I haven't been here the last three weeks for many reasons. I have been very busy at work mainly, but also because I have been fighting with myself over my DS and DIL. I had taken the attitude a couple of months ago, that I wasn't going to worry about them any longer, and psssshhh on them. I had not cut them off, just wasn't contacting them and leaving them alone. Not that I bothered them, but I had been texting my son at least once a week just asking how things were going. I finally realized that they never initiated contact and that I had not seen them in almost a year, so I decided I was done being the initiator.
But, a couple of things happened that has just caused me so much anger at both of them that I needed a cooling off period. My Mother has always viewed Thanksgiving as her favorite holiday. She has always cooked Thanksgiving lunch and there is always around 15 of us there. My sons were raised attending it, and then we would go to my MILs for dinner. DIL has attended every since she was a girlfriend, and last year as a wife. I was very disappointed in their behavior last year, as they walked in the door 5 minutes prior to eating, ate and then as all the women in the family were helping clean up, my DIL plopped down on the couch with all the men and didn't even offer to help. Ok, so although I was disappointed in that behavior, not a requirement...I just found it very rude of them.
So for the first time ever in my 43 years, my Mother let me know 3 weeks ago, that my brother and his family could not attend this year. Plus his two kids, both had babies about 3 months ago and are not up for the trip (it is about 14 hours for all of them). I know she was disappointed, but she understood. So I told her, well Mom, there is no sense in you going to all that work for just you and Dad, me and DH and my DS and DIL. Don't worry about it. She then very quietly said, "I still want to cook. I love Thanksgiving." So I told her that me and DH would come if she still wanted to do it and that I would verify with DS and DIL.
So I text my son that evening and this was the exact text, "XXXXX and their family are not going to be able to make Thanksgiving this year, but your MeMaw still wants to cook and do it. Me and DH are attending and MeMaw wants to make sure you guys are still planning on coming, so she can plan food quantities. Are you and XXXXX planning on coming this year?"
(And on a sidenote, DILs family does Thanksgiving at 6:00 p.m. so it has never been an issue)
So, I get no answer. I wait a few days, then I emailed my DIL and asked the same question. Also, in the meantime, our Christmas plans this year got all changed around. Long story short, my brother's wife wants to do Christmas at her parents this year and they live about 3 hours from all of us. So they invited everyone to her Mom's on Christmas. That shortens the trip for those with little babies too and makes it easier on about 10 people. So my Mother called and asked me if it would hurt our feelings if they went down there and did Christmas instead of my Mother's (again, something that has never been done in my 43 years...Lol). I just laughed because I know my Mother wants to see those great-grandbabies! So I told her no, it would be fine, but we would not be able to attend because we already had commitments for Christmas evening with my DH's family. But that we would get with her before or after Christmas. No biggie and that she needed to go! So she asked me to extend that invitation to DS and DIL as well, even though we know normally they have family plans with her parent's on Christmas night. So I included that in the email as well, that they were invited too but that I knew that they normally have plans with her family that evening. But, if they wanted to go, just let me know so we could give my SIL a final count for her parents. And if they couldn't or didn't want to, let me know if the weekend before or after would be good to plan something with their MeMaw.
It has been three weeks and neither one of them have answered. No response period on Thanksgiving or Christmas.
Now, this is why I am so angry. I have grown used to them being rude to me. I have come to the point in my life where I have made peace with that and just let it go. But now...they are being rude to my Mother! My Son's MeMaw who has always been there for them. The person that opened her entire home to them last year for their wedding. The person that has never said or done anything to them. I am about furious!!!! I did not raise my Son to be a rude person, and definately not to his own MeMaw!
So my Mother calls me yesterday and wants to know how many are coming. I told her I had not heard from them, so just plan on it being the 4 of us. I am so done with their rudeness. And that is what it is, plain and simple. It has been 3 weeks and they can not even send a simple text saying, "Yes, we are coming or no we are not?" Yes, I am angry.
You know Pooh, people are weird. We had a poster on here a while ago who complained about being invited by a third party. So is it possible that your DIL & DS have developed this "need" to be actually invited by your Mom?
Because a text can't always be answered right away (DIL and DS would want to consult with one another) but then it goes down the list of 'recent texts' and there's no reminder.
I'm betting that the answer is "no" and DIL wants DS to be the one to say it, but DS is too chicken, so he's putting it off.
