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"Welcome to WiseWomenUnite.com -- When adult children marry and leave home, life can sometimes get more complex instead of simpler.  Being a mother-in-law or daughter-in-law can be tough.  How do we extend love and support to our mothers-in-law, adult children, daughters-in-law, sons-in-law, and grandchildren without interfering?  What do we do when there are communication problems?  How can we ask for help when we need it without being a burden?  And how do our family members feel about these issues?  We invite you to join our free forum, read some posts... and when you're ready...share your challenges and wisdom."


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Messages - Karenna

1
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: B-day Epic Fail
October 08, 2012, 08:14:12 AM
It's okay to still be upset - it's only Monday, and the hurt is still fresh.  Go ahead and grieve - get all the feelings out.

Reach for the big girl panties if you're still breaking down in a month.  (Or whatever length of time feels appropriate.)
2
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: B-day Epic Fail
October 08, 2012, 07:51:50 AM
I apologise - I read the original post too fast, and assumed it was your son's birthday because he picked the venue.  In that case, yes, you are quite correct to be upset at how your husband was treated.

Still, I'd hold your DS more responsible than DIL for this - especially the lack of gift or other acknowledgement.  (It would be silly for him to expect DIL to shop for someone she's not getting along with - that's likely to result in a bad gift and resentful wife.) 

And I would think about stepping back from DS regardless.  It's not to punish him, it's to give you time to heal.  No need for a big announcement likely to trigger another argument and give DIL the satusfaction of "winning", unless you need to clear the air for your own sake. 

Best wishes!
3
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: B-day Epic Fail
October 08, 2012, 07:35:40 AM
Pen, if it makes you feel better, I suspect that DIL and GKs probably did have a gift for him - and probably a whole separate celebration.

I cannot believe that a wife who is so concerned with "winning" would let her MIL get away with hosting the only birthday party.

So, focus on how she treated you, and don't fall into the trap of getting upset on your son's behalf.  He's a grown man and can handle his own marriage.

And if he's in the middle, it's because he chooses to be there.  If he's a submissive people-pleaser, that's his own choice. 

He won't change until he's ready - and why should he?  His mother and his wife are both fighting to prove they love him more.  You're both lavishing him in sympathy and affection when you get the chance.  Neither of you is blaming him for his part in this dynamic.  He gets to be the victim.

It might help to take a giant step back from DS.  That will remove a lot of pressure from him, and give you time and space to think about what you need from this relationship.  If you don't formally announce it, but just fade back a bit, DIL will not think she's "won." Her resentment will keep her occupied until the time, months or years from now, when she realises she can't point to any recent examples of (meddling / bullying / whatever she usually accuses you of.)
4
I understand, believe me.  She's wrong, and blaming you isn't fixing her problems either.  But that's no reason you have to slip into the same self-defeating mindset that she has.

Sending you strength!
5
I can't claim credit for the idea, as it was my therapist's suggestion.  You can substitute whatever other relationship seems good to you.

Best wishes!
6
One thing that helped me stop responding emotionally was to ask myself, "How would I react if a co-worker did [whatever hurtful thing DS had done]?"

* Co-worker was invited to Thanksgiving, but called to cancel 45 minutes before the meal I'd spent all morning making?  Thank him for the heads-up, and eat cheerfully with whoever else arrived.

* Co-worker didn't invite me to his son's fourth birthday party?  Shrug and send a small gift to the kid.

* Co-worker had a fight with his wife and is venting to me?  Say, "I don't think I should be having this conversation with you," and change to topic.

* Co-worker is trying to start conflict between his wife and me, telling her untrue things?  Tell him that's unacceptable, and "request a transfer" - that is, stop contact with both of them for a while.

I picked a co-worker, because this is a relationship that has to have at least a veneer of respect, even if you and your co-worker are totally different personalities. 

At first I thought that I would only demand the respect given to a co-worker.  I gave up on demanding love or affection from my grown son.  But this has taken a lot of the strife out of our relationship, and somehow the love is coming back too.
7
I know it's tempting to blame your DIL for your son's depression, but you're only getting part of the story from him.  (Remember that when he wanted money for his speeding ticket, he crafted the story he knew you'd want to hear - that his mean ol' wife would yell at him if he 'fessed up to dangerous driving.)

Yeah, marital strife is probably part of it.  But if your GS has behavior issues requiring medication, that's stressful too.  He could also have difficulties at work, no time to see his friends, money troubles, lack of sleep, insufficient exercise, poor diet, a feeling of midlife purposelessness, etc.

You're not doing him any favors if you try to reduce all the things that are wrong in his life to the wife.  It blinds you and him to the other things that he needs to get control of.

I know it's hard to sit by and watch, but he's the only one who can fix his depression.
8
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: Roller Coaster
September 25, 2012, 09:40:06 AM
If he's a brilliant straight-A student and a good employee, then you won't do him any long-term harm if you stop paying for tuition and textbooks.  (And after the lease is up, I'd let him pay for his own housing, too.)

Yes, he may have to switch to part-time studies or withdraw for a semester, but he can explain during hiring interviews that a family situation or his personal economic situation demanded it.  In the engineering field, at least, a hard worker with decent grades is often preferable to an unproven kid fresh out college.
9
Grandchildren / Re: Not bonding with GC
September 14, 2012, 02:27:54 PM
For me, personally, extracting hugs and kisses from unwilling kids has never been the "hill I want to die on." 

