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Hi Green Thumb,
Thank you for your reply and book recommendation.  I will check it out.  In our situation, I think we created our own monster, so to speak, esp my husband, by giving her so much.  She is very pushy when she wants something.  We have had to anticipate every possible desire of hers so we wouldn't let her walk all over us, and it is exhausting.  She has softened up with the latest boundary I initiated, and I think we are done caving in to her.  I think she will fall in line.  She does have a heart of gold, and that is the truth, which I forget sometimes.  She made me lunches for an entire year when she lived at home.  She did a lot of cooking for us. She is really caring with the disabled people she takes care of, and advocates for them something fierce!  As for the drinking, she is taking care of the boyfriend and monitoring his access to alcohol.  She is a caregiver....has been doing it for years before joining our family at age 9.  She drinks, or at least has done it, which she told me.  But now since she is parenting the BF she probably is trying to provide a good example.  He is abusive when he drinks, and that has scared her.  But she is not ready to leave him at this time and I have stopped holding my breath and just let it go and live my own life, which is the only thing I have any control over.  I'm so thankful to the WWU website, which has given me a blueprint for living my life regardless of what happens with my adult child (soon to be two adult children!). Thanks again, Green Thumb, and I am sending warm thoughts your way.   

Yes, you can close it.  I'm sure I'll be back. 

Pen, sounds like you can relate to my dilemma.  I think I will say as little as possible and let her do the talking.  If it gets to be too much, I can try to change the subject...."How about those ________?"  (insert name of lousy local sports team here). Ha ha....that is what we say in our family when the tensions get high as we are so conflict averse.  I don't know if there is a polite way of saying that we don't want to hear about significant other's FOOs, Pen, without it being taken wrong. (If you come up with one, let me know!)  Be busy, change the subject, don't seem interested or ask follow up questions, like you said, is perhaps the best we can do.  After a year of me crying over DD leaving home while still in HS and ostensibly choosing another mother over me, she is now considerate enough to be sensitive about what she mentions about his family to me.  Hope I one day get to the point where I just feel nothing about BFs mother and the whole family in general, but I'm not there yet. 

Luise, your words that our AC's "going for the gold" in whatever form (for my daughter it had to do with no rules at BF's mom's house, while we still had rules and expectations) has nothing to with us is so important for me to remember.  It feels so personal, and it is so hard to let go.  Ironically, I feel DD will be even stricter with her own children someday when she chooses to have them (please, no time soon  ), and then who will have the last laugh?

Still Learning, your questions merit some consideration.  It's not a given that she will ask about baking cookies, but she loves Christmas and all the decorating and preparations.  Shortly after she abruptly moved out of our house at the start of her senior year of HS to live with her BF and his mom, she asked if we would still be baking cookies and decorating the house together for Christmas, which was still three months away.  I know she treasures those experiences of home.  It's possible she will have to work this year and not even have enough time in town to bake or decorate.  I also need to weigh my discomfort about sharing cookies with BFs family against the desire to continue a cherished tradition with my daughter.  As you can see, I am getting ahead of myself with concerns about the holidays, but I will try to focus on the present moment and keep positive thoughts.  I liked your advice to not even bring up the call she made or ask about any problems in their relationship.  Good call!

Thanks, everyone, for your kind and thoughtful posts.  As Shiny said, I think I have enough pearls for a beautiful necklace.  Precious!

Shiny, thanks for your great ideas about steps I can take.  I seem to do well when there is little to no contact with DD.  And I probably should not obsess about the holidays, but they loom large and I just want to get some possible scenarios figured out because they might threaten to undo the good work I am doing now.

One of the traditions that DD and I have is to make holiday cookies for ourselves and our extended family, and we always make extra batches so she can share them with her BFs large extended family with tons of kids (She loooooooves children).  And she gets proprietal about the cookies so there are enough for his family, not thinking about OUR family.  OK, so in the past two years I have just agreed to this.  THIS year, however, I am not even sure I want to go down this cookie baking path, knowing this will again be the case.  It will just upset me and cause friction between us.  I could try to talk to her about it, but I am afraid it wouldn't go well and she would say, "Well, I thought it was something we always do together that is special, but if that's how you feel, whatever. My mistake." (Dripping with guilt trip).  So what to do about that?  Perhaps you will think this is a silly, trite thing, but it is symbolic of the main hurts I've had over the last two and a half years, which is her choosing his family over ours time and again.  I know that I should extend the invitations for her to join us for the holidays (which means a four or five hour road trip and overnight stay for each holiday for all of us, as both DHs and my family are out of state), and let go of any expectation as to whether she comes or not.  The hard part will be interacting with her and avoiding the subject of her BF and his family.  I will not bring up his name at all.  If she does, I am not sure how to handle it.  Lots of things to consider.  Any advice?