I think you should have your Mom call them and put them on the spot. I think there should absolutely be NO repercussions on them for saying 'no', but you can feel free to lambaste DS for dawdling on the answer. That's just rude.
hi pooh,
i hear your anger. i was in your shoes a few weeks ago with my ds and dil. only thing different was, my ds and dil didn't come to his GM last holiday, ever! they did however give me and answer, which i now wish i wouldn't have heard, they missed his memaws last holiday, FOR SHOPPING!!
it hurts deeply when my ds ignores all his family, and family values, for hers. she even went as far one year, to tell me, "my family does this every year, WE have family traditions" ??? ???
oh, apparently we don't???
what a shame, I'm sorry pooh. i have to believe that what comes around goes around, i just wish ds had more of a spine when it came to "his family traditions" but i have seen what he must endure if he stands up to her, and its unbearable, for him and me.
i never want to believe it will be this way (her way or no way) forever, but I'm afraid it will be. each year, he falls away a little more, and each year he takes a piece of my heart with him. i cry, i fall apart, i deal, adjust, and wait for the next ground shaker.
hugs to you...............
You could be right Scroop about the 3rd party thing, but that is how it has always been. My Mother is not tech-savvy, doesn't even own a cell phone or have a computer. They have not contacted her since last Christmas and bought a house 10 minutes away from her in May. My Mother is the most unobtrusive person you have ever met and I have always been the hub of information for everyone because my brother, kids, neices and nephews all like emails and text.
If they have developed this need, then they need to communicate it to someone because that's just how it has always been. Can't read their minds.
And that's why I am so angry. There has never been any reprecussions in our family for non-attendance. None of us operate that way. And both the texts and emails "asked", not told.
Dear Pooh
I'm so so very sorry to read that your son and DIL are so very unthinking and rude??????
Hun, don't allow it to control you....and be confident that your in my thoughts and prayers...
Love you
Creme
I hope you have a lovely time, anyhow. Holidays are so loaded. Bending love...
Thanks everyone. We will have a great time with my Mom and Dad, like always. And I leave on my first cruise Sunday, so am super excited. Just so disappointed in that son's behavior.
On the other side, YS called and is getting to come home two weeks for Christmas. He let me know his Dad had to work the holidays, so he is going there for the first five days, then coming to our house from Christmas Eve until January 1st!!!! Super excited to see him and thankful the military gave them a Christmas exodus!
Dear Pooh:
It is odd and rude that they have not gotten back to you. Is it possible that they fear hurting your feelings and they are putting off getting back to you because they don't want to do that? That is what my DH always does--I always tell him: just bite the bullet and tell people what you want to do! He is too scared of hurting feelings and often puts off getting back to people because of this. Plus, their holiday sounds like a very busy (and not terribly enjoyable) Thanksgiving to rush from one family member's home to another. Perhaps they are having trouble negotiating with all of their family members to come up with a plan that keeps them sane and keeps everyone happy (probably not possible). Is it possible that they are tired of rushing around to please everyone?
Perhaps you could send an email saying that since you haven't heard from them you assumed that they were not coming and you gave Memaw the final head count already (I would be careful not to make this email sound angry. I know you are upset that they didn't get back to you--but they may misinterpret an angry email as one that shows that you think that you "own" them at Thanksgiving--a common complaint from grown children).
One thing-I don't understand why you were upset with DIL for not cleaning up, but thought it was fine for your DS to plop down in front of the TV without helping? Many young women today were not raised with the (rather sexist) idea that it is "women's work" to cook and clean. I think that if you were upset with DIL, you should also be upset with DS--because they both behaved badly by not helping. Just because DIL is a woman--it shouldn't mean that she has additional duties to cook and clean (IMHO). Good luck!
I can see where you are coming from. They have always said in the past they enjoyed Thanksgiving at MeMaws. We started doing it at 12:00 a few years ago to accomodate her family's time in the evening. They have always been told what a hard time we had rushing around at holidays, and know that we would totally understand if they didn't want to come. Actually, we used to do it at 6:00 but that was the same time her family did and they asked if we could do it at lunch so they could come to both. Maybe they thought they were being nice? Who knows. All I know is it is rude for them not to respond at all, even with a no.
I was disappointed in both of their behaviors (I put that in my original post). There has been a long-standing tradition in our family that after we eat, the men plop down in front of the television for football, and the women let my Mother sit down (since she basically cooks all night and morning) and cleans up. There are 4 women (me, my SIL and my two grown nieces) that clean up. We give her a break. I said in my post, I was disappointed in both of them. I would have thought she would have taken the cue and volunteered, but that was ok, she didn't have to. And I was disappointed in him for not offering since she wasn't. So thus, disappointed in both of them.
And I don't believe anything is "women's work" or "men's work". This is something that has always transpired on Thanksgiving and has nothing to do with men or women. Just an appreciation for all my Mother's hard work.
And I guess I should clarify, I was disappointed. Not angry or mad at them. I just couldn't sit there and watch all the other females in the house help clean up and not offer. It is also time we all spend laughing and catching up while we clean. Now I know she was raised different and I don't expect everyone to follow suit just because we have always done it this way, but there have been many instances of her rudesness, so it's not just this.
