How is it possible that our kids can still tug at our hearts and render them so bloody? I thought I was over that phase.
I was almost rejoicing at my very small success. And to be honest, it really is very, very small. DS and DIL don't share their holidays or vacations with us. It is always with her FOO. Doesn't matter what we offer. Sailing in Greece, skiing in Italy, cottage in Canada, sitting aside the pond at home. And always an all-expense-paid offer.
So this is supposed to be our year for Christmas. I knew it wouldn't happen. Hasn't happened since they were married. They will travel abroad by themselves instead. Thanksgiving at her FOO. As a consolation prize, we were offered 2 nights/1 day the weekend before Thanksgiving. I jumped at the chance. GREAT! I can be happy with that! I accepted their offer.
Well, I just received an email rescinding the second night. Why does that hurt so much? Why can't I be satisfied with what I will receive? Is it because the rules have been changed again? Were my expectations too high?
Maybe, if you knew how they respond to your invites, continuing to invite them places is setting yourself up for a loss.
Do you know anyone who would be overjoyed at your offers? I know it's painful, but it is what it is.
I think you need to find some other people to love, not instead, but in addition. Love is available in all shapes and sizes, not just the kind that comes (or should come) from our children.
By this time you know what to expect, absolutely nothing. Just accept that they will not be spending any part of any holiday with you, surround yourself with new traditions and people who will give to you instead of just draining you. As far as the week-end before Thanksgiving, I would rescind the complete invitation, and take a three day holiday cruise or volunteer in a soup kitchen. Any thing but put yourself in a position of entertaining people who treat you so shabbily. What is it that Dr. Phil says - "We teach people how to treat us." If we continue to grovel for the gift of our DS and DIL company, they will continue to treat us like the ones who get the crumbs. >:(
I know what you mean Am. I feel so vulnerable with them because I love them so deeply. I still just like looking at them and hearing their voices. It really hurts. I don't complain anymore, and I never see them at holiday time. They seem to love me, but it just doesn't seem to matter to them.
So...I am sorry that once again you were treated unfairly and with some disregard. : (
Maybe we will never 'get over it;' maybe we just get on with our lives despite the unhappiness around our relationship with them.
My love to you....
Wow AM, I'm working on this very thing right now. It's difficult. I'm grateful we all have each other here.
Am- I have read a number of your posts - enough to know you are a solid lady with high standards - didn't try to be your kids' best friend - held your kids accountable (no underage drinking parties, no unchaperoned parties, etc.) good old fashioned standards. I find myself in agreement with you a great deal. I understand you routinely get slighted by DIL and DS on holidays. Can you tell me WHY? What led to this?
I understand you have good relationship with DS. Not with DIL. Do you have any insight as to why you are always slighted? Your insights could be helpful to me.
Did they say WHY they are cutting the visit from two nights to one? Is it at all valid? If it is a lame excuse, I like Trying's idea of rescinding the invitation. Not going off in a huff and saying "don't come at all" - but maybe more like - "gee - if you don't have time to visit after all, perhaps I'll go to the beach with my friend Sarah who asked me to go with her that weekend. I had told her I couldn't because you were coming for the weekend - but if you can't make it, I think I'll accept Sarah's invitation after all."
And although you have a good relationship with DS - does he acknowledge DIL's shabby treatment of you? Does he stand up for you at all? Maybe rescinding the invitation would cause him to think twice before he lets her treat you shabbily again.
Can you talk to DS about it?
Quote from: Shelby on October 25, 2011, 12:07:45 AM
And although you have a good relationship with DS - does he acknowledge DIL's shabby treatment of you? Does he stand up for you at all? Maybe rescinding the invitation would cause him to think twice before he lets her treat you shabbily again.
Can you talk to DS about it?
DH and I have been discussing this -- and we both are of the opinion that DS is an enabler. He likes to act as a "protector" of DIL. We are beginning to feel that rescinding the 2nd night is entirely DS's idea -- that he is trying to protect DIL just in case she isn't having a good time.
As for why DIL doesn't like us, why she won't visit us, why we aren't welcome in her house? It still baffles me. Her treatment of us the two times we visited their home was rude and unwelcoming. Unwelcoming to the point that she would not look at us and not talk to us. Unwelcoming to the point where even DS was in tears. Unwelcoming to the point that she finally stated that if we were invited again she would go to a hotel. We think of her as a child in this way, even though she is a thirty-something with advanced degrees. And clearly DS also does, and he tries to protect her. I don't think they have any visitors or any parties. I'm so sorry for DS in this regard. He is a fine man, a gracious and generous host. He was always the boyfriend most beloved by the
parents! of all the girls he dated, because he was always in the kitchen with the adults, discussing the affairs of the world with them as he helped out with the dishes. He is extremely bright, very funny, very social, and will probably end up as a CEO before he is 40.
So this is what we did about his email. I responded to him that I wasn't accepting the situation -- that I was hoping he and DIL would be having such a great time by then that they didn't want to leave. DH responded that DS should plan to stay because his sister wasn't arriving until 4PM on Sunday, and DS's evening departure would only allow 3 hours for our family Thanksgiving get together. We'll see what transpires...
Perfect! Wish there was an emotion for clapping hands!
AM:
I haven't even asked my DS about Christmas , as I know where they will spend it , but as I have shared 4 months
with them perhaps I can't complain , which of course I won't .
Is your DIL like this with everyone outside her own family ? You say they never have visitors etc , so perhaps
it's not you personally ....just the rest of the world !
My own Ds is being dragged closer and closer to my DIL FOO , plus her circle of friends . so much so that he said , it
doesn't matter where I live as I have no friends anyway !
How sad is that ? When a few years ago he was the life and soul of any party , with many friends .
