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"Welcome to WiseWomenUnite.com -- When adult children marry and leave home, life can sometimes get more complex instead of simpler.  Being a mother-in-law or daughter-in-law can be tough.  How do we extend love and support to our mothers-in-law, adult children, daughters-in-law, sons-in-law, and grandchildren without interfering?  What do we do when there are communication problems?  How can we ask for help when we need it without being a burden?  And how do our family members feel about these issues?  We invite you to join our free forum, read some posts... and when you're ready...share your challenges and wisdom."


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31
Grandchildren / Re: Blindsided...
March 30, 2016, 02:26:37 PM
Oh, Muffin, this is so sad! Your heartbreak is natural as is son's anger. Anger is often a masking emotion they say. While it sounds very cruel of the baby's mother, we really don't know what the other side of the story is, we can only wonder and speculation just keeps it fresh in our hurt. I would say back off for now, put the photo away in a drawer and stop thinking about it. Let some time go by. We can't make someone be nice, be loving, or whatever. We can be loving and nice to them -- just hold to boundaries so that we are not abused or used. This new mother sounds like she wants to be in control and you can't fix this or change her. But do not let her know she has upset you because then she feels triumph in her control. If her goal is to hurt you or your son, she knows she has done so. Don't text her and if she texts you, take several hours to respond and respond politely and with few words. We can only control our reaction and thinking but that alone will change the dynamics. It would help your son if you could talk feelings with him, his feelings and just listen. Let him express his anger and sorrow so that he doesn't bottle it up or squash it down or drown it with alcohol. Sending you a big hug!
32
I think its our expectations and hope that get us into sadness. We want something and it doesn't happen and we get upset. Its human nature. I was reading in one of my textbooks about how women are socialized to be the glue of their family, keeping everyone together, doing all the work, etc. That made me realize how some of our expectations are probably cause we think we ought to do something or be something and then it doesn't happen. I got invited last minute to Easter luncheon but it meant traveling and staying in a hotel cause the daughter doesn't invite us to stay with her. We didn't go. Made up a good excuse and we spent the weekend cleaning up our current home cause we put an offer into another home. Kept my mind off the holiday.
33
I think I have mentioned that I went back to earn a master's degree starting in January. It is hard. I had to stop working because of how hard this program is and because of a family member needing caregiving -- so income is down. I was afraid to do this for years and years. Finally the light bulb went off or I finally heard the divine wisdom or something and I took the very frightening plunge. I was frightened and anxious before school started. Should I do this? Am I too old? Can I still REMEMBER things like the 25 year olds?

But what I learned is that I needed a new start, a new focus, to really get moving on with my life. Now I am too busy and too excited about learning to be mired in the sorrow of my alienated adult children, their father's abuse, etc. Today I realized I now have a life, a new life, and am getting positive vibes and communication from other students. I am not merely the sad mother without a mothering role, I am not the "out law" or the ignored or verbally abuse mother. In class today, my classmate in family counseling class wanted to work with me on our in class assignment because "you always have great family dynamics stories". I laughed! Felt good for once, rather than being the pitiful mother with hateful kids, the mean in-laws, being the ignored one.

I realize not everyone can or wants to go back to school but we can all find a hobby, join a club,  volunteer or do something new that brings positive people into our lives. Do something that brings us out of our comfort zone and into blessings from other people who like us and treat us well. It is far easier perhaps to stick to our old routines, I know how this was me for quite a few years as I am really an introvert at heart.
34
Welcome, "ok" and take some time off from worrying over this situation so that your mind and heart have time to let it go and when you come back, you'll likely have clarity.  I am sorry that your kids are so difficult and unhappy people. I often have to write down what upsets me and vow to not think about it for a while. I say to myself, I won't think about this for a week, and when the sad thoughts pop in my head, I say "STOP" and get busy cleaning cabinets or mopping or go for a walk or read a book so that I stop. The other thing I did to help me re-orientate my life was going back to school this Spring. I am loving it, I am busy all the time, and people in my classes think I am smart and friendly and the positive vibe is so much better than the way some of my adult children treat me!

You can't make your younger son accept that any of this is "his fault" -- it is too late, he is an adult now. You can't change him or make him be nice. You can stand up for yourself in a positive and unemotional way.  You can be logical, rational, but likely if the other person is irrational, they will only turn it back to how you are at fault.

