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It might be a family culture thing, whereas saying thank you might be very important in your family but it wasn't in hers.  And just because she isn't saying it doesn't mean she isn't grateful.  Some people have trouble saying their feelings and maybe showing gratitude is uncomfortable for her.  You seem to think she is sweet, so it doesn't seem like she would be ungrateful.  But if it's a big deal to you, maybe you should just come right out and ask her about it.  You could  ask her if she liked the gift or something.

Quote from: Grieving on March 23, 2013, 08:09:41 AM
A friend who is going through a similar experience with her DIL mentioned yesterday that she thinks our DILs act like they do because we were such good parents--they feel intimidated that they won't measure up. Now, she is a more positive person than I, but it gave me pause to think. I do know when trying to discuss the problem with my son, he has told me that DIL is intimidated by me, and was working on it. He also said he felt like we had been good parents. I have no idea why she should feel that way, and quite frankly,at this point, I don't really care.

However, I thought I would share the idea. I know many embrace the idea of not making sense of senseless, etc. but I have not reached that point. While I understand the concept, I still struggle with the WHY.

As a DIL, I can relate that I wanted to measure up and felt intimidated.  It's by nature a difficult relationship and believe me it is painful from this side too.  As a DIL I was much more sensitive to my MIL than anyone else.  I'm a MIL too, and I find myself bristling at little things my DIL does that aren't great.  As a mother we want what is best for our kids so it's easy to judge the negatives more harshly than we do with others.  So here you have a DIL who wants to measure up and a MIL who is naturally going to judge the DIL more harshly.  I suppose we both need to put each other in each other's shoes and have a little understanding.  Be patient with your DIL if you can.

MollyM,
I am so sorry.  That has to be heartbreaking for you.   I don't have any advice for you.  I just wanted to say I wish it was different and hope it will be some day.

Thank you MollyM.  It sounds like your MIL was pretty judgemental.  I think that's a common gripe for many DILs and certainly one of mine. Sometimes I wish my MIL would have been more upfront about her feelings.   My MIL isn't such an evil person really, but she was disappointed in me and it she didn't like the way I wore my hair or what I was wearing, she would try to overcompensate by looking for something to compliment me on, but then it would turn into a backhanded compliment that revealed what she was really thinking.  Like, oh your hair looks so pretty... but I like it better when it has a little more curl.   Sounds like both of our MILs felt they had better taste than we did and wanted us to please their tastes.
It sounds like you couldn't have been more different from one another.  I think a common problem MILs make is expecting their sons to marry someone like them.  It is sad that they were actually part of your reason you left your husband.  My husband hasn't stood up to his parents either until very recently, but how can I judge him too harshly for that when I didn't stand up to them myself.  I am standing up for myself and I think everyone knows that things are not going to be as they were.  And my husband is backing me up.  I don't want to be in a war with them, but there are just a few things that aren't ok with me any more.  And I have to admit that I have been overly sensitive to my MIL.  There are many things my girlfriends can say to me that I would take offense to if my MIL said them. My MIL actually seems like she cares enough to try to make some changes in order to mend our relationship so we'll see.  I am not ready just yet but it could happen.  And if nothing else, I feel free from worrying about her opinion any more.  I feel like if she doesn't like me, she has the choice not associate with me.  I haven't found that I have missed her, so why wouldn't I be ok with that.  What if I just went and was myself and put no power in her opinions.  How could she hurt me then.  And who knows thing could go well.  Someone told me that you teach people how to treat you.  If I teach my MIL that I am who I am and her opinion doesn't matter to me near as much as my opinion of myself, maybe she will treat me differently.  Maybe she won't try so hard to impose her opinion on me.

I think would be natural to feel jealous under these circumstances.  What your daughter thinks of you is not as important as how you feel about yourself.  Your worth is not about how much money you make or whether you are/were a stay at home mom or a career woman.  It sounds like you were/are a devoted mother and I can't think of any more valuable job than that.  Your daughter may not feel like she wants to live her life the way you have and that's ok but don't let anyone cause you to feel like you are weak or that what you are or what you do is any less valuable than anyone else. 
In time your daughter will appreciate what you have offered her as a mother, even if she doesn't now. 
I want to share something personal with you.  When I first met my MIL I noticed she had some qualities that my own mother didn't and I admired her for that.  My Mom also was a stay at home mom who served my Dad and I viewed her as weak in a way too.  My MIL had a master's degree and a career and "seemed" independent to me and I admired her for that.  However as time went on I realized that my own mother was very strong emotionally and loved me like my MIL would never love me.  I realized my MIL was very weak emotionally and although she tried or pretended to love me, doesn't know how.  I feel really bad when I think about how I didn't respect my Mom like she deserved when I was that age and I feel really stupid for falling for my MIL's insincerity. 

