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Problem Solving => Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters => Topic started by: LadyD on April 30, 2011, 09:19:26 AM

Title: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on April 30, 2011, 09:19:26 AM
My adult son and daughter-in-law have cut off ties with my 3 grandchildren because I am ignoring their "demands."  I have tried all through their marriage to meet their demands as far as my grandchildren.  The occasions when I have been able to see the kids is either if I go to their sporting events, if I go to their house to visit or babysit, or if I invite them to a holiday dinner.  They feel I should go to their house more often to spend time with the kids. But, tell me that to bring the kids to my house just for a visit is too much trouble for them because they both work.  (I also work full time.) My daughter has 2 of my other grandchildren who I also spend time with (basically under the same conditions as above).  My son and daughter-in-law become angry if I spend time with my other 2 grandchildren and my daughter becomes angry if I spend time with my other 3 grandchildren.  My son and daughter are always angry with me over these situations and I am at my wits end.  I can't please everyone and I spend most of my time very distraught because someone is usually angry at me for one reason or another.  I have been to counseling.  My pain is that because of this situation I am losing my relationship with my grandchildren.  I need some input on how to handle this without giving in to all the selfish demands of my children.  Also, for some reason, and can't tell you what it is because I do not know.  My daughter-in-law is constantly telling (or writing) me that I am a bad mother.  I can only assume that my son is filling her head with something he didn't (or doesn't) like about me in the past.  I divorced their dad for recognizable reasons when they were fairly young.  I struggled financially to feed and clothe them, worked full-time and managed to keep them all on sporting teams and always went to all of their games.  Eventually I remarried.  My husband used to tell me (and still does) that he felt I did everthing necessary to raise goods kids except that I did too much for them when they really should have been doing some things themselves.  I really believe that I was a good mother to them.  My son always had a taste for expensive things (even when he was young) and I could not give these things to him for financial reasons.  I truly believe he has a deep embedded resentment towards me because I could not always give him the things that his friends had.  I think he was ashamed of me.  My daughter can be manipulative in trying to get me to do things for her (even now) and if I say "no" when she asks me to do something...that is not an answer that suits her.  PLEASE HELP!! 
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: lancaster lady on April 30, 2011, 01:09:57 PM
Lady D :
Welcome to this Forum , at the moment there are various changes being made , that's why you probably haven't heard from any of our WW ....
There are lots of ladies here with your problem , and I'm sure there will be lots of advice to come .
I'm not sure how to solve your problem without being cut off altogether , if it was me I'm afraid I would stop being at their
beck and call . You are doing all you can and more to help them . Perhaps it's time to consider what this is doing to your health
and concentrate on your own life for a change .they are treating you like an unpaid nanny , not a loving grandma .
They are holding your grandchildren to ransom , maybe time to call their bluff .
Keep checking in , I'm sure there will be lots more help on its way .
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: jill on April 30, 2011, 01:16:00 PM
Hi LadyD and welcome to WWU.  There are many wise women here, all willing to support you. We know exactly how you feel, many of us are in the same boat.  I get the same treatment from my ydd, a phone call when I am needed to babysit, and my odd has pretty well cut me off, I have very little to do with her.  Luise will tell you, that you cannot change them, it's all about them, so you have to try and put yourself first, very difficult for mothers who have always put everyone else before themselves.  Most people will tell you that backing off is probably the best bet, let them come to you.  Keep venting here..........best wishes to you..............Jill
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Rose799 on April 30, 2011, 01:16:34 PM
Hello & welcome, LadyD,

Changes are being made at Luise's site, LadyD, but once the dust settles, I know that you'll receive lots of wise advice.  You are not alone, as many of us face similar issues with our dc.  For the time being, take a step back, take a deep breath, & know that help is on the way...   

Rose
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on April 30, 2011, 02:02:48 PM
Welcome: If you haven't already done so, please go to the Home Page and read the first two posts under "Open Me First." The first one,  "Modified Forum Agreement" is something you need to read, understand and agree to follow to be a member of WWU. The second, "Welcome...Here's How This Happened" will give you some history.

Happy posting...listening...learning...contributing and hopefully...laughing!
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: pam1 on April 30, 2011, 02:16:54 PM
Welcome LadyD :)

Wow, you've got a lot going on!  It's commendable that you want to still keep a relationship after being treated so shabbily by their parents. 

You're definitely right -- you cannot please everyone.  But you're #1 in your life and you deserve happiness and to be treated with respect.

My first concern would be to somehow block your DIL's harassing emails to you, it's not needed.  Can you block her email address?  I'd look into that.

Second, I'd perhaps look at taking a break from all of them.  I know it sounds counter-productive but I've found that space makes the heart grow fonder and people tend to treat you a little better.  Also, I believe the parents of your grandchildren are setting a terrible example for their children by treating you poorly.  Children learn what they see and I think it is a great lesson in teaching self-respect to refuse to take disrespect.

Those are just my thoughts.  Again, welcome.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Kennedy on April 30, 2011, 03:58:36 PM
Welcome Lady D, I'm sorry to read of your troubles. I'm sure you'll find comfort here. I have seen that no problem is to big or to small for the wonderful group of ladies on this forum.
Stay strong and take care of yourself. And never give up.
Sending up a prayer for you. Take care and God Bless!
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pen on April 30, 2011, 09:17:33 PM
I agree with the previous WW. Please take care of yourself first! It's hard when GC are involved, but many of our GMs here have kept scrapbooks or journals to share with them when contact is renewed. I'd take a break and then consider some ways to move forward. Loving detachment is a term that some of us have used...you're not closing a door, you're not giving up, you're just taking yourself out of the painful zone for a bit.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on May 01, 2011, 04:10:11 AM
Thank you so much for the encouragement.  I know that what I should do is step back and start to enjoy life and go out and do things for myself. My mind knows this, but it's the heart that I have problems with.  Hopefully, with support from WWU I will be able to find the strength to detach myself from what I know are unhealthy relationships.  Thank you all for your responses.  It helps so much just to know that I am not alone in this type of family situation.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: pam1 on May 01, 2011, 05:55:45 AM
(((Lady D)))

A lot of us here have made the choice of "loving detachment" It's definitely not easy, you'll be in my thoughts.  Take it easy on yourself.

But we do have a lot of fun here, check out the Grab Bag :)  I think our motto is "laughter is the best medicine"

Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: holliberri on May 01, 2011, 07:53:20 AM
Welcome, LadyD!

It must be hard, but I'm not sure I could handle a relationship with the GKs (if I were in your position) when your DIL seems almost verbally abusive to you. It's taboo to tell someone they're a bad mother, and even then, very rarely is it true, no matter how different our parenting tactics may be. I wouldn't want to put myself where I needed to tolerate that sort of thing. I think, for you, you need to take time and work on yourself and try to move forward.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on May 02, 2011, 11:28:25 AM
Holly:

Thank you so much.  Your advice is right on the money.  I am going to work on finding the strength to focus on me.  I also have to start believing that what others' think of me is not important.  You know when my DIL wrote telling me what she thought of me as a mother to my son I thought to myself "ya know, I would never say or insinuate that anyone is a bad mother because being a mother is one of the hardest things in life."  I only hope and pray that she will be able to live up to her own standards.   
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pooh on May 02, 2011, 07:29:58 PM
Welcome Lady.  I agree with all the others.  You have to take a step back right now.  It is very hard to love our children from a distance, but we have to do what's best for our ourselves when we are being treated badly.  It's also very hard because our fear of losing our GK makes us tolerate from our own children, what we wouldn't tolerate from strangers.  We feel we have to in order to have a relationship.  I too had a bad first marriage that I should have left after 2 years.  But I kept telling myself that I needed to stay with him because it was only fair to the kids and I didn't want them to go through it.  It seems we always stand to lose something when we make a difficult decision, but I also learned that the only way I could be good for anyone, was to love myself.  Do I still wish things were different?  Absolutely, but I can not change them, only myself.

