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Oh Margaret, I love it, I really do.  But yours is the absolute best!  Thanks for taking the time to write me something so beautiful.  I do love you, Margaret.  And Pooh, I think your diagnosis sums it all up and should be written into the psychiatric manuals.  I would add Rank Meanness to that one, in some cases.   I do believe I'm coming to grips with it this time. 

Yes, and I do thank you,  Pam.  I am a little familiar with this.  When I was reading Josh Coleman I also read some excerpts from it.  I think it would suffice to say that there is a disorder.  I just can't let the diagnosing of that eat up another 30 years of my life, trying to pigeon hole it.  I have to throw the ball back in his court this time, I'm afraid.  My thinking popped out of the box a little on this one and I put a new spin on it.  I began to think that if something as small scale as this little slip of the tongue was justification in DS's eyes to tongue lash & estrange me again, then maybe I haven't been as big a loser as a Mom that I always thought I was.  When I responded to DS, I wrote  basically, 'ok, I made a mistake.  People do make mistakes.'  This was new for me.  I am certain that I have not lived my life in any way with malice aforethought.  I have made mistakes, used poor judgement at times, been locked up in my thinking and problem solving skills when the dc were small. often, for sure, but malice aforethought - never.  That isn't enough for DS.  He wants his pound of flesh.

Pooh, I can't hold on to anger, I never could.  At times I could take a pitchfork to him, but it doesn't last long.  He'll always be my DS, but I won't always be so fragile and susceptible to his barbs.  What I struggle with most, is the complete absence of anyone to tell me what to do, or not to do, or to say or not to say.  It is always flying by the seat of your pants, and always second guessing yourself.  I'm thinking now, hey I just call it as I see it and do the best I can, the rest I roll over to greater minds than mine.

Oh BoxofChocolates, I am so sorry.  Your letter sent a stab of pain into my own heart.  Your post will probably get moved into a new topic of its own, so you can receive a lot of welcomes and the support and encouragement from a lot of others here who and stood in your shoes.  When I got to the final sentences in your letter, I really heard you and understood all too well.  In my own case, also having a 30 plus year old DS with whom I have a long and painful estrangement, I have been right there with you.  I really think that tired and worn out mood is less painful though than the more active mood.  I fluctuate a lot.  I've often wished I could just stay in that 'too tired to move' stage.  Sorry I'm rambling here.  I also understand how these triangles form, they rise up and then they disintegrate.  It can go back and forth according to what mood they're in.  The thing is, here is a place just for you.  You don't have to be a good girl here, or a great Mom, or always right or perfect.  You don't have to justify or blame yourself or have a perfect memory.  You can be yourself and find some comfort and release in that. 

Doe, you write the most amazing things.  In a couple of sentences you say what I couldn't in volumes.  I don't know where you get all this! 

Grammie, I think that 'box' may be standing in the way of your own peace and reconciliation and new life.  It is a grand thing, no doubt.  An amazing thing, even awesome.  I never imagined any mother could have such a collection, and I admit I had a few moments of gnawing envy when I read this, and I had to go back and read it twice because I didn't get it the first time.  I would be happy to have three cards to cherish.  (I actually have two from DS.  This covers 32 years.  The first one is kindergarten, and it is Mothers Day with his hand prints.  The next one is boot camp, and I have that one framed in a gilt frame on the mantle.  that's it.   that's all I got.)  Well, I think if I were you I'd give hearty thanks to the great God above for the blessings all those years brought to me, and I'd just sing away and figure that if need be, I had enough gas to finish out the trip.  I think that any kid who had that much devotion to his DM will be back, and it may be that he was a little too devoted and is feeling the need now to push himself away and get a growth spurt of independence, I don't know I'm only reaching and speculating.  I think its probably just preoccupation more than anything personal, the impersonal cards.  I always figure at as long as something arrives, they still know you're on the planet and some part of them actually cares.   But all said and done, you did a good job as a DM and now you have to have some confidence in all that and wait for the next phase.  Luise said it all only too well except a lot of it was over my head, but I still get it.  We change, all of us, and life doesn't stand still. 

