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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: Ross99 on June 11, 2011, 09:07:07 AM

Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Ross99 on June 11, 2011, 09:07:07 AM
OP - your post could have been written word for word by me and my dh. Our dil is a true narcissist. She is accustom to being the center of everything....and chose a profession that puts her in the limelight continually. Early on, before she and our son married, the problems started. We were suddenly people who were "rejecting" her. We were suddenly terrible people whose every word was offensive and suspect.
We were speechless and blind sighted. We had never, ever in our lives experienced someone treating us like this. We apologized for things we had no idea we were apologizing for... "you know what you need to apologize for". Several "meetings" where we had to drive 1 1/2  hours to their home any time of the day or night to "talk" with no resolution on their part. (dh and I are not retired).
Fast forward to 10 years later. Son has allowed himself to believe his parents are awful people. We have no contact with our only grandchildren.  Ds and dil have no relationship with anyone on his side of the family except for a few letters from his grandfather. To preserve what sanity we have left, we simply assured them of our love and went on with our lives. We have no contact, and honestly, life is so much better than it was with them in our lives. Yes, holidays are hard, but we have a loving daughter and sil whom we adore. No grandchildren from them, but do have three grand kittens. Oh well.
I will say to date, we have sent birthday cards and Christmas money to the grandsons. Until this last Christmas, the gifts were funds added to college funds. Last year I sent checks, which have yet to be cashed. Hummmm..it's June. Should I assume they are shredded by now? ;-} what's the consensus gals, do I stop the cards? The grandsons are the innocent victims here.
So, my quandary is do I continue to send cards and gifts? I strongly suspect they have not received anything from us. Dil gets to the mail first I suspect.
Title: Re: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: luise.volta on June 11, 2011, 09:17:45 AM
Welcome. I think I would stop the gifts, at least. It is part of self-respect, it seems to me to pull back.
Title: Re: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Ross99 on June 11, 2011, 09:32:26 AM
It really pulls at my heart for our grandsons to think they have grandparents who don't care *guilt* and gifts/cards have been my way to show them our love and care. I guess the checks not being cashed was a pretty clear signal they arent getting them anyway. So is the guilt not justified?
Title: Re: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: pam1 on June 11, 2011, 09:33:56 AM
Welcome Ross99 :)

If you haven't already done so, please read the Forum Agreement in the category Open Me First.  We ask all new members to do so not b/c there is anything wrong with your post.

If you've noticed your post is in another thread it is because I felt it deserved it's own.

Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: pam1 on June 11, 2011, 09:36:42 AM
IMO, I don't think you have any reason to feel guilty about grandsons possibly not receiving cards or money. 

Another way to look at it as a parent myself, I do not allow DD to have gifts from people who do not have a relationship with me or her.  I think it sends the wrong message for little ones and one I'm not willing to support for my own child.  Just my thoughts
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: lancaster lady on June 11, 2011, 09:47:23 AM
Hello Ross and welcome .....
I would perhaps put funds into a college account , or trust account for when they are older .
I'm sure they would welcome the money when they are needing it most .
Also when they are of age , who knows they might seek out the GP's they weren't allowed to meet .
We don't know why people freeze out families once they are a unit .Some just like total control
without any outside influences.
On this forum we often stop asking why when nothing makes sense .
If it were my grandchildren , I hope some day they would want to meet me .
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Pen on June 11, 2011, 09:58:09 AM
Welcome, Ross99.

It's still baffling to me that one person can decide how it's going to be and everyone else has to abide. I cannot imagine having that much power! As you said, Ross99, the children are the innocent victims. Unless your DS steps up things are not likely to change.

That said, I do understand that some ILs/GPs are sleazy, rotten, criminal dirtbags, perhaps...but from what you've told us you've gone out of your way to accomodate your DIL and you & DH are decent people. After all this time on the site I still don't get it. My DH & I were suddenly shunned for no reason, by DIL's own admission, and that's when I searched for help, eventually finding this site.

It's time for the gifts to stop, but do think about keeping a scrapbook for your GC. When they are older and decide to seek you out, you can show them that indeed you've been thinking of them all these years. You could also put the money aside in case you decide to gift them some help w/college later.

Oops, just saw LL's post - I see we're in agreement, LOL!


Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Ross99 on June 11, 2011, 09:59:58 AM
Thank you Lancaster. I do think about the grandsons looking for us when they are older. That's a hope I hold onto.
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Ross99 on June 11, 2011, 10:02:23 AM
Thanks Pen. I like the scrapbook idea. That's something I can do and feel it is a gift to them.
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Pen on June 11, 2011, 10:11:23 AM
I'm not a GP yet, but am under no illusion that DIL will be more accepting of DH & I when they do arrive. All of these ideas are being stored away in case I am in a similar position. My heart goes out to you.
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Pen on June 11, 2011, 10:15:58 AM
Oops, that would be "when GC do arrive." D-oh!
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: cpr on June 11, 2011, 12:08:55 PM
I'm sorry to say Ross, but after 10 years it does not sound as though a relationship with your son's family will happen.  I agree that you should stop sending the gifts.  It seems as though it is harder on you not hearing from them and having to speculate on whether or not your gifts are received.  I do not know how long it has been since you decided that it would be best to leave things as they are, but it seems that this is now a permanent situation.  I would not expect to hear from your GC when they are older either.  Yes there is a chance that they will seek you out, but more likely they have grown up not knowing you and hearing from their parents that you are just not part of their family's life.  Does your DD still speak with her brother?  Has she been able to provide any insight as to where things took such a turn?
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Pen on June 11, 2011, 12:48:51 PM
I find this hearbreaking. It's just not fair! I know, I know, life's not fair... but when you're delighting in raising your sweet little children the baby books don't warn you about the possibility of this happening.

I remember a neighbor once telling me she made pancakes every morning for her young boys because she wanted them to always want to come home to see her. At the time I thought she was kidding; why wouldn't her sons want to come and see their mother? It never occurred to me that my DS would be absorbed into another family and I would be an afterthought, if anything.

If only pancakes could help in my sitch. I totally get why DS & DIL would rather visit the castle than the hovel, but it still hurts  :'(


Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: pam1 on June 11, 2011, 12:57:00 PM
Awww Pen, keep hope.  He made some great strides lately, from everything you've said I have no doubt he will continue on.

I know you will probably not get the opportunity to ever tell him this but therapy sometimes does work.  DH found an awesome guy in helping him work through his families guilt trips and the effects this has had on him.  I hope your DIL will one day get it, money isn't everything and doesn't make the quality of relationship any better.  I feel very sorry for her in being raised this way.
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Pen on June 11, 2011, 01:30:48 PM
Thanks, Pam..I'm not feeling very sorry for her today, LOL! I'm kinda feeling sorry for myself  :'(

Pity, Party of One...
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Ross99 on June 11, 2011, 03:48:30 PM
CPR- no, our daughter was the first person they cut off. Our son and daughter were very close growing up and I guess it was just too much of a threat to the dil.
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Pooh on June 11, 2011, 07:20:07 PM
Welcome Ross.  Glad you found us but sorry you had to.  I agree with the other ladies.  A scrapbook, trust fund or bonds.  At least you would be assured that they would receive them someday if they come looking for you instead of wondering if they are getting them.  I have a GC I haven't seen in a year and a half, so I totally understand how horrible it feels.  Keep writing and venting here, it helps alot.
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: justus on June 12, 2011, 09:30:05 AM
Your description of your DIL reminded me of my SD. When she was an adolescent and when DH and I were first married, she would walk into the room talking loudly on the phone, then start talking to DH. The rest of us were just supposed to shut up so she could have whatever conversations she was having in peace. She was used to everyone stopping whatever they were doing because she deigned to grace them with her presence. She was the first GC on both sides and was the only GC and GGC for several years, so everyone competed for her attention all of her life. Enter me and my two kids. Yeah, that everyone stop what they are doing because SD walked into the room stopped very quickly. She found out the hard way that the world did not revolve around her. I held her to the same standards I held my own children to when it came to being polite and considerate of other people. It was a tough transition for all of us, but now she values my opinion over her family's opinion because she knows its honest and she knows whatever I give have no strings attached. She is still very self-involved, but she is a lot better than she was when she was an adolescent.

She used to have this ability to envision the world in the way she wanted it to be, and then persuade other people to play along. It was fascinating to watch. Those little worlds of hers all eventually collapsed and she doesn't do it so much any more. DD and I never played along and she eventually stopped trying to get us to pretend with her, but would come to me after the collapse to talk about it. DS did play along at first, but got burned so many times that he won't have anything to do with her. She used to go through friends like water because of this issue. She burned herself more than anyone else and I think she has finally learned her lesson at 26.

I bet your DIL grew up in about the same way as SD, because they sound like they are a lot alike.Frankly I am suprised that I was allowed to be a GM at all, and it is only because her M did some horrible things that I still am.

