WiseWomenUnite.com

Hi everyone, this is my first time writing and I am very distraught over my daughters wedding in 2 weeks. I will begin by saying that my daughter and I were always very close. I have 4 children with my ex husband. My husband and I were married for 31 years and have been divorced for 1 year. My daughter became engaged in Oct. 2010 and is to be married Nov. 5Th 2011. Everything was fine until Nov. 2010 when the four adult children decided to spend Thanksgiving with their dad. I was hurt as I have no family except my mother. From that I have not seen my 32 year old daughter nor the engaged 28 year daughter in the past year except a few times when my 79 year old mother has been hospitalized. They have stayed close with their father and will not tell me the reason for them not wanting me in their life. I did not see them for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, Mothers Day nor birthdays.
In February 2011, my daughters in laws to be held an engagement party to which I was not invited too. My ex took his gf of 4 months. I found out 1 week ago that he married this woman after knowing her for less than a year and  my daughters took pictures and put them on facebook smiling with their new stepmom. My daughter had a bridal shower in August to which I was not invited. Now the wedding is two weeks away and she has invited my cousins and their children, my mother and her friend but not me. Some family members are going and some are not.
My two sons and I have a good relationship and they are both in the wedding. I do not put them in the middle and ask questions. No one is standing up for me and finding out what the problem with me is. All I can think about is that I will not be there to put her veil on, to watch her walk down the aisle , to say her vows and have her first dance. Her new stepmom will. She will be in the front pew and light the mother candle. She will be announced as stepmother of the bride. She did not raise her and does not even know her that well. I love my daughter but she has hurt me so badly that I cry everyday. I go for therapy once a week but it does not fix a broken heart. Family counseling has been offered but my daughter refused. I do not know what to do. I am so broken hearted.

Hello Nan ....and Welcome ,

this is becoming a familiar story on this forum , and I am so sorry that you are hurting so bad .
I can only think you had a major argument after that thanksgiving meal , and haven't found a way to
heal the rift . As you were so close in the past it's so sad this has come between you and a year
is a long time without fixing the problem .
There are a few ladies here that are also undergoing the same problem and can empathise with
you and perhaps offer some consolation . Keep posting Nan , we are with you .

Hellow Nan

I know it is terrible to be in your position.  I cannot imagine that happening to me.  Not being able to have the place I have earned in my daughter's wedding is more than rude.  Not knowing why is even worse.   I am not in your position, but do think that you should confront her because she is your daughter and ask her why is she doing this to you.  You deserve at least answers.   

Probably it is related to something that your ex said about you. 

Dear Nan... as Lancaster Lady said...many wise ladies will relate to your story and will give you good advice.  I only can tell you that you are not alone in this.  We are all here for you.  And believe me, I am feeling your pain.... just hold on .... there has to be an explanation for this and you will know soon.  Demand answers.

I really wish I could help you more.

All the love for you.

I am so sorry for your pain and suffering.  I hope in two weeks, the acuteness passes, and then perhaps you and DDs may begin to approach each other with everyone feeling less pressure. 

Since you and DD were close, and you can identify the time when things changed, Thanksgiving 2010, that's where I'd look.  I know you were hurt when DD's went to their father's that year.  I don't know if you said anything to them about your pain.  I don't know if they felt you were trying to make them responsible for your feelings?  If so, I am wondering maybe they felt manipulated or like they were being guilted for spending time with their dad.  I agree it would be so helpful if they could speak up so you could work on healing that.

I send you strenngth to get through the next two weeks.  Plan something special for yourself during that time.  Keep busy to distract you from thinking about it too much.

Heartfelt compassion for you, Nan.  You are not alone.  A bomb has blown up in your face, and you feel like pieces of your life are scattered all over the place.  You really second guess everything right now, I suspect.  Frantically trying to access mental files to scan back over years and years looking for answers.  This seemingly callous de-sensitization of lots of young adults seems to be getting all too prevalent.  I've thought about it a lot.  I also have one DS who cut me out of his life a year ago.  I have tried to ponder about this, one idea  I have is that it mostly seems to be 20-30 yr olds, and I wonder if that signals most of us are the baby boomers and lots of things turned upside down in the 60's, parental disdain really took on a life of its own.  And we took in all this, but in fact we were not able to assimilate that into our own selves, we were still locked into believing in parental authority, respect, family loyalty, honor, etc.  But I wonder sometimes if we still felt the influence from society so strongly, that we communicated this sense of entitlement and preference to our children, and they became less attached to us than generations before, hence able to 'cut us off' without deep remorse and guilt.  I know that isn't the only factor, divorce has also played a big role.  But other previous generations weren't raised in hothouses, families have always had alcoholism, poverty, craziness.    I'm sorry for that rambling, it may not have helped anyone else but I needed to say it.

Dear heart, something concrete may have transpired, i.e. ex told some family secret but I don't actually think so.  I think it may have been an emotional manipulation of DF setting himself up as the White Prince now.  I admire your judgement in not doing what we all want to do, probe for information.  In time, you are going to hear the truth but in the mean time, you have an opportunity for some lavish personal growth by reading and writing here, and it will get less and less urgent to have this unraveled.  Take courage, all is not lost.  This is a bump in the road but you can keep going forward and come out on top.

I think if I had a daughter who had cut me off and was stonewalling me, I wouldn't want to be a part of her wedding. 

If she is treating you this way for months before the wedding,  wouldn't it uncomfortable to help with the veil, light the candle, etc.?  I understand the dream of the ideal daughter's wedding, but I don't think this would be that.   If you did go to the wedding, wouldn't it be really awkward? 

I did go to my son's wedding but didn't really enjoy the day because of some big differences we had.  I do understand mourning the loss of what could have been.

Foster your relationship with your sons.  Give to them the part of you that your daughter doesn't want.

Welcome Nan :)

Please read the Forum Agreement and WWU History in the category Open Me First, we ask all new members to do so not b/c there is anything wrong with your post.

I agree with Sassy, maybe explore the time around Thanksgiving to see what might have happened for this change to occur. 

Glad you found us

My own DD will get married in 11 days. I haven't spoken to her in 3 weeks after being uninvited to her wedding. I know how much you are hurting. I am unable to support you more at this time, but when I get a grip (bad day for me) I will write again.
In my thoughts

Welcome, NJJ. I'm so sorry you're going through this pain right now. Shunning is awful. No one deserves that treatment. Please nurture yourself right now, take one little step toward doing something for yourself. (((hugs)))

Hi Nan, I'm new too, but wanted to add my support for you and your heartache.  It really does seem like this is the "new" way to act to your parents.  Like it's a sick game to see how much cruelty some of us parents can handle before we crack.  I'm amazed that there are web sites galore on this subject and also books on estrangements from adult children.  No one has all of the right answers as to why and it gives them even more power to withold the info from us that we have a right to know.  I have been going thru this kind of stuff from my oldest(33)from my first marriage.  My daughter (21)who is ready to give birth is from my second marriage which is good, so I can't even blame this one on a divorce.  My husband and I are clueless as to why she does this.  I really feel for you, and give you much credit for "not" probing.  Makes you want to kidnap them, where they have no choice but to answer you and tell you why.  But we can't do those things or police will be called.  So, I don't even think demanding will get you anywhere, you could try though since you haven't asked them yet.  God Bless

COLEEN - Welcome, dear friend.  I send loving thoughts to you, and wish I could also stretch my arms far enough to span the miles and wrap around you.  I did not know that estrangement was anything but an isolated topic.  Thank you for enlightening me, it was what I was feeling in my own intuitive thoughts, that this is a bigger issue than I ever thought.  I am so sorry for your pain, I do hope to get to know you much better as we keep writing and healing here together.

Dear, precious Bdwell!   I am sorry this is a down day for you!  Your presence here is such an uplift, I really mean that.  Every time I see one of your posts I read it, you have such a sparkle and there's just a sweet energy in your messages.  I send to you love also and my own shoulder to cry on.  Tomorrow will be a better day.  write and let us know how you are.

I am so sorry for all your pain Nan. Have you called her?? Why not invite her to a nice lunch and see if she will talk to you, maybe even give an explanation. Tell her how much you hurt and want to be there with her. If she refuses, there is not much you can do (aside from crashing the wedding). At least you will have some peace knowing you really tried to make things right between the two of you.

Hugs, Honey....we r here for you

I'm wondering how you expressed your hurt at Thanksgiving.   Is there anything that you said that might have hurt your daughter and caused her to pull away from you?   

I mean, if you had just graciously wished all your kids a Happy T'giving when they said they would be with Dad, would you have an invite to the wedding?

I'm so sorry you are going through this. It does seem to be an epidemic with our generation of adult children.

I read several replies and there were some good suggestions. Maybe inviting her to lunch or drop a card in the mail -letting her know how much you love her and would like to be at her wedding. If she doesn't respond or doesn't change her mind - you tried. My heart does go out to you just knowing you might miss out on this important event but she is in the driver's seat  as unfair as it is.

If she doesn't come around, I might would order flowers on the day of her wedding and send a sappy card - killing her with kindness.

I'm praying it will work out for you - as long as you have two weeks - there is hope that you will get it worked out- at least well enough to attend the wedding.