Great about YS coming! ;D ;D ;D
Thanks Luise...I am so glad. He sounded so disappointed about a month ago when he was not sure if they were going to let them come home. Then he sounded so happy when he called to tell me.
Pooh, it's great to hear from you. Good news about YS! I'm happy for you all. Sorry the other plans aren't working out for you. Try to focus on the good stuff, and do take care of yourself. Thinking of you.
Thanks guys. I have so much to be thankful for and that is what I am doing. I am so blessed and lucky for most everything in my life. I think this one just got to me. I remember the old saying "You can do what you want to me, just don't mess with my kids." Well, I think that holds true in my case too for my Mother. Angel on earth I tell you although no one deserves to be treated badly, she definately does not.
Quote from: Pooh on November 22, 2010, 09:14:14 AM
Thanks everyone. We will have a great time with my Mom and Dad, like always. And I leave on my first cruise Sunday, so am super excited. Just so disappointed in that son's behavior.
On the other side, YS called and is getting to come home two weeks for Christmas. He let me know his Dad had to work the holidays, so he is going there for the first five days, then coming to our house from Christmas Eve until January 1st!!!! Super excited to see him and thankful the military gave them a Christmas exodus!
Oh that is so exciting, and a cruise....Pooh, hope you have a great time with ys and on that cruise....where are you going? I would love to see Granada.....
have missed you whole bunches.....
Maybe it might be a good idea to adopt a new tradition this year--men in charge of clean up duties! :)
Maybe you should also suggest to DS that he and his DW talk about rotating Thanksgiving between his wife's family and yours (one year at hers, one year at his) so that they do not feel obligated to rush to 2 different homes on Thanksgiving. Like I said, this does not sound like a very fun day for them (can you imagine driving from your home, to a second home then to a third home, then all the way back to your home in a single day? Are they traveling long distances? Possibly with snow on the ground?).
They probably get negative vibes from both your side and her side because both sides feel upset that they didn't get enough "time" with the couple. Then, the couple gets angry because no matter what, someone will always be upset even though they have driven all over the place, spread themselves very thin and worn themselves out on a day that is supposed to be relaxing and fun for them (it is their Holiday too!). You don't want your DS and DIL to feel that they can't win with you no matter what they do--this is when many people get frustrated and just give up (and stop visiting at all).
You may also consider that this new family will be starting their own traditions (like eating Thanksgiving at their own house) that do not fall into the family traditions that you established with your family when you married and had your children. If and when they do start establishing their own traditions and family unit, I hope that you will be gracious and not take this as a personal attack. Good luck.
Sorry Mrs Kitty, I appreciate your insights, but not true in our case. They live in the same town with both grandparents. 10 minutes away from one, and 5 from the other. Again, they have never been pressured to do anything on holidays, and are always asked. And no snow, 75 degrees right now. And yes, I know exactly how it feels. Did it for 20 years, for 4 houses on Thanksgiving (divorced parents) and Christmas which is why we do not pressure them.
I think you missed the fact that I am not mad at them for not coming, or making other plans, just for not letting anyone know one way or the other.
I am perfectly fine with them not coming, just not fine with their rudeness of not answering.
Thanks Creme, missed you guys too! We are going to Nassau and Freeport with one day at sea.
Dear Pooh-
Sorry my post was not helpful.
I didn't miss what you said. Rather, I've noticed that often people say they're upset about one thing--but they're really upset about something else. Little things in your post (like mentioning the traditions of the holiday--how things have always done for decades, etc.) led me to think that maybe you are really upset that they are not upholding your family's traditions, but that the rudeness of their not replying was something you could point to as a concrete behavior that you did not like.
As my advice was not helpful to you, I hope that some other MIL might find my comments helpful. I have a really nice relationship with my MIL and I think it is because I do my best to see things from her perspective and she does her best to see things from my perspective. We don't always agree and neither of us requires that type of agreement (or submission) of the other.
I was hoping to offer a DIL's perspective that might help you or others to understand the other side of the coin. I think that often, people perceive slights where none were intended and as a result, tensions can rise and people can develop bad relationships because they don't stop to think that the other person's goal is just to live their life (not to make yours miserable). Good luck.
I totally appreciate your suggestions MrsKitty. I truly do. I didn't take offense to anything you said. I always try to see the other side and appreciate when a DIL presents that to me. There have been many times where I say after reading something, "Hmmm didn't think about that."