Why do they have to close ranks and ban all outsiders who haven't been approved .... :(
Quote from: amflautist on October 25, 2011, 02:02:29 AM
So this is what we did about his email. I responded to him that I wasn't accepting the situation -- that I was hoping he and DIL would be having such a great time by then that they didn't want to leave. DH responded that DS should plan to stay because his sister wasn't arriving until 4PM on Sunday, and DS's evening departure would only allow 3 hours for our family Thanksgiving get together. We'll see what transpires...
OP - I'm sorry you are hurting. I have empathy for your situation. I truly hope your relationship improves and you are able to spend more time together.
IMO, this is not a good way to go about it. The situation isn't yours to accept - it is DS and DIL's decision to do as they please. You and your DH telling them the above may be seen as manipulation and guilt ('but your sister won't be here! We'll only have three hours!') as well as a lack of respect for their decisions. I'm sorry but given what I've read here, I wouldn't be surprised if they cancelled. I truly hope that doesn't happen. Can you talk to us a bit more about your history with DIL? Why is she so cold?
Quote I responded to him that I wasn't accepting the situation -- that I was hoping he and DIL would be having such a great time by then that they didn't want to leave. DH responded that DS should plan to stay because his sister wasn't arriving until 4PM on Sunday, and DS's evening departure would only allow 3 hours for our family Thanksgiving get together.
I'm not sure why exactly, but this gave me anxiety. Like DS should arrive prepared for battle, if he wants to actually do what he gave lots of advance notice that he was planning to do.
I wish DS didn't tell you two nights, then scale it back to one. He sure set you up for disappointment. >:( But, he
is still making efforts to come,
just to celebrate a holiday with you. :) I hope DS doesn't start to feel like despite his efforts, and a 24-36 hour visit in your home, that he'll be disappointing you anyway. If the idea was he
supposed to feel that, so it will motivate him to stay longer, I don't know how effective that approach is.
Eh, we'll see how it works. DS and DIL are free to leave. DS knows that. Further, please know that we did not invite them -- they invited themselves. Folks, there is no stress between DS and ourselves, nor between DS and DD. The four of us all get on fabulously. We talk and joke and party. It has been really super, super, super for the past 4 years when DS took the time to visit one of our venues without DIL. He came because he didn't want to miss out on family fun. The stress comes when DIL is along, because she always wants to cut out and leave. So how did it happen that he invited her to his annual pilgrimage? Actually, she asked to come along this time. Maybe she's changing. Maybe she will actually have a good time. Anyway, if she feels stress, you can be sure that DS will whisk her away early Sunday evening.
So I'm planning on having a lot of fun. By myself if necessary.
DH and I have been discussing this -- and we both are of the opinion that DS is an enabler. He likes to act as a "protector" of DIL. We are beginning to feel that rescinding the 2nd night is entirely DS's idea -- that he is trying to protect DIL just in case she isn't having a good time.
. . . . . . Unwelcoming to the point where even DS was in tears. Unwelcoming to the point that she finally stated that if we were invited again she would go to a hotel.
[/quote]
Am - I don't know if your son is an enabler - but it sounds like your DIL has serious mental/emotional issues. Has she seen a doctor? If your son is in tears at her behavior - he is clearly stressed and caught in the middle. I do feel sorry for him - but he has to man up and either get his wife the help she needs - or stand up for his FOO. You also said she said she would stay in hotel if you came again. Did you stay with them? That was probably a mistake. I would never stay under their roof - but you should be able to stay in a local motel near them and have a nice visit with him, if not her. Heck, I'd camp at the local campground before I would stay with them.
Quote from: alohomora on October 25, 2011, 09:09:44 AM
IMO, this is not a good way to go about it. The situation isn't yours to accept - it is DS and DIL's decision to do as they please.
Aloho - I totally disagree that it is "DS and DIL's decision to do as they please." Perhaps that is what is wrong with some of the DILs that the MILs on this site complain about. They think they should always be able to do as they please without taking others' feelings into consideration at all. Narcissistic, immature brats.
Given DILs habit of spending lots of vacation and holiday time with her FOO, spending 2 nights with DS FOO is very little concession on her part. Amflautist is not asking much. She can hardly be described as manipulative. She and DH have issued an invitation. It can be accepted or declined - but the invitees do not get to pick and choose. Anything less than an enthusiastic, 100 per cent acceptance certainly justifies Amflautist in rescinding the invitation. Amflautist shouldn't have to be treated so shabbily - accepting crumbs. This DIL sounds totally self-absorbed and narcissistic. Amflautist's DS needs to either get his wife some medical help, or man up and stand up for his FOO.
But the idea that Amfl and her husband (who have received second class status while DIL's FOO receives all the focus) have to continue to take rude treatment from DIL just so nobody will think AM is manipulative is poppycock. To heck with what this spoiled brat DIL thinks. AMflautist, why not take your daughter and husband to beach, have a great time, and tell DS and DIL you'll see them when they can grow up a little bit.
QuoteShe and DH have issued an invitation. It can be accepted or declined - but the invitees do not get to pick and choose. Anything less than an enthusiastic, 100 per cent acceptance certainly justifies Amflautist in rescinding the invitation.
Shelby, amflutist and DH did
not issue an invitation. DS and DIL issued an offer to come. Since Amflutist gave less than 100 per cent acceptance (in fact, she told DS she would not accept his offer), my hope is precisely that it does
not justify DS and DIL in rescinding the offer.
I think I love you Shelby!
I appreciate your viewpoint, Shelby.
Just for the record, the first time we visited them (at their invitation)!, we stayed two nights. When DIL when into a fritz and locked herself into the bathroom, and wouldn't answer me while I spent 30 minutes on my knees in front of her bathroom door, I went to our room and started packing. DS, in tears, asked that we not leave, that we not allow DIL to spoil our visit, etc, so we stayed for the second night. Big mistake.
