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Though the problem is really with DS/DIL, as GC are too young, this seemed the appropriate area in which to post this.

Some time ago, I posted on here about not bonding with GC.For the most part, I have accepted that my relationship with DS/DIL/GC is what it is--basically, superficial and phony. Since before GC, DS/DIL seemed to enjoy our company, wanted us in their(and future children's) lives,  I tried to find out what it was that I (since it seems DIL hostility  is aimed at me and not DH), had done, but got no real answer.DS admitted DIL was insecure around me, but for the life of me, I cannot fathom why,as I felt bonded and loved her from the beginning.  DS calls, emails, FBs photos, texts, etc. periodically---which is about what he did before marriage. I am ok with that. When we are together, which isn't very often, everyone ignores the elephant in the room, and pretends to be happy. This primarily consists of us watching GC play and interact with DIL. GC really do not know us, nor do we know them. To me, they are no more than very cute children, who are fun to watch for a short time.  I feel much closer to several other children who are not even family.

Yes, I still grieve occasionally for 'what could of/should have been", but don't dwell on it. If I could snap my fingers and make my expectations come true, I would. However, that isn't going to happen.

My question is how to deal with public expectations?  I know I shouldn't be bothered by this,but I am. Someday I hope to reach the point where I no longer care or worry about what other people think, but I am not there yet.  Watching strangers interact with their GC is difficult, but I tell myself that I don't know what goes on in private. The real problem I have is with friends. I have confided in two close friends what my situation is, and the fact that I really feel no more for my GC than any other child, and really don't enjoy DS family visits. Their reaction was to dismiss my feelings by telling me that I really didn't feel that way. This hurt and annoyed me so, that I have taken to avoiding these friends.

If friends who have known me for many years react this way, you can imagine how difficult it is for me to be around more casual friends and acquaintances when they gush over their GC, and ask me 'don't I think being a GM is just the most wonderful thing in life. "  I usually try to noncommittal in my response, but have a hard time, as I don't 'lie' very well. I am wondering if anyone else has this problem, and how do you deal with it? Is there some response that will convey I don't have such a great GM experience without going into details?

On the plus side, I once made some comment at a gathering implying that all was not rosy, and 2 of the 3 women there, replied in kind, so as with this site,  it was nice to know I wasn't the only one. In another instance, I found that one of the women went through periodic estrangements from her son and DIL. However, I realize that this type of response in general public gathering is not comfortable to most.

Any snappy one liners out there??

pam1, I think we all agree that most parents do the best that they can at any given time. I,also, thought that I was clear that I was making generalizations, but based on limited experiences, and with some attempt at humor. One has to resort to genealizations in a forum such as this,as well as in most discussions because to only talk in specifics would be prohibitive.

Both of my children were very intelligent, according to tests, genius even. However, they were still children, and as such, made  mistakes, needed guidance, and were not perfect. Today, I see far more parents willing and expecting schools to do what should be done at home, yet never believing that their children should be held responsible for their actions. Oddly, this is just as prevalent in the "better" neighborhoods as in "poorer" ones.

We can disagree on whether child should have been forced to hug GM or not, but fundamentally I think it is showing disrespect for GM. IMHO, unless there has been some sort of violence, out right hostility, or abuse, parents and grandparents are due respect by virtue of age and experience. By teaching child that he doesn't need to respect elders, you(collective pronoun, not specific) are going to reap what you sow.  We would not be here if someone in our lives were not causing stress, so perhaps your issues with your Ils cloud your perspective, just as my issues with DIL cloud my perspective.

Smiles, I thoroughly understand what you are saying. I still struggle with hugs with adults. No problem with children, but, as a dear friend who is a hugger, said, She can feel me tense up when she hugs me. I am just a bit reserved, and it doesn't come naturally to me. I don't hug everyone I meet, but now, I can hug those I know are receptive.

Oops, sorry. I did edit my response, but I guess I didn't save it, so it is a bit muddled in places   Fine example I am    Yes, Grammie, it is a fine line people who work with children have to walk.