I just have to draw the line at total rudeness. And to me, that is what this is, from both my DS and DIL by not replying at all, so my Mother could decided how much food. And this has been on ongoing issue. And no, I am not mad at anything but the rudeness. Considering we have not seen them in almost a year, and we live about an hour away, I have no expectations of anything anymore when it comes to them attending family funcations. I have not even seen their new house because in May, when I last spoke to my son on the phone, I told him I would love to see their new house, but understood how hard it was getting settled in a new place, so would wait for an invitation to visit. We are very unintrusive and believe in letting them live their own lives. I don't think a reply after 3 weeks is too much to ask so that my Mother can plan food quantities.
I agree that getting a reply is 100% not too much to ask. It sounds like your son has not been very polite or thoughtful of his relationship with you. That is something that he needs to work on, and I don't know what you might be able to do to encourage him to be more responsive/polite/thoughtful. If I were you, I would try to address this with your son. I would ask him how he would feel if he invited you to a dinner (dare to dream) and you failed to respond so that he could plan properly. I wouldn't lay any blame at the DIL's door for the lack of response, as in my opinion, it really is your DS's job to maintain his relationship with his parents.
I used to bug my DH to call his mom more so that she would know that he was thinking about her. One day, a light came over my head and I realized that I can't foster his relationship with his Mom if he's not willing to put the work in. I mean, when in his life has he ever told me to call my mom? Hint: never. So, I let go and left it up to him. I found that when I left him alone about it and put the responsibility for his relationships back on his shoulders, he did better. Good luck.
Thanks MrsKitty. I totally agree with you that it is my DS's responsiblity. My reasoning behind sending her the email was because I thought maybe, she got a little miffed that I asked him instead of her. That I wasn't valuing her role in their marriage and that by only asking him questions, she might feel I was purposefully slighting her.
Oh dear. I see your reasoning. My MIL tends to copy both me and DH on all her emails that pertain to plans so that we both know what is going on. I like that she does this because my DH often forgets to let me know about possible plans until the last minute--men! ::). This way, she and I can communicate, but my DH is also responsible for doing his part to contribute to his relationship with her. I never expected her to copy me on such emails--she just did it on her own and I think it is really thoughtful of her (and helpful to me).
It is so funny what we all do to avoid upsetting someone else. When I was new to my marriage, I was bugging my DH to call his mom to check in with her because I was afraid she would get mad at me if he did not call her. Like I said, I eventually just let go because I realized that I can't make him be thoughtful or considerate--he has to do that on his own. I don't know if she has ever gotten upset with me about him not calling enough. I doubt it because I think she knows that I don't have the power to make my DH do certain things (just like she doesn't have the power to make her DH do certain things). Good luck.
I don't feel qualified to give anyone advice, but the one thing I would suggest is an actual call. People hide behind text and email in very many ways. I would call at a time that you believe convenient to them. With caller ID, they may not answer. I would not leave a message the first or even the second time. As a last resort, I would leave a voicemail with the details and indicate that if there is no response by a certain date, you will assume that they are unable to attend and that everyone will miss seeing them. Obviously, it is a little late for this approach at this point, but maybe in the future, you can give it a try. At least you won't be left hanging and you may even get the opportunity to speak with your son about his insensitivity to MeMaw, if nothing else. And yes, even MeMaw can probably use the phone. Maybe DS would be less likely to ignore MeMaw!
Finally, with regard to DILs clean-up behavior.....sometimes those situations can be diffused with a bit of humor and cajoling. Assuming that you get another chance at her.........I'd suggest that you tell her that you'd hate to see her be robbed of the joy of cleaning up with the other women and that you've got a dish towel with her name on it. ;)
I agree Nonamehere... I feel that you are always setting yourself up for miscommunication when only corresponding via e-mail and text messages. You never know if they actually received the messages, or how they perceived what you were saying. If you can not speak to them directly then a phone call is the next best thing. I will always say that I will follow up a conversation with a email that will reiterate times/directions/or other necessary information.
As far as the dil not helping out in the kitchen.. did she feel invited to help out? While I've always been the type of person just to jump in, she may have been unsure of where she should be. I know my own dil the first time we had a get together did not help out and quietly sat down. The next time I asked her if she minded bringing a couple of items from the table or helping to set up the desert table. Since that time she jumps right in and knows that while the guys are scratching and yawning mindlessly in front of the tv, we are opening the new bottle of wine and having some good laughs.
My own mother made her only dil cry because the girl put leftovers into the wrong container, and god forbid she then put it on the wrong shelf in the fridge. By the end of the table clearing she had all but destroyed this poor girl... needless to say.. that dil will never again assume that her help is appreciated.