The second time we visited them (for a quick 30 minute breakfast ONLY), at DS's insistence because he wanted us to see their new apt., we got the cold shoulder --- leaving both me and DS in tears. There has never been a third time. A couple of years ago they bought an expensive house and immediately invited her FOO to visit. Six months later, when DS wanted us to visit, DIL issued the hotel threat. We have actually seen the house -- DS sneaked us in for a 15 minute tour while DIL was out. That's it. The full monte, so to speak.
I really don't care anymore. I am simply so sad that DS has chosen this childlike creature as his bride. He deserves a full partner in life.
Quote AMflautist, why not take your daughter and husband to beach, have a great time, and tell DS and DIL you'll see them when they can grow up a little bit.
I think the reason why not, is because Amflautist
wants to eat a holiday meal with them.
Being offered a 36 hour visit is not crumbs to be discarded. It sounds like a whole meal to me. In fact, several meals. Absolutely it stinks that DS orginally offered to stay two nights, but I'm not sure how it could be worth trashing the whole traditional family celebration because of it. This couple won't even be in the country for Christmas. They already have Thanksgiving plans (perhaps where they
were invited and accepted). They offered to come to an early Thanksgiving at Amflautists. She should, (and she will!), savor all 2,160 minutes of it.
Oh Sassy, we are not demanding folks here. In fact, we have invited all the young 20-to-30 somethings who live on our floor in this apt. building to drink some wine and eat Halloween candy with us this Saturday evening. (We are the only older folks squeezed in amongst a passel of young bright urban yuppies.) Maybe you would like to come too? You might even like us and our brand of humour.
OK, Amflautist - I'll say it out loud. Your DIL is a psycho. Unless you have totally distorted the facts, which I doubt as I have read a number of your posts and your are a reasoned and calm woman. Sorry to say, your DS will probably never be a CEO - because he'll be too busy babysitting his psycho wife. You can always pray for divorce. But silently. Very silently.
Pooh - I love you too. Sometimes I get tired of seeing all the pressure on MILs to tolerate spoiled brat behavior on the part of DILs. Yet we continue to put up with it. I was so disappointed my DIL never acknowledged the near fatal illness of grandfather of DS (my FIL - he's 96 years old). Not even a card. Even though she worked in the same friggin hospital where he was for two full weeks - she couldn't take an elevator to visit, drop off a card or anything. Not even a phone call to us to inquire as to his health. Yet some on this board did amazing gymnastics coming up with all kinds of excuses for her behavior. Those posters could be criminal defense attorneys. Ridiculous, convoluted excuses for a spoiled brat not caring about anyone but herself. Too much enabling, too much entitlement on the part of some of these DILs.
Now my son's grandmother - also 96 - has died. That was nearly 3 weeks ago. We are hoping DIL will acknowledge this death in the family. So far neither my DH, his father or I have heard a word from her. DS and DIL live across the country and were unable to come to the very small family service - which we totally understand. DS has been in touch with his GF about his GM declining health and death, DS was good to his GPs when he lived here - DS will also see GF over the holidays - so all was fine with that. DIL doesn't have to send expensive flowers or a big charitable donation in honor of her husband's grandmother's death, but we are hoping for a card or phone call to say -- sorry to hear that this wonderful lady who was a wonderful grandmother has passed on." So far nothing. Again, it has been nearly 3 weeks - long enough to call or send a card (as lots of our friends and neighbors have) and still no word from DIL. I am hopeful there will be SOME acknowledgement of my MILs death. My MIL was a delight. I'll give DIL a little more time - but I don't think there can be an excuse for DIL to totally ignore the death.
As one WW said - maybe it was Keys, or Doe or you, Pooh - I can't remember. - but one WW said there is a great divide. There sure as heck is.
Amflautist - can I come to your Halloween party? Just give me the address - and I'll stay for the FULL party! ;)
Wow, I think that is a tad harsh. My MIL has a severe mental illness which causes her to behave in ways the OPs DIL has -- locking herself in bathrooms or closets, meltdowns etc. But calling her psycho isn't the answer, name calling hardly helps.
I suspect that if AM's DIL had been diagnosed with a mental illness, Am would have shared that information with us. So presumably there is not a mental illness present. Just brattiness. However, recognizing the possibility that DIL has mental illness is why I suggested that Am's son should look into getting his wife some help. But it is not an answer for DS to fail to get diagnosis for mental illness, then expect everyone to be tolerant. Am's DS needs to get his wife diagnosed, then explain situation to his FOO so there can be increased tolerance (although AM already sounds pretty tolerant) - or he needs to man up. Can't ask for tolerance if he fails to get diagnosis/help for DIL.
Yes, calling "psycho" is harsh. And name-calling is not constructive. But treatment of Amflautist in past has been very harsh as well. And should not continue. And, curious how DIL tolerates visits from her FOO but can't even deal with a 30 minute breakfast with AM and her husband? If DIL has mental illness, she probably couldn't tolerate all the visits, travel, etc. with her own FOO.
However, I sincerely apologize for calling Am's DIL a psycho. It was not constructive, and since it would appear that DIL is simply an entitled brat, it was an unfair comment to all those out there who truly have mental illnesses and are trying to deal with it.
QuoteOh Sassy, we are not demanding folks here. In fact, we have invited all the young 20-to-30 somethings who live on our floor in this apt. building to drink some wine and eat Halloween candy with us this Saturday evening. (We are the only older folks squeezed in amongst a passel of young bright urban yuppies.) Maybe you would like to come too? You might even like us and our brand of humour.
Thank you for the invite. I would love to come!!! 8) I'll be the one dressed as Lady Gaga!
