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"Welcome to WiseWomenUnite.com -- When adult children marry and leave home, life can sometimes get more complex instead of simpler.  Being a mother-in-law or daughter-in-law can be tough.  How do we extend love and support to our mothers-in-law, adult children, daughters-in-law, sons-in-law, and grandchildren without interfering?  What do we do when there are communication problems?  How can we ask for help when we need it without being a burden?  And how do our family members feel about these issues?  We invite you to join our free forum, read some posts... and when you're ready...share your challenges and wisdom."


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Messages - Bamboo2

136
Grandchildren / Re: Blindsided...
June 03, 2016, 09:48:06 PM
What great news, Pooh!  You've really filled your life with new purpose and adventures.  Thanks for updating us on the new business and activity with the GC!  Bet you're exhausted when your head hits the pillow every night!
137
I second that! And I might just follow that great example of putting money into projects or ventures that have a special place in our hearts, rather than saving all of it to give to AC.  I don't think it benefits most of us to get a lot of money that we haven't earned, anyway. Not saying that I don't want to leave my AC anything, but hope to spend it down to a reasonable amount by enjoying my remaining years with DH, and by contributing to or investing in causes we believe in.
138
Wow, Proverbs girl, this is a quandary.  I'm sorry for your dilemma.  I have not been through this kind of experience. The only thing I would do is intentionally limit my time with MIL and suggest that DH spend more time with her but without you.  Short, infrequent visits talking only about mundane things. Change the topic if she brings up something you don't wish to talk about.  Make an agreement with DH that you will accept no further money from her and that HE will communicate that to her. 

I remember reading something by Green Thumb about not justifying, arguing, defending or explaining (JADE) your behavior/decisions/opinions with her.  It sounds like she just may be looking for an argument and trying to bait you. The choice to take or not take the bait is yours.  If you see it for what it probably is, manipulation and control, maybe it will be easier to sidestep or ignore it.  Let her comments fall on deaf ears or change the subject, leave the room, do nothing to exacerbate the drama she is provoking.   Bland and boring responses are best.  Again, I'd limit my time with her to the extent possible.
139
I'm sorry for your pain. My take would be to concentrate on yourself and your loss right now.  Tensions are high; I'd find ways to not engage in or react to anything your son says that could lead to anger or blame.  Is there some supportive person you can bring with you?  It might help to keep your contact with your son brief. Seeing him tomorrow does not mean you need to continue accepting toxic behavior from him. You know what you need to feel good - detachment -  and I'd maintain that healthy, life-affirming boundary. You could check out threads about detaching with love/medium chill under the Helpful Resources section.

We are with you in spirit.
140
Love this inspirational reply, TG  :D
141
Welcome, MissSubaru, and I'm sorry to hear of your struggles with your adult children.  The first thought that came into my head when I read your story is something Luise is fond of saying: you can't make sense of the senseless.  Additionally, you can drive yourself to distraction trying to make sense of it and apologize for unknown reasons in an effort to change relationships. You have found that this does no good, and there is no self-respect in it.  You made a courageous step in moving to Florida.  Good for you!  Time to focus on yourself now and those who want to be around you, and to find the joy in life where you can.  I think you will find a lot of stories on this forum that you can relate to.  This website is chock full of wisdom and comfort.  I have read most every thread in the sons and daughters section, and trust me, it took months to get through them all.  There are a multitude of  "ah-hah" moments. (I've written down some of my favorites and occasionally reread them as needed). I encourage you to read some more threads; there is strength in numbers and a sisterhood of moms who have been in similar circumstances and find their way through them.  You will, too.  Hugs!
142
I love Luise's response to your wonderings, Pen, and I think that you answered your own question by saying "It's about taking care of myself while honoring my dad."  Your don't have to be clear on the motivations for the visit in order to follow your gut.  It is commendable to take along friends who have your back and give you strength at a vulnerable time.  I often have a tendency to regress and revisit old issues internally when visiting my dad, or even calling him.  I get anxious before every trip and put off making phone calls.  It usually goes better than I think, and shorter is always better.  Then I see or spend the rest of my time visiting my mom, with whom I feel I can let my hair down and relax. This is what your friend will presumably offer you.  Be kind to yourself, and remember that you're doing the best you can.  You've got this, Pen! Sending a big hug your way!
143
Grandchildren / Re: Any Suggestions ...
April 05, 2016, 07:01:28 PM
Thanks for sharing this great news!  It's a good reminder that none of us knows what the future holds.  Just when you think there is no hope, a ray of sunlight appears.   :)
144
Green Thumb, hats off to you.  Isn't it great to be fully absorbed in something that is just for yourself?  And to get recognition from young people has to be just icing on the cake!!  After our dear son leaves the nest in a year I hope to get back to foreign language study. I love to audit classes with 20 somethings  :)

