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DIL has made it clear that she wants nothing to do with us and we've even made a little bit of progress since we started to not pay too much attention to her but with Christmas approaching I was wondering if we should buy her a gift, (she got angry at me for wishing her a happy birthday and I sure don't want to do anything to upset her). In the past we've always spent the same amount of money on her as we do on our other children.

Also in the past whenever we went on vacation to a different country we always bought her something but this past year we only bought things for GD because DIL was acting like she didn't want anything from us.

We haven't dare ask what their plans are for the holidays, God forbid we put any pressure on them, I'm sure our Ds and GD will come at some point but DIL hasn't been to our house since last Christmas, if she doesn't come, should we send her the gift with DS?

Would DS get upset with us if I ask his opinion? after all he knows DIL better than us.

I'd like to hear from DILs and MILs.

Hello Guest, I'm still new around here so I don't know your history about your DIL? Or why she don't ever want to be around you again? Has she told you or your DH?
  When it comes to things like your question about a gift, I try to live by one MAIN rule in my life, It might help you? But it is my suggestion anyhow. LOL
I do what I can live with. By that I mean, Will you feel bad if you don't? Will you feel like you should have? Or in your heart are you DONE with all the anger and fighting to get along? And you really in your own heart do not want to?
  Do what in your heart "You can live with" That is what I try to do anyhow. If doing something even if it's justified and deserved to someone and it make ME feel badly. Then I don't do it. I have to look at myself in the mirror everyday. No one else does. So even if the world tells me " I should" or " I have to" do a certain thing but my heart say's no and I know I shouldn't... Then I don't.
I don't know if this is any help to you at all? Just something I try to do.
Have you and her not gotten along always? Or is this something new? I would think its hard for your and your Sons and GC's relationship with her not wanting to see you? Hope I was a tad helpful? or even if I wasn't hopefully someone else will be. Hugs, Annie

Quote from: guest1 on October 17, 2010, 06:34:16 PM
DIL has made it clear that she wants nothing to do with us and we've even made a little bit of progress since we started to not pay too much attention to her but with Christmas approaching I was wondering if we should buy her a gift, (she got angry at me for wishing her a happy birthday and I sure don't want to do anything to upset her). In the past we've always spent the same amount of money on her as we do on our other children.

Also in the past whenever we went on vacation to a different country we always bought her something but this past year we only bought things for GD because DIL was acting like she didn't want anything from us.

We haven't dare ask what their plans are for the holidays, God forbid we put any pressure on them, I'm sure our Ds and GD will come at some point but DIL hasn't been to our house since last Christmas, if she doesn't come, should we send her the gift with DS?

Would DS get upset with us if I ask his opinion? after all he knows DIL better than us.

I'd like to hear from DILs and MILs.

Guest,
I  hope some of our good Daughters in law can give you some tips on what to do.  If it were me, I'd probably buy her gifts and tell her through your son that her gift was there and if any time she wanted it, she could have it. 
:(

No one here knows. All we can do is guess. My guess is that whatever you do, she will find a way to find fault with it until she gets past acting like that. (If she does.) I would just do as I pleased under the circumstances...and let the chips fall where they may. Sending love...

Guest1, you've received great replies. I agree that you must do what you can live with. We just can't be too attached to the outcome.

I couldn't bear not having a gift for DIL under the tree while DS & DD would have something to open, so I went for it even though DS, in his annoyance at DIL for her hateful attitude towards us had said, "Don't spend anything on her, Mom. She doesn't deserve it." It worked out OK for us; she didn't give it back (it was a really nice gift, LOL) but she didn't go overboard thanking us either. Neither did she go overboard giving us gifts, in fact she let us know her negative feelings towards us by the gifts she gave, but it doesn't matter - we'll keep doing what we always do, which is giving all the kids including DIL gifts of equal value. She can do what she likes with hers. I do ask DS his opinion regarding my ideas for her gifts so I don't make any big mistakes. He was glad I went ahead and broke the ice with that first gift after all.

Now, regarding DS/DIL's efforts in gift-giving to us.....LOL, having no expectations and not making comparisons with what DIL's FOO received is probably a good idea  ;)

I go with Annie....do as you feel....with what you can live with. 
When I was having problems with dil, it was the time that they were going to Baptized my gs (the first gc).  Dil's mother told me that dil didnt have anything nice to wear.  So I went and bought her a nice dress.  It cost me like $100.00.  I was so happy and thought she would be pleased.  She came over to my house and said that it didnt fit her and that the style did not suit her.  I told her that I would give her the ticket and that she could get anything else she wanted.  She said thanks...but no thanks (gulp).  She gave it back.  I know at that time she didnt want anything from me.   About two weeks later I went to Vegas and brought things for my son and gc.  I wouldnt allow her to slap me in the face again with rejection.  I couldnt deal with it anymore, I was so hurt everytime she did that to me.  So I gave my gs his gift, and when he came alone I gave him his t-shirt I have bought for him.  He said thanks mom.  But he didnt take it home lol.  I understand that he didnt want to make his wife feel bad....or didnt wanted me to be in more trouble.   I never did mention it again.  I gave the t-shirt to my husband lol. 

So you see, all of us are different.  No one is right or wrong...just do as your heart desires.

Love

Guest...and I hate to say this...there isn't likely anything right that you can do for her.

If you buy a gift...you're ignoring her wishes.  If you don't buy her a gift...then you're just horrible for ignoring her birthday.  Sorry...I don't see a win on this one.

What about asking your son what he thinks you should do?  Perhaps it's underhanded of me...but at least if it's wrong your dil can know that that is what her husband advised you to do.

You don't get to tell people to leave you alone and then get angry when they don't recognize your birthday or other occasions like valentines, mother's day, easter, etc.

OOPS....I MISUNDERSTOOD.  I THOUGHT IT WAS ABOUT A BIRTHDAY.  For Xmas...I'd have a gift for everyone under the tree.  I wouldn't leave anyone out at Xmas.  Then...if she gives it back she looks petulant.

OK, here is my input...

why anyone would think they can purchase cloths for another adult woman, is beyond me?  I would never even think about purchasing clothes for my DIL?  And the reason I say that is, this....my maternal mother and foster mother always insisted on purchasing clothes for me as a gift....due to the generation gap, it was never anywhere near the syle I liked...so, I never said anything, but never wore the stuff...it's a waste of money...get a gift certificate...

I don't know if it's an older generation thing or not, but there is no way one woman can buiy clothes for another?  The safest thing to give is a gift certificate, it allows the receiver to purhase what they want...

Guest, do what your heart tells you to do, don't go overboard, but if you were buying clothess for her, perhaps that is what offended her, there is no way you can pick out a dress or outfit for your DIL, unless she is with you...trys it on and it's a good fit. 

Like I suggested, it may be an older generation thing going on, b/c I know a lot of my friends , Older friends, do the same thing, and I try to tell them not to...however, they insist??????  I don't get that?  I really don't? 

What a minefield this is!

Guest, has she specifically told you NOT to buy her anything?  If so, you should respect that.

However, I also think it would be fair for you to give her a gift card to a local mall, or even a V!sa type gift card she can use anywhere.  Just be sure to write her a little note saying "I'm sorry we're not closer, please accept this gift of shopping, in the spirit of fairness.  I just could not exclude you."

And be sure to tell your DS that you don't want to stir the pot, but you don't want to ostracize DIL either.

QuoteWhat a minefield this is!

Guest, has she specifically told you NOT to buy her anything?  If so, you should respect that.

However, I also think it would be fair for you to give her a gift card to a local mall, or even a V!sa type gift card she can use anywhere.  Just be sure to write her a little note saying "I'm sorry we're not closer, please accept this gift of shopping, in the spirit of fairness.  I just could not exclude you."

And be sure to tell your DS that you don't want to stir the pot, but you don't want to ostracize DIL either.

Scoop is RIGHT ON here.  I think in this case you really are damned if you do and damned if you don't.  We've briefly discussed gift-giving on this forum before...but with the holidays coming soon maybe it's good we discuss it again.  There's a big difference between genuine loving gift-giving, and giving gifts for appearances' sake.  We all have to be careful not to do the latter.  Gifts should be heart-felt and given humbly as an expression of caring, or not given at all.   

I too, think it's a bad idea to buy clothes for another woman (lol, I don't even buy clothes for men...it's too risky).  There's just too many ways that can be read/misinterpreted.  I've found that spa gift certificates work well for women, or a gift certificate for a mani-pedi.   :) 

Quote from: cremebrulee on October 18, 2010, 05:10:52 AM
OK, here is my input...

why anyone would think they can purchase cloths for another adult woman, is beyond me?  I would never even think about purchasing clothes for my DIL?  And the reason I say that is, this....my maternal mother and foster mother always insisted on purchasing clothes for me as a gift....due to the generation gap, it was never anywhere near the syle I liked...so, I never said anything, but never wore the stuff...it's a waste of money...get a gift certificate...