Amflautist, I hope you did not get that I thought you were demanding. I don't think that, at all. I have written about your son, and I have tried to imagine myself in his position for insight. I haven't written a thing about your DIL because I can't even begin to understand her. But I will say that, the more I read,
the better "just" one night sounds!
Please excuse me for a while while I think of a way to work the word passel into a sentence, that word is delicious! Yum yum thank you.
It's been my experience that those afflicted with mental illness are very private concerning it. There is still a lot of stigma surrounding it and what looks to a normal person as odd or even bratty behavior has a deeper cause behind it that is likely not very understood by most.
I doubt without a very good relationship that a DIL would reveal that information about herself to her in laws. And even so, this may not be the cause with amflautist's DIL but there is something there that isn't quite right. I wouldn't even call it bratty, just something not quite right with her.
Amflautist, IMO, with what you posted, I would not take it personally. I don't think it's about you at all, there is something going on with her and there isn't a thing that you can do about it.
QuoteAmflautist, IMO, with what you posted, I would not take it personally. I don't think it's about you at all, there is something going on with her and there isn't a thing that you can do about it.
Agreed!
Not taking her behavior personally: One of those easy to understands, but hard to executes.
Detachment from the unseemly behavior of others takes time, and lots of self-reminding, but it's so worth it. It has been my, and my DH's, saving grace.
I will state categorically than DIL doesn't have any mental illness. She just doesn't like us. We are poor uncouth academics. Her family is fabulously beautiful and rich. She is fabulously beautiful and rich. When we travel, we stay in student hostels. They stay in castles.
I honestly think my house is not clean enough for her. Honest! I think that's a big part of it. The rest I can't figure out. And I don't want to.
Possibly not liking us is a sure sign of sanity! (http://www.wisewomenunite.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I'd rather party with you any time.
Have you ever asked either of them what her issue is? I stand by my statement earlier as well - they have the right to change their mind about the length of a visit and guilt shouldn't be used to try and sway them. It'll backfire.
This level of animosity doesn't just come out of no where. Along the way something probably happened to cause her level of discomfort.
The longest cut-off I ever had from MIL (lasted nearly three years) was as a result of us leaving, according to her, early from a Thanksgiving week-end. It's a long story but we didn't talk for three years due to us choosing to leave at a certain time and her not agreeing with our reasons for leaving. Stupidest thing in the world but after the massive freak out she had I refused to speak to her until she apologized. She never did. But she did try and justify herself to DH one time years later.
let me add though - if their visit is making you feel stressed or unhappy, you have every right to simply cancel it.
QuoteThis level of animosity doesn't just come out of no where. Along the way something probably happened to cause her level of discomfort.
we didn't talk for three years due to us choosing to leave at a certain time and her not agreeing with our reasons for leaving. Stupidest thing in the world but after the massive freak out she had I refused to speak to her until she apologized. She never did.
Did you ever find out what happened along the way to cause that level of animosity and discomfort with you for your MIL?
I've found with some people, just not getting their all their way, all the time, is all it takes for that level of animosity.
I have - it took a lot of soul searching but I did.
There was the obvious - MIL was/is hugely overbearing. She speaks with all the IL's every day. They are all very happy and I really see nothing wrong with how they choose to enjoy their lives. But DH and I aren't comfortable with that level of involvement. Bottom line is we don't have anything in common with the IL's and have little to talk about with them other then plesantries. We don't agree on religion/politics/etc. So time spent with them has never had that warm fuzzy feeling. DH left home at 18 and finds he can't really relate to the lives of his family members who sort of took the same path and DH took another.
As a result, we didn't enjoy our time with MIL. So we were reluctant to go there vrs. spend time with people we had fun with (this is when we lived within a driving distance of them).
I'm sure our discomfort at being in their home was noticed. Sensing that we were backing away from the fold, MIL amped up her attempts to draw us back in - which only made us pull back more. When that didn't work, she got nasty. I never spoke rudely to her (worst I've ever done in 12 years is hang up on her one time when she was yelling at me over the phone about wedding plans while I was at work) and never have, but I know, years ago, when I'd see her getting annoyed at something we were saying/doing, I'd push her buttons a little and watch (smugly I'm sure) as she would explode.
What annoyed me so much back then (that thanksgiving week-end included) was that I was the only reason DH even visited his FOO. I would insist on it and make the plans. He wasn't really interested. He loves his family but he doesn't make much effort beyond cards and gifts for holidays. So here I was making all this effort to go visit his FOO, only to get snippy comments about our lifestyle or choices. So I stopped alltogether.
Quote from: amflautist on October 25, 2011, 11:32:00 AM
I honestly think my house is not clean enough for her. Honest! I think that's a big part of it. The rest I can't figure out. And I don't want to.
ugh - my DIL and son stayed with us for a week before they left town. DS came down and whispered, "Did you wash the sheets?". I had to laugh at how outrageously rude that was and how badly he tried to make it his own origination and not hers. (Of course I washed the sheets and everything else...)
My FDIL who is a sweet, sweet, sweetheart is severely allergic to dogs and since we have 2, she'll never come in till they are aroooing from the other side.
It does take the pressure to entertain off.
Quote from: alohomora on October 25, 2011, 02:21:01 PM
Have you ever asked either of them what her issue is? ....
This level of animosity doesn't just come out of no where. Along the way something probably happened to cause her level of discomfort.
Alohomora, my DIL told my DS that we hadn't done anything wrong, but she hated us anyway. She treats us almost exactly as AM's DIL treats her, except for the locking in the bathroom thing. Nothing we have or do or talk about is acceptable. We pale in comparison to her FOO, and DS is rapidly being absorbed into his shiny new family. Hurts like heck.
