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Problem Solving => Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters => Topic started by: shiny on November 12, 2014, 10:12:00 PM

Title: Which way to turn
Post by: shiny on November 12, 2014, 10:12:00 PM
Right now I'm like a deer caught in headlights...stunned.
Be
My AD has some sort of mental health problem so it's hard to reason with her.
We see her every few months and she just visited us several days ago. The visit seemed pleasant, and thought all was well. Said she would come for Thanksgiving.

Tonite I get email from her that she is not going to be part of the family any more b/c we did not stand up for her, but favored her DH over her.
This all came about because I emailed her DH and asked him for GC's clothing size. They've been separated for six years and the GC live with him.
Things are getting rather heated lately --probably headed towards divorce, and she's been out of control.
We really do stay out of their business and don't ask any personal questions. We've tried to not take sides, either and let them work out their issues without our interference.
We want to be a support for AD, yet she thinks irrationally. Would you call her blufff (or it may be real) and just leave her alone? I guess that means no contact anymore? I don't know what it means when she says she didn't want to be part of the family anymore.
I'm so weary of all the drama, her hurtful comments and threats to leave the family over some wrong perception of a small matter.
It just seems so wrong to turn your back on a troubled child. But I need to think about my sanity.
Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: luise.volta on November 12, 2014, 11:01:15 PM
S., my take it that you see a professional counselor to help you through this. Sending hugs...
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: shiny on November 13, 2014, 04:22:24 AM
Luise, sorry for double post. Can one be removed? When I hit post button the first time, it seemed jammed so I sent it again.
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: luise.volta on November 13, 2014, 10:29:36 AM
Done. No problem!
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: shiny on November 13, 2014, 04:41:29 PM
Luise, wondering why you said to see a professional since the forum can offer wise opinions?
Does my situation seems more bizarre than the others?
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: luise.volta on November 13, 2014, 05:48:44 PM
It was just a feeling I had, S. The forum offers a lot and at times I feel like a one-on-one focus would help and offer a gentle nudge in that direction. I have no way of knowing, really.
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: shiny on November 13, 2014, 06:00:12 PM
Thanks, Luise. I really appreciate all that you do for this forum, and as Pen said in a recent post, this place has been a life raft for me, too. I may have to get some pro counsel before it's over, but really don't want to cough up the extra money necessary to do so right now. I do value your opinion very much.
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: Stilllearning on November 14, 2014, 05:08:16 AM
Shiny, you refer to your daughter as a child but she is definitely an adult.  Under no circumstance should respecting her wishes be construed as "turning your back" on her.  Give her what she wants with a clear conscience and learn to enjoy the absence of drama in your life.  It is a win win situation and once she finds out that to you her presence is nice but not necessary it may turn into a win win win.
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: shiny on November 14, 2014, 05:53:45 AM
SL, thanks for your insight -- extremely valuable!

You're right -- she's an adult. A forty-year old one, at that.
So separating myself from her chaos is not like leaving a young child. hmmm.

Since my original post a day ago, she has sent me three emails directing horrible comments towards me. Said she did not want a relationship with me and to never call or email her again.

I tried calling her to discuss her issue with me in a reasonable manner, and she won't answer.
I responded to her emails with kindness, trying to help her see that her thinking is flawed.
And that's when she told me she's done with the relationship.

The ONLY reason I've attempted to make peace with her is for the GCs (in their teens).
We're very close to them.
If it were just about her, I would not have tried so hard or even responded to her ugly emails.
But now, who knows what will happen?
It's out of my hands.

One thing that has stunned me, is the language and comments she has made towards me.
She was raised better than that in a loving home.

Me? I was raised in an abusive home filled with domestic violence, from both parents.
And I've never said anything to either of them like she has to me.
Not sure if it was fear that kept me from talking ugly to them, but I did have a deep sense of respect, even though they didn't deserve it.

This is one thing that has blown me away -- she has NO respect for her parents who have been there for her, every step of the way.

