At this function, I saw an old friend of our son's. He was talking about how he was and what was going on in his life. His Mom and Dad have moved away from our area and are living about 4 hours from us now. I knew/know his Mom and Dad and asked him when they were coming into town to give us a call.
He said that he didn't know when they were coming into town again that the hardest thing he ever had to tell his Mom was that they were not coming home for Thanksgiving. He said it was because his wife's GF is still alive and as long as he was here, they were going to be with him. His wife wants her own traditions at Christmas so they won't be going then either.
So I asked if he was hurt by having to say this to his Mom and he said, "not really; I can't live with my wife when she gets upset."
Bingo!
IMHO, a lot of men are so "in the moment" (DW making life miserable) that they aren't looking at the long view (relationship with their FOO.) I think my DS knows for certain that we love him forever so he figures he can put his efforts elsewhere and not lose us.
So there you have it!
Our DS/DIL don't spend Thanksgiving with us every year, some years they've spent it with friends, we can understand someone doing this if they have no family near by. On Christmas they wanted to start their own tradition and stay home on the 24th, the 25th after they open their presents they come to her parent's house and on the 26th is our turn, to us the 26th is a little too late and has no meaning whatsoever plus we're so exhausted by then, but we have to take what we can get and settle for the leftovers. Everything they do is so shocking to us, so different, I don't want to think about it because it makes me so angry, I can't believe our son who we raised goes along with it. Our DD got married and there are no problems, they give equal amount of time to both families, DH and I never had a problem either.
Quote from: guest1 on September 26, 2010, 08:00:36 AM
So there you have it!
Our DS/DIL don't spend Thanksgiving with us every year, some years they've spent it with friends, we can understand someone doing this if they have no family near by. On Christmas they wanted to start their own tradition and stay home on the 24th, the 25th after they open their presents they come to her parent's house and on the 26th is our turn, to us the 26th is a little too late and has no meaning whatsoever plus we're so exhausted by then, but we have to take what we can get and settle for the leftovers. Everything they do is so shocking to us, so different, I don't want to think about it because it makes me so angry, I can't believe our son who we raised goes along with it. Our DD got married and there are no problems, they give equal amount of time to both families, DH and I never had a problem either.
Guest, be so glad you have a Daughter. It's not always true but those of us who only have sons, it is leftovers and leftovers only that we get.
What a big gun for a young wife to be able to carry..."if you cross me, I will get upset and you don't want to even think about going there, do you...Sweetie?"
Apparently young DHs don't know that it's OK for people to get upset...and if you leave them alone they will get over it or they won't. It's about them and isn't meant to be a tool of massive destruction.
I ask this in all seriousness...is it possible that your son's just don't care as much about holidays?
If you were to ask my il's they'll wax idyllic about holidays. My dh...he won't. He remembers being carted and driven all over the place, never sleeping in his own bed, continually being rushed around, never being able to enjoy anything or be loud or run around or have time to himself. Being served food he hated and manhandled by people he saw once a year or once every few years depending on who they traveled to that year. My dh NEVER had Christmas day at home. He always had to share it with some other branch of the family. He didn't like any of it---from a young child on. His parents are convinced it was great and wonderful and he loved it. He didn't. At all.
Now...Christmas morning is sacrosanct. It his him, me, and the boys. We open presents, try them out, play games and eat. We go to my parents on Xmas eve and his on Xmas afternoon, but Xmas morning is ours. No exceptions. And...if we didn't live so close to both sets of parents...I doubt it would be the way it is. While we did travel every few Xmas's to go to his gma's house (which we loathed) I refuse to travel long distances for every holiday. Just refuse. And, it's easy, because Dh doesn't want to do it either.
Quote from: 1Glitterati on September 26, 2010, 10:02:56 AM
I ask this in all seriousness...is it possible that your son's just don't care as much about holidays?
If you were to ask my il's they'll wax idyllic about holidays. My dh...he won't. He remembers being carted and driven all over the place, never sleeping in his own bed, continually being rushed around, never being able to enjoy anything or be loud or run around or have time to himself. Being served food he hated and manhandled by people he saw once a year or once every few years depending on who they traveled to that year. My dh NEVER had Christmas day at home. He always had to share it with some other branch of the family. He didn't like any of it---from a young child on. His parents are convinced it was great and wonderful and he loved it. He didn't. At all.
Now...Christmas morning is sacrosanct. It his him, me, and the boys. We open presents, try them out, play games and eat. We go to my parents on Xmas eve and his on Xmas afternoon, but Xmas morning is ours. No exceptions. And...if we didn't live so close to both sets of parents...I doubt it would be the way it is. While we did travel every few Xmas's to go to his gma's house (which we loathed) I refuse to travel long distances for every holiday. Just refuse. And, it's easy, because Dh doesn't want to do it either.