I believe it is considered abuse if there are marks left on the child's body.  If you see marks and report it and caseworker sees marks then I believe it's a founded report.  I think the idea about giving heads up to the child's doctor is a good idea. 
You are in a tough situation and I certainly don't know what I would do. 

I am sorry for what you are going through.  You must be very worried about your son.  I think many adult children go through difficulties and often blame problems on the way they were raised.  Many of us have made mistakes with our children that we regret but we did the best we could with what we had.  I remember in my early thirties I started going to therapy and in the process came to terms with anger I had toward my mother.  When I talked to her about it, her response helped me.  She admitted that she made mistakes and acknowledged what they were and I could see the hurt and guilt on her face.  That was all it took for me to realize that dwelling on those things wasn't going to help and it was up to me to deal with my problems as an adult. She was obviously painfully aware of the mistakes she made.  Sometimes adult children just want acknowledgement of how they were hurt as children.  Similarly my daughter has expressed anger toward me and my husband about things we did that hurt her as a child and has also needed that acknowledgement.  It's not that I think we are to blame for all of our children's problems or that we should take the blame, however. 

Wow!  That's a really difficult situation and I'm sorry you have to deal with that.  It's true like Penn says the parents have the last word about child-rearing right or wrong, but she is your granddaughter and you care about her well-being.  Hitting with a ruler sounds like abuse to me too for a child of any age, but especially a baby not even a year old.  I don't blame you for your concern and for saying no you won't do that. I would be the same way. Does the ruler leave marks?  It must be so hard to bite your tongue about that, or at least it would be for me.  I wish I had some answers for you.  I can see why you feel hurt and angry and want some space.  On the other hand, if it were me, I think I'd try to find a way to still be in their lives for your granddaughter's sake.  She could benefit from a relationship with you. 
I have learned to ask myself before I act, "what is it I want to accomplish?"   I understand you don't like your DIL and the way she disciplines your granddaughter.  But if you alienate your son and DIL, and are out of the picture, then you won't be there to love and support your granddaughter, which it seems she might need.  If it were me, I think I would want to be in the picture with my grandchild no matter what, in case the abuse gets worse and needs to be reported or something.  I think your son is to blame too, just for going along with it. 

Thanks Herbalescapes,   It is easier said than done to change our family dynamic after all these years and I agree that it's better to focus on what we can do now, looking at the past to learn what not to do.   I have been talking to a counselor and we do have a game plan that I wrote about earlier in this thread.  The food thing won't be a problem when we visit them.  They now live across the country and unless they visit us, it won't be an issue.  While visiting them on his own in December, my husband told them that under the circumstance he thought it would be best that if I did decide to join him for future visits, we would not stay with them.  Then they asked about what if they came and visited us.  Without any prompting from me he told them that under the circumstances, he thought it was best if we were not all under the same roof at this time.
Part of their problem is that they don't like to acknowledge there is a problem. 
As far as the food, if they do visit, I don't know if I can bend on that. I feel like that has been a boundary that I have allowed to be stomped on for too many years.   Like I said before I will say upfront something like: "I am happy to let you provide food and serve me when I visit you.  Please show me the same consideration and allow me to provide the food and serve you when you are my guests.  PLEASE DON'T BRING FOOD."  If they bring food anyway, I will confront them.  "I asked you not to bring food and explained why I feel that way. It hurts that you did not respect my feelings about this."   
I have not spoken with them or seen them for 1 1/2 years since they moved away and they know I have just about had it, so unless they are pushier than I thought, I don't think they will push me on this. 
I may deserve a lot of credit for maintaining family relationships, but I am not so concerned about this now that they have moved and my children are grown.  And I am definately not interested in maintaining the status quo with them or maintaining a relationship with them as it was before.  It might have been great for them because I never rocked the boat, but it wasn't good for me.    I feel like I owe them another chance, but I won't be willing to tolerate what I have tolerated before. 

I am so sorry about your husband's cancer and I hope he is dong ok.   And I am so sorry about the strained relationship with your daughter.  It's strange that she won't talk about what is bothering her.  It makes me wonder if it's more about what's going on with her personally than an actual problem with you. Sometimes when people are stressed they lash out at or blame people who have nothing to do with the problem.   I wish she would talk to you about whatever is bothering her. 