Hello everyone and thank you so much for all of your responses. As for Thanksgiving 2010, the children called the shots and I cried. My D called my mom last night and is supposed to visit her on Sunday. I am not sure if I gave details last night but a brief synapsis is as follows: my 18 year old moved with me last year and moved out when I found he was dealing drugs. I begged for help to no avail. His father stated he did not know yet when he was told, he did nothing. My two sons have an on and off again relationship with me and at this time it was on and my older son informed me of everything. My oldest son has a fatal lung disease Cystic Fibrosis and is 26 years old. My ex got married a month ago, never told me and left my sick 26 year old to live with his 19 year old brother. Over the summer my mother became very ill and is seeing a kidney specialist at University of Penn tomorrow. She needs a hip replacement and is scheduled for surgery on the 27th. Chances are very good that she may not make it. I have no support and moved in a month ago, the same time my ex remarried a woman he has not known for a year yet. I moved 30 minutes away and so did he in different directions. The only good thing that came of this is I see my sons more.
I do not know if my daughter will see me on Sunday or ask my mom to have me leave. I do feel by everyone catering to her is showing her that it is okay if she does this to me. My mom has tried to talk to her but is so weak now that she cannot. People who know my mom say my daughters behavior is killing her. I appreciate all of your kind thoughts and my thoughts are with all of you going through similar situations. It is draining.

I think if I had a daughter like that, I wouldn't want to go to the wedding.    I think the wedding you want to go to is for a daughter who doesn't exist.

I understand!  I would love to have a close and loving relationship with my DIL, GB and DS with regular visits and lots of love and affection all round but I see now that it's not gonna happen with the personnel involved.  I hope you'll be able to realize that this daughter isn't worth dying a little each day.

Hugs for you nanjo.  You have so much going on right now.  One at a time, each thing you mention has the potential for heartbreak.  All at once, it seems too much for one girl to bear.  But you are, and you're doing it with grace.  One gesture at a time.  Your mother is living such a blessed to have you and your love in her life.

Maybe I am a delusional optimist, but I have hope for this Sunday.  If you are around when DD comes to see your mom,  (not advising either way, but if you are there) me and everyone reading this is sending you love and energy to face it calmly, quietly and with total dignity.  Listen to DD.  Enjoy keeping your compusure.  Listen listen listen.  Tell her you miss her, and tell her you're so happy for her marriage, that she found love.    Since I think perhaps some sadness wires may have gotten crossed into blame wires in the past, I think a smart approach to optimize the liklihood of postive results would be try to keep the focus on her blessings and the good going on in her life right now.   Look for, find and tap into your happiness for her, and use that as the base for your thoughts and communication for her Sunday.    Let your face show your pride for her and the peace you have in her settling down with the right guy.   This could be an opportunity to show her you want to create a positive rapport.  I pray she can see your happiness for her would be such an addition to her wedding day. 

Even if you both wanted to, there's not enough time to discuss every past hurt before her wedding.  Plus, it's a time in her life where she wants to embrace joy, to be able to look back on the time as happy.   Weddings also bring an ache for family love. This is why I am a bit optimistic for Sunday.   Forget her father, forget her sister and brothers, even.  Make it about DD and her joy. 

I would suggest as a new boundary that could probably prevent some trouble going forward, don't talk about your ex or his wife (sorry about that stinger) to DD at all.   Comments about their dad is off limits from now on.  Especially this Sunday. One of DD's concerns may be how you would feel, or even act, seeing your ex's new wife there.   You can distract yourself by focusing on DD's experience and your mother, other guests, enough to be able to say to DD: They'll be like any other guests.

Makes me feel better not to look at facebook.  Less news is good news in my book.

If DD says or seems she wants an apology from Thanksgiving, perhaps consider giving one.  People are funny.  Especially adult children in their 20's.   They want to feel independent, like they're free to make their own choices. If they think they're expected to do something, they want to do the opposite. Next time DD or DS mention they're planning on spending her holiday a certain way, you'll tell her have a good holiday.  From now on, you are always going to make extra special plans for yourself on holidays, that no one can take away from you. Large or small or with charity or friends or work for double time to spend on something fun...you will have plans you've made.

If Sunday doesn't happen, if DD doesn't bring it up, or you don't see her, and for whatever reason you  still don't go to the wedding, then perhaps that is a blessing in disguise.   You are still tender in so many spots, because so much is going on at once.  Something like an ex remarrying can be taken in stride.  But when you're already feeling vulnerable and a bit helpless, it will hurt even more.   If you going to the wedding is not meant to be, see it as being for an unseen reason, such as to protect you from something else that day.   Focus on you and bringing the smallest the things you want for yourself and your life into your reality.  Whether it's a long walk or a macrobiotic cooking lesson.

Lots of love and energy for you, whatever way the path turns.

Oh Sassy what a great message!   People would have to pay big $$$ to get a shrink to give that much really USEFUL information!   we are lucky sons of biscuits here on WW!!!

Sassy...I don't really know you but that post....I love it. All upbeat and so darn wise. That must be why you are a "wise woman"

Nanjojan hold on to that optimism and we know we are all praying for you and your daughter.

Hi Nan, my heart goes out to you.

If I had a daughter like that, I would buy her a one way ticket to some place far, far away, and bake her a pan of brownies with a big slab of Ex-Lax in them, so she would have to run for that teeny tiny airplane bathroom every five minutes.

Your post says "The children called the shots and I cried"......they will keep doing that until you prevent them from doing so, that's when your crying will stop.

I agree with you, if other's are catering to her, they are just reinforcing her cruel and malicious behavior which I think has probably been inspired by your ex.  I think it's all about power and perhaps revenge (for divorcing your ex), who has the power to hurt you? and make themselves feel better because they can, in the process? the people who know you best.  It's nastier than the Gestapo, they tortured strangers.

My son is married now, I guess, we aren't in touch, I don't look at the bride's Facebook page, (ever), I'm not in the photos, it's been an incredibly difficult year, but I survived and now I'm thriving and the odds of my son ever being welcome in my home before I leave the planet are in low, low single digits at best........same with the future rug rats, he'll probably try to use them as a further type of emotional blackmail.   I could never have imagined feeling that way about him 2 years ago, but sometimes things don't turn out the way you expect.  It's hard.

I think you need to take very good care of yourself, find a spot, a river, canyon, some place where you can find some solace.  Nature has an incredibly healing force and if you can find some people close by who can give you a shoulder to cry on, even better.  I'm sending you mine via cyberspace.

I just want to let everyone know that your responses have helped me more than any friend or family member. Maybe it is because they are trying to stay on my daughters good side. I appreciate all of the posts, they are optimistic, truthful and honest. I am so shocked that so many have gone through and are going through similar situations. I thought I was alone. My mother is facing high risk surgery one week from today and I just cannot believe that my d is aware of this and continues to behave in this manner. I spoke with my sons tonight and they went for their tuxes tonight. They will be so handsome and I will not be there to see them. I didn't cry today...so that is a good thing! Thank you all so  much and my thoughts are with everyone.

Dear Nan..>

You are so strong.  Yes, your sons will look so handsome.   We will be there for you on that day.   

Love you Nan

Its ok for you to cry, Nan, even howl if you need to.  I would print out Sassy's post if I were you and remember you are not in a loose loose.  If circumstances do not place you in your rightful place that that wedding, then you are being protected and sheltered from harm.  You can get through this. 

Thinking of you, Nan. Head held high, plans for a nurturing day in place, WWU in your pocket...(((hugs)))

I remember my counselor back in the day suggesting beating the heck out of a pillow with a tennis racket while yelling at full voice. It was supposed to unblock the hidden anger that was masquerading as sadness so we could feel our sorrow and rage and get on with life. I am going to find that old racket! Hey, maybe that's what "making a racket" really means?

Well my daughter showed today with her fiance. In the first part of the visit it was awkward and just small talk. After an hour I asked if she wanted to look at some dishes and it eased the tension. The 3 of us along with my ailing mother looked through boxes of antique dishes. After they took what they wanted, I gave her a box that was filled with small trinkets from my heart for her wedding day along with two gifts that are family heirlooms. She appeared to be pleased. Things were going extemely well until......it was time for them to leave. My daughter came over to me and hugged me and as we stood there hugging I told her I loved her and she said she loved me too. I began crying and said to her, I do not know what I have done but I am sorry. She replied, just get help. I stepped back and asked what she said and she told me that she is sure that I have borderline personality disorder and this is why she is not inviting me to the wedding.
Last year at this time, 4 months post divorce, as I stated problems ensued over Thanksgiving. Hurtful things were said by my children and myself. It appears that because I cried and got upset that my daughter has held on to these things and is confident that I am suffering from this disorder. I have been in therapy for a year due to my depression over my childrens behavior. No one else is. My daughter refused to go with me. She said several other things and left in huff, stating that people were not coming to her wedding because of me. I asked her how did she think her disabled grandmother was going to attend a wedding 2 hours away if I did not take her. No reply. She even showed my mother and I pictures of her in her wedding attire, centerpieces and wedding booklet. I thought for sure that after this , she was going to ask me to attend. Instead the visit ended with her telling me that she would never regret not having me there. After all it is her day and she has the right to be selfish. I cannot believe this is the little girl who was so loving and giving. She also told me that her father and his wife was going to be there so she did not want me there.
She did tell me that I was a good mother but feels I am unstable to attend her wedding. I did ask if I had crashed her shower or tried to contact her in the past year, she said no, but still made the decision to not have me be a part of her day. Again she stated that she would not regret this. I am heartbroken.