We need to acknowledge that sometimes there isn't a cause for a person's animosity. I mean, people who committ hate crimes usually don't have a logical explanation either.
I often wonder what became of my strong DS ? To now be led like a puppy on a leash . It's his life , but how long will he be happy being lead ? I am having dreams of a split , no not wishful thinking , just another concern .
Lancaster -- so what's wrong with wishful thinking?
Pen - so sorry you get the same treatment Am's DIL gives her. It is puzzling and hurtful. Being new here, I don't have the history a lot of you do, so I skimmed some of your early posts. We've been MILs about the same length of time. You mentioned the economic disparity between your DS FOO and DIL's FOO. If she bases her judgments on that sort of thing, she is indeed a very shallow person, and hopefully your son, having been raised with good values, will eventually see through her. As I said to Lancaster, I don't see anything wrong with a little wishful thinking. Silent, of course, but why not enjoy a little fantasy.
On the money thing - I have never wanted or needed anything I couldn't buy. Of course I have beer tastes, so when you have beer tastes and a champagne budget, you have plenty of $$. If I cared about designer clothes and trying to impress others with fancy wine that costs as much per bottle as a month's rent in my college apartment years ago, I'd probably run out of $$ - but those aren't the things that really matter, as I'm sure you have known for decades.
I came from affluence and married a man whose family had no money - just good values, love and loyalty. I have been blessed with a wonderful MIL for 30 years - she died just 3 weeks ago. What a loss. I have always been glad that my husband's FOO was not wealthy, as it would have been that much harder to instill good values in our children if both sets of GPs were wealthy. Having one side of the family be wealthy was fine/great - vacation homes, nice cars, fancy houses, etc. But having the other side be of more modest means gave my kids a good perspective on life - and made it easier for me and DH to instill some good values in the kids. They learned that both sets of GPs loved them equally - that love had nothing to do with $$$, etc.
Frankly, I have seen too many families where both bride and groom's families were wealthy - the kids often are incredibly spoiled, take everything for granted and turn out to be a mess. So I was always grateful that my kids had two sets of GP who were equally loving, but didn't always act like money grew on trees.
Sorry to hijack this thread - but wanted to give Pen a little support - even though some of her concerns were expressed a couple of years ago and obviously - being a global moderator - she probably doesn't need my comments at this point.
well Shelby ,
To be quite honest I really wouldn't like to see them split up , as I want my GD to have a loving stable home ,
I hope they have a long life together . However having them living with me for the last four months , I'm not sure
that they have much in common and the 10 year gap between them really shows at times . I know opposites attract
and perhaps it's just me being an old fashioned wife , but my DIL from my view point certainly doesn't consider
my DS when she's off gadding about with her girly friends , week in week out .
I know the DIL's here might poo poo my ideas about cooking and looking after your husband , but after the end of a long
day to come home to an empty house , having to cook your own meal and iron your shirts before you go to work each
day is not my idea of married life . different if both worked , but when one is a '' home keeper '' while the other earns
a living , surely warrants some looking after . Are these old fashioned ideas ? Perhaps it's just me .
This is how they lived before they moved in with me , and perhaps exacerbated the money problems with so many
shopping trips .
Moving day is next week , then they will be five minutes from my DIL FOO , I might give my GD a photo of me so
she remembers who I am .......lol
First off, I really didn't read the rest of the posts after Shelby called them "brats". I was clapping and so happy that I'm not the only one thinking this! This treatment is so sickening I really can't stand it! Tiptoeing around, making sure to accept in the "right" way, be oh, sooooo grateful for a day here and there! Here is the first thing that went thru my mind after reading amflutist(sp) post. If I had(what seems to be "extra"funds) I truly would play a game and pay someone to substitute for DS and DIL for a time. (Don't jump down throat, I probably am crazy after many years of brats), adore me, go on these trips that people everywhere would kill for,post these fun adventures with "new" fam, still be nice to DS and DIL, and see if they start to pursue you and hubby. Bet they would!!!
Ha ha ha! DS/DIL stunt doubles! I like it!
Hey, I'm available for sailing in Greece, skiing in Italy, cottage-ing in Canada and sitting by a pond at home. I am nothing if not a giver, so if you need someone to fill that role, I'm your (wise) woman (united)!
LOL! I can dress like a twenty-something, and if no one looks too closely...nah, it'd never work. But I can dream, can't I?
Shelby, of course your comments and those of everyone here are welcome! I'm not anyone special just 'cos I have magical mod powers, lol.
About the wealth discrepency, my FOO had $$$ but didn't act like it. My first ILs had a lot more and acted like it (they didn't like me much.) DH's FOO was comfy but had a lot of kids to feed and educate, not a lot left over. They are super nice, down to earth. And now there's DIL whose FOO has recently become rich/snobby. DS is blinded by bling. DIL is disgusted by our lack thereof.
Oh, that gives me an idea....DH & I should poor on the "rural trashy folk" persona when she's around! Overalls with one strap hanging down, pigs in the living room, corn cobs & Sears catalogs in the guest powder room, a white lightnin' still set up in the front yard, etc. This could be fun!
Quote from: Pen on October 26, 2011, 07:34:25 PM
About the wealth discrepency, my FOO had $$$ but didn't act like it. DS is blinded by bling. DIL is disgusted by our lack thereof.
Oh, that gives me an idea....DH & I should poor on the "rural trashy folk" persona when she's around! Overalls with one strap hanging down, pigs in the living room, corn cobs & Sears catalogs in the guest powder room, a white lightnin' still set up in the front yard, etc. This could be fun!