I'm all for putting this behind me, like you said, and giving her what she wants.
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: Stilllearning on November 14, 2014, 06:27:18 AM
IMHO......If your GC are like most teens what their mother has to say will not have much to do with what they think or do.  Be ready for them to show up sans their Mom and try to think of ways to talk to them that will not place blame on their only mother.  Do not look on this as the end of anything, your DD is more like the petulant two year old trying to hold their breath till they die.  Deep breaths and time are what is needed.  Hang in there!!
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: Boudica on November 15, 2014, 01:54:00 AM
Dear S.,

Please believe me when I say that thinking of my children as if they were children even after they had grown up was one of the biggest mistakes I made in this whole mess.  By doing this I just perpetuated their adolescent personalities.  For years, people were stunned when they caught the first glimpse of how my children where when they were at my house as opposed to who they were out in the world.  For the most part they were cordial, respectful and kind to others.  Even my oldest son has the reputation of being incredibly charming until you really get to know him (classic narcissistic trait). The minute they hit my door they would act like spoiled, disrespectful six year olds who had shed any thought for how their behavior or words effected others. Still locked in "mom" mode, I treated them as if they were little ones having a bad day instead of addressing them like adults that were acting like jackasses. 

I would try to talk to them and "correct" the behavior instead of holding them accountable for it.  I realize now this was just a huge sign that I wasn't accepting that this WAS their behavior.  I was still thinking of it as something they were "trying out".  In other words, I was still trying to parent them.  Well, they are grown men.  They didn't need parenting.  They needed to be held accountable.  It was a pretty hard shock to look back now and see that I was just about the ONLY person they treated like this on a consistent basis.  Why?  Because I had kept the dynamics of our relationship firmly in their child phase.  So, when they got around me, they acted like children.  They either ran to "mommie" when they needed something or wanted me to fix something, or they were mean, thoughtless, angry, vindictive, vengeful, hurtful children.  It created a love/hate relationship.  They loved having someone they could run to but they also resented me once they were ready to go back to their world because it made them feel less than adult.

Allowing the ties to be cut and walking away had two benefits in my mind.  One, it will force my children to accept their adulthood totally.  If there is no where they can run to and revert to being children with no cares, responsibilities or retributions then they will eventually HAVE to face the people they have become and the problems it makes for them.  And that's generally the only way someone will change.  And two, it has liberated me from constantly having to be in the role of "mommie".  I don't want to be a "mommie" for the rest of my life. It's exhausting.  I want to be mom and Gmom.  So, as the final act as their parent, I've turned them over to the worlds their attitudes, prejudices, and actions are making. 

I agree that counseling will help immensely.  I came from an abusive home as well and having someone to talk to helped me realize the reason I kept "parenting" was because I was trying to make up for what I had lacked.  I needed mothering.  At least the child inside me did.  And like most women, I tried to fix what was broken and hurt in my by turning all that focus and love on someone else.  If you shop around, you can probably find someone who will fit into your budget and it is well worth the investment. 

Good luck. 

p.s.  sorry it's so long.  B.
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: luise.volta on November 15, 2014, 09:23:12 AM
My youngest son, who is our Webmaster, was here yesterday. He is 60 years old and still my 'child'...in my heart. I still want to fix things and make them better...kiss the 'owie' and put a Superman Bandaid on it. Believe me, it never goes away! As long as I don't act on it...which he would stop in a New York Minuite...I think he honestly knows that and it's OK.

Still when he was a young adult and needed money, I only loaned him what I could afford and insisted on a spoken contract. He knew the rules, 'default and it's your last loan'. He never did.

What is funny...and none of you are there yet, is since I will be completing my 88th year in March and starting my 89th...he has appointed himself my 'parent.' LOL! He keeps a watchful eye on me, more so since I stopped driving at 85, and is becoming very 'parental'!  :D
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: shiny on November 16, 2014, 11:53:40 AM
L, you are too funny!
So, what's your 'parent' son using to keep you in line? Do you get time-outs? hehe.
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: luise.volta on November 16, 2014, 12:57:24 PM
S. I don't think even Kirk is so ambitious that he has any hope of keeping me in line!!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: Pooh on November 17, 2014, 06:18:26 AM
Since you said you were tired of the drama, then my initial reaction is "Yes", call her bluff.  But calling her bluff can mean different things.  Calling her bluff could be not responding and just continue on with your plans without including her.  If she shows up, a simple, "Oh, I didn't know you were coming any longer."  Or calling her bluff could be answering back her email and saying, "Ok.  I hate that you think that by providing for your children I am picking sides, but that's your prerogative.  It has nothing to do with you or DH, but the GC."