Herbalescapes,
I am pretty sure the food bringing is about wanting to feel important or needed.  That is understandable, but once I expressed that it wasn't ok they should have respected that.  I was fine with them inviting us over and providing the food in their own home.  I am a MIL too, and in my opinion my children's homes and lives are theirs and we are guests in it.  We need to respect their views on child rearing. We need to respect their homes and we don't get to tell them how they should do things.  If they invite us to dinner and tell they've got it covered and don't want us to bring anything, we respect that.  My kids and their families have feelings too.  Maybe they want to feel important and why would I disregard their wishes just so I can feel important.  And I know that if I acted the way my inlaws have acted, my company may no longer be wanted. 
It is hard to interpret other people's intentions and motivations, but MIL's excessive complimenting of me when she doesn't do that to her own sons, the backhanded compliments, and then blurting out the insults make it all come across as very insincere.  The blurted out insults are not sarcasm and I can usually tell it was something she was thinking but didn't want to say. She was definately not expressing affection.   We all think bad things about people at times and we try to be nice and not say those hurtful things we are thinking, but sometimes we blurt them out.  It's understandable and forgivable but it makes the incessant complimenting come across as very insincere. 
My husband had his head stuck in the sand all these years and avoided addressing the problem, and I did resent him for it.  I have done the same thing  and I resent myself for it.  The big difference is that he understands he has done this.  I am disappointed in both of us.  BUT now we are both stepping up and trying to deal with the issues instead of enduring them like we did before.  I will have to think about this.  I really don't think I am transferring my resentment of him onto my inlaws.  I think that when someone admits to a portion of the blame and tries to remedy the situation, it dissolves a lot of resentment.  My husband has done that, but my inlaws haven't really done that. 

I'm so sorry Pooh that your DIL won't let your son visit you.  I can't imagine how painful that would be if one of my kids chose not to continue a relatioinship with me. 

I like what Pooh said:  "I also think the more I dread something ahead of time and imagine all the different things that could go wrong, the more apt I am to find fault with the itty bitty tiny things quickly.  It's almost like since I'm waiting for all the bad to happen, the smallest thing makes me go "See, I knew it!" "


I have done this a lot with my inlaws and this behavior on my part has really contributed to the escalating of my angry feelings toward them.

Have you talked to your MIL about the facebook postings?   In my opinion if you ask someone not to post pictures of you or your children on facebook, those wishes should be respected.  I put pictures of my grandkids on facebook, as do my daughter and daughter-in-law and we are all ok with it.  But my BIL specifically asked not to have pictures of him or his family, so I wouldn't dream of doing that to him.  And my daughter and DIL like me to run the pictures of them personally by them before posting on facebook in case they are unflattering.  I think it's just important for people to communicate and respect each other's wishes about that.  I don't think it's an unreasonable request to ask someone not to post pictures of your family if you are not comfortable with it. 
You are very generous to allow your husband to invite his MIL on your vacation.  I hope she is not the type to control everything.  If so it might be a good idea for you and your husband to make plans daily for things you and your kids want to do and let MIL know what they are ahead of time, so that she doesn't try to decide what you are doing.
Good luck and I hope it's a wonderful trip for everyone!

Penn, Good luck with your upcoming visit with SM and DF.  I would be interested to hear how it goes and how you handle people who try to control things.  It seems like control is often at the root of these family problems.  Stick to your boundaries. 

No boundaries. It sounds like your inlaw situation is worse than mine an I am sorry.  I am pretty sure my inlaws would not ask my husband to chose between me and them, but if they did I know that he would chose me. It's awful that your FIL said that to him and awful that your husband kept that from you.
I don't feel threatened by him visiting them on his own.  I think they do enjoy it "like the old days" but I am ok with that as long as they don't expect me to be there every time.  My husband enjoys being with his parents in small intervals and I think it is more relaxing for him without me there because then he is not worrying about how I am feeling.  My mother and my husband had a somewhat strained relationship and we all just accepted that as it was.  But I loved my mother very much and although I would defend my husband to her I didn't force them to spend a lot of time together and they never tried to force a relationship and it worked.  Now that my mom is gone I am so grateful I never had to choose.  I would never make my husband chose either, especially since they are also getting up there in years.  And since all of my feelings have come out, he has really stepped up and defended me to his parents.  It sounds like he is becoming more assertive with them himself and expressed his own anger toward them about things.   In spite of that they all still want to be a family.