Good Morning Ladies and Happy Holidays as the season has now begun. So, I have heard many of you share your stories of hurt feelings that revolve around the holidays and I suppose I am hoping for some insight into each of the different dilemmas you have faced at the holidays – what was the circumstance and why did you feel the way you did and how do you wish things would have worked out? I believe I mentioned this in my introduction post that I am here for insight and perspective – I have seen and heard so many stories about relationships deteriorating and so I joined this site in the hope of preventing any discord that may arise in my relationship with my FILs as any friction there may cause a strain on my relationship with FDH.
The holidays are now upon us and so is the planning of holiday celebrations, which is the beginning of hurt feelings many times. How do we choose where to go, etc.? How do you ladies make your decisions, or how would you like the decisions to be made, what factors should take precedence, etc? If one family has set traditions and the other doesn't, does this matter? If one family has more people attending does this factor in? I am hoping everyone will share their thoughts, experiences and opinions(feelings) of getting together during Christmas.
For me: I am extremely close with my family, and my Mom, my Sister and I always spend the holiday cooking an extravagant holiday spread and enjoying the day together, and I really just cannot see myself not being with them on the holiday. However, I also know that I cannot expect FDH to just 'jump on board' with my family celebrations and drop his family. I was a bit 'lucky', so-to-speak, last year as FDH's mother had to work on Christmas day (she is a delivery room nurse) so we were not torn with 'having to pick where to go', but this morning FDH told me that his mom wanted to see him on Christmas day. Of course I am trying to remind myself that of course a mother wants to see her son on Christmas, but I cannot help but feeling a bit bummed that now I won't be spending Christmas with my FDH; and also a bit torn wondering if FMIL is expecting me to come as well, because I won't be, not because I don't want to, but because I have numerous obligations (granted I do not treat them as obligation because I enjoy cooking SO MUCH) with my own family. Additionally, we have kept the exact same routine in my FOOs house on Christmas since my sister and I could walk; the only time it changed was one year when FDH and I tried splitting Christmas between both families (our first year together) but all that did was stress us both out and, at least, I felt a bit cheated and disappointed with Christmas that year (possibly because I felt I had to 'sacrifice' my Christmas morning – arrrrrrrgggghhhh – perhaps the fact that I thought of it as ME 'sacrificing' MY Christmas morning is the start of my problem, but how do I not think of it that way?)
I look forward to hearing your thoughts and stories to gain some insight into MIL/FMILs thoughts on holidays. Thank you.
Moonchild - I'm worried about you and FDH not being together for Christmas. When you get married how will you do it? When you have kids how will you do it? I really hope that you've discussed this with him, because these are things you both should know 'going in'.
As for us, we live 'out of town' from both of our FOO's. When we were first married, we would spend Christmas with one FOO, and New Year's with the other. The following year we would alternate (whoever "had" Thanksgiving, did not "have" Christmas). This was brutally hard because it involved a lot of driving, and we would be gone for over a week.
Then DH got a job that didn't shut down over Christmas and DD was born. Now, we visit ONE family for Christmas and the other is welcome to visit us for New Year's (my Mom always comes, the IL's - not so much).
So, 2 years ago my Dad died, very unexpectedly (at only 62 y/o). That year was supposed to be my IL's turn for Christmas. But there was NO WAY I was leaving my Mom alone for her first Christmas without my Dad. Even then, we went to see the IL's for Thanksgiving. Then LAST year, we were up in the air over where to spend Christmas, because of my DB's family, and we really had not made any plans either way. But MIL invited us specifically for Thanksgiving. Phew! There, our decision was made! Thanksgiving with the IL's and Christmas with my Mom. That Thanksgiving, my MIL made a rude comment about having missed Christmas last year, and then said "well, you're coming this year!" Uhm, no.
I was SO MAD. Here, my Mom, traumatically widowed, never once expected us to spend ALL holidays with her and my MIL was trying to 'hog' all of the holidays for that year. Argh!
I guess my point is that no matter how hard you try to keep it fair, some people won't be happy. So you have to do what YOU and DH think is right and fair.
One more thing. My IL's open presents Christmas Eve and my FOO open presents Christmas morning. Before DD was born, it wasn't even on the radar, we followed the traditions of the family we were visiting. But after DD came along, I refused to open presents Christmas Eve. Santa doesn't come until you're in bed - that's how it works, no matter WHO'S house you're sleeping in. I don't know if we'll renegotiate when she no longer Believes (may that day be far in the future).
These are things you will have to consider with FDH, for when you're married and especially for when you have kids. It's better to "begin as you mean to go on". You'll have to come up with your own family traditions, which hopefully incorporate a mix of both yours and FDH's traditions.
What we do for Thanksgiving and Christmas is what my mother suggested many years ago, so that we never had to choose between her and the other side.
We have Thanksgiving with my husband's family on Thanksgiving day at his brother's house. On the Saturday after, we have my family Thanksgiving. We used to take turns having it, but my brother has a great big barn and we do both holidays for my side of the family there.
For Christmas, my family has Christmas the Saturday before and I have Christmas day at our house for my husband's family.
We also have a special Christmas day when all or part of my children are home. Two sons live out of state. OS has a child, so they have Santa Claus at their home and then come to Georgia for a week. So, we end up celebrating for a couple of weeks it seems like.
Hope you and your FH can come to some agreements so it's not too stressful for both families.
Here is a DIL's insight...
My DH and I have been married for 2 1/2 years and we have our own traditions. My MIL usually travels for the holidays and has since she was widowed 12 years ago. She would leave her DS (my DH) at home alone and go visit her other kids out of state, so my DH would spend the holidays with his aunt and uncle. So we usually don't spend holidays with her. When she is home we sometimes have dessert at her house.
I grew up in a big family and all of my siblings live withing 30 min of my parents. We have so many traditions that I love, that instead of constantly taking my DH to my FOO's house, we carry on the traditions ourselves (and my DH has some traditions we incorporate as well and we've come up with new ones together). We don't have any kids, so it's just the two of us, and we have a blast! Every other year we eat by ourselves and the next yr with my FOO, then dessert at my MIL's when she's home (and if she's been good), if she isn't home then we go out to eat when she gets home. My DH and I also spend Christmas Eve together & Christmas morning together doing our own traditions, then at 4:00 pm we head over to my FOO's for the big family gift exchange, then dessert with my MIL if she's home and if she has been good or we out to eat later.
I strongly suggest you start your own traditions to help the two of you grow together, then if kids come along those traditions are already set and there isn't as much stress and hurt feelings in the future. Good luck!
Quote from: MoonChild on November 22, 2011, 11:32:05 AM
Good Morning Ladies and Happy Holidays as the season has now begun.
......
For me: I am extremely close with my family, and my Mom, my Sister and I always spend the holiday cooking an extravagant holiday spread and enjoying the day together, and I really just cannot see myself not being with them on the holiday.
.........
However, I also know that I cannot expect FDH to just 'jump on board' with my family celebrations and drop his family.
.......
his mom wanted to see him on Christmas day. Of course I am trying to remind myself that of course a mother wants to see her son on Christmas, but I cannot help but feeling a bit bummed that now I won't be spending Christmas with my FDH; and also a bit torn wondering if FMIL is expecting me to come as well, because I won't be, not because I don't want to, but because I have numerous obligations (granted I do not treat them as obligation because I enjoy cooking SO MUCH) with my own family.
......
I felt a bit cheated and disappointed with Christmas that year (possibly because I felt I had to 'sacrifice' my Christmas morning – arrrrrrrgggghhhh –
OK -- I just checked -- you are not going to marry my DS -- whew!
Carry on then.
Moonchild I think you will be starting off on the wrong foot if you and FDH start going your own ways for the holidays. I know I would be offended if my DIL did not come with my DS whenever he visits, let aone a special Holiday. You have to do a lot of compromising in a relationship and this is one of the things you must compromise on. So unless you and the ILs do not get along you should give them equal time-together with your FDH. Part of growing up and getting married will involve many changes from that of your childhood.
I do not like spending time with my FDH(maybe) because they have done things and said things that were offensive. I am still not sure about holidays this year. But before I overheard the ILs advising a break-up I was OK with sharing the holidays (Christmas Vs Thanksgiving Vs New Years) between everybody.
My DS on the other hand usually spends holidays with either his ILs or my X's family because those gatherings involve more people, whereas with me it is just myself and FDH. I am very hurt by this (FYI) because even though I no longer have family I still love and need my AC and would also like to be visited, and invited to visit, on the holidays just like everyone else.
I think some people try to make the holidays more difficult than they should be - after all; Christmas is about the birth of a baby and Thanksgiving is about being truly thankful for our many blessings. I feel these (as well as other) holidays have morphed into "something" that was never the intent.