I don't know if it's an older generation thing or not, but there is no way one woman can buiy clothes for another?  The safest thing to give is a gift certificate, it allows the receiver to purhase what they want...

Guest, do what your heart tells you to do, don't go overboard, but if you were buying clothess for her, perhaps that is what offended her, there is no way you can pick out a dress or outfit for your DIL, unless she is with you...trys it on and it's a good fit. 

Like I suggested, it may be an older generation thing going on, b/c I know a lot of my friends , Older friends, do the same thing, and I try to tell them not to...however, they insist??????  I don't get that?  I really don't?

Guest didn't know not to do this.  Now she does.

Guest, clothes are a no no for your DIL, now we know.   It could be that whatever you bought her was not view well by her. Could have been that she thought you thought she was slutty or then again, an old lady by what you bought, who knows?  Again, it's about how the clothes made her feel.  Scoop and Miss Priss are right about this..a gift card and tell your son you could not leave her out.  ;)

Everyone has such great advice!  I too agree with ask DS.

I'm pretty jaded with Xmas and the gift expectations so take my advice with a grain of salt ;)  (we *have* to buy close to 40 gifts, this doesn't include for each other and the kids, but for extended family at Xmas....I'm exhausted!)  Anyway, don't be afraid to do something different in lieu of gifts.  If you think your GS will be disappointed, think again.  Kids love gifts but they also love their family and know who is true to them.  Adopt A Family, Make or Bake, donations to a charity that will appreciate it and have a need for it are all good in lieu of gifts....in my mind.  Somehow Xmas has turned into this commercialized holiday where we are all hassled to turn a special day out of the year into an extravanganza of material goods.  Something just doesn't quite add up to me.  People everywhere are super stressed, it is the #1 time of the year for depression to set in.  In short, it's a nightmare anymore.

Also, it seems like these nightmare is visited upon women only.  Where are the men at?  Where are they buying gifts?  Maybe it's just me and my experience, but it seems like the gift ideas and physical shopping for them are done solely by the female members of the family.  Which make in law holidays difficult IMO.  I feel like I was thrown in, told to buy 18 people a present....and we all know the headaches with buying a present in contentious relationships.....all the while DH is sitting back, enjoying his holiday.  OTOH, if I told DH he has to buy the presents, he'd have no problem buying 18 gift cards and calling it a day.   And then I will get the blame for not putting thought into their gifts.  Damned if you, damned if you don't is right.  IMO, the sons/husbands need to take more responsibility.   If your DIL is getting you poor gifts, IMO, it's the sons fault.  He should be doing the heavy lifting....I do the heavy lifting for my family.

Quote from: barelythere on October 18, 2010, 06:51:27 AM

Quote from: cremebrulee on October 18, 2010, 05:10:52 AM
OK, here is my input...

why anyone would think they can purchase cloths for another adult woman, is beyond me?  I would never even think about purchasing clothes for my DIL?  And the reason I say that is, this....my maternal mother and foster mother always insisted on purchasing clothes for me as a gift....due to the generation gap, it was never anywhere near the syle I liked...so, I never said anything, but never wore the stuff...it's a waste of money...get a gift certificate...

I don't know if it's an older generation thing or not, but there is no way one woman can buiy clothes for another?  The safest thing to give is a gift certificate, it allows the receiver to purhase what they want...

Guest, do what your heart tells you to do, don't go overboard, but if you were buying clothess for her, perhaps that is what offended her, there is no way you can pick out a dress or outfit for your DIL, unless she is with you...trys it on and it's a good fit. 

Like I suggested, it may be an older generation thing going on, b/c I know a lot of my friends , Older friends, do the same thing, and I try to tell them not to...however, they insist??????  I don't get that?  I really don't?

Guest didn't know not to do this.  Now she does.

Guest, clothes are a no no for your DIL, now we know.   It could be that whatever you bought her was not view well by her. Could have been that she thought you thought she was slutty or then again, an old lady by what you bought, who knows?  Again, it's about how the clothes made her feel.  Scoop and Miss Priss are right about this..a gift card and tell your son you could not leave her out.  ;)

The way I was raised, you got a gift, you thanked that person for the gift and that was that.  If I didn't like it, too bad, I thanked them and acted grateful that they thought of me.  I think we're evolving backwards in some ways. 

Quote from: barelythere on October 18, 2010, 07:29:03 AM

Quote from: barelythere on October 18, 2010, 06:51:27 AM

Quote from: cremebrulee on October 18, 2010, 05:10:52 AM
OK, here is my input...

why anyone would think they can purchase cloths for another adult woman, is beyond me?  I would never even think about purchasing clothes for my DIL?  And the reason I say that is, this....my maternal mother and foster mother always insisted on purchasing clothes for me as a gift....due to the generation gap, it was never anywhere near the syle I liked...so, I never said anything, but never wore the stuff...it's a waste of money...get a gift certificate...

I don't know if it's an older generation thing or not, but there is no way one woman can buiy clothes for another?  The safest thing to give is a gift certificate, it allows the receiver to purhase what they want...

Guest, do what your heart tells you to do, don't go overboard, but if you were buying clothess for her, perhaps that is what offended her, there is no way you can pick out a dress or outfit for your DIL, unless she is with you...trys it on and it's a good fit. 

Like I suggested, it may be an older generation thing going on, b/c I know a lot of my friends , Older friends, do the same thing, and I try to tell them not to...however, they insist??????  I don't get that?  I really don't?

Guest didn't know not to do this.  Now she does.

Guest, clothes are a no no for your DIL, now we know.   It could be that whatever you bought her was not view well by her. Could have been that she thought you thought she was slutty or then again, an old lady by what you bought, who knows?  Again, it's about how the clothes made her feel.  Scoop and Miss Priss are right about this..a gift card and tell your son you could not leave her out.  ;)

The way I was raised, you got a gift, you thanked that person for the gift and that was that.  If I didn't like it, too bad, I thanked them and acted grateful that they thought of me.  I think we're evolving backwards in some ways.

I agree with you, for the most part.  But all situations are different.  If you opened a passive aggressive gift (or multiple ones) in front of 20 people, year in and year out....you know, at some point you aren't going to be so happy to do it again.  People have breaking points.  And sometimes you hit it on their first year.  Clothes are a no-no for women.  It's a huge minefield.  And yes, Guest didn't know, I'm aware of that.  But what else was going on then?  Guest might not even be aware and have no control over it...it is her DIL's issue and her issue to solve.  If her way of doing it is just not accepting gifts....then it should be respected.

In my situation the in laws want to repeat their childhood traditions on Xmas Day.  Seriously, the want us over to their house at the crack of dawn to pretend like Santa came.  Grown adults....they want to do this with.  And forget the fact that we have children.  So, we spend the entire day with the PIL's and siblings opening up gifts for HOURS.  My kids are already bored of this and go run off and play....while the adults sit there opening up gifts.  It's exhausting.  No, I'm not grateful to those gifts.  I don't want them.  I don't even want to go near it.  Gifts are not pleasant to me anymore.  They use the amount of time to open up the mountain of gifts as a weapon to dominate holiday time, to me.  That is my perspective.  Now, MIL may truly not think that way, I don't know.  She may feel she is truly giving from her heart to us, but she also doesn't see what she is taking away from me.  Personal time with my family to make memories.

morning ladies. just had to put my input in.  i am so sick and tired of walking on eggshells for these ungrateful, selfish, "its my way or no way", you didn't get me the right gift, your always wrong, no matter what, controlling people!!!!!!!!!!!   REALLY???!!!!!  can you say, "chemical imbalance??"  agreed that sons grow up and "go away". not agreed that we can be disrespected, stepped on, ignored, shamed, giving the "stink eye",  at any giving moment for everything we do. we are "darned if we do, darned if we don't".  we CANT win! some of the stories i read here are absolutely horrific!! some of the MIL/DIL's are just plain horrifying! when my dil treats us in this manner, we back off, when we "back off", she then says were ignoring her and ds, or that were trying to "play games", which sickens me . so, what do we do ladies? some people can NEVER BE PLEASED no matter what we do. wheather its a MIL or a DIL, there can only be one cook in the kitchen so to speak, but i chose not to be rolled over with the rolling pen every time.
with that said, hers an up date:
i had my gc for a day, we went to the zoo, we had such a good day! dropped my gc off at my DIL's, gc did NOT want to leave my arms, just cried and cried, then DIL said (very rudely) "well you give him everything he wants, that's why hes crying".  REALLY??!!!  no, we respect her rules, but off she stomped, with crying gc in tow calling nana nana.............. :'(  not to mention she kept telling him to "shut up cry baby" hes not even 2!!!  i couldn't say a word.
she is JELOUSE, AND INTIMIDATED and wont admit it ever! so, had one good conversation w/dil, then got to spend a day with my gs, but now i guess its back to the drawing board because she got mad he cried when i tried to put him in her arms??!! so sad that some people just cant or wont grow up, or get help. 
and i have to ask, sorry if i missed it, but what is excactly a "passive/aggressive" gift??????? i have never in my life heard of such a thing.

and pen, i could have written your post, thank you.