Dear Nanjojan,
I am so sorry things did not go as you had hoped, I know it is hard to believe that these are the precious little girls we raised.   Any illness that she thinks you have is no reason to not invite you to her wedding.  One thing for sure, though, she definitely will regret not having her mother there. My prayers are with you..........Jill

Dear Nan , what a selfish little girl she is !  Acting like rhe spoilt princess !  They must.have their day at all costs ! People are perhaps not going to her wedding because of her treatment of you , not because of you ! Dear Nan I know it will be heartbreaking nor going ,  but I think it would be more upsetting to go . To be ignored and talked about if you did.turn up . Is your mother going without.you ? She.didn't seemed concerned about her welfare . Let.bridezilla have her day , she has a whole.lifetime to regret her decision . Sending hearfelt hugs , we are with you .

Hello Nan:  My heart just aches for you!  We have all had similar experiences and I don't know that any of us has the answers.  Sometimes I think the pain just clouds our thinking, and then the guilt over what we could have done wrong takes over the rest of our thinking process.  Still we get nowhere.  I hope you will do as one of the other mothers suggested and first try calling your daughter to go to lunch, hold the tears at bay, and see if she will come around.  If not, send her a beautiful flower arrangement and let her know she is in your heart and thoughts as she walks down the aisle.     I have been five years separated from my daughter and two GDs.  I have tried everything you can think of and nothing works.  Her twin and I are on speaking terms but I feel the allegiance to her sister since she also doesn't want to be cut out.  If I could go back five years I would have showed up at my daughteers door and faced her instead of hiding in the house and crying all the time.  In my case I know what happened, I went thru a severe depression and lashed out at both daughters.  I tried apologizing a hundred times but they both backed away.  I think our kids see one parent as the strong one and when she falls down they keep their distance.  I don't know the answers and you may get none.  You will hurt the day she gets married, but I can't help but wonder how your daughter will feel when she finally realizes this new woman stood in mom's place.  You will make it thru the day and we will all be thinking of you and sending you good thoughts.

Keys Girl, bahahahahaha!  What a hoot LOL

I say give yourself a fabulous day.  Wait, scratch that, have a fabulous week.  Fancy wine, spa treatments, massages, order in or go out every night...whatever floats your boat.  Have a week for *you* to remember.

Unbelievable. Funny she didn't mention this before making off with the loot!

Quote from: Ruth on October 21, 2011, 08:06:33 AM
If circumstances do not place you in your rightful place at that wedding, then you are being protected and sheltered from harm.  You can get through this. 

Ruth- I am going to let this be close to my mind and heart. Thank you!

Quote from: lancaster lady on October 23, 2011, 11:46:10 PM
I know it will be heartbreaking not going, but I think it would be more upsetting to go . To be ignored and talked about if you did turn up .

LL- you know that would probably be it in a nutshell, seeing as how it is usually like that.

Nanjojan, your actions during the past year show that you are one lovely, classy lady.  I admire your self control in not contacting your daughters about being left out of engagement parties and family holiday celebrations.  All the disappointments they have thrown at you are a measure of them, not you. 

Your daughter has chosen to exclude you from her wedding for reasons of her own.  It is all about her, not you.  There is absolutely nothing you could have done to induce her to include you.  Whatever happened last year is not a real reason for her actions.  She is just using those things as a excuse to throw in your face and absolve herself.

I join other WW here to send you love and strength.  Keep posting.  Love yourself.

P.S.  I agree with Pen.  So nice of her to throw all that in your face after she got the loot!

Quote from: nanjojan on October 23, 2011, 07:24:03 PM
She replied, just get help. I stepped back and asked what she said and she told me that she is sure that I have borderline personality disorder and this is why she is not inviting me to the wedding.

This girl sounds like she has full blow Adult Brat Disorder - no borderline about it!

I've been doing some more thinking about this, Nan, and I've come to the conclusion that your ex and his new shiny wife aren't acting as adults.  I simply can't imagine why your ex isn't insisting that you deserve to be included.  And I doubly can't imagine why that new shiny isn't insisting that you MUST be there - that it isn't right for her to take your place. 

I expect adults to behave better than that.  That's the only way children learn - by our examples.  Your ex is not doing his job.

Dear Nan,
I am just seething at the pain that has been inflicted on you by your daughter. I am usually not in favor of "the cut off", but I'll tell you what I'd do. Send her a lovely card, wish her the best for a wonderful life, but tell her you agree your relationship has become too painful for all involved and you intend to focus on yourself, ask her to please not contact you again until she is willing to enter family therapy with you. If she's not, that's it, game over.  And stick to it. She is getting something out of doing this to you, you need to cut of what ever sick reward she's enjoying. You deserve so much better.

Yup, write the card that cuts her off.  Don't mention therapy because it will play into her hand.  Then --- ta da!  BURN THE CARD!  Yup, burn it.  You have now completely cut her off, but you have not given her the pleasure of knowing anything about it.  You are keeping her off balance. 

It's best that way.

I just thought sending a card would give Nan some comfort and closure. It's such a painful situation my heart breaks for her.

I too hope Nan can find some comfort and closure.  And I agree with writing a card.  But I also wouldn't want her DD to be able to find anything in the card that might fuel her hate or negativity at Nan.  That's why I suggested the burn. 

I also love the idea that we can cut off our kids without feeling the need to discuss it with them.  For me, when things reach that point, I'd just as soon keep the kid wondering.  I certainly hope my DS and DIL are still wondering why I'm no longer sending gifts, flowers, cards, etc. to DIL.

Nan, our hearts break for you.  Tell us all how we can help.

Hi Nan,

So much good advice and support for you here on WW!

I agree with Amflaut.

First it is very rude and odd that Ex husband and new  wife have not insisted you be present at the wedding. However I can see that the saying "Any rejection is God's protection" is probably what is happening for you because your daughter's actions are really bad.

I have found that "What goes around comes around".

It may take many many years but in my life, I would not want to have done to me what my daughter and x-husband and sw have done to me because I couldn't take the "comes around" part they have had to pay. Someday you may be in a position to pity them all. I am in such a position now. Although they have a lot of money, trips world wide, they are not well mentally nor physically and their attempts at happiness mask very guilty consciouses or no consciouses.

So in somethings find peace and solace, the book is not fully written, you will see things unfold.
In the days and months coming you will find strength from this group of WWomen and find yourself growing strong.  Unfortunately those who sadden you now will come forward in true colours and you may see that this is not such a surprise, you may recognize that all the signs of their current behavior was already there for a long time, you were just not seeing that at the time. THat's ok, its normal for wives and moms to see the ones we love with a little bit of the pink haze in front of us.

Blessings on all you do these weeks. I'll pray for you, the saints and angels at your side as you go forward!

Words cannot say how wonderful you all have been. I have read these responses to my mom. She said, so this has happened to others, then cried. I came home from taking mom to 3 doctor appointments today before her surgery on Thursday and found that dd left a message for my mom thanking her for the glasses and dishes and nothing for me. I called my therapist and told her what happened yesterday and I have an appointment tomorrow at 1:00. Thank you all...love , Nanjojan

Nan,
I'm so sorry things didn't work out. I was praying she would come around but she has been infected with the ugly bug. Her behavior is not just selfish but  terribly mean. I say remember the sweet girl she was and make plans as Pam suggested to treat yourself to a "me day". If she ever gets her head screwed back on, then maybe things will turn around.

So sorry again....

Debbie

Keep reading and posting Nan.  We have your back. :-*

I don't have alot of time this morning to go deep, but I still wanted to pop by and say - Nanjo you did great.  You gave it your best shot, and that's all any of us got.  You were brave, you were dignified, and you did achieve something.  Not what you goal was, but I'm going to share two old rock and roll cliches that comfort me when I Go For It and end up with something else.  "Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans," John Lennon.  "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need," Rolling Stones.

You didn't talk to your daughter for a year.  Now you did.  You had no idea where she was coming from.  Now, although it doesn't make much sense, you do know she's not quite angry, but more confused and afraid.  And you know those are her issues for her to deal with.  In her time.

I think it's interesting she told you she will have no regrets.  What a foolish young thing to think she can predict that.  I am hoping your DD is immature, and a bit naive.  Because that can change with time.  Perhaps that is why she showed you and your mother the photos.  Maybe that was her way of thinking she was including you.  From her it could be a small gesture of what she thought was kindness, rather than salt in a wound.   It was bitterweest.  I don't want to believe she was motivated by material greed, although I realize that could also explain her behavior.  I don't know if she has a history of material greed.    I can't blame her father, although I do think it evident she's unsure how to handle incorprating both her father and his new wife and you into her life, and took what seems to me the coward's move.