Having said that, as a daughter and DIL, I tried to accommodate both sides of the family on each and every holiday. Because it was so very rushed and hectic, I can't say that I enjoyed either very much (but in my generation, that is what one did). Not to do so would have been considered cruel and selfish. As a MIL, I only want to be "considered" - whether it is getting together one or two weeks prior or even a few moments on "the" day. It's when I am totally omitted and left out and frankly, not even considered that I get upset. It's not about one's traditions, or size of the gathering, or the distance people travel, or the meal, or the closeness of the family, or the number of obligations - for me, it's just being "considered". And when a new family unit is formed, your parents' traditions are just that - traditions of your parents and likewise for your husband's side of the family. Their holiday traditions are not yours nor your husband's. This is hard for parents to accept (and some children) - when a new family unit is formed, the "old" way is obsolete; traditions are changed/broken, and others need to be accommodated and/or created.
Does your future husband accompany you to your family obligations? If so, then I feel you should accompany him to his family obligations. Not to do so would be a major "slap in the face". I have one DIL who treats us as her family and an ex-DIL who treated us as non-existent and invisible and unworthy. (note - she is now an ex). When you marry, your husband must come first, then your children, then other family members (and that includes both sides equally). I have noticed that if one spouse ignores or treats the IL family poorly, often the marriage suffers. After all, if one is cruel to one's IL's, that person is probably self-centered and cruel to others - whether family, friends, acquaintances or strangers.
So, whether you squeeze in two celebrations in one day or alternate between years/holidays or choose another day for some celebrations, it's a decision to be made by your husband and you. And, I believe this decision should be based on being kind, being fair, and being considerate to others - and that may mean saying "no" to your family members as well as to your future IL's. I suspect neither side will "like" it, but this is part of being an adult - compromising and giving and letting go. All the best ...
Moonchild, I am a MIL who hasn't had Thanksgiving or Christmas with ds since he got "serious" bc the FDIL (then dil) had such strong traditions with her FOO and we didn't want the couple to split up going places, wanted them to be together, so we just said ok (we were informed by dil she would be at her FOOs on all holidays till death, no kidding, so no choice there.) We were so shocked we missed our chance to show alarm but it would have been useless anyway.
Our son thought we didn't celebrate on The DAYs or even close to them as his wife makes the plans (I know, he doesn't get into it and it's probably better that he doesn't) and also bc my mother and ILs were flexible and would alternate, being considerate, so he didn't remember how we sometimes had the family at our house, sometimes at someone else's to accommodate the ILs; I explained once, and he now knows we miss them on holidays but he wants wife happy, so we keep duct-taped; who wants a dil who doesn't want to be w us, makes ds miserable, all of us; better to be just dh and me.....
BTW, when the family does come to visit (not on holidays, of course, other times) we do all get along; dh and I go out of our way to make dil and ds and all happy; there are no arguments or resentments bc we want to keep the family.
I'm requoting what amflautist said bc frankly it's how much fun and great it is w your FOO and frankly, it's that feelings of your fdh and of his family don't matter. You won't go to your fdh's FOO; you'd rather be w your FOO even if it means not being w FDH? Really? Just because it's so much fun and what you always do? Your mother and sister wouldn't consider an alterate date on alternate years? It doesn't make your heart hurt to hear you FMIL say she wants to see her ds (and probably you, too!?) And how fortunate that fdh's mother had to work on last year's holiday so it all worked out! Wow!
My dil's FOO doesn't feel bad for our being alone, so of course dil doesn't either, only of their own celebrations, traditions, everyone falls in line, those who don't go to their own FOO alone! How sad that FOOs don't volunteer to alternate any holiday to make the "outsiders" happy; I hope you reconsider and give up some of your happy times (alternate, ok?) bc believe me, even if your mil or ds say nothing, it isn't a good way to start a marriage, thinking only of your own fun and not someone else's feelings. I'm saying this bc no one must have said this to my dil.
Please reread jdtm's post also..... it's not how many people are at the celebration, how far the distance, how deep the traditions; it's being fair and considerate; FOO should instill this in their children/young adults bc if they are willing to make the to-be ILs and fsil happy at the expense of having to alternate, share, etc., they will have gone a long way towards making the future couple happier.
This is all said not in malice but just in what could happen if you don't consider fdh's feelings and that of his FOO. Believe me, I wish my dil had had this guidance.
Amflutist implies she's glad you won't be her dil. (It's bc your FOO and your enjoyment with them are what counts.) You are my dil.
Quote from: amflautist on November 22, 2011, 05:10:06 PM
Quote from: MoonChild on November 22, 2011, 11:32:05 AM
Good Morning Ladies and Happy Holidays as the season has now begun.
......
For me: I am extremely close with my family, and my Mom, my Sister and I always spend the holiday cooking an extravagant holiday spread and enjoying the day together, and I really just cannot see myself not being with them on the holiday.
.........
However, I also know that I cannot expect FDH to just 'jump on board' with my family celebrations and drop his family.
.......
his mom wanted to see him on Christmas day. Of course I am trying to remind myself that of course a mother wants to see her son on Christmas, but I cannot help but feeling a bit bummed that now I won't be spending Christmas with my FDH; and also a bit torn wondering if FMIL is expecting me to come as well, because I won't be, not because I don't want to, but because I have numerous obligations (granted I do not treat them as obligation because I enjoy cooking SO MUCH) with my own family.
......
I felt a bit cheated and disappointed with Christmas that year (possibly because I felt I had to 'sacrifice' my Christmas morning – arrrrrrrgggghhhh –
OK -- I just checked -- you are not going to marry my DS -- whew!
Carry on then.
Moonchild, pardon me, this is the first post I've read on here. I was struck.
I remember when I was 18 and I got to choose for the first time between which parent I wanted to spend Christmas with. All of our traditions previously had gone out the window. I could not imagine missing all that stuff I grew up with. I was tormented at the thought of missing all of that. I didn't have a choice.
A decade later, my family is stretched in even more ways than that. Myself getting married, my brother getting married, another brother in law moving overseas. We all may go 2-3 Christmases without seeing each other now. Make that 2-3 years worth of holidays.
That first Christmas was gut-wrenching, but only because I was making it so. It was awful right up until the day I was sadly anticipating. I experienced something different: a Christmas with a handful of loved ones instead of all of them. I still enjoyed myself. I realized there wasn't any love lost because I missed a holiday with the ones I was used to spending it with. I had a great time. I realized that tradition is something we bog ourselves down with, but it isn't mandatory. I realized too, that traditions have to change once marriages, divorces, births and deaths take place. If a holiday "day" gets split between two families, there is still plenty of time to enjoy the company of loved ones. If it happens to be that one family gets the entire day and the other gets the day after or week after, there is still plenty of time to enjoy the company of loved ones.
Sapphire made a good point; it's being with loved ones even if it means new traditions (hard to be comfortable with at first, yes) and establishing good will (not referring to being forced to be with ILs or relatives who are cruel or hurtful.)
My last post was on the feelings of your FMIL and ds being together on Christmas and your not being with fdh bc of this. I know that you know that when you marry your dh you are a unit; as close as you are with your FOO, the closeness you have with dh will be stronger; even if it is upsetting to the dynamics of your FOO, the happiness of your dh (and of your union) comes first, even if it means not being at every Christmas morning, cooking with your FOO. The happiness of your fdh actually started when you fell in love and decided to marry (or before!)
When a bride marries, she is actually marrying into the family of her dh, and vice versa. You'll read many stories of bad relationships between mils/dils/sils........ sometimes it's unavoidable. But "back in the day" dh and I did as jdtm did, traveled to both sides of the family and/or alternated holidays so as to maintain the closeness of both sides of the family. Fortunately dh's family and mine understood that even if it wasn't their preference on whose house/holiday/date, we needed to be with both sides of the family when possible; marriage is a merging of the two families and is important for the happiness of the couple.
The first time my husband took me to see his FOO was Christmas day before we got married. He attempted to introduce me to his parents and his mother and father seeing me and immediately figuring out that I'm not Asian refused to speak to me. I said Merry Christmas, they looked away. Five years later, they don't understand why we don't spend Christmas with them ever. Apparently, I'm supposed to magically forget how awful they have been, despite the fact that to this day, my MIL has yet to say one word to me, not even "hello."
I would love to have in laws where it was just a matter of dealing with alternating holidays and having arguments over who cooks what dishes.
Foofoo, that's why when I said that ILs need to compromise and dhs and dws accept new traditions I added the caveat, "(not referring to being forced to be with ILs or relatives who are cruel or hurtful.)"
I'm truly sorry that you have been treated so shabbily; I've heard of such things. Along with the accepting ILs, there are these types of cruel ILs and also plain inconsiderate ones (I was speaking of the ones who don't realize the pain of their sils and dils and their FOO's.)
Yes, it must seem trivial to hear stories of ILs or sils or dils who refuse to share/compromise, etc., compared to being shunned as you are. Hope you have a dh and other relatives who make your holidays good ones; it's hard to get a stinker of a mil like this, cultural biases or not.
That is really sad, Foofoo. I wouldn't forget something like that either. It is things like that that help me to put the holiday tug-of-war into perspective, whether I be on the losing end or the winning end.
