So I'm having a lovely visit with my son, who complains his wife sees her parents several times a week, and talks to them on the phone every day. So I have lovingly detached, given them space to form their own family unit and he wants to know why we don't call him and see him MORE, like her parents.!!!! So I asked him "would you REALLY feel okay with me calling you all the time, and just showing up at your door. :o He admitted he wouldn't but I still walked out of there feeling like a bad mother because I wasn't making the same effort as his IL's to "be there" for them. I give up.
Darned if you do...darned if you don't stuff. Sending love...
Before you give up...TMB, did you try for a happy medium?
If he doesn't want to talk ALL the time, maybe twice a week? (I'm seriously just tossing numbers out there).
He does want you involved more, but probably not as much as the ILs b/c he doesn't think they should be as involved as much as they are.
Do you think, that in a few days, once your feelings are settled down...and you could call him and say, "I have been thinking about what you said...you and I both agree that talking everyday would be too much, and you and I also agree that talking as little as we do is too little. What would you like to see for our relationship?" There might be a happy medium in there for you and him.
Maybe take it from there?
I'm sorry you're feeling down, but you're not a bad mom.
You mean 'give up' in the way Luise put it, I hope? I vote for a happy medium, too. I'm really glad to hear your DS wants more contact! That's great!
Many of us wait for an opportunity to get a toe in dc' door. It sounds to me like ds has it cracked open & waiting for you...
I reckon he's.missing his own Foo .......I think my DS misses us too ,we never ever see him alone ,not that I'm complaining ,its just he never chats to me when all the family are together.
TMB,
Ok, this wasn't very mature of me -- but when we were in the midst of the heavy in law struggles, I wondered the same thing. Why weren't my parents behaving the same way?
But it was all selfish, I wanted my parents to save me. I wanted them to teach DH a lesson, to see how it was from the other side. I felt like talking with DH and his parents was not getting me anywhere, I wanted action and at that point, I wanted it bad.
*IF* my parents had stepped in, we wouldn't be where we were today though. It's still not great, probably never will be. But DH does realize on his own, without my parents parenting him, that his FOO isn't the only ones who matter in this world. I do believe both he and I would resent if my parents stepped in to fight our battle.
The good news is that your son is getting to his limit too. I wouldn't necessarily give up, I would just stand by in case DS/DIL need a landing spot.
Yeah, We're going to step up the contact a bit, but what I think DS doesn't get is I don't think DIL is going to be happy at all if we do. I just told him we were now his extended family and his first priority was his wife and their family and we understood a young couple only had so many hours in the day, and we were always there for both of them ..basically all the good stuff. The problem is my DIL is very emeshed with her family, so everything has been all about them, every holiday EVERYthing. So we've bowed out, we "understood they had to do what was right for them" no pressure. I really stressed how proud we were of how much they had done and really stressed that we saw him as an independent young man leading his own life.
I ground my teeth down to a nub, but I made the transition. I mean we invited them over, may-be once a month, talked about 3 times a month and made it clear we would love to come to their house, when we were invited. I thought we were being the ideal In-laws. I think LL is right I think DS is tired
of this over contact with his IL 's. I'm just afraid DIL is planting a bug in his ear that her parents are
just there for them because they are so wonderful, and we're not because we don't care enough..
Arrrgh..
TMB it sounds like you are quite right. Keep doing what you're doing, and gently step it up just a little bit. Continue to stress to him how you accept nearly every invitation he extends.
I have an old friend whom every time I call her, commences the conversation by lamenting how long it has been since the last time I called her. Finally, I once responded by sighing, "I didn't realize your cell phone only accept calls, and does not place them."
Sassy
since 2009
Full member
I know how you feel. Because my M was so needy and enmeshed, I have tried very hard to follow my children's lead when it comes to what sort of relationship they want with me. Then, I miss cues I should have picked up, or I don't listen to my own gut, or I simply can't read their minds and I don't step up when I should. With my SD, there is the added complication of her loyalty issues with her M. When she is on good terms with her M, I am the evil SM, but when things are bad with her diagnosable M, I am golden. Right now, she isn't even talking to her M, and is trying to pull me back in, but I don't trust it. In a year, we have gone from her not being able to tolerate talking to me on the phone, to her initiating contact. I am cautious, and will probably remain cautious with her for the rest of my life.