If you are tired of the drama, then just don't get tied up in a back and forth with her.  Either way you choose, leave it alone and don't engage.  I would, if in your shoes, actually be siding with the DH to the extent if he's responsive to you buying for the GC and helping him out with them, that would be my focus and if she doesn't like that, well......tough.   That's just me though.
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: shiny on November 17, 2014, 07:09:21 AM
B, thanks for your comment. Sounds like you've come a long ways towards healing for yourself, too.

Pooh, you hit the nail on the head. I feel the same as you.
Her DH has been the main source of info regarding the GC for past six years (schedules for school/sporting events, etc).
He's always kindly responded to us -- never rude nor ignored us when we want to talk with the kids or see them.
We can see that she has made this all about her, taking on a victim status, and not what's best for the kids. But it's been that way for years. Nothing new.
Such a sad way to live. I hope someone will help renew her mind to a healthy place.
But it's not going to be me, as I'm considered the enemy.
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: Pooh on November 17, 2014, 10:48:49 AM
I love my family.  But just because they are my "family", doesn't make them right all the time.  It sounds truly like your DH is doing his part to help keep them in your life.  He deserves some kudos for that. 

I just severed ties with a good friend of many years the other day.  She was constantly playing the "victim", when in reality, she was the cause of her own problems 99.9% of the time.  It's been coming.  The other day, she called whining about something.  I finally told her, "Look, we are all entitled to pity parties.  We throw them for ourselves and move on.  But you having to stop sending out invitations and then getting mad when people choose not to attend."  Needless to say, that phone call didn't end well.

I do still have sympathy and empathy for people.  I'm just to the point in my life where I am tired of being around constantly negative people.  Life is too short. 
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: shiny on November 17, 2014, 11:35:05 AM
P, I know posts get confusing at times, but it's actually her DH, my SIL, that I'm referring to.

After reading your story, I think that's what happened in my case, too.
DD is 'hurt' because we won't join her side, and be mean to him b/c they can't get along.
We don't want to get down in the trenches with them. After all, he is our GCs' father and takes care of them.

You're right, life is waay too short for this nonsense.
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: Stilllearning on November 17, 2014, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: shiny on November 12, 2014, 10:12:00 PM

This all came about because I emailed her DH and asked him for GC's clothing size. They've been separated for six years and the GC live with him.
Things are getting rather heated lately --probably headed towards divorce, and she's been out of control.


OK Shiny, so now I see.  Most women who are involved in a contested divorce become borderline crazy, at least for a while.  It looks like your SIL has decided to use your contact with him as a means to hurt your DD.  It is an underhanded but often used tactic in arguments and could actually be a way that your SIL tries to convince your DD how worthless she is (not that she is but she is in a very vulnerable place and some people think "winning the argument" is the point in having an argument). 

It sounds to me like he might be being mean to her and you might seem to be taking his side instead of seeming to be neutral. 

I am not really sure how I would handle this situation....so volatile, so painful.  I am so sorry you are having to deal with this!  Hugs!
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: luise.volta on November 17, 2014, 12:38:23 PM
P - I am drawn to positive people. It feels like I'm being kind to myself by doing that and keeping myself healthy. I am no into enabling victimism and taking it into my consciousness. It seems like a choice to me, a mind set, when it is constantly repetitive. I choose, to not go there.
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: blessedmom on November 18, 2014, 05:58:49 AM
I'm learning to limit the negative people in my life also. It's hard to do when the circus comes with a child you love.
Pooh I admire you being able to take a stand. Enough is enough.
Title: Re: Which way to turn
Post by: Pooh on November 19, 2014, 08:25:58 AM
Sorry Shiny.  I wrote that wrong.  I did understand it was her DH.  I wouldn't be drug down either simply because if they do follow through with the divorce, sounds like he might end up with the children.  Then you truly want to have a decent relationship with him as he will hold the keys to you being able to see them.  I don't see her picking them up for visitation and bringing them to see you since she's already playing the "mad" card.

Blessedmom, it's just in the last year that I have been able to start eliminating the toxic people from my life.  I guess I do have my DH/DIL situation to thank for that. :)

Me too Luise...I'm learning to surround myself with people that laugh, smile and roll with the punches.