:31:11 PM
Coco that begs the question, what in the world has he gotten himself into and what exactly is he afraid of? 

It's painfully clear that my husband is not afraid of me.  When I tell him don't make me beat you, he laughs in my face  ???

Seriously though, what IS he afraid of? Conflict? Abuse?



Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 03, 2010, 03:38:22 PM
He is afraid of not having another moments peace in his life.  He is afraid of waking up to his wife's absence.  He is afraid of the bank account being drained.  I could make an entire post of what he might be afraid of.  These kinds of DIL's look for weakness in others and they prey on it.  They know their husband's weakness as much as they've studied and mastered their MIL's weakness.  He KNOWS that Postscriopt.  This woman KNOWS what his weaknesses are, and she will use them.  After all, look what she has effectively done to his biological mother.  How much more personal can you prove to be?
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 03, 2010, 03:39:21 PM
I think it's some of all 3 points for me, Coco.  Thanks for asking...they are thought provoking questions, Postscript.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Postscript on February 03, 2010, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: cocobars on February 03, 2010, 03:38:22 PM
He is afraid of not having another moments peace in his life.  He is afraid of waking up to his wife's absence.  He is afraid of the bank account being drained.  I could make an entire post of what he might be afraid of.  These kinds of DIL's look for weakness in others and they prey on it.  They know their husband's weakness as much as they've studied and mastered their MIL's weakness.  He KNOWS that Postscriopt.  This woman KNOWS what his weaknesses are, and she will use them.  After all, look what she has effectively done to his biological mother.  How much more personal can you prove to be?

Then Coco I think you are right to be pleased he has left because it doesn't sound to me that he had a marriage, it sounds more like he was in a prison camp.  Some people are just bad people, some people are just not meant to be together.

But what if the marriage is happy and the son shows no desire to leave it?

As I said yesterday, I know my mother in law would tell the tale of our difficulties with an altogether different slant.  In our case we've been happily (though we've had our ups and downs) married for 20 odd years.  So it's not that he's afraid of me.  We've had our ups and downs, I know he isn't afraid of conflict because he's conflicted a doozy more times than I can count and not just with me. 

So now my question becomes, what responsibility do our sons have in our relationships with their wives/girlfriends/significant others?

Surely, it's more than just sitting there shrugging their shoulders and saying "I'm caught in the middle"  Shouldn't it be better than just settling for the easiest option?

And

If they don't know they have some share in the responsibility for that relationship, is it up to us to enlighten them?
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 03, 2010, 03:54:11 PM
Thank you Anna.  I never realized to what extent women like this would go to until my son came back home.  You just don't know. Or I didn't, but then I am naive with most people.  I give anyone the benefit of the doubt when I first meet them.  They have to show me I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 03, 2010, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: Postscript on February 03, 2010, 03:52:42 PM
Then Coco I think you are right to be pleased he has left because it doesn't sound to me that he had a marriage, it sounds more like he was in a prison camp.  Some people are just bad people, some people are just not meant to be together.

But what if the marriage is happy and the son shows no desire to leave it?

As I said yesterday, I know my mother in law would tell the tale of our difficulties with an altogether different slant.  In our case we've been happily (though we've had our ups and downs) married for 20 odd years.  So it's not that he's afraid of me.  We've had our ups and downs, I know he isn't afraid of conflict because he's conflicted a doozy more times than I can count and not just with me. 

So now my question becomes, what responsibility do our sons have in our relationships with their wives/girlfriends/significant others?

Surely, it's more than just sitting there shrugging their shoulders and saying "I'm caught in the middle"  Shouldn't it be better than just settling for the easiest option?

And

If they don't know they have some share in the responsibility for that relationship, is it up to us to enlighten them?
I believe it is up to me to enlighten my son only if he asks.  But my son is 35.  If he were your sons age I might feel differently.  I may pull him aside and go out for a starbucks, etc., and just talk about where he may be headed.  Even at 17 though, I know that there may have to be other talks attached to that one.  I never covered all things.  Just some.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Postscript on February 03, 2010, 04:04:16 PM
Coco, you know what your son is afraid of.  Your daughter in law doesn't sound very nice at all.  But Anna, your daughter in law is a good mother and seemingly good wife?  Rather than jump to conclusions about the children, perhaps it would be better to find out?  It could just as easily be concluded that his rabbit about to be devoured look is fear of potential conflict could it not? 

Perhaps when he gets that look you could ask him gently, I can see that you see potential for a problem by the look on your face, can you explain what the problem you foresee is?  It would open dialogue, that way you could learn more from him about his situation and if nothing else, he knows how his wife thinks, what her reactions are likely to be and you might learn from that?

Coco, sorry your last post confused me a little, does that mean he and you have talked about his current problems?  Age doesn't negate the need for a sounding board (or is that just a woman thing?) .
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 03, 2010, 04:26:53 PM
OMG!! Postscript....you do not know the H*** that would ensue if we said one word to either son about anything regarding their wives.

One wife would call me up and bawl me out.  The other one would be so cold and mean I'd die of fear.  So asking them is out.  Tried it.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Postscript on February 03, 2010, 04:47:29 PM
But Chickie your daughter in law is not Anna's.  Regardless of that, the framing of the question is about a potential problem, not about the daughter in law.  I work in law for a living, probably explains why I love a good argument and see/use loopholes  ;)
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 03, 2010, 05:33:46 PM
Not a potential problem but one I have witnessed first hand. 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Scoop on February 03, 2010, 06:01:23 PM
What about the flip side?  What if you talked to your sons to see where you should watch your step around your DIL?  Ask him where the land mines are so you can avoid them?

For example - calling on his birthday.

I hated my MIL for calling on my DH's birthday, do you know why?  She insisted on calling at his birth MINUTE.  the first Christmas (DH's birthday) we spent at my parents house, she called at 1 am on Christmas morning.  We had been in bed since 10 pm and her call woke up my Dad, my Mom, my brother, my SIL (thankfully NOT the DN's), me and DH.  DH's solution was for her to call his cell phone 2 yrs later at 1 am on Christmas morning.  So this woke ME up, so I could nudge DH to answer it.  Now, MIL & I already had a strained relationship, but do you think this made things BETTER?  If DH had asked his Mom to please wait until Christmas DAY - things would have been better. 

In retrospect, I realize that I should not have been angry with my MIL over this - I should have been angry with DH for permitting it go on.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Pen on February 04, 2010, 06:46:50 AM
Scoop, I hear you regarding the late night phone calls on Christmas & birthdays - rude and thoughtless on MIL's part. But that's an annoyance two days a year, and probably easily dealt with by suggesting an alternative. Have you tried talking to her about a better time to call?

Some of us MILs deal with physical threats, loss of GK visitation, loss of relationship with DS, extreme rudeness such as being shunned or yelled at in public, etc. etc. on a daily basis.

Anna, I know what you mean about people who don't want to be reached. They have an agenda and will not budge from it for anything. It's as if we don't exist as a similar life form.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 04, 2010, 06:50:05 AM
All their lives, even when they were in college, we called first thing in the morning to wish them Happy Birthday.  They seemed to love it.......I think I will wait till later in the day now that I've heard this.  Maybe it no longer works.  Nothing does anymore, though.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Pen on February 04, 2010, 07:00:03 AM
Chickie, I know! Early morning is a lot different than late at night at someone else's house. I think you're OK. Now I text DS on his b-day first thing in the morning, and he can do with it as he wishes. He still seems to expect it and appreciate it, which is sweet. I rarely call for any reason, just don't want the fallout. I miss him.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 04, 2010, 07:05:21 AM
I can't bring myself to call them either.....I'm afraid.  I don't know if it's welcomed anymore. :'(
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 04, 2010, 08:11:39 AM
Quote from: Postscript on February 03, 2010, 04:04:16 PM
Coco, you know what your son is afraid of.  Your daughter in law doesn't sound very nice at all.  But Anna, your daughter in law is a good mother and seemingly good wife?  Rather than jump to conclusions about the children, perhaps it would be better to find out?  It could just as easily be concluded that his rabbit about to be devoured look is fear of potential conflict could it not? 

Perhaps when he gets that look you could ask him gently, I can see that you see potential for a problem by the look on your face, can you explain what the problem you foresee is?  It would open dialogue, that way you could learn more from him about his situation and if nothing else, he knows how his wife thinks, what her reactions are likely to be and you might learn from that?

Coco, sorry your last post confused me a little, does that mean he and you have talked about his current problems?  Age doesn't negate the need for a sounding board (or is that just a woman thing?) .
Postscript, thank you for understanding that.  My son will always be my child and loved with all my heart until one of us leaves here.  You're right about my DIL.  I've seen it, but stayed in the background and that seemed to work to my benefit.  He had the chance to make his own mistakes and I truly believe after some time he came to his senses.  Controlling doesn't last forever.

To answer your last paragraph, we have talked a little. I'm not an overbearing person so I don't push too much at once.  He's going through a hard time and I try to let him talk to me as "he" feels the need to - then I respond.  What I meant by your son being 17 years old, was simply that I handled things differently then.  I would have brought the subject up over starbucks (etc) and waited for him to start talking.  We still had the conversations, just in a different way.  I was much more proactive when he was in his teens.  I'm not perfect and have made alot of mistakes, but I am just happy he still see's me as someone who would give him my life. 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: luise.volta on February 04, 2010, 08:13:01 AM
I don't suppose this would work because it takes some cooperation to set it up. But do any of you have Skype? I sit at my computer and talk over the phone and see the face of the person I'm calling on my monitor. That person has to accept the call or can choose to just not answer. There's just a bubbly sound not a ring.

My DIL held up her Skype unit to show me around her room and showed me their yard (Hawaii) out the window. I got to "meet" their little Love Bird that way, too. ..via Skype.

Also, regular phones and cells can be unplugged. So the time-of-birth call only needs to happen once. You could even program in a temporary message like: "thanks for thinking of me at the exact moment I was born, Mom...but we're all getting some much needed sleep."

I also know that when there is animosity, nothing works if just one person is trying. So my ideas on this may be pretty Pollyanna. Just sharing them "in case..."

My personal preference is to not use the phone. I never know if I will catch the other person at the right time. I know that others often don't catch me at the right time and I hesitate to say so. I love Voicemail and Email but that's just me.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 04, 2010, 08:21:34 AM
Quote from: penstamen on February 04, 2010, 07:00:03 AM
Chickie, I know! Early morning is a lot different than late at night at someone else's house. I think you're OK. Now I text DS on his b-day first thing in the morning, and he can do with it as he wishes. He still seems to expect it and appreciate it, which is sweet. I rarely call for any reason, just don't want the fallout. I miss him.
Penstamen, this is a good idea and is what I would do with my son, but I always threw in a "please call me when you get a chance so I can say this in person." 

Luise's post is another great alternative!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Meryl on February 04, 2010, 09:09:36 AM
Quote from: Mominwaiting on February 03, 2010, 01:00:50 PM
I think alot of my DILs insecurity is cause from her Mom,the day they got married my DIL's mother walked her down the aisle.When the pastor ask who gives the bride away,she said my Mom.Her Mom and dad were divorced,and i felt so bad for her Dad.His face was blood red,and you could tell he was in a lot of pain.I think her mom instilled a fear in her about men.And to be honest,that didn't say a thing to me about her Dad,but sure said alot about her Mom!!!.........she must have really unloaded her problems on the children.And turned her daughter against her Dad.



I joined the forum to respond to this quote.  I also had just my Mom, not my Dad walk me down the aisle. I feel there is a lot of conjecture about this situation which may not be based in reality. My father left my family to have affairs with many women. My MOM stayed and raised my brother and me, both with somewhat severe illnesses. When my father was asked to help his reply to my mom was "You have a good head on your shoulders figure out what to do." And she did. She found resources and flew us out of state to two different renowned medical centers. My dad was too busy with the girlfriends. As far as I am concerned, I was already given away, along with the rest of my immediate family. Why should he have the honor of giving away his little girl? It would be meaningless for me. If he was that concerned he could have been around more during my childhood and not just for the big show.  My MOM deserved that honor.

I resent the thought that this "says a lot about her mom". My mother never said a word against my father. She didn't have to. I have eyes, ears and intelligence. When my father was dying she supported my brother and myself in whatever we had to do to live with ourselves. She even put on a spread for HIS relatives between the 2-4pm and 7-9p period  wake. She had them all to her own home.

There was no turning daughter against dad, instilling a fear of men, and unloading problems on her children. I found this conjecture upsetting and nasty. I am aware that I am personalizing this, but after 33 years of marriage the hurt is still there. If my mother in law thought this about me or my mom I would not talk to her either.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: just2baccepted on February 04, 2010, 10:54:31 AM
Meryl, I wouldn't take it personally what the poster said.  Sometimes I felt that certain things personally as well.  But reality is that everyone's situation is different.  Maybe Mominwaiting's situation caused her to think this about the mom??  Who knows.  I don't think she was generalizing.  Hopefully you're not run off for for your comment.  Hopefully everyone can be understanding whether your a DIL or MIL.  Welcome to the site.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 04, 2010, 11:07:15 AM
Welcome Meryl!  I'm sorry you felt so personally about this, and I really hope you will understands that we all have differing experiences.  In this instance, we all appreciate your situation.  Your mother was exceptional and nobody will argue that.  Alot of what we do here in guess-work.  We may not always be right, however when left to "guess" this happens. 

Thank you for letting us know about your mother.  What a wonderful woman to be able to take all that on...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 04, 2010, 11:11:28 AM
Hi Meryl and welcome....

I'm certain, when I sound off about my DIL, it must sound like all DIL's and I honestly don't mean it that way....it's just that we get so mentally focused on what is going on with our own personal situations

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: just2baccepted on February 04, 2010, 11:17:49 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 04, 2010, 11:11:28 AM
Hi Meryl and welcome....

I'm certain, when I sound off about my DIL, it must sound like all DIL's and I honestly don't mean it that way....it's just that we get so mentally focused on what is going on with our own personal situations

That makes perfect sense.  Thanks for saying it!!  I think we all can relate to this comments. Thanks.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Meryl on February 04, 2010, 11:29:13 AM
Thank you for your comments. I was truly surprised how much the comment affected me. I gasped when I read it and it just really hit home. No one lived that daughter in laws childhood but her, and I'm sure she had her reasons for honoring her mother this way and not her father. The snarky assumptions did me in. It has taken me years of therapy to realize it wasn't the little girl in me's fault - it was choices my father made that had nothing to do with me, and he certainly was an imperfect soul, as all of us are. I just haven't had to revisit that place in me a long time and this comment catapulted me there back to the anger.