Welcome Sapphire :)
Please read the Forum Agreement and WWU History (first two threads highlighted in pink) in the category Open Me First. We ask all new members to do so not b/c there is anything wrong with your posts :)
Glad you jumped right in, I think you'll find a lot of posters to relate to here :)
FooFoo, I remember your story and it is heartbreaking for all concerned. Your MIL is missing out on a wonderful DIL and GC.
IMO, if we see people as "less than" it's easier to pretend they don't have feelings.
Quote from: MoonChild on November 22, 2011, 11:32:05 AM
Additionally, we have kept the exact same routine in my FOOs house on Christmas since my sister and I could walk; the only time it changed was one year when FDH and I tried splitting Christmas between both families (our first year together) but all that did was stress us both out and, at least, I felt a bit cheated and disappointed with Christmas that year (possibly because I felt I had to 'sacrifice' my Christmas morning – arrrrrrrgggghhhh – perhaps the fact that I thought of it as ME 'sacrificing' MY Christmas morning is the start of my problem, but how do I not think of it that way?)
Hi Moonchild-
Routines change when you marry and start your own household - I doubt that the tooth fairy is still visiting you or that the Easter Bunny still leaves a basket, right?
But you aren't married yet, and it sounds like you aren't ready to give up some aspects of your childhood - so don't.
It seems to me that at some point, the pressure of your own created family will push you into wanting to move away from your FOO traditions and start your own. But if the pull of your FOO is still so strong that they are most important, then continue getting with them.
If you feel cheated/disappointed about spending time with DH's family, then don't.
After you and your FDH marry, you might consider starting your own tradition for Christmas day, some that you can build on if you decide to have kids. Hey! Invite both your FOO and his family to your place for Christmas!
I hate to beat a dead horse, but MoonChild, you sound just like my dil on the "same routine since I could walk"......
No one who is a "true and faithful" member of the family misses Christmas, even the ones who live across the country to attend, every single year. One uncle has attended all 90 years of his life. DIL has stated w/o being asked by us, that she always has and always will be in Hometown, USA, all her life for all holidays (and she actually likes us!)
It's not a big problem for the majority who never left the hometown (they must attend dinner and presents and then are allowed to go to their own FOO.) The problem comes with the people like ds whose FOO live miles away and other "outsiders" who also have FOO at a distance. I've not heard (several years of marriage) one of the FOO mention that we will be alone for the holidays.
What happens if an "outsider's" FOO decides they want the holiday with their own? The spouse must decide, do I want to upset my dw or dh or do I leave my children w the ILs and go alone to my FOO? I do know some of the "married ins" do resent the tradition and just refuse to attend although the spouse does; the couples seem a lot less close.....
Here's the problem. Your fdh has already faced this challenge. His mother wants to see him. You won't go bc you'll be at your own FOO's..... I don't know if the gathering at your FOO's is huge, but why not alternate Christmas (unless, as suggested, you invite the whole gang to your house to do the cooking and such.)
Already you are forcing your fdh to choose between you and the request of his mother who I assume wants your presence, too; you haven't mentioned any conflicts, but if you decide that your holiday tradition w your FOO is more important than the happiness of your fdh and his family, watch out.....
I don't know how many times my family had dinners w/o my dh, children, and me..... or we arrived late.... bc we had the respect and wanted to be with dh's FOO, at least some of the holidays. Did my parents miss and perhaps resent my absence at times and let me know it? Yep. But yet they didn't make me choose between them and dh.
I guess I just question your concern for fdh and his FOO; why? because it's identical to the situation dh and I are enduring now. DS is caught in the middle, wanting to please us and dw & her FOO who would be incensed if she and children didn't show up. There is no understanding of our traditions, of our being w/o ds and family.
Decide how important your fdh and his family are to you so far as getting along now and in the future; believe me, there will be lots of other conflicts arise!; your future FOO may not be as duct-taped and silent on the subject as dh and I.
I agree with Sapphire, why make such a big deal over one day when there are plenty others near this specific day to be enjoyed and relished. It just doesn't make sense. This 'fuzzy feeling' that a traditional Christmas with all the trimmings brings to our heart must not be confined to a single day only because if we hold on to this, we do suffer so much when families merge. Forget about the calendar date and recreate a wonderful day with love amongst relatives near that 'fatal date'. If you are a Christian you can celebrate Christ's birthday on the 25th and then get on with family celebrations any day after that.
Quote from: justanoldgrandma on November 23, 2011, 11:00:40 AM
Moonchild, I am a MIL who hasn't had Thanksgiving or Christmas with ds since he got "serious" bc the FDIL (then dil) had such strong traditions with her FOO and we didn't want the couple to split up going places, wanted them to be together, so we just said ok (we were informed by dil she would be at her FOOs on all holidays till death, no kidding, so no choice there.) We were so shocked we missed our chance to show alarm but it would have been useless anyway.
Our son thought we didn't celebrate on The DAYs or even close to them as his wife makes the plans (I know, he doesn't get into it and it's probably better that he doesn't) and also bc my mother and ILs were flexible and would alternate, being considerate, so he didn't remember how we sometimes had the family at our house, sometimes at someone else's to accommodate the ILs; I explained once, and he now knows we miss them on holidays but he wants wife happy, so we keep duct-taped; who wants a dil who doesn't want to be w us, makes ds miserable, all of us; better to be just dh and me.....
BTW, when the family does come to visit (not on holidays, of course, other times) we do all get along; dh and I go out of our way to make dil and ds and all happy; there are no arguments or resentments bc we want to keep the family.
I'm requoting what amflautist said bc frankly it's how much fun and great it is w your FOO and frankly, it's that feelings of your fdh and of his family don't matter. You won't go to your fdh's FOO; you'd rather be w your FOO even if it means not being w FDH? Really? Just because it's so much fun and what you always do? Your mother and sister wouldn't consider an alterate date on alternate years? It doesn't make your heart hurt to hear you FMIL say she wants to see her ds (and probably you, too!?) And how fortunate that fdh's mother had to work on last year's holiday so it all worked out! Wow!
My dil's FOO doesn't feel bad for our being alone, so of course dil doesn't either, only of their own celebrations, traditions, everyone falls in line, those who don't go to their own FOO alone! How sad that FOOs don't volunteer to alternate any holiday to make the "outsiders" happy; I hope you reconsider and give up some of your happy times (alternate, ok?) bc believe me, even if your mil or ds say nothing, it isn't a good way to start a marriage, thinking only of your own fun and not someone else's feelings. I'm saying this bc no one must have said this to my dil.
Please reread jdtm's post also..... it's not how many people are at the celebration, how far the distance, how deep the traditions; it's being fair and considerate; FOO should instill this in their children/young adults bc if they are willing to make the to-be ILs and fsil happy at the expense of having to alternate, share, etc., they will have gone a long way towards making the future couple happier.
This is all said not in malice but just in what could happen if you don't consider fdh's feelings and that of his FOO. Believe me, I wish my dil had had this guidance.
Amflutist implies she's glad you won't be her dil. (It's bc your FOO and your enjoyment with them are what counts.) You are my dil.
Quote from: amflautist on November 22, 2011, 05:10:06 PM
Quote from: MoonChild on November 22, 2011, 11:32:05 AM
Good Morning Ladies and Happy Holidays as the season has now begun.
......
For me: I am extremely close with my family, and my Mom, my Sister and I always spend the holiday cooking an extravagant holiday spread and enjoying the day together, and I really just cannot see myself not being with them on the holiday.
.........
However, I also know that I cannot expect FDH to just 'jump on board' with my family celebrations and drop his family.
.......
his mom wanted to see him on Christmas day. Of course I am trying to remind myself that of course a mother wants to see her son on Christmas, but I cannot help but feeling a bit bummed that now I won't be spending Christmas with my FDH; and also a bit torn wondering if FMIL is expecting me to come as well, because I won't be, not because I don't want to, but because I have numerous obligations (granted I do not treat them as obligation because I enjoy cooking SO MUCH) with my own family.
......
I felt a bit cheated and disappointed with Christmas that year (possibly because I felt I had to 'sacrifice' my Christmas morning – arrrrrrrgggghhhh –
OK -- I just checked -- you are not going to marry my DS -- whew!
Carry on then.
Moon - You express a seemingly sincere desire to have a good relationship with your future in-laws. Please give deep thought to both JustanoldGrandma's and Amflautist's comments. They have both been down the road with DILs who favor their own families, give the in-laws second-class status, and the hubbies just go along to get along. That tactic does NOT result in good in-law relationships.
The path you seem to want to take - always going to your FOO, not giving equal time to your future husband's FOO, resenting the thought of missing your FOO's events - is not a path to good relations with your in-laws. So you'll have to make a choice.
1. Be mature and be fair to both families - such as by alternating years, or having everyone from both FOOs at your place -- (after all, your fiance would not expect YOU to ALWAYS go to his FOO for holidays and NEVER go to your FOO - so why should you expect that of him - or for his FOO to put up with that?) or
2. Be so wrapped up in what you want that you don't consider the feelings of your husband's family.
I have a DIL who follows path #2, and I can tell you that if you choose that path, it won't matter after a few years because your in-laws will get so fed up they won't give a rat's rear end if they ever have you for holidays or not. They will only care about their son and tolerate you in order to maintain the relationship with their son.