People give what they have to give.  With the wedding off the table soon, maybe it will begin to free up some energy to be able to work on having a new level of relationship with her, eventually.  Not what you used to have.    But maybe something else, some day.  I am so overwhelmingly impressed by what you did.  You took a risk, you opened your heart, and you went for it.  She didn't have more to give, and that's on her, not you.  You are the one who has no regrets.  What you did brought tears to my eyes.  You are an amazing woman.

Quote from: Ruth

QuoteIf circumstances do not place you in your rightful place at that wedding, then you are being protected and sheltered from harm.  You can get through this. 

Yes!  Of course right now it doesn't feel like not going is the best thing for you, but I believe in a way that may never be revealed, it is.

Quote from: Sassy on October 25, 2011, 06:16:47 AM
People give what they have to give. 

Wise words. 

Nan, I hope you can take Sassy's words and run with them.  Her comment re. your DD's comment 'no regrets' I have lived long enough also to know the folly of these words.  She will have many regrets.  But also as Sassy said, 'you weren't talking to your DD, now you are'.  There will be much follow up to this wedding day, and in time all your children will grieve that they misunderstood you and were deceived by their DF.  I cannot judge his motives, but I can say that whatever he believes to be true, to poison the mind of his child against his own mother, or to create fear in his child against her own mother, is an evil thing to do that will have repercussions in this life and in the life to come.  I've learned as I get older to leave the judgement and the payback to the great judge of the whole earth.  My job as a human being is only to live one day at a time using whatever opportunity presents itself to me, to take care of my responsibilities and hope to leave my little circle a little better than I found it the day before.  love to you, Nan

Ladies, thank you all for your confidence in me. I can only hope that one day I will become as wise as you. Sassy, thank you for taking the time to write, I find so much comfort in everyones words. You all are an inspiration to me. I cannot wait for November 5Th to come and go. Tomorrow my mother is scheduled for her first surgery and on Thursday the hip replacement. Her chances are not good that she will pull through, so today I am focused on my mother. My oldest son and his gf are going to dinner with us tonight. My mom cries for fear that she will leave me alone with no one. To say life is tough right now is minimalistic. I am thankful to have all of you...where have you been all of my life????

Quote from: amflautist on October 24, 2011, 11:21:29 AMI've come to the conclusion that your ex and his new shiny wife aren't acting as adults.  I simply can't imagine why your ex isn't insisting that you deserve to be included.  And I doubly can't imagine why that new shiny isn't insisting that you MUST be there - that it isn't right for her to take your place. 
I expect adults to behave better than that. Your ex is not doing his job.

amflautist- I've always tried to be the better person and not speak bad about my XH and wife. The fact is some new shinys are loony tunes.... when XH wouldn't leave me alone in our home, I just moved out with very little. The new shiny  took and wore my clothes and shoes, used my b-day gifts as her own etc. Then proceeded within a year to keep my XH from his DD & DS. My point is some x's are incapable of acting as adults. So I am not surprised at Nan's situation.

Quote from: elizabeth on October 24, 2011, 01:16:58 PM
I have found that "What goes around comes around".
It may take many many years but in my life, I would not want to have done to me what my daughter and x-husband and sw have done to me because I couldn't take the "comes around" part they have had to pay. Someday you may be in a position to pity them all.
the book is not fully written, you will see things unfold.

elizabeth- This is one of the greatest fears I have for my AC, that one day they will know this pain.
I ask myself why me, I might have been a little boy crazy, but never did this to my own P. Never drank, did drugs, acted out as a teen. I just don't get it sometimes. Oh well.

As for me despite telling myself to get a grip, I am in severe anganst this week. In the back of my mind I keep hearing that little voice say...another days gone by and only X days left till wedding and not a word...jab, jab, jab...

Nan- In my thought's and prayers.

Bdwell,

I'm sorry you were treated so badly in that situation. The second wife seems to have so much control over the poor man!

I thank G_d that it hasn't been any worse, it could have been worse, for my oDD.

He was sexual with both DD's, and he is not a stepdad, he was their bio father! When I discovered him running from our bedroom in his underwear and my YDD, who was 9 years old, in our bed with my nightie on, I asked him to leave. He did so next day. I was horrified and shocked to the limit of my being. He still has quite a hold on my oldest DD's mind who later told me he had abused her also. I don't believe she is responsible for anything she does in life or her mental state. He left in 1983, I wish he had left the day after the second was born.

Wife 2 came along fairly quickly, I was not surprised about that, and could have cared less. She was a complete controller, a gold digger. My only hope for my oDD is that the wife 2 dies first so that all his money will go to my oDD and her son, they really really deserve that' and DD won't see a penny if wife 2 lives to inherit it.

WHat wife 2 did is so horrible I don't dare post it here. I think everyone would be in shock and grief for along time if I did. Two deaths came from her actions which were only justified by greed and her desire to have complete control over X husband and YDD. Its been nearly 20 years now, I will never be able to forgive her or my x husband, not that they would even think to ask for forgiveness of anyone, including G-d. Not thier style. So, that is why I say people who do such will see their actions come back upon them. I don't need to do anything to them, they will be suffering for a long long time, actually they have a very easy and nice life now, so I feel that their justice is in the hands of the Divine Providence. Wish I was a saint, but havn't got what it takes to forgive them, not when it comes to ruining daughters and grandchildren.

Welcome Nan and I'm so sorry for your pain.  I hope all goes well with your Mother.  She needs you now and that's the person you should concentrate on.  The right thing for DD to have done Sunday, was tell you what she did and not take anything with her.  Just the fact she didn't have a problem taking things, but yet says she doesn't want you there, is so very selfish and wrong.  No regrets?  Famous last words.  Hang in there Nan.

Elizabeth- I was molested by my MGF. He died when I was in highschool 30 someodd yrs ago. Many of us were, by various members of the family. Some of the adults even knew or suspected what was happening. My cousins and I long ago got together and had a long discussion. Stopping the cycle, trying to heal etc. We have all had lifelong battles with weight. Issue's of self loathing, trust etc. I'm sure many of my decisions throughout life subconcousily were made from this. I try not to reflect on it, and have done alot of self-therapy to overcome my issues. When something inside a person is broken to such a degree it is difficult. I wish the best for your DDs. I'm sure if we could sit down and talk we find alot in common.  ;)

Quote from: bdwell1904 on October 25, 2011, 08:49:30 AM

Quote from: amflautist on October 24, 2011, 11:21:29 AMI've come to the conclusion that your ex and his new shiny wife aren't acting as adults.  I simply can't imagine why your ex isn't insisting that you deserve to be included.  And I doubly can't imagine why that new shiny isn't insisting that you MUST be there - that it isn't right for her to take your place. 
I expect adults to behave better than that. Your ex is not doing his job.

amflautist- I've always tried to be the better person and not speak bad about my XH and wife. The fact is some new shinys are loony tunes.... when XH wouldn't leave me alone in our home, I just moved out with very little. The new shiny  took and wore my clothes and shoes, used my b-day gifts as her own etc. Then proceeded within a year to keep my XH from his DD & DS. My point is some x's are incapable of acting as adults. So I am not surprised at Nan's situation.

Quote from: elizabeth on October 24, 2011, 01:16:58 PM
I have found that "What goes around comes around".
It may take many many years but in my life, I would not want to have done to me what my daughter and x-husband and sw have done to me because I couldn't take the "comes around" part they have had to pay. Someday you may be in a position to pity them all.
the book is not fully written, you will see things unfold.

I ask myself why me, I might have been a little boy crazy, but never did this to my own P. Never drank, did drugs, acted out as a teen. I just don't get it sometimes. Oh well.

As for me despite telling myself to get a grip, I am in severe anganst this week. In the back of my mind I keep hearing that little voice say...another days gone by and only X days left till wedding and not a word...jab, jab, jab...

I know, bdwell.  It is such a hard time for you.  You feel all topsy turvy right now, but the world will right itself soon.  You are a good person, I read so much into your posts.  I know you have had a wretched past, and this is a deep period of pain for you right now with this wedding, but you are a woman who has a great deal of insight and wisdom.  Your children are missing out on a lot.  I am truly sorry.  You are a caregiver for the elderly, you have sown seeds of kindness to others you know not of, my dear, and I am confident that you've made lasting impressions and been a lifeline to many, many people in your care.  Use that pain for good, it has made you a deeper person and made you capable of empathy, and had deepened your capacity to love.  thinking kind thoughts of you, and also dear dear Elizabeth.   I am so sorry also for these tragic memories that have erupted, I encourage you to work on pushing those memories far far away when they emerge, and think in their place healing thoughts.  Every time those horrid thoughts come up, say no out loud, and remind yourself that life is beautiful and God holds your past, present and future in his hands.

sorry about the mess I made of that quote!  I was trying to pick up the last line by bdwell, but it looks like I copied a book.   

bdwell,

I'm sorry you had to go through such an experience. Thank you for sharing this with me. You have found some good ways to cope with it and heal, that is so hopeful. My DD has had a lot of therapy which has helped very much, but the scars are deep and she continues to have a relationship with her Dad which is a very strained and strange one, mostly built on her need for financial help and his wealth.