Thanks guys for all the suggestions and advice. I probably should have tried calling them last week to see if they would answer but I will admit, my stubborness kicked in. Because I have tried to initiate phone calls and do not get calls back for the last year, a couple of months ago I decided I wasn't doing it anymore. So I sent the text and email just because my Mother asked for me to find out for her. I totally agree face to face is best, and phone call next. But I haven't had those opportunities in the last year when I have tried. It is such a minefield I am walking. So at this moment, I am not doing anything but leaving it in their court. Doesn't mean I can't be very disappointed in my son's rudeness. But if I am going to leave it at that, I can't let it get to me....I know.
We have invited her to join in on different occasions. (I can't honestly say if any of us specifically did this time).My SIL has tried, I have tried, my niece's have tried. It has been done with humor and sometimes, just asked if she wanted to come join us. We usually get a "No", or a head shake and she sits where she is. Ok, I get that no matter how I feel, this is how she is. But it still disappoints me.
Sure it's disappointing, more so because she is excluding herself from the company of others who care to know more about her. If your son is not included or invited then he can not be rude about not responding. Since he has shown that this is going to be his new repetitive approach then I would not bother asking and make the assumption that he and his wife will not attend. This way it's entirely up to them to come forward with their desires. Let them live with the consequences of their actions. In doing so you will protect your own heart a little more.
Wow Pooh, I and DH would avoid this too. Please don't take offense but these are just my thoughts. I asked a few of my friends and wow, no not a one of them would feel comfortable attending the gathering where it is traditional for men to sit back while women do the clean up. No one thought it was a moment for females to bond and would not consider it that way. And well, I'm sure DS and DIL noticed your disappointment which would further make the situation uncomfortable for them. This is something I would leave entirely in DH's hands to sort out with his FOO. It's his family and his issue, I would not step in.
I can't imagine how awkward that is for your DIL, Pooh. Please, please don't take offense but I figured if I give you my opinion it might help a little. In my family, we were taught everyone helps out. It would simply boggle my mind that the men go sit down and relax while the women clean. I don't care who I'm cleaning with and what kind of wine they give me, it is simply not a pleasant task for most people. And by cutting down on the amount of people that can and should help, you (general you) are giving me MORE work to do. Ontop of how I would perceive it to be unfair, I'd rather host my own. And after each episode of this (where there is no taking turns and further making this an unpleasant experience for me) I would start thinking that this is probably not going to change, this is not my family's tradition to change, I'm the only one who seems to have a problem with it so they probably don't care to take me seriously and it's not my family to change.....dang, I'm not looking forward to this holiday with DH's side at all. I would like I said, give the issue back to DH, his family, his issue....and start making alternative plans for that holiday.
And in a lot of families...the men were sitting down when the feast was being prepared! ;)
Yes it was. I asked DH a couple of years ago, if when they went to her Mother's house they did something different. He said no, it was the same. They guys watched television and the ladie's all cleaned up, and she participated there. So I have no idea.
And just for the record, I am laughing. The men in my family are very hard workers and we torture them on Christmas making them carry everything and do most of the work. It has just always been that way and I have never thought any different about it.
No offense taken at all Pam. I can totally see where if you were not raised in that tradition where you might find it sexist.
No doubt that it's sexist and unlike a lot of people that is fine by me. I'm not carrying out the garbage or unstopping the toilet when it's full of yucky after little johnny puts in a entire roll of toilet paper. Not only do I cook better then any man in my family, I can put things away and know that it's been done right. Honestly, I found a brick of sharp cheddar in the pantry one time. Meanwhile the guys do stay busy enough, I usually have my honey-do list finished off before the big day and by time he gets through that he needs a break. And maybe this is the June Cleaver in me, but it thrills me when my one son always looks around and declares that this is the best dinner of his life and he hasn't even loaded up his plate yet. Besides, clean up is not what it use to be, I utilize my dishwasher oh and I put in these really deep over sized sinks, I'm even amazed at what I can get done in short time.
Remember ladies (or guys) - a little vinegar in the dishwasher or sink rinse will have your dishes and glasses sparkling.
Way ahead of you, Laurie! I stopped buying Jet Dry a few years ago and have been using white vinegar in the receptacle ever since. It does a great job! :D
Yes, white vinegar in many kinds of receptacles keeps things "sparkling," or so I've heard. (JK ya, Laurie.) Happy fresh & clean Thanksgiving, everyone!
Thought I would give you an update on what transpired over Thanksgiving and last week. Well DS and DIL never showed, nor called or anything. (Big surprise face). But me and DH had a wonderful time with my parents then went that evening to his Mother's for their Thanksgiving and to see all his family. Good times.