Hang in there and do one small thing for yourself tomorrow.  You have to start somewhere.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: alohomora on May 03, 2011, 05:06:52 PM
This sounds like my sister, sadly.

Her MIL can do no good by her. I don't understand it. She asks her MIL to help her watch the kids. No, DEMANDED is the right word, and when the MIL stuttered at such a request (to take a half day off work twice a week essentially, and one Saturday night a month - the only night of the week she get's to see her BF and have a date night) to watch the kids, my sister walked out of her house!

I don't understand it. I know her MIL isn't perfect, but she absolutely loves those kids, tries to follow my sisters insanely long list of rules (which, when MIL is there, are set in stone, but when our side of the family is there, seem to magically not matter), and over gift their entire family. Poor lady. I always try and be extra nice to her and put my sister in her place sometimes when she's around (sister won't yell at me).
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pooh on May 03, 2011, 08:54:47 PM
Good for you alohamora for sticking up for the MIL.  I have a rule with everyone, ask me...you will probably get me to do it, tell me...you will probably get a look instead.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: lancaster lady on May 04, 2011, 12:39:34 AM
Alohamora.......another case of holding gk's to ransom.......if you don't do as I say you won't get to see them .How often have we heard those words on this forum ? I'll never understand this method of control .....another unanswerable 'why' question .
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: forever spring on May 04, 2011, 09:44:20 AM
When things got rough and unbearable my lovely wise aunt who died aged 94 always said. 'Now it's the time to be quiet'. She was so right. Sometimes it's better NOT to do something.
As long as we hang in there, our GK may come to us when they are bigger and able to make decisions for themselves. This is the hope that I cling to in sad times.
I often felt when I was round my DIL that my 3 year old GS got the impression that I was just a home help or some kind of ancilliary rather than a special person. In situations such as those I thought it's better not to be there.
Hang in there, vent here and enjoy the company of people who have been there and can understand.
Much love and hugs!
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: lancaster lady on May 04, 2011, 10:20:19 AM
when my DIL and I had our heart to heart , I made it clear that I wanted a relationship with my GD , and after not seeing her for 4 months , I couldn't see how she would know who I was .
So  now I see her on a regular basis and she knows who her Nona is , the squidgy lady who hugs her to death .
I still think if possible it's better to have everything out in the open , rather than suffer in silence .
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on May 11, 2011, 12:09:23 PM
Hi Everyone:

I don't know if I needed to start a new subject, but a new problem has come up that I need to talk about regarding my daughter.  Here it goes...

My daughter and her live in boyfriend (also the father of one of my GS) are probably going to lose their house.  The BF is telling D she and my other GS need to get out because she has not worked for over a year and is not contributing to any of the bill payments.  Of course D is calling me and telling me that she and my other GS need a place to live.  My husband and I are not going to let them come to our house.  It is very hard for both of us to tell her this, but what else can we do.  She is 30 years old.  When she was 19 she had my first GS (by someone other that the BF).  D and GS lived with us for four years (no rent, no help with any of the bills, etc.) then she started dating BF and he moved in with her while she and GS were with us during those 4 years and finally my husband and I put our foot down and they all moved out (into the house they are now losing).  I'm trying to stay strong in telling my D she cannot move back in with us.  As a result, all day I have been receiving threatening phones calls from D (i.e. telling me I will never see my GC and that I am a horrible mother).  I'm not sure how much more of this I can take.  This verbal/mental abuse from my DIL and now from my D is really hurting me right to the core.  Thanks for listening.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: themuffin on May 11, 2011, 12:50:48 PM
Hi Lady D,

  Oh this is a tough one.  I made similar mistakes with my DS.  He's younger than your DD but he did move out, I let him come back.  He came and GF moved in (just kinda happened). DS was asked to contribute $20 a per, but only after he insisted on keeping their room at tropical temperatures.  They gave nothing toward any other bills or rent for that matter.  Lord, twice they bought two two liter sodas and they made such a fuss of letting us know you would have thought they paid the mortgage.  Anyway, DS and GF or FDIL (whatever) were both given the boot for many reasons.  I happen to know that DS is going to struggle to stay on is own and he may very soon fall on hard times.  I truly believe that he's rather live in his car than admit the was wrong and ask to return, BUT if he did I would say "NO".    I have practiced this in my head for a few weeks now. 

I would not allow a person to live in my personal space if they were not worthy of being there.  My home is my refuge from the world.  The last thing I would want there is a son who was using me again.  Same thing with your daughter.  How dare she try to hurt you by using your GC.  She doesn't seem to care too much about your feelings.  I would hate having a person like that in my life.  And if you give in to her demands now, there's no telling where she'll stop.  Whenever she wants something she'll threaten to cut you off from your GC.  Nip it in the bud now!!!

I wish I had never let DS come back.  It was the worst thing for our relationship.  Not to mention my own peace of mind.  I truly hated coming home.  I no longer looked forward to the weekends.  You home is your happy space.  Tell DD that you will do all you can to help her find a place but you are afraid it just won't work if she moves back in.

Hugs
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on May 11, 2011, 01:15:21 PM
Hi Muffin:

Thank you for your response.  You are totally right.  My DD is being very selfish and again manipulative.  My husband and I love our "at home" time.  We work very hard all week and enjoy our down time.  Also, what you were saying about financial contribution is so similar to how it was when my DD and BF lived with us before moving out.  Not only do I know this would not work for personal reasons, but I also know it would not work financially.  I just have to be strong and prepare myself to be able to endure the heartbreak that I am anticipating in not seeing my GC.



Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: sonrisa on May 11, 2011, 01:30:01 PM
My heart goes out to you. I have also had similar issues with DS and DIL.  One of the comes to mind is the term "culling the herd".  It sounds as if your DIL is doing that. Pushing you away and telling you are the "bad mother". She is trying to establish her hierarchy/status within her family DS and gkids.  One way to do it is if she controls their interaction with you.

My DIL and DS lived with us quite awhile and when DS would come out to help us with the yard or some other activity, the minute he did Dil would be yelling out the window for him to come in, calling his cell phone a million times or send the gkids out so the he would not be with us alone.  Heaven forbid he and I went out to do something, 2 minutes down the road her angry calls would start.

No matter what you do it is not good enough when the culling begins.  Even on Mother's day I could hear her berating my DS because I did not get her a gift or something, even though I had taken out to lunch.  Heaven forbid if my DS would wish me a Happy Mother's Day in front of her. The best thing for you is just let her be. You can still see your grandkids if you babysit, that is really great as in some cases the grandmother does not even have that opportunity.  Find other activities that are joyful for you, they may pull away the gkids for a little while, however the service that you provide babysitting is an important one and a cheap one for them. 

I think that once DIL feels secure in her status, the insecurities she has with you will start to diminish. My DIL & DS when they lived with us, would try to prevent me from seeing my gkids even when they were under my roof.  They would enter through a different door and rush the children to their rooms.  I really would chuckle under my breath when they did this.

I know it hurts, at times it hurt me. But, I knew eventually they would come around as I would babysit without charging, they could trust me with the gkids, and I had more money than they did to spend on the gkids for the necessities. 

Hug yourself, you are a good grandma to those gkids.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on May 11, 2011, 01:38:21 PM
Sonrisa:

Thank you...this is a wonderful website.  I love hearing what you all have to say regarding my dilemma(s). It really helps to know that there are so many others who have problems similar to mine. 

Hugs
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on May 11, 2011, 01:45:41 PM
" We Are Famileeeeeeee..."  :)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pooh on May 11, 2011, 01:53:38 PM
I got all my sisters with meeeeee.......... ;D

Hang in there LadyD.  Don't answer the phone when she calls.  Let it go to voice mail and then delete it.  You do not have to suffer verbal abuse because of choices she made.  I don't blame you for not letting her move back after the first go-around.  I also know you are afraid of not being able to see GC.  It hurts.  It will hurt more if you continue to let her use you.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Donna on May 24, 2011, 02:27:44 PM
Dear Lady D.