Stepping up the contact is a good plan, but be prepared for fall out. People who are as enmeshed as your DIL is don't even realize how unhealthy their familial relationships are until there is a crisis, like say your DS finally getting tired of it and insisting on change. If they do finally see it and they try to overcome their lifetime of training, their family will put them through pain and grief. I should know, mine sure did. You know what you went through because of your DS's marriage, well her family really hasn't had to change that much. When they do have to change, it will be WWIII and you will be a safe harbor for both of them.
Hi Justus,
I had to clean up your post since a few words violated the Forum Agreement. I know it was mild, but please refrain from using language such as that else someone takes it as a sign they can use something worse, or directly attack someone on here. I do appreciate your cooperation and your thoughtful posts.
Dear Tryingmybest,
I would put a new ground rule down in my next visit with my son if I were you. Don't listen to his complaints about anyone for a minute and cut out the comparison to her parents. Who needs it? Why step up the contact to be hassled? Why put up with his complaining when he admits that he doesn't really want what he's complaining about?
Same old, same old.......you can't win, as Luise says.
I think Pam nailed it. I think my son is getting tired of his wife's family being there and he wants to throw me into the mix to get back at his wife. ::) Not going there.
That sound wise....I hadn't thought out that.
Quote from: tryingmybest on May 01, 2011, 04:11:02 PM
I think Pam nailed it. I think my son is getting tired of his wife's family being there and he wants to throw me into the mix to get back at his wife. ::) Not going there.
Smart :)
It's probably the best move my parents ever made. And it helps when I can say "do you ever see my parents doing that?"
It does sometimes seem like we can't win, no matter what we do. I think that says more about them than it does us. Hang in there justus. Even though it left you feeling badly, try to look at it as a positive that he may be missing you more than you thought.
I did some reading recently that shed some light on the "darned if you do, etc." dept.
The article talked about the fact that when conflict arises if at some point you have some leverage over the other party, they will do anything to get out of the "one down position". The article explained that it was not the parties involved that were critical to the resistance but that the conflict often arises from the other party insisting that you be the "one down" person. That's where the darned if you do, or not comes into play, and the other party is actively trying to put you in the "one down" position so that they can be out of it (if they perceive that they are in it).
I thought this was an interesting way to explain why no matter what you do or try is always wrong, and it's not confined to in law relationships, those dynamics come into play with many types of relationships.
Hey Keys,
I had to edit your post due to language in conflict with the Forum Agreement. No biggie, I just didn't want anyone to read your post and take that as permission to use the more colorful words. Do you know where you found that article? I would like to read it, if possible. It sounds interesting and I think I could use it in my relationships at work. I would love to read it if you have the chance to find it. Thanks!
TMB, my DIL's FOO has been very demanding about some important decisions DS & DIL had to make recently, whereas DH & I didn't have any input other than support for whatever choice they made. DS told me that he & DIL really appreciated how we listened but didn't push them. It's just a small step towards being seen as worthwhile in DIL's eyes, but we'll take it.
Small, inobtrusive text messages every now and then work for my DS...he likes to know we're thinking about him but doesn't always want to engage.
Keys, that article sounds interesting.
Keys,
I would love to see that article too...it sounds very interesting.
Sorry you're having some trouble TMB, but you hang in there. From what you described, you DO sound like the ideal ILs- I think your son is just frustrated. Plus, you know even if you were absolutely perfect, your DIL would find something "wrong" with you if that's just the way she is. Hey, remind him the phone works both ways, too! I'm sure, as a mom, you'd talk to him however often he wanted to call!
TMB,
Sounds to me like your previous stepping back approach has been working. DS seems to want a more engagement and you
are going to step up the contact a little. One question you might ask him if you didn't already is what he WOULD like. He said
he wouldn't want you and dh enmeshed in his life...but what would work? To me it sounds like progress, but Keys Girl and others could be right.
Thanks ladies! Speaking of articles wow I had a hard time keeping this one to my-self !
http://yahoo.match.com/y/article.aspx?articleid=1432&TrackingID=526103&BannerID=747175
I am puzzled if your son wants more contact with you why doesn't he initiate it?