So we were leaving for the cruise in two days, so I got on my FB the day after Thanksgiving. My DS and DIL are both gone from my page. My DS's page is totally gone and she has unfriended me. So I bit the bullet and called my DS. We talked for a few minutes and then I told him I wanted to know what was going on. He said, "What do you mean?" I told him I noticed the FB pages and also his not responding about Thanksgiving. He said that he never received a text from me about Thanksgiving and that they were having issues from some stupid people on FB, so he had killed his page. He said DIL was removing everyone but her Mom and Brother from hers. So I verified with him, "So it has nothing to do with Me or anyone on our side of the family?" He said no, just stupid people. So I told him that I was sorry he had not received my text and that I was afraid of that so I had also emailed DIL with the information and had not heard back from her either. He said that she never told him about the email, so he didn't know what was going on. So I told him it was fine, and then I reinterated to him that I knew how hard holidays were when you had multiple family functions and in the future, please just let us know their plans so we can plan ours too. That I would never be upset with them for not attending, that I totally understood how hard it was to accomodate everyone. He said he would. I also let him know we were not doing Christmas as normal (what I had let DIL know in the email) and that if they would let us know when they were available (weekend before, weekend after, etc.) we would try to schedule something with their MeMaw. Again, he said he would. So we talk for about an hour on other things in his life.
We go on our cruise, come back a week later and quess what? DIL has only eliminated my side of the family (their were about 10 of us on her page). No one else. So instead of getting angry, I sent my son a text. It said, "I am still not sure what is going on, but I want you to know that it has become obvious that you have an issue with our side of the family. Some day, when you are ready to tell what, I would like to hear it. Until then, know that I will always love you. Mom."
Within 3 seconds I get a text back saying, "What do you mean?" I sent back, "Only our side of the family has been eliminated from DILs page. That doesn't match the story you told me a week ago." He sent back, "I swear Mom, that is what she told me she was going to do. I don't know why she didn't. I will ask her." I sent back one last text that said, "No, don't ask her. It is her page and she has a right to do what she wants on it. Just know I love you." He sent back, "I love you too Mom."
So, I can honestly say now that I am at peace with the situation. I called and asked if something was wrong. I let him know that I love him and that whatever they decided to do on their holidays were fine with us, just to let us know. I am hoping to hear from them over the next week, to make some kind of plans with his MeMaw, but if we don't, so be it.
My take: you have been, patient, understanding, fair and kicked to the curb. I admire you deeply. Sending love...
Thanks Luise. My YS is coming in 8 days! So I am very much looking forward to that!
And Pooh, you have a fabulous caring loving and fun husband. Who I might add.. takes you on cruises. DIL will walk around with her panties in a twist until she realizes it's not making her life comfortable. Your son sounds like a great guy, and surly he would have married someone with some great qualities as well.. you just might have to wait awhile longer to see them :)
Pooh, you are a class act. Enjoy your visit with your YS. Here's hoping everything with your other son will get straightened out, but in the meantime you're moving ahead with your life. Good for you!
Thanks Pen! You guys are such a help. I took the suggestions of calling him and I feel better about it. Don't know if he lied to me, or she lied to him, or what....but I can say now that I tried to resolve it. In their court now.
Laurie, he always was a great guy. Great in school, good athelete, never caused me any problems, and in general, a son to be proud of. You may be right. She may have some great qualities....somewhere....... ;D
Quote from: Pooh on December 15, 2010, 06:35:21 AM
I took the suggestions of calling him and I feel better about it. Don't know if he lied to me, or she lied to him, or what....but I can say now that I tried to resolve it. In their court now.
I am not sure why he would lie to you, at least I hope he isn't; as far as his wife goes who knows. Obviously something is going on in his family unit. I'm sorry you and yours are being kicked out. Maybe they will have a change of heart...if not maybe he will come around. I wish you and everyone on this board a very Merry Christmas!
Thank you MLW! Merry Christmas to you too!
My YS just called to tell me me that he was still planning on being here the 22nd, and was laughing about his brother. He said he had talked to his brother last night and that he was complaining about his MIL. Told him that he was tired of being dragged over there every other day and her bossing him around. That she was constantly at the house and dogging him about everything and that DIL wasn't doing anything about it. My YS told him, "stop being a doormat". So I am beginning to think that my first assumption months ago, was probably correct. My family does not pressure them into anything and leaves them alone, so I think he doesn't worry about us getting upset. Not excusing his behavior towards us, but sounds like he has his hands full. Hopefully, he will step up and learn.
Pooh,
My DS has admitted to me a few times that his hands are full and that he's doing the best he can. I also hope that he will step up and learn, the sooner the better.
How did you like your cruise?