I don't think that's what you really want - but actions now will have consequences later.
And Pen is another one whose DIL has assigned her second-class status. And I can't imagine anyone more delightful to spend holidays with than Pen, JAOG and Amflautist. Be careful what seeds you are sowing.
Thanks for the kind words, Shelby. I hope I haven't been too harsh with Moonchild and scared her off the forum. To your credit, Moonchild, you have been honest in your feelings! and you don't seem to have bad feelings toward your mil or fdh. And it's great that you have such good times with your FOO; that bodes well that you can get along well w your ILs, too.
How did I get through to my ds that we were lonely on holidays and that I wasn't having a "pity party" as he put it? (Boy, did that make my blood boil!) But I kept my tempter and simply said, "How would you feel if someday your children did this to you?" (Meaning always going to the spouse's for holidays and weekends and vacations and forgetting about them.) I then reminded him that we didn't always have get togethers weeks after/before holidays, (oh, forget M.Day/F.Day/Easter, etc. altogether.) He then understood two things:
1. He had bought into his ILs and dw's traditions, content in the belief that mom and dad wouldn't mind.....
2. That someday he might face the same situation someday.
He talked w his dw and she has made an effort to see us more often which we do appreciate; gotta take what we can.
But it's true: you do sow what you reap, and we do want you to have a happy married life which makes your fdh and ILs happy; it's not good to have your ILs unhappy, believe me! And your fdh needs his FOO as well. You may find, as our dil has, that ILs can be of tremendous help and support (dh and I are)...... it pays off in so many ways!
Spending a holiday with someone who feels cheated and disappointed about having to spend it with me? I'd rather not. That vibe is coming through loud and clear, no matter the social veneer!
I think MoonChild isn't ready to leave the FOO and move into the realm of doing what's best for the larger family. I don't mean that as disrespect, MC, but just an observation. It sounds like the childhood rituals are more important to you at this point in your life and that's the starting point for deciding what you're going to do. If you were my FDIL, and you admitted that you felt lost about missing your family on the holidays, I think I would understand and let you have your time. But I would hope that you'd give me plenty of other time with DS!
My DIL mentioned that she just has to be with her DM on Christmas Day ! to no one in particular , just a statement .
So what if my DS said the same thing ?
He doesn't ..............just does his usual puppy thing and follows where his leash takes him !
I have adjusted , and adapted , and tried not to comment .
Perhaps ONE day I will see my GD and DS on Christmas Day , not holding my breath .
Quote from: Doe on November 24, 2011, 08:20:42 AM
Spending a holiday with someone who feels cheated and disappointed about having to spend it with me? I'd rather not. That vibe is coming through loud and clear, no matter the social veneer!
I think MoonChild isn't ready to leave the FOO and move into the realm of doing what's best for the larger family. I don't mean that as disrespect, MC, but just an observation. It sounds like the childhood rituals are more important to you at this point in your life and that's the starting point for deciding what you're going to do. If you were my FDIL, and you admitted that you felt lost about missing your family on the holidays, I think I would understand and let you have your time. But I would hope that you'd give me plenty of other time with DS!
As soon as I met and fell for dh, I was more than willing to go to his family's home even though there were some complaints from Mom at times; but we alternated dinners and such and there was little problem. I agree with Doe that MC isn't ready to leave the FOO (maybe carrying it further, maybe not ready to be married ((hope not sounding too harsh here.))) DH and I have been married a lot of years and no way did I want to or even now have him go his way and I go mine on holidays, etc., no matter how inconvenient it might be. The vow of forsaking all others, I think means not just other lovers but also devoting oneself primarily to the new union. Let no one ..... asunder (can't remember); ILs are not to interfere w the couple either.
1. I love him and want to be with him, esp. on holidays; we'd both be lonely w/o each other (we are independent people but don't divide up our family even if it's just he and I now.)
2. I wouldn't hurt his FOO any more than he would mine. Granted, we don't have blowups or hurtful times w each others' ILS even though some aren't our favorite people; but we can enjoy the times together anyway.
3. To keep ds and his family happy and (her family from exploding) we don't even suggest they split up their holidays.
Granted, I never had a close sister and/or mother relationship where I had a ball cooking and decorating, etc..... that's a great thing; I have no sister and my mother was all business during holiday preps with me and other relatives helping. It wasn't a happy, happy time; it is more fun sometimes w dh's FOO as the group of women is larger and usually laugh more. In my dil's FOO there are several women and I'm sure it is more fun for her and even for ds as there are more male relatives to watch football with.
However..... to me, so long as people get along, the "who's the most fun factor" shouldn't factor in.... not when it means one FOO never sees their children or gc at Christmas or even close to Christmas. LL, I'm with you; I'll never see my ds, dil, or gc on Christmas Eve or Day or watch them enjoy the presents, go to church with them on an Eve, etc. Dil and her FOO know this and simply don't care or are in denial or think we can survive w/o the family. So I take what I get bc like Doe said, even if I won the battle (and no way could I) who wants a sulky dil and miserable ds who would be paying for making his wife leave the people she loves: her FOO.
As far as our ds coming to see us while dil and gc go to her FOO, I can't see that happening. He'd be feeling guilty and who wants that. But..... we do try to compensate by going to see them and inviting them to see us at other times when the ILs don't have all weekends occupied (and that is hard but we look for openings; and fortunately our visits are good.)
Don't get married unless you are willing to sacrifice some for the person you love and his FOO; time to cut some apron strings; if not, your fdh will find himself being neglected at other times and this is not good..... sorry for the bluntness.
Ultimately, it's between you and your significant other where you decide to go. If spending time alone together is important to you for those days, then by all means do that. Just please make sure to consider that you are doing something that makes both you and your partner happy. Whether that means alternating days, picking a different day to celebrate with one family versus another, or perhaps doing your own thing like a vacation...it is up to you. You and your partner have to be happy with one another and the things you decide to do. It's of little consequence in your relationship whether or not your parents or your in-laws are happy with your decisions or not, because if the both of you are happy, that is where your strength will come from.
Moonchild, as long as you are communicating with your significant other about what one another wants to do and compromise with one another one what is going to happen, you will have no problems.
I may need to re-read Moon's post, but I'm not sure she mentions how imporant the holidays are in her FDH's family.
I have a similar situation as Moon over the holidays with my FOO. However, in my case the IL's live across the country. Initially when we got married MIL joked about us alternating but we let her know, gently, that wasn't realistic. Between plane tickets, days off work, not to mention travelling over the holidays, it wasn't going to happen often.
However, in their case, they don't make a fuss about us not being there and instead we do what we're doing this summer - DH and I will go for one week to the IL's and spend it solely with them. A lot of family time. That's what they want and I appreciate their understanding over the holidays.
My DIL is in no way ready to leave her FOO, demanding every holiday , attendance at traditional family vacations, extended family events, and DS follows right along. With us she is sullen, non communicative and clearly eager to bolt at the earliest opportunity.I'm not even pushing for more time with us, they should however have more time as a couple, they need time to form their own family unit and an important part of that is the chance to form their own family traditions. She feels no need to do that, she still has Mommy's. I don't think the girl was ready for marriage. it's so much more then the fancy wedding, it's mutual consideration. if you're not ready to leave your FOO behind, then by all means don't, but don't get married either, you are setting yourself and everyone else up for big problems.
Tmb........my DIL in a nutshell ! They have moved in walking distance of her Foo. ! She's had the designer wedding , got the baby , my DS is now surplus . They are miles from his workplace , so traveling expenses are escalating ! Looking at what happened 9 months ago with their finances , it doesn't make sense ! She is ecstatic , so that's the main thing , isn't it ? Happy wife , happy marriage ? I hope so as long as the money holds up !...........................Happy Thanksgiving to all my US buddies .........may your blessings be many ...x
Yeah making the " adjustment " so dear son can start his own family is bitter sweet but it's the way things go. BUT giving it all up so his MIL can avoid any loss is infuriating. The kid didn't get married he got adopted. But I know him, and this won't last. I think the same developmental change that pushes sons away from their FOO mandates they form their own. if their wives don't do that, content just to continue their happy chilhoods with Mommy and Daddy, I think the marriages are in trouble. Might explain part of the sky high divorce rate. :o
QuoteBut I know him, and this won't last. I think the same developmental change that pushes sons away from their FOO mandates they form their own. if their wives don't do that, content just to continue their happy chilhoods with Mommy and Daddy, I think the marriages are in trouble.
After 14 years of marriage, our elder son divorced. Can relate totally to above quote. Selfishness and self-centeredness rears its ugly head in many situations.
QuoteYou and your partner have to be happy with one another and the things you decide to do. It's of little consequence in your relationship whether or not your parents or your in-laws are happy with your decisions or not, because if the both of you are happy, that is where your strength will come from.
After almost 10 years of marriage, this quote describes our younger son and DIL. By the way, not only is our younger son's marriage strong but it is also financially better than our elder son's (the price of divorce is high - both emotionally and financially and physically and mentally - and I haven't even touched on the effect of the children or extended family or friends).