You started - you have recognized what is wrong in life, and you found a forum which is filled with wise women who will listen to you, give you advice and help you through this painful process.

The most wonderful advice I can share with you, is that you are far from alone in your struggle.  I was so amazed at how many women suffer from their DS, DD, DIL, SIL, etc., it is so unfair; as it seems the world has lost the word called respect and honor they father and they mother.  However, those are old words, and obviously not in the minds of those children who put us through these horrific expectations, and continue to hurt us with words which are sometimes worse than swords.

You asked for advice, so my advice is, you have found a place where you can discover you are far from alone, and come to understand this is "abnormal" normal behaviors, and in this you can start forgiving yourself and questioning all that you were not able to do, but honor and celebrate all that you were capable of doing and so did. 

Competition over which grandchildren is far from new; as is children, this has been going on forever.  The only way to stop these things from happening, is to reject the behaviors, and not let any of those awful words get into your brain or your heart.

Know there is only so much you can do, choose what you wish to do, and you set your limits for your life, and also your expectations. 

I am wondering at this point, when we as mothers, do this; how many adult children finally get it, and realize what they have done.

I encourage you to take back your life, set your boundaries, and simply honor each grandchild the same, regardless of the parents.  Offer each of the parents the same, whatever they accept fine, what they reject who cares, you offered.  If they can not make the effort to come to you as they both work, well you work too; and in life it is about compromise. 

Who they are hurting are their own children, as they take from those children their grandmother.  The abuse continues, but you have the power to stop it; by not conforming to it, by taking control of your life, and living it as you wish.  If they choose not to compromise and come half way, it's their loss.  You have no control over this.

You only have control over how you live your life, and what you will allow to affect your life.  Don't waste any more time assuming your DS is putting words into your DIL mouth to spew at you.  Hang up, don't listen.  If the words are via email, send the next email back, stating you are not accepting what is being said, and don't bother emailing you with their garbage.

Seems rather a strong thing to do, but done once, I don't think you will get another garbage email.

You are not happy nor are you in any control of your own life as the situation stands, so think about all the advice you get, and try to put a plan together "to live your life".  The time you have is valuable, and there is no room for resentfulness, disrespect, or lack of cooperation.

You have to learn to delete, return unopened, hang up, and I encourage all of this, as if not, you will get to where I am - I have just walked away forever.  I would hope you never get to this point.  So if you can turn things around, by following the advice you will receive from many, I truly encourage you do and hope it all works out in the end.

It is great you have found this forum, you will receive a lot of strength, a lot of good advice, and you will feel the support.

In the mean time lots of hugs, crying is okay but smiling is better.

In the meantime, know you have always been a "GREAT MOTHER" and the opinion presented to you makes me wonder how great a mother she actually is herself, it's called the shadow effect.  Breathe

Donna
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on August 01, 2011, 12:41:31 PM
Hello Everyone,

Sorry I have not responded to anyone in a while.  I have been spending a lot of time trying to change things about myself, and trying to adjust to the detachment from DS, DIL and DD and all of their demands, negativity and manipulations.  I still have not had any contact with my 3 GC from my DS and DIL for close to a year now.

And, once I decided that I needed to do the same detachment from my DD and her manipulative behavior towards me, she stopped allowing me to have any contact with my other two GC.  It is really hard, I am crying on and off most of the time, but I am sticking to my convictions and praying hard every day to find the strength to not give in.

I read all of your comments and they really do help me.  I have had many bad days where I feel like my children do not care or even love me just a little bit.  I love my DS, DD and GC so much and it is very hard for me to not have any interactions with them.  It really hurts me to think that it doesn't bother my DS or DD in the same way.

I know that I have made mistakes in my life, and I know I was not a perfect parent, but the one thing I know from the bottom of my heart is that everything I did for my DS and DD when I was raising them, I did because I only wanted the best for both of them. 

Thanks for letting me share my feelings with all of you.

LadyD
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Nana on August 01, 2011, 03:44:06 PM
Lady D:  I am so sorry you are going through all this turmoil and sadness.  Just hold on to your convictions and ask nothing more than what your heart desires.  Sometimes the price is too high....  We cannot compromise our self esteem, self-worth, and dignity regardless of the reward...I dont want to pay that fee just to be able to be near the ones I love.  Easy to say I know.... but...I wouldnt want to lose myself while trying to please others and being disrespected. 

I would die not having my grown children or gc near.....but I cannot funtion if I am devalued.  Just hold on Lady D....things can change.....just let it flow..... and pamper yourself because you are a very valuable and unique person, regardless of the mistakes you might have done. 

Love
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on August 02, 2011, 12:08:21 PM
Nana:

Thank you for your kind response.  It helps so much to know that I can express my feelings about what I am going through and that there are so many understanding people who will listen and care.

Hugs
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on August 02, 2011, 12:31:14 PM
And we are all healing...as will you. Sending love...
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on August 02, 2011, 12:41:06 PM
Thank you Luise   :)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on August 02, 2011, 03:55:40 PM
I am new to WWU and do not know how to exactly show you support other than letting you know you are not alone.  Go ahead and stand up for yourself -- you have a bond with your family that cannot be broken and that doesn't entitle anyone to hurt you.  It is a shock to get hurt by your own family, but detaching with love is excellent advice.  In my history, I have experienced unrealistic expectations and threatened with no visits unless I meet them.  I am calling their bluff on my next visit...We will go on see them this Friday at great expense since they moved away last October.  We will be flying across country, renting a car and staying 9 days in a nearby B&B around the corner. I am setting limits on what I will and will not do as a GM, just like I did as a mother of 3 sons.  Only now, with the support of WWU, I am going to do it smiling, laughing and basically enjoying the heck out of seeing the GK.  I will sleep in, I will fend for myself for meals, I will arrange time to see the GK -- but I will not be sleeping in a pull out couch in their living room where there is no privacy, and I will not be woken up whenever the girls get up (typically early being 5:00 am) and I will not cook - I will treat the family to 2 meals out and that's it.   You need to find find your way with the support of other WWU.  Trust yourself, you will know what to do.  You are worth it!   Be Brave and Strong, and love the heck out of those GK.  They need your love, hugs and kisses :)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on August 02, 2011, 03:59:21 PM
Oh, ps - I offered to watch the GK overnight once or twice if they want to plan it.  There will be limits on that too -- I am not staying in the pullout couch so they can sleep in their cozy bed. If they go to a hotel, we will stay in their bed -- with clean sheets and towels.  WOW!  Aren't I demanding?  That's what a little support from WWU will do to you -- I wonder what a lot of support will do?  Heaven help us  ;D
 
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on August 02, 2011, 04:15:43 PM
You go, girl!!  :o
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on August 02, 2011, 04:21:53 PM
I am feeling so much better...I am going to be a GREAT grandmother, not really great grandmother, just I will love those GK and have a great time - you know what I mean?  Thanks WWU and luise.  I am getting healthier and happier.   8)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on August 02, 2011, 04:24:51 PM
Good for you!

(My great grandbaby is in college!  ;D ;D ;D )
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on August 02, 2011, 04:29:18 PM
So cool!  You were a teen Mom huh?
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on August 02, 2011, 04:35:44 PM
Nope, I graduated when I was 17 and went through nurses training, a mother at 21, a grandmother at 42 and a great grandmother at 63.  :)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on August 02, 2011, 04:37:28 PM
I want to be a great grandmother, but at 60 I am happy to have 2 GK.  You have good healthy genes - long life to YOU.  peace
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on August 02, 2011, 04:42:12 PM
I have two gransons. One is an attorney in Seattle and the other is a computer games designer in Paris.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on August 02, 2011, 04:48:51 PM
That's awesome - we have lawyers in common (oldest son is tax lawyer in NYC) of course computer game design with us too having several sons into computer programming for games.  WOW in Paris -- ever go for a visit?  Need a proxy? :)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on August 02, 2011, 05:22:54 PM
Nope. I never have wanted to go to Europe. Not an art or history buff and don't travel well. Haven't been on a plane since I moved here in 2000. (Went to Kauai that time to see Kirk and Sandy just before my eldest son died.)