Thank you for being understanding. I thought I would be over this by now and am very surprised that I am not. I am 55, married 33 years with a 30 ish son and one son who will be an adult in April - at least chronologically. I am trying to prevent mistakes and learn common boundaries now as I navigate adult relationships with adult children.
I could easily be intrusive, but for the boundaries that I am learning. My son is not yet married, so I am not yet dealing with daughter in law and grandchildren, but I just want to try to be prepared.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 04, 2010, 11:34:05 AM
Meryl, one of the things I've noticed here, is that we all say things that sometimes are wrong to say.  We say things we don't mean in a general way, but are saying them out of a very personal and deep hurt.  It sounds like you reacted out of that very same place.

Welcome.  I'm happy you understand.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 04, 2010, 11:36:43 AM
Quote from: Meryl on February 04, 2010, 11:29:13 AM
Thank you for your comments. I was truly surprised how much the comment affected me. I gasped when I read it and it just really hit home. No one lived that daughter in laws childhood but her, and I'm sure she had her reasons for honoring her mother this way and not her father. The snarky assumptions did me in. It has taken me years of therapy to realize it wasn't the little girl in me's fault - it was choices my father made that had nothing to do with me, and he certainly was an imperfect soul, as all of us are. I just haven't had to revisit that place in me a long time and this comment catapulted me there back to the anger.

Thank you for being understanding. I thought I would be over this by now and am very surprised that I am not. I am 55, married 33 years with a 30 ish son and one son who will be an adult in April - at least chronologically. I am trying to prevent mistakes and learn common boundaries now as I navigate adult relationships with adult children.
I could easily be intrusive, but for the boundaries that I am learning. My son is not yet married, so I am not yet dealing with daughter in law and grandchildren, but I just want to try to be prepared.

Thank you.

well one thing Meryl, the snarky assumptions that you refer to, please keep in mind, they may not be assumptions....

also, when your so close to a situation...be it you or us, when a DIL comes in here and starts tearing apart what we say, it's tough to...it hurts....so as much as you took it personal...understand and please see it from our point of views...we have to remain open minded and compassionate if we're going to help each other.

I posted in several other DIL forums where the DIL's came after me like you wouldn't believe....b/c they thought I was attacking them...and I wasn't....

when you take things personally and become offended to quickly b/c of something someone else said, which doesn't even apply to you...it stagnates our purpose here....so, please try and keep that in mind...

I have said many things in anger about my DIL that I truly did not mean...I've even said to myself I hate her...and I don't...but sometimes it's very difficult to like her...but when we say things in the heat of the moment...believe me, we're hurt and angry and don't mean a lot of the things that come out, or the way they come out...

Hugs
and thank you for understanding...
Creme
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Meryl on February 04, 2010, 12:21:17 PM
Thank you for your words, Creme Brulee. I really didn't come to start trouble, and I wasn't looking to pick. As I did say previously, I thought this was laid to rest within me, and I was very upset to find it wasn't. Rather blindsided me, and no one is more surprised than I am. Thank you all for welcoming me - I'm sure i can participate and add something to the conversation. Sorry I didn't start off that way.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Meryl on February 04, 2010, 12:23:32 PM
I also apologize for thread jacking. I'll go and sit quietly with the newbies. ;)
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: just2baccepted on February 04, 2010, 12:31:29 PM
Quote from: Meryl on February 04, 2010, 12:23:32 PM
I also apologize for thread jacking. I'll go and sit quietly with the newbies. ;)

Don't sit quiety with the newbies!!!  Post Away!!  That's how you become a non-newby!!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 04, 2010, 12:31:51 PM
Meryl,
I am so sorry that poster was snarky to you.  Please don't let those words run you off. We know what you mean.

We say things on this board that even we know we don't mean!!  This is all we have, this board. 

I can't believe I've said some of the things I've said on this site!!  Out of pure frustration and hurt and anger.  I didn't really mean a word.  I'm so sorry!!  I know in my heart what you mean when you're talking about memories you buried and with a slap in the face, are back.

I'm so sorry!!!! :'(
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 04, 2010, 12:37:13 PM
Meryl,i'm so very sorry if my comment opened an old wound.Your Mom absolutely deserved to have the honor,she is to be admired!!!My Dil's situation is TOTALLY different.Her parents just went their separate ways.Her dad was always in her life.He fell behind in child support,but got that all caught up.And i just didn't make an assumption.My son dated my now DIL seven years.I have gotten to know her family.My Dil's four other sisters,had their Dad give them away.I have learned alot from them.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 04, 2010, 01:56:35 PM
Dear Mom in waiting...I posted the wrong name on my reply.  I meant this to you.  I am so sorry this was such bad thing to hear...and it was.  Sorry I got the names mixed up!!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Meryl on February 05, 2010, 06:29:11 AM
Thank you Mominwaiting. Sorry I lost my mind. ;)
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 05, 2010, 07:57:13 AM
We all lose our minds occasionally.  At lease we find them again... ;D
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 05, 2010, 08:10:44 AM
OH NO!!  Please don't send my mind back!!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 05, 2010, 08:17:31 AM
Quote from: Meryl on February 04, 2010, 12:21:17 PM
Thank you for your words, Creme Brulee. I really didn't come to start trouble, and I wasn't looking to pick. As I did say previously, I thought this was laid to rest within me, and I was very upset to find it wasn't. Rather blindsided me, and no one is more surprised than I am. Thank you all for welcoming me - I'm sure i can participate and add something to the conversation. Sorry I didn't start off that way.

Meryl, don't worry about it...I was just trying to point out some things...in hopes you'd understand...we're all learning here from each other, and it's very nice to know all the women here, including you...and please note, in my last post, when I wrote you, I meant you generalizing, not meaning you personally...I have a bad habbit of doing that....

If I may, I'd also like to suggest something...you said, you laid it to rest...well, we do....we lay it to rest, and then something happens, we can't explain what triggers our feelings, and a lot of times, we can't control it...but the point of this forum is support...you put your feelings out there, and it's ok to think and feel the way you do....then, we discuss our posts...and try to help each other along the way...and it's the ability to communicate that is so essential...for forging relationships that are lasting....

You will slide backwards from time to time...we all do, especically me...emotions in humans is a darn hard thing to understand...depending on what side of the bed we got out of in the morning, if we had a bad hair day, if our dog threw up on the carpet, just as we were ready to walk out the door, and then we dropped our car keys...slipped and fell....ripped a brand new pair of stockings...and someone honked at us and showed us, (not the ring finger) on the way to work...

LOL...we women are complex creatures...and yet, outstanding...and we are all very significant in the whole of things....

hugs
creme
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 05, 2010, 08:34:59 AM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 05, 2010, 08:10:44 AM
OH NO!!  Please don't send my mind back!!
See? There it is!  That slaphappy humor that brings out a smile!  You've still got it Chickie!

ok, I won't return it....  Just smile at it a little, but I won't return it!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 05, 2010, 08:38:42 AM
Oh Lord!! I don't want it back...gets me in too much trouble.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 05, 2010, 08:59:51 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Me too!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 05, 2010, 12:08:54 PM
When someone tells me to "Get Lost", I have no problem doing that! LOL  :D
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 05, 2010, 12:12:19 PM
That's not happening here Renny! You have too much to add! :)
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 08, 2010, 06:13:44 AM
Dear Mominwaiting,

I see I had alot to do with highjacking your post.  I'm very sorry for that. I know we have alot of women here that may be able to help you with suggestions. 

I for one, am going back through this to re-read!

Again, I'm sorry this happened! 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 08, 2010, 06:25:45 AM
When our son's allow they're wives to dictate to them, that they cannot have any contact with they're mothers...and keep the GC from us...that is so wrong...so wrong....wives are not the boss of our sons, and our son's should be saying to them, ok, I know you don't like my mom, but she is my mother and I'm going to have a relationship with her....I'm sorry you two can't get along, but this is ridicuolous, to break up an entire family over kindergarden stuff...
So, will our sons regret?  Some will, some won't, some will always tell themselves that they did the right thing...however...when you hurt others, as our son's have hurt us...and allowed they're wives to do so...to dictate to them....somewhere along they're paths, I believe they will feel regret and saddness....

I can't believe they don't look back and question themselves, as to how they're relationships were with us before they were married, and then understand the truth...?  It is so heartbreaking and the greatest loss....this for me, has been going on for 12 years, I have no hopes any longer that it will change...while I never wish anything bad on them...this has been unbearable at times...I've not only lost a son, a grandchild, but a daughter as well....and when I see all my friends, and family have such productive relationships with they're kids....it makes me very sad....

I am so thankful for this website, thank you girls and thank you so much for the comforting words, understanding and love...you are terrific girls and no one, but no one deserves to be treated as we have.  I can certainly sympathize with your anger and fears....your broken hearts....it never ends.  It's just an ongoing emptiness inside that never seems to heal...

Love to you all
Creme
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 08, 2010, 06:37:49 AM
Mominwaiting,
You've already tried my suggestion of having them come to see you so you have some time with them (without the IL's there).

I don't know that i know what else to try, but there are so many women here with ideas floating around...

This is a tough situation and I do agree with Creme.  Do you have anything in your area that is an attraction for children?  If so, you could arrange for them to come spend some time with you and take them to the attraction.  Something like a waterpark, or family attraction they don't get to see everyday.  This might be a good ice-breaking event, and if they all have fun with you there, they may want to come more often.  Let me know what you think...

I guess what I'm trying to say, is if you can find an attraction to get them out (the first time), then you can work on other attractions.  They may just not know how much fun they could have with you?  I did this for a bit with my DS, DIL and GK's.  The kids loved it and the parents couldn't say anything wrong about me then!  LOL!  I found attractions and treated them.  It doesn't always have to be expensive.  Sometimes it was simply a cookout, and some waterfights in the summer.  I also took them to a Halloween fair and there were activities and rides for the kids.  Just my thoughts...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 08, 2010, 06:43:31 AM
Quote from: cocobars on February 08, 2010, 06:37:49 AM
Mominwaiting,
You've already tried my suggestion of having them come to see you so you have some time with them (without the IL's there).

I don't know that i know what else to try, but there are so many women here with ideas floating around...

This is a tough situation and I do agree with Creme.  Do you have anything in your area that is an attraction for children?  If so, you could arrange for them to come spend some time with you and take them to the attraction.  Something like a waterpark, or family attraction they don't get to see everyday.  This might be a good ice-breaking event, and if they all have fun with you there, they may want to come more often.  Let me know what you think...

those are great ideas Coco....I hope she can find something to that liking..however, I have found in most instances, that when DIL's are like ours, they don't like it when you take the Grand kids anywhere....I know mine has made many comments, like, I didn't know you did that, or this, and as I said before, even accussed me of buying coke for my GD for breakfeast?  I guess if she isn't going to find something, she'll make something up...I wouldn't give anyone soda for breakfast, and even if I did, I drink nothing but diet drinks, even ice tea is crystal light....sheesh...

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 08, 2010, 06:48:57 AM
I agree Creme.  I wasn't talking about taking the kids alone, but when I did that I took the whole family.  It was a family affair. 

The first of many "baby steps" to getting to know we were all "safe" around eachother and could relax and have fun...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 08, 2010, 06:49:23 AM
yanno, when you think about all this stuff, it's all so useless...is so non productive, heartbreaking and over what?  what?  Does anyone know here what they did, or did your DIL's just start treating you like poop?  And when they find something they can use against you, it gives them more ammunition to seperate our sons' from us...it's pathetic and very kindergarden...

I remember when I was young, hearing about families that were divided for some reason or other, and it used to really hurt me...I'd think, what could be so awful that coud drive a wedge like that between families for years? 

Now, I'm experiencing it, and I cannot believe 12 years of this has gone by...it seems like I'm living in a dream...this doesn't seem real, does it...?  Like we're in a state of limbo, and the pain of this is so debilitating at times...it just doesn't seem at all possible that this is happening...?  That our son's would turn against us and allow they're wives to hurt us the way they have...over what, little stuff...

I still would like to know what I've done to deserve this...

yanno, my son's father told me, if this same thing were happening to him, it would kill him...I thought, ya got that right....I will never be the same, something is gone, and I don't like who I've become b/c of this....but, the saddness is beyond words...and there is no hope here anymore....it's never going to change...

I'm sorry, I know you ladies think I'm strong, but I'm not, not really...I come off like a bear...and try very hard to be supportive to all of you...which is what really helps...so, forgive me if you can, when I sound weak or have weak moments....





Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 08, 2010, 06:57:39 AM
You may never know what you've done Creme, and I don't think it's about you, really.  I think it's more about them, your DS and DIL.  That's just the way I think.

By the way, you come off strong, but alot of us do.  You can only be hurt so much before that "strongness" gets you.  I think that is a reaction to being hurt so deeply.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 08, 2010, 06:59:14 AM
Quote from: penstamen on February 03, 2010, 12:26:50 PM
Some random thoughts on this, since I haven't ever figured it out. Let me know if I'm way off base!

When I gave birth to my first, the experience immediately connected me to all mothers and women from the beginning of humans to the present, in all parts of the world. I instantly understood the anguish/joy/love that is the female experience. I didn't see my child as better than any other - of course, immeasurably precious to me and DH, but that's how every parent feels, I hope. But, all children are precious and deserving, right?

Then I realized that the moms coming along after me often put their kids in a class above all others. Their precious darlings could only play with certain classes of kids; had to win every game; had to come first in school, in looks, in after-school activities, etc. etc. Their kids needed more, were worth more, were entitled at the expense of all others.

Another thing I've been thinking about is the objectification of women. It doesn't only affect males who then turn women into objects and treat them as such, it affects how women treat other women. Am I just babbling or do you think there might be something there? Are DILs turning us into objects that don't measure up so they feel justified in treating MILs terribly?

No, your not babbling Pen, this was to me, and excellent analysis....

Thank you
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 08, 2010, 07:06:39 AM
Wow Penstamen!  I missed that post and it's so very deeply thought out and SO TRUE!

I don't know how the DIL's this day think.  I don't really understand that side of the way things have evolved.  I guess I'm just trying to resolve so much at times...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 08, 2010, 07:09:15 AM
you didn't do anything.....you had a son
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 08, 2010, 07:14:47 AM
Quote from: cocobars on February 08, 2010, 07:06:39 AM
Wow Penstamen!  I missed that post and it's so very deeply thought out and SO TRUE!

I don't know how the DIL's this day think.  I don't really understand that side of the way things have evolved.  I guess I'm just trying to resolve so much at times...

but when you think about it, isn't it ridiculous, I mean utterly so childish...I mean, I could understand if I was a mean person...or have gone by the way side, with drugs or alcolhol...but this...?  this is so utterly unfathomable...that someone could hate you that much and for what? 

I don't buy the fact that it's simply b/c I had a son Chickie, b/c I know so very many mil's and Dil's who love they're inlaws...

when I think of the stuff my MIL did to me...of course, now I understand her but at the time she drove me nuts...but I would have never treated her like this, or tried to detach my husband from her....or hurt her...matter of fact, if my husband would have acted like my son is acting...I would have fought him tooth and nail over it....you don't treat you mother so hurtfully so, unkindly and for what?  For what, what started this?  It is utterly unfathomable to me.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 08, 2010, 07:29:31 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 08, 2010, 07:14:47 AM
Quote from: cocobars on February 08, 2010, 07:06:39 AM
Wow Penstamen!  I missed that post and it's so very deeply thought out and SO TRUE!