Your oldest son sounds like an addict with an addicts way of manipulating to control and gain access to what he wants. Sober or using, he sounds like this from your description. Al Anon helped me when my ex husband was drinking and drugging and making me the blame. Al Anon helped me see how I needed to get out of the way and let him experience his consequences and why this was good for the addict. How my enabling and shame was not good for the addict.

You might see if Life Code by Dr Phil has any information for you that opens your eyes to your particular situation. I wrote a book report under the forum for helpful stuff that Luise mentioned.

I have three adult children. One is usually nice to me, one is okay but ruled by her husband and one is especially mean and hateful to me. The last one is now being super nice to me. If you look back to late fall, you'll see a post about how hateful she was at her wedding. I can't figure it out but I know it won't last. One of them invited me to drive several hours to another city to their Easter luncheon this weekend, invited last night for this Saturday, and once again, no invite to spend the night. And no response to my text saying we can't attend. All communication by text. Went last year, stayed at a motel. This year, can't make it due to other demands on my time & health reasons. Plus, I won't be in the same room ever again with my ex and the mean daughter, who ganged up on me at the mean daughter's wedding. I am not that stupid! But the mean daughter is inviting me for Thanksgiving already. (I accepted but am not banking on this and am not expecting to be seriously invited when the time comes, she will likely be  mad at me by then!) Also, all communication by text with this mean daughter. I am sorry to digress but am just running on and on to show you that many of us have problems with our adult children.

35
Congratulations, we are all very excited for you. When is the baby due?

Oh, I am sorry that this happened and turned out to be so disappointing. Boy, I wish I had a DIL like you, someone who wanted me in her life! (I only have SILs who are tied to their mothers who are overly involved so no room for me.) I can tell you really want this MIL to be appreciative of you and be your friend. She is missing out.

Your MIL is who she is and you are not going to change her by trying to include her or wanting affection from her. It sounds like you and your husband are still sort of stuck in wanting her to be different or hoping she will be different. Can you make yourself a little note and stick it on the bathroom mirror or in a drawer you open daily that says "accept people for who and how they are" (or something else similar) to help you let it go? Just keep rereading it till it feels natural to think this way.

Its easy for me to be a back seat driver here, but consider having a boundary with husband that he contacts his mother and you do not or only upon the rare occasion. Do not call her or text her until you can let go of the outcome or expectations that she will respond lovingly or with interest. He is the one she wants to hear from, he's her son. You may have to set boundaries next time, say "no husband, its best if you text her because you are the one she wants to hear from."

I did this with my former MIL, and it worked better that way. The person she really wanted to talk to was her son. And he could handle her better than I could, he just told her no when a no was needed. He didn't care that she was a problem relationship (he didn't like her) and I had to learn to stop caring, being a people pleaser, or wanting love from someone who could not give it.
36
Only you know this MIL and yourself best. I think what we are all saying is to speak up for yourself in a gentle loving way but with firmness, acknowledge her emotions, and have boundaries. I don't think having a confrontation with her will work. When someone is working from an emotional standpoint, they are usually not rational so us trying to speak with logic and rationality and arguing our point so they "see and understand" our point and then change usually never works. You can't talk to her thinking you will change her, you can only talk to her to do so for your own mental health. So letting go of changing her is first task. I might suggest you and your husband first set boundaries for her demands. The 2x a month idea is a good one, or whatever time your husband has. I would also guess she sees her babysitting as payment for your husband's time -- this is perhaps a natural reaction or thought on her part. I help you, you help me. And lastly, do not take so much of her words in the personal way. It is not meant personally, I would guess. I bet she is just "emoting" and is very needy or very manipulative. Sometimes they are the same thing. What I mean is that when she crosses over into action, it is most likely not meant as a slam towards YOU, she is not thinking of YOU. It is something inside her that she most likely does to make herself feel better about something inside of her. Perhaps she wants to be loved more, be the hero, be in control on something so she feels in control about her being a single parent, be appreciated, or focusing on your family makes her not focus on her family or her personal situation (deflecting). I am being really deep here but if you can try to understand her emotions and motives, you may have more compassion and this will hopefully allow you to stand your ground from a less emotional perspective. If you change your reactions, you change the dynamics. What is it that she triggers in you? My trigger is feeling put down or 'less than' - meaning when I feel this, I tend to get angry.