I would stop the gifts, but not the cards. Be careful what you write in them or it could be taken the wrong way. Just a simple "we love you and miss you" is best.
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: lancaster lady on June 12, 2011, 09:45:02 AM
It's hard to imagine that your own Ds would cut you off permanently , I wonder if he often thinks about his family .
I bet the g/sons also ask about you too .
I wonder what excuse she gives them ?
Another thought is that if they do go away to college , thats an opportunity for you to make contact , how you will
find where they are is another matter .
My DH still has minimal contact with his siblings , not through any trauma , that's just how he is .
However , my DD has always asked about that side of the family , and wonders how many cousins she has etc .
So never say never , they might be grateful for a loving granny someday ..... :)

Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Ross99 on June 12, 2011, 12:09:33 PM
Quote from: justus on June 12, 2011, 09:30:05 AM
Your description of your DIL reminded me of my SD. When she was an adolescent and when DH and I were first married, she would walk into the room talking loudly on the phone, then start talking to DH. The rest of us were just supposed to shut up so she could have whatever conversations she was having in peace. She was used to everyone stopping whatever they were doing because she deigned to grace them with her presence. She was the first GC on both sides and was the only GC and GGC for several years, so everyone competed for her attention all of her life. Enter me and my two kids. Yeah, that everyone stop what they are doing because SD walked into the room stopped very quickly. She found out the hard way that the world did not revolve around her. I held her to the same standards I held my own children to when it came to being polite and considerate of other people. It was a tough transition for all of us, but now she values my opinion over her family's opinion because
she knows its honest and she knows whatever I give have no strings attached. She is still very self-involved, but she is a lot better than she was when she was an adolescent.

She used to have this ability to envision the world in the way she wanted it to be, and then persuade other people to play along. It was fascinating to watch. Those little worlds of hers all eventually collapsed and she doesn't do it so much any more. DD and I never played along and she eventually stopped trying to get us to pretend with her, but would come to me after the collapse to talk about it. DS did play along at first, but got burned so many times that he won't have anything to do with her. She used to go through friends like water because of this issue. She burned herself more than anyone else and I think she has finally learned her lesson at 26.

I bet your DIL grew up in about the same way as SD, because they sound like they are a lot alike.Frankly I am suprised that I was allowed to be a GM at all, and it is only because her M did some horrible things that I still am.

I would stop the gifts, but not the cards. Be careful what you write in them or it could be taken the wrong way. Just a simple "we love you and miss you" is best.


Our DIL'S story is similar in some ways. She became the focus and great hope of her family when her father and mother divorced. He father is also a narcissist who had a profession where he was the focus of all. He had multiple affairs, and it became known. That ended his ability to continue in his profession. The family was very publically shamed. Our DIL was 18 at the time. She came to the rescue of her shamed family and took on the same profession. During one of the "meetings" I tentatively broached how traumatic that whole ordeal must have been. She tossed it off as a non-event and she was "over that" a long time ago. I don't think so little Missy. I think she is one confused, needy, hurting person. So, probably one way for her to keep the world from hurting her is to stay in control. When she couldn't control her husbands family, we were written off. It was far too threatening.
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Blind-Sided on June 13, 2011, 09:32:08 PM
Ross ~ I have to agree.  Stop with the gifts.  I sent gifts to my granddaughter.  Although my son told me she got them and liked them, I often wonder how often the gift stayed around until it conveniently disappeared.  I've decided to set the money aside that I would spend on the gifts and put it into an account for her.  You might consider doing that.  Also, you might also consider writing cards to the grandkids and setting them aside for them to have when they are old enough to  receive them independent of their mother.  I had a friend whose father got custody because her mother had an alcohol addiction.  Her mother overcame her addiction, got on her feet, got a job and got involved with volunteer work.  Despite that, my friend's step-mother did everything to destroy the mother-child relationship by destroying cards that came for her and discarding gifts.  Wisely, my friend's mother kept a journal where she wrote to her daughter over the years.  After my friend came of age, she looked for and found her mother.  They quickly bonded and had a great relationship.  Her mother died 3 years later, but before she did, she got the journal.  Remember that kids can only be influenced so far by their parents and then eventually they start thinking for themselves.  As in my case with my granddaughter, I look forward to the day when she seeks me out to find out for herself who I am.  Trust me, she will as your grand kids will do for you.  All you have to do is stay healthy and look toward the day when that happens. 
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: lcollins on June 15, 2011, 08:57:16 AM
i would stop the checks but not the cards, maybe you could mention that they checks have not been cashed yet and you are trying to figure out what happened to them
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Sassy on June 15, 2011, 04:47:42 PM
QuoteHe father is also a narcissist who had a profession where he was the focus of all.  He had multiple affairs, and it became known. That ended his ability to continue in his profession. The family was very publically shamed. Our DIL was 18 at the time. She came to the rescue of her shamed family and took on the same profession. During one of the "meetings" I tentatively broached how traumatic that whole ordeal must have been. She tossed it off as a non-event and she was "over that" a long time ago.

I am trying to imagine the context where bringing up this shameful past of her father's affairs with DIL could have a positive outcome. 
Title: Re: Does anyone else just get tired?
Post by: Ross99 on June 15, 2011, 04:55:40 PM
The context in which it was brought up was not inappropriate. The affairs weren't mentioned, just that we realized the impact of the divorce and assured her our compassion for her. It definitely was not talked about in a denigrating manner. She shared the history early on.