I don't know how the DIL's this day think.  I don't really understand that side of the way things have evolved.  I guess I'm just trying to resolve so much at times...
[
when I think of the stuff my MIL did to me...of course, now I understand her but at the time she drove me nuts...but I would have never treated her like this, or tried to detach my husband from her....or hurt her...matter of fact, if my husband would have acted like my son is acting...I would have fought him tooth and nail over it....you don't treat you mother so hurtfully so, unkindly and for what?  For what, what started this?  It is utterly unfathomable to me.

Sooo true.  Funny thing is, I've always warned my daughters that when getting involved with someone, look at the way they treat their mothers and sisters.  That's how you will be treated...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 08, 2010, 07:31:59 AM
no, you don't treat your Mother like that....you had a son, Creme.  If anyone thinks they can escape this treatment when you have a son, think again.

He will allow her to dictate to him what he thinks, feels and does. 

That Superbowl ad, well, 2 of them.  One where the man had allowed his girlfriend to remove his spine?  Yes, that's what they do, it's their job. 

People who have sons and they are little now, believe me, you love that child as much as you would a daughter.  You will lose that child when he marries.  Get ready.

And Creme, if you know of a good DIL and MIL relationship, pass it on to us, I just don't unless his Mother lives in another country and there is zero communication.  Even then, somehow whatever letter the mother writes, will be taken wrong. You can bank on it.

So forget it.

Note: my resolution to be positive and give love back after the funeral lasted ONE DAY.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 08, 2010, 07:33:28 AM
The only time I had a problem with a boy they dated was with one.  He told my daughter to lie to me.  I told her to get rid of him because if he did that to me and his mother both (long story short), she would be next in line...

He's gone now!  Dust...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 08, 2010, 07:39:16 AM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 08, 2010, 07:31:59 AM
no, you don't treat your Mother like that....you had a son, Creme.  If anyone thinks they can escape this treatment when you have a son, think again.

He will allow her to dictate to him what he thinks, feels and does. 

That Superbowl ad, well, 2 of them.  One where the man had allowed his girlfriend to remove his spine?  Yes, that's what they do, it's their job. 

People who have sons and they are little now, believe me, you love that child as much as you would a daughter.  You will lose that child when he marries.  Get ready.

And Creme, if you know of a good DIL and MIL relationship, pass it on to us, I just don't unless his Mother lives in another country and there is zero communication.  Even then, somehow whatever letter the mother writes, will be taken wrong. You can bank on it.

So forget it.

Note: my resolution to be positive and give love back after the funeral lasted ONE DAY.

Chickie....honest, God as my witness, I don't know anyone who had a problem like this...that is why it blind sided me....

All my friends, family....they all have great relationships with they're MIL's...even my cousins....

I mean, there are always, always, family politics...but this, this was unheard of and when it happened to me, it really was a shock....

never saw it coming....
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 08, 2010, 07:41:49 AM
I thought so too except now I'm hearing of past things I knew nothing about. 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 08, 2010, 07:47:10 AM
See how easily this happens? 

Mominwaiting, I hope you read through and extract what has meaning to you.  Let me know if you think my suggestions won't apply to you and your situation.

I'm sure others have more ideas too!  Hopefully something will work for you :-[!

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Scoop on February 08, 2010, 08:04:43 AM
One of my cousins LOVES her MIL.  She will even go and visit her MIL for the weekend, without her DH.  She'll even sleep in the same bed as her MIL.  Another of my cousins has a room in her house for her IL's.  They spend most of their time at a cottage "up north" and their 'home base' in town is at my cousins house.

My SIL is a bit of a pill and it takes a LOT to love her.  My Mom has to work very hard to have a relationship with her.  We figure my brother is getting something out of the relationship, or else he wouldn't have chose her, nor would he continue to be with her.  My father had an especially hard time with my SIL.  We had to talk him down from fighting with her.  The best reasoning I came up with was that if we were civil to her, and didn't argue with her, well, then she had no reason to cut us off and then she HAD to be civil to us and endure our company - a true punishment for her.

My theory is that if the MIL and DIL are similar in ideas and in understanding, then there will be no problems, or any problems will be over looked.  But if the MIL and DIL are very far apart in where they're coming from, and neither wants to bend - then you're in for trouble.

Part of the problems I have with my MIL is that she's so very different from me.  We're similar in that we're both STRONG women, with STRONG opinions, but the problem is that our opinions are SO FAR apart and my MIL will not give an inch.  It's HER way, or she's crying because you 'hurt her feelings'.  Sometimes, it was for something as little as not asking how she was feeling (within what SHE felt was an appropriate amount of time) the morning after she went to bed early with a headache.

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 08, 2010, 08:17:29 AM
Good morning Scoop! (Psshhht)

It's funny how some people are.  It really is just what it is sometimes.  LOL!  My brain just gets fried trying to figure things out and keep the peace.  I guess I'm sort of the peace-keeper here. 

Don't know why? :o (Sorry there's no picture of a smiley face with crossed eyes)
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 08, 2010, 08:36:16 AM
Quote from: Scoop on February 08, 2010, 08:04:43 AM
One of my cousins LOVES her MIL.  She will even go and visit her MIL for the weekend, without her DH.  She'll even sleep in the same bed as her MIL.  Another of my cousins has a room in her house for her IL's.  They spend most of their time at a cottage "up north" and their 'home base' in town is at my cousins house.

My SIL is a bit of a pill and it takes a LOT to love her.  My Mom has to work very hard to have a relationship with her.  We figure my brother is getting something out of the relationship, or else he wouldn't have chose her, nor would he continue to be with her.  My father had an especially hard time with my SIL.  We had to talk him down from fighting with her.  The best reasoning I came up with was that if we were civil to her, and didn't argue with her, well, then she had no reason to cut us off and then she HAD to be civil to us and endure our company - a true punishment for her.

My theory is that if the MIL and DIL are similar in ideas and in understanding, then there will be no problems, or any problems will be over looked.  But if the MIL and DIL are very far apart in where they're coming from, and neither wants to bend - then you're in for trouble.

Part of the problems I have with my MIL is that she's so very different from me.  We're similar in that we're both STRONG women, with STRONG opinions, but the problem is that our opinions are SO FAR apart and my MIL will not give an inch.  It's HER way, or she's crying because you 'hurt her feelings'.  Sometimes, it was for something as little as not asking how she was feeling (within what SHE felt was an appropriate amount of time) the morning after she went to bed early with a headache.

Hi Scoop

your analysis is a good one....I am strong willed, however, I am able and will take more then most, and will forgive easily, as long as someone talks things over with me, and have been told a lot of times, I accept blame, to keep the peace...well, not any more, within the past couple of months, I'm finding myself becoming harder...

I don't know what set off my DIL...wish I did....
but, have many many friends and family members who get along very well with they're DIL's.  One of my friends, has 3 sons, and her DIL's love her....

all families have politics...however, they certainly don't need to lead to something as bad as our MIL's here have had to deal with...it's horrible walking on egg shells, or trying to be friends with someone who, no matter what you do or say, it's wrong....in my case, my DIL looks for things to get upset about...then she plays the victim to my son...when in all honesty....she can hold her own, believe me...I'm always hurting her feelings, when I'm simply being myself....I've had so many gals at work who are my DIL's age, tell me...."She is just looking for things to pin against you", more ammunition so she can convince my son to stay away....

when our son's are old men and they're children are all grown, they will have regrets...I have a friend who does...he says his wife was just like my DIL...he cut off his mother...he said he did it so he could sleep at night...they are now divorced...and he does regret an awful lot....especially all the years he missed with his mom, taking the grand kids over, not to mention, how he says his kids missed out....he tells me, peace at all cost, is no peace at all....

I wish my DIL and I could go to counseling together...and I wish every mil who has this problem, would go to counseling, together with they're DIL's....it could so easily be worked out...it's stubborn ness...the fear of her husband loving his mother more, she wants full control, therefore, cut off his network of support...

I now believe, my DIL set out to do this from the very beginning...my first visit down there...you don't do the things she has done, she has never discussed it with me, let alone appologized for her behavior....and that is a person, who doesn't want to get along...

In the past, I'd have said, ok, a lot of this is me...but not this time...I really really tried, very hard....and you don't do things deliberately to people like she has done to me, like get up and walk out...play a silly game in front of your brand new MIL, to see if you or your sister is going to pick up a guy first...come home, your mil greets you at the door, without taking her coat off, she proceeds to slam every single cabinet door in the kitchen, then storm in her bedroom, pretend to be nice to me, when my son is around, and then snap at me, tell me to calm down and go away...when he isn't there, or when I try and talk to her, she gives me this look and then walks away....but then plays the victim....?  Like I said something wrong to her...and my son, will try so hard to point out the things I did wrong...like, even those things are a reason for her to be so hateful, to keep my GD and son from me....

In the beginning, she didn't want to be around me....OK, fine, so my son and I spent a day together, well, she didn't like that, so she pretended to tolerate me, that way, when they come to visit, she can control the lengh of time they stay with me....

She tells me once, she's coming to my house for Super bowl day...she seemed so excited, I was excited, I thought FINALLY, it's over....she came to pick up my GD, and didn't stay....I was hurt, but thought, ok, she was probably tired...or something, and didn't want to stay....but I never held that against her for life, or for a reason to hate her.

If she'd come to see me tomorrow, I'd welcome her...but she has to look for reasons to stay away....?  Sheesh

It's so freakin hurtful....so sad, and so many lives affected by this, in a negative way...so many people have told me, "does she even realize how much she's making her daughter miss out on?"  But she doesn't care, her hate for me is that bad...I mean, I was told, when the dresses came which that I sent my GD she became abnormally angry and threw them right away...imagine, being that angry, hateful, that you wouldn't even allow your daughter the joy of opening her own gift...?  Then you wonder, how many other packages that you were sending got thrown away...I bet a lot....just like when she used to erase phone messages and emails, not from just me....and my son cannot understand, why you ask him if GD got things, or if he got my email????? 

And yet, the things I've done to her, were so hurtful that she has cut me off, please, give me a break! 

She has been very rude and aloof....and there is nothing more I have to give her.  Nothing...and my son...I keep wondering, "Who is He?"  Why does he allow her to get away with all this....?  Love is fine, but being co-dependent on this behavior?  Keeping a GC from her GM, is so wrong....




Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 08, 2010, 10:19:05 AM
Quote from: Anna on February 03, 2010, 02:11:02 PM
I think I understand the not phoning thing, in my case my dil has made me feel uncomfortable about calling them for anything, even my sons birthday.  I feel like I am intruding.  I am not saying Postscript that you have made your mil feel this way, you most likely haven't.  Or it could be she doesn't like to talk on the phone !!  I still call my son but I am not comfortable or relaxed about it.  My dil makes me feel like an intrusion at every turn.  We really could've used my sons help painting last weekend but I remeber that my dil went balistic the last time we needed help, so hubby & I muddled thro.  We could barely move for two days after, but we did it by ourselves.  My dil has sent the message loud & clear that her hubby is not allowed to help his parents when they are in need.  Different story when they are the ones in need !!

I felt uncomfortable when I called, however, when I wasn't calling her, I felt badly, then she yelled at me, that I never call her..so when I started calling, she never answered the phone...she is always looking for something to blame me for....
she is never happy...

Your DIL needs to be spanked...she sounds very selfish....very self imposed, as most of them are, that are like this....there are some really bad mil's as well....which our DIL's here must deal with....but if you notice, they all run along the same pattern...and just know, your not alone...which is what helped me a great deal....

It's refreshing to know, we have a place to come and vent...
and that those who are here, know the hurt of it all....

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 08, 2010, 10:31:56 AM
Creme, here's how it goes:  "I told MIL she is NOT ALLOWED TO CALL and speak to our DD"

"She disobeyed my wishes and called anyway!   DH doesn't have the B***s to tell her so he says, "she's taking a nap"

"this pizzes me off," says the DIL!!   (Poor little thing....couldn't you just break down an bawl for her!!  What a terrible thing to have his Mother call the house)

Trying to figure out what her wishes are is tedious and takes mountains of thinking. 

A friend of mine, a Counselor friend who I don't see professionally, (good for her because we're too close) said that she has an office filled with Mothers in law.  Some stories are so bad that it makes ours look like a picnic.  I guess we keep her in business.



Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 08, 2010, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 08, 2010, 10:31:56 AM
Creme, here's how it goes:  "I told MIL she is NOT ALLOWED TO CALL and speak to our DD"

"She disobeyed my wishes and called anyway!   DH doesn't have the B***s to tell her so he says, "she's taking a nap"

"this pizzes me off," says the DIL!!   (Poor little thing....couldn't you just break down an bawl for her!!  What a terrible thing to have his Mother call the house)

Trying to figure out what her wishes are is tedious and takes mountains of thinking. 

A friend of mine, a Counselor friend who I don't see professionally, (good for her because we're too close) said that she has an office filled with Mothers in law.  Some stories are so bad that it makes ours look like a picnic.  I guess we keep her in business.

yeah, I just cannot wrap my mind around the fact that there are that many angry people in the world chickie? each story has it's own depth and levels of heartbreak....I can't imagine, I just cannot....
I forget who it was, but the one women in here who said her DIL threatened to push her down the steps...that to me is pretty awful....



Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 08, 2010, 12:02:26 PM
I'm almost positive it was Renny whose DIL threatened to do that.  I think she told her son about it and I think he thought his wife was kidding.  Course, she was!!  What a kidder.

Renny, you correct me if I'm wrong. Please. 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Scoop on February 08, 2010, 12:31:25 PM
Bad form, Chickiebaby.

Please, just leave their garbage over there.  We don't like it when they cross post our stuff, let's not do the same.

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 08, 2010, 02:18:20 PM
Chicki, Yes, you are correct. I was shocked by son's response. I was thinking today that he has had to adapt considerably to be in their environment. It seems anyone that is, starts to have that angry, attack-tone.

His youngest SIL, called me a "B" word at their wedding. I told him about it about a week later, and he gave a look as if "what can I do?" back then. I mentioned when talking to son's b/f, and he said, "Oh, she was just drinking, or got wrong person." I was the only one in the restroom!

My mother and me were only original family he had there and we knew were outcasts. So, instead of sulking, we got up and danced with each other--later, on a "thank you" note, DIL wrote; "Thanks for having such a good time at our wedding." WE just couldn't do anything right? My mom got a similar note and asked me, "What? We weren't supposed to have a good time?" It has been a battle ever since. Excuse after excuse. We were "dirt."
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 08, 2010, 02:25:03 PM
Renny, your DIL is a classless non-human.

