Firstly, thank you so much for all the wisdom shared here. This site and all I've learned from it has been a Godsend, and helped me further along path to my own peace and well-being after being blind-sided by my DD and SIL's behaviours in the past few years. I'm reading "Abandoned Parents: The Devil's Dilemma" and cannot recommend it enough. I know it will be my go-to book for insights and I'll be re-reading it many times. There are few things I've learned in dealing with my DD, especially in the past year--learned both the hard way through painful lessons, and through my own insights and work on myself.
This is what I know: I cannot look for rational "reasons" for irrational behaviour and faulty actions. For peace of mind, I cannot expect anything from them. I must work on detaching from any outcome. I must use this time to work on myself, nurture my own growth, and keep peace in my life as the priority. I am not the problem.
But my questions then are: How much do I still try to engage with my DD?? ( I live thousands of miles from her.) In the past year, anything I've sent for birthdays, Christmas, holidays, just-because, has remained unacknowledged and certainly no thanks or appreciation has been given. Just silence. Do I stop sending things--even birthday cards? I'm also not allowed to visit any longer and the only connection to my two GD (2 and 5yrs) in the past year has been through FaceTime, but even that has diminished to nearly nothing--but do I keep trying? I've stopped asking to visit--even for an afternoon, when I was told they were "too busy"--and will wait until I'm invited to their home, but how much contact should I keep up on my end? In other words--do I just let go completely? Is it OK to remind her once in awhile that I love her and that I'm still here? Mother's Day is coming up and I've always sent her a card and a gift--but do I just let that go? Do I just completely stop reaching out to her?
Thank you again for the time and effort you all spend sharing your wisdom here. This is a kind of pain I've never experienced before, but if we all grow from what we're experiencing, then it won't have been for nothing.
I was having the same dilemma. My ad did not acknowledge cards or gifts. I even made a baby blanket for her unborn child which she ignored. I finally decided not to send anything, not even cards. She says she finally has complete peace of mind without us. I think that is rather a sociopathic attitude but that's her problem. We cut her out of the will (well left her a small tidbit as recommended by our attorney) and that has allowed me a step toward some type of finality. I guess that sounds a little selfish to some but I don't care. She put a knife in my heart and she twists it whenever she can.
C, I know the feeling when you finally find this site and realize you are not alone!! I read for hours and each bit of advice I found soothed my overly raw nerves. Relations with my now DIL have improved but I guess they will never be as good as I had hoped they would be. The relationship with my DS has changed forever and I guess that is just what happens when they grow up and decide they do not want or need your input in their lives. At least I do not have to feel responsible for any errors they make (of course they won't tell me if they make any mistakes! LOL).
In my opinion Mother's day is a day when you give your mother a gift. I do not give the mother of my GC a gift, they should get their gifts and cards from their children and spouse. I send something to my MIL and if my mother were alive I would send something to her. That said I would definitely not send her anything for Mother's Day not out of meanness but because she did not birth me or my DH. As for other contact I think of it like this:
Our children and their families are in a room with many doors. When someone knocks on a door they go over and open it up. If the person who is knocking is a welcome intrusion on their time they let them in for a visit. I knocked on my DS's door all the time! It finally got to the point where when I knocked they rolled their eyes and ignored me. It was my fault for knocking so much but at that time they were not married and I had no idea how much my role had changed. When I finally figured it out I quit knocking. It took a while but eventually they noticed that the door I was behind was silent. The key is to make it silent but not gone so you have to call them sometimes but not very often.
The next step is what you talk about when they do open the door. It is better if you have wonderful things to tell them that have been happening in your life when they call. This means that during the time while you are not calling them you should go out and do fun things!! That way when you talk the bulk of the conversation is not questions from you and answers from them. Take trips and tell them about them. Make your life interesting and not just about what is happening in their life. Fortunately for me they got pregnant a few months after that and suddenly my DS wanted me in his life. Now he calls me to babysit every once in a while.
As for the non acknowledgement for gifts I struggle with that also. I told them once that when they did not let me know anything it made me feel like they did not want a gift at all or at least they did not care one way or the other. I thought about just giving checks so that if they did not get them the money would not be lost. It seems so impersonal.... so I just send it to them, wait a few days and then ask. The asking seems to embarrass them but I figure it is their fault, not mine.
Good luck!!
Wonderful to hear that you are moving. Getting stuck was the hardest thing for me. I think it gets pretty individualistic regarding what we choose to change. For most of us it came down to why we were sending gifts and cards ( and sometimes emails and texts). I thought for a long time that I was reminding DIL that I loved her but eventually got that it was my way to try to remain visible. Some of us have continued with cards and gifts because it brings us joy, whether responded to or not. Others, knowing they would end up in the trash, have stopped. Eventually, my own rule of thumb was to do my best to ask myself what my motivation was, however painful it turned out to be at times...but not always. I think what we do is about us. Sending more hugs!