My grandson is some kind of big pooh-bah with a top computer games company. (Forgot the name, of course.) He is VP of Creative Design or some such. His dad, my eldest son, called those games "Human Humiliators!"   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on August 02, 2011, 05:29:17 PM
I am sorry to hear of your loss luise.  Sincerely, hugs.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on August 02, 2011, 05:41:36 PM
June 20, 2000. I have written about it here often. He was well but had sleep apnea. Had a great day at work (a computer genius,) and died in his sleep of an apnea induced stroke. Never even woke up. Was curled up on his side with his eyes closed. A very gentle passing but hard on those left behind. When my granson called to tell me, he left a Voicemail that something terrible had happened and I knew Dwight was dead. I don't know how. I told Val before I even called my grandson back and I heard (in my head), Dwight, say..."I'm fine mom." So I made it though really well.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pen on August 02, 2011, 10:33:19 PM
Quote from: Smilesback@u on August 02, 2011, 03:55:40 PM
I am new to WWU and do not know how to exactly show you support other than letting you know you are not alone.  Go ahead and stand up for yourself -- you have a bond with your family that cannot be broken and that doesn't entitle anyone to hurt you.  It is a shock to get hurt by your own family, but detaching with love is excellent advice.  In my history, I have experienced unrealistic expectations and threatened with no visits unless I meet them.  I am calling their bluff on my next visit...We will go on see them this Friday at great expense since they moved away last October.  We will be flying across country, renting a car and staying 9 days in a nearby B&B around the corner. I am setting limits on what I will and will not do as a GM, just like I did as a mother of 3 sons.  Only now, with the support of WWU, I am going to do it smiling, laughing and basically enjoying the heck out of seeing the GK.  I will sleep in, I will fend for myself for meals, I will arrange time to see the GK -- but I will not be sleeping in a pull out couch in their living room where there is no privacy, and I will not be woken up whenever the girls get up (typically early being 5:00 am) and I will not cook - I will treat the family to 2 meals out and that's it.   You need to find find your way with the support of other WWU.  Trust yourself, you will know what to do.  You are worth it!   Be Brave and Strong, and love the heck out of those GK.  They need your love, hugs and kisses :)

Excellent job taking care of your needs, Smiles! I find that having control over my surroundings and transportation while visiting potentially hurtful family members empowers me and removes a lot of the stress. After one visit where I was more or less held prisoner while being  berated for my many shortcomings, I decided to never again be stuck w/o a car or a place to retreat. It only took me 50 years to figure it out, LOL. The extra expense is worth it; just think what you'll save in counseling fees and psych meds! Plus, stress is not good for the waistline. Have a great time!
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Ruth on August 03, 2011, 08:10:22 AM
As always, there were many wonderful responses to your heartbreaking problem with your family.  I esp loved the one from the elderly aunt 'now its time to be quiet'.   TAKE A DEEP BREATH, BELOVED.   CLOSE YOUR SWEET EYES, AND AS YOU INHALE, REMEMBER THE BEAUTIFUL THINGS IN LIFE, THINK OF THE MORNING AND FLOWERS AND DEW AND SOFT RAIN AND LOVELY WHITE SNOW AND SONGS AND SONGBIRDS.   Do a quieting exercise whenever you feel the panic and horror rising up inside you and churning out negative feelings.  All of us are hurting here in some way.  Release all of it for now, and just take time out to find out who you are and listen to the message that your heart will give you.   This isn't my usual 'type' of message here, but its what I felt I should give you.   The one thing I WOULD do is lavish my grandchildren with loving cards and emails if they are old enough, and not even focus on gifts, etc.   Grandmothers and very precious and memorable to children, it takes more than this to erase a good grandmother.   It isn't quantity of time that really counts, but communicating to them the honest loving heart that you have.   Keep reading other stories and you can go forward from here, letting all the malcontents find their own path, as all of us have to do.   
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on August 03, 2011, 11:04:03 AM
love your post Ruth, and thank you Pen for affirming that I am a responsible adult who can take care of my own needs.  Also, I would like to add that I have the right to determine how I do that.  You also are right that the extra costs are worth it for this visit.  I had a learning experience one time when we were invited to stay and then told the day before we arrived to go to a motel because we scheduled an activity during GK's nap time.  I also have visited when I did not have a car and felt trapped.   So it is so helpful to know that I am not alone and that GKs are so worth the trouble.  Hugs,     
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on September 09, 2011, 08:06:57 AM
Update on this situation....I'm trying to stick to my guns and not allow the negative behavior towards me to continue.  Also, told my DD that I was "cutting off all money supply to her"  Now, neither my DS, DIL, nor DD are speaking to me.  I have sad days...and can't understand why they don't miss me?  I know I miss them, but I need to maintain some respect.  Thanks for listening.

Quote from: LadyD on April 30, 2011, 09:19:26 AM
My adult son and daughter-in-law have cut off ties with my 3 grandchildren because I am ignoring their "demands."  I have tried all through their marriage to meet their demands as far as my grandchildren.  The occasions when I have been able to see the kids is either if I go to their sporting events, if I go to their house to visit or babysit, or if I invite them to a holiday dinner.  They feel I should go to their house more often to spend time with the kids. But, tell me that to bring the kids to my house just for a visit is too much trouble for them because they both work.  (I also work full time.) My daughter has 2 of my other grandchildren who I also spend time with (basically under the same conditions as above).  My son and daughter-in-law become angry if I spend time with my other 2 grandchildren and my daughter becomes angry if I spend time with my other 3 grandchildren.  My son and daughter are always angry with me over these situations and I am at my wits end.  I can't please everyone and I spend most of my time very distraught because someone is usually angry at me for one reason or another.  I have been to counseling.  My pain is that because of this situation I am losing my relationship with my grandchildren.  I need some input on how to handle this without giving in to all the selfish demands of my children.  Also, for some reason, and can't tell you what it is because I do not know.  My daughter-in-law is constantly telling (or writing) me that I am a bad mother.  I can only assume that my son is filling her head with something he didn't (or doesn't) like about me in the past.  I divorced their dad for recognizable reasons when they were fairly young.  I struggled financially to feed and clothe them, worked full-time and managed to keep them all on sporting teams and always went to all of their games.  Eventually I remarried.  My husband used to tell me (and still does) that he felt I did everthing necessary to raise goods kids except that I did too much for them when they really should have been doing some things themselves.  I really believe that I was a good mother to them.  My son always had a taste for expensive things (even when he was young) and I could not give these things to him for financial reasons.  I truly believe he has a deep embedded resentment towards me because I could not always give him the things that his friends had.  I think he was ashamed of me.  My daughter can be manipulative in trying to get me to do things for her (even now) and if I say "no" when she asks me to do something...that is not an answer that suits her.  PLEASE HELP!!
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Rose799 on September 09, 2011, 08:41:16 AM
Quote from: LadyD on September 09, 2011, 08:06:57 AM
I need to maintain some respect.

Yes, and a little goes a long way...  (((hugs)))
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Ruth on September 09, 2011, 08:43:56 AM
Good for you!   Yes, I understand that sinking feeling of, 'why don't they miss me'?  This is something hard to come to terms with.  I have been stuck there and still struggle with it.  I think it has a lot to do with the expectations many of us had as Moms that we would and should always be the center (or very nearby) of their lives, to be the Matriarch and to be loved and revered, like most of us do our own aging and precious Mom's.  I'm trying to readjust that thinking and know that it isn't in my power to make that happen.  I'm not even sure its based on how 'good' a Mom we were or weren't its the personality of the son or daughter.  Some people have it in them to value and cherish and live in a state of gratitude and forgiveness, others seem to be self centered from day one.  all I can say is that you have to get stronger and become a whole person with developing a life of your own, whether its animal rescue, soup kitchen, nursing home, etc there's lots of opportunities to make your life count.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on September 09, 2011, 10:05:57 AM
Let go of what suits her and connect with what suits you. Self-respect is the base of external respect.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on September 09, 2011, 10:43:53 AM
Ruth,

Thank you.  You are so right.  Over the years my own dear mother and I may have had a few misunderstandings, but never did I ever disrespect her or expect her to support me in any way as an adult. Or, for that matter did I expect financial support from her even when I was on my own with my 3 children after my divorce.