I think you've made the only decision possible under the circumstances.   
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 08, 2010, 02:39:04 PM
Thanks, Chicki. I don't know why I ever doubted how I was treated in the situation. I thought well they are young, yada... I have tried over and over and it just got worse after the GC came along. As if, "I got you, now."

I know that I HAVE to stay away, but how do I forget the nasty memories?
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Scoop on February 08, 2010, 04:46:09 PM
But Renny, why is it bad to say "Thanks for having such a good time"?  I don't get how that's wrong.  Maybe she was actually happy that you and your Mom found a way to have a good time, knowing you were surrounded by strangers.

And really, who knows what your DIL said to her M.  When I had DD, I told everyone that I didn't want them passing the baby around, if *I* gave her to them, they were to give her back to *me*, and not pass her around to anyone else.  Hard-nosed?  In retrospect, it probably was.  But you don't know if your DIL said the same sort of thing to her Mom.  If she's harsh, she may have 'threatened' her M too and her M, trying to cover herself said "I let Renny hold the baby".

I don't know Renny, it sounds like some of these things are a result of a misunderstanding.  Did you read on my other post where I said that "if I say something and there are 2 ways you can take it and one way makes you cry, I meant the OTHER way"?  It's a good philosophy to prevent yourself from getting hurt.  What if you assumed she was actually glad that you had fun at her wedding?  How would that have changed your subsequent interactions?

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: isitme? on February 08, 2010, 08:05:49 PM
as another DIL, I agree with Scoop - it is totally possible to interpret those things in either a benign or negative way... so a lot of this could just be a result of misunderstanding. 

That being said, from Renny's other posts it sounds like her DIL is kind of a psycho - I mean, she threatened to push her down the stairs?   :(

But maybe when we see bad behavior in someone, we become conditioned to always seeing the negative in someone's actions.  So maybe sometimes, they're actually trying to reach out but we don't realize it because we're so used to interpreting everything in a bad way.  Hmm.. I don't know - it seems like this could be the case in some situations but then again, it shouldn't be an excuse for putting up with any abuse or bad behavior - either from a DIL or MIL or anyone for that matter.  For example, maybe Renny's DIL actually meant her card to be nice and saying how her mother "let" you hold the baby may have been an innocent statement.  But her sister shouldn't have cursed at you and the threat to push you down the stairs (if she meant it as a joke, that would imply that you have a good enough relationship to joke around.  But since you are posting here, that is probably not the case) is alarming...

 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 08, 2010, 09:32:04 PM
Coco,when i started this post,and i'm a newbe,my first post.If you look at the first page i made a comment...."wow this has really gotten off of the subject."It seem to be going all over the place,so after reading more post and seeing  this,i just assumed thats how you were suppose to do it.I really didn't mean to hijack another post.

Any way,i was just looking for some other peoples perspective.I live alone with no family close by,and with no family or emotional support. i just always thought that was why i had so much trouble dealing with this.but after reading these post and seeing how many women going thru this,with having family,took the biggest load off of me.I am so tired of dealing with this,and i have made a decission to be done with the nonsence.It's just not productive.I need more loving,better functioning relationships.I know there will be consquence's,and needed some input.They have my phone#they know where i live.I'm going on with my life,and refuse to let this take the joy out of my life any more.
My DIL's family has MONEY,i dont.But i have always made it on my own.Before they married,three of her family members commented on what a special bond i had with my son.Well, not any more,and as i read over the post,it will never be again.I lost my job 9 months ago,so i'm going back to school,i'm selling my house,and moving closer to my best friend who is 85 miles away.And going on with my life,not looking back,i'm not angry,just feel i have made the right decission.I don't want to waste any more of my life,it's in Gods hands.I want to have a purpose in life.It's been like a hamster on one of those wheels,going around and around.I can't figure it out,never will,and don't even care too any more.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 08, 2010, 09:47:47 PM
I know. Why does someone whisper a "joke"? Why not let everyone hear? Especially, when I had really fell about a week before on melted snow from my boots and she was aware of this. We never joked. She made fun of my laugh. She called me names. No misunderstanding.

She never got along with her father who she claims threw her down the stairs and called her a name. Maybe she misunderstood?  So, how it turned "funny" with me I don't see?

She mentioned once that she likes to send cards that will get back at someone. Sharp tongue in writing also.

They call their neighbors a POS.....I asked what that meant and the mother said "a piece of ***" (crap). All the rest are "losers."
"Great" church goers. There is a bigger picture here than online. A painful history.


MIW, I am so sorry for hijacking your post. This stuff does happen and I am so glad you are moving forward. Let us know all your new adventures.
I wish you the best.
Renny





Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 09, 2010, 02:16:04 AM
Renny,
Don't second guess yourself about this....throwing you down the stairs is not a joke, cannot be taken as a joke and if her own father did this to her, this must be normal behavior  around there.  You don't kid about whispering to someone that you are going to do them bodily harm.  God help your son.

I truly would hate to live in that house much less visit it.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 09, 2010, 03:43:52 AM
Quote from: renny97 on February 08, 2010, 02:18:20 PM
Chicki, Yes, you are correct. I was shocked by son's response. I was thinking today that he has had to adapt considerably to be in their environment. It seems anyone that is, starts to have that angry, attack-tone.

His youngest SIL, called me a "B" word at their wedding. I told him about it about a week later, and he gave a look as if "what can I do?" back then. I mentioned when talking to son's b/f, and he said, "Oh, she was just drinking, or got wrong person." I was the only one in the restroom!

My mother and me were only original family he had there and we knew were outcasts. So, instead of sulking, we got up and danced with each other--later, on a "thank you" note, DIL wrote; "Thanks for having such a good time at our wedding." WE just couldn't do anything right? My mom got a similar note and asked me, "What? We weren't supposed to have a good time?" It has been a battle ever since. Excuse after excuse. We were "dirt."

See Renny, that is where women differ I suppose, there is no way anyone would call a family member of mine a name and get away with it, I would be there telling that woman, that I never want to hear her call my mother names like that again, it's childish and immature, and that woman is somebodies mother, mine...!  Our sons ignore it or laugh with other family members about it...awful!

I'm so sorry your son is not taking this seriously....and doing something about it....men?  I swear, they will do anything for peace, at all costs....and it's very cowardly...

we took care of them when they were little, defended them when they were right, tried to do our best by them, even if that meant, leaving them go...to experience life...and I believe in this day and age, that isn't important any longer, and you'd think it would drive home, them having they're own children....but it doesn't. 

Just keep your chin up and keep walking against the wind....we've got many mountains to climb....places to go and sometimes you win, more times you loose, however, we are women, strong and are able to endure anything...high five to you lady...in the end, it all works out....and we've got each other!  Thank God for That!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 09, 2010, 03:50:16 AM
Quote from: Mominwaiting on February 08, 2010, 09:32:04 PM
Coco,when i started this post,and i'm a newbe,my first post.If you look at the first page i made a comment...."wow this has really gotten off of the subject."It seem to be going all over the place,so after reading more post and seeing  this,i just assumed thats how you were suppose to do it.I really didn't mean to hijack another post.

Any way,i was just looking for some other peoples perspective.I live alone with no family close by,and with no family or emotional support. i just always thought that was why i had so much trouble dealing with this.but after reading these post and seeing how many women going thru this,with having family,took the biggest load off of me.I am so tired of dealing with this,and i have made a decission to be done with the nonsence.It's just not productive.I need more loving,better functioning relationships.I know there will be consquence's,and needed some input.They have my phone#they know where i live.I'm going on with my life,and refuse to let this take the joy out of my life any more.
My DIL's family has MONEY,i dont.But i have always made it on my own.Before they married,three of her family members commented on what a special bond i had with my son.Well, not any more,and as i read over the post,it will never be again.I lost my job 9 months ago,so i'm going back to school,i'm selling my house,and moving closer to my best friend who is 85 miles away.And going on with my life,not looking back,i'm not angry,just feel i have made the right decission.I don't want to waste any more of my life,it's in Gods hands.I want to have a purpose in life.It's been like a hamster on one of those wheels,going around and around.I can't figure it out,never will,and don't even care too any more.

That was an outstanding post!  I feel the same way, and am in your shoes as well....I apologize that your thread got off topic, it happens a lot here....something you might write, ignites something in someone else's mind...and away we go...it's not meant to hurt, but to help....I've always felt, and perhaps I'm wrong, that by listening to the stories of others, there is always something that can be taken from those stories and learned, at least for me...

I like your outlook lady...be good to yourself and your life....and yes, we all need loving relationships, and you've reminded me, of how many I do have, even at work....I'm very fortunate, and when I become down about my son, dil and GC, I remember what the Lord has truly given me....and you have reminded me of that to...thank you!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 09, 2010, 03:51:41 AM
Quote from: renny97 on February 08, 2010, 09:47:47 PM
I know. Why does someone whisper a "joke"? Why not let everyone hear? Especially, when I had really fell about a week before on melted snow from my boots and she was aware of this. We never joked. She made fun of my laugh. She called me names. No misunderstanding.

She never got along with her father who she claims threw her down the stairs and called her a name. Maybe she misunderstood?  So, how it turned "funny" with me I don't see?

She mentioned once that she likes to send cards that will get back at someone. Sharp tongue in writing also.

They call their neighbors a POS.....I asked what that meant and the mother said "a piece of ***" (crap). All the rest are "losers."
"Great" church goers. There is a bigger picture here than online. A painful history.


MIW, I am so sorry for hijacking your post. This stuff does happen and I am so glad you are moving forward. Let us know all your new adventures.
I wish you the best.
Renny

Renny, that is nothing to joke around about, and you should actually tell you son, THAT is unacceptable....you don't joke around about hurting someone....pretty twisted way of joking to me. 

And by the way, YOU ARE NOT DIRT, your a human being who deserves so much more....do not ever allow anyone to bring you down like that...you are a marvelous caring woman whom I'm very thankful to know.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 05:11:33 AM
Quote from: Mominwaiting on February 08, 2010, 09:32:04 PM
Coco,when i started this post,and i'm a newbe,my first post.If you look at the first page i made a comment...."wow this has really gotten off of the subject."It seem to be going all over the place,so after reading more post and seeing  this,i just assumed thats how you were suppose to do it.I really didn't mean to hijack another post.

Any way,i was just looking for some other peoples perspective.I live alone with no family close by,and with no family or emotional support. i just always thought that was why i had so much trouble dealing with this.but after reading these post and seeing how many women going thru this,with having family,took the biggest load off of me.I am so tired of dealing with this,and i have made a decission to be done with the nonsence.It's just not productive.I need more loving,better functioning relationships.I know there will be consquence's,and needed some input.They have my phone#they know where i live.I'm going on with my life,and refuse to let this take the joy out of my life any more.
My DIL's family has MONEY,i dont.But i have always made it on my own.Before they married,three of her family members commented on what a special bond i had with my son.Well, not any more,and as i read over the post,it will never be again.I lost my job 9 months ago,so i'm going back to school,i'm selling my house,and moving closer to my best friend who is 85 miles away.And going on with my life,not looking back,i'm not angry,just feel i have made the right decission.I don't want to waste any more of my life,it's in Gods hands.I want to have a purpose in life.It's been like a hamster on one of those wheels,going around and around.I can't figure it out,never will,and don't even care too any more.
Hi Mominwaiting!
I'm sorry I mentioned it!  It seems this happens so much here - conversations take a turn and go off on another subject.  Don't worry about it too much!  So sorry.  If you still have unanswered questions, just post the question again and that will help keep the subject on your question (I hope).  Otherwise, if another conversation relates to you, by all means, join in!  We get help where we can.  LOL!

I had written you a reply, but lost it.  Anyway I had to quit my job as a realtor because I couldn't afford the fees and I'm working as a contractor now (temporary employee).  It doesn't pay well, but helps build an impressive resume and gives you such a variety of experience!  When you get to where you are moving, you may want to start out looking there.  Also, this gives you a way to "try out" employers (and vice versa) before you accept anything. 

It's sad that sometimes we have to give up on these relationships, but this may be better for you in the long run.  I gave up on my son and he bounced back!  At least now I can talk to him - for awhile I couldn't do that.  You just never know what turns life will take you in.  I guess we have to learn to go with whatever life gives us sometimes, but I think you sound very healthy in your approach.  Moving near your best friend gives you a personal support system.  That's so important sometimes in these situations, because we tend to take blame on ourselves where there is no blame to be thrown.  Another opinion (especially coming from someone who knows you so well) is always helpful. 

Take care!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 07:18:41 AM
Mominwaiting,  I thought I would add that even though your posting has gone way in and out of the original thought so much, have you seen the posting page?   You have had 793 views of this posting, and 103 replies - 104 counting this one.

That should tell you what a very thought provoking topic you have chosen.  One that so many of us here are interested in...

What a nice thing! :)
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 09, 2010, 08:22:46 AM
Thank you Coco!I have to admit that what you said about hijacking, threw me for a loop,and confused me.Immediately,i thought i had done some thing wrong again.I know this reaction is from every thing thats happened in my relationship with son and DIL.Every thing i say is so twisted,and made into some thing bad about me.It is truly mental abuse.Thats why i have made the decision i have.It's affected me in such a bad way,i can't allow it to continue.

But the positive thing is,it allowed me to see that it was more of a automatic response on my part.There for, you helped me look within,and i can work on that.So don't feel bad about it any more,and thanks for mentioning it............you helped me grow :)
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Pen on February 09, 2010, 08:33:41 AM
I have a similar response, Mom, so I understand. I'm so afraid of doing that 'one thing' that will get me pushed out of DS/DIL's lives forever. That fear overlaps into other areas and I feel like I'm walking on eggshells in all relationships and communications. You're right - this can't continue. We deserve lives that are authentic! We deserve the freedom to be ourselves!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 09, 2010, 08:48:01 AM
me too, Pen...I've become a shell of the person I used to be.  I was the one everyone wanted at the party or event.  Now, I'm so scared to do anything wrong that I've retreated into this person I don't know anymore.

I've never been so confused in my life.  I didn't know where to turn.  I questioned everything I thought before I said it.  Then, I get so angry at some of the silly statements that I just let loose on  here.   It's crazy. 

I have learned something but I don't know what it is exactly. It's all too much to take in.  Trying to acclimate myself to someone else's world just to fit in has been horrible!  I wish I could have taken myself on this journey too but with all that's happened, I don't know "me" anymore. 

What is it that I've done so wrong that I would have to be thrown away after raising the best men on earth?  These men were loved, educated and taught the finest things in life.  So sad....wish I had the time back.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 08:52:44 AM
Well, it looks like we all have something in common.  After being the "bad guy" for so long, we get overly sensitive to others.  I do it all the time.  It may take some time getting used to not being wrong...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 09, 2010, 09:00:05 AM
that is one positive thing about me, since my DIL and I do not communicate any longer, (and I'm not suggesting anyone else do this) but I feel much better about myself....