You were really fortunate to find out that your cousins etc. had the same experience! Its difficult to understand how it can happen around other adults, but I have learned that abusers know how to manage situations and fool parents into thinking its not happening by cunning plans. I know if I hadn't arrived unexpectedly that afternoon I may have not known for many years what had been going on.

It must have been affirming for you to have your cousins to share with what really had happened. I think sometimes its so hard to come to grips with the reality of it when facing it alone. I hope the best for you and all your life.

Please find some one to visit with or be with on that day coming up for you. I'm thinking you probaby have some friends or even your family who you can see or spend time with and even talk about how you feel that day if you need to. Be kind to yourself, you are worth it!

and Ruth, thanks!  you were posting while mine came in. Its so true what you say, for the most part the bad memories are further away. And making  new memories over them. Sometimes the uglies do surface, I will send them to the Creator of Heaven and Earth and see that he must be able to do something good with them, as I sure can't seem to!! THank you again for understanding so well Ruth.

We all have a life left to live, helping each other is one gift that is rare and precious.
Good days ahead I hope for all WWU's!

Nan

I agree with Amflautist.... your daughter have reasons of her own.  She wanted to have an excuse to cut you off.  The fact that ex and wife are coming to the wedding have me thinking that she doesnt want you to be in the same place, and moreover, that the other lady is taking your place.

And also the fact that she mentions that she will never feel guilty about not having you in her wedding is more proof that she will.  She is trying to convince herself that she wont. 

I am so sorry you are hurting so bad, continue your therapy and you know you have all of us here for you. 

Nan....  We love you

I think that some x-husbands are so angry when the marriage breaks up that they spend the rest of their days trying to destroy their ex-wives for "rejecting" them, even if they were the horrible husbands, and I think one of the ways they do this is to alienate their children so that their ex-wives won't be invited to the wedding and even "parachute" the new wife in for the "glory" of the day.

It is cruel and malicious and I think there are only two options:
A. Shoot them, spend the rest of your life in jail eating crummy food, etc.etc.
B. Survive the grief and malice and get on with having as great a life as you can make for yourself.

I recently had a wonderful day, and the phrase that came to mind as I was smiling and having fun was "Take that ___________ (insert x-husband's name), you weren't able to destroy me although you tried to in so many ways and probably will until your coffin is lowered into the ground and having witnessed the lies that you told our son from an early age and likely had a hand in having me banished, I felt triumphant.

No, I wasn't at the wedding, I'm not in the photos, his girlfriend (the spitting image of me, I'm told, likely is), no my son and I no longer have a relationship, but as Elton John sang "I'm still standing, yah, yah, yah" and I'm still smiling and laughing.

Hang in there, ladies, there is life, laughter and song after the weddings, whether or not you attend them, etc.etc.etc.

You women are wonderful. No word from my daughter today. Mom and I had dinner with my 2 sons. OS gf left him and now my 2 sons are living in a 9 room house without either parent thanks to xh moving 30 minutes away with his nw. My os has cystic fibrosis and needs daily treatment and also has a drinking problem combine that with a 19 year old unsupervised and it is party time. I called my xh tonight but of course no answer. I left a message for him asking what his plans were about our sons since he left. I also informed that I saw our D and she told me I had the personality disorder. I also told him that I saw my therapist what D said. I was cleared of any personality issues, just stress and depression due to all the insanity going on in my life thanks to uncaring people.
I thank you all for your support. I do believe nw has a hold on him but he was difficult before her.

KG, once again you've posted a gem!

Nanjo, glad to hear you don't have a personality disorder, lol. As if.

Dear Keysgirl:

I, as Pen,  loved your post.   "Life after the wedding....whether we attend or not".....(awesome). 
BTW I love the song ""I'm still standing". 
Keep up posting, you make me laugh. 

Love you

Nan must have felt good with this post.  Thanks for being one of us. 

Nanjo, I have a long history of recurrent depression.  For several years it was very bad.  Depressed people take a big hit a lot of times, because other 'functioning' family members who are often and usually the perpetrators of the severe stress that is causing the depression, stand around looking smug and accuse the depressed person (in a concerned manner) of having a mental illness and they really need to get some help and get their act together, that they (the depress-ee) are the real problem and they (the functioning perpetrator) are the victims.  I am really sick of this scenario.  I suffered the torments of hades during my depression, and on top of it felt guilty and responsible for troubling others with my 'issues'.  I don't buy into this any more.  When I have a depressed spell, LOOK OUT, because I'm not accepting the victimization card any more from others who cause the stress.  I think depressed people are the ones who are actually functioning at the higher level, because the depressed person is seeing things as they actually are, and that much reality can be unbearable.  The rest of the population lives in a large amount of denial and numbness so they aren't depressed.  Depression is not a mental illness, it is the emotionals saturated with stress and upset, and just not able to keep moving forward, needing a down time.  But the system gets confused and puts itself in a loop.  You are not the perpetrator in this sick family dynamic, and you need to not accept any more accusations or labeling.  Stand up to your family members and defend your illness if you have to. 

Whoa, I like that. Although I am sorry for your depression as I am for  mine.  What you said made so much sense.

I have found with me anyway depression and anxiety are really coming from ANGER. I think so many of us in our age range grew up being taught that anger was not an acceptable emotion for a "lady". So when my DS or ODS did something that infuriated me I'd turn that anger inward. Since I felt the situation was hopeless I'd get depressed, and all the buried anger made me anxious so I wouldn't sleep, it was a vicious cycle. I started feeling better when I took back control of my life and realized my worth did not hinge on anyone else's opinion of me....sons included!

There is something to be said about letting off steam before you blow a gasket !

LOL!!!

So true

I am currently waiting for my mother to come out of recovery. I checked my email via my lap top and saw that my OD was online. I sent her a simple message stating that her grandmother was in a lot of pain but out of the first surgery. The major one is tomorrow. I do not expect a response but took the chance. This DD lives 10 minutes away from the hospital in which my mother is having surgery. Wouldn't it be nice if she had called my mother before her surgery? Or put aside her DS issues to come and sit with me? No such luck. I do agree with depression coming from anger. I teach anger management and many of us are unaware that anger is not just anger. It comes from disappointment, low self esteem, humiliation, embarrassment etc.  It does boggle my mind how my YD can diagnose me yet does not see anything wrong with her selfishness.

I'm very glad your Mother came through the first surgery well Nan.  I know that you are under a ton of stress right now and have alot on your plate.  You need to eliminate some of that stress Nan.  Deal with the ones you can eliminate, like not calling your ex, not texting your DD.  You are setting yourself up for disappointment.  You can not control what they are or are not doing, only what you are going to do which is be there for your Mother.  Let your Sons deal with their Dad, let DD deal with her DS and you do something for yourself.

{{{{{{{{{{o}}}}}}}}}}}

I agree with Pooh .....your Mom is number one priority , and she needs you 100% .

Prayers for your mom, nanjo. 
And Love for you.

Yes Nanjo  -  Keep it simple   ;)

Nan, your mother is lucky to have a devoted daughter, unfortunately, for the moment you are quite as luck, but you and your mother are the only ones on the priority list in my mind.  Take care, thinking of you.

Hey Keys girl - nice to "see" you again. Maybe I have missed your posts lately because it seems like I have not seen them for awhile. 

This topic and thread are really interesting...lots to think about. Thanks!

Quote from: sesamejane on October 26, 2011, 10:40:06 PM
Hey Keys girl - nice to "see" you again. Maybe I have missed your posts lately because it seems like I have not seen them for awhile. 

Hey Sesamejane, thanks for the note, I'm here whenever I can be, nice to "see" you again too.

Hi Nan, so sorry for all of this pain for you.  Ruth, I agree 150% with you regarding depression and the view others take.  I have suffered with this since my teens and have learned the hard way not to tell unsafe fam and others my business any longer.  I don't tell them about "therapy" which Nan, honestly consider having them think you are done with all of that.  It is not their business and they will just abuse you because of it.  I think everyone should go to counseling at some point, but I agree with you Ruth, that they "healthy" seek it.  It's a replay of mean girls, people, hs cliques,bullying.  The popular mean people don't show tears,which to them means "weakness".  To me this world is getting colder and colder, and the divide more clear.  Nan, they don't deserve to see your pain, and tears.  Please try to "fake it" when speaking with them, don't tell them you're depressed and going to an appt.  Honestly, make it seem you're done, and fine and don't need it. That's what I did with my fam, they know nothing about my meds, nothing about feeling down, they never will again.

Thank you again for your posts. I am at University of Penn with my Aunt waiting for news that my mother has finally been taken into surgery. My mom cried this morning. I have told my Aunt everything as she was one of the ones my daughter felt the need to tell about my supposed personality disorder! I have another appointment on Monday with the therapist but I do think you are correct Colleen in not saying anything to unsafe family members....it is a shame we cannot rely on them.

I'm very glad you have someone with you there today.

I'll keep you and your mother in my prayers today.

I do think it is best to keep just about everyone "out of the loop", as any information can and will be used against you.

If people are lying about you the phrase "what fools believe is no concern of mine" was taught to me when I was on the roasting spit some time ago.