Moonchild - I hope we haven't scared you but marriage is not "your way" or "his way" or a "combination of both" but "our way". Even if everyone else disagrees .... And yes, I agree with tryingmybest - I believe the high divorce rate is partially due to this self-centered and immature aspect of those involved (and I'm referring not only to the young married couple but also the entitled baby-boom generation (of which I am a member). Nothing worthwhile is easy, is it?
Perhaps the younger generation have higher expectations than we had , hence their disappointment at how things work out . I have been married ..40 years next year and we haved worked hard to get where we are today , not just.financially but also emotionally , No one gave us anything , if we couldn't afford it, we did.without, so we value it even more . Sometimes couples give up too easily , if.something is worth saving you have to work at it . IMHO.
Hello again and thank you for all of the insight, I apologize as I started writing this response an hour ago and now others have commented on the post, so I may not have a response for those posts yet. I suppose it has taken me a bit to get back here, as I was initially put off by some of the comments - as I was seeking advice to help me gain perspective as to the other side and not to be ridiculed (I felt in my initial post that I was stating my feelings, but also noted that I knew I needed to compromise and so I asked for advice). I suppose that perhaps I should give a bit of further background to the situation: I refer to him as FDH because we are essentially engaged to be engaged (however we are in no rush to get married we just want to enjoy our time together and make sure that we are emotionally mature and financially stable before we embark on that journey). This is our 3rd Christmas together, the first we tried splitting between the two families on the day of, and then last year we did Christmas Eve at his FOO and Christmas day at mine - I supposed I assumed that because last year went so smoothly that we would continue in that fashion. I has also assumed this because his FOO knows that my FOO has many obligations to meet on the surrounding days, so I was a bit taken aback when I heard that FDH's Mom had said that. My FOO is very involved in their church community and always spend Christmas Eve with that community for services (my Mom is the liturgical coordinator so she has to be there for each service and my Dad is the Passage reader and Eucharistic minister) - I would consider that a 'real' obligation that cannot really be altered as most others are not willing to be at church all day Christmas Eve, am I wrong? Additionally, my sister does not live near us so she is only in town for limited days each holiday season (this year she will fly in on the 24th and leave the 26th), and yes, we are extremely close - of course we talk on the phone each day but it is not the same as getting to spend time with her, in my opinion. As I stated before, I was just taken aback when I heard that FMIL (knowing that my FOO cannot really be flexible due to outside obligations) made that statement. And I DO feel like I have been, since FDH and I have been together, making a point of being very involved with his FOO. For the first 2 years we had dinner with his parents every Thursday, and now that our work schedules are a bit different we now only see them every other Thursday for dinner. I feel like I have been making an effort - even though, I will admit, I still do not really feel comfortable when I am there - (this is something FDH and I are working on together - me being involved in the conversations). I do not want FDH to feel torn, after reading some of your suggestions we are going to both discuss what is most important to US, what WE feel obligated to do, and what WE want to do - so that way WE, as a unit, can come to a compromise and OUR own routine going forward.
Just to touch base on some things that were mentioned that could factor in - as far as children are concerned, we are not going to have any, bottom line; another thought was alternating Thanksgiving and Christmas, unfortunately in my situation FDH's Mom always works on Thanksgiving and I do not value Thanksgiving in the same regard as Christmas - growing up my sister and I never found any joy in the turkey day celebrations we were forced to attend because my Mom's FOO felt that, because my parents only made $XXX,XXX.XX each year instead of $X,XXX,XXX.XX we were not good enough (so it was us driving 3 hours each way to be with people for 5 hours who didn't really want us there)?!
Moonchild,
It sounds like you are communicating with your FDH just fine. In defense of your FMIL, she may not have considered what your family's plans were, but would nonetheless like to celebrate the holiday with her son and his significant other. It happens. I have no idea what my in-laws do when I'm not with them.
I do feel like you were overly ridiculed for just being honest about your feelings. I'm sorry for partaking in that. I do appreciate your honesty and I understand your feelings of being torn regarding possibly missing out on your own family's plans when there isn't any other arrangements possible for them. Is it possible that MIL is feeling the same way as you, in that she too doesn't feel she can rearrange things too? I think this is how conflict occurs.
Bottom line: as long as you are talking to your FDH about what you will both be doing together, it will all work out, I promise. If you do miss Christmas with your family, because that is what you and your FDH choose to do, you will have other Christmases to spend with yours, since that seems to be their tradition. Good luck to you. Change is never easy.
Moonchild :
I think the fact that you see you see you FDH foo every week or so is commendable ,
so perhaps spending one day apart won't matter so much .
Before my Ds got married he wanted to spend Christmas here at home , my DIL used to go to
her own FOO , until they moved in together ,after that I never saw him at Christmas .
You know I wouldn't mind if they didn't want to visit me and spend Christmas together alone , however they
always go to my DIL's FOO . Which I now accept , no point complaining , won't change anything .
Perhaps when you are married you can invite both sets of parents to your home , not easy when your parents
are so busy at Christmas .
Here's for a hefty helping of goodwill , and mulled wine , to ease the burden ... :)
You will always have other people who want you to please them! It's good that both families have outside interests and obligations that they are involved in so there won't be any lonely in-laws to feel guilty about.
I think you may think I was ridiculing you before but I truly didn't mean to be. You said that you aren't engaged, right? ("engaged to be engaged") so you really don't have the family obligations yet, since the commitment hasn't been made. I was recommending that you continue with your FOO till you are ready to change and wouldn't feel cheated by having to be with other extended family.
Till you're married, you're not married and anything can happen. You could decide that you aren't going to marry and all this worry and planning would have been for naught. So why not just enjoy Christmas with your family till you'd rather spend it some other way?
Moonchild,
We have a similar situation, except for it's DHs FOO that demands every holiday. They won't give an inch and will not accept anything less than what they want and when they want it -- which is the holiday the same way it has been for over 30 years. New family members traditions and pasts do not matter, even my own DHs feelings did not matter.
It's one of many issues that affect our marriage. While DH and I are on the same page, it's hard for him to even be around his family at all knowing that they are willing to sacrifice mine and DD's traditions for their own. He has lost respect for his siblings and parents.
IMO, holidays are important in a marriage. It's important for husband and wife to be together, it's an intrinsic part of the union. Both FOOs should be honored but the main priority in a marriage IMO is honoring the wishes of husband and wife together.
I hope you can work this out.
I, too, apologize for being critical of your post; I'm glad you could be tolerant of us MILs enough to post back! (I was afraid of your never returning!) And I feel that now that we know more about you that we can get an understanding of a young person such as yourself which will help us as well!
I'm afraid I took your honesty and frankness as being flippant and I'm sorry for that; young people are sometimes more honest and aboveboard than we oldsters who don't tell it as it is. Your second post explained a lot about your situation and I now understand your problem much better. And I think you are wise in getting these conflicts out in the open before engagement, even! Do wish we all had done that!
I now understand that you can't celebrate w the cooking and such on Eve bc of the church obligations. It's to be commended that your parents are so loyal to their commitments. With your sister on a limited visiting schedule, I get that, too.
As Sapphire said, your FMIL may not get it about your limited time w your FOO or is simply feeling left out and wanting to see you both on Christmas Day regardless of your time schedule restrictions; sometimes we MILs get some jealousy or nostalgia or simply feel the need to see the kids when we want; and her schedule is being determined and limited by her sometimes working on holidays. I myself would be ecstatic to see my kids on the Eve and give up the Day if necessary (we get neither); but I can see that a set schedule may not work even if FMIL would be content w Eve bc of her schedule; it's hard to tell!
I have to say that I'm impressed with your willingness to have the Thursday night dinners; you aren't neglecting fdh's family, I can see!
So... I will stop with trying to guilt you into anything bc you have the idea anyway about not wanting FMIL to be hurt; I hope maybe being with FMIL on Eve would still satisfy her; or you may have to send ds over and join him later....... I think so long as she sees that she will be w ds and also with you, she will be happy.
Keep posting and let us know how it comes out if you want! And again, feel free to tell it as it is; I'm glad you weren't too offended by our remarks. Oftentimes I will get carried away and have to retract!