I quess there are just some individuals who have a sense of entitlement.  I know that I certainly did not instill that characteristic into my children.  It helps to hear that it could possibly just be their own individual character and not a result of how they may have been brought up.  Thank you for the confidence.  I'm going to start thinking more about my own life, and how I can improve on that.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on September 09, 2011, 10:54:33 AM
I re-read your post and again think it is well said LadyD - and I agree with luise and ruth.  Self respect does come across.  You get thumbs up from me for saying No to *demands* whenever it suits you! .  Even *nice people* will take advantage of someone if they let them.  And just know that just by being born, you are somebody - and you do matter everyday of all of your life.  You also have the right to not like how your family treats you.  >:(  You can choose to say THAT to them too whenever you hear the *bad mom* message.  Kick up some dust -- and then when it settles back down, you can tell them they are welcome to visit you too, that you'd love to see the GC whenever they can arrange time.  My DS/DIL made the demand that they will ONLY visit me if they can leave their kids (2 & 4 yo) for a week so they could go on a much needed vacation.  I said "That's not my agenda"; and, added that when I am retired and they are school-age, I would love to have them come for a visit in the summer.   (Even then, there will be limits on how long).  So I am getting used to seeing GC on my own $$dime, a couple times a year.  To help get through the missing times - I am working on making GC scrapbooks of our visits together as a visual reminder that I love them.  I plan to bring these photo albums with me each time we visit and enjoy with the GC.  (I am afraid to leave them because the scrapbooks might get *lost*).  I trust in the bond I have made with my GC, and my DS that I will continue to be allowed to see the GC on my own terms.  I will visit a couple times a year, give affordable personal birthday and Christmas gifts (not big ticket items) and I will save my money for these visits.  But in reality, the GC NEED and LOVE their parents more than me as a GP.  I need their parents to be strong and do a good job with the GC.  I am there for moral support, not monetary support and not babysitting service.  My limits are because I have a life too after raising my kids - that's natural.  Even if I choose to stay home and putter around in retirement, that's ok!  I am not expected to spend my retirement and money on the GC when their parents are healthy and able to raise them.  I send them my love and blessings though.  And when it does not suit them, I will have to say *Sorry you feel that way, and I hope you don't let your feelings keep GC from knowing their GP*.  Seems to me, that being a GP has its heart breaks only to make our hearts stronger.  You show that strength!  Hugs     
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on September 09, 2011, 11:14:29 AM
Dear Smilesback@u:

Thank you for your wise words.  I am grateful for this forum, it is so helpful.  :)

Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on September 09, 2011, 12:07:26 PM
You're very welcome here.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Keys Girl on September 09, 2011, 03:47:01 PM
Dear Lady D,

It's very painful when your children hold you hostage.  I don't have any grandchildren but I can attest that after a while, the found sadness of the "cold shoulder" gives way to the peace and quiet and freedom of choice when no one else "pulls your strings" except yourself.

As someone else once told me, "I didn't raise my children for them to make my life miserable, I raised them to grow up and get their own lives".

Say "No" to them and "Yes" to yourself. 

Take a break from the hostility and unplug from them and anyone else who doesn't treat you well.

Just say "Buh-Bye"
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on September 12, 2011, 06:29:15 AM
Dear Keys Girl:

It has been a while since I have been involved in the drama of my DS's and DD's lives.  At first, I didn't know how I would go on not having my DS, DD and GC in my life, and yes, I still have my "days" where I miss them terribly.  However, as time goes by I have been taking the time to step back and look at my own life.  This is something I haven't done since before my children were born, and even then I had so much going on in my own family life I don't think I knew who I really was.  Now, I find myself having time to stop, smell roses (and all other types of flowers) and think about who I really am.  When I think about who I am I discover that I'm not all that bad of an individual.

I have never said "yes" to myself.  I'm learning to do that more often and it is starting to grow on me.

I will more than welcome my DS and DD back into my life as long as they come back with maturity and responsibility for their own lives and respect for mine.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my situation with my DS and DD.  This forum has been so helpful to me.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pen on September 12, 2011, 08:21:54 AM
This is what the site is all about. Good progress, and good post.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on September 12, 2011, 11:19:14 AM
Good process you are in...saying Yes to yourself, and nurturing yourself.  Over the weekend, I finished my scrapbook about our visit in August with the GC.  It took all day on the costco.com photo center, uploading, captioning, arranging and finalizing.  And I feel it was time well spent -- that had me dwelling on my feelings and perspective.  I will share the book with DS/DIL/GC when we visit again at Thanksgiving.  (This is my book, so they can purchase a book for themselves through costco if they really want one.  I am not chasing them down for affection and approval anymore.  I am relishing in my own heartfelt pleasure from visiting the GC).  I think refocusing on myself helps alot and sends out the vibe to my DS/DIL that I am full of respect for myself and dignity and devaluing myself when I feel rejected.  I will participate in their lives on my own terms in cooperation with their busy lives - and I have a heart full of love for them.  If they do not approve of how I show it, or that I don't jump when they say jump, it makes no nevermind to me anymore.  Really working on that too, sometimes I just don't feel so confident.  However, if I get a *hit* from them ever again that feels degrading or belittling, I will say in so many words to them - Cut it out!  >:(  And then proceed to detach, let go of expectations that things will be any different between us.  It may be that you will experience this too, a lack of maturity and lack of sensitivity, but You will have options like we all do, to get on with your life, without carrying around feelings of misery and loss, and can come back to your own peace of mind and happy place - because you love yourself and your life.  Anyways, that may sound like a lot of whoohoo, but it is all I have got so far to offer.  My wounds are fairly fresh, but I do have some healing going on and hope the same for you too.   Hugs,   
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on September 12, 2011, 11:23:55 AM
Update on this situation....I'm trying to stick to my guns and not allow the negative behavior towards me to continue.  Also, told my DD that I was "cutting off all money supply to her"  Now, neither my DS, DIL, nor DD are speaking to me.  I have sad days...and can't understand why they don't miss me?  I know I miss them, but I need to maintain some respect.  Thanks for listening.  PS:  I would refrain from *announcing* that I am not going to send money - as I think actions speak louder than words, and avoids unpleasantries.  I'd rather they be responsible for how they feel about not getting money and bring that up to talk about with me if they want.  And if they do, less said is better I think.  Saying something like *I am saving my money to visit you and think that is better way to show my love for you." 
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on September 12, 2011, 11:32:28 AM
Just love all the support and encouragement I get here!!!  :)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on September 12, 2011, 11:40:12 AM
Me too, we are in the same boat really because we are being mothers and dealing with insensitivity that hurts.  Take care, you are very welcome.  Glad to have something helpful to offer to you.  hugs,
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Ruth on September 12, 2011, 12:02:50 PM
I am 100% convinced that the only hope I have for any reconciled, healthy relationship with my ds is by not communicating to him, either verbally or nonverbally, that I need it.  He wrote to me a few years ago the lines 'you're the one who needs a relationship with me, I don't need one with you, so you need to watch it'.  That will not happen again, I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago. 