Quote from: Nana on October 26, 2011, 03:35:08 AM
Dear Keysgirl:

I, as Pen,  loved your post.   "Life after the wedding....whether we attend or not".....(awesome). 
BTW I love the song ""I'm still standing". 
Keep up posting, you make me laugh. 

Love you

Nan must have felt good with this post.  Thanks for being one of us.

Thank you, Nan, thank you for having me as one of us.  Love all of you too,
KG

Hello Nan, I feel very sorry you are going through this. It is so hard to figure these things out sometimes, but I know when I went through my divorce the same happened to me. I had only my mother as well ( who then passed away), and my X had a huge extended family- therein was the problem. Also there was some parent alienation going on from my X, which may be your problem too. It is hard to tell when the kids won't talk to you. I know it is heartbreaking right now but maybe at least on ot two of your children will come around for you in the near future. I hope so.

Nan- just thinking of you  ???

Me too, my thoughts have been with you and your mom all day. I know you're busy; we'll be here when you have time to take a breath.

Prayers going up from here Nanjo.

One day at a time: is all we have to get through, tomarrow isnt our business until it arrives.

I hope all is well with you and your mother today. Bless you both.

Hi Everyone, my mom came through the surgery but she is in ICU and is not herself. She is very confused which they say is normal. My oldest daughter came to the hospital and acted as if nothing was wrong. She did hug and kiss me and tell me she loved me. I have had a very rough day today knowing that my daughter will be married this time next week and also because I could not see my mom due to the bad weather here. I do thank you for all of your kind thoughts. I am so tired of crying.

Dear Nan ..        you are allowed to cry , its your body release mechanisms kicking in to release all that pressure .You are facing a double whammy and you need some way to ease the pressure . Your Mom is over the first hurdle and she is facing.an uphill struggle but with you beside her she is going to be fine . As far as your DD goes , she will no doubt regret her decision  for the rest of her life , thats hers to live with . At the moment she  is so tied up with preparations her mind will be spinning , but  after her grand day she will have time to reflect and I'll bet regret .            Stay focused on  your Mom as she is precious , one day your DD will come to realise just how precious you are.  One day at a time Nan , my thoughts are with you and your Mom . Take care .

Nan, first of all you don't know for sure that your daughter will be married next week.......who knows what can happen.......but either way.......it's not your wedding, but it is your mother.........focus on her and you and exclude everyone else on the planet who isn't helping you and her........one day at a time.......remember the movie "Castaway" with Tom Hanks where he said "I'm just going to keep breathing and see what the tide brings in"......Just keep breathing and cry if you want to.  That's why they invented kleenex.  Keep your lifejacket on and just see what the tide brings in.

I hope your mother is doing better.  Please update us.

I did a quick timeline to understand your story better.  Please let me know if I'm right.

You were married 31 years and have been divorced one year and have a 32 year old daughter.  I wonder if you married young and plunge immediately into parenthood?  I don't know if it means anything, but I know how hard that is (I did it).

You had 4 children. A married daughter, a son with Cystic Fibrosis and a drinking problem who needs medical treatment every day, a younger daughter who's about to get married, and an 18/19 year old who is a drug dealer.  From just these bare facts, it appears that there is some dysfunction in the family: divorce, estrangement, drinking problems and drug dealing.  Please don't think I'm being judgemental, I have all those except drug dealing in my family too, altho I know one of my sons smokes pot. 

You and your children were all close until the divorce.  It seems it was at that time that the change happened.  So what happened to cause the divorce?  It doesn't apparent to be the new stepmother, since your Xhusband didn't know her until apparently a month after the divorce ended.  It seems somehow your daughters blame you for the divorce.  Or if they don't, they are unhappy with how you behaved or reacted during the divorce.  I'm not saying it's true, I'm saying that might be the perception.

About the same time as you got divorced, your younger daughter got engaged, and shortly afterwards, maybe a couple weeks, your X met his new wife.  Suddenly it was thanksgiving and ALL four children chose to be with him (maybe to meet the new girlfriend?) and NONE chose to spend the day with you.

Did they spend any of the Thanksgiving weekend with you?  How did it come about, you said they told you on the phone.  Was it one phone call, or several one from each child?  Did they call you or you call them?  What excuse did they give?  You said you cried?  Did they know you cried?  Did they know you were upset?  I think this was a pivotal event because they didn't see you for Christmas.  You said you get along well with your sons, can you find out from them why they chose dad's and not yours?  If you do it without tears or blame, do you think they'd explain their reasoning to you.

Younger daughter had an engagement party given to her in February by your daughter's ILs? Were the the inlaws of your older daughter? Or the future inlaws of your younger daughter?  Have you had much interaction with the hosts of the engagement party?

I'm wondering what was the reason for excluding you.  Did they feel they had to choose between Dad and GF and you?  That it would be too awkward if you were there?  Is it possible that your X knew his GF more than a year and there was some overlap in your marriage and everyone else knows except you and they assume you know and they feel awkward about it?  Did the hosts have a problem with you, perhaps disapproved of something else you did? 

Frankly though because the kids all decided to skip Thanksgiving with you and then Xmas (did your sons spend Xmas with you?), it more sounds like it was your daughter who said, I don't want her invited.  But why?  It's got to be something during the divorce.  If you were close before and suddenly pulled away, it's got to be that.  Can you remember what the first time you had a clue that your DDs were not happy with you?

Then you went through spring and summer and didn't see the girls. In August your daughter had a wedding shower, and again you were left out.  Was there any contact during those months?  You said you sat your eldest daughter down and tried to talk to her but she denied everything.  You also said you asked her to go to counseling, one daughter said no, the other went to one session.  How did that session go?  Did the new stepmother go to the wedding shower?

About a month later, your X got remarried.  Which he has the right to do, and he was not obligated to tell you.  Nor were any of the kids.  But I'm surprised not one of the 4 did.  Why do you suppose that is?  Were your sons afraid of your reaction to the news maybe?  How would you have reacted? 

You said you found out by looking at your DD's Facebook.  Do you do that often?  Do they know?  Does she say anything about you on her FB, do you write anything?

This is heartbreaking.

Quote from: nanjojan on October 23, 2011, 07:24:03 PMI gave her a box that was filled with small trinkets from my heart for her wedding day along with two gifts that are family heirlooms. She appeared to be pleased. Things were going extemely well until......it was time for them to leave. My daughter came over to me and hugged me and as we stood there hugging I told her I loved her and she said she loved me too. I began crying and said to her, I do not know what I have done but I am sorry. She replied, just get help. I stepped back and asked what she said and she told me that she is sure that I have borderline personality disorder and this is why she is not inviting me to the wedding.

Of course, the problem was when you started crying.  I cry easily too.  I guess it upsets our kids more than we realize.  It makes them feel, per my therapist: helpless, guilt and then angry.  They feel it's manipulative because they think parents should not cry.  It's not until kids are in their 40's they can really see their parents as just plain humans; until then we are supposed to be bigger than life--not just in their childhood, but in their early adulthood.  It's how they figure out adulthood and parenthood, and if we seem weak, they get frightened that they have no 'leader' into adulthood--and then they get angry.  They can't see us as weak, so they see us as manipulative. 

I don't know that I understand that so much (are we told we have to treat our ACs as equal adults? but I guess not. We have to lead without appearing to be leading).    Anyway I wonder if some of that isn't your DD's reaction.  And maybe (I'm just guessing) it explains their migration to your X--he seems to know all the answers and seems sure of himself and seems to be a successful happy adult? 

Quote from: nanjojan on October 23, 2011, 07:24:03 PMLast year at this time, 4 months post divorce, as I stated problems ensued over Thanksgiving. Hurtful things were said by my children and myself. It appears that because I cried and got upset that my daughter has held on to these things and is confident that I am suffering from this disorder. I have been in therapy for a year due to my depression over my childrens behavior. No one else is. My daughter refused to go with me. She said several other things and left in huff, stating that people were not coming to her wedding because of me. I asked her how did she think her disabled grandmother was going to attend a wedding 2 hours away if I did not take her. No reply.

She did tell me that I was a good mother but feels I am unstable to attend her wedding. I did ask if I had crashed her shower or tried to contact her in the past year, she said no, but still made the decision to not have me be a part of her day. Again she stated that she would not regret this. I am heartbroken.

I sort of see some of the problems here.  You said hurtful things.  I understand they did too, but from adult kids I'm sure they think they were just 'telling the truth' whereas you were being 'hurtful'.  Not fair, but not uncommon.  You know...that old "I talk a lot because I'm vivacious; you talk a lot because you are self impressed" thing.

She said other people were not coming to the wedding because of you: could that be Dad and new wife?  Did they make that ultimatum at the engagement party and wedding shower too? 

When you asked how her sick grandmother would get to the wedding without you, you misstepped; they surely thought you were trying to use guilt and manipulation. 

It's interesting that she said you were a good mother but [now] too unstable to attend her wedding; it points again that something very recent changed you from acceptable to unacceptable. 