Your FOO that didn't put on airs - despite having $$$ - I think I'd like them very much. Far prefer down-to-earth people over the pretentious ones. And while I couldn't go for pigs in the living room, what's wrong with Sears catalogs? My dad - who was raised in the country - always called it the "wish book". He and his brothers and sisters would pore over it, just wishing they could have some of the toys, etc. in the catalog. But now as I recall, they had another use for it, too, in that they didn't get indoor plumbing until after my dad was grown and gone. So I guess your DIL wouldn't have liked my grandparents, either. So you're in pretty good company! ;)
Oh, how good to laugh! Humor is so healing! If we can continue to see the humor (at times)eventually in these situations how helpful that will be! The stunt double comment made me pee pee in pants, sure sign of healthy, hearty laughter! Thanks all!
Pen you are on to something!
My dil was continually disgusted with me although my family had more $$ than hers. She had not a hair out of place and everything she owned was in plastic labeled bins that were neatly placed on racks...it was weird. She saw baby pictures of my naked son (the one she married) playing on the beach with his other naked buddies at the age of about 2 y.o. She was horrified. I still can't quite figure out why...guess I'm just ignerant.
Anyway, she knew all about the most expensive crystal, dishes, clothes, cars, and on and on. And they lived outside their means as a result. I just can't get excited about all that *stuff.*
It would have been fun to needle her a bit with holey pants and shirts too short with my belly hanging out!!! I was too afraid to lose them and my gc though. If I could do it over again ? .... f u n n y.... ;D
You guys are cracking me up! I can't get the "Green Acres" song out of my head now!
Pen, since Halloween is here there should be plenty of stores with the black mouth paint to black out some of your teeth! Hahaha
I can relate, my FOO is an older east coast "wealthy" family. But you'd never know by looks, everyone drives normal cars, live in houses that accomodate the members needed to live there. No flashy vacations or gifts. Kids are expected to work their way through college (parents will help some) and expect to buy their own cars, so there are some beaters in the driveway LOL.
DHs FOO is also recently wealthy and it shows. It's embarrassing to me, they don't give anything without making a big production out of it. They buy and buy just tons of stuff for.....well, I don't quite know. Guess b/c they can do it. And the airs..oh my, since they've never been specifically told anything about my FOO's financials they assume they are dirt poor, country folk.
Quite funny sometimes
I have the FOO that grew up dirt poor and then did all right for themselves as they got older. They worked hard for everything they have and now have a huge, gorgeous, log home...nice cars, etc. To look at their house and things, you can tell they have money. But then Mom comes out in her denim shorts, faded 1987 t-shirt and barefoot, running around back of this gorgeous home, to the 1/2 acre garden behind it to pick green beans to can......Lol. She made us work for everything we got to.
Then my Ex's family live in nice homes, have nice things, are pretentious and nose in the air, but yet are in debt on credit cards up to their eyeballs and just putting on the show and make average money.
Then my DIL's family lives in a small house, goats out back, old cars, not a shelf or table in the house that isn't holding hundreds of junk things, and her father makes 6 figures. They still spend above that, are in credit card debt, put on airs but yet have nothing to show for it except expensive clothes and jewelry.
So my FOO are all very down to earth people but have really nice things that are paid for, my Ex's side have nice things, but in huge debt and put on airs, and my DIL's FOO are the only ones that really could have tons of money and still put on airs, although you wouldn't know it by looking at their house and things.
Hmmm....the two sides we have problems with are the ones that act like they are better than everyone else and put on a show.
Pooh, I would love to meet your mom someday. Well and you too ;)
She would love to meet you guys too, and would send you home with tomatoes, slices of whatever cake she had on hand that day and strawberry freezer jam! She's so funny. Well and me too!
I'm demanding a meet up soon. I haven't tried freezer jam but have heard it's the bomb.
She's an excellent cook. She could take dirt and make it tasty, but her strawberry freezer jam has always been my favorite thing. It is so good. If you ever get a chance to try freezer jam...it's a must!
What is freezer jam ? I make ordinary jam on my hob ...... hmmm curious .
It's a jam that's not cooked. Basically, it's fruit and sugar mashed together, then she boils the pectin and water to melt it, then pours it over and stirs it together. You put it in little plastic containers (like small butter size) and let it sit up for a day, then it stores in the freezer. Because it's not cooked, the fruit tastes so much fresher in my opinion.
Be sure and bring enough to Am's Halloween party that we each get to take a jar home. :)
On it! Just need a head count!
Interesting thread, and sorry about your problem Amflautist. I was surprised to read that some women here advised to stay in a motel and not in the house of DS and DIl when visiting. If the house is too small I can see the point but if there is a guest room than why should that be necessary if it's only for two nights?
My own totally rhetorical question is; Why do our DS fall for women and their FOO who in our eyes are so different to us? It's been a mystery to me ever since my DS got hitched? He used to be happy with the way he was brought up etc. he said so many times and we felt secure in his love for us. Now we have morphed into villains in the piece and have done everything wrong in his upbringing and doing everything wrong now. He claims not to have any memories of his childhood any more and he is so angry. Total mistery and, yes, very painful to me and DH. Did we and our ways of doing things have so little impact in the face of choosing a life? Ii'm gobsmacked by this situation. I'm not for one moment saying that our children should be carbon copies of us.They should revolt and question our beliefs etc. but to turn into the completely different direction seems strange. Sometimes I think also that it is early days and in years to come he may come back to us so I live in hope which keeps me going.
On a more positive note: My kitchen is clean enough to be healthy and dirty enough to be happy, that should be our motto and blow DILs and her FOO who have different standards. :)
Quote from: chelmsford36 on October 27, 2011, 11:17:06 AM
Interesting thread, and sorry about your problem Amflautist. I was surprised to read that some women here advised to stay in a motel and not in the house of DS and DIl when visiting. If the house is too small I can see the point but if there is a guest room than why should that be necessary if it's only for two nights?