Be active instead of reactive. Good luck. It isn't ever easy.

PS: In some ways, this is like raising a child. They do "bad behavior" stuff and we just correct them. If they hit us, we have a boundary and we say don't hit me and we stop them. Perhaps thinking of her as a child and having the courage, boundaries to say we have this covered, thanks so much for the advice, we are doing --- blank instead. We don't hesitate to correct our children by setting boundaries but we feel awkward and reluctant to set boundaries with other adults. I know, I am this description.
37
Kim, I do understand how you feel left out and perhaps stepping back for a while as you said would be helpful. Doing so has helped me in the past to be able to let things go and see things from other perspectives. I like to remember how it was for me as a new wife -- my MIL was nosy, bossy and I was polite but didn't want her in my life much and frankly, didn't think of her much at all! My husband didn't want his mother around either. T that age, I also didn't want to see my own parents that much, couple of times per year was enough. And yet, it so interesting how my adult children (AC) who are married have MILs that are so very much into their AC lives, they see them all the time, the MILs know all about what is going on in the AC lives, the Mothers raise the grandchildren, and the MILs control everything. It surprises me to see my AC put up with these MILs, but frankly, it isn't my business. It has taken time to accept my "out mother" status and sometimes it hurts my feelings. People on this forum will give you insights, ideas, their situations, and it doesn't always work for the original poster. It is meant to give perspective. Many times we become angry when we have expectations and they aren't being met, this is called being human. Some here would say, have no expectations and you won't be disappointed.
38
My suggestion is to pick your battles and remember that our kids are not our friends. They do not want to be our "best friends" or see us weekly, in many cases. They have their own lives and need to learn to be independent and create their own families and careers, etc. I have a mixed bag of adult children, some are friendly, some are mean, and some are distant. Getting invited over after two months is better than I get! So I would say this is a good thing.

Your son did not tell you the truth about their living situation because he knew you would get mad. Our kids live their own lives and morals have changed. While I agree with you on living together, what we think doesn't change how they think.

If her family is all in their business, they don't have room for you to be all in their business. She will choose her family, this is natural, and your son will go along with her because this is his intimacy partner.

It is their wedding to make their choices. I was not included in the planning for both of my daughter's weddings. But they each had a (future) MIL that was chomping at the bit to control and plan and do everything for them for the wedding. So I felt one more mother involved was too many! I had to make my one daughter invite my sister, my only living relative!
39
It is very painful to feel not appreciated. Sounds like your daughter has some issues, real issues. If she gave you a lame excuse that sounds irrational, perhaps she is irrational and trying to be rational with her, never will work. So stand your ground, be proud, and let it go. Any relationship we work our butts off to get nothing back, is toxic or dysfunctional.
40
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: A dilemma
March 05, 2016, 05:55:33 PM
Reminding her of her failings is all wasted effort because in her mind, it doesn't matter, there are no consequences. It is okay to tell her how you feel, with I messages, I feel angry when you ask me for money.

I am going to quote something from an Al Anon pamphlet, not saying she is an alcoholic, but it is about enabling. Substitute the word Alcoholic with your daughter's name and see if it feels right.

"Sometimes a crisis - the loss of a job, an accident, or an arrest - can convince the alcoholic of the need for help. Coddling and overprotection at such time will not be helpful. The crisis may be necessary for recovery.

Do nothing to prevent such a crisis from happening - don't cover bad checks, pay overdue bills, or go to the boss with excuses. The suffering you are trying to ease by such actions may be the very thing needed to bring the alcoholic to a realization of the seriousness of the situation."

Parents can NOT remove pain from their children's lives, we all have pain and no one is immune. Life is hard, period. It is the coping and overcoming skills that we need to give our children, not removing the pain. 

Its hard and I feel for you. We got one kid cooking up a grandiose scheme right now to "fix all his problems." Trying to stay down wind when it hits the fan.

41
Still Learning's response is excellent and since PG gave us more information, I am going to add this. PG, it sounds like your MIL is sharing her anxieties with you sometimes. Because she told you, not your husband, that she wishes her son would be head of her household, this sounds more like anxiety talk. So perhaps trying a two pronged approach.

Use your "I" messages, "I feel angry when you tell us what car to purchase." (Not "You make me angry".)