I remember recently one much more eloquent writer here stating that opening up their topic was 'like Christmas morning'.  It is to me also.  I read the letters over and over, when I get down and feel like I'm caving.  It revs me up again.  I also think about your saying (Firelight) that upon observing a young mother with her little ones all joyously gathered around her, how you hoped she would never have to find herself going through the heartbreak of an estrangement.  Because you never know, it is a risk we take having children.  You said it so well.  I never imagined in a million years that my life would turn out this way.

I would have also been open and happy for someone to  help me in the job search.  I knew right away that I had crossed a line, Firelight, and even though my DD was delighted to have me help her search, I should have know my DS would turn it on me somehow.  One of those duh moments but I wised up.  He didn't seem put out over job link thing,  however, as much as he was just looking as always for me to slip up in some moral way.  So he could call me on it.  I have always had more than a full plate with this child.  He isn't typical.  Nothing was ever easy or logical with him.  I know that his complexities and his convoluted way of viewing the world are challenges that are bigger than I am.  I observed when I asked him about possibly having to relocate with job (during his grad party) that finding something that would work with his dog (his rescue dog he's had about 3 yrs now) he just casually answered that 'he'd just get rid of her'.  And he meant it, he didn't bat an eye.

I have my DH and other family members who concur, and have the same issues with him.   This helps me put it into perspective.  I also know that as bad as I hate it, I have to be the scapegoat and allow myself to be an illustration to him that there are consequences to bad, hurtful behavior.  If I cave in again and try and reconnect to him, I am reinforcing that there are no real consequences.  Will it make any difference?  Probably not.  But I still have a moral responsibility to do the right thing. 

Grammie, I like that line.  I hope I can also put it in my file and find it when I need it.

I realize what you are saying Didi but if I don't try and retain my anger for at least a while it is  likely I'll regress smack back into self recrimination.  I can already feel it dogging me.  I don't stay angry, it isn't my nature.  Like Doe said, I am really tired too death of analysis, of trying to figure our if I should zig when he zags.  My door is open, it has always been open.  Life would be so much simpler if people would just put the cards on the table. I realize that my DS's style of communication is no doubt like a foreign language to me.  I realize he has a complex personality.  Maybe he doesn't even regard it as sarcasm or rudeness or disrespect, how can I know?  Maybe I over reacted, who knows?  I admit all this is possible.  But if this were the case with my DD, or DH, or even a sis that I was put out with, or had offended, the issue would go back and forth until it was resolved.  With my DS, he has no problem whatsoever with shutting the door in my face forever and not looking back.  I am always canned, it seems.  He holds the ace, always, and that card is my entire past, who I am and how I've lived my life, I guess, or more likely the selective memories he has and the spin he has on them... 

I am a person who believes that you should always make peace, and if possible restitution, that its a parent's responsibility to take the leadership in this.  I have trouble, however,  knowing when it is time to say enough.   

Elise and Margaret, you are two special people to me.  Yes it is an active process, Elise, and there can be a lot of miles to cover.  I know that you understand.  Over all these years of my DS's adulthood, I have been willing to accept having to do all the work of relationship stuff.  I grew inured to not receiving any b/d, Christmas, m/d acknowledgements, etc., you name it.  I felt that just persistent, consistent love and support would eventually erode this apathy and angst.  But my 'one toe over the line' now is contempt.  My DS's response to my error came in the form of sarcasm and hatefulness, which is just rank contempt, and I'm not willing to allow this to bleed over into  my life anymore.  My children can feel what they want about me, and judge the past however they see fit, I don't expect their adoration or even approval of me, but the one thing I do expect is just plain human decency.  If I were an ax murderer I don't think contempt is fair play.  I have never regarded my children with contempt, nor have I ever communicated contempt to any one else as far as I know. 