I would not be comfortable as a houseguest in the home of DIL who has rebuffed our attempts at inclusion/friendship. Why subject myself to that? Even though it is also DS's home, I think it better to stay in a motel and not see them 24/7. Heck, as some of you know from my very first post, DH and other sons will be going near DS and DIL's area soon for hiking trip. Even though our cabin is 10 minutes from DS and DIL's place, and we are renting it as we have in past years, I am not even going on the trip. Nothing to be gained by my making the trip. So I'll let the guys go stag.
Honestly, I prefer staying in hotels when I visit, especially if there is any tension in the relationship. It gives both of us a chance to retreat a little overnight and regroup, and demonstrates that I respect them enough to not assume I'm entitled to stay there. The other aspect is, I really dislike having people stay at my place, no matter who they are, even if there's no tension. I have had the occasional very good friend crash on my couch, but it makes me very uncomfortable and I have intentionally set up my home so that there really isn't any space for people to stay.
Shelby, I was wondering if that had come and gone. They're in CO? Lots of snow on the ground there.
Doe - no the trip has not happened yet, but it won't be in CO - further west.
This is an interesting point and reflects the dilemma I'm in at the moment. My situation is that I will be visiting my DS, DIL and GK for four days in November. They've just moved into a new home with a guest room. Now our relationship has not been that good before I left but I wanted to see the GK for a short time before DH and I are going on our Christmas holiday to New Zealand. I have a very good old friend who lives only a few miles away from DS and family. She would be over the moon if I stayed with her. I must add that my DS does not like her at all. I think for my own sanity it would be really good if I stayed with the friend, caught up with her news and maybe comfort her a bit (she just lost her beloved dog), but I'm afraid that might be seen by the family that I don't care about them. I'm only staying four days before I vanish into the sun and then I won't be with them over night either. I don't have a car so I will be dependent on lifts from either DS or friend. What is there to do? It's a real dilemma and if I did stay with the friend I wouldn't know how to tell the family. Ouch! >:(
Thanks for reading WW!
you know Chelms ....we are always worried what ''they'' will think . Well it's time we did what ''we'' are comfortable with .
We cannot , as time goes on, live our life how we think others want us to live .
If you would rather stay with a friend , you do it ! If your DS doesn't like her , that's his problem , he's not staying with
her .
Your family are very fortunate that you want to see them before you go on holiday , sounds different eh?
Rather than , I wonder if they will let me visit before I go on holiday .
We as parents are usually submissive , so much so it's painful , just to see our beloved families .
I for one have done enough bending over backwards to accommodate this family. My DD is always on at me not to
change ....'It's all about them !'' is her favourite saying , and she's right .
So do what's right for you , and enjoy your wonderful holiday in NZ , you lucky thing !
Quote from: chelmsford36 on October 27, 2011, 11:33:36 PM
This is an interesting point and reflects the dilemma I'm in at the moment. My situation is that I will be visiting my DS, DIL and GK for four days in November. They've just moved into a new home with a guest room. Now our relationship has not been that good before I left but I wanted to see the GK for a short time before DH and I are going on our Christmas holiday to New Zealand. I have a very good old friend who lives only a few miles away from DS and family. She would be over the moon if I stayed with her.
Chelms - without a doubt, stay with the good friend. Given rocky history of relationship with DIL, I wouldn't dream of sleeping under her roof. Why walk on eggshells 24/7? You can stay with friend, get a ride to DS house - or even take a cab.
I think 24/7 contact is a bit much even for MIL/DILs who like each other. (I firmly believe ALL young couples need their privacy) Your visits with GK while staying with friend sound ideal. I have a friend who does exactly that. Her son and her very difficult DIL live in my city. She is 3 hours away. She drives up, has dinner with me, sleeps at my house, visits her DS and GKs during the 2 hour time period allotted to her and scheduled by her DIL, then comes back to my house, kicks back and relaxes. Sometimes she stays a second or third night with me as well - but is never allowed more than one visit of a couple of hours with the GK. It's okay -- it works. But as hotels can get expensive, and driving up and back the same day is exhausting, this is a good solution. And she has a better time this way. So stay with your old friend! :)
Quote from: chelmsford36 on October 27, 2011, 11:17:06 AM
My own totally rhetorical question is; Why do our DS fall for women and their FOO who in our eyes are so different to us?
I have thought of that same question often and have come to my own conclusions. Not scientific at all, just my opinion...Lol. I think it's the same rational as "opposites attract". I was a good two-shoes growing up, never broke rules, did all the responsible things, did my best in school, played sports, in clubs, was very active in Church and other groups, etc. I mean, the model child. Now, I wasn't perfect and did some teenage stuff I shouldn't have, but basically the model child. I am also very artsy and let's face it, have a weird sense of humor so the boys in my school, that I hung out with, were basically the same type person. They bored me to death! Lol.
So when I met my Ex as a Senior in High School, from another school....oh my...he was the original bad boy. Total opposite of me. Irresponsible, failing school, party boy, long hair, ripped jeans, etc. He fascinated me because he was my complete opposite. His family was completely opposite too than mine. I had that "the grass is greener" thing going. Here was some excitement in my life and even his chaotic, horrible family gave me something totally different to see and participate in.