I felt the same way as you all do....always fearing being me around her, fearing talking....I mean, you could cut it with a knife....when she was in a good mood, it was like a holiday, but you knew, at any given second, if you said one thing, it might tick her off, and poof....funga face(all of  a sudden she gets this crazy angry look on her face)....and then she'd act out....and I'm not exaggerating....they look for things to bring you down....and I really believe, that is what they're entire life has been focused on?  I couldn't imagine living that 24/7?   Can you? 

When we'd all be together, and we'd go out to eat, we'd leave the resturant, and she'd grab him (my son) by the arm, and pretend to be talking to him about something very important...walking way ahead of me....way ahead, and he'd be all interested and they didn't even know I was behind them, trying to catch up....that is so rude....when you go out with someone, you walk together and you talk to each other?????  She is just so darn rude!

When we'd get back to the house, she'd sit on the sofa, snuggle up to him and start whispering to him....and it doesn't make me jealous, it's just rude, like a total effort to ignore me...using him, and he doesn't even realize it's going on...

God, I'm so glad I don't have to worry about walking on egg shells anymore....

I was very hurt when she sent back the birthday card and gift I sent her, but now, I look at it as a God Sent...I want nothing to do with her anymore, unless she gets her act together and/or takes a course on manners and socialization....sheesh...I really know what you all mean....



Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 09, 2010, 09:04:20 AM
Creme, that is beyond horrible.  It is. Somehow we sent the wrong signal about standing by your wife.  We told both sons that very thing.

This does not mean that you treat your Mother like an underling!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 09:07:05 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 09, 2010, 09:00:05 AM
that is one positive thing about me, since my DIL and I do not communicate any longer, (and I'm not suggesting anyone else do this) but I feel much better about myself....

I felt the same way as you all do....always fearing being me around her, fearing talking....I mean, you could cut it with a knife....when she was in a good mood, it was like a holiday, but you knew, at any given second, if you said one thing, it might tick her off, and poof....munga face....and then she'd act out....and I'm not exaggerating....they look for things to bring you down....and I really believe, that is what they're entire life has been focused on?  I couldn't imagine living that 24/7?   Can you? 

When we'd all be together, and we'd go out to eat, we'd leave the resturant, and she'd grab him (my son) by the arm, and pretend to be talking to him about something very important...walking way ahead of me....way ahead, and he'd be all interested and they didn't even know I was behind them, trying to catch up....that is so rude....when you go out with someone, you walk together and you talk to each other?????  She is just so darn rude!

When we'd get back to the house, she'd sit on the sofa, snuggle up to him and start whispering to him....and it doesn't make me jealous, it's just rude, like a total effort to ignore me...using him, and he doesn't even realize it's going on...

God, I'm so glad I don't have to worry about walking on egg shells anymore....

I was very hurt when she sent back the birthday card and gift I sent her, but now, I look at it as a God Sent...I want nothing to do with her anymore, unless she gets her act together and/or takes a course on manners and socialization....sheesh...I really know what you all mean....
It's beyond rude, Creme.  My DIL did that to me once.  I slowed down - didn't even try to keep up.  Thank goodness my son noticed and stopped.  We all know what someone is saying when they do things like that.  Your DIL wanted you to see you didn't matter and were unloved/unwanted.  It was a way of showing you without saying a word.  Do you think your son noticed?
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 09, 2010, 09:07:59 AM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 09, 2010, 09:04:20 AM
Creme, that is beyond horrible.  It is. Somehow we sent the wrong signal about standing by your wife.  We told both sons that very thing.

This does not mean that you treat your Mother like an underling!

I really think, my son has been molded into her way of being...I started to see it, soon after they were married....do you know, he even forgot my birthday?  For the longest time, and I believe, subconsciously, it made him feel like he wasn't being disloyal to his wife....they have a way of making our sons feel disloyal, they completely recondition our sons...
You've heard the expression, if you live with someone long enough you become a lot like them, well you do....it's uncanny....how he excuses her rudeness...I think personally, he is afraid of her....as most of our sons are?  Maybe I'm wrong?  I dunno Chickie?  And I don't think he has any say when it comes to his daughter or doing things that he would like to do...god, how can you work 3 jobs for 12 years, and not get burned out?  And how dare she allow it?  How could any wife do that to they're husbands?  She just doesn't care, as long as she is being taken care of...I really get angry at my son for allowing her to treat him so dispicable...I don't want to see them break up, but in every relationship, you need to nip bad behavior in the bud....he, encourages and enables it, which will be passed down to his daughter...she is actually creating a monster for the man that marry's my GD....she will expect it to be the same way...and refuse to work a full time job to help her husband out....

I'm going to say something else here, which I  shouldn't however, my son forgets my birthday, but they go the extra mile and hire a comedian for his step mother's 60th?  Go figure?  That really used to hurt...now, pssst, to heck with em....and for my past two birthdays, my son sends me flowers....so, that is really nice....



Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 09, 2010, 09:17:57 AM
This topic has been so helpful. I think we are hard enough on ourselves and aren't used to being treated so badly and at the same time, trying to figure out what we did to possibly contribute to the behaviors of a person whose motivation we don't understand.

Yes, we become emotionally bruised and more sensitive, but no excuse for all the actions. We are all accountable.

I get that son had new family and life. I was respectful. But, there was an unfairness about the way I was treated in my limited time with GC. Her family wanted control and I couldn't give up myself on a regular basis. I took some emotional pain and each event would make it worse, not better.

Son complained to me about her family in the past about them calling and coming over too much. And, I said, "they pushed me away a long time ago." Now, I am pushed right out of their lives on a thread. Constant visitation, doesn't mean love. They seem to want to prove something? It is artificial and something I am not willing to be. It is being sacrificed for a GC that is being turned against me. They seem to be unstoppable until son and DIL take real notice of how unhealthy it is. But, I realize that isn't my call.

It isn't winning or losing. It isn't a game. I cannot be included in the unhealthy actions of others. It just includes my son. Call it "tough love", but I believe a healthy person has to let go. You can't help others learn a lesson. It is sad, but I must find a life that includes happiness.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 09, 2010, 09:35:38 AM
There is no question about it, our sons have become robotic instruments now and there is no remnant of the person we knew there anymore.

Could anyone relate to this if they hadn't gone through it?  Think about it, all of  you reading this with kids.  What if your kids grew up and became strangers?   It's horrible and asking way too much of parents!

 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 09, 2010, 09:49:07 AM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 09, 2010, 09:35:38 AM
There is no question about it, our sons have become robotic instruments now and there is no remnant of the person we knew there anymore.

Could anyone relate to this if they hadn't gone through it?  Think about it, all of  you reading this with kids.  What if your kids grew up and became strangers?   It's horrible and asking way too much of parents!



No Chickie, they cannot relate if they haven't gone thru it...like anything else, "Walk in my shoes", but no one can imagine the hurt and loss...however, Renny, what you have said, is totally true...thank you!

I know my son's father once told me, if this was happening to him, it would kill him....

I just cannot fathom, our son's going along with they're wives behavior....they really ought to go to those hate sites and realize, the motives...they'd be in for a real education....

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 09, 2010, 09:58:56 AM
I really do think, Creme that if they went over there and saw what these young women said,  it would be an eyeopener.

Bad form of me to mention it again but since it was brought up, I did.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 09, 2010, 10:08:48 AM
Quote from: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 09:07:05 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 09, 2010, 09:00:05 AM
that is one positive thing about me, since my DIL and I do not communicate any longer, (and I'm not suggesting anyone else do this) but I feel much better about myself....

I felt the same way as you all do....always fearing being me around her, fearing talking....I mean, you could cut it with a knife....when she was in a good mood, it was like a holiday, but you knew, at any given second, if you said one thing, it might tick her off, and poof....munga face....and then she'd act out....and I'm not exaggerating....they look for things to bring you down....and I really believe, that is what they're entire life has been focused on?  I couldn't imagine living that 24/7?   Can you? 

When we'd all be together, and we'd go out to eat, we'd leave the resturant, and she'd grab him (my son) by the arm, and pretend to be talking to him about something very important...walking way ahead of me....way ahead, and he'd be all interested and they didn't even know I was behind them, trying to catch up....that is so rude....when you go out with someone, you walk together and you talk to each other?????  She is just so darn rude!

When we'd get back to the house, she'd sit on the sofa, snuggle up to him and start whispering to him....and it doesn't make me jealous, it's just rude, like a total effort to ignore me...using him, and he doesn't even realize it's going on...

God, I'm so glad I don't have to worry about walking on egg shells anymore....

I was very hurt when she sent back the birthday card and gift I sent her, but now, I look at it as a God Sent...I want nothing to do with her anymore, unless she gets her act together and/or takes a course on manners and socialization....sheesh...I really know what you all mean....
It's beyond rude, Creme.  My DIL did that to me once.  I slowed down - didn't even try to keep up.  Thank goodness my son noticed and stopped.  We all know what someone is saying when they do things like that.  Your DIL wanted you to see you didn't matter and were unloved/unwanted.  It was a way of showing you without saying a word.  Do you think your son noticed?

no, he didn't, he is so enfactuated by her attention, that he didn't even notice.  They reached the car, and I'm still crossing the street....sheesh...he never used to be that rude...he used to be caring...considerate, and thoughtful...many adults used to comment on how much of a gentleman he was....but no, he never notices...that is why I wonder, if when she's doing that, showing him the attention, it's a manipulation on her part...something that she doesn't do all the time, b/c she is all over him, actually, it's kind of embarrassing...we stopped in a store, and my son was talking to the salesman....she walks up to my son, and LOL, rubbing his back up and down, real hard...like she's gonna jump his bones or something right there...I mean, please? 

I really don't believe he gets that kind of attention when anyone else is around, otherwise, he would be more aware? 

But, it happened all the time....that time I went to the movies with her and her sister, they did the same thing...they had paid for the tickets and were waiting for me, when I finally caught up to them...and then she tells my son, I was rude to her?  Come on  hunny, tell me what "I" did....I believe that is why she refuses to confront me...she knows, I'd start saying things that are true in front of my son....I'm not afraid of her anymore....

and you should see the look on her face, when we're all sitting at a table, and if we by chance have a conversation...she never engages...and usually we just sit there and eat....you feel so uncomfortable...you try to engage her in conversation, and she just gives short answers....but what you said, I understand....actually, thank you, as I didn't know what she was getting out of walking ahead of me like that...or whispering to him in the car or on the sofa....she did that all the time...so, good riddens Miss Jealous....oh, and do you know, when this all started, she said to my son....
"well, maybe your mother is jealous b/c I took you away from her"....and he actually considered it???? I mean, I left him go live with his father, I encouraged him to join the military and see the world, to travel, to experience life....I am not a clingy person, and am a loner and he considers that as being a reason this all started....sheeesh?  Are you kidding...I couldn't even see my son taking care of me, that is the last most indignet thing that could happen to me...that I had to depend on my son for anything...I wouldn't have it....I'm way to independent...

I got my knees operated on, and he invited me down to they're home to recover....can you imagine, me being there under the same roof in her home?  OMG....I thanked him and said, my insurance wouldn't network me down there...plus, all the follow up visits, etc...but deep down, he knew that...and I believe that is why he asked, I don't even think she knew about it.

I used to look at homes there, b/c I always wanted to move south....he knew that but before I went there on my last visit, I was sending her pictures of homes, and she wrote me back...(she rarely wrote me emails) and said, "Creme, are you thinking of moving down here?"  He never told her, why? 

Like I'm going to purchase a home near them, get outa here....but she is so insecure, she feared me moving there and me getting some visits/attention from my son...can you imagine being that, that?  I don't know what word to use right now...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 10:22:59 AM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 09, 2010, 09:58:56 AM
I really do think, Creme that if they went over there and saw what these young women said,  it would be an eyeopener.

Bad form of me to mention it again but since it was brought up, I did.

HA!  Curiosity killed the cat! Too bad all of our sons don't have that "curiosity" thing like you do Chickie!  What an eye-opener!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Barbie on February 09, 2010, 10:32:20 AM
Creme- I used to buy my dil gifts for every occasion and never got a "thank you" nor have I ever seen anything, so the last time we went on vacation I bought something for everyone but her. I've bought a lot of nice things for my GD also and they never put it on, one time my son said that everything I'd given her was too big and another time he said it was too fancy and they keep it in a drawer and someday they'll show her all the pretty things grandma has given her.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 09, 2010, 10:56:17 AM
Ya Creme, I used to wonder if son was in some partial agreement that his childhood was "bad" and he felt he needed to be more of an ally with her? I was an easy target as a single mother. She probably played up on any ol mother thing--I made him tie his shoes, ya know--now I am a bad mother? A bit of exaggeration, maybe, but I have heard that is how bullies, emotional abusers get their control by gaining some form of trust through manipulation. Oh, all the psychological mumbo we now have to learn?

After awhile, we stop blaming ourselves, and see that the DIL issues stem from HER. And, I believe, when I backed off, it will come to the forefront even more so. I won't be there to blame. A person would think their life would be "bliss" after getting "rid" of the "terrible" MIL? I think if we live long enough, the truth will prevail. I don't wish bad, I just think dysfunction will runs its course. I just don't like to see children turned against any form of love or to be pawns.

I am so thankful for you all.



Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 09, 2010, 11:21:42 AM
Guest one,same here for me,but i have never said any thing.But since your son told you they had it all in a drawer,to show her one day.Maybe you could tell him what a great idea.I went out and bought a special container,labeled it GD and Gramma's making memories box.That you would like to put those things in it,so you can show her since you bought them.Tell him you have her best interest at heart,and how important it is for her to know a Grandparents love,and you admire him for keeping the things to show her.If he comes up empty handed,maybe start buying savings bonds instead,at least you know she will benifit from them and know where they came from when she gets older.

Just a suggestion
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Scoop on February 09, 2010, 11:43:25 AM
Oh my!  I think these rotten women have a play book somewhere that they all work out of.  Because my MIL does the "walking very far ahead" thing, and she 'engages' DH in conversation so it used to be ONLY me left behind.  Well, now it's me and DD.  This is where I have a problem, what Gma doesn't want to walk holding hands with a little girl?

One more thing from the DIL perspective.  Please remember that just because you haven't seen your GK wear it / use it, unless you live with them and see them every day, you can't assume they don't wear it / use it.  They just haven't worn it / used it around you. 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: isitme? on February 09, 2010, 12:00:12 PM
Quote from: renny97 on February 09, 2010, 10:56:17 AM
I don't wish bad, I just think dysfunction will runs its course.

I second that.

I also agree with scoop that dysfunctional women (whether a DIL or MIL) must have some instruction manual on how to be rude, manipulative and just plain mean.  My FMIL does the same kind of walking ahead thing too but I had never really thought about it.  wow!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 02:34:00 PM
Quote from: isitme? on February 09, 2010, 12:00:12 PM
Quote from: renny97 on February 09, 2010, 10:56:17 AM
I don't wish bad, I just think dysfunction will runs its course.

I second that.