What an interesting question. This is something I wonder about often when at the beach, and I see large family gatherings.  As a child, we did not take many travelling vacations, maybe 3-4. However, we did go to a beach that was 2 hrs. away with friends of my parents/children every summer.  The families drove down on the weekend, dads went back on Sun. to work all week, then came back the next weekend to take everyone home.

When DH and I had our family, we loved to travel. Much like Grammie, DH travelled a lot for work, so we had lots of frequent flyer miles, hotel stays, etc. In addition, we,too, liked to camp.As teacher, I had summers off, and DH was fortunate to have a very liberal vacation plan By the time our youngest was 10, we had been to all states except 5. We also traveled outside the country as well. There are many happy memories for all of us in these trips. We even took one outside the country with my ILs. It was wonderful for us.

Both of my children often talk about trips we took. In fact, DIL has mentioned that she is jealous of DS opportunities. Sometimes I wonder if that is part of her problem---but I digress.  DH and I continue to travel as much and often as we can. We have friends with whom we sometimes travel, and it works well. We agree to each do our own thing. If it coincides, great. If not, then we can share experiences over dinner.  However, we took a 10 day driving trip with DB several years ago.......never again !!  4 adults in a car for 10 days is too many!! LOL

While I don't feel qualified to give anyone advice since I can't solve my own problems, I would like to interject my opinion. As an elementary teacher, I have seen my share of these children who are not forced to do anything they don't want, 'talked to'  as if they were equals, not allowed to 'fail' or be wrong(everyone is a winner)---and it isn't pretty. 

First, I don't care how you approach it, everyone is not a winner......and children are the first to realize it. Praise becomes meaningless when it is given for every little thing.  I think we are just beginning to see the results of young adults who were raised in this fashion---entitled, unable to deal with life, no manners or empathy for others, its my way or the highway attitudes.  Yes, I realize that all generations have similar thoughts, and these are hard times. However, I don't think Depression babies would have behaved as young adults today do.  I have heard Boomers called the ME generation, yet they(we) have nothing one this new one. Yes, I realize that not all turn out to be this way.  Neither my DD nor DS feels or acts entitled, both are in 'giving' professions, but even they seem to find the things that DH and I dealt with at their ages difficult. Balancing work, household chores , life just seems to be so dramatic for them and their friends, whereas we (like Nike)just did it. Never thought of getting a sitter so I could go to grocery store because it was easier. I just expected them to behave. I even took a toddler to school with me, sat her in back of class with toys.

DS is very smart, always took advanced classes, was far ahead of classmates in any grade, subject, etc. for K forward. He was not athletically or socially as gifted, so we tried very hard to keep him with his peers while at the same time, challenging him. During a meeting with school officials, he was asked 'What he thought he should do' regarding his placement. His reply was 'Isn't that your job?"  Children want and need guidance.

While I agree that some GPs(and people ) can come on too strong (not saying you did, Grammie. I watched my Ps overwhelm DBs children who were not used to them,when they visited.), I disagree that GC should be allowed to chose whether to hug GM or not. I think you and DH handled it perfectly, although DIL could have and should have made it easier by a gentle reminder that we love Grammie, and she needs a hug because she is leaving. She certainly should have addressed the 'yuck' . Waiting until later does not usually work, although a discussion later about hurting feelings, etc. might reinforce the teachable moment.  Waiting does not always work, as they will have forgotten what it is they did.
A hug from a GP while in DMs company is a far cry from a hug from a coach in the shower. Have to really disagree on that one. Anything can be taken too far. Are we banning all hugs from fathers/mothers as well, since there are many cases of abuse from parents?

My own children delight in telling me how, when they were young and put in time out to "think about what they had done" that they just agreed with everything I said because they had no idea what they had done.  A hug from a GP while in DMs company is a far cry from a hug from a coach in the shower. Have to really disagree on that one. Anything can be taken too far. Are we banning all hugs from fathers/mothers as well, since there are many cases of abuse from parents?