Quote from: MoonChild on November 25, 2011, 06:46:44 AM
I suppose that perhaps I should give a bit of further background to the situation:
. . . .
and then last year we did Christmas Eve at his FOO and Christmas day at mine - I supposed I assumed that because last year went so smoothly that we would continue in that fashion. I has also assumed this because his FOO knows that my FOO has many obligations to meet on the surrounding days, so I was a bit taken aback when I heard that FDH's Mom had said that. My FOO is very involved in their church community and always spend Christmas Eve with that community for services (my Mom is the liturgical coordinator so she has to be there for each service and my Dad is the Passage reader and Eucharistic minister) - I would consider that a 'real' obligation that cannot really be altered as most others are not willing to be at church all day Christmas Eve, am I wrong? Additionally, my sister does not live near us so she is only in town for limited days each holiday season (this year she will fly in on the 24th and leave the 26th),
since FDH and I have been together, making a point of being very involved with his FOO. For the first 2 years we had dinner with his parents every Thursday, and now that our work schedules are a bit different we now only see them every other Thursday for dinner. I feel like I have been making an effort -
Moon - The additional background information is quite essential. Thanks for adding it. You clearly have made efforts towards his family - and I think that is all the MILs on this board want to see. Exactly what day it is shouldn't matter - as long as sincere and fair efforts are made towards both families. And it appears you have always done that -- the Thursday dinners are evidence of that. Frankly, we have always had Christmas Eve with one side, and Christmas Day with the other - with no complaints from either my FOO or DH's FOO. Now that we have a DIL, we do not expect DS and his wife to spend all holidays with us - we know they need to spend time with her family as well as with each other. Our only complaint was when they spent all of Christmas Day with her FOO and didn't even bother to give us a phone call (they were out of town on Christmas Eve so that day was not in play) -- Most FOOs just want an effort made towards them - not control of the young couple's schedule.
I know what it is like to feel attacked on these boards - so a little sympathy for you there - but in fairness to all the MILs who posted, you accidentally omitted some of the most important information - such as your FOO's set church obligations on Christmas Eve and your fabulous efforts towards his FOO with all those Thursday dinners. Had that information been included initially, I think the responses would have been such you would not have felt any lack of support from the MILs whatsoever. (and see how quick they were to re-adjust their thinking after you gave them this great info? ;D
Given your quite extraordinary efforts to establishing a relationship with them -- dinner twice a month, etc., I'd not hesitate one minute to say that you'd see them Christmas Eve, but not christmas day. You are an adult. You get to set boundaries, and yours are not set with a desire to cut them out. Rather the opposite. I'm impressed with the Thursday efforts. Lack of attendance on Christmas Day should be no problem. Christmas Eve is HALF of the Christmas celebration.
Oh, and one other thing - I have a FDIL now and don't have any expectation that she would spend holidays with us instead of her family - I'm glad that she is able to go home and see them.
My own mother was a great MIL. When we were young adults, she never cared whether she got us on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. We were young marrieds, and she would gently try to find out the plans of the FOOs of her DILs and sons-in-laws and plan around that. When we were young marrieds, there were no GPs,, just my parents, the young couples and maybe a baby or two. Some of the ILs still had living grandparents in the area, who would be there for Christmas. My mom always wanted to defer to the schedules of the in-law's FOO if a grandparent would be there because, as she said - there weren't going to be too many more years that her DIL or SIL would have a GP at Christmas, so the DS and DIL, or DD and SIL should give priority to the celebration that included a GP , and my DM and FOO would work around that.
My FOO always had great relations with the various in-laws (no surprise there) - and my DH and I frankly share her philosophy -
I know this is going off on a tangent - but it just occurred to me that Moon's FMIL could do with a bit of flexibility. After all - she gets them on Christmas Eve and many Thursdays.
I agree it was the idea of (seemingly, in this case) "not considering" the MIL for Christmas plans that really hit people's hot buttons. I'm glad you cleared things up Moonchild.
But it also made me realize (again) that we're all dealing with the same kind of person, no matter what their title is. For example, we alternate Christmases between the Families, but EVERY single time that it's 'not' MIL's turn, she puts up a fuss and begs DH to "please just come home for Christmas". As if that wasn't a huge kick in the teeth to my Mom. It's the same idea that some of the DIL's here (and their FOO's) must have, where they only think of themselves, and don't even consider the DH's FOO's feelings.
Another example of this was the first year that my SisIL had a BF. MIL invited his family for Christmas Eve, then invited BF for Christmas dinner, then invited him to meet us on New Year's Eve, and then MIL was FURIOUS that SisIL was going to her BF's FOO's house for New Year's Day supper. Because MIL had "invited" them FIRST and it wasn't her fault that BF's Mom didn't invite them until later. Seriously, the IL's & SisIL had a HUGE fight over it, it was terrible to see.
So to those who's DIL's snub them in favour of their FOO, maybe that's another angle the FOO's are using against them - "We asked you FIRST!"
ARGH - what a minefield. It shouldn't be this hard.
Just wish I was as popular , with invitations coming every which way !
Lancaster - you're popular with me! How about joining us this Christmas?
Aww...thank you sooo much , I'm ok really , hope to see my Foo on the 26th., so will have lots to celebrate then . Thanks for the invite , we would have a great time all WW together . Sending hugs .
Apparently my DIL's DM had a flash of holiday insight after all these years - according to DIL, she realized that while she's basking in the glow of her FOO, having fun in the kitchen with her DDs and GC, I'm alone in my kitchen. Not that she'll offer to trade off T'day every other year, or invite us to join them, but at least she had a moment of what I choose to call compassion.
::) Oh I've Got to ask - what did she say, how did DIL tell you, and HOW did you control yourself? The first two question might ask for too many details, but I'm looking for tips on anger management. LOL,
Quote from: Pen on November 26, 2011, 07:50:27 AM
Apparently my DIL's DM had a flash of holiday insight after all these years
So there is hope -
I keep thinking that one day my DS/DIL will realize that they may be in my shoes when their DD is their age and compassion will come out of that.
I was so good - when DIL told me her DM thought my situation was sad, I calmly answered, "Yes, it is," and continued loading the dishwasher. DIL didn't know what to say!
Yea Pen! Inspirational...and very quick thinking on your part I must say.
Again your self control is amazing! I think I would have been looking for a ....Nah I shouldn't say that! Kudos Pen
Ladies, this post may be moved to Grab Bag or something else, but I'd like to put a little perspective as to what a holiday with family really means. Yesterday (Sat ) we had my family Thanksgiving with such sadness it is pitiful. One of my younger sisters was diagnosed with early onset dementia about 4 years ago. Her husband decided to place her (yesterday after our lunch) and there was such turmoil and strife as to how he went about it that it has torn our family apart. One of my sisters did not show up. I dreamed all night that she went off and committed suicide (which I hope that it was all a dream). It was so pitiful. She made a little speech to us that were there that she had come into a big sum of money and wanted to share it with us, so we could all have a good time before we became sick. (Not a true story at all - about the money.) Now she is behind locked doors and no one can see her for a couple of weeks. I could go on and on, but won't - maybe later. Yes, she is a mother, wife, sister, grandmother, MIl, etc., but that is all irrelevant, as she will never really be any of those things really and truly.
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is it don't matter WHEN you get to see your loved ones, just keep trying to tell them you love them and take whatever little bit you can when you can get it. Our family may never recover and that will be a shame. I do hope we can rise above it and come together as we always have.
I talked to my DD about her spending the majority of the real days (Thanksgiving and Christmas) with us as opposed to her in-laws. Her remark was that they had never said anything about it, but did remind me that they had spent some Thanksgivings with them. I asked her to check with them sometimes and get their ideas on it. They also have to work around her DH's work schedule. She attends many functions without him as he is working on a lot of holidays.
Love to you all. I have leaned so much from the Wise Women here.
Oh Gosh, Fafe,
As if the holidays aren't stressful enough without adding to it! I will say a prayer for your family today and hope your dear sister will find kindness, peace, and some joy where she is now living. So sorry you had to go through this at this time.
Quote from: FAFE on November 27, 2011, 07:16:03 AM
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is it don't matter WHEN you get to see your loved ones, just keep trying to tell them you love them and take whatever little bit you can when you can get it. Our family may never recover and that will be a shame. I do hope we can rise above it and come together as we always have.
I talked to my DD about her spending the majority of the real days (Thanksgiving and Christmas) with us as opposed to her in-laws. Her remark was that they had never said anything about it, but did remind me that they had spent some Thanksgivings with them. I asked her to check with them sometimes and get their ideas on it. They also have to work around her DH's work schedule. She attends many functions without him as he is working on a lot of holidays.
FAFE, this is truly a sad story; I'm glad your family has been together and will continue to see your sister when possible. I can only imagine your nightmare..... hopefully your sister will have some good days with her memory. What a stressful time to have this happen....but it's good that your sister was able to join you at this holiday, sad as it was.
It was kind and thoughtful of you to ask your DD about the time spent with her IL's; some MILs simply don't think about the ILs...... it's good that DD and sil have spent some Thanksgivings with them; they must be understanding people and work around their son's work schedule.
This tragedy with your sister urged you to ask your dd about her IL's and if they mind not seeing her and their ds on holidays. That was very thoughtful of you, realizing that perhaps they had been alone on some holidays and not wanting them to get just whatever little bit they can get when they can get it as that can cause so much conflict and anguish as evidenced by Pen's earlier post. I wish all MILs were so thoughtful of their ILs and asked their dss and dds about the IL's.
Wishing you the best with your sister. I hope her condition improves.....
Thank you all for your heartfelt comments. My sister will never get any better. She is 60 and has been diagnosed for 4 years (had it longer than that) and she is much worse off than my MIL who is 93. Enough of that.