As long as our adult children - and I do mean adult children as opposed to adult adults - can feel they have power to make or keep a secure place in our lives, we are jerked around by the bad behavior.  I don't believe this is something you can fake it till you make it, its imperative to become your own person, to accept the adulthood status of the children, and quit clinging to their coat tails. 
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on September 12, 2011, 12:41:11 PM
That sounded very painful - *you're the one who needs a relationship with me, I don't need one with you, so you need to watch it* and even a bit threatening and very inappropriate.  Sorry you had to go through that.  Hugs,   
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on September 12, 2011, 12:59:22 PM
None of us "need" abuse.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on September 12, 2011, 01:26:16 PM
Right luise.  My definitions for emotional abuse = threats to your well-being, intimidating, rejecting, withholding affection, power and controlling behaviors, blaming relationship problems on you.  Shout *Foul*  >:(
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on September 12, 2011, 01:53:23 PM
NOW!
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: SunShine on September 13, 2011, 10:45:22 AM
I have the same problem. My dh said, "Remember when we were growing up and everyone expected us to go to grandma's and grandpa's, because they were older and we were expected to put out the effort to drive there?"  So true, as I never expected my mother to drive to me. I went to her house for the holidays. Today's kids now want us to go to them. It was never like that in my youth. They also don't take age into consideration. One day we won't be able to make the trip. They do all claim they are exhausted because everyone works... as if some of us don't! I have invited my stepson and wife over numerous times. I'm tired of having to drive 1 1/2 hours to see them. I'm tired of having to drive 2 hours to see DD, but she now expects this. Her schedule is worse than ours you see. This is the 'entitlement generation'... everyone owes them everything. I don't know what to say to you, but to sympathize. I think a lot of us are in this boat. This whole 20 and 30 something generation can't be bothered to do anything for us at all. They feel entitled to have everything done for them. My choice now is to get a nice sailboat to retire on with my dh and set off into the sunset and have fun with him. We are both tired and just want some years together. I'm sorry if I have no words of wisdom here. I guess what I'm saying is to enjoy your life and do something you always wanted to do.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on September 13, 2011, 11:05:00 AM
You know Sunshine, your words are valued because you are not alone in this.  WWF helps show us that we do not have a unique experience here, so you can take comfort in that and not go stark raving mad or into deep depression.  We reach out to each other and note that we share in having unrealistic expectations and upsets thrust upon us.  Being here on WWF helps de-confuse us, and affirm our feelings so we get stronger and happier with ourselves.   Where do you draw the line?  If I had caved into the idea that we were expected to live the rest of our lives in the same city as our GC and help raise them in order to see them, we would have moved more than once - uprooting ourselves, leaving our jobs, friends, selling our house, all because we were expected to close to the *the family*.  Oh yeah - sound familiar?  Let's see, if we actually fell for that, that would mean we would have made three moves across the United States now three times in 3 years.  And even now, there is talk of DS/DIL moving again, if transferred, *for the job* which does not have anything to do with us, not our fault, and not so that GC are moving to be closer to where GP live.  That is life, isn't it?  You are expected to make a living, raise your family and get together over holidays or vacations with relatives (that's us).  We did it, and now it is the next generation's turn.  Congrats to us to have our health and live to a ripe old age - and enjoy our golden years.  If there is no blame, then all is good.  It is the understanding and sympatico that is missing that takes the brightness out of getting older for me.  We will do what we can for visits, and try not to stress about the rest - whether it is enough, whether they have money to buy a house, pay for college etc.  We are looking out for ourselves and trying not to be a burden in our old age.  The baton has been passed to them, whether they like it or not.  Diapers, pull-ups, school, college - and then you are on your own.  Or so we thought?   
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Ruth on September 13, 2011, 11:32:46 AM
I have already made the decision that this year I will spend Thanksgiving and Christmas with my elderly Mom in another state.  It isn't up for discussion with dc.  If they want to be there, that's fine, it not, cool.  I'm not chasing my children down any more on holidays.  It is the children's responsibility to honor their parents on holidays at the very least, I'm ashamed of all these years I followed my children around like a desperate puppy. 
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: SunShine on September 13, 2011, 11:53:06 AM
Oh ladies. Yes, I came on here to not feel alone in all of this. I'm still totally confused. You all have put into words what I could not. I usually find it easy to give advice, but I don't seem to be able to give myself any and when a problem such as this one comes up that LadyD posted... I'm in the same boat. What to do?.... so I will be reading all the responses on this great question and I feel so sorry LadyD that you are going through this. I don't want to feel like a depressed puppy either. I'm thinking of getting in the car with my dh, my DS and just driving to Florida to see my elderly FIL over Christmas. I can't worry about if my DD will be home or if my DSS (dear step son) will be around. I think my DD is learning her manners from her eldest brother who has not been to my house in 15 years! Yes, they do make demands on us LadyD. For me, Ruth has my answer to that... go visit someone who isn't making demands on you and spend time with them. I think I will be taking that advice. There is a lot of advice on here and I hope LadyD something will strike you as the right thing for you. Smiles, thanks. I will be reading many more posts. I find it so easy to give advice... but when I'm in the same boat. I don't know how to give myself advice or LadyD.  We can only do so much in life and we can't change every time some else does. That's so true. I still want to take a year or two and sail around with dh actually. That really is a dream of mine. He's retiring in two years. Counting down here. It may wake my kids up too. :o) 
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on September 14, 2011, 10:55:13 AM
Thank you for all of your great responses.  As always, I am getting wonderful advice here from those who are in similar situations.  SunShine I know what you mean about this 20 and 30 something generation.  Why do they feel so privileged in their lives?  I also like the idea Ruth about spending the holidays with people who truly care about you.  My MIL is 89 years old, very self-sufficient, but lives by herself.  Usually I have the entire family over for Thanksgiveing and Christmas (with no help from DD or DIL with the cooking).  My MIL is always with us for the holiday meals, but I think this year I am just going to have quiet holidays with my DH and MIL.  It will be very different, but I know everything will be appreciated.

SunShine, I know what you mean about this great forum.  Kudos to Luise Volta for starting this website.  When I feel really down about my situation, I come to this website and read what others are going through and I don't feel alone any more. 

Hang in there all.  Hugs
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pooh on September 18, 2011, 10:20:35 AM
Hang in there ladies.  As I read through these posts, all I could think of was this.  Is it harder to live day to day wondering if the only reason our children stay in our lives is because they are receiving things (money, gifts, etc.)  We feel it, but yet we still want to believe it's not true so we torture ourselves with doubts and second-guesses.  Or is it easier to finally say "enough" and see if that is truly the reasons they stay in our lives?

I say the "enough" way is better.  At least we know the truth and can without a doubt, know it is not us, but them.  It is in their court to change and we can move on past the doubts.  I used to love the saying "give them enough rope and they will hang themselves."  I think in many of our stories, it is true.  I for one, am glad I said "enough" to OS.  It allowed me to see his true self and realize that even though he is my son, he is not the boy I raised.  He has taken a different path as an adult than I expected, but it's his path to take.  It's my choice if I want to plod behind him on that path, head down, feeling rejected and begging for his attention, or I can leave his path and strike out down my own paths, having laughter, fun and adventure.  I choose my own path.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on September 19, 2011, 07:12:26 AM
Pooh:

I know exactly what you mean.  It is hard to believe that our children seem to not care about us as the one who raised them and not just as one who is there when they need monetary support or babysitting services.  It hurts very much, but like you I know I need to be strong and start living my life the way I should be living it.  I think of the sayings "absence make the heart grow fonder" and "if you love something set it free, if it truly loves you it will return."  I am just letting go and holding on to hope....I won't give up on the hope.

And, it's funny...my life since, my DD and DS have stopped all contact with me has actually been a lot better (time wise and financially), so I need to start focusing on what is positive about this situation instead of what is negative.  This website, the support of my DH and also some counseling are helping me to hang in there too!!  Hugs :)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pen on September 19, 2011, 07:36:43 AM
Great attitude here! I'm learning, I'm learning. It's great to reconnect with my DH and pursue our hobbies and activities knowing our AC are just fine w/o us. The holidays are coming & they will take us down if we are not prepared, so this is a good time to get our priorities straight and make plans that suit us rather than waiting to be miserable when our expectations aren't met.