Erma, sorry to hear of this latest drama. It sounds as though gifts are the least of the problems between you & DIL. What's sad is that the GC get caught in the middle. The DILs who think we can just disappear need to understand that we are related to their children, like it or not, and always will be. We're also related to their DH, LOL. MILs need to realize that the door to DS & GC is open or closed at the whim of DIL, so doing what we can to keep the peace benefits us. We may need to ignore a lot of unfortunate behavior, but that's how it is in some cases.

Regarding DIL gifts, I agree that they should be given from the heart, but it's hard to do so when DIL has rejected the giver/gift on past occasions. We're put in a no-win position, as others have said, so we must do what we can live with. I never would pick out clothes or accessories for DIL unless told specifically what she desired - it's gift cards all the way, usually a spa day but sometimes for a store DS tells me she likes.

Do DIL/DS bend themselves into pretzels over our gifts? Are they walking on eggshells about us? Heck no, LOL. DIL hits the sales at the low end stores and we get whatever cheap stuff she can remotely justify as appropriate. Yes, it would be great if DS did the heavy lifting for his FOO...he used to purchase thoughtful, appropriate gifts for us. I don't know if DIL is in charge of the $$$ and has taken over all spending or if DS handed that responsibility over.

I'd be happy to remove gifts entirely from the celebration and just spend time together, but DIL wouldn't like that either. They're very busy with her FOO at the holidays.

I had another idea, instead of DS, DGS and DIL gifts, how about a family gift?  A family membership to the museum or the zoo?  Or a swim membership to the local pool?  With a little something else for DGS of course.

Also, I don't think anyone should be afraid to cut back their Christmas gift list, as long as they tell everyone what they're doing.    We were relieved when we decided to stop buying gifts for siblings and friends, as were they, I'm sure.

pen, your situation is so familiar to me.  the first holiday gift exchange we did with dil/ds she never spoke a word of gratitude, or a thank you. after the holiday was over, ds said maybe we should just give gift cards. ds was not raised in this fashion. we "shop with our hearts" with that in mind, we gave gift cards the following year only to have her say, "oh, gift cards, how impersonal" . she even went as far one year, to tell me that "GIFT GIVING AFTER WE TURN 21 IS IMATURE" so the next year, she and ds got a card. HA! that went over well, she accused me of "playing some sick mind game" when i reminded ds of the past 21 thing, all that was replied was, "oh ya" . so now, i still "shop with my heart". when i gift give, wheather it be the holidays, or birthdays, baby showers, what ever, i don't compromise myself any more. she may throw them out, re-gift, or keep them. what ever she does with them is her business, it hurts me when she does throw them out or re-gift, which she has, but alot of it is displayed around her home. which contradicts everything she says to me and ds.  ;) so, i keep giving from my heart, and maybe one day, in the end, she will understand why we as women do what we do. we are nurturers.
i we can only take so much.  i don't chose to call it "unfortunate behavior" though,its alot of other things, we are "unfortunate" to have to put up with it though. and like you pen, dil's foo, always has and always will come first. they spend almost every weekend with them, all holidays, and birthdays even my ds's, and believe me, it hurts beyond words, we just get a glimpse now and then of their lives. 
so the holidays will be hard, feelings will be hurt, but i know for me, my gift giving, to all, will be from my heart. and in the end for me, they will understand i gave them my heart becuz i love them.  its not about gifts, its about love and family, and the big guy upstairs.
so for me, the gifts we give, the words we speak, the deeds we do, they should all be from our hearts.  so again, i will not compromise myself, i will give her a gift from my heart. (unless this year is a just cards year)   ;) ;) ;)

i gave them a "family gift" a membership to a local aquarium, i called and asked ds if it was something they would enjoy, he was thrilled. so i purchased it. when she opened it, she blurted out, "eewww, i hate fish"  , some peoples kids.  but i agree with scoop, before purchasing a large ticket item, ask dil. 
my take on it though is, what is a gift really??  when did we evolve from gift giving into " thats what i want and your gonna get it for me"????

Quote from: erma on October 18, 2010, 08:37:33 AM
morning ladies. just had to put my input in.  i am so sick and tired of walking on eggshells for these ungrateful, selfish, "its my way or no way", you didn't get me the right gift, your always wrong, no matter what, controlling people!!!!!!!!!!!   REALLY???!!!!!  can you say, "chemical imbalance??"  agreed that sons grow up and "go away". not agreed that we can be disrespected, stepped on, ignored, shamed, giving the "stink eye",  at any giving moment for everything we do. we are "darned if we do, darned if we don't".  we CANT win! some of the stories i read here are absolutely horrific!! some of the MIL/DIL's are just plain horrifying! when my dil treats us in this manner, we back off, when we "back off", she then says were ignoring her and ds, or that were trying to "play games", which sickens me . so, what do we do ladies? some people can NEVER BE PLEASED no matter what we do. wheather its a MIL or a DIL, there can only be one cook in the kitchen so to speak, but i chose not to be rolled over with the rolling pen every time.
with that said, hers an up date:
i had my gc for a day, we went to the zoo, we had such a good day! dropped my gc off at my DIL's, gc did NOT want to leave my arms, just cried and cried, then DIL said (very rudely) "well you give him everything he wants, that's why hes crying".  REALLY??!!!  no, we respect her rules, but off she stomped, with crying gc in tow calling nana nana.............. :'(  not to mention she kept telling him to "shut up cry baby" hes not even 2!!!  i couldn't say a word.
she is JELOUSE, AND INTIMIDATED and wont admit it ever! so, had one good conversation w/dil, then got to spend a day with my gs, but now i guess its back to the drawing board because she got mad he cried when i tried to put him in her arms??!! so sad that some people just cant or wont grow up, or get help. 
and i have to ask, sorry if i missed it, but what is excactly a "passive/aggressive" gift??????? i have never in my life heard of such a thing.

Dear Erma,
A passive agressive gift is like when I spent a lot on a gift for my Daughter in law for her birthday (not clothes-- but an object of a lot of value and beauty.   She threw it back in the box, not even attempting to put it back like it was and gave it back to me for my birthday.  She wanted me to know she didn't like it.  (honestly, no one would have not liked this gift)

QuoteBarelyThere
The way I was raised, you got a gift, you thanked that person for the gift and that was that.  If I didn't like it, too bad, I thanked them and acted grateful that they thought of me.  I think we're evolving backwards in some ways.

Yes, your right, I was raised the same way, however, when a woman is no longer a child....and I speak thru experience....why would you want to chance giving someone something that they are not going to like or wear....
again, I'm speaking from experience, but I would much rather give someone something they are going to enjoy, not something they are going to hang away in the closet and not wear..that is a waste of money just to give a gift....Give a box wrapped gift certificate, that way there is no stone unturned, then they can do with it what they like....?

My maternal mother keeps buying me clothes from QVC....there is nothing wrong with they're clothes, howver, she purchased items that she likes, which would be for an older woman....not what I like?????? or would even consider wearing....there is definately a generation gap in what we like....

Guest, I'm speaking for myself only....your DIL may feel completely the opposite...I just wouldn't take the chance....I would and do, give gift certificates or money, it saves a whole lot of aggrivation from both sides.....it's easy and you don't take a chance on giving something they can't or won't ever wear.....

When I said, I don't know how anyone can clothes shop for clothing, well, it really used to get to me, that the older generation would spend money on clothes that I would never wear....I'm talking after I was married, not when I was a little girl....but we all certainly have different tastes in clothes....and I'm all for getting something I know the receiver is definately going to like, how can you miss with a gift certificate? 

Hugs
Creme

morning cream, i did the gift card theme, only to have her open it and say "oh, gift cards, how impersonal".  but i do agree with you on the clothes deal. IF i give her clothes, i give a gift receipt, that way she can go exchange it. i have found with my dil, what works best now, is CASH. she wants cash. no cards, no gifts, cold hard cash.   :-X but i also add a little something from my heart that i think she will enjoy.

Quote from: erma on October 18, 2010, 11:16:04 AM
morning cream, i did the gift card theme, only to have her open it and say "oh, gift cards, how impersonal".  but i do agree with you on the clothes deal. IF i give her clothes, i give a gift receipt, that way she can go exchange it. i have found with my dil, what works best now, is CASH. she wants cash. no cards, no gifts, cold hard cash.   :-X but i also add a little something from my heart that i think she will enjoy.

Now see...here is where my redneck gene rises to the surface and overrides good judgement.

I'd want to call her out in front of everyone right at the Xmas tree.  Something along the lines of telling her about how you were told that 1) gifts for anyone over 21 is immature.  so you stopped. 2)  when you gave a card instead...as you were following HER wishes...then she was unhappy, too.  3)  when you buy her things she says she doesn't like them and gives them back to you. so 4)  What exactly is it that you are supposed to do?

Of course...this is where the whole fantasy gets really, REALLY BAD.  As I said...my redneck gene can override good sense.  Not only I have the urge to call her out, but to blow it up like dynamite and rub her nose in it.  Heck...it would probably end up with me throwing her out of the house, in my fantasy.