I fell hard and the first few years of marriage were exciting. The next few, I started realizing after we had two kids, that I was reverting back to my normal self and my raising and the excitement was wearing off. I needed help, to be a role model, to be responsible. I reverted back, he stayed the same. So then it became, I can change him. He can become like me and my characteristics. So the next few years were spent with me being frustrated, doing everything, trying to make him see the light...and he stayed the same. Between about my 7th year of marriage to the 15th year, I stayed frustrated with him. I wanted him to help, stay in a job longer than 6 months, be a role model to his Sons, mow the yard, anything. He didn't want to. I wanted him to want to. By about the 15th year, I realized that he was never going to change and I stopped trying to change him. I took the stance that "It was what it was" and that I was always going to be doing everything. I concentrated on my kids, their sports, my work, the house and we just kind of lived in peace and plodded along. I was exhausted. About our 18th year, he remarked that I had changed. It was kind of ironic that after all these years of trying to change him and being frustrated with him, now that I accepted it and had stopped asking him, getting mad at him and was just plodding along, he was now bored. I guess I had stopped talking to him much, because if I wasn't going to fuss and gripe about something he was or wasn't doing, well then there really wasn't anything for us to talk about. I thought that he would be very happy that I had stopped nagging him, but apparently, it turned out the opposite. It was two years later that he walked out the door with a 27 year old girlfriend, that is the opposite of me. She's trashy, irresponsible, a real witch that no one could stand.
Best thing that ever happened to me. I met my DH, who is just like me. We are two peas in a pod and it is our sameness, that is actually exciting and fun. It is exciting to have a partner, an equal and a best friend. I know longer feel like a piece of furniture. Which is how I felt for the last 15 years. He knew I would be there no matter what, and that he could count on me. He could use me when he felt like it, but yet I would still be there even if he ignored me for days on end while he watched tv. He knew, no matter what he did, that my marriage ethics and raising would keep me there and he could do whatever he wanted. I always felt like someone's favorite recliner. Dependable, reliable and there when you wanted something.
And my Ex? He has his perfect match, except in a bad way.
So, my opinion is that maybe they are bored. Maybe they see excitement in an opposite partner and family. Maybe they have "the grass is greener" theory going on in their heads. Do they love them? Sure they do. I loved my Ex too and no one could tell me that what excited me in the beginning, would drive me nuts later. No one could tell me that although opposites attract, that if you didn't have things in common, later you would have nothing to discuss. I knew better. I knew what I was doing and shame on everyone else for doubting me.
I like your story Pooh goody two shoes !
My DS was stalked by his DW !
She is 10 years his junior , young slim and pretty .she got her claws into him and she always gets what she wants !
She followed him around from club to bar to club , when she was just 17 !
What guy could resist ? I hope they can stand the test of time .She is 23 and still likes doing girly stuff , whereas he is 33
and longs for a bit of peace and quiet , time will tell .
I really was. I guess that's why I have so much fun now! Lol.
I too think time will tell.
Well, for us, DH and I are different, but not opposites. And we actually come from the same cultural background and speak the same second language. We're more alike than not.
However, I do believe that some men marry women who are like their Mother. I'm a strong person, just like my MIL. Unfortunately, she would have preferred for her DS to marry a meek girl, who would roll over and let strong-MIL run the show.
I hate to even say this but I think MIL and I may be even more alike than I'd like to admit. We are both stubborn and don't back down. In marriage counseling we were told that DHs only chance of staying married would be marrying someone like me or with my personality due to the dysfunction of his FOO. Go figure
My DS wasn't much of a "player" in high school, so I think he fell for the attention DIL gave him when they met in college. She was definitely looking for a husband (a close relative had just gotten married, they are very competitive.) Her FOO flaunts their $$$ which is enticing to DS. DIL is smart, feisty, not afraid to speak her mind...and I used to be that way until she came along! Hmmm...oh, and she's gorgeous which should improve our gene pool nicely, lol.
I honestly think DS assumed she would accept us as he did her FOO. It was a shock for him to realize she had no intention of joining/tolerating our family. He came to us furious about her behavior but we sent him back to work it out...we never said a bad word about DIL, to our credit.
Details about the Halloween Party:
Potion served 7-9PM. Don't let the old guy in the mask scare you away. Revellers in costume receive extra candy.
Edit: Link deleted at poster's request ;D
The official invitation
Edit: There you go AM, I hope that got it! Lol.
I dare, I dare! Great invite, AM. Have fun!
Am - and what city are you in? I do so want to come!
Hubble bubble toil and trouble ..........mwahahaha..... ......charging my broomstick as we speak........ see you there my lovelies...... mwahahaha ........!!
For a super-scary Halloween thought, consider that if you think your DS married a woman with a FOO totally unlike you and yours, it just might be that after you take away superficial differences, the problems arise because you are so much alike.....
Yikes! ;D
As my grandma used to say, "One of us should be insulted but I'm not sure who." My poor DS's ILs would be shocked to think they were like us!
Nah, because if that was true, my DIL would like me! :D
Update. I am reading, and taking in, all your advice, particularly about not putting pressure on DS and DIL to stay the second night. The problem I have been mulling over in my head was how to greet DIL, how to make her feel welcome, without accruing yet another notch in her belt. (She has been able to find fault with everything DH and I have ever done. She has accused us of loving our daughter more than our son. She has faulted me for not bussing her real estate agent on both cheeks! Even though we had not yet been introduced!)
But today I figured it out... I NEVER watch Oprah. So what was it that made me stop the channel surfing while I was slurping my noontime soup in front of the TV? I attached myself to Oprah's Life Class #18 [http://www.oprah.com/oprahs-lifeclass/Lesson-18-Do-Your-Eyes-Light-Up-When-Your-Child-Walks-in-the-Room], and I learned that what everyone wants is validation. That gave me the biggest AHA of my young life. I CAN make DIL feel comfortable during her hurried visit here. And I will.
Thanks for passing that along! It's a good reminder!
When DIL and DS visited, DIL went missing after one of their fights right before they were supposed to leave town. I continued getting things together for them to take on the road and when she came in, I reflexively hugged her and said, "Oh good you're back!" and started describing some things I did. DS told me later that that blew her away, the fact that I welcomed her back in the house.
Course, that was then.