I'm wondering if you didn't have a lot of trouble with the divorce and with perhaps finding out at the same time your son was dealing drugs, and if maybe you didn't lean a little too much on your children, or have a lot of trouble handling the divorce (which would be understandable if you were married 31 years AND had spent pretty much all your adult life as a wife and mother).  But maybe not understandable to ACs who haven't been married so long. 

Welcome, BunnyMa. If you haven't already done so, please take a minute to read our Forum Agreement and How This Happened under Open Me First on the home page. We ask this of all new members, just to make sure the site is a good fit.

Nan - my heart goes out to you.  What with your mother being ill and your daughter treating you so disrespectfully.  I know what it is like to not be included in a child's wedding, I was deemed unworthy to attend my only child's wedding (a daughter).  She was married in a Temple in SLC.  Although we were worthy enough for them to live with us, not once, not twice, but three times and assist them in purchasing their own home.  One of her reasons for the estrangement (she shared this with a friend of mine) is that I am bi-polar and so a danger to her children.  So been there, done that.  Even if I am bi-polar (which I am not) is that a reason for a AC to disown their parent?
Whatever our children's reasons are for how they treat us, I concur with what I have read here many times - we may never know the reasons why and it can drive us crazy trying to not only figure it out but fix it.  If one person in a relationship is not willing to come to the table to at least discuss things then IMO the relationship is doomed.
Cry, scream, vent, pound on a pillow; whatever helps you get through this very, very difficult, gutwrenching time.
HUGS

Quote from: nanjojan on October 25, 2011, 08:36:18 PM... now my 2 sons are living in a 9 room house without either parent thanks to xh moving 30 minutes away with his nw. My os has cystic fibrosis and needs daily treatment and also has a drinking problem combine that with a 19 year old unsupervised and it is party time. I called my xh tonight but of course no answer. I left a message for him asking what his plans were about our sons since he left.

I think this was a mistake.  He's your X and it's really not your business what goes on in his house, who he has living there, what happens while they are there.  He owes you no explanations, does not need or want your approval, and his plans with his adult sons are his and their business, not yours.

I completely understand why you called him.  A drug dealer and a sick alcoholic both very young living without supervision in a large house all expenses paid partying without restraint is a terrible idea.  It's a disaster in the making.  But it's not your business.

I would be sick at the thought myself in your shoes.  And I would have to fight the impulse to call.  After all for 31 years you parented these children together, you both love them, you are still both their parents.  I understand that you were trying to be mature and responsible and to coparent.  But he isn't likely to see it that way.  He's likely to think you are trying to meddle and tell him what to do and were criticizing him.  He probably thought you were going to blame and accuse and try to guilt him.  And his new wife likely will tell him that you are having trouble getting over the divorce and are jealous.  And he'll believe her...because he wants to.

Some divorced parents can put aside their differences for their children's sake, I don't think you and your X can, at least not at this point.   :-\

Quote from: nanjojan on October 25, 2011, 08:36:18 PM... I also informed that I saw our D and she told me I had the personality disorder. I also told him that I saw my therapist what D said. I was cleared of any personality issues, just stress and depression due to all the insanity going on in my life thanks to uncaring people.

I also think this was a mistake too.  She's probably already told him she thinks you have a personality disorder.  He probably agrees because X's LOVE to think the worst of us and it'll make him feel smug and bonded with D.  I don't think he's probably interested in your well being or happiness and is not interested in discussing you or your concerns.  He probably won't believe that your therapist told you you didn't have one, or maybe doesn't even think you told your therapist.  More likely he doesn't care and just likes the idea of it, and that's his story and he's sticking to it.

I think also your D will not take it kindly that you are gossiping with her dad about her and what she said.  And she'll probably think you telling him what your therapist said is just a manipulative way of you telling her that she's wrong.  She doesn't think she's wrong.  She'll either think you're lying or your therapist doesn't know what's really going on with you. She may think you are trying to recruit her father to 'your side' against her and be both angry at the attempt and smug that it won't work.  And also, if your therapist is right, that means she's wrong, and you know she's not going to take that well.   :-[

I doubt either your X or your D care how much stress and depression you have in your life right now.  People like that think you deserve it, and if you'd only think and feel and be the way they think you should think and feel and be, you wouldn't have these problems; so it's your own fault.

I'm not saying I agree with that idea; it's a terrible thought, and very, very wrong.  But people like your X and D think that way, so it's best not to try to get help from them.  And the telling them that your problems were caused by the uncaring people in your life will seem manipulative and blaming to your D. 

I don't write this to tell you you are wrong and made a mistake, but maybe to help you think about it a different way so you will consider never calling your X again.  It's not the way it should be, but nothing good can come out of talking to him.  He's not on your side and he doesn't want your input and his wife will be upset that you 'can't let go' and are 'finding excuses to interact with him' and your Ds will think you are trying to manipulate them through him or make them or him feel sorry for you. 

At least for a very long time, please think long and hard before you call your X.  He's not your friend.

Quote from: nanjojan on October 18, 2011, 11:27:54 PM
No one is standing up for me and finding out what the problem with me is. All I can think about is that I will not be there to put her veil on, to watch her walk down the aisle , to say her vows and have her first dance. Her new stepmom will. She will be in the front pew and light the mother candle. She will be announced as stepmother of the bride. She did not raise her and does not even know her that well.

This is so horrible and so sad and so cruel.  Your daughter says she will never regret not having you there, but she is wrong. She's going to hate herself one day for this, especially since she acknowledges you were a good mother.  One day she's going to find out parenting is not so easy and she's not a perfect mother either.  She's going to find out she does not have all the answers and sometimes there are no answers just two bad choices to choose from.  Someday she may find herself divorced.  And if she has children, she will eventually be at odds with them too. 

I can almost understand not having you there if she really REALLY believes you are personality disordered and disruptive that she wouldn't have you there.  Maybe.  But I cannot believe she'd let a stranger substitute for you.  That she'd want her brand spanking new step mother to put on her veil, that she'd let her 3 months old stepmother light the mother's candle.  If she didn't want you, then why not have her sister do it in your place?

I want to cry for you.  This is just a terrible thing, a cruel thing.  I've thought and thought and thought while I was at Church tonight doing the costume party for the children, why she'd do this.  And I think part of it is your X is saying if your mother comes, I won't, and she wants her father to walk her down the isle.  And she wants his approval (did she have trouble getting it growing up)? Maybe this is the way into his good graces?  Is your X bitter about the divorce or the money settlement? 

But it can't be all your X's fault.  He may say "I'll never go where that woman shows up" and making your children choose--but he's not insisting that your kids cut you off.  Your sons come to see you, so your daughters could too if they want.  They are choosing not to, and why?  They must really believe the borderline personality disorder thing.   Or you did something during the divorce that upset them a lot.  Maybe showed your weakness and vulnerability which made them feel weak and vulnerable and helps explain why they are now siding with him?  Or since your daughter keeps mentioning instability, did you having crying fits or angry tirades or say hurtful things to them out of what they would consider nowhere? 

Your daughter is just not thinking.  She's so going to regret leaving you out of the wedding.   I can't believe she's bad, just unhappy and confused and torn and angry.  What an awful way to start a marriage, it's almost a curse.   How much better it would be to invite everyone and let those who want to come, come, and if there's any problem with anyone not behaving, just have them quietly escorted out. 

I'm so sorry about this part.  I would give you a hundred hugs if I could.

BunnyMa, first welcome.  I am asking that you take some time to read quite a few posts here to see what we strive for.  We are all open to various viewpoints and don't always agree, but we also do not badger a poster and pick apart every post.  That is counterproductive to being compassionate and understanding.  Trying to get a poster to go back and figure out everything they could have possibly done wrong does not help anyone move along in their life.

Nan, I hope everything is well with you and your Mother today.

Just thought I'd stop by Sunday came and went and my DD is married. Not a word from them. I cried too much, slept too much, and drank too much but I survived.
Nan- prayerfully in my thoughts this week.

bdwell1904, I know I was relieved when the wedding day was over, congratulations on making it through and surviving.  Nan, hope you are doing well,

KG

I know it stinks bdwell, but like Keys said...you survived!  Now that is done and over you can move forward.  It truly was their loss.

Quote from: bdwell1904 on November 02, 2011, 08:20:42 AM
Just thought I'd stop by Sunday came and went and my DD is married. Not a word from them. I cried too much, slept too much, and drank too much but I survived.
Nan- prayerfully in my thoughts this week.

Big Hugs.  It'll get better

Hi bdwell,

Take heart, mend your nets and be ready for the next wave.

We are all here for you.


Nan, hows it going? I am still hoping and praying your DD sees the light.

Bdwell, you did survive & now the healing can begin. "Mend your nets.." I like that imagery, Liz.