One thing though - when we generalize about a generation (20 - 30 year olds, for example) it's not fair to those in that group who are caring, kind to their FOOs/ILs, hardworking and self-reliant. I don't want to be thrown into the usual "Evil MIL" or "Controlling Mom" categories either, lol!
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: LadyD on September 19, 2011, 08:40:11 AM
Pen:

I agree with you that not all 20 - 30 year old AC have this same attitude.  My DH and I attended a birthday party this weekend at a relative's home, where there were other family members along with their AC in that age bracket.  These AC are wonderful, loving people towards their parents.  I must admit it was wonderful to see that not all AC are the same, but it also made me feel sad for my situation.  But, I am just going to stay focused on growing the relationship between my DH and making a better life for myself and keeping the Faith.   :)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Martinick on October 24, 2011, 04:43:28 PM
In reading replies, it is amazing how today's children think only of their entitlement, their own needs and that it's okay to harbor total disregard and disrespect for their parents. I hope you are able to make changes to your day-to-day life and find fulfillment. Please consider a small pet, educational classes to attend and enlarging your circle of friends. I did and it has helped ever so much.
  ;)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on October 24, 2011, 06:16:32 PM
Yes, having more time to find more interests in life is a perk of getting old.  Maybe cuz I loved being a Mom and raising a family I feel deserving of time to do something I'd like for change.  Peace
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: sesamejane on October 24, 2011, 09:11:41 PM
I am in a quandry about the holidays too.  My new friends all have family around or are married.  I am going to have to think about this one.  Maybe I will find a place to volunteer this year. 
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pen on October 25, 2011, 12:05:08 AM
Jane, I can only think you'd be an asset at any gathering! You'll find your perfect spot. Maybe your house is just the place for a party: a cookie exchange, musicale, wreath-making afternoon w/hot wine/cider, kids holiday crafts, gifts for soldiers wrapping assembly line, food boxes for the needy, or ???
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on October 25, 2011, 09:38:59 AM
Jane, I think changes are seasonal, and this holiday season is a blip on our screens really.  You have a lot going on with your move and settling in.  Will the weather hold up for any biking or sightseeing by car?  I think too much hooplah is made about holidays by media - they are big money makers for retail, and heart breakers when families cannot be together for whatever reason.  Let's change the culture of holidays back to what they were really  meant to be --a break from the hubbub.  How about a nice phone call to special ones and some cards mailed --- then a nice relaxing time?   
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pooh on October 25, 2011, 09:46:41 AM
What about making something inexpensive...like construction paper turkeys?  With some string glued to the back, with a note on the back that simply says "Happy Thanksgiving from your neighbor" and walk around town that morning tying them on mailboxes?  Ha ha ha....I think I will do that too just because it sounds fun!  Might do it at Christmas too with little red candycanes....we could turn into the "secret admirer neighbor" that everyone is trying to figure out!  Lol.

Besides, I like playing with glitter and pom-poms  ;D
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on October 25, 2011, 09:50:42 AM
Maybe I don't have my energy back from my bad cold.  Sounds fun though ;)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: elizabeth on October 25, 2011, 12:44:49 PM
Hi Jane,

I've spent quite a few Christmas and Thanksgiving, Easters alone. Some were lonely, most were ok.

I didn't try to fill the gap, sometimes people invited me over for dinner with their families and sometimes I met with friends that also didn't have family to get together with.

I usually get by over holidays by remembering its just 24 hours. People all over the USA are sitting around pretending things aren't bothering them that their inlaws and siblings and parents are doing and saying. They are stuffing their faces with fattening food whereas I can get by with a nice salad or strawberries or something very healthy and the next day I wont' be hungover from all that food like they are. Well, its not so great maybe, this type of thinking, but it has worked for me sometimes.

I  think of my brothers, (who never got it together in their work or financial situation), having to walk on eggshells to make sure they keep their mortgages with Mom and the thousands dollars in a wallet they get as a Christmas gift each year, that they already spent months before on credit cards. I marvel at how well they do that each year, how well they do at making sure Mom believes at least for those few days that she is loved and cared for. I think of the miles they drive to see her and how she will treat them when they get there and how it will degenerate from there until they are besides themselves with how to please her. And how they will have to discipline their kids so forcefully because no child could live up to the commands to not even get a fingerprint on one coffee table before it blows up into a fiasco about childrearing.Then I think of how very very much I love my Mom.

I think about how even though my DF disiherited and disowned me when he died, they can't really take back what they gave me, for example my mother gave me my artistic talent because she is an artist and gave me a start with her leftover oil paints and some brushes and much understanding of design, line and beauty, the beautiful way she kept house and decorated things even on a shoe string when we were young, how she was so pretty when I was a girl, how she sewed for me, how she tried so to teach me to eat right, dress right and to stand up straight. And all the Holiday dinners she made for us all those years.

I also think of my DD and my DGS and wonder what are they doing on Canadian Thanksgiving day, or CHristmas, and that they may be with xhusband and wife2; and then I remember that I don't want tolive in the same town or near x husband. I'm relieved to be far far away because it would make me cry and feel angry to know or see my GS and DD with them and doing the same thing my brothers are doing with DM.

Somehow, my DH managed to find me in this big world and he has been a true friend. But all the years I didn't know DH and have been alone on these days, I learned and affirmed who I am and who these other people are, which is what I get that you have done as well.

I feel like you are a very strong person, just the little I have gotten to know you, with a terrific sense of humour and a solid intellect, I think you will enjoy your holiday very much whatever you do.

Sorry to shift the topic onto myself, again ! I'm all over the place today.

Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on October 25, 2011, 01:54:30 PM
Elizabeth I love your post.  It reminds me of how one day does not color my world.  It is the daily grind of being in my own skin, finding ways to be cheerful and passing that on to family with peaceful thoughts and sometimes with a smile going out to complete strangers, random kindness to hold a door, pick up dropped change etc.  It also behooves me to know that sometimes we just cannot live up to unrealistic expectations and we just can't make everything better for anyone but ourselves.  That's a 24 hour, 7 days a week job-- well maybe not 24 hour because we do sleep, take care of loved ones and work for a living, some of us.  I just heard someone suggest that they go for a car ride and/or get outdoors for a brisk walk as a pick me up.  Doing for others comes next.  First you love you, and get comfy with who you are.  Love your post - thanks for bringing it home again. 
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: sesamejane on October 26, 2011, 09:15:41 AM
Thanks everybody - as usual there is so much wealth in these posts.  Now it seems I have too much to do come the holidays!! Between gluing and glittering, entertaining, sightseeing, volunteering, and 'secretly' posting...oh my!!  : )))  I want to do it all!

Liz, I loved your post too.  Yes, I had to come to some pretty upsetting at first conclusions about my foo and kids.  I accept it now and like you, am more content with how things have come about. I was likewise banished and disinherited because of family craziness.  Life is not as simple as it is portrayed in the media...not one little bit.  It is lovely getting to know you better.  Wish we were neighbors!

Got a call from my eldest dd who said she wanted to 'stop in' and 'have dinner' just prior to Thanksgiving, and 'by the way will you give me a ride to the airport so I can spend Thanksgiving with dad.'  Do the gifts never end??   Well, my sis is newly relocated near the airport about 2 hours away.  So I telephoned her and asked what she was up to.  I suggested 'Chinese' because frankly, I don't feel like cooking after this move and it sounds like a lot of work for a "stop over...and on the way somewhere else."  So I will be happy to see her and her boyfriend and send them off with love.  It is what it is.