Seriously though...I would address it in some way.  At some point...you just get tired.  You teach people how to treat you.  I DO think she should be called out on her behavior.  However, you can only do it if you're willing to deal with the consequences...and there will be consequences.  I think this applies to both sides of the equation...ils and "the kids".  The biggest problem with doing it is that the ils have more to lose than "the Kids" do...unless you're willing to harden your heart, pull your pants up, and wait it out.

Quote from: erma on October 18, 2010, 11:16:04 AM
morning cream, i did the gift card theme, only to have her open it and say "oh, gift cards, how impersonal".  but i do agree with you on the clothes deal. IF i give her clothes, i give a gift receipt, that way she can go exchange it. i have found with my dil, what works best now, is CASH. she wants cash. no cards, no gifts, cold hard cash.   :-X but i also add a little something from my heart that i think she will enjoy.

and I thought I was bad and awful for not liking to get clothes for gifts....????

Erma, she is just downright ungreatful...next time give her monopoly money?  Sheesh, what an ingreat?

Quote from: erma on October 18, 2010, 11:16:04 AM
morning cream, i did the gift card theme, only to have her open it and say "oh, gift cards, how impersonal".  but i do agree with you on the clothes deal. IF i give her clothes, i give a gift receipt, that way she can go exchange it. i have found with my dil, what works best now, is CASH. she wants cash. no cards, no gifts, cold hard cash.   :-X but i also add a little something from my heart that i think she will enjoy.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth...don't say one word to her!  That's my opinion. If you do, you are in for it.  I think you know that, though.  Do as she says.  She wants cash, she gets cash.  Do not talk to your son about it!!  He will tell her and then you will be in for it. 

Somehow along the way, we have lost a sense of decorum and good taste.  Too bad for us.

thanks glitter, bt and cream!
glitter, i believe i have some of that"redneck gene" too!!! lol  ;D but i do not know of a way to address the issues without offending her. EVERYTHING my side of the family does seems to offend her.  not just me, but my whole family and my dh side of the family as well. she has said or done something to and about everyone of us.  but she is my sons significant other, so we must deal with it. after so many years of her behavior, my family just ignores her now. we cant. and i cant seem to find a way to address it either. so, mean time i walk on eggshells, and i hate it!
i guess im hoping maybe someday, she will learn how to be grateful for what she has been given, on all levels. i try to show that by what i do. maybe shell catch on, maybe not.
but i gotta tell ya, it sure would feel good for a moment anyway, to call her out at Christmas time under the tree!!  ;) ;)  i could never do that, but it sounds good, until the aftermath anyway. :-\

Quote from: erma on October 18, 2010, 11:16:04 AM
morning cream, i did the gift card theme, only to have her open it and say "oh, gift cards, how impersonal".  but i do agree with you on the clothes deal. IF i give her clothes, i give a gift receipt, that way she can go exchange it. i have found with my dil, what works best now, is CASH. she wants cash. no cards, no gifts, cold hard cash.   :-X but i also add a little something from my heart that i think she will enjoy.

Ugh, I would not be able to tolerate this. 

Gifts from someone, anyone, who you don't have a good relationship with is AWKWARD.  You never know what to expect, you don't know what to say ("thank you, you witch?"), and for anyone around you who knows what the situation is, it makes an awkward situation for them too.

As a DIL in the midst of an awful situation with my MIL, I'll just be honest, I don't want her gifts and I have told her so on many occasions.  I know that not all of you are nasty like my MIL is, but even so, there is some unrest and discord there between you and your DILs, and some reason why we're having this conversation...

As a DIL on the receiving end of that spectrum, back when my MIL used to send me gifts, I felt like she was trying to "force" gratitude from me, I felt as though she were trying to "humble me" by forcing me to say "thank you" to her.  You could almost see the delight on her face, not from the gratitude itself, but from the power she got in forcing me to do it (does that make sense?) 

For a long time I was polite and cordial and said "thank you for the gift <MIL>, and thank you for thinking of me."  The worse things got, the more she laughed off my boundaries and treated her son and I like dirt....the less I wanted her gifts, and eventually I just stopped accepting them.  Gifts to her were routine, it was her way of showing eeeeeeeverybody else "Ohhhhhh, I'm the good guy, I don't like her, but I still gave her a gift."  And to me, when you're giving a gift just to show others that you're "considerate," that's not the same as giving a gift to someone because you love them.  This to me is the definition of "passive aggressive" gifting.   

When I stopped giving her that power, she said the same things I'm hearing from some of you.  "She's ungrateful, she's this and that...yada yada yada."  She ignores my very existence 363 days out of the year, why should my birthday or Christmas be any different?  Is her "gift" to me that she acknowldges my birthday or that it's Christmas?  I believe gifts come out of love, not out of power or other alterior motives, so if you openly and publicly hate me the other 363 days out of the year, why should I have to accept your "gifts" the other two days just so she can "appear" to have cared enough to send a gift?  If any of you can justify that, please feel free to explain it to me, because I just don't see any form of reasonable logic behind it.   

I'm not saying at all that this applies to anyone or everyone here, just trying to give another perspective.  Giving a gift to my MIL at this point is, to me, along the lines of giving a gift to the guy who just verbally attacked me in my home, and Christmas and birthdays aren't exceptions.  I don't give her gifts, and I don't accept them from her either.     

And all comes down to this.  It is not the gift.  It is that when dil doesnt like mil, it is not the gift....it is the opportunity to express their rejection.  This does not apply to Miss Prissy which does have a witch mil and some others who reject mil for well earned reasons. 

Love

Well put, Nana. Sometimes they are just laying for us...(MILs or DILS...and anything can be a trigger (excuse.)

well put miss priss, i should never except a gift from someone who publicly or not, despised me every day of the year and then gives me a gift at Christmas, or my b-day. maybe i should turn that around on my DIL. she publicly despises me all the time but gives us a gift at Christmas and b days. so your saying i should try giving them back?
i however do not operate in that fashion. i simple do not want to exclude her in anyway. if we excluded her in any fashion, things would get really bad. let me see if i can explain it from a parents point of view. when you have more than one child, gift giving can be tricky. so at Christmas time we as parents tried to be fair in "how many, who got what" what ever. it was never to "humble" or to "force gratitude". normal parents, and IL's just want to be excepted, and to have peace. believe me, if i didn't give my DIL a present at Christmas, or for her birthday, we would be accused of some horrid behavior. so what can we do to make dil happy? to me, its a no win situation. we don't "hate" her, we truly wanted her to feel part of. and as far as "the good guy" theme, i don't think i have to justify anything. i know i give from my heart, as do alot of us. we would never make it in to a power play. i send out Christmas cards once a year to people i haven't heard from in a long time. that doesn't mean i expect anything, it just means , "I'm thinking of you". that's my take on it, not all MIL's are malicious, same goes for DIL"s. gope that made sense ???

yes, well put nana! and yes, miss priss does have a unfortunate situation at hand.  :'(

Now see...here is where my redneck gene rises to the surface and overrides good judgement.  ( Guilty!!! ::)

And Ms.Priss, I really do enjoy reading your replies. I'm learning so much from you how the other side of this feels. Thank you! And I'm sorry your MIL is so bad to you. No one.. MIL or DIL deserves to be treated badly!
   Hugs, Annie

Meh, it is what it is, and we are all different.  And the people we are dealing with are all different, and therefor our relationships and how we react to them are all different...so can any of us ever really be "right?"  What was right for me may not be right for all.  Heck, it probably isn't right for anyone, but I honestly had just met my breaking point.  My cup runneth over, my bag was full, I'd had enough of it.  Patience is something I've always struggled with, I still do.  And I'm sure that many of you think I should have given her more time, more opportunity to set things right, I should have been more compassionate, I should have just "let it slide" more, I should just forgive and forget and try again and again to make it work with my MIL.  I probably could have tried harder, I certainly could have avoided doing a few things that made it worse.  I could have bitten my tongue a little more.  I could have let her comments go, I could have played by her rules to keep her happy.  But I'm not a "puppet," and that's what she didn't like about me.  The majority of her family are just "drones,' doing a dance around her to make sure she's happy, because there is always hell to pay when MIL isn't happy, and she takes a lot of pride in that.  It's very sad.  My DH is proof that rotten people can raise a good person, although every now and then, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree I'll admit.  He did grow up with her, he does have her genes, and occasionally he can really throw down a childish tantrum.  It doesn't take him long to remember that those tactics don't work with me. 