I also agree with scoop that dysfunctional women (whether a DIL or MIL) must have some instruction manual on how to be rude, manipulative and just plain mean.  My FMIL does the same kind of walking ahead thing too but I had never really thought about it.  wow!
Now that you know about it, you can slow down and let her be the only one playing the "control" game.  In that case, they do it to themselves - I just think, "this aint gonna happen."  You can do that alone...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 02:44:55 PM
Quote from: renny97 on February 09, 2010, 10:56:17 AM
Ya Creme, I used to wonder if son was in some partial agreement that his childhood was "bad" and he felt he needed to be more of an ally with her? I was an easy target as a single mother. She probably played up on any ol mother thing--I made him tie his shoes, ya know--now I am a bad mother? A bit of exaggeration, maybe, but I have heard that is how bullies, emotional abusers get their control by gaining some form of trust through manipulation. Oh, all the psychological mumbo we now have to learn?

After awhile, we stop blaming ourselves, and see that the DIL issues stem from HER. And, I believe, when I backed off, it will come to the forefront even more so. I won't be there to blame. A person would think their life would be "bliss" after getting "rid" of the "terrible" MIL? I think if we live long enough, the truth will prevail. I don't wish bad, I just think dysfunction will runs its course. I just don't like to see children turned against any form of love or to be pawns.

I am so thankful for you all.
Renny, as a single mother (for awhile), and the fact that my son was my first, I can tell you that I made "so many mistakes."  It's normal!  If you get blamed for doing the very best you could, under bad circumstances, that is not your blame to take.  After all we're human and even single mother's have to work.  Combine that with caring for your children and you deserve and "atta boy (or girl)!"  Your best wasn't good enough?  Then karma may come back to show her how hard it was for you someday.  My ex didn't pay his child support - I was "it" for my family.  I'm not digging for excuses.  I'm forgiving myself for not being a mother and a father too.  Our sons should be able to see what wonderful mother's they had who loved them enough that we did everything in our own power to care for them, then come home and snuggle with them too.  Let's not forget the homework, school, doctor's appointments and "wondering what we would do to get to work and bring home that paycheck" while the fathers didn't worry.  Single mother's have the worst time coping.  You have to forgive yourself for your mistakes.  If I coulkdn't reach that place, I'd be lost.  I'm lucky.  My son saw it.  Too many don't.

You hang in there and don't let anyone make you feel bad.  You are a hero for taking "all that!"  It takes a strong woman to support a family and still have some cuddling and love left at the end of the day...

Getting off my soapbox now...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 02:48:03 PM
Quote from: Mominwaiting on February 09, 2010, 11:21:42 AM
Guest one,same here for me,but i have never said any thing.But since your son told you they had it all in a drawer,to show her one day.Maybe you could tell him what a great idea.I went out and bought a special container,labeled it GD and Gramma's making memories box.That you would like to put those things in it,so you can show her since you bought them.Tell him you have her best interest at heart,and how important it is for her to know a Grandparents love,and you admire him for keeping the things to show her.If he comes up empty handed,maybe start buying savings bonds instead,at least you know she will benifit from them and know where they came from when she gets older.

Just a suggestion
Oh Mominwaiting what a wonderful and loving idea that "memory box is!"  I absolutely agree! :)
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 09, 2010, 02:48:33 PM
Oh my goodness!!!!!!! I just realized my DIL does that walking ahead thing too!!!!!

maybe we are on to some thing!!! :o
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 02:57:32 PM
Quote from: Mominwaiting on February 09, 2010, 02:48:33 PM
Oh my goodness!!!!!!! I just realized my DIL does that walking ahead thing too!!!!!

maybe we are on to some thing!!! :o
I'm sorry...  I guess it's a pretty common thing for an insecure woman to do to another woman.  Never realized it until now...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 09, 2010, 03:03:09 PM
Well thank you Coco,that was a very nice compliment about the memory box.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 09, 2010, 03:11:21 PM
An dear friend of mine came into town today and we had lunch.  She said that one of her sons is divorced.  The said she was so thankful because this young woman did the most horrible things to him.

She would sit and thump him on the head, non stop.  What an idiot! One time they were together and she started the thumping.  My friend said, "please stop it; it's ridiculous!!"

The young woman said, "I'm his wife and I can do anything I want to to him"

My friend said, "no you can't because he's my son" (my friend is very fiesty"

Then, one thing happened after another and he divorced her.  She started running around on him and that was it.   He's married again to a nice woman who said when they were dating, "I want a man who is good to his Mother, that way, I know he'll be good to me"

He said, "I'm your man!!"

And they lived happily ever after........
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 03:15:42 PM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 09, 2010, 03:11:21 PM
An dear friend of mine came into town today and we had lunch.  She said that one of her sons is divorced.  The said she was so thankful because this young woman did the most horrible things to him.

She would sit and thump him on the head, non stop.  What an idiot! One time they were together and she started the thumping.  My friend said, "please stop it; it's ridiculous!!"

The young woman said, "I'm his wife and I can do anything I want to to him"

My friend said, "no you can't because he's my son" (my friend is very fiesty"

Then, one thing happened after another and he divorced her.  She started running around on him and that was it.   He's married again to a nice woman who said when they were dating, "I want a man who is good to his Mother, that way, I know he'll be good to me"

He said, "I'm your man!!"

And they lived happily ever after........

Oh Chickie!  I warned all my daughter's to look at how the boy's treat their mothers and sisters, because that's how they will be treated.  It's been a Godsend with one of them.  I'm still waiting on the oldest to wake up because her husband is lazy and abusive (my very first post).  But then, my youngest has seen me go through so much... She's 19 and has been on  one (count it 1) date.  I think she's scared...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 03:21:42 PM
I hope your friend reached over and "thumped" her back! ;D :o
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 09, 2010, 03:23:54 PM
My sons were so kind to me.  Just the easiest and best young men to raise and love.  They were and still are, real gentlemen. It was a joy being their Mother. 

I am proud of the way they are...wonderful fathers, wonderful husbands and so well thought of in their community. 

Coco, your Daughter is probably scared but that's good in a way. She will wait for "THE ONE" before she leaps in.  This is the craziest world today!!  You never know about people. We no longer live in small groups so the whole wide world is out there on view. Good for her.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 09, 2010, 03:24:56 PM
She didn't thump her but she spoke very sharply to her!  I don't have the courage to do that!!  I just slump in the background. 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 03:31:15 PM
I guess I'm a little like your friend then.  I would have only watched so much of that with my son.  It would have become unbearable, even if he allowed it, and I would have "walked" home alone - smiling..

I never try to insult anybody.  Over the years I've taken quite a beating (sometimes literally).  You can treat me like I'm stupid, after all, I'm a big girl and can spot "wrong" from a distance.  Go ahead and make fun of me, give me your best shot!  I will think you're just soooo "funny."

I would have to walk away from the "son thumping" contest... There's just so much I can take. 

Chickie, do they sell "wack-a-mole" mallots near your house? :o

Sorry, couldn't help myself...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 09, 2010, 06:27:19 PM
Coco,what is the Jr.member...hero member...thing?
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 06:45:31 PM
I believe that is related to the number of posts you have, including replies.  Don't feel bad, I didn't get it at first either... ;D ;D ;D ;D

If you click on the "thumbs-up" it will give the person you click on a karma point. That explains the karma.  The negative points are related to the "thumbs-down."  I don't believe I've ever used that.  Too negative. No pun intended. We have all had enough heartache or we wouldn't be here...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 09, 2010, 10:09:17 PM
I had another memory today, as I was posting about my mother. She had passed away about 3 years ago and eventually we went to clear her things from her home. Son, DIL, and me. We were mentioning real estate issues. And, DIL, begins to tell how cute she thought the real estate agent is! (A young guy around their age). I am still in shock, and now I hear this. Unreal. I don't know if she was trying to get my son jealous, but it was ridiculous timing. I said to her, "Your husband is cute, too."  ;) My son is just listening. Then DIL says he has a brand new truck and I'd like to take a ride!!!!!! Son just stands there? Here we are standing in his deceased grandmother's house and she is checkin out the real estate dude!!!! I guess that was just a joke, too!? And, when the agent did stop by she was flirting so bad, the agent was embarrassed. He kept looking back at me and son like, "wow?" At one point, he had to move away from her and told her to ask her husband (about whatever it was).

It was like 4 strikes all at the same time; against my son, his grandma, me, the circumstances...I was numb.

Disgrace is another characteristic. That is a poor memory to have at that time in our lives. Whatever happened to manners?

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 10, 2010, 08:41:02 AM
Maybe it's the control thing Anna.The leader of the pack!!!! In charge of all things.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 10, 2010, 10:50:25 AM

My dil does the same thing.  She walks way ahead of me if we are walking "together".  She grabs both her childrens hands & walks with them way ahead of me.  I am left to walk by myself, well behind her !!  It would be nice if she said to one of her children, why don't you hold Nana's hand so she doesn't have to walk alone.  I wonder why they do things like that.  I feel really horrible, & the looks I get from passers by, I can't even begin to discribe.  It's like they can't fathom whats going on.
[/quote]
Anna, I'm sorry.  I've sat imagining how that must look to other people.  Oh to be inside the head of a DIL who does that...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 10, 2010, 11:11:52 AM
One of mine does that too. I think, with her, it is a matter of only being concerned about herself.  I don't think it's a deliberate thing to exclude anyone.  She is very into "just them" and no one else.  That's the way she was raised. 

Her family had friends but excluded all others from the secret society which was their family. It was the weirdest thing being with her family.  They would bunch up, all four of them and if you were at the table eating with them, you were not sure who they were whispering to each other about.  Can't imagine what was such a secret.  They included our son in the conversation after they married but excluded me, my husband, other son and his wife.

They were really odd. Can you imagine?  They made you feel really horrible.

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Postscript on February 10, 2010, 11:20:49 AM
May I ask where your sons are when your daughters in law are walking well ahead with the children?  I ask because usually when we are out with someone older, for example my gm who is just shy of 100 yrs old and still in wonderful health, my husband usually offers her his arm.  What usually happens is my son walks with me and my husband accompanies the older single lady, he's a little old fashioned and gallant that way, it's part of what attracted me to him initially  :D

Whispering in company is just plain bad manners.

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 10, 2010, 11:30:19 AM
Quote from: renny97 on February 09, 2010, 10:09:17 PM
I had another memory today, as I was posting about my mother. She had passed away about 3 years ago and eventually we went to clear her things from her home. Son, DIL, and me. We were mentioning real estate issues. And, DIL, begins to tell how cute she thought the real estate agent is!  ...................

Did I post in the wrong topic? (See full post above).
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 10, 2010, 11:36:28 AM
Oh Renny, no you didn't.  I just didn't know what to say?  I would have been as taken back as you were!  LOL!

Was that a recent thing?  I don't understand why your son would allow her to treat him that way, much less in your mother's house!

Anyway, I just didn't have a clue...  I hope someone else does.  Every comment is a stepping stone to helping us all and we never know when someone is going to give us that idea helping us all resolve feelings that have had us stumped...

I tried to reply, but kept erasing.  Didn't think my ideas were very productive to help.

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 10, 2010, 11:41:12 AM
Quote from: renny97 on February 09, 2010, 10:09:17 PM
I had another memory today, as I was posting about my mother. She had passed away about 3 years ago and eventually we went to clear her things from her home. Son, DIL, and me. We were mentioning real estate issues. And, DIL, begins to tell how cute she thought the real estate agent is! (A young guy around their age). I am still in shock, and now I hear this. Unreal. I don't know if she was trying to get my son jealous, but it was ridiculous timing. I said to her, "Your husband is cute, too."  ;) My son is just listening. Then DIL says he has a brand new truck and I'd like to take a ride!!!!!! Son just stands there? Here we are standing in his deceased grandmother's house and she is checkin out the real estate dude!!!! I guess that was just a joke, too!? And, when the agent did stop by she was flirting so bad, the agent was embarrassed. He kept looking back at me and son like, "wow?" At one point, he had to move away from her and told her to ask her husband (about whatever it was).

It was like 4 strikes all at the same time; against my son, his grandma, me, the circumstances...I was numb.

Disgrace is another characteristic. That is a poor memory to have at that time in our lives. Whatever happened to manners?
Renny, have you ever asked him about this situation?  It's more an embarassment than a joke.  I just wouldn't imagine him saying she was joking to the point the the realtor had to tell her to ask her own husband.  How ridiculous was that? :-[
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 10, 2010, 11:45:35 AM
Quote from: Postscript on February 10, 2010, 11:20:49 AM
May I ask where your sons are when your daughters in law are walking well ahead with the children?  I ask because usually when we are out with someone older, for example my gm who is just shy of 100 yrs old and still in wonderful health, my husband usually offers her his arm.  What usually happens is my son walks with me and my husband accompanies the older single lady, he's a little old fashioned and gallant that way, it's part of what attracted me to him initially  :D

Whispering in company is just plain bad manners.

I agree - on both counts.  You have a wonderful husband who sounds like he is just a considerate gentleman. 

Anyone who whispers around other people should understand that most people will think they are being talked about when that happens.  It's very normal to see it that way.  If they can't say it loud enough for everyone to hear, it shouldn't be said.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 10, 2010, 11:58:16 AM
They live in another town (the DILS parents).  The most dyfunctional group of people I have ever met.  They pretend they are perfect so they talk about others at the table or wherever they are to make themselves feel superior, whispering to exclude you from the most ridiculous gossip I've ever heard.

I'm not interested in the church pianist who wears red panties that you can see when she's playing the piano. PLUUUUEEZE!!  There are wars and unrest, earthquakes, famine, disease and then there's the DILs!

Her family is so strange that one time I walked up to them and was trying to make polite conversation because I didn't really know them and was not from their town.  They looked at me like I was intruding into the Queen's Dressing Chamber so I left.  It hurt my feelings terribly at the time but then I looked at myself and thought, "these are the strange ones, not me"

I don't think of them as uppity but just weird. So weird.

These are conversations about people in their very small town: "you know, Velda is just getting so fat!!"  "Poor Irene, she's getting drunk again, bless her heart"

We're Southern, you know.....so everything is okay if we say, "bless her heart" after we've dragged them over the coals.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Orly on February 10, 2010, 12:12:37 PM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 10, 2010, 11:58:16 AM


I'm not interested in the church pianist who wears red panties that you can see when she's playing the piano. PLUUUUEEZE!!  There are wars and unrest, earthquakes, famine, disease and then there's the DILs!