I wonder if I can find the glitter and glue in all this mess?  Won't my new neighbors get a kick out of it?  hee hee.... :-*
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pooh on October 26, 2011, 01:12:21 PM
It would be a great way to meet some of them!  Wait...wait...what happened to the new neighbor you met? Hmmmm?
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: sesamejane on October 26, 2011, 04:33:26 PM
Oh you mean the one that wanted to share some wine?  Saw him walking down the street hand in hand with a cute little gal...apparently, he met another neighbor   :-*
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pooh on October 27, 2011, 08:20:44 AM
Dang!
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: sesamejane on October 28, 2011, 11:22:32 PM
Ya that is what I said... *dang*   :(  but then said to myself.... he's awfully short...  ::)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: elizabeth on October 29, 2011, 06:57:00 AM
Jane --  Here's hoping a taller one finds you!
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pen on October 29, 2011, 08:00:49 AM
Yes, a tall, kayaking, biking, gourmet-cooking mountain man who is comfortable in town as well as in the woods...with a great sense of humor, well-informed but not overly-intense. Takes good care of his possessions but isn't owned by them. Is handy and capable around the house, garden  and workshop. Is romantic but not needy or smarmy. Did I leave anything out?
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: amflautist on October 29, 2011, 08:11:34 AM
Quote from: Pen on October 29, 2011, 08:00:49 AM
Yes, a tall, kayaking, biking, gourmet-cooking mountain man who is comfortable in town as well as in the woods...with a great sense of humor, well-informed but not overly-intense. Takes good care of his possessions but isn't owned by them. Is handy and capable around the house, garden  and workshop. Is romantic but not needy or smarmy. Did I leave anything out?

Yes, you left his name out of your description.  There can't be more than one!
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: flower48 on October 29, 2011, 08:59:55 AM
Quote from: Pen on October 29, 2011, 08:00:49 AM
Yes, a tall, kayaking, biking, gourmet-cooking mountain man who is comfortable in town as well as in the woods...with a great sense of humor, well-informed but not overly-intense. Takes good care of his possessions but isn't owned by them. Is handy and capable around the house, garden  and workshop. Is romantic but not needy or smarmy. Did I leave anything out?

Yes... all those things PLUS -- well educated, NOT in debt, comfortable in his own skin, able to handle quiet time, loves a good movie and not just an action movie, can hold a conversation, and he must be a good kisser.

Oh, my brother happens to pretty much fit this description.  He is 47, six foot seven, blonde scruffy hair, the outdoorsy type, likes golf, camping etc and his name is...










Just  Kidding
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pooh on October 30, 2011, 07:16:25 AM
Wears pink with confidence!
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Shelby on October 30, 2011, 12:40:33 PM
Quote from: Pooh on October 30, 2011, 07:16:25 AM
Wears pink with confidence!

Pooh, you made me laugh out loud.  A number of years ago, we were trading in my old, huge family sedan - as we no longer needed to haul a full crew everywhere.  I wanted something I could park easier, better mileage, etc.  Our daughter would also borrow the car while in high school.  My husband found a great deal on a 6 year old Celica - cute little sporty car.  Not an actual sports car, but a sporty look to it, and only 4 cylinders.  (Never want too much power in a car that a teenager will drive).  Low mileage for the years, extremely low price.  WHY?  Because it was bright turquoise.  DH asked if I would be okay driving a car that color.  I said sure, why not.  He bought it (fabulous price, too) - and I happily drove it.  Advantage was I could always spot my car in the Target or Walmart parking lot.  With the navy sedan (or subsequent gray sedan, or silver SUV or red coupe) - I was always trying to put my groceries in somebody else's car - and wondering why I couldn't unlock the door. 

Our college age sons liked the car, but not the color, and were reluctant to drive it because it was a "girl's color" for a car.  My husband had no problems driving driving it, because his manhood is not a function of the color car he drives.  But I should have gotten him a pink shirt to wear while driving it.  ;)

I've always wondered about the guys who drive red corvettes and rev their engines at stoplights.  Are they overcompensating?  For a real man, look for the guy in the pink shirt driving the turquoise Celica  ;)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pooh on October 30, 2011, 12:43:35 PM
Hee hee!
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: lancaster lady on October 30, 2011, 12:53:12 PM
Has  anyone else noticed that really short men compensate by driving large cars ?
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pen on October 30, 2011, 03:47:41 PM
Out here it's big pickup trucks with super huge wheels, and a huge belt buckle/cowboy hat to match. I'm always so embarrassed for their wives. DH drives a small car, BTW :)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on October 30, 2011, 04:32:09 PM
Last Thanksgiving was my first one where DH was in Nursing and I was alone. My sort of son, Bill, offered to come up and take me out for a festive meal. We got snowed in...so I went over to the assisted care building (I am in independent living) and they seated me at a table alone. LOL! I tried to feel like a victim but it was so funny!!
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Smilesback@u on October 30, 2011, 07:00:07 PM
Ya just gotta laugh sometimes at the picture we make.  What are you planning this year? 
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: luise.volta on October 30, 2011, 07:10:04 PM
This year Bill plans to come and get me and take me to my sort of daughter's for Thanksgiving...about half way between your house and mine. She has been remodeling for a year and plans a Thanksgiving Gala to celebrate completing it. I was going in Sept. but, as you know, I crashed and ended up in our nursing facility instead. What are you up to?
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: forever spring on October 31, 2011, 12:11:51 AM
Just caught up on this post. what a treat.  :) I loved what you wrote. Liz, so true, thanks for sharing.
We don't have big Thanksgiving in this part of the world but I do agree that festive events, especially Christmas can be so stressful. Why oh why I ask again? I noticed that GPs who don't live near their GKs are advised to celebrate un-birthdays just on days when they are around to make the occasion special. Why not have un-Christmas celebrations just when we feel like it; especially if we are not religious, we could ignore Christmas totally. This event has been hijacked by commerce anyway and has for a lot of people lost all its original meaning. Sad really. Let's enjoy the good times we are given to spend with the family and not give them a label. It hardly ever works.

One more thing about ideal man. He must share the same sense of humour and make me laugh out loud - often!  ;)

Have a good time all of you strong WW who are bold and beautiful in the face of adversity. Here 60's ideas of feminism really come into their own. It was never about burning bras, it was about claiming our own identity. I loved the remark that we enjoyed being mothers and gave it our all. Now we can relax into finding ourselves again. Did you know that happiness researchers have found that the years between 60 and 75 (or thereabouts, for some of us they go on and on and on ....) are very happy years. Thought we should remind ourselves: the best is yet to come!  :)
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pooh on October 31, 2011, 06:15:13 AM
My DH is on the short side, is shorter than me, and drives an itty, bitty convertible VW.  ;D

My DH decided he wants to run an 8K on Thanksgiving morning.  Apparently a downtown business sponsors what they call a "Turkey Trot" (LOL, cracks me up) on Thanksgiving morning early.  So I am going to go bundle up with hot chocolate and root him on.  Get to use my glitter again on a sign....WOOT!  I'm going to get with my Mom, who we normally go over early on Thanksgiving and I help her cook the meal all morning, and see if we can either push back a couple of hours or if she can muddle along without me for the first couple of hours.  Ok, that sounds funny, because seriously, she does all the cooking, I just assist, hand her things and keep things clean.  She's not going to care.  It's more of just her and I spending time together in the kitchen.  It will probably be just my Mom, SD, me and DH again.

Then we leave there and travel back to his Mothers where his family gathers.  They eat at the same time as my Mom's, so we bring pumpkin pies (at their request because I make a really good one) and have dessert, coffee and socialize with all of them for a few hours.  This is what my DH likes to do as his family drives him bonkers after a couple of hours!  Not in a bad way, just most of them are really out there...but they are all nice.

Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: elizabeth on October 31, 2011, 08:59:34 AM
Pooh,

This is a perfect Thanksgiving Day plan, both families and yet not having to eat two full dinners.
Everybody's happy.
Title: Re: How Do I Change So It Doesn't Hurt So Bad
Post by: Pooh on October 31, 2011, 09:03:08 AM
I'm lucky to have two families that are very easy-going and understanding.