Nanjojan, sending good thoughts your way. Take some time to nurture yourself :)

Hi everyone, much has gone on this week so I will first start with my mom. We had a death scare on Wed. in which all children were called to the hospital. My DDS were practically emotionaless and laughed, texted, talked about the Kardashians and of course , THE WEDDING! All while my DSS were crying and holding their grandmothers hands. I finally had to tell my DDS to stop talking so I could hear my mothers final words. The chaplain was called in to pray and after she left, my mother started to rouse up. My YS asked me to take a walk because he was so disgusted by his sisters lack of concern. When we came back to the room, my DDS were leaving and left without a hug or a kiss of comfort to me. My DD who is getting married tomorrow, looked back over her shoulder and said I love you. I said nothing as I was unsure of whom those words were meant for. There was no love shown to me by either D. My DSS were loving and kind and caring and cried over their grandmother.
Tonight was the rehearsal and the dinner and tomorrow at this time it will all be over. I will find myself thinking and wondering what is going on, when she is getting her hair done, getting her veil on and wondering what her father says to her before he walks her down the aisle. I wonder if anyone will think of me and wonder how she could do this without regret. I will wonder what her father will say when the pastor asks who gives this woman to this man...will he still say... her mother and I, will he say...her stepmother and I, will he say....I do. I will be so happy when tomorrow night comes and this ordeal is over. I wish I could drink myself into oblivian but can't since I am diabetic. I am happy that mom has come around, she is not out of danger but she is much better for that I am thankful. Thank you all for your well wishes. I just want to make it through the day.

You know Nan I think you will be better off not attending this.wedding if that is the way you will be treated ! Who needs that ? If she truly ' loved you ' as she keeps saying , nothing would stop her asking you ! Perhaps her DF has issued his orders etc :......    I pray.for your DM , I hope her recovery continues , you will both need each other far more than youe DD seems to ......sending hugs .

Nan, it doesn't matter what anyone says, actions speak louder than words.

I agree with LL, sounds to be like you will be better off not attending the wedding, and I wouldn't be in a big hurry to have anyone back at your mother's bedside who laughed, etc.etc.

Very disappointing but the red flags are on the field and there seem to be more and more coming from her as time goes by.  Take care of yourself , your mother and the people who treat you well and try to forget those that don't and give them the opportunity to treat others badly, because they will go looking for another target if you aren't quite so handy.

Only one more day to get through.

Well the day is here. I received a phone at 6 am from my DM who is confused again today. I am frustrated with the doctors for not knowing what is causing this. Yesterday she was good, maybe today she is protecting herself somehow from not remembering it is her last grand daughters wedding to which she is not attending...not because she was not invited nor doesn't want too but because she was standing by side and disagreed with my daughters decision. I cannot wait for tomorrow to come.

oh Nan, when I got to the part about them laughing, I really couldn't read anymore.  It made me sick.  I believe it though, because I see the cruely in my own 2 daughters.  It seems like evil behavior or crazy or maybe like silly 4 yr.olds emotionally.  Idk, but this I can say, not knowing you, your daughters are sick in some way, stay away.  Again, do not let them see your humaness,as much as possible.
love,and prayers.

I'm lost for words, so so sorry for your ordeal. It'll be over soon and you can start mending nets. I do hope this is your lowest point and you'll never have to go through anything like this ever again. My thoughts are with you and I'm truly sorry.

"Sometimes God calms the storm...Sometimes He lets the storm rage & calms His child."    ? John H. Groberg, The Other Side of Heaven

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/show/160117

I came across that quote last night & feel certain that's what He's doing with you today, Nan.  You belong at dm's side today, and for what it's worth, you've got a bunch of Cyber-sisters there alongside you & dss'. 

My dm had surgery a few months ago & was very confused afterward, asking for my dad who'd been deceased 20 years.   When the dr. was told, he immediately took her off whatever pain meds she was getting.  It wasn't an immediate change, but it certainly helped.  Sending love & prayers to you, & dm~

Quote from: nanjojan on November 05, 2011, 07:56:54 AM
Well the day is here. I received a phone at 6 am from my DM who is confused again today. I am frustrated with the doctors for not knowing what is causing this. Yesterday she was good, maybe today she is protecting herself somehow from not remembering it is her last grand daughters wedding to which she is not attending...not because she was not invited nor doesn't want too but because she was standing by side and disagreed with my daughters decision. I cannot wait for tomorrow to come.

You and your mother are in my thoughts.  I hope they find out soon, so frustrating to not know why.

Dear Nan, the day is dawning on Sunday, I hope where ever you live you see the sun and the light of a new day! Sending you a big cyber hug from one of your many "cyber-sisters"! You made it through! :)

Nan_
I hope you'll consider closing this thread and moving on with life now that the wedding has passed.  Consider starting another one just about helping your mom recover.  We'll all be there to cheer you on!

Nan- as a personal caregiver for the elderly, I can tell you that what your DM is experiencing is normal.
Rose- absolutely love the quote
Ladies- my little lady broke her hip, so have been running between hosp. and home to care for both my clients. Your all in my thoughts just don't have time to read or post right now. thoughtfully B

Nan-thinking about you and your mom and that you did make it through.  I agree that you need to move on from this-at your own pace however.  We all grieve differently(and it is a loss for you).  I disagree with telling or even suggesting that you start a new thread instead of this one.  Maybe in addition, but I for one am going to be rooting you on as you gain strength from this, as will the others here.  I want to see the updates.  We will help keep you moving along, but it might be 1 step forward, 3 steps back for a while.  God bless.  C

Quote from: nanjojan on November 05, 2011, 07:56:54 AM
Well the day is here. I received a phone at 6 am from my DM who is confused again today. I am frustrated with the doctors for not knowing what is causing this. Yesterday she was good, maybe today she is protecting herself somehow from not remembering it is her last grand daughters wedding to which she is not attending...not because she was not invited nor doesn't want too but because she was standing by side and disagreed with my daughters decision. I cannot wait for tomorrow to come.

Brain fog, memory loss, after surgery are common.  45% of patients get this.  It usually gets better.

Find some very old pictures of your family.  Take them in to the hospital and show them to your DM.  I almost guarantee she will be able to identify everyone in the photos and she will remember the occasion.  When my MIL was 90, suffering from advanced alzheimers, couldn't remember that she had sons, we showed her a old photo album of a son's wedding.  She could identify all the people there, even from the back, even if she only saw the hat a person was wearing.  Those old memories stick around forever.  We had great conversations with MIL over those photo albums.

Hi everyone...I did post an update earlier but since I haven't had time before today to write...I am just reading some posts that I missed prior to my DD wedding. I did react too strongly about the divorce according to my DC. It was mostly about losing my family....the one thing I wanted in life. My children did not understand this nor do they now. My daughter became engaged in October 2010. I had a small dinner ...just my mom and her siblings to celebrate. She said she did not want an engagement party. Then came the first holiday since the divorce...Thanksgiving. My mom made the calls to my DC and all the kids said they would come for dinner. But newly engaged DD decided it was too much and called my mother a bully...who tries to guilt them into things. I got upset, as  my mother has done things for my DC that other grandmothers may not do. My mother is the reason my children got to go on vacations, had huge Christmases and birthdays. She gave them money for college and wedding dresses. She attended all soccergames even the rain and snow and track meets...and never missed any important events. She was the best grandmother a child could want. So when my DD's and DS said these things about my mother I defended her. This began the alienation process. No I did not see my DC for any holidays or birthdays. I sent gifts but no response. I did not find out about the engagement party until after the fact. One of my DS was living with me and lied to me where he was going. The ex lied also. I am not sure if he knew his current wife prior to the divorce but I do wonder. He married her after knowing her for only 10 months. My DC do not know her very well but 3 of them think she is just wonderful.
I do look back and think about some things my DD has said such as: no mother should be able to wear her daughters jeans...no woman over 35 should have long hair...you dress like Brittany Spears....you used to dress like a mom....now you decorate the house differently....it used to be country and now you are modern....I will never be like you...I will make something of myself. Keep in mind...I used to wear long jumpers when they were in style and started dressing more stylish...I do not dress like BS....  I dress stylish I have not had long hair in 19 years...and I could not fit into my DD jeans...I am not a size 4 or 6...I am a 10. So when I think back to what she has said...I think she has issues with my looks. I am not gorgeous but not ugly. My DD dresses conservatively..khakis...flats and shirts. I wear dresses and boots or flip flops because I find them to be more comfortable. I dress appropiately for 50 although I am told I look more like late 30's. I think this angers my DDS because I am 18 years older than my oldest DD and people have asked if we are sisters. I would think my DD would be happy to have a mom who looks nice and not frumpy. Their DSM is frumpy looking I do not understand. I hope this answers some questions that some of you have had. Thank you for everything...I really missed reading the topics...they are so helpful.

nanjojan,

You sound like you changed some and that bothers your family.  They will get used to it with time and realize you are just being you now and learning a new way to be happy.

As for the standing up to someone who is saying mean things to you, well I don't know why that causes problems but it does.  I took all kinds of stuff off my daughter but when I finally stood up to her, she hasn't spoken to me in four months.  Oh, well, it was time it stopped and the only way I will ever speak to her again is to see my grandson but she is holding him hostage to punish me right now.  Oh well, at least she is not bullying me anymore.  As for your daughter saying bad things about her grandmother, that was totally uncalled for!

I would not worry about your ex's new wife and the children acting like they adore her.  She is probably telling them whatever they want to hear and giving them whatever they want. 
That is so fake.  It will not last and then they will want their mother back.  One day they will open their eyes and realize that no one loves them like you do.