Thanks, everyone, for weighing in and giving me that unequivocal advice to not contact her.  (I didn't) It was the way I wanted to handle it anyway, but it was a big change from my previous behavior so it didn't feel right.  I do feel somewhat guilty letting go, like you said, Shiny. But it is so freeing, I can't believe it!  And the truth is, I don't need to know the details, circumstances or outcome.  It doesn't serve me well.  It leads me to all sorts of frustrations and negative feelings about both of them and their relationship, and then I journal all the details and get no rest. It's a nasty downward spiral. I remember reading over and over in this forum the advice to take baby steps, and that's what I feel I'm doing here, thanks to you supportive women who have given me such sage advice.  BTW, I have a quote from Still Learning in my journal that really struck me, and I gave it its own page...

I still sometimes visit the abyss, but I no longer dwell there.  Love it! 

Wise women, I have been in therapy off and on since my daughter met this BF, and I spent a long time in the abyss. I'd have to say that the pearls that I have gathered on this website are equally valuable, if not more so, and just what I need at this time in my life.  What a serendipitous find!

Welcome, M! I think that it was really sweet that your son cared so much about you, even knowing it would upset his wife.  Like the others, I think this is for your son and DIL to work out.  He will learn the most if you stay out of it.  This is his path to travel with the woman he chose to be with, and he has some learning to do, or not.  It is his choice to deal with her in whatever way he chooses, and there is nothing you can do that won't make it worse or create stress for yourself.  Let it go.  It hurts so much to see our adult kids suffer, but they have made their choices and have to deal with the consequences.  Like Luise just told me in a recent post, turn away from worry about DS and turn toward yourself and DH and your peaceful life.  You and your husband did the hard work to learn how to communicate and compromise in your relationship, and now it is your son's turn.  You can comfort yourself in knowing that you have modeled a strong, healthy relationship. 

Hello WW    I wrote about my 20 year old daughter last month, who is in a controlling relationship with a BF.  Since I established a boundary of how I wanted to be treated, she hadn't been in contact.  However, last night she called, crying and saying she was sorry for not having kept in touch with me. I said it was okay, since it really was (I have been enjoying the equilibrium of loving detachment).  She told me she was driving him back home to his mom's house, a four hour round trip, and wanted to stop by our house to talk with me after she dropped him off (we live in the same metro area as BF's mom).  I said that I had to work till 9, so she decided against stopping by, as she had to work early this morning, and apparently preferred talking to me about her problems  and not her dad.  I suggested she could call me after I was off work, but hoped she wouldn't since I have a hard time sleeping after she sobs and shares her BF troubles with me. 

Well, she didn't call me last night, and I slept well.  So my question is, should I check in with her today by phone or text?  I am feeling that I don't want to get in the way of her learning.  Plus, I know her issues with him will be nothing I haven't heard already.  Should I just wait and see if she calls me?  I know chances are good she will get back together with him again.   It feels funny not to reach out, but again I want her to initiate this if she wants.  Plus I feel she gets closer to me after fighting with him, and then forgets about me when everything is fine with him, while continuing to spend her time with BF's large extended family.  Who needs that?

Thanks for any advice you can offer!

Hi Starfire, and welcome! Thank you for your kind words. Yes, I am feeling that distance is really helping me now.  I know DD was in town last weekend and I didn't even spend much time thinking about her.  Also, I am intentionally not looking at her bank account transactions, which my husband still has access to.  I am trying to not do/read/think anything about her that will get myself thinking in a downward spiral.  This is fairly new for me and I'm kind of proud of myself.  (Got the idea from WWU...thanks for that  )  Also it gets my husband and me to refocus on ourselves; that's been so good for us!

As for the BF, I only saw him twice (in public places both times) since he threatened my husband, and not after the police incident...haven't seen her since then either, and that was a couple of months ago.  We may communicate with her about Thxgiving since we travel five hours and she'd have to plan for the time off from work to join us.  But she has not been in contact with us and I don't expect she will. 

Yes, the tough love route is the way to go.  Drawing the boundaries about our choices vs. her choices is good.  And explaining why we won't see him again.  I liked Pooh's phrasing of not giving him a "free pass" when he hurts someone I love. But I can't really say anything more to her about her ending her relationship with the BF...tried that time and time again from as many angles as I could find, believe me! Now she has to figure that out for herself and I will zip my lips and not get in her way. She knows what DH and I think already. When she decided to break up with him a couple of times this past summer, she wanted me to be there with her to comfort and support her, but then changed her mind about breaking up when he cried, pleaded and threatened suicide. (I've given her resources on how to handle someone who threatens suicide, signs of emotional abuse and resources, etc).  Good thing I haven't gone down there when she's asked me, just to have to turn right around and drive two hours back home because she changed her mind! I've learned it can take 7 or more times before she might really leave him for good, as in most abusive relationships.  I wish I would have known that the first time she broke up and moved out, about 18 months ago, instead of having my hopes dashed and my emotions run through the ringer.  Now I'm wiser and calmer, at least in that regard.  Ha ha...I should have used "Getting Wiser" as my user name...or has that been taken already?     Maybe that name describes all of us 

Thanks, again, wise and caring women, for all your support! 

Luise, how does one make herself scarce while pretending everything is okay?  Didn't your son and DIL notice you backing away?  Also, referring to your son as a wonderful man after years of scapegoating and estrangement shows an amazing level of enlightenment and forgiveness.  Did stepping away help you to see the admirable traits in your son? 