I'm still mentally learning Barbie. I was so used to him talking to me about anything growing up, that I think it is just a shock that we don't talk any more. My DH said something last night that stuck with me. He said, "You do realize that you and him discussed what a difficult time he would have with some of her traits and her Mother's interferring ways, before they got married, and he didn't want to hear it or agree with it. All he cared about was how much he loved her. Now that he is in the middle of it, and the issues are surfacing, he can't talk to you about it because he either has to admit you were right, and he was wrong...or that he didn't want to hear it, and now he's having trouble with it. Either way, he probably feels stupid about the problems he is having now and doesn't want to admit them to you. He always respected you and to admit to you now that he is having the very issues that you tried to warn him about, would to be admitting he was wrong and he is afraid of disappointing you. He is trying to deal with them in his own way to show you that he can. I bet one day, when he resolves his issues, he'll be back." I knew I married that man for good reason! Lol.
The cruise was wonderful Barbie, thank you. We both enjoyed it so much, we are already ready to plan another one. I really do know what all the fuss is about now about cruises. I would go again tomorrow!
It's going to take some time, Pooh. And alot of strength on your part. You will never get the answers, for they are locked up deep inside the dil. There would be no need for sites like this if dils/mils spoke to each other about things bothering them.
I am a big believer in supporting and loving those that support and love you back. Your son is on a new journey with her. It sounds to me as if he is just trying his best. Personally, I would NOT text, email or call anymore unless it is to return their call. If he needs to be with his family, nothing will get in the way. Give it some time.
DIL has some issues. Maybe she is this way with everyone? Not to give a simple rsvp means she wont commit. It's very rude to our generation, for we were brought up differently. My 25 year old dd still replies on her own to her invitations AND sends handwritten thank yous (I have lots to learn from her ;)) My son was similar to your dil in his behavior. He feels the world owes HIM, but gives back nothing. Silly games. Don't ask them anymore. Dont include them. If mom wants to know she will have to call. Even then there isn't a guarantee an rsvp will be given. You did say dil removed the entire side of his family from face book? Seems a bit harsh to me. Rude and combative. But you don't need to go on worrying about it. Let her go.
If they show up, they can sit in the LR and watch TV if there just isn't enough food prepared for them. Even young children need to learn consequences to bad behavior. But let MOM tell them she never received a reply to the invite and therefore didn't prepare for them but would have if they would just have called her to let her know. Throw it all back on them. Even if your ds is between a rock and a hard place he's gonna have to wiggle out of it soon, or have NO family on his side to turn to, if need be. People can only take so much.
Good luck to you. Hope it all works out for your family.
Thanks HappyDays. Great advice in there and that is what I have decided to do. I have put it in his court now and I am leaving it at that.
And to answer your question about is DIL like this with everyone? Yes, she is, except her own immediate family. She doesn't have any close friends, and doesn't want him to either. She did boot everyone on my side, so I think it may be a reaction to what is going on with them. I can see if he is putting his foot down about her Mother and things with her family (as he told his brother) where she would retaliate by saying, "Well then I don't want anything to do with yours!" Not that she ever really has, but thus the boot of everyone off of FB. I think now there is more going on between them then we are aware of and that is what is driving much of this.
Thank you so much for the input and advice, and I plan on following it.
Quote from: Pooh on December 16, 2010, 06:08:28 AM
My DH said something last night that stuck with me. He said, "You do realize that you and him discussed what a difficult time he would have with some of her traits and her Mother's interferring ways, before they got married, and he didn't want to hear it or agree with it. All he cared about was how much he loved her. Now that he is in the middle of it, and the issues are surfacing, he can't talk to you about it because he either has to admit you were right, and he was wrong...or that he didn't want to hear it, and now he's having trouble with it. Either way, he probably feels stupid about the problems he is having now and doesn't want to admit them to you. He always respected you and to admit to you now that he is having the very issues that you tried to warn him about, would to be admitting he was wrong and he is afraid of disappointing you. He is trying to deal with them in his own way to show you that he can. I bet one day, when he resolves his issues, he'll be back." I knew I married that man for good reason! Lol.
Hi Pooh.
I just wanted to say that you married a smart man--good for you! I also wanted to share something that happened in my marriage that might shed some light for you or other ladies on the board.
My DH is close to his mom and used to go to her for advice on pretty much every decision he made. I really didn't mind this when we were dating because, frankly, I didn't think it was any of my business (and strangely enough she and I pretty much agree about 99% of the time--so it was never an issue of what I think versus what she thinks--it was usually what she and I think versus what DH thinks LOL!). So, right before our wedding, DH went to his mom about a MAJOR life decision. He didn't discuss this decision with me at all and he basically made the decision with his mom and then came home and told me how it was going to be. Then, he lied about the fact that he had made the decision with his mom, claiming that he had come to this major life decision all on his own. BIG MISTAKE! I felt so betrayed--like my husband to be and his mother were the couple who were building a life together and I was on the outside looking in. Needless to say, I nearly broke up with him a few months before our wedding. That behavior told me that he was not ready to be married and make decisions about his life with his wife (me) rather than his mother.