I am really surprised that teacher hugs child. Touching children has become such an issue. One that I have struggled with, because with young children who are crying or hurt, your first inclination is too hug, or touch comfortingly. Young children also want to hug and touch me---especially during reading time--just as I had to learn to use gloves when child was bleeding, I have had to overcome that inclination as well.

As I said, these are just my opinions and observations. I seemed to have gotten carried away, sorry.

Sorry, I did mean to wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

Quote from: elsieshaye on July 27, 2012, 06:07:06 AM
Lillycache, I really do understand the impulse to help your son, and you've seen my own posts about my drug-addicted son and tough-love vs handing him money.  But, please consider that giving him money (IMO even by letting him work it off, particularly if you give him more than the commercial rate for a given job) is enabling his current inability to cope with being a grownup.  This has nothing whatsoever to do with your DIL or your feelings of hurt - this is all about your son, and his lack of ability tendency to choose to function as a child rather than as an adult.   
My parents loved me, and bailed me out of many messes, even while I was married.  All it did for me was teach me that I couldn't handle things myself, and that my parents outranked my marriage.   I respectfully suggest that you consider the kind of help DS needs in a different light - perhaps he doesn't need money as much as he needs reliable consequences and fewer ways to escape learning how to be a responsible, mature person who tells the truth to his chosen spouse and manages his debts and relationships.   KWIM?

I think this sums it up in a nutshell, very well said elsiehaye. This is exactly what my DM did with DB, so he never really faced up to his addiction and the problems it caused. While your DS is not addicted to a substance, you are enabling him.Many here are ''paying to see their GKs by biting their tongues or giving up of themselves"(myself included),but, by giving DS money, you are enabling him to commit financial infidelity, which could cause some very serious consequences.  If it is not too late, maybe you can say to him that you will loan him the money,but only after he tells DIL the truth.

If your sister feels like family should be there for each other no matter what, then shouldn't she be there for you....thus respecting what you feel and how you interact with DD?  I have to agree with others here, you need to take care of you, and set what boundaries make that happen. I had to do that with my DM, who criticized what I did until her dying day---yet would have denied that was what she was doing--in her mind, she was 'just telling the truth'. I knew I would never change her--despite what therapist said--did not want to cut her off(as so many AC do), so I basically ignored what she said, focusing on what was good about her, trying to understand how her life had made her the way she was---until I couldn't , then I would end conversation by saying, I didn't need this , I would talk to her when she was in a better mood. Sadly, our last conversation via phone ended this way. I grieved for her passing, grieved for the fairy tale relationship that would never be, but I did not feel guilt that our last conversation ended on a sour note.

DM also enabled DB who was an alcoholic. Despite awful things he did including physically abusing her, she continued to support, bail out, make excuses for, etc. him until he died. I think addicts of any kind have to truly WANT to help themselves, no one can do it for them. Until they do want it, and are really to put in the hard work that is required, no one can help them. Hard as it is to watch, it is on them. Enabling them just prolongs the inevitable---either they will seek help or they won't.

Not sure if this helps you or your situation, but I know it does help to know others understand, and you are not the only person dealing with this problem.

Newmama--boy, would I like you for my DIL    I fully understand and agree with all you have said.
I certainly don't want to change diapers, but fully thought we were there to help after the birth---not much help if someone is going to hang over your shoulder at every move, breastfeed, so cannot help. The one bottle that was pumped, DS gave me to feed so DIL could rest, she came and took both away. I think with her it is all a control/jealousy issue as much as a parenting issue.

GC is a bit older now, and I do get on the floor, play, read----not yet trusted to take for a walk 

Everytime I post something it does come back to DIL issues--rather than my orginal intent which was solidarity in finding other women who were not gaga to be GM. Several here put it well---I was not gaga to GM, but am now hurt that I can't be the fun one I wanted to be.

LL---wow, your story does mirror mine to a great extent. My problems with DIL started during pregnancy, prior to that we were great, so not sure if the parenting is an issue as much as we seem to be at odds. I know what she has done to me to cause my feelings, but have no idea why/what I did to change hers. In any case, it just goes to show what one friend often says---we are not nearly as unique an individual as we like to think we are.