I got my usual birthday card and check from MIL a couple of weeks ago, but I wasn't sure if I should accept the check. I don't personally have a problem with my MIL, but she recently sent a guilt ridden email to my DH that basically told him that she doesn't consider him part of her family anymore and he was welcome back whenever he was ready to play by her rules. It really hurt him as this was so far off of his perception of things. It seems he should not have moved to another state to get his Ph.D. and then he should not have moved to the other side of the country to take the only job that was offered to him. Nope, he should have stayed around to help raise the newest troubled kid that the PILs had adopted instead of growing up, becoming successful, and creating a life of his own. Even now, he should quit his job and move "home", even though because his area of specialty is so narrow that getting a job in his home town would be next to impossible and that he hates that town, because his siblings, all of them adult and over the age of 35, need him to take care of them.  It was because DH wasn't there that the kid ended up being a waist of space, it had nothing to do with the way the PILs raised him. It was an awful letter. But, DH has been trained from birth to never say anything that would hurt his Mom, so he has not answered this letter. He is 50 and still cannot speak the truth to his Mom. I think he should because he has years of resentment built up and they will never resolve anything until he does actually communicate with her.

Each year, she usually calls me. This really means something to me since my own M is cut off, and does not recognize my birthday in any way anymore except to cry on the shoulders of my siblings about losing her DD. It would have been awkward if she had called, but it would also have been nice, too. Sorry, had to get that off my chest.

Since I don't know my MIL all that well, I usually don't judge her presents. She usually just gives me a check or a gift card anyway, but my Mom has given me some pretty passive/aggressive gifts in the past. When we decided to reduce the amount of TV watched in our house, she bought DH and I a DVD player and each of the kids a TV for their rooms. She normally did not spend that kind of money on us because she can't afford to, but that year she went into debt to let me know what she thought of our decision. I am not Christian, but she always gave me a book or a plaque or a Christian themed ornament for Christmas. I always ignored the intent, thanked her in general for her gifts and then got rid of the inappropriate ones. If I had made a fuss, that would have made her happy. I have known women who got dirty clothes, clothes in the wrong sizes (one woman who had just lost all the baby fat and was looking good got extra large along with a snide comment from her MIL), and others who got obviously used stuff while everyone else in the family got lavish gifts. There are ways to use "gifts" to hurt people. My sister never gave me an honest gift in her life. It was only a matter of time before she would attempt to absorb it into her household. If I wouldn't give it, she would steal it.

It is like when I began to learn how thieves stole things. I became an assistant manager, so I had to learn about it in order to help prevent it. I was shocked. I had no idea there were so many ways to steal from a store. I was sickened. I wasn't a thief, so it never occurred to me to do these things. So, Erma, since you are not a passive/aggressive person who is trying to hurt your DIL, I can understand why you are credulous. But, there are MILs out there who are evil, mean, mentally ill, and others who are just misguided who do intentionally hurt their DILs, or do their best to try. There are DILs like this, too.

To the OP, how about a donation to a charity in the name of your DIL. It would be something she could not return. It would be better to do this in the name of the family and then give gifts only to the GCs. My ILs did this one year, and no one had a problem with it.

 :'( yes, i am trying to wrap my mind around these things.  :'( i am reading these blogs with tears streaming down my face wondering how we as human beings can be so cruel to one another.
and i am starting to think maybe ( and i pray I'm wrong) my DIL is just one of these mentally ill, or just plain cruel people! gawd i pray I'm wrong! if that is the case here with my situation anyway, i see no light at the end of the tunnel.  :'(

Guest1,
don't beat yourself up because you bought her a dress out of wanting to do something for her.  You know not to do it again..you are ahead.    I don't like my  SIL much  but she loves her children is a good parent so that is what matters most.    I would never exclude her from XMAS gifts.    (If we gave them)  We only give presents to the children .  Maybe it is a good time to change the goal posts on gift giving, no-one needs to feel obligated in any way.   If that is out of the question   I would buy a lovely container of biscuits or chocolates for the family and then a special gift for the children.   You won't have to address her personally on a card,  just a card  to dear ....family, I would not ever write something such as "i wish we had a better relationship" etc.   My SIL and I have become closer since she had serious breast cancer, I sent her lovely soaps and lotions just for her, for no reason   other than I loved doing it and for the first time she thanked me and spoke to me,  our relationship was uncomfortable until then but she could see I was genuine.    My db told me how much it meant to her to recieve the small gifts.     

Quote from: erma on October 18, 2010, 10:03:52 AM
i gave them a "family gift" a membership to a local aquarium, i called and asked ds if it was something they would enjoy, he was thrilled. so i purchased it. when she opened it, she blurted out, "eewww, i hate fish"  , some peoples kids.  but i agree with scoop, before purchasing a large ticket item, ask dil. 
my take on it though is, what is a gift really??  when did we evolve from gift giving into " thats what i want and your gonna get it for me"????

Now that is funny, if I were you I would have laughed my head off to the ewww comment and said oh well (sounding as genuine as you can muster) you don't have to go, I didn't know you hated fish.    It;'s a lovely aquarium the children will love it.   

Guest
You did a nice thing for your dil...I skimmed over your post and didn't see that you bought her a dress...please don't beat yourself up...you thought you were doing a nice thing for her...

and I apologize for being so frank....I was thinking of my mother and how she always did that and how it really upset me...and I know I am wrong for feeling like that, I am wrong...however, you don't know my mother...

Guest....it's a gift...however, now you know what she doesn't want...so, you try again...and again....I'm sorry your having such a horrible time with it all....it just doesn't make sense...and it is unfair...Julia is absolutely right...

hugs
Creme

Thank you all for all the replies. Lots of good advice. Sometimes when you're so wrapped up in a situation it's hard to see a clear picture.

To sum up some of your questions/comments, DS told us that DIL doesn't want anything from us and doesn't want anything to do with us, I personally could not exclude her from anything,  I also hate to have to walk on eggshells, but in spite of her having said that, for the past year, she has allowed us to see our DS and GD on a regular basis, not as often as we'd like to see them but we have to give her credit for that, she could very easily turn the situation around and our DS wouldn't do a thing to change it, that's the reason I don't want to mess up.

We've never given DIL clothes, Nana was the one who said she bought her DIL a dress once. We've always given DIL money except for a couple of times when we bought them some furniture that they wanted and when we go on vacation we have bought them souvenirs from the different countries/islands.

I've decided not to ask DS, as much as I hate to say this, he cannot be trusted, he may very well tell her and make her angry and cause problems even between them.
So...my dear ladies, I think I will stick to giving her money as usual and hope for the best, I also hope that she'll come, if not I'll send it with DS.

Guest,
Your doing the right thing in not talking with him about it...all it does is cause more problems...believe me....he will become very hurt and frustrated and talk to her, she perceives it all different they you do...I've heard mil's or dils' say..."oh she's lying,"...it's not that she's lying, she just saw the whole situation differently...

Guest, I'm really sorry your experiencing this...but maybe if you back off, she will change....she need to know that you respect her wishes right now...you see, the harder you push, the more you push her away...she doesn't view it as trying...she views it as your trying to buy her affections....so, let her go and get a gift for son and GC, but respect her wishes....and one day, maybe you could tell son,
I really wish I could give DIL something, but I want to let her know, I respect her wishes....so that maybe time will heal....and then much later, perhaps you could ask him if there is anything he knows that you could do to correct things....?  But much later...right now give them time....especially over the holidays...don't push...and make plans which are going to make YOU happy...that is so important....when she feels that your not consentrating on them, she'll perhaps return? 

I hope so

Creme

Quote from: guest1 on October 18, 2010, 05:20:21 PM
DS told us that DIL doesn't want anything from us

There is your answer.  You've been told she doesn't want anything from you, a boundary has been set.  As creme said, she needs to know you will respect her wishes.  I'm not saying the boundary is or isn't fair or justified, but it does need to be respected if you want things to get better.  By giving her something when you have been specifically asked not to, you are crossing that boundary.  I know that sounds harsh but that is how she is looking at it. 

I completely understand respecting DIL boundaries such as this one on birthdays, graduations or whatever (hey, more cash for us to spend on ourselves, LOL), but would like some advice regarding Christmas gifts. What would this look like at a Christmas celebration? For example, DS is still wanting to spend EOY with us, and has stated firmly that he wants stockings and so forth as usual (I know, I know.) While everyone else is pulling silly gifts out of their stockings or opening a gift from under the tree, what is DIL doing? How do we make her more comfortable during that time? Or does she get to dictate our holiday agenda to the point where none of us have stockings or gifts if she's there? I'm not being snarky, I honestly want to know. A real-life example would be very helpful to me.  ("Just let her sit there" doesn't count; that would make us all very uncomfortable, and our comfort level, especially in our own home, is also important.)

Pen, I saw where your son told you not to get anything for DIL because she didn't deserve it, but did SHE ever specifically say not to get her anything?  If not, then, yes, you would still give her a gift as you would any other member of the family.  Your son has made it clear that he still wants to continue with stockings and gift-giving, and leaving her out would just be awkward and make you look bad UNLESS she has told you not to. 

Thanks, Free. So far we've dodged the bullet, but I was asking in a general sense in case such a situation should arise generated by DIL. In the past she's indicated by her actions that she might lean that way at some point.

I'm still very curious as to how MILs/ILs are to handle a DIL's gift boundary while others are receiving them, and still be polite, inclusive, & welcoming. I'd like a workable example from someone if possible?