Then try using empathetic responses to MIL when she shares her worries with you. "You have anxiety that there is no male head of household now that your husband has died." "Its hard for you to be mother and father." That will defuse it and then don't take it as gospel, just let it go. Like Still Learning said, you can put her words in the category of one whose opinion doesn't matter.

Sounds like your husband does care about you and he realizes his mother is a bit off and he knows she won't change. There is always a trade off in life and nothing is ever perfect. The trade off of her doing childcare for you is perhaps listening to her "problems" or her interference and suggestions. If you look at it that way, you might take this less personally.
42
WOW, PG, a lot of what you describe sounds like boundary issues to me and this would make me very uncomfortable and stressed out also. Meaning it sounds like your MIL has no boundaries and doesn't respect yours. I can see how you would find her behavior intrusive and competition for your husband's attention. I find it odd that she would ask your husband, her son, to be the head of her house with her younger children. Now, I don't know your culture, but in some religions and cultures, the woman is trained to be a follower and not to be able to function without a man. Your withdrawal has added to the problem by perhaps subtly telling your husband that he is not important to YOU any longer. So perhaps he turns to his mother more and more cause she is showing admiration for him. I'd suggest you sit down with your husband and have a heart to heart and confess all that you've told us to him. Do not attack him or criticize him but do share your feelings and how you have withdrawn, right or wrong, but you realize now this is not a good place to be in. See what he says. It is not appropriate for you to talk to the MIL because the chance it might backfire and turn into a hot mess are great, rather it is your husband's job to talk to his mother if any changes need to be made. If she is a manipulative person, she will turn this into how you are the wrong one and you don't need that stress. Please let us know what happens.
43
Sometimes doing nothing is best and I agree with Luise's post, your husband has to deal with his parent on his own terms and accept them for how they are. It sounds like a lot of stress in being held hostage to wishing for how things should be rather than how things truly are. You can support your husband by acknowledging his hurt and mistreatment and how this is reality and won't change --  so you two can move forward and focus on your own lives. Focus on the nice people who treat you well and creating a happy family.
44
We can't make people change.

We can change our attitudes, which will then change the dynamics.

This thought popped into my head but I don't truly know your situation. One of the first things you wrote about was the differences between you and the DILs, especially religion and your grief or disappointment over the adult children not choosing your religion. Perhaps this has been communicated to the women, perhaps in subtle ways you aren't aware of. Perhaps these women are just truly nasty souls, or perhaps they feel anxiety being around you because they feel that you feel they are not measuring up to your ideals or standards. Just something to think about.

I have a nasty, mean spirited, not nice son, son-in-law, exhusband and daughter. What I try to do is avoid them and if I can't then I try to be as nice and pleasant as possible by asking them all about themselves and saying nothing about myself. No arguing with them when they are irrational and illogical cause you can't force someone to be rational. Smile and nod or say I don't agree but don't try to out argue them. I try to take little gifts for everyone to sort of break the ice. Perhaps flowers to their house when (rarely) invited over. I gave all the mothers, bridesmaids and my (mean) bride daughter a fancy soap wrapped up at the luncheon on her wedding weekend, for example. This is what I call my most nice self and one that takes effort on my part. But don't get me wrong, I am not stupid and I know this doesn't fix the ugly acting ones, but it does fix my attitude and lessens my anxiety around them.

You say they all don't get along. What about changing the dynamics to where you are the one bringing up good things and praising the women at the table or at the event? You may have to write notes in advance to think up things to say! "Susie, I am really grateful you take such good care of little junior, he is so smart." "Betty, you are such a good cook, I admire that so much, these beans are fabulous." "Lilly, hows that job going, they are so fortunate to have you."

I also highly recommend Life Code by Dr Phil. I am sure everyone else is tired of me saying it but it helped me to understand how the mean, nasty, ugly acting people think and how to deflect and avoid them to protect myself.



45
Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws / Re: Big News
February 10, 2016, 01:48:02 PM
Monroe, 

Hard to be excited when you know you won't be included or treated respectfully. I do have to ask, Who says you have to act excited? Is your resentment after such bad treatment by DIL, spurred by something DS said during the phone call? Or are you just saying that excitement about a new grandbaby is the normal or usual response in our culture but for those of us "out grandma's" - well it hurts. That pain negates the excitement that the "in grandma's" feel. If you feel "you should" be excited, well let that should go by the wayside, leave it under a rock.