Welcome C. Glad you found us.
Thank you so much for the very, very helpful replies. They've helped me zero in on the things I need to look at in myself. Looking at my motives for trying to stay connected, communicating, or sending gifts and cards seems an especially healthy thing to do--so thank you for that insight. I'm so grateful to have found a safe place like this and I pray everyday we can all find the grace to grow from our painful experiences. xxxooo
I looked at my motivation for why I kept sending cards, gifts, that were barely acknowledged and that I never received anything on Mother's Day or birthday. I thought about how I felt and decided I would rather do just a card for their birthdays because just doing a card keeps me detached. Sending a gift keeps me hopeful and it is hard since I really don't know these kids any more. My SIL gets nothing and has for several years as he has never acknowledged a thank you and he prefers his parents very obviously. So last year, my AC just got cards. Surprise surprise they all remembered my birthday. Part of my story is a mean AD but also an ex that still tries to alienate them from me and now his new wife who wants them to be her kids, as her kids are MIA.
It has been very liberating for me to quit trying to please the unpleasable (not a word, I know.) Enough got to be enough and one day I let it all go (thanks, WWU!) After many years I finally realized that no amount of money, gifts, phone calls, cards, favors, etc. would make "them" like me & reciprocate. Now I wish I had the hours and dollars back, lol.
Pen - I agree. Wish I had all the time and money back too. I spent hours and hours shopping for great things for dd and her kids. I loved it - don't get me wrong. But it was not appreciated. In fact, I think it made dd jealous that I spent so much on her kids. I think she wanted ALL the attention and the gifts. Ironic the things I did get her she never appreciated. Doesn't make sense to me. She doesn't make sense. I never saw anyone with such deep hate and anger. Anyway, I'm done with the cards and gifts for her and her family.
It's been a difficult day. She is constantly on my mind. Can these people live happy lives when they have been so hateful to loving parents? I just don't get it. Aren't they miserable if they know they are inflicting such horrible degrees of happiness on their parents? Don't they feel lonely? My DD seems to be enjoying it.
oops. i meant unhappiness ::)
Fixed it. ;)
I want to officially welcome you, C. We ask all new members to go to our HomePage and under Open Me First, to read the five posts placed there for you. Please pay special attention to the Forum Agreement to be sure WWU is a fit for you. We're a monitored Website. Hugs...
Thank you! :)
Quote from: dogmusic on April 25, 2015, 02:30:54 PM
Pen - I agree. Wish I had all the time and money back too. I spent hours and hours shopping for great things for dd and her kids. I loved it - don't get me wrong. But it was not appreciated. In fact, I think it made dd jealous that I spent so much on her kids. I think she wanted ALL the attention and the gifts. Ironic the things I did get her she never appreciated. Doesn't make sense to me. She doesn't make sense. I never saw anyone with such deep hate and anger. Anyway, I'm done with the cards and gifts for her and her family.
It's been a difficult day. She is constantly on my mind. Can these people live happy lives when they have been so hateful to loving parents? I just don't get it. Aren't they miserable if they know they are inflicting such horrible degrees of happiness on their parents? Don't they feel lonely? My DD seems to be enjoying it.
Pen and dogmusic it is so true--it was like the more I did, the worse her behaviour toward me became. And I do feel like they find some degree of twisted "happiness" in making us miserable (especially the SIL), feeling like they can control the situation and us. For me, and for the rest of the family, moving on with happy lives took the power away from them and gave it back to us. They're now still spiralling into more chaos while the rest of the family flourishes and our bond has grown. The remaining pain is that my two GDs are living in that chaos and not part of a loving, extended family.
"They're now still spiralling into more chaos while the rest of the family flourishes and our bond has grown. The remaining pain is that my two GDs are living in that chaos and not part of a loving, extended family."
CLGH - My DH were talking and predicting that this is probably what will happen to us in the future. We will eventually get stronger and the void left by our DD will be filled with better relationships. I do feel so badly for her children though. I don't know what they are experiencing.
Here's an interesting twist on the whole gift thing:
It turns out that my DS/DIL have been giving DIL's DM & I the same gifts for certain holidays. DIL makes sure I know this and what her DM's reaction is. Sometimes DIL's DM doesn't like the gift and asks for something else instead. DS/DIL are OK with that! And here I've been thrilled just to get anything from them, lol. It's odd, it seems kind of a put down towards me that I graciously accept what is now seen as a "bad" gift by DIL's DM. Of course they don't tell me until I've thanked them for the gift.
I can't imagine what would be said if I pulled the same maneuver as DIL's DM...it's just not in my nature or upbringing, I guess, to be ungrateful or picky. Perhaps I should learn?? DIL's DM certainly gets whatever she wants whenever she wants it!