Pen, I think you should continue to include her. 

Just fill her stocking with more "generic" stuff.  Since she might not appreciate it, wear it or use it, don't 'invest' too much of yourself (your time, your money, your emotions) into it.  For gifts, again, a gift card is the safest.  And you can put a positive spin on it, I always present a gift card as the "Gift of SHOPPING!".  Then add on a couple of "safe" items, black gloves, a scarf, coffee/tea/hot chocolate, ect.   Or buy her something you think she will like and include a gift receipt and hope for the best.

I think the key is to give the gift and release any expectations for it being used or appreciated.  In this case, you are just giving a gift as a 'placeholder', so that she is not excluded in your celebration.  I know it's hard, because you want to give something she'll like, but that's not always easy to do.

And honestly, even when my MIL gives me something that I actually *like*, I can't seem to use it right away.  It's almost like I have to let the bad karma wear off of it before I can use it.  Or if it's something that I don't like, of course I still thank her warmly, but I pass it on to someone else almost immediately.

Pen, I agree with Scoop totally, perhaps you can save yourself a whole lot of worry and build up your confidence that way?

Quote from: Pen on October 19, 2010, 08:26:17 AM
I completely understand respecting DIL boundaries such as this one on birthdays, graduations or whatever (hey, more cash for us to spend on ourselves, LOL), but would like some advice regarding Christmas gifts. What would this look like at a Christmas celebration? For example, DS is still wanting to spend EOY with us, and has stated firmly that he wants stockings and so forth as usual (I know, I know.) While everyone else is pulling silly gifts out of their stockings or opening a gift from under the tree, what is DIL doing? How do we make her more comfortable during that time? Or does she get to dictate our holiday agenda to the point where none of us have stockings or gifts if she's there? I'm not being snarky, I honestly want to know. A real-life example would be very helpful to me.  ("Just let her sit there" doesn't count; that would make us all very uncomfortable, and our comfort level, especially in our own home, is also important.)

Pen, this is such a sticky subject!  DH and I have fairly similar views on the holidays and our wishes are pretty much the same, so thankfully we don't have to deal with one of us wanting something the other doesn't.  It still doesn't mean our boundaries are ever respected though lol.  DH's siblings are pretty well split on who still wants the Santa experience and who wants a more grown up Xmas.  It's frustrating and every year it is the same couples who do not have children yet that want to have Santa visit.  I thought I remembered you saying that your DS/DIL do not have children, so maybe this is something you can give your DS to think on.

What I think is being missed in DH's family is that eventually these couples will have children....or maybe not.  But even so there is a new generation of grandkids and naturally (as in all families) the focus of Xmas generally goes to the kids, there are many people out there as parents who like to play Santa to their own children and don't want anyone else doing it.  I have a feeling with the way you described your DIL that she will probably feel that way.  For me, it's irritating every year for the PIL's trying to play Santa to the grandchildren.  I feel like they are backed into a corner to do it because DH's siblings won't let go of the Santa experience.  I think MIL feels like she needs to play Santa for the grandkids so she can explain why grown ups have stockings at her house and not feel like she is slighting them.  And that extends to us too, she feels like she needs to play Santa to the grown kids who don't want to participate anymore.  I can actually see her side on this one -- who wants to be blatantly unequal in gifts among grown children?  Who wants to dangle stockings in front of little kids and say "nope, not for you!" 

I guess my point is is that maybe this is a way where you can take your DIL's side.  Every year I think it's pretty darn bold of DH's siblings to demand MIL to keep up the Santa experience.  Where I come from you don't demand your parents to do anything.  My parents would *never* ask me what I want them to do for me.  Just never.  They make their own decisions.  So I kind have a beef with your DS telling you want he wants from you.  That wouldn't fly in this family.

So with that said, I think it is a very normal transition for parents to modify holidays for grown children and as they hit their milestones...marriage, kids.  I think there is nothing wrong in not doing the stocking experience for your DS in terms of the big picture.  And if this was me, I'd see this as a very understanding and wise move to make if my in laws did it.  To me, it would show that they are aware of not just a couple of the family members, but ALL of them and they are making a decision for the good of the group.  As it is now, every year they know my take on stockings and easter baskets...I don't want them and I don't want them given to my children (I'm Santa and I'm the Easter bunny too!!!!)  and every year we are hold hostage to only a couple of the family members feelings. 

I do see their position and I see how they are put in the middle so I know it's not easy and it's why I give sort of a pass to this one.  But it would be nice if our position was respected...even every other year.  I think as your DIL is family now maybe she should get a year where her decision is respected.  I think it would show her a lot, Pen.

After the last comment she made....I'd buy her a goldfish   :o

Quote from: pam1 on October 19, 2010, 11:27:50 AM

Quote from: Pen on October 19, 2010, 08:26:17 AM
I completely understand respecting DIL boundaries such as this one on birthdays, graduations or whatever (hey, more cash for us to spend on ourselves, LOL), but would like some advice regarding Christmas gifts. What would this look like at a Christmas celebration? For example, DS is still wanting to spend EOY with us, and has stated firmly that he wants stockings and so forth as usual (I know, I know.) While everyone else is pulling silly gifts out of their stockings or opening a gift from under the tree, what is DIL doing? How do we make her more comfortable during that time? Or does she get to dictate our holiday agenda to the point where none of us have stockings or gifts if she's there? I'm not being snarky, I honestly want to know. A real-life example would be very helpful to me.  ("Just let her sit there" doesn't count; that would make us all very uncomfortable, and our comfort level, especially in our own home, is also important.)

Pen, this is such a sticky subject!  DH and I have fairly similar views on the holidays and our wishes are pretty much the same, so thankfully we don't have to deal with one of us wanting something the other doesn't.  It still doesn't mean our boundaries are ever respected though lol.  DH's siblings are pretty well split on who still wants the Santa experience and who wants a more grown up Xmas.  It's frustrating and every year it is the same couples who do not have children yet that want to have Santa visit.  I thought I remembered you saying that your DS/DIL do not have children, so maybe this is something you can give your DS to think on.

What I think is being missed in DH's family is that eventually these couples will have children....or maybe not.  But even so there is a new generation of grandkids and naturally (as in all families) the focus of Xmas generally goes to the kids, there are many people out there as parents who like to play Santa to their own children and don't want anyone else doing it.  I have a feeling with the way you described your DIL that she will probably feel that way.  For me, it's irritating every year for the PIL's trying to play Santa to the grandchildren.  I feel like they are backed into a corner to do it because DH's siblings won't let go of the Santa experience.  I think MIL feels like she needs to play Santa for the grandkids so she can explain why grown ups have stockings at her house and not feel like she is slighting them.  And that extends to us too, she feels like she needs to play Santa to the grown kids who don't want to participate anymore.  I can actually see her side on this one -- who wants to be blatantly unequal in gifts among grown children?  Who wants to dangle stockings in front of little kids and say "nope, not for you!" 

I guess my point is is that maybe this is a way where you can take your DIL's side.  Every year I think it's pretty darn bold of DH's siblings to demand MIL to keep up the Santa experience.  Where I come from you don't demand your parents to do anything.  My parents would *never* ask me what I want them to do for me.  Just never.  They make their own decisions.  So I kind have a beef with your DS telling you want he wants from you.  That wouldn't fly in this family.

So with that said, I think it is a very normal transition for parents to modify holidays for grown children and as they hit their milestones...marriage, kids.  I think there is nothing wrong in not doing the stocking experience for your DS in terms of the big picture.  And if this was me, I'd see this as a very understanding and wise move to make if my in laws did it.  To me, it would show that they are aware of not just a couple of the family members, but ALL of them and they are making a decision for the good of the group.  As it is now, every year they know my take on stockings and easter baskets...I don't want them and I don't want them given to my children (I'm Santa and I'm the Easter bunny too!!!!)  and every year we are hold hostage to only a couple of the family members feelings. 

I do see their position and I see how they are put in the middle so I know it's not easy and it's why I give sort of a pass to this one.  But it would be nice if our position was respected...even every other year.  I think as your DIL is family now maybe she should get a year where her decision is respected.  I think it would show her a lot, Pen.

Pam, reading this made me think of something, and by the way, a very good post and good advice...I'm wondering, if by chance, she wants Pen out, so there is no competition...?  If she fears there would be competition for the floor during Christmas Day, etc? 

Quote from: cremebrulee on October 19, 2010, 12:14:46 PM

Quote from: pam1 on October 19, 2010, 11:27:50 AM

Quote from: Pen on October 19, 2010, 08:26:17 AM
I completely understand respecting DIL boundaries such as this one on birthdays, graduations or whatever (hey, more cash for us to spend on ourselves, LOL), but would like some advice regarding Christmas gifts. What would this look like at a Christmas celebration? For example, DS is still wanting to spend EOY with us, and has stated firmly that he wants stockings and so forth as usual (I know, I know.) While everyone else is pulling silly gifts out of their stockings or opening a gift from under the tree, what is DIL doing? How do we make her more comfortable during that time? Or does she get to dictate our holiday agenda to the point where none of us have stockings or gifts if she's there? I'm not being snarky, I honestly want to know. A real-life example would be very helpful to me.  ("Just let her sit there" doesn't count; that would make us all very uncomfortable, and our comfort level, especially in our own home, is also important.)