Grammie, my take on it is that the onus is on your DS to earn back (or even earn) your trust.  As much as possible, just view it as a possibility and leave it at that.  When someone has deeply hurt you and violated trust, it takes more than a greeting card to reestablish trust.  It takes Time.

Quote from: herbalescapes on August 11, 2012, 06:51:13 PM
I think your title pretty much sums up your situation.  You wrote your sand castle crashed.  Sand castles never last.  Either the tide comes in or another beach goer runs through or it rains or.....

I think deep down you knew something would happen, maybe not the specifics of what actually did, but something.  And I think deep down you know you are strong enough to deal with it all.  It may not be ideal or pleasant, but we're all stronger than we think.  Take some deep breaths, let go of the bewilderment, and focus on the positives in your life.  Good luck.

Thank you, Herbal..   profoundly written.  You know there comes a time on this site that we have to put on our big girl pants and grow up.  We can't keep getting bottle fed, and I am thankful to receive my strong doses of medicine in addition to the nipple which we all need now and then. 

I went to bed sad last night, but I woke up angry.  I opened my email and there was a message from my sis saying hey, why don't we do some kind of a nice party for ds's grad?  I thought to myself, what planet are you on?  This is how much in touch my family is with me.  I wrote her back to go for it, but she would have to talk to DS as I'm not communicating with him anymore.  I thought over the 'actual 30 years'  of receiving really nothing but contempt from DS.  I know this is hard for many of you to believe who read this, but it is the truth.  It started when DS was two years old, before I ever made any mistakes and was just a decent, caring, well intentioned mother.  He mimicked his DF even to the point of his actual countenance, and this is how its been all his life.    As DH says, DS is a user, but I think more accurately just a taker.  He gives nothing in return but barbs of contempt as he is in the mood.  Like all cowards, however, he throws grenades over the wall.  He won't engage in face to face combat, if he has an issue with me.  I am fed up now.   As far as I'm concerned, I have only one child, one.  A daughter.   And from now own, barring some kind of sincere apology and attempt to reconcile from DS (ahem...bull doodoo) I will live my life as if I have one child.  I will focus my love and generosity when I choose to on my DD and my GC.   My DS is only an acquaintance in my mind right now... no I lie!  even less than an acquaintance because I would go the extra mile to help even an acquaintance.  --There,  I've said it.  I'm not such a nice lady after all.  I'm sorry Luise I know we're not supposed to be negative but I have dumped out the truth.  From this point on, if DS ends up in a tent because he can't put a roof over his head due to his arrogance and selfishness, he can lie there until his back side sprouts roots for all I care .  I won't rescue him again.  If he writes me about some impressive job interview coming up, I will only respond that I wish him the best and I sincerely hope he gets what he deserves and is entitled to.  Luise, if you have to edit this please just delete my entire post.  I think I really said all this for my own said most of all.  It felt darned good to assert some power. 

Deb, you are in good company here.  We understand, and are all at one time or another here mired up in the same painful emotions.  I won't bore everyone with going over my story again in this post, but if you read you will see that I along with many others here have the same struggles as you.  We learn to try and live our lives one day at a time and be thankful for the little things, even if some of the big wish list items are out of our reach, at least for the time being.  You will get a lot of help and support here, kindness and understanding.  This is healing, and will help you move past this stuck place.  You will find that your children aren't the only ones in the world who must occupy the primary place in your heart.  Its a big world out there, and we are the only ones who have the power to decide to get up out of our pain and live it.  You can do it, and it can start today for you.  REad here and get to know all the people on this site, and it will help you lots.  Love

Jane, I'm happy for you, truly happy.  I was so touched about your laying to rest your gd's pet and the special time and relationship you're building with her.  Go Granny Go!!   And I am also delighted about your 'part time job'!  I , too, am  going in a new direction, and I'm excited about it.  This week I start my new volunteer job.  I am starting up a 'reading room' at an Assisted Living facility here.  I have been going through books and ideas like crazy, and I am so anxious to meet my small group and see where it takes us.  Also, starting in Sept. I am going to get to work in preschool at my Church.  It will be a new thing for me to be involved with very small children.