One thing I wonder...do the DSs, DDs, SILs and DILs who scapegoat their DMs or MILs also do the same with others?  Do they have a problem accepting blame or responsibility as a general rule?  I find that is true of my own DD.  If a friendship hits a snag, it's the other person's fault.  Same with a work confrontation, bad grade in school, financial woes, etc.  So many convenient places to put that blame.  Do scapegoaters attract other scapegoaters? 

Thanks for your advice, Pooh and Monroe.  I agree with the idea of waiting till the holidays and extending an invite.  You are right, Monroe, it would be a long wait for an apology.  She would say she already gave me one, and I did hear the words "I'm sorry" couched within a lot of other excuse-like phrases that effectively nullified it.  It wasn't the type of apology that I have modeled to her on numerous occasions, and that she has given me in the past.  She knows.

I have learned here that holding too many expectations around the holidays will just bring me down, and now that she has had some holidays with BFs family, I have gotten past that.  The first year was the hardest, but it is easier each time now.  In fact, sorry to say, it is sometimes more relaxing without her there, knowing the BF drama or memories of past BF drama that sometimes accompany her.

Hi Pen, this thread has been going on a really long time  .
What a boatload of disappointment for you as you consider the holidays.  We have missed out on holidays with our DD as well, so she could be with BFs large FOO.  We started a new tradition to take away some of that pain.  We always go out of state to my family or DHs family, and two days after Christmas we go to a lovely city two hours north that DH and I both like, as well as our DS....sometimes.  (He's 17 and it could go either way ) That way we have our own special time away to look forward to.  I know your DDD is with you; maybe she would like such an adventure as well.  My thinking is that by shaking things up a bit for yourself around the holidays, you may not feel the loss as much. I have a friend whose DS spends the majority of every holiday with DILs controlling FOO. The little time carved out for my friend at holiday time was miserable because DIL would ignore the whole family and was consumed with writing holiday cards or other stress that she would pass on to everyone else. My friend finally decided to change up the holiday and offer a family celebration in October, knowing she would have the actual holidays with other snowbird friends in her retirement community.  Not perfect, but better than the former approach.  Wishing you the best, Pen 

Back again...DD called me a few nights ago, and I brought up her "cold shoulder" treatment of us.  First she denied it, then she blamed it on work stress. Finally, when pressed, she indicated being mad about the cosign and then later about the letter we sent.  I said we did not regret sending the letter and will not accept her cold treatment of us anymore.  She said, "My mistake for calling then." And that was that.  I knew it would upset her.  Part of me felt that I knowingly pushed her into getting upset just so I could justify maintaining my peaceful distance from her, and then I read a WWU thread that really helped me put it into perspective, titled, "Has Anyone Else Deliberately Made Their Children Mad?" It was like it had been written for me! I realized what I said was done out of self-preservation.  It was an "ah-ha" moment for me.  I've taken her perspective over my own so often I've forgotten what my perspective even is, or I've relegated it to second-class status. I can't tell you how much that post, and so many others that I have copied into my journal, have given me power and insight.

Now I have some questions.  What is my next step here? Wait for some apology and acknowledgement of the "cold shoulder" treatment?  What if there is nothing forthcoming before the holidays? Continue to extend the invitations anyway? 

Hi Pen, thanks for your support.  I have gained so much wisdom from this site; I feel that it will be a source of comfort and inspiration to me as time goes on. So many others have walked a similar journey and have come out the other side, no matter how their relationships turn out with their adult children. That gives me confidence to stay the course. 

Thank you both for your compassionate and/but "tough love" replies.  This is what I was looking for when posting this question.  I have decided that "loving detachment" will be the plan for now.  It will seriously make life easier for my husband and me in the near term.  The holidays could bring on more drama, but you have given me some useful phrases to use, should she be in touch.  I am feeling good  about not having to see the BF again, because that would be a farce to try to show respect after all he has done.  And why should I be put through that because of HER choice?  Hugs to you, Luise and Pooh!

Pooh, thanks for stating the obvious that eluded my husband and me...yes, DD should have known the BFs threat against my DH was real when she has been living with his bad behavior for over two years now.

Luise, I appreciate your insight about passing the disrespect on from him to her to us.  It is like kicking the dog when your boss yells at you. 

If I may ask a follow up question, it regards my concern that BF is emotionally (and financially) abusing her.  At the present time, she has no one else to talk to about this..she has made his family and his friends her entire world.  As hard as it has been, I felt that I should be the one who keeps a relationship with her AND him, so she is free to be honest with me about his abusive behaviors, instead of lying so we would think well of him, which is impossible at this point.  So my question to you is: should I tell her that I am open to seeing him still?  I can hardly fathom it after she called the cops on him. I think she would be open to seeing me again if I opened myself up to including him. 

The other piece that I should point out is she was abandoned in childhood and took care of many young and disabled children before she joined our family.  She is now taking care of her BF in a similar  way.  We have tried to encourage her to see a therapist to work on these issues from her past but she is not interested at this time.  My heart goes out to her because I know the events of her childhood, over which she had no control, are influencing her decision to stay with this guy.