Pen, this is such a sticky subject!  DH and I have fairly similar views on the holidays and our wishes are pretty much the same, so thankfully we don't have to deal with one of us wanting something the other doesn't.  It still doesn't mean our boundaries are ever respected though lol.  DH's siblings are pretty well split on who still wants the Santa experience and who wants a more grown up Xmas.  It's frustrating and every year it is the same couples who do not have children yet that want to have Santa visit.  I thought I remembered you saying that your DS/DIL do not have children, so maybe this is something you can give your DS to think on.

What I think is being missed in DH's family is that eventually these couples will have children....or maybe not.  But even so there is a new generation of grandkids and naturally (as in all families) the focus of Xmas generally goes to the kids, there are many people out there as parents who like to play Santa to their own children and don't want anyone else doing it.  I have a feeling with the way you described your DIL that she will probably feel that way.  For me, it's irritating every year for the PIL's trying to play Santa to the grandchildren.  I feel like they are backed into a corner to do it because DH's siblings won't let go of the Santa experience.  I think MIL feels like she needs to play Santa for the grandkids so she can explain why grown ups have stockings at her house and not feel like she is slighting them.  And that extends to us too, she feels like she needs to play Santa to the grown kids who don't want to participate anymore.  I can actually see her side on this one -- who wants to be blatantly unequal in gifts among grown children?  Who wants to dangle stockings in front of little kids and say "nope, not for you!" 

I guess my point is is that maybe this is a way where you can take your DIL's side.  Every year I think it's pretty darn bold of DH's siblings to demand MIL to keep up the Santa experience.  Where I come from you don't demand your parents to do anything.  My parents would *never* ask me what I want them to do for me.  Just never.  They make their own decisions.  So I kind have a beef with your DS telling you want he wants from you.  That wouldn't fly in this family.

So with that said, I think it is a very normal transition for parents to modify holidays for grown children and as they hit their milestones...marriage, kids.  I think there is nothing wrong in not doing the stocking experience for your DS in terms of the big picture.  And if this was me, I'd see this as a very understanding and wise move to make if my in laws did it.  To me, it would show that they are aware of not just a couple of the family members, but ALL of them and they are making a decision for the good of the group.  As it is now, every year they know my take on stockings and easter baskets...I don't want them and I don't want them given to my children (I'm Santa and I'm the Easter bunny too!!!!)  and every year we are hold hostage to only a couple of the family members feelings. 

I do see their position and I see how they are put in the middle so I know it's not easy and it's why I give sort of a pass to this one.  But it would be nice if our position was respected...even every other year.  I think as your DIL is family now maybe she should get a year where her decision is respected.  I think it would show her a lot, Pen.

Pam, reading this made me think of something, and by the way, a very good post and good advice...I'm wondering, if by chance, she wants Pen out, so there is no competition...?  If she fears there would be competition for the floor during Christmas Day, etc?

Creme, with Pen's DIL it very well could be the reason.  I don't know.  And again, these are just my thoughts.  I know Pens situation is so drastically different than mine but alike in some ways.  I know how it is where one side is so unbalanced that they can't even see the other side clearly.  I know I've said before but the in laws take up every inch of our holiday time.  Xmas eve, Xmas day...if we did it their way, which we have, we get zero time during the holiday to actually spend with our kids.  So I know how it feels for Pen to be on the opposite side b/c DH and I fight to get any little bit of time with our own kids that we barely see/talk to my own parents.  I know that is where Pen is at. 

I don't know about every DIL but in our case, I know DH and I have very, very different family cultures.  Until I met DH, I had never met anyone who still played Santa to their grown kids.  I was shocked.  I am not saying they are wrong and I am right...but it was just very shocking to me.  And I already had one child so I felt like I had things taken away from me.  I had not only the Xmas traditions of playing Santa taken away but I also felt like I had a contender.  It was a competition!  MIL always had a bigger stocking.  MIL always gave more gifts than the Santa that came to our home.  MIL's Santa gave more gifts than the other set of grandparents.  And you know, kids notice this.  It's not like DD went running to go see MIL b/c she established a relationship with her, she wanted toys!  And she knew where her best bet to get the biggest and most was from.  I noticed the change in my DD and so did my own parents.  It's not some easy thing to handle within your own kid and no matter how nicely we voiced our concern, we wouldn't get taken seriously.  Hard stuff.

You know, it's not like I think MIL was just wrong, wrong, wrong.  But like I said, the culture was just so very different.  It put ME in a lot of awkward positions and taking things away from me.  And I think it just tended to get looked over.  And while it only comes around once a year, it's a big deal to people.  I get that but it was also a big deal to me.  And as a DIL a lot of the times feeling like part of the family has nothing to do with being treated like the grown kids in the family.  KWIM?  I don't need a stocking to feel like a part of the family, especially when I've requested not to do it year after year.  It makes me feel less like family b/c my feelings for whatever reasons, just aren't respected.

I guess what I'm try to say is that for me and for my various reasons, the holidays don't have to be this much of a struggle for anyone.  If you're confused about what to do over things like stockings b/c of who wants one and who doesn't....well, eliminate the stress.  You don't need a stocking to have a good holiday.  These grown kids know that and they will get over it. 

And I guess, no matter what the reason for Pen's DIL IMO, to me the thing with Pen's sitch....it wasn't Pen or DIL who dropped the ball.  Both Pen and DIL are in an awkward position, Pen doesn't want to make anyone awkward or slight anyone --- and that is totally understandable.  We don't know her DIL's reasoning for not wanting a stocking but we and along with her husband *do* know it would make her uncomfortable. It is her DS with the problem here, IMO.  He is placing his wants (stocking) over his wifes needs (to feel comfortable.)  It's short-sighted of him b/c it really won't make the situation any better for Pen or his wife.  His wife isn't going to feel any more comfortable after this.  And neither is Pen.  And all over a stocking......doesn't seem quite right to me.  But again, Just My Opinion. 

Quote from: pam1 on October 19, 2010, 11:27:50 AM

Quote from: Pen on October 19, 2010, 08:26:17 AM
I completely understand respecting DIL boundaries such as this one on birthdays, graduations or whatever (hey, more cash for us to spend on ourselves, LOL), but would like some advice regarding Christmas gifts. What would this look like at a Christmas celebration? For example, DS is still wanting to spend EOY with us, and has stated firmly that he wants stockings and so forth as usual (I know, I know.) While everyone else is pulling silly gifts out of their stockings or opening a gift from under the tree, what is DIL doing? How do we make her more comfortable during that time? Or does she get to dictate our holiday agenda to the point where none of us have stockings or gifts if she's there? I'm not being snarky, I honestly want to know. A real-life example would be very helpful to me.  ("Just let her sit there" doesn't count; that would make us all very uncomfortable, and our comfort level, especially in our own home, is also important.)

Pen, this is such a sticky subject!  DH and I have fairly similar views on the holidays and our wishes are pretty much the same, so thankfully we don't have to deal with one of us wanting something the other doesn't.  It still doesn't mean our boundaries are ever respected though lol.  DH's siblings are pretty well split on who still wants the Santa experience and who wants a more grown up Xmas.  It's frustrating and every year it is the same couples who do not have children yet that want to have Santa visit.  I thought I remembered you saying that your DS/DIL do not have children, so maybe this is something you can give your DS to think on.

What I think is being missed in DH's family is that eventually these couples will have children....or maybe not.  But even so there is a new generation of grandkids and naturally (as in all families) the focus of Xmas generally goes to the kids, there are many people out there as parents who like to play Santa to their own children and don't want anyone else doing it.  I have a feeling with the way you described your DIL that she will probably feel that way.  For me, it's irritating every year for the PIL's trying to play Santa to the grandchildren.  I feel like they are backed into a corner to do it because DH's siblings won't let go of the Santa experience.  I think MIL feels like she needs to play Santa for the grandkids so she can explain why grown ups have stockings at her house and not feel like she is slighting them.  And that extends to us too, she feels like she needs to play Santa to the grown kids who don't want to participate anymore.  I can actually see her side on this one -- who wants to be blatantly unequal in gifts among grown children?  Who wants to dangle stockings in front of little kids and say "nope, not for you!" 

I guess my point is is that maybe this is a way where you can take your DIL's side.  Every year I think it's pretty darn bold of DH's siblings to demand MIL to keep up the Santa experience.  Where I come from you don't demand your parents to do anything.  My parents would *never* ask me what I want them to do for me.  Just never.  They make their own decisions.  So I kind have a beef with your DS telling you want he wants from you.  That wouldn't fly in this family.