Chickie,
I just had to laugh at that image in my mind.....Just which one of your DIL's family has to stoop so low as to try and look up the Church lady's dress?  Pretty darn pathetic picture.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 10, 2010, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: cocobars on February 10, 2010, 11:41:12 AM
Quote from: renny97 on February 09, 2010, 10:09:17 PM
I had another memory today, as I was posting about my mother. She had passed away about 3 years ago and eventually we went to clear her things from her home. Son, DIL, and me. We were mentioning real estate issues. And, DIL, begins to tell how cute she thought the real estate agent is! (A young guy around their age). I am still in shock, and now I hear this. Unreal. I don't know if she was trying to get my son jealous, but it was ridiculous timing. I said to her, "Your husband is cute, too."  ;) My son is just listening. Then DIL says he has a brand new truck and I'd like to take a ride!!!!!! Son just stands there? Here we are standing in his deceased grandmother's house and she is checkin out the real estate dude!!!! I guess that was just a joke, too!? And, when the agent did stop by she was flirting so bad, the agent was embarrassed. He kept looking back at me and son like, "wow?" At one point, he had to move away from her and told her to ask her husband (about whatever it was).

It was like 4 strikes all at the same time; against my son, his grandma, me, the circumstances...I was numb.

Disgrace is another characteristic. That is a poor memory to have at that time in our lives. Whatever happened to manners?



Renny,i agree with Coco,i bet your son was embarrassed.

Your DIL was trying to make him jealous,"if i can make you jealous i can have control".

I think she is so jealous of you,think about it,your son was showing you attention that day, going with you to your Moms house.He had compassion for you,you lost your Mom,his GM.She was trying to get the attention back on her.Very shallow,selfish person.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 10, 2010, 12:36:45 PM
It's CDIL (close DIL) and her screwball parents and brother.  Lord!!  I don't care about those things, for Heaven's sake.  Who does? 

They just gossip all the blessed time!  The town they live in is so small that you can't go to the bathroom without everyone knowing about it.

"poor Mary Ann!! her hair is just getting so thin!!" and did you know that their daughter ran off with a guy she met in a BAR!!!!!!!!!!????  Mary Ann has started drinking again and I think that's why her hair is getting thin, Bless her heart!! or, do you think it's because her son had to go to the Psychiatist???!!!  Can you imagine? A Psychiatrist??  I don't know, something is really going on over there!!  I just love them, though, bless their hearts!!!"

(In case you're wondering how I know all this? I could hear them talking even though they were whispering.  HELLO??? We're at the same table?? )

I've always been very nice to them.  They are extemely rigid and really think they are so grand!!! EL GRANDO!!!  I'd rather be locked in prison with some interesting robber or something. At least he'd have a story to tell. 

When someone has to act like they do, they are SO insecure. I know that.  All of you who are thinking your DIL's families are thinking they're better than you are, I don't think that's it.  I think they do this to make themselves feel superior.  They're just making themselves look like idiots.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 10, 2010, 12:38:18 PM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 10, 2010, 11:58:16 AM
They live in another town (the DILS parents).  The most dyfunctional group of people I have ever met.  They pretend they are perfect so they talk about others at the table or wherever they are to make themselves feel superior, whispering to exclude you from the most ridiculous gossip I've ever heard.

I'm not interested in the church pianist who wears red panties that you can see when she's playing the piano. PLUUUUEEZE!!  There are wars and unrest, earthquakes, famine, disease and then there's the DILs!

Her family is so strange that one time I walked up to them and was trying to make polite conversation because I didn't really know them and was not from their town.  They looked at me like I was intruding into the Queen's Dressing Chamber so I left.  It hurt my feelings terribly at the time but then I looked at myself and thought, "these are the strange ones, not me"

I don't think of them as uppity but just weird. So weird.

These are conversations about people in their very small town: "you know, Velda is just getting so fat!!"  "Poor Irene, she's getting drunk again, bless her heart"

We're Southern, you know.....so everything is okay if we say, "bless her heart" after we've dragged them over the coals.
Chickie!  Red panties?  Fat Velda? Irene's drunken binges?  Oh!  Bless her heart!  I'm sorry. I'm afraid I also feel sorry for Miss red panties, Velda and Irene.  I can bet they all feel very inferior around this family. 

When I first moved South I was met with a very unwelcoming attitude of superiority.  Being from a family that has Northern AND Southern relatives, I understand them and they don't see the blindness in those comments - or the rude whispering.  My cousins used to pull me aside and whisper to me as a teenager.  I already knew how that made other's feel (already caught that) and would turn purple.  They just thought it was funny that I was so shy.  I was shy, but I was deeply embarassed for the people in the room who "might have" seen us and thought I was whispering about them.  I can't understand the people who do this continually and haven't thought about it?  Can You?
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 10, 2010, 12:56:25 PM
I'm sorry if I've insulted anyone here.  I can assure you that my intent is to find understanding and acceptance on this site.  I can only hope that everyone here get's that from me as well.  If I am coming across in another way, I hope someone tells me that. 

I love being part of this group and think the world of all of you. 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 10, 2010, 01:06:24 PM
What are you talking about Coco??  Insulted someone?? YOU?? NO!! Never!!  You are not capable of that!!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 10, 2010, 03:28:11 PM
No Coco,what happened?Your very caring,and considerate
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 10, 2010, 03:30:16 PM
I don't know what happened to Coco!  If somebody said something to her, I'm going to beat them up!  Was it something said on here? 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 10, 2010, 03:38:13 PM
I don't know Chickie what happened  :(
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 10, 2010, 04:00:45 PM
Dear MominW,
I don't have any idea what happened to Coco.  I wish she would tell us!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 10, 2010, 07:52:44 PM
Renny,i agree with Coco,i bet your son was embarrassed.

Your DIL was trying to make him jealous,"if i can make you jealous i can have control".

I think she is so jealous of you,think about it,your son was showing you attention that day, going with you to your Moms house.He had compassion for you,you lost your Mom,his GM.She was trying to get the attention back on her.Very shallow,selfish person.
[/quote]

OMG, MIW! You are so right! The attention! She didn't have any control. Someone died, and she wasn't the focus! This stuff is so bizarre. Thank you.

And, Chicki, I am the same way around in-law's. The junk they talk about, instead of focusing on their own "issues." I eventually gave up trying to carry on much of a conversation, because they can't unless they are putting someone down. So then, I was "antisocial." The last straw was my GC repeating things said to her. Then, another cousin to my GD was singing and mentioning all the family names, "Nana" (the other one), "Papa" and continuing along. She looked up to me, and said, "and (insult about me)." In 8 years, they were never vocal or even snotty like that. It all started after DIL's oldest sister was ticked about me not getting anything but card (a week late) for DIL's b'day. Then, I get an email from son's FIL about filling a "bank account" with love instead of money"?

Well, their "accounts" are corrupt. Major virus.

Coco, you are great and very supportive. You reached out to me right away. That meant a lot. I try to get my words in a row, and never my intent to be hurtful. If I ever say anything offensive, anyone, please let me know.

For years after mother's passing, I was so sad about the DIL situation. I am so thankful to be exchanging the ever frustrating feelings I have had for so long. I feel I have the right to be treated good. I knew things weren't right, but "stuffed" my feelings. And, as someone said, the more I tried, the more she would act out.

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 11, 2010, 05:37:04 AM
Good Morning,

I was wondering if the DILs would do unto MILs, the same as they do unto their own parents? Threaten them, insult them, turn their GC against them, teach them to call their grandparent(s) names, limit their visits with GC? Read while they were there? Ignore them? Leave the house every time they arrived?

All this seems to be "okay" towards me.

***
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 11, 2010, 05:48:52 AM
Renny, I don't know about the other DIL's, but I've noticed mine had another set of rules for her parents.  I never made sense to me, but I went along with it anyway.  It was my son's problem to live with someone like that and I learned to let "her" slide more often than not.

That's just me though. I've heard things on this site that I'm not sure I could "let slide."  I'm still flabergasted at the "son thumping" contest Chickie told us about.  We seem to only hear about the really bad ones here...
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 11, 2010, 06:09:37 AM
Anna, my guess is that she knows it bothers you and does it to show you who's the boss. The other thing is that if you could act like it doesn't bother you at all, that would be the best!!

She wants it to bother you...don't let her get her wish.  Don't show weakness around the bully.  That's what bullies LOVE! >:(
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 11, 2010, 07:10:37 AM
Anna,your DIL knows it bothers you,and you even said something to your son,so she is aware of your feelings.Believe me,she doesn't care how you feel.I think if you dont say any thing more to your son about what bothers you,she wont know how to get under your skin.Maybe try saying,I've been really looking forward to walking with you,it's such great exercise for me!This way it gives you some thing positive out of it.And she might decide if it's not bothering you,she really doesn't need you to go with her.

Or maybe ask her if you can help her out by holding one of their hands.If she says no,say you do a great job with your kids,i really don't think i need to go with you any more,you have every thing under control.If you ever do need me for any thing please let me know.

Just some suggestions,hope they help
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 11, 2010, 07:17:47 AM
Anna,
Sounds like a "power play." She may not like getting up to walk the kids, so by including you, she can turn it on you for a chance to say, "See, when I invite you, YOU don't want to be there (according to her rules)." You do this or don't do that. Something to talk to later with son.

They always say, when there is a power struggle it is not usually about what the fight is over. It isn't about walking ahead or holding hands. She wants you present for you to see what a "good job" she's doing. Almost like a set-up. You want to be there, but she is making it so difficult. And when she "let's" you come along, it will be YOU that started a scene. She can show blame. She isn't including you. She wants it to "look" like she is including you, but excluding you at the same time. It makes it look like "she tried" (sigh) but "silly" you in wanting to hold your GC hand!? Like, that is the worst thing you do. Gee, why would we ever think the way we do?
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Pen on February 11, 2010, 08:34:23 AM
As Maya Angelou said, and someone here quoted awhile back, "When people show you who they are believe them!"

These women are rude and spiteful, and are showing us every day how they feel about us. They aren't mature/secure enough to be polite and accepting. They can't, or won't, see the big picture: If they treated us well they'd have a happier husband, happier kids, better marriage, more help/wisdom from MIL, etc. So what's the pay-off for them when they treat us poorly? That's what I can't figure out. Do they get a momentary jolt of feeling superior and must continue the behavior to feed their need to feel superior?

We hang in there so we can have access to DS and GKs. But we must not allow ourselves to be treated like this. 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 11, 2010, 09:37:29 AM
Pen, you are so right in that they would have a HAPPIER husband if they treated us well.  Let me tell you, when my DIL was wining and dining me at first, my son said, "this makes me so happy!  I love that you love her and she loves you, Mom. It means so much to me!!"
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: isitme? on February 11, 2010, 11:00:20 AM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 11, 2010, 09:37:29 AM
Pen, you are so right in that they would have a HAPPIER husband if they treated us well.  Let me tell you, when my DIL was wining and dining me at first, my son said, "this makes me so happy!  I love that you love her and she loves you, Mom. It means so much to me!!"

Penstamen and Chickie, I think you are right on.  that's what I don't understand about people like your DILs or my FMIL - if they could just get along, it wouldn't just be win-win..  It would be win-win-win because everyone would hopefully be happy - Son, You and DIL!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 12, 2010, 04:28:46 AM
Quote from: guest1 on February 09, 2010, 10:32:20 AM
Creme- I used to buy my dil gifts for every occasion and never got a "thank you" nor have I ever seen anything, so the last time we went on vacation I bought something for everyone but her. I've bought a lot of nice things for my GD also and they never put it on, one time my son said that everything I'd given her was too big and another time he said it was too fancy and they keep it in a drawer and someday they'll show her all the pretty things grandma has given her.

It is so sad, that our son's become conditioned by these women, I know, when I sent things, if my son said something negative about it, I knew he was only trying to see her point of view...our son's are caught between a rock and a hard place....

My DIL hardly ever thanked anyone for anything...once in a great while, she'd call me while I was at work, and left a thank you on my machine...however, maybe 2 - 3 times, and never called my mom and thanked her for anything she sent....

Your damned if you do, and damned if you don't, no matter what you do, they find fault, and will do everything they can to make sure you understand, you are not welcome in they're lives....

So, please understand, it's not you personally, they would be doing this to anyone who was so closely connected to your son....and DIL's alike, if your mil's are doing these things to y ou...it's not you...

My heart goes out to all you ladies who are made to feel like this, this, is just so sad and rude and thoughtless....

Happiness at the cost of others, is not happeness....
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 12, 2010, 05:40:03 AM
I don't know where the post went that I was replying to, but I'll try here:

I think that is one of the wisest things they could say, "Ignore me." (don't read, etc.) So, that is what I intend to do. I felt their hate a few times upon visiting, and I plan to stay here where we are actually trying to resolve things and find some peace. If hateful words means "young" then, it is nothing to brag about or cut down our chronological age.

At least we admit to not knowing everything. So, I guess they figure they will never need help when they are older? Talk about "not letting go" ?

That would be especially sad if a MIL felt she had to actually create such a master plan just to see her son. I'd say pretty reflective of a bad marital situation.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 12, 2010, 05:49:55 AM
I agree Creme.....no matter what you do they find fault.It can be some thing very loving and caring......and they twist it,and find fault with it.

Control Freak:
Because of their precarious self-esteem and lack of self control will sabotage everything you hold dear.
One things for certain:
Control freaks are not emotionally healthy

I found a great article about this,very informative.at  www associatedcontent.com

Symptons of a control freak and how to deal with them.

A lot of good articles there!!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 12, 2010, 05:51:48 AM
Quote from: renny97 on February 12, 2010, 05:40:03 AM
I don't know where the post went that I was replying to, but I'll try here:

I think that is one of the wisest things they could say, "Ignore me." (don't read, etc.) So, that is what I intend to do. I felt their hate a few times upon visiting, and I plan to stay here where we are actually trying to resolve things and find some peace. If hateful words means "young" then, it is nothing to brag about or cut down our chronological age.

At least we admit to not knowing everything. So, I guess they figure they will never need help when they are older? Talk about "not letting go" ?

That would be especially sad if a MIL felt she had to actually create such a master plan just to see her son. I'd say pretty reflective of a bad marital situation.

your right renny, absolutely...most women would insist they're husbands have relationships with they're mothers...yanno, kiddo, we don't all agree, or do we all get along all the time, relationships are always a work in progress, however, to be this contrary to your husband's mother, is a sin...and by the way, my DIL goes to church????  Do you believe that....they hide behind religion, so that they're husbands believe they are doing the right thing....and yet, they are so hateful...my son's step mother is like that....she is so evil....and she has indeed effected so many lives in a negative way....oh, she's done good, believe me....but the things she's done on the flip side, are pretty evil....makes you wonder, what lengths people will go to hurt others....I believe she is still angry at me, for bringing her abusive nature to light...and they did go to counseling....but, she really hates me for it all, when in fact, it was her own doing....

My son also makes excuses for her behavior and defends her to the hilt....sheesh....he refuses to see, the control she has over his father and how nagging she is....

but, he will blame himself or me first for any wrong doing when it comes to her or his wife? 

If you young girls remember anything from these forums, please remember, when your children grow up with parental influences, that are insecure like my son's stepmother, and watch they're father's take that...they will do the same and choose, someone who is also insecure..because that is all they know, and deem it normal behavior...so be very careful what your children see....they will parrot us...