Luise, you're such a generous person, giving of yourself so openly and honestly.  And Pen, I agree that we WW have great gifts to share.....glad to hear that you are discovering and enhancing yours.

Trailblazing Girl, you are so right that we need to break out of the mother role and embrace our personhood, as we did before we had kids.  There is a rich and rewarding life on this side, too.  Maybe even more so, because we have learned a few things since then!
145
Grab Bag / Re: Today Was My 89th Birthday
March 10, 2016, 12:14:59 PM
I wish you a very happy birthday and 90th year of life.  What a milestone!  You are an inspiration of living a genuine life, with wisdom, grace, forgiveness, self-respect and equanimity.  I hope to live as long as you so I may one day reach these goals as well.  Your life is a blessing to so many, and you affect lives every day.  A living legacy!  You have touched my life profoundly even though I've only "known" you for a short time.  Imagine the countless others you have touched throughout the years, in person and online.  Many blessings to you in this 90th year.
146
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: A dilemma
March 08, 2016, 06:57:21 PM
OK, I have to admit that you are both right.  Green Thumb, what you said about enabling turns out to be spot-on. Unfortunately, I think what I was wanting to do was loan or give her money to support her decision to leave him, but in essence to try to control the outcome.  Which is still her business. And I clearly have no control over her choices.  Apparently I am more controlling than I want to admit.

Sadly, it seems she is probably still seeing the BF, as we saw an online charge at a favorite restaurant of hers for two people the other day (This from a girl who was so broke that she asked me to buy her groceries a couple of days before that restaurant charge...what a sap I am). There are a few other clues of late that lead me to believe it is not over.  She has chosen to make so many boneheaded decisions with money that we CANNOT in good conscience throw our good money after her bad.  She is on her own. We will not even loan her money right now.  The fact of the matter is that he owes her money for rent for the last few months (at least) and until the lease is up.  She should go to HIM demanding money.  How will she learn that if WE bail her out?  Now I am sorry that I took her out grocery shopping.

And as of tomorrow we are ending our connection to her online banking so we won't know anything more about her spending.  We don't want to know.

Thank you for your wisdom. 
147
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: A dilemma
March 05, 2016, 02:20:16 PM
Just a postscript to my last post...
My husband and I talked this afternoon, and here is what we are willing to do for her:

Directly pay her car insurance and electric bills this month, but not the non-essentials like phone, cable and wireless. This is a one-time loan.

Give her a small portion of the money from a relative, who had given us some money for her college education or whatever we deemed necessary, to use for the car repair. That way it is not our money, per se, but the relative's money, which makes me feel better, even if it is only a matter of semantics.

My remaining dilemma is whether to mention her bad choices leading her to this outcome or not go there.  And whether to give her advice about future living arrangements and what she can realistically afford. 
148
Hi Lucy, and welcome back!
I posted something earlier but it didn't show up...hmm..
Anyway, I second what Kimmie said about enjoying that cheesecake!  Let's make it a WWU cheesecake party!

It sounds to me like you are ready to let go of the abuse and live your own life.  Bravo for you! You matter, and that is what you told your daughter, loud and clear. I read something that Luise wrote about saying what you want for yourself even before you believe it yourself.  It is called self-respect and protecting your own emotions.  Trust your gut! If and when that daughter can treat you respectfully, she knows where to find you.  In the meantime, I predict sunny days ahead for you, no matter what the weather is like outside.  With delicious cheesecake, anything is possible  :)
149
Hi Kimmie,
Welcome! While I don't yet have a SIL or DIL (thank goodness!), I do have some thoughts about your questions.  First of all, it is probably too soon to know what the future relationship will look like with your future DIL.  It is too bad that your son could not be honest with you about their current living arrangement, but knowing your values I think he was just trying to avoid disappointing you (I don't think he is the first adult son who has tried to avoid disappointing his parents by omission). He may not feel secure enough in his adulthood to take a stand that he knows is different from what you would want.  I'm sure it was hurtful not to know about their engagement beforehand, while the future in-laws did.  That would bother me, too.