We often clutter things up with the "whys" of logic when it isn't logic-based. The "darned if you do and darned if you don't", is, to me, an action based extension of the "yahbut rabbit." It's a blocking maneuver.
Quote from: Holly on May 01, 2011, 07:16:05 PM
Hey Keys,
I had to edit your post due to language in conflict with the Forum Agreement. No biggie, I just didn't want anyone to read your post and take that as permission to use the more colorful words. Do you know where you found that article? I would like to read it, if possible. It sounds interesting and I think I could use it in my relationships at work. I would love to read it if you have the chance to find it. Thanks!
Holly, I'll hve to re-read the Forum Agreement so that I'm "on side".
The article came out of the "In Sheep's Clothing" book about understanding and dealing with manipulative people written by George Simon. I pick it up and flip through it quite often and read whatever chapter is hand. I think it's an outstanding book, I would keep this one along and discard everything else if it came to that.
That is the second time I've heard that book referenced (and I think the other time wasn't even on WWU)...I think I'll have to take a peak! THanks!
Quote from: tryingmybest on May 02, 2011, 07:55:08 AM
Thanks ladies! Speaking of articles wow I had a hard time keeping this one to my-self !
http://yahoo.match.com/y/article.aspx?articleid=1432&TrackingID=526103&BannerID=747175
I think this was written about my SIL! LOL
Quote from: cd1029 on May 02, 2011, 09:05:23 AM
I am puzzled if your son wants more contact with you why doesn't he initiate it?
That's not always the easiest thing to do. Know the phrase "If momma ain't happy, ain't noboldy happy." Well, DIL is the wife which makes her the "momma." He might not be happy with the situation, but he will have to deal with the consequences of a cranky wife, maybe some "withholding" lol, and the like if he goes against her wishes. TMB's DIL is very controling, she is most likely the "cranky momma" when she doesn't get her way. My SIL is this way..... It is soooo horribly sad. :'(
I dunno, I think that term can apply to everyone, especially all living in a household. Sometimes peoples happiness is just asking to be treated respectfully, others it is to be treated like Queen.
I tell DH all the time "happy wife, happy life." It's a circle, you make me happy, I make you happy etc. The happier I am, the happier he will be.
I'm not talking about anything with severe dysfunction but I think on a normal level, it just makes sense to keep your bread buttered.
That article was great. I know a few people who need to read that.
Yeah and in the final analysis, everyone has to make their choices. my son's relationship with his wife is his to deal with, I didn?'t marry the woman. I just keep stressing that relationships need compromise and communication. My DIL is really used to calling the shots and he's going to have to figure out how much of that he can take. Anon if your SIL is like that keep the lines of communication open to your brother, he's going to need some place to turn. everyone has their limit ???
My old girlfriend behaved just like that, TMB. It wasn't just with her boyfriends, it was with everyone. Funny thing is, I feel like we all would have benefitted had someone changed HER, not the other way around.
one of the few benefits of being well over 50 is learning you can't change anyone but yourself. I know my DIL is trying and in all honesty she's not wrong in everything. I wish she'd shape her father in law up the same way she has my son. he cleans, cooks, shops, and does home repair...never lifted a finger at home....gotta give her some credit. ;)
Quote from: tryingmybest on May 02, 2011, 02:05:19 PM
Anon if your SIL is like that keep the lines of communication open to your brother, he's going to need some place to turn. everyone has their limit ???
They have now cut us off. :-( But I am hoping that it is only temporary. :'(
And it is really too bad we can't change other people. :-\
I'm sorry, ADil. I hope he comes around...I hope all of this is temporary, I know you love him.
Oh, what I wouldn't do to be able to change a few people...if only...lol.
It really is too bad people aren't computers that can be reprogrammed.... Oh, boy would I have fun! LOL
We can probably do it someday. Heck, I have a few artificial intelligence toys at home. I can train them to grow up scared, angry, happy. I bet we can do it in another 20 years LOL
I meant to say we could do it to humans in another 20 years lol.
I'd need to be rebooted every other day. Maybe it's my "motherboard," LOL.
LOL, I'd need a whole new chip.