The inequity seems to continue even when morphing into different forms. It's like you need to be reminded of your status or lack thereof by DIL. You did not produced a Princess, nor were you one, and Queen status will never be granted. I know how hard it must be to have to live with that and keep reminding yourself that it has absolutely nothing to do with you. Truth, Pen...IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU! Your son made his choice which was his right and it was, is, may always be, a package deal. How ridiculous...yet ever-present. Sending love...lots of love...in big bunches!
I have not posted on this site for some time because I've just been too heartsick and sickened by myself that I am stuck in the same pain after 7 years. When I finally told my DH I'd had enough of his drinking my 3 DD's were 26, 23, 19, away at college, and my DS was 25. It was complicated years of confusion in my head about whether I should not like his drinking and hiding it from the kids as best I could. I really, really was a good mom. I did everything I was supposed to do and more. I came last and that was ok with me. I found out that he met with my kids behind my back (I read his e mails) and told them I was mentally ill, talking about divorce and my oldest daughter actually responded like she believed him. I moved out and e mailed all of my children the truth about everything, let them know how disappointed I was that they stabbed me in the back with their father. They have kept me at a distance and ostracized me every since. I have cried, begged, moved away to family for comfort, came back and still they treat me so cold. The oldest has my 3 GK's lives in our own and I have to contact her and ask to see them and she'll give me an appointment sometimes weeks away. I bring dinner and she barely talks to me, treats me like I'm beneath her. The YD was a very tough teenager and I got her through many of her antics when she was trying to derail her life, having sex with a dropout, finding out she was huffing, she refused to share her grades with us, one thing after the other. Of course DH let me take all the falls. She is about to be 27 and she has not talked to me for years and last Mother's Day was my birthday also and I tried to contact her and somewhat harshly told her it hurt and that I saw her through everything and she just replied that I was an incompetent unloving mother. Just means words to make me feel bad and it worked. DD # 2 got engaged last September and I found out from my sister in another state because she saw it on Facebook. I waited a few days and finally called her and congratulated her and it was like I was calling an acquaintance. I got one e mail link from her explaining her wedding plans in October. Nothing after that and at Christmas they all got together and excluded me. For the first time in my life I spent Christmas alone. A friend invited me to her house and it made me feel worse. I was in shell shock. My DS did nothing. He wanted to come see me before he left town but I was in too much pain and he didn't understand it. By January I e mailed me DD #2 asking about her dress, offered to contribute to it. Asked if she sent Save The Dates. Did I need to make my own hotel arrangements. She just responded nothing about what I asked but lodging was up to me. By February I contacted her and said why was I not good enough, were we not rich enough? Ignored. By March 18 of this year after trying to call all 3 of my daughters and try to reach out, they ignored me. I got so upset I just showed up at my health provider mental health and they took me in and arranged for me to see someone that day and I left with antidepressants and a therapist. I've been seeing a therapist since about every 2 weeks and it has helped. Out of the blue this weekend I get an e mail from the DD #2 telling me that it seems that I e mail her to hurt her, that there are people coming from out of town for her wedding and she needed to be present and that I need to show her over the next few months that I can be a guest without causing her hurt. I couldn't believe it; I responded as best I could asking how does she expect me to feel when they treat me like I don't exist. No response so now I've HURT her again. It's so painful. She ruined my weekend and I feel like dying again. I'm alone struggling financially because our divorce happened during the bad economy and I had quit my job from depression and left for Chicago to see my FOO for a while because my DM was dying from Alzheimer's. After she died I came back here and have really tried to fit in with them but they do not love me. My ex has criticized me about everything and like him they blame me for everything. I too have sent cards and money and gifts unacknowledged and after Christmas this year I have not. I did not get a call from any of my daughters on Mother's Day nor my birthday the next day. My DS came to visit but it is an elephant in the room with him and he doesn't want to hear from me about it. I am 64 how long can I grieve this. I've tried to seek relationships but I can't explain this to anyone. I have friends who help but they don't understand, they saw me as a parent and know I was a good mom. I feel worthless and yet they don't even care. This site has helped me, even though I haven't felt up to posting I get so much from yours.
All I know to do, DM, is to send you love and encourage you to work closely with your therapist. It sounds like you held everything together by covering up the drinking and when you faced that, no one could accept the truth and you were the scapegoat. I may be wrong but if that's true, the sooner you step out of abuse the sooner you will start to heal. You can't fix it or change them...but you can turn toward healing yourself. From what I have read here, I think Al Anon would be supportive, too.
Thank you Louise for your words of support and wisdom. I spent 6 years in Al Anon before I finally left my husband. I think it might help but kind of dread drudging up old feelings. It's like being in a dark hole. I want out. I'll try anything. I have rescue dogs, 3 of them, they give me a reason to go on. Sounds silly I know but we get comfort where we can I guess.