Back to holiday traditions, etc. I never know when my two sons will be coming or for what holiday. I do take what I can, but it is generally Christmas if they come at all. YS told his sister that he was coming for Christmas. OS is leaving his home on Christmas day and driving down from IL. They will have to leave on Thurs. At least we spread the holiday cheer out and make a season of it. When it is convenient, we try to go up to IL in March for GS's birthday. Some times it's ok and at other times, they're much too busy for visits.
FAFE, I'm so sorry you & your family are going through this. Thank you for sharing your sister's story as it puts everything back into perspective. We might want to be grateful for what we get rather than spending our time bemoaning what we see as unfair.
I must admit though, much of my anguish over my DS's "adoption" (thanks TMB) by his ILs is that if DH or I should develop a similar serious health disorder it will be too late to rebuild the close relationship we had pre-DIL/her FOO. DS would be devastated to realize he'd missed out on his P's last good years, but there wouldn't be a lot he could do at that point. Along with being grateful for what we have now, we could work on making things better before it's too late. Of course it takes two to do that...
the young always think they are invincible !
My dear sister too has early dementia , I had to address all her Christmas cards for her this week . Sad thing is
she couldn't remember half the people on her list . It's so sad to see someone you love slowly losing their mind .
I hope its a slow process and she remains with us for a long time yet .
My DS did appear today ( hurrah ) , it was a clear sunny day so unable to make excuses .
What I was mad about was , I mentioned to him a while ago that my FOO were all coming to me for 26th December
(Boxing Day here ). He omitted to mention this to his DW , so when I mentioned it today , blank faces !
Now why did he do that ?
She could have made other arrangements , not knowing ......causing more upset .
Or was he afraid to mention it ?
I said , '' I hope you can make it '' and left it at that .
What I would have liked would be my DIL ask me what I was doing for the days during Christmas .....
Sorry I mentioned this in another thread , but I know you guys read them all ..... :)
ooops laptop gone mad ....sorry :-[
We just got back from our trip for THG with DS/DIL/GC in NY and survived. I posted in a different topic and this is the appropriate place I believe. We earned our badge on this holiday as I said. I had been so concerned that I would end up being expected to do all the cooking. My plan was to entertain the GC and be a support person. Pretty much that is what happened, so cannot complain too much. I don't plan to spend every holiday with GC, but for now, this one really counts in my book. I utilized everything I learned on this site, staying at a B&B and not with DS/DIL/GC worked out good. I do not have many hard feelings, a few, that meals were not cooked for us. I count my blessings that I was included at all for a holiday. Nothing to sneeze at...like I said, we survived. I will make the effort a couple more times to visit them at holidays and then give up the ghost. They will be expected to nurture the relationship with GP or let it rust out. Just an FYI, they are flying from NYC to see DIL's family in Calif for a week at Christmas. We live in WA just a 2 hour flight from San Jose. No plan is made to come see us and DS's brothers who are bachelors. That's how they roll - it is all about DIL and her family. Can't really blame her. They are not visiting them in NYC. They are making the effort to see them. We were told however, that DIL has started seeing a psychologist to help her with parenting. We are grateful for that. Can't be too mad at DS/DIL when you know they are getting help with their mental and emotional problems. Wish you all peace this holiday and 2012.
PS FAPE - I totally am working on letting go of resentments, and allowing the possibility of love to enter in. When you hurt so much it is awfully hard to find comfort. I send you thoughts of peace and thanks for reminding us that it can all go south sometimes.
LL, so sorry to hear about your sister. You must be as much a comfort as anything can be to her these days. She's lucky to have you. Glad to hear about DS coming around today, though. I hope you can get something nailed down for Boxing Day.
Quote from: Pen on November 26, 2011, 10:00:27 PM
I was so good - when DIL told me her DM thought my situation was sad, I calmly answered, "Yes, it is," and continued loading the dishwasher. DIL didn't know what to say!
Sheer brilliance!
A minimalist answer -- which often means total silence -- is always best. Best because it leaves the air ringing with their words, not yours.
MC, I think it's great that you were honest about how you feel about Christmas. I always loved my FOO traditions as well and it's my Mother's favorite holiday. Growing up, all day long celebration, well into the night. I loved, loved, loved Christmas day with my FOO. So I totally understand.
Enter my first DH into my life. His FOO spends Christmas afternoon and evening together. Ruh roh. You mean I can't spend all day on Christmas with my FOO any longer? Can't we go over to MILs on Christmas Eve? DH, my FOO is so much fun on Christmas and you will have a blast! His answer? Whatever you want to do is fine with me. Woo Hoo! Hey MIL, we want to spend Christmas Eve with you (more than fair). MIL: But all the family will be here Christmas day and we will be doing food, presents and everything then. If you come on Christmas Eve, then I'll have to make more food and rearrange things because I try to get pies, cornbread for dressing and things made Christmas Eve night so it's not so bad on me on Christmas. Me: But my family will only be there on Christmas day too. MIL: Well, so will ours. Me: Well DH says it's ok with him. MIL: Well that's because DH is going to go along with whatever you want because he doesn't do any cooking, wrapping, organizing or helping. He knows you are the one that helps with cooking and everything so of course he's going to say "Whatever you want". Me: Ruh Roh.
That really is what happened my first Christmas with DH. I just assumed since we were going to spend all Christmas Eve with his FOO, that was fair. I also took my DH's "Whatever you want" to mean he agreed with me. I really didn't think about what it meant to his FOO to have DH there on Christmas until then. What did I do? I went back to my Mother and told her that as much as I hated missing the rest of the afternoon and evening with them, that we needed to do both so DH could see all his family too. I spent Christmas morning and up til we needed to head over to DH's FOO with my FOO, then drove over and spent the rest of the day with DH's FOO. We halved the day and both were good with it. Would I have rather stayed at my Mother's house all day, you bet. That was the one time a year I got to see my DB and his family (they live 20 hrs away). Would I have had more fun at my Mother's? Yep, because my FOO is tons of fun and his are more reserved and gripe about alot of things. Did I still do this for the 21 years to follow? Yes, I did because I felt it was the right thing to do because when I married DH, he had a family just like I did.
MC, I'm not telling you to do this. You and FDH must decide. I'm simply putting out there to be careful when you guys are discussing it. Don't mistake a "whatever you want is fine" as free reign to do what you want to do totally. Please take his FOO's feelings into consideration. In the long run, your DH will appreciate your efforts to think of him and his family. I think I said before that I am always the flexible one, and DIL's FOO is never flexible. Do they have legitimate reasons to not be flexible like yours does? I have no idea, maybe. I haven't seen any sign of it, but I don't know. But just because I am the one that always gives, doesn't mean it still doesn't hurt my feelings at times to know that I come second on holidays because DIL and her family will not budge. I can't tell you what all I have given up over the last few years to accommodate DILs schedule. That's ok. It was more important for me to see them than to do some other things I had scheduled to do. That's how I feel it's supposed to be and why I always tried to make sure we saw DH's FOO too on holidays. It was more important for him to see his family than to do some other things I had scheduled to do. It's kind of funny how time repeats itself. I did it for my ILs and now doing it for my DIL. Hmmm....kind of ironic.
Pooh, I appreciate your post. I never had trouble w my FOO and ILs bc dh and I would travel from one house to the other for Christmas; usually my FOO had Christmas Day dinner but we'd get there at the nick of time; we never had Eve and Day both at my FOO or DH's FOO but it worked. One year we went to dh's FOO for Thanksgiving bc it was closer and I'd just given birth not long before. So my FOO didn't see baby till Christmas! No complaints from them; they had my sibling & family so they weren't alone. My mother wasn't the demanding type.
I know families miss the members who don't make it to the celebration, but so long as some are there the moms/dads aren't so lonely; at least in my case; we have a very small family so if we have one son come (with other one at dil's FOO) I don't feel lonely. There's no siblings/other relatives/friends for us to invite so it's just us if neither appear; like in the last 8 years dh and I are by ourselves unless we travel a long way to be w dh's FOO (and in bad weather so since we moved further away we rarely see them on the holidays.) So we see our family a week or two before the actual Christmas, and never at our house. Still lonely on Eve and Day; try to enjoy ourselves anyway.
Your statement about the only time you see your DB is at Christmas helped me decide that my dil CAN bear to leave her huge family at the end of the weekend after seeing all on Eve and Day; to come see us even though she may see her extended family members (not talking siblings here) only 2 times a year! (She had volunteered and I'm not going to feel guilty about taking her up on it although it will be inconvenient for them; it's time for our little clan to be together even if it's late on Christmas night and all wake up in the same house the next day, the day after Christmas. It will still be Christmas.)
DH and I have always put the other FOO and dils first, considering what's convenient for them.... maybe this year we'll have a small gathering here..... it won't be as lively or nearly as big as the other FOO but we are our son's FOO (other will be at other FOO, but I'll take whichever can come.....will try for both next year, maybe....) Will just enjoy this one if dil doesn't back out; I've been way too considerate and she's way too insistent w her FOO assuming we don't care as we haven't said anything....