When I first left my husband, my son went to counseling with me a few times....and when I was telling the counselor, how my husband used to put me down all the time in front of others, my son, said, he never noticed and for years I was shocked....then realizing, he deemed it normal, b/c his step mother always does that to his father....she runs the show and needs center stage at all times....

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 12, 2010, 06:05:25 AM
Quote from: Mominwaiting on February 12, 2010, 05:49:55 AM
I agree Creme.....no matter what you do they find fault.It can be some thing very loving and caring......and they twist it,and find fault with it.

Control Freak:
Because of their precarious self-esteem and lack of self control will sabotage everything you hold dear.
One things for certain:
Control freaks are not emotionally healthy

I found a great article about this,very informative.at  www associatedcontent.com

Symptons of a control freak and how to deal with them.

A lot of good articles there!!
Hi Mominwaiting!

Why don't you go into the internet folder and post this, so everyone gets the address? 

We need all the help we can get.   :)
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 12, 2010, 07:59:52 AM
Quote from: Postscript on February 03, 2010, 03:31:11 PM
Coco that begs the question, what in the world has he gotten himself into and what exactly is he afraid of? 

It's painfully clear that my husband is not afraid of me.  When I tell him don't make me beat you, he laughs in my face  ???

Seriously though, what IS he afraid of? Conflict? Abuse?

Pen: 

I'm finding this conversation very interesting....he is afraid of conflict, and wants peace....I was talking to a friend of mine, who went thru this exact same thing, he cut off his mother for his wife, and when I asked him why he did that, his reply was..."it was the easiest thing for me to do, so I could sleep at night".  He and his wife are now divorced...his own children refuse to speak to they're mother, unless she gets counseling and she refuses.

Anyway, you do have extreme cases, where no matter what you do, your wrong...

I've read about resistence, acceptance, and it makes sense...if we can seperate our minds from our egos of resistence, a lot of times, we can work through relationships...but in the case where your dealing with someone who is constantly rejecting you, well, it is what it is...nothing can be done or worked out, it takes two people willing to do so.

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 12, 2010, 04:18:47 PM
I was just thinking of the upbringing of sons and daughters, and how I still believe it is totally different messages.

I always told son it is not just the girl's fault for sex or just her responsibility. It is the man's, too. Maybe the "responsibility" part crossed the line for him? It doesn't mean be responsible for everything she does or take abuse. Just sharing some attempt at mother's guilt.  ;)

Tryin to rationalize? Analyze?  ::)
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 12, 2010, 04:27:11 PM
HA!  That's the same thing I raised my son with!  Maybe there's a link.  I've never thought about that!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: renny97 on February 12, 2010, 05:30:29 PM
How do I put picture of something else for Icon to the left? I am a yellow square, yeah. I am square, but ya know.....
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 12, 2010, 05:34:01 PM
Quote from: renny97 on February 12, 2010, 05:30:29 PM
How do I put picture of something else for Icon to the left? I am a yellow square, yeah. I am square, but ya know.....
I'll have directions posted with the other directions in Luise's "Forum Support' folder soon.  Don't print them out, yet but when you see a smiley face at the end... It's ready to read and print! 

I just do this by going in and out and editing as I check....  LOL!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: peggyrice@triad.rr.com on February 14, 2010, 03:17:54 PM
My father and I were estranged for about a decade before he was diagnosed with brain cancer.  We spent a lot of good time together before he passed on.  My regret when he died was that we wasted all those so very valuable years....we should have spent time with each other and when he was gone, it was too late.  I still think of him when I wrestle with a problem - I try to imagine what his advice would be.  Our son's, unless they have lost their hearts, will have regrets about the way they are treating us.......
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 15, 2010, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: Mominwaiting on February 11, 2010, 07:10:37 AM
Anna,your DIL knows it bothers you,and you even said something to your son,so she is aware of your feelings.Believe me,she doesn't care how you feel.I think if you dont say any thing more to your son about what bothers you,she wont know how to get under your skin.Maybe try saying,I've been really looking forward to walking with you,it's such great exercise for me!This way it gives you some thing positive out of it.And she might decide if it's not bothering you,she really doesn't need you to go with her.

Or maybe ask her if you can help her out by holding one of their hands.If she says no,say you do a great job with your kids,i really don't think i need to go with you any more,you have every thing under control.If you ever do need me for any thing please let me know.

Just some suggestions,hope they help

I agree, these women are very calculating....very manipulative!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 15, 2010, 09:01:34 AM
Quote from: guest1 on February 09, 2010, 10:32:20 AM
Creme- I used to buy my dil gifts for every occasion and never got a "thank you" nor have I ever seen anything, so the last time we went on vacation I bought something for everyone but her. I've bought a lot of nice things for my GD also and they never put it on, one time my son said that everything I'd given her was too big and another time he said it was too fancy and they keep it in a drawer and someday they'll show her all the pretty things grandma has given her.

I hear ya....they never say thank you....they have neither social skills or know how to be polite....but in front of my son, she always says, I'll send this to you, or that to you, and it never happened....

and yes, my son made comments like that as well....do you know, that I sent my GD a 300.00 water slide for her birthday.  When they first got it, my son was all happy and couldn't wait to set it up for her....well, next time we discussed the water slide, he made some kind of negative comment....which was her talking, and it was no where to be seen, the next time I went down to visit...and my son said, he was going to set it up so I could see it and enjoy my GD using it....but nope...they want to take all happiness from you....

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 15, 2010, 09:02:26 AM
Quote from: Carolina Gal on February 14, 2010, 03:17:54 PM
My father and I were estranged for about a decade before he was diagnosed with brain cancer.  We spent a lot of good time together before he passed on.  My regret when he died was that we wasted all those so very valuable years....we should have spent time with each other and when he was gone, it was too late.  I still think of him when I wrestle with a problem - I try to imagine what his advice would be.  Our son's, unless they have lost their hearts, will have regrets about the way they are treating us.......

I'm so so sorry about your dad and all that lost time, but thank God you reconciled and did have some great time together....

hugs
Creme
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 15, 2010, 05:15:57 PM
Anna,I try to put a positive spin on things any more.I didn't always do that,but it sure seems to help.After 6 yrs of My DIL's mood swings and inappropriate remarks and behavior,it helps me cope a lot better.I always felt not good enough around Dil and her family.The money factor plays a big part,they have money,and come across as better than other people.I don't and wont get into the "who's the better parent or Grandparent game".After so many years of being hurt and greatly dissappointed,i really started thinking about my situation.I never get any holidays,i feel shoved out of my sons life,and very disrespected by DIL.It's not fair,but there is nothing i can do.So a little over a year ago,when talking to my son on the phone,i had a "light bulb" moment.I told him how successful i felt as a parent.He ask me why?I told him,because you treat her parents with love and respect,you care about them like they were your own.There was no amount of money,or collage taught you that,that was your up bringing and i was very proud of him for having such a warm caring spirit towards her family,thats the way it should be.
I still don't get any holidays,and i make all the phone calls,but at least,ever since i said this my DIL has been more pleasant toward me,yes i still see mood swings,but she has not verbally attacked me,it's like she is trying to get a grip on her behavior.She gets real tense looking,but keeps her mouth shut,then the mood changes back to more pleasant.
At least this is a start in the right direction,maybe,just maybe in time i can have some holidays.I have seen them 4 times since i told my son that,so she is 4 for4 on better behavior.......just hope it continues!!!!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: peggyrice@triad.rr.com on February 15, 2010, 05:37:36 PM
Creme,  I also have bought my DIL so many things - to help - and just to make her happy.  She did not thank me either.  I just told myself that she was excited and forgot or something.  I felt content that I was doing the right thing.  Now that she has told me off and acted to disrespectful, I will not be so eagar to do anything for her again.  If things do improve in the future, I do not think I will ever feel that I can trust her - nor will I feel generous towards her.  I think it unwise to reward the bad behavior too.  The maturity level is just really low.....Jeckle and Hyde is something that ruins trust for me.  I even try to make friends that are somewhat consistent.  If you can not have trust - do you have a relationship worth investing in?
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cremebrulee on February 16, 2010, 04:41:08 AM
Quote from: Carolina Gal on February 15, 2010, 05:37:36 PM
Creme,  I also have bought my DIL so many things - to help - and just to make her happy.  She did not thank me either.  I just told myself that she was excited and forgot or something.  I felt content that I was doing the right thing.  Now that she has told me off and acted to disrespectful, I will not be so eagar to do anything for her again.  If things do improve in the future, I do not think I will ever feel that I can trust her - nor will I feel generous towards her.  I think it unwise to reward the bad behavior too.  The maturity level is just really low.....Jeckle and Hyde is something that ruins trust for me.  I even try to make friends that are somewhat consistent.  If you can not have trust - do you have a relationship worth investing in?

Hi there CG and good morning
Trust has to be earned...I wouldn't be able to ever trust my DIL again...she has deliberately done, way to many hurtful things, and her motives were very evident....

You don't intentionally do or say things to hurt people....that to me is unstable...and I have to ask, what lengths would that person go to, if they are that deceiptful...hateful....in the beginning, my DIL actually did scare me...now, I'm just very disappointed in her...frustrated and want nothing to do with her, unless she changes...and that will never happen.

by the way, I love the pic of you.....

hugs
Creme

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: tillykilly on February 21, 2010, 04:49:58 AM
hi mominwaiting...thanks for your reply to my 'sadness'...what a good question and one i have often asked as before my sons met their wives they were mostly loving, sharing, caring humans beings...not the people i have come to know, but i believe are heavily influenced by their partners...it think it has quite a bit to do with the generation thing....i am turned 60 and when i started out i knew absolutely nothing about control,power, ego tripping and such like, but knew instinctively everything aabout love respect and humility....it is a whole new ball game...dil have the upper hand, if it goes tits up in the sons marriage it is he who loses everything,...while are possibly a good tool for them to meet and divert attention in other areas that married men often try on....but women that are the proverbial 'butch' please excuse terminology, then motherhood wont change that...they are the person they are, and that is how they get and keep the best of what we gave....our sons, i think they know what is going on all too well, but men will stick their head in the sand...they are assured of their mothers love unconditionally....their wives ....another story..blessings...all in my thoughtsx
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 21, 2010, 05:39:18 AM
Dear Tilly,
At first, it takes a lot of courage for the sons to turn on us but over time, it becomes easier and easier.  The wife whispers to him about how we really are and soon, all our shortcomings are believed by him. (not that I don't have any)  Men are just that way.

One time, when one of my DILs had behaved so badly that it was glaring to everyone else, our son got on the phone and told me all the secrets I had told the DIL, pointing to how bad they were.

Like one of my friends, who I  like but is so boring...I told DIL about that, never meaning it as a slap against the friend, , just a comment.  He told me that I had relationship problems. 

Then, after listing all my faults to me over the phone, he called to her in the background for more information on me.  I could hear her in the background which I'm sure made her very mad at him.  Included in the list, was another friend that I told the DIL I was really tired of her calling every day with her thoughts about neuron transmitter stories. (I don't really understand neuron transmitters and don't want to.  I'm sorry, just find it terribly boring going on and on about something like this)

It was so hard to hear her in the background giving him instructions.  Such a betrayal of me. I would never do that to her.

The list is endless but the goal is to get the MIL out of the picture.  The more information they can get out of you/me, the more ammo they have to give him.

Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 21, 2010, 06:46:45 AM
Actually, Chickie - she probably loved the idea of you hearing her in the background.  That's a sad thought, but I went through many conversations over the phone with my son, listening to my DIL in the background telling him what the responses to my questions were.  I could be wrong, but I believe this makes the DIL's who are controlling this way feel powerful.

Just my thoughts.  I know they are negative, but I have pondered this subject so much! :-[
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 21, 2010, 07:00:22 AM
I wish the women didn't feel like they must be in control and just let us love them.  If they don't want us to love them, at least like them.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 21, 2010, 07:36:36 AM
I understand!  Believe me I do!  It's a problem with them and we can't take it on ourselves, because we really aren't to blame for someone else's insecurity.  I have thought of nothing to help other than to let go, hoping someday things in their situations will change and they will come back.  All we can do is go on and as tilly put it - keep standing, hopefully standing well.

Hang in Chickie and know we all love you here!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Pen on February 21, 2010, 08:28:54 AM
I also feel that way. We can work on ourselves and our hurt so we can get on with our lives, but the simple fact remains that we miss our sons because of someone else's bizarre needs. If DILs could only see how much richer and happier their marriages and lives would be if they could tolerate/accept us, things might change. Some days I have hope, some days it's more difficult.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 21, 2010, 08:38:23 AM
Mominwaiting, I think you have the right idea.  I just read your post - reply #165, and it's interesting how things changed a little when you changed your perception.  I'm going to take that advice! 
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 22, 2010, 05:33:38 PM
Coco,it has seemed to help.And i am proud that my son is good to my DIL and her family.I'm grateful he is a wonderful husband and father.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 22, 2010, 06:10:35 PM
Your perception has changed since you've been here!  I can see that, and it shows in your posts as well.  I'm glad you are able to accept the wonderful son you raised and see where you fit in there!  I hope you have more good news to come and much more happiness to look forward to!

Your advice is compassionate and loving to the women here as well, and yes, I believe you have a gift!  I have watched you tweak it! :)
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 25, 2010, 05:10:18 PM
Thank you Coco,for your kind words. :)
I have always loved helping people, it's just the way i am.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 25, 2010, 05:15:57 PM
Then, you are such a perfect fit here!  I will look forward to seeing you bloom here and make everyone smile!  We all deserve that and someone who likes helping other people, sometimes ends up helping themselves in that effort.  It's a win-win here! 

We need more "you's" here!
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 25, 2010, 05:19:29 PM
Well thank you again Coco,you are the sweetest thing.
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 28, 2010, 02:21:09 PM
Thank you, Mominwaiting! I just know there are good things coming for you!  You hang in there, but keep us posted!  I love good news, especially when I get to hear about it happening and watch you smile!  We all do!

I see more hope in your posts.  That's a good thing and you are sharing that feeling with us all!  Next thing I know, I'll be reading your post in "Success Stories!"

Feel that?  I'm hugging you! :)
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: Marilyn on February 28, 2010, 04:36:02 PM
Yes i felt that hug........nothing better than hugs from my e-friends!!!!! :)

What a wonderful thing that would be...........writing a success story!!!  :)

I'm praying it will turn out that way,for all of us!!!! :)
Title: Re: Do our sons ever have regrets
Post by: cocobars on February 28, 2010, 05:10:44 PM
Mominwaiting, what a nice thought!  LOL!  If we could all do that - then I would definately look into Dr. Phil, so I could tell him he was wrong about the MIL's out there! 

Thanks for that thought!  I'll be having sweet dreams all night long!! ;D

Awe shucks!  Here's nuther hug!  You deserve it anyway!!! ;D