Hopefully, my story will continue to follow yours, and have a happy ending. I don't want or expect to be in DS, DIL or GC life on daily basis, but would like to enjoy a visit every couple of months without feeling like I am walking on eggshells, afraid to say anything , or buy anything for GC for fear it is 'wrong'.

ROFL, Karenna---almost the same thing happened to me recently. DIL thought I was feeding GC something from DH plate, received chiding about how it would lead to diabetes---give me a break, really this super-smart woman cannot believe that a 1/4in. size bite of something is going to cause diabetes! Lucky for me, I was feeding GC a piece of fruit that she had been giving him all morning. Whew!!  I had also heard the nipple lecture, but I know that DS does feed bottles when DIL is away, so why not when we are there.BTW, only 24 hrs. give or take every 3-4mons. I did not know it had a name, though. Will have to prepare myself so I can annoy DIL by knowing what/why she is doing things. LOL

Pooh, again LOL---I would be the one giving the trampoline. I don't give anything anymore because I have been lectured about toys, never see GC in clothes I buy, several things I bought because they were on their registry were no longer wanted after I bought them, so I satisfy my need to buy baby stuff by donating to charity.

pam1 Thanks, maybe there is hope that I can bond with GC in time. Not sure how I ended up with this thread, when I started out just to say I was glad I was not the only one who was not warming up to GC. In typing these replies, I do realize that it has not so much to do with GC, much to do with DIL.

Karenna, Maybe my wording was wrong. I am well aware of changes in parenting norms, re: allergies, sleeping, etc. It is the manner in which she goes about them, as well as expectations I had as to family participation, involvement. Everything is timed--to point of looking at clock multiple times while wondering if it is meal time, bedtime, etc. Not being a very regimented person myself, this is very strange to me.

I feel if I am invited to visit with GC and am expected to bond, some accomodation should be made. I do not spend that much time there, so what harm is a slight change in schedule, or a bottle feeding instead of breast feeding while disappearing into the inner realms of house so we can spend more time together. I really don't enjoy being left without a 'by your leave'(explanation) for hours at a time. GC is not expected to fall asleep on own,or even sleep in own crib. My expectation vs reality, I know.

In addition, while norms have changed as to sleeping, baby's still need their tummy time for upper body development. GC did not like tummy time, so was not given it. No frustration is allowed.

There is certainly no abuse or neglect, in fact, I think GC might benefit from some 'neglect' so to speak. There is absolutely no flexibility. I believe I mentioned diaper changing, DIL watches over my shoulder whenever I changed GC----I mean really how much danger could GC be in--it's not like pins are involved. I can be trusted with sharp objects--my keepers haven't taken those away yet!! LOL I have quit changing or even offering to do so---just say Oh, think we need a new diaper. No point if she is going to stand there and watch....let her do it all.

Thanks to all for the welcome, and the knowledge that I am not an awful, cold hearted person for not being completely gaga over GC. I am so tired of hearing " aren't you just thrilled now that you are GM, being a GM is the most wonderful thing in the world, yada yada" that it is nice to be able to say "no, not so much", and not have mouths drop open. As I said, I know a good deal  of it is self-protection, especially after reading all that some of you have and are going through,but I never did anxiously await GC as so many of my friends did.

@pam1  Details of holiday event are not that important, someday I might tell whole story, but, at this point, I don't think it is something that can be fixed.

@ Karenna , I can accept that she (DS seems to be following his DF---and most men's--footsteps and letting DIL determine childrearing practices) may do things her way, but I cannot accept that I am made to feel like I am 'having supervised visitation' because I am incompetent( after all, she loves DS, thinks he is good guy). She can do what she wants, but if she wants me in GS life, she needs to back off, realize that if I change a diaper or wipe a face a bit differently, it is not going to cause irrepable harm. In addition to our backstory, this is another reason I am having trouble bonding with GS. While my own DM and wonderful MIL did things differently than I did, I would never have dreamed of criticizing or correcting them....just secretly laughed at how old fashioned they were, and went back to doing it my way.