Okay, I have a question. To the MIL's / DM's here, would you rather have your kids & S/DIL's visit for LONGER every other year or would you rather have them for a shorter time, every year?
Because reading Pooh's story about splitting the day reminded me that I feel sorry for my cousins who live close to both their P's & their IL's. They get pulled hither and yon trying to visit everyone in one day. We live out of town, so we alternate our Christmas visits. We may not see our FOO's EACH year, but when we do, we're completely focused on them. And if it's not our FOO's 'turn', of course we call our P's and wish them a Merry Christmas.
I would be delighted alternating holidays with the other FOO! (It may happen w our one son as he lives a long distance away; so this year it's at his ILs; perhaps next year it will be with us.)
I agree it is difficult to be torn from house to house especially all in the same day; in the years when our kids were at home we could spend a day and night at one FOO and the same at the other; it wasn't a hardship on us or them and we all had our fill! With bad weather or illness, we'd skip one FOO but make up for it the next year.
With one of my sons, it will never happen to alternate; his ILs always have the Eve and Day, no matter who marries into the family or has other plans; it isn't even a question there..... alternating would be great for us, we'd be tickled to have every other year; but already been told it won't happen.
Need to know if your FOO and DH FOO are in same city or relatively close. If in same city or fairly close, then it's nice to see everyone for shorter periods every year. If one FOO in California and the other FOO in New York - I see no option other than alternating years.
And finally, when there are small children and the FOOs are FAR away, it is a huge burden on the young family to fly ($$$$ burden) or drive (many hours in car with small kids - my idea of torture) at Christmas or Thanksgiving. And hauling presents long distance? Forget it. I was lucky that both FOOs were local - so we always saw both every holiday. But I have known families with far-away FOOs, and they finally got to where they invited the long-distance relatives to come to THEM - or they had Christmas at home and flew across the country the day AFTER Christmas - that way, didn't have to haul the kids' gifts for under the tree far from home.
It was stressful trying to get everywhere. When the kiddos came along, we started doing Christmas Eve breakfast at DH's grandma's, Christmas Eve afternoon at my real Dads (remember I didn't meet him until my kiddos came along), Christmas Eve night at the other grandmas, early Christmas morning at our house, then leave and head towards my Mother's (a 1 1/2 hour drive) to be there around 10ish. We started staying longer at my Mother's because we weren't there early in the morning, would leave around 3-4, 1 1/2 back to go to DH's FOO for the rest of the evening. I was exhausted after those two days of non-stop running. I'll admit it. It was terribly exhausting. Not to mention I cooked food for two days prior to take everywhere. We would stop at the house, unload presents, load up the next batch and take off again. I will say that is was a good kind of exhausting for me. We got to see everyone, everyone got to see us and the kiddos and although we were dead tired, it made everyone happy. The kiddos loved it because they got attention everywhere we went and new gifts...Lol.
Scoop, I would be happy with either. If there was a distance to travel, I would be understanding of expense, aggravation traveling with kids, etc. and take whatever was easiest for DS/DIL. I have no problem not seeing DS/DIL for a long time, if there was a reason (distance, expense, etc.). I think for myself its that we and DILs FOO live pretty much equal distance from them and yet it was always very unbalanced.
Now, if you put aside expense and all that and just want my honest opinion if everything was hunky dory? I personally would rather have a shorter visit, every year than having to wait two years to see them.
I feel the same , would like to see all my family every Christmas if.only.for a few hours ....
LL, sorry that your sister has that dreaded disease. My sister doesn't even know what a Christmas card is, much less what it is for.
Fafe:
So sorry for your sister too , it's heartbreaking . Some days my sister's fine , then others she's so confused .
It's a horrible thing to witness .
Pooh :
You should've asked Santa for a helicopter .
I can't think of anyone I know who would do that at Christmas , just to keep everyone happy ,
but then that's just who you are ...... :)
Shoot, I can barely remember to put gas in my car, let alone maintain a helicopter! ;D Thanks LL. I guess I should count myself lucky because of all those places we went every year, they were all happy, fun events...except MILs. And most of the family at MILs were good people and nice to me. It was just MIL that I clashed with. Since it was the last event, and I was all loaded up on fun and fudge, it made it easier to be nice and just say, "Yes, I would love some tea MIL."
I will say that I would do all that again, if I still had little ones, even as stressful as it was. Both my Sons are still very much in contact with all of those people as adults and have great memories of Christmas with all sides of the family. They still talk about their GGM's and GGP's that have now passed and the times at their houses on Christmas. So for me, it was totally worth it.
I have good memories of going to my grandparents different houses the weekends before and after Xmas. It would have never occurred to me until reading here that I was missing anything if I didn't go as a child to their house on the very day of the holiday. We never did that and no one was unhappy. Each celebration was special and it wasn't like we had just one day to look forward to, we had multiple days.
So, I guess for me, that's why I don't understand the reluctance to celebrate on a different day. It can still be just as fun.
Quote from: Scoop on November 28, 2011, 08:39:06 AM
Okay, I have a question. To the MIL's / DM's here, would you rather have your kids & S/DIL's visit for LONGER every other year or would you rather have them for a shorter time, every year?
You know, I would rather have whatever works for them. I'm not that attached to holiday traditions and like to have variety so I can roll with it.
I actually like a different day too. It drags the celebration out a bit and really makes it more of a season. This year, the celebrations were not on Thanksgiving at all and my in-laws got sick, so our plans were cancelled with them. We had Thanksgiving to ourselves and our celebrations took place the week before and the week after. It really felt like a holiday this year, instead of just cramming everything in here and there. I felt as if we had so much more quality time with loved ones, all because no one else could manage to have the holiday on "THE" day and thus no conflict. Shopping for groceries was managed so much better and we were able to easily work around the crowds. I hope we get to do the same thing again next year.
Please ladies, I need input. I have a 24 yr. old son with a beautiful 4 yr. old little girl....my only grandchild. They live in my town, but son and ex-girlfriend separated 2 yrs. ago. Strangely, they spend most free time together to maximize time both being w/ daughter. From day 1, it has been all about HER family. I cannot understand why my son wants to hurt me...I see GD on ave. 4-5 x a yr....occasions when he can collect gifts for himself or GD. Two wks. ago I asked if GD could come over someday soon to bake Christmas cookies...even said he could stay w/ us. She & I have a wonderful time doing crafts mostly...& all I want is more quality time. I swear I'd be happy w/ a couple hrs. once a mo.. at this point. I haven't heard yet if the cookie thing will happen even tho I texted him once as a reminder...no response. Also, I have bought Christmas gifts...as I know they will be "collected" and am starting to feel more & more foolish about even giving.
I need some wisdom here.
Jay, I don't feel that your ds wants to hurt you since you haven't mentioned any fallings-out with him;
he probably is just going along w ex-gf's FOO bc it's what she wants and from experience, I can tell you that if the FOO has a lot of dinners and traditional get-togethers, the father will naturally fall into that bc that's what he may hear; "your daughter needs to come here with her family." It seems in most cases whoever has the most people at the gathering and/or long-standing tradition of being at that home will see the gc as matter of course.
If you don't have a tradition of family get-togethers, ds may not realize how you long to see gd, holiday or not.
Can you have a short but simple talk w ds, telling him how you long to see gd and how you long to do the crafts and cookie things with her and how she enjoys doing these things with you. Try not to mention how much the other FOO has with her bc he may just defend them and think you are jealous (and that I understand! but that won't help your case.)
As mentioned in other posts, invite gd and ds to your house on a certain date to spend some time with you and dh; perhaps he doesn't feel you want to see him, as well, and that might make him less willing to drop gd off to be with you; I would call bc texting is sometimes easy to be ignored....
You may be seeing ds anyway; but it would be good to have ds and gd both at your house for dinner (perhaps you won't have Christmas Day, etc.; any day he isn't at work, etc.); if ds sees how well you all can get along, he might later be more willing to let gd spend time alone with you....
Do you get along w his ex gf at all? Would she be willing to come along also just to not exclude her; I don't know if she is monopolizing the family time (being w FOO) bc of not getting along with your FOO or not.... but if ds and ex are together w gd a lot, would it be feasible to invite all 3?
I know you still want to give gifts to gd and ds but it is hurtful not to get to spend time w them as well.
We almost always go to each other family functions together. DH doesn't do kids birthday parties (neither do I), baby showers, or bridal showers. I just leave him and DS at home. For Thanksgiving, we take my grandmother to Mass and have brunch. We go to MIL's for lunchordinner. My dad's extended family gets together either the Saturday before or after. For Christmas, My MIL goes on a cruise will one of her brothers. So we do x-mas the week before. Every other year my brother and niece fly to visit the family here. The next year we go visit them.
We spend every July 4th with my extended family. It is/was the only time, what is left of, my mother's family gets together. This year was the exemption due to flooding. We usually spend 4-6 weeks of the summer with my brother.
A lady I used to work with plans every holiday around her daughters schedule, to the exclusion of her DIL and grandchildren. Her DIL and grandchildren informed her this year that from here on out, if they don't get two weeks notice, they won't show up for holidays.