Sounds like you have it all worked out.
I can't speak for everyone here but to us, holidays are about being with family, the kids have the entire year to play with their toys.
There are lots of ways to look at it. At my age, holidays are days to remember and to go over to our nursing facility to comfort Val. Things change. Our families are spread far and near and those near...are not as close as those far.
Quote from: guest1 on September 26, 2010, 10:35:28 AM
I can't speak for everyone here but to us, holidays are about being with family, the kids have the entire year to play with their toys.
It wasn't about playing with the toys...it was about being in the car for hours at a time, taken to places he didn't like being at with people he didn't enjoy. Having no joy or fun whatsoever at the holiday family gatherings. He would much rather have spent time with his own parents and sister, rather than all the "family" he saw once or twice a year who were in fact strangers to him. It didn't cause him to grow closer to any of them or appreciate them. It caused him to resent them and actively dislike them---because everything was all about them, nothing was EVER about him and how he might enjoy the holiday. He never had any choice whatsoever...and he still resents it.
Quote from: guest1 on September 26, 2010, 10:35:28 AM
I can't speak for everyone here but to us, holidays are about being with family, the kids have the entire year to play with their toys.
Isn't a husband, wife, and kids spending the day together being with family? Immediate families need relaxing and fun time alone together sometimes, too, and with work schedules, school schedules, and activity schedules, some families don't have a lot of opportunity for time alone together as a family other than holidays. I think it's OK to set aside a little time that is specifically for husband/wife/kids only.
Like Glitterati, Christmas morning is our family time. We spend Christmas Eve with my grandmother, and we get together with my mom & my siblings and their families for dinner Christmas night or the day after Christmas, but Christmas morning and early afternoon is ours, always and no matter what. It was the same way in my family when I was growing up and I have wonderful Christmas memories, and I fully expect my kids to do the same when they marry. We still spend time with the rest of the family, just not Christmas morning, having a little time alone together is important and Christmas morning is ours.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the point of this topic was the DS going along with the DIL to keep the peace and the holidays were one example. If the DS isn't into seeing his FOO at the holidays then the point is moot.
When DS wants to see his FOO, at holidays or other times and DIL makes it uncomfortable for him to do so, she's manipulating the situation and he's going along to keep the peace, just as the son in BT's post said: "So I asked if he was hurt by having to say this to his Mom and he said, 'not really; I can't live with my wife when she gets upset.' "
Free at last, if you read my previous post I said my DS/DIL always go to DIL's parents first, they always come first, we wouldn't mind if they would alternate but our family always comes last, that is when they come.
Louise, I know things change. Some changes are easier to live with than others. It's devastating for us not to have our DS and his family with us on special occasions, specially when they have no problem attending all of DIL's family functions, a part of us is missing, it's so devastating.
Pen, I'm sorry if I got off the subject, that wasn't my intention.
Guest1, I don't care about that. I'm sorry if that's how I sounded; I just didn't want BT's original intent to get lost in a discussion about holiday traditions and expectations or DS's desire/lack of desire to join his FOO for celebrations since the point of the OP was that DS didn't mind hurting his mom if it meant avoiding upsetting DIL. I think that's a really important issue!
I agree with you, Guest1, that it's devastating to not have DS and DIL with us on special occasions when DIL's FOO has them for all of their functions. My DS & DIL are with her FOO daily, and talk or text many times a day. We are way out of the loop :( I can totally relate. We're the last ones, too, most of the time. Apparently my DS is secure enough in our relationship to be able to put us last - kind of bittersweet, eh?
Quote from: LaurieS on September 26, 2010, 07:14:37 PM
For the life of me, I can't figure out what FOO is
I have concluded that it is: Family of Origin
Yup, we seem to make them up as we go along. There weren't any to start with. 8)
Yeah, I wondered about DH and DS. :o Probably H and S would work better to cover all bets. ;D
Quote from: luise.volta on September 26, 2010, 09:20:23 PM
Yeah, I wondered about DH and DS. :o Probably H and S would work better to cover all bets. ;D
yes! because neither are dear many times!
BTH and BTS. .B-barely and T-tolerable. ;D ;D
Quote from: luise.volta on September 26, 2010, 09:31:12 PM
BTH and BTS. .B-barely and T-tolerable. ;D ;D
MKIA (Mr. Know it all) ;D
SNTBH - Soon not to be husband! ;D
STBS is more efficient, yes!
EFD! Eyelids falling down! G'nite...