So with that said, I think it is a very normal transition for parents to modify holidays for grown children and as they hit their milestones...marriage, kids.  I think there is nothing wrong in not doing the stocking experience for your DS in terms of the big picture.  And if this was me, I'd see this as a very understanding and wise move to make if my in laws did it.  To me, it would show that they are aware of not just a couple of the family members, but ALL of them and they are making a decision for the good of the group.  As it is now, every year they know my take on stockings and easter baskets...I don't want them and I don't want them given to my children (I'm Santa and I'm the Easter bunny too!!!!)  and every year we are hold hostage to only a couple of the family members feelings. 

I do see their position and I see how they are put in the middle so I know it's not easy and it's why I give sort of a pass to this one.  But it would be nice if our position was respected...even every other year.  I think as your DIL is family now maybe she should get a year where her decision is respected.  I think it would show her a lot, Pen.

Pam1,  I'm sorry but I'm very confused by your post. But thanks for taking the time to write it :)

Are you saying my family shouldn't do the things we want to do at the holidays such as stockings? I know it sounds babyish, but we have a dev disabled adult child who looks forward to them every year, and DS still enjoys them. We all sneak funny things in everyone else's stockings and it's hilarious.

DIL has a FOO and they are very firm about following their traditions. Why are we supposed to change ours? If DIL doesn't want our gifts then no one should get gifts? I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.

Pam1, I love your posts and 99% of the time I agree with you completely, but on this one I have to respectfully disagree.  While I can see your point, I don't really see this as a "need" that Pen's DIL has, it's more of a "want" IMO.  If Pen still enjoys doing the Santa thing, and her kids still enjoy the Santa thing, I don't think she should stop just because it makes DIL a little uncomfortable.  As a DIL I would be even more uncomfortable if my IL's had changed their Christmas traditions just for me (I didn't mind that they celebrated differently than what I was used to, I just didn't like not being included).  I think if there are some family members that want to do a gift exchange and others that don't, maybe a specific time could be set for that purpose (for example if everyone is invited to a meal at 7, then maybe decide to have the gift exchange at 5:30).  Then those that don't want to participate have the option of either going to the exchange and observing (in which case they should act polite and interested in what everyone else is doing), or not attending that part of the celebration at all if they don't wish to. 

Quote from: Pen on October 19, 2010, 06:09:09 PM

Quote from: pam1 on October 19, 2010, 11:27:50 AM

Quote from: Pen on October 19, 2010, 08:26:17 AM
I completely understand respecting DIL boundaries such as this one on birthdays, graduations or whatever (hey, more cash for us to spend on ourselves, LOL), but would like some advice regarding Christmas gifts. What would this look like at a Christmas celebration? For example, DS is still wanting to spend EOY with us, and has stated firmly that he wants stockings and so forth as usual (I know, I know.) While everyone else is pulling silly gifts out of their stockings or opening a gift from under the tree, what is DIL doing? How do we make her more comfortable during that time? Or does she get to dictate our holiday agenda to the point where none of us have stockings or gifts if she's there? I'm not being snarky, I honestly want to know. A real-life example would be very helpful to me.  ("Just let her sit there" doesn't count; that would make us all very uncomfortable, and our comfort level, especially in our own home, is also important.)

Pen, this is such a sticky subject!  DH and I have fairly similar views on the holidays and our wishes are pretty much the same, so thankfully we don't have to deal with one of us wanting something the other doesn't.  It still doesn't mean our boundaries are ever respected though lol.  DH's siblings are pretty well split on who still wants the Santa experience and who wants a more grown up Xmas.  It's frustrating and every year it is the same couples who do not have children yet that want to have Santa visit.  I thought I remembered you saying that your DS/DIL do not have children, so maybe this is something you can give your DS to think on.

What I think is being missed in DH's family is that eventually these couples will have children....or maybe not.  But even so there is a new generation of grandkids and naturally (as in all families) the focus of Xmas generally goes to the kids, there are many people out there as parents who like to play Santa to their own children and don't want anyone else doing it.  I have a feeling with the way you described your DIL that she will probably feel that way.  For me, it's irritating every year for the PIL's trying to play Santa to the grandchildren.  I feel like they are backed into a corner to do it because DH's siblings won't let go of the Santa experience.  I think MIL feels like she needs to play Santa for the grandkids so she can explain why grown ups have stockings at her house and not feel like she is slighting them.  And that extends to us too, she feels like she needs to play Santa to the grown kids who don't want to participate anymore.  I can actually see her side on this one -- who wants to be blatantly unequal in gifts among grown children?  Who wants to dangle stockings in front of little kids and say "nope, not for you!" 

I guess my point is is that maybe this is a way where you can take your DIL's side.  Every year I think it's pretty darn bold of DH's siblings to demand MIL to keep up the Santa experience.  Where I come from you don't demand your parents to do anything.  My parents would *never* ask me what I want them to do for me.  Just never.  They make their own decisions.  So I kind have a beef with your DS telling you want he wants from you.  That wouldn't fly in this family.

So with that said, I think it is a very normal transition for parents to modify holidays for grown children and as they hit their milestones...marriage, kids.  I think there is nothing wrong in not doing the stocking experience for your DS in terms of the big picture.  And if this was me, I'd see this as a very understanding and wise move to make if my in laws did it.  To me, it would show that they are aware of not just a couple of the family members, but ALL of them and they are making a decision for the good of the group.  As it is now, every year they know my take on stockings and easter baskets...I don't want them and I don't want them given to my children (I'm Santa and I'm the Easter bunny too!!!!)  and every year we are hold hostage to only a couple of the family members feelings. 

I do see their position and I see how they are put in the middle so I know it's not easy and it's why I give sort of a pass to this one.  But it would be nice if our position was respected...even every other year.  I think as your DIL is family now maybe she should get a year where her decision is respected.  I think it would show her a lot, Pen.

Pam1,  I'm sorry but I'm very confused by your post. But thanks for taking the time to write it :)

Are you saying my family shouldn't do the things we want to do at the holidays such as stockings? I know it sounds babyish, but we have a dev disabled adult child who looks forward to them every year, and DS still enjoys them. We all sneak funny things in everyone else's stockings and it's hilarious.

DIL has a FOO and they are very firm about following their traditions. Why are we supposed to change ours? If DIL doesn't want our gifts then no one should get gifts? I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.

I'm sorry, Pen.  As you can probably tell I'm pretty frustrated with DH's FOO and their traditions.  I have to keep reminding myself that my situation is just not the same, the MIL's on here aren't taking up the entire holiday -- they are just wanting to participate.  I probably should create my own thread to discuss my own issues and get sorely needed advice.  I'm at my wits end here.

Anyway to clear up, my knee jerk reaction was that your DS is not being a good ambassador.  Pen, he didn't communicate with you clearly.  I gather you probably don't care whether she deserves a gift or stocking (and I'm leaning on the end that she doesn't lol! I'm tired of this gimme me gimme me attitude)  but you are more concerned with the comfort levels of your family members and how awkward it would be to provide gifts/stockings to everyone but her. 

But the thing is, your DS did not state clearly whether she had a boundary of no gifts at all or is he just communicating his frustration about her -- to the wrong source?  Either way, you Pen are going to get caught in the cross hairs.  You simply don't know what he meant by she doesn't deserve it.  Was it a boundary?  Was it frustration?  If you don't give her a gift, will she be offended b/c DS wrongly told you something out of frustration?  If you do give her a gift, will she be offended b/c she told DS no gifts?

It was a communication break down and now you are left holding the bag, Pen.  You're left between two really bad choices IMO.  And the cause of it was just plain old bad communication.  This isn't a MIL or DIL issue, it's a DS one.  JMHO as always.

Quote from: free_at_last on October 20, 2010, 06:35:30 AM
Pam1, I love your posts and 99% of the time I agree with you completely, but on this one I have to respectfully disagree.  While I can see your point, I don't really see this as a "need" that Pen's DIL has, it's more of a "want" IMO.  If Pen still enjoys doing the Santa thing, and her kids still enjoy the Santa thing, I don't think she should stop just because it makes DIL a little uncomfortable.  As a DIL I would be even more uncomfortable if my IL's had changed their Christmas traditions just for me (I didn't mind that they celebrated differently than what I was used to, I just didn't like not being included).  I think if there are some family members that want to do a gift exchange and others that don't, maybe a specific time could be set for that purpose (for example if everyone is invited to a meal at 7, then maybe decide to have the gift exchange at 5:30).  Then those that don't want to participate have the option of either going to the exchange and observing (in which case they should act polite and interested in what everyone else is doing), or not attending that part of the celebration at all if they don't wish to.

FAL :)  we can't agree all the time and I'm ok with that :)  That's why I like it here.  If I wanted to just be agreed with no matter what I said, well...there's tons of in law bashing sites out there.  I love here b/c it makes you think, I can read different perspectives that I never would have thought of..  Thanks, Luise!

I agree with you for the most part.  But the thing is, in theory it sounds great!  In practice?  I don't think it works so well.  And again, this is just my opinion....I've been dealing with this kind of holiday drama for years now and