Well, after some major fighting and therapy, DH came to understand that when you get married, you make decisions with your wife as a team. You may solicit outside opinions (if both of you agree to solicit these opinions), but the final decision on kids, where to live, jobs, lifestyle, etc. is made between the two of you (not the three of you).
So, for about 2 years DH was pretty scared to ask his mom ANYTHING.
Not because I was telling him "you'd better not ask HER, buster!" But, rather, because he didn't quite understand how to make a balance of talking to me about something and then if we both agreed, soliciting advice and then making the final decision with just the two of us (essentially his behavior went from one extreme to the other--asking advice on EVERYTHING to asking advice on NOTHING). Now, his behavior has swung back to a reasonable level of talking to mom, but understanding that WE are the ones who are in this marriage together and we are the ones who make the decisions about our life together.
So, I think that as time moves on, you might find that your DS will feel more comfortable navigating his marriage and his relationship with you as he feels more confident that he is building a strong foundation for his marriage. It is hard on the men sometimes to figure out that balance. Good luck!
Great story MrsKitty and great insight for me. Thank you very much!
Pooh,
I just read this entire thread and my heart is with you. It's tough, but I think you are doing the right thing to back off and give your ds/dil space. When they are ready and willing you will receive the contact you long for (could take a while). Relationships can be complex. Love you!
Hugs, Hope
Thanks guys for all the kind words. Surprising as it may seem....hold on....get your shocked faces on.....wait for it.....they never showed at Christmas or have yet to call. Lol.
And guess what? It's Ok. We talk about having OUR expectations of our relationships, and I truly had no expectations of them showing up or calling.
So I will wait and see what happens.
Good for you, Pooh. I'm glad you're doing OK. Letting go of expectations is the key, but so hard to do. It's like a jarring disconnect in the reptilian part of our brain 'cos we've been conditioned for cause and effect all our lives, in other words if we behave a certain way (inviting DS/DIL for the holidays) we'll get an appropriate response (an RSVP.) I know I need a bit more practice with this, but I'm trying :P
We're all trying, Pooh; failing, falling...getting up and dusting ourselves off..and trying again. And we are winning! Sending love...
Quote from: luise.volta on January 04, 2011, 09:31:51 AM
We're all trying, Pooh; failing, falling...getting up and dusting ourselves off..and trying again.
I think you just described my diet not my relationships
I thought she had ESP and was describing my New Year's Eve. I will tell on myself. My best friend gave me a nice gift bag full of Bath & Body works, because she knows I love their stuff, for Christmas. She bought me several items from the 'relaxation' line. Ooooh it smells so good. It was Black Current Vanilla. One of the things in there was a jar called, "Black Current Vanilla Sugar Scrub". The directions were to use it in the shower for a silky, smooth exfoliating scrub.
I got in the shower, and dipped into it. Ohhhh, it's pure luxury I tell ya'. Very smooth and luscious and smells wonderful. The down side? It turns your shower into an ice skating rink! So as you bend out of the tub, reaching for your bath towel on the counter, your feet slide out from under you sending you sprawling into the bathroom counter. The wooden trim on the counter ever so gently, slices down your forearm leaving two lovely lacerations. As you lay naked, sprawled on your bathroom floor with your head wedged under the lip of your baseboard, your only salvation is that you are home alone, and there was no one to witness your gracefulness. But....you smell heavenly.
Or so I have heard......
I know what you mean Pooh... I took my new bicycle out for a ride after I got over my chest cold.. I wouldn't tell anyone that I was heading out to avoid any embarrassment. Whew the ride went well.. I didn't crash, didn't whip out in anyone's front yard and made it back home. But as I was getting off the bike all resemblance to gracefulness ceased... I caught my toe on the low set cross bar and fell to the side.. I was at a stop so I thought ok I'll just lay over here and maybe no one will notice.. but nooooo I did this on the only friggin hill in my yard and had to roll a few times before stopping like a beached whale. Yes, thank goodness no one was there to witness this or I would have had to try to convince them that this is part of my exercise regiment.
Get all of this stuff done and over before you are in your 80s and break something that has to be screwed back together...(sayeth the soothsayer.) A year ago I ran with my dog (probably not the loveliest of sights) and ended up doing care giving from a wheel chair after having my ankle screwed back in place. Anesthetics, of course, do not come in exotic scents.
Roll and tumble while you can. (Prone is safer and more fun, if I remember correctly.)
Hee hee. I guess we all have the middle name "Grace".
Luise, I have already figured out one thing. When I was younger and fell, I bounced. Now I just kind of "thud".
I'm not even going to tell you about "splat." :o
;D
BTW, I love the Pooh Bear picture!
Thank you! He's my fav.