My experience is that dogs, at least mine, love unconditionally. They never judge. Mine has pulled me out of many a dark hole. Right now, it's getting a pacemaker at age 88. She's always there for me. Three Rescue dogs! What a blessing...well, three blessings! :) :) :)
I was like you in many ways. I covered up the ex's drinking and drug use until I could not any longer. I put up with his disrespect and his ignoring of the children. And when we first separated, the AC were all angry that he was calling them when incoherent and crazy. But guess what, like you, I am now the ostracized one. The ex has a new wife, they are both narcissists, and the new wife's AC are not around so she has made my AC "HER" children. They treat her better than me! I had to move away from the little town we lived in as it was too much seeing him drunk/high around places of having people telling me how they saw him such and such a place. Yet, he is now the two AC "best friend and hero" according to their Facebook (I closed mine as this kind of stuff broke my heart). It is not fair. I was also the "good mother" and kept things in place for so long. I think there is a back lash when the "good parent" stops the juggling act and lets the plates hit the ground. We become the cause of the problem because we dropped the plates. I think what we did was natural but at the same time, our covering up and denial opened the door for more manipulation and the alienation that the alcoholic brought into our lives after the divorce. Please know you are not alone. It is not about you, and you have to realize this is not about how you were as a mother or anything. Does this make sense, it is not about you personally, it is about the scum you married and his desire to do harm to you. Some of your kids also have substance abuse problems and this is a toxic situation and usually creates crap and manipulation towards the parents. No matter what, divorce or no divorce. Their behavior is about their substance abuse issues, and their nasty behavior. Not about you. I have read that alcoholism is a disease of self centered people, they are all about themselves and their pain and don't care that it impacts others. You might do some internet reading on narcissism. Where I am now, is detaching. And yes, I feel like a stranger to three of my four AC. But I examined this recently and realized it is better this way. Better to not care how little they care about me, better to just be polite and friendly when invited, if invited, and reserved and detached on the inside. Otherwise, it eats you up inside, causes depression. And frankly, I do not want to be depressed. I like feeling happier inside. I like owning my own power and not giving it to my AC or ex to dictate how my life goes. Dr Josua Coleman says women often have a difficult time letting go of the title of mother, the role of mother, and he is so right. Once I gave up this role in my head, the title I loved, I felt more peace. It is okay, life is about change and my mothering days are over. Time to focus on me and like you, improving my bad career that tanked in the recession. Blessings and prayers to you.
Gosh we have similar stories and the pain so tough to deal with at times. I would like to blame substance abuse but only the Ex was the alcohol abuser. I know the youngest one that experimented with huffing as a teen likes to drink and that worries me. It's all out of our hands. When something comes up like my daughter e mailing me this weekend it is hard to get back to feeling ok again; somehow I end up beating myself up. Luckily I do like my therapist and he mentioned recently that as drinkers are self centered they don't particularly care about others around them and that perhaps my daughters absorbed from him my unimportance in the family, that as he drank more and I became less tolerant he distanced himself from me. I don't know, I feel like this is something that I will have to live with forever and if I think that it is overwhelming so I am really trying to live in the present. Thank you so much for your kind words of support. This is a wonderful forum. ;)
It is so unfair that all of you are put in this situation! I cannot help but think that the entire time you were raising your children they knew that you loved them and were proud of them. As wonderful mothers you let them know and they have also always known that they could depend on you if they needed you. Your spouses, well that was a different story. So your children grew up missing the love and approval that they did not get from your spouse. Enter the great divorce.....
Now your ex has actively enlisted your AC in his attempts to hurt you. He has turned them against you and has started giving them the approval they have wanted their whole lives, that is as long as they agree with him. You cannot hold it against your AC. For the first time in forever they are basking in the glory of their father's loving gaze and it will take them a while to figure out what has happened, if they ever do. You cannot point out this strategy without making yourself out to be somewhat less than competent. So what do you do?
You find something that makes you happy and you focus on it. You spend your time discovering things you enjoy and start doing them more often. You did an excellent job raising your children and now it is time to trust that the things you taught them will rise to the top and they will see things clearly. Get on with your life and remember that any ill feelings you hold toward someone else will eat at the joy and health in your life. Life is too short to let that man you kicked to the side affect your happiness any longer. Hugs!
Thank you Stilllearning, I hadn't thought about that - their Dad was pretty emotionally absent, more involved with his drinking and constant computer use. He was addicted to games. I had spoken to him so many times that he should show our girls more affection, of course he never listened to me. It makes sense that now hey have his attention. I just feel that by now they should see through him. His health is failing because of his bad habits and now they feel sorry for him. I really am glad that I can come to a place that understands my situation; it's such a dark place and it's always with me. :'(