As far as doing things with the future DIL, it is nice that you made several overtures with her. You were smart to give her some space.  They did invite you to dinner after a couple of months.  It is probably not what you expected or hoped for.  But it is something.  And as for the wedding, maybe you can ask if there is something you can do to contribute or help with.  But the wedding is theirs, and they get to decide the guest list.  I wouldn't touch that one if they are footing the bill themselves.  Again, in my opinion, don't have any expectations that they will invite people that you think should be there.  It is YOUR expectations that will bring you down.  As I have read on this forum many times, we are the only ones that control our expectations, and having unmet expectations of our adult children will only bring US down.  They are really only our wishes, preferences, or desires, but nothing more. We need to let them go. Our adult children get to make their own choices now, and so do we. 

You asked if their words and actions matched or not.  Perhaps not, although they may disagree, but maybe the words are an expression of hope for the future.  None of us knows.  Plus they are now planning a wedding, working (I assume), and figuring out a lot of things as relatively new couples living together do.  All that takes time and a lot of mental energy.  They may have said they want your advice, but I would tread lightly in that area and only offer it if asked. 

I wish you well!
150
Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / A dilemma
March 05, 2016, 08:46:44 AM
Hi Wise Women,
It's been five weeks since DDs BF (or dare I say "ex"??) moved out of their shared apartment.  DD is struggling to pay bills, especially since she had an income gap for a couple of weeks.  She said she is down to her last $100 after paying the rent today.  She has not YET asked for money, but we know it is coming.  Also, her car is probably going to require some work soon.  OK, those are HER problems, not mine.  So why do I feel like this is going to become my problem soon?  Her foolish choices, right? Just as an FYI, I took her out to dinner recently and she asked if I would buy her some groceries, which I did.  I don't think she is still in contact with the BF but I know some of his things are still at "their" apartment and I noticed both he and his mom had "liked" something she posted on FB recently. (I know, I should quit looking at FB!) So I honestly don't know the story, and she doesn't want to say anything about him or their relationship these days.

Anyway, I want to be prepared for her eventual question about us loaning or giving her money.  She still owes us half the money for the last car repair, which I had later offered as a gift, but she insisted she wanted to pay us back.  By next week she will have more bills coming, some necessary and some not (like cable, Netflix and wireless).  I'm burned by her poor spending habits over the years and wasteful racking up of miles on her car.  And I admit some of this is my emotional reaction to her sense of entitlement (only eats at nice restaurants, buys the nicest furniture, fine clothes, apartment with modern amenities...), driving BF to and fro, driving to our city weekend after weekend only to see HIS family and not us, and her wasteful going out to eat and treating him about every single time. 

Can you see how when she asks me for money, even if it is a loan, it is going to provoke an emotional reaction in me?  I know...I am responsible for my own emotions.

The other day she told me she is planning to get a cheaper apartment once her lease is up, but the rent will still be about half her income.  She is trying to decide between a place with an indoor pool or one that accepts dogs, because of course she wants a dog and has historically been unable to delay gratification. 

Please tell me what I should say.  Here are some specific questions I have of you:

Should I give her advice about how to spend her money?

Should I let her know that her choices about spending and about having a deadbeat boyfriend have put her in the situation she now finds herself in? 

Should I bring up that her choices to put so many miles on the car have caused more wear and tear and led to things breaking down?  And should I let her know that helping to pay for her car repairs is an emotional trigger for me, with her having put all those miles on the car for HIM and HIS family?

Should I let her know that the BF, whose name is still on the lease, took the irresponsible way out by not paying his fair share and honoring the commitment he signed on to?  Leaving HER to pick up the pieces.  How is that caring? (she said she still loves him)

I am afraid that by loaning or giving her money, I will be wanting to monitor and then speak up about her spending and other life choices.  And I don't want to play that game.  Nor do I want to support foolish spending on Netflix, cable and wireless.  She doesn't get that these are luxuries and not necessities for a financially struggling person.  Do I speak up about that, or not?? 

So again, why do her bad choices have to impact ME?