We have to manage to live our lives, alongside hurt and disappointment, and in doing so pull some of the sweet out and nourish ourselves and the others who want what we have to give.  This isn't an easy job description, simple but not easy.  Stories like the one you just shared help inspire me to keep moving forward, in spite of my disappointments, and be thankful for the things I have.  Jane, whenever a low day comes, and they will come, remember the joys you had this week and make it happen again for yourself.  You can do it.

Your DD is now proceeding onto Plan B.  I have seen this happen over and over with my DS.  Once you take some kind of stand, she tries to rally forces against you, and she uses forces that she knows are very favorable to make you weaken and second guess yourself, and to also make you look bad,  hence diverting the attention away from herself.  My DS uses my DM, and it has sent me over the edge again and again.  Stay firm, Didi, because you are in the right.  My opinion is your sister will cave much quicker than you ever did.  As hard and as painful as it is, at least you can feel confident that this isn't a gray area and you don't have to take on any of the blame or responsibility of your DD's actions. 

Quote from: Pooh on August 09, 2012, 11:50:05 AM
I offered mine a $8,000 bedroom set (which she took), a second bedroom set (nothing fancy), a washer and dryer (which she took), a living room and dining room set complete with china cabinet. Then she went off in a tizzy because I wouldn't let her have my cherished grandparents antique bedroom set that was the only thing I wanted to keep out of my entire house. 

Ooooohhh.....my bad!

Yikes!  I think most of us here were hatched by the same goose.  Did she even leave you the broom to sweep up with, Pooh?

I am so touched by all of your responses.  ' Thank you ' isn't a big enough reply and I didn't expect such an outflow of kindness.  I do thank all of you for the encouragement and wisdom, it has helped me a lot.  Some of you here are in many ways closer to me than a sisters.  I know your stories and that you've walked this excruciating and dreadful path also.  Poor dear Didi, your daughter has broken your heart I know.  I ache for you.  Sad, Keys, Jane, I've been with you for a long time.  We've shared our ups and our downs.  'Normal' people take in volumes of information from those they are in a relationship with, and dotted through it are lots of things said that would have been best left unsaid because we are just human beings and fly by the seat of our pants, we aren't gods or paragons, but we relate to the person as a whole and have to have a pretty strong frontal attack to take offense. 

I am seeing more clearly now the complex nature of my relationship with my DS.  (Grammie, DS is 32, even though he just grad and he was in military for 10 years, so he's well into adulthood).  Yesterday my DH put this on a level that I could understand.  He said he had seen me following this same pattern with DS for 15 years, the same thing over and over, and the same results.  He said that DS bites me.  And that is a perfect illustration.  Its like having a biting dog in the family, however the immediate family is usually immune to the bites of the dog, but not in my instance.  With my DS, it always seems to come out of nowhere.  It strikes very fast and briefly, but effectively.  And like being bitten, you are in such shock, I mean you can't hardly believe this has happened and at first you don't even feel the pain because of the shock, but then it sets in and gets very sore for a long time.  If my DS took the time to ream me out in paragraphs or face to face confrontations, I could stand it much better because I would at least feel like a human being that someone had an issue with and was demanding some kind of restitution or resolution.  But he strikes me very fast and hard, and then turns away.  This is what has devastated me all these years. 

Thank you Doe, for the word picture about the walls not being behind me.  I have the option of turning around and getting out of the room.  This is what I have to do with my DS or he is going to destroy any and all that is left of my life.  (Thank you SCW, stop the power outage).  Something went terribly wrong with him way back, I am not going to be able to figure that out and I am never going to be sure to what extent he realizes what he is even doing, or how accountable he is for being so hurtful.  But I think my response to the next possible crisis should just be 'good luck'.

Luise, thank you for again saying just the right thing.