For me, it heightens the rejection if the parent is chivvying the kid, and the kid is protesting. And then the parent is making a huge production about it, and the kid is kind of cringing away  or stiffening or ducking away from the kiss.  And then the parent is apologizing, and everyone else is looking on, of course.  Very uncomfortable all around.

On the whole, I'd rather get a high five or a blown kiss.

I do think that it's good for parents to insist that kids greet adults and make eye contact.  Part of it is showing respect to others, but it's mostly about instilling self-confidence in the kid.
10
Grandchildren / Re: Not bonding with GC
September 13, 2012, 09:44:03 AM
Sorry, Grammie - I was not trying to suggest that you were a danger to kids.  I was just sharing my best guess as to the origin of the idea that "you don't have to hug anyone you don't want to."

Pen, in the book De Becker suggests this rule because young children CANNOT reliably determine who is creepy and means to harm them.  Yes, they probably will avoid the weird guy watching them play while sitting in a panel van.  But most sexual violence doesn't come from strangers.

What about the overly involved youth pastor who keeps inviting them out for ice cream?  Or The famous football coach who generously runs a camp for underprivileged kids (Sandusky)?  Or their best friend's dad, who keeps issuing invitations for slumber parties?  Maybe they're good people with innocent intentions, maybe not.  But they are EXACTLY the sort of respectable people that parents often force small children to show affection to.

11
Grandchildren / Re: Not bonding with GC
September 12, 2012, 09:37:26 PM
Quote from: Grammie on September 11, 2012, 09:32:23 AM
. DIL followed behind him saying "that's okay you don't have to do anything you don't want to do".  Gee I can see that statement sticking.  Wouldn't it be nice if they would say this is the book we're reading for advice or at least discuss ideas with GPs rather than expect us to be mind readers then get mad and ignore us when we make a mistake?

I feel a little bit like a quiz show contestant while reading this thread.  I'd bet that DIL allowing him to refuse to hug you came directly from Gavin de Becker's book, "Protecting the Gift," which my DIL also read.

It's about protecting kids from violence and particularly sexual exploitation.  De Becker says that it should always be ok for young kids to set physical boundaries.  The compliant child who hugs on command can easily become the kid too shy to say no or too afraid of disobeying to run away when the creepy neighbor touches him inappropriately.

Anyone baffled by other seemingly strange parenting practices?  I'll guess the source if I can.
12
If 16 is a legal age of majority where you live, then it may be possible to contact him earlier.  You might also talk to a family law attorney - the initial consultation will not be very expensive - to get a feel for the best way to approach him.  You are not the first person to find yourself in this situation, and the attorney will probably have some experience with this.

Again, best wishes!


13
I would proceed very cautiously if contacting GS at 16.

First, are you 100% sure that GS is an adult in your state or province?  It would be a shame to initiate contact, only to have your daughter file a restraining order on his behalf (with or without his knowledge and support).

Secondly, you have no idea what stories his parents may have told him to explain your absence to date.  They may have told him you are mentally ill, dangerous, manipulative or dead.  If he's been told not to trust you, blindsiding him at school is a bad idea.  He will probably wonder how you found him and how long you've been following him.  This may feel creepy or stalkerish - even from a nonthreatening 60-something.

If it were me, I'd wait until 18 and contact him via letter.  Without dredging up the gory details, I'd say that I was sorry I couldn't be part of his life, but that I'd always loved and missed him.  I'd tell him that I'd love to meet for coffee or something, but would understand if he were not ready.  And I'd wish him the best, either way.

You might find it helpful to read forums or books about birthparent/adoptee reunions, and use their recommendations as a template for your own proposed reunion.

One thing to keep in mind is that, with adoptees, reunions are usually not quick or simple. Months or years may elapse between the attempt at contact and a response, and adoptees are often emotionally guarded at first.  They have to work through feelings of abandonment, loyalty to their parents, etc.  it is possible that your GS may have some of the same issues.  If he responds with silence or rejection, it probably has more to do with his struggle than actual dislike of you.  Give him time and space if that happens - his curiosity about his family will likely win out in the end.

Best of luck with whatever you choose to do!
14
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: Travel expenses?
September 02, 2012, 08:26:40 AM
And to answer your original question, for the general case:

No, neither of you has a financial responsibility for the other's travel, and neither of you has the right to demand or expect the other's presence.

You can choose to underwrite someone's expenses if you want to, but shouldn't guilty if you don't.  You can go into debt traveling if you want to, but shouldn't feel guilty if you don't. 
15
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: Travel expenses?
September 02, 2012, 08:14:16 AM
Pen, I wouldn't worry too much about missing it.  If you can't afford to go, then you can't afford to go.  Maybe you can ring them before the party to give your congrats.

If you really want to go because YOU want to go, not because you're feeling guilty, AND you think it sounds better than holidays with the children, then by all means leave them and go yourself.

I wouldn't hint around to SM for money to take them, though.  That seems like the sort of thing that could engender a lot of resentment.  ("She expects me to fork over money any time I want to see the GC?  She treats me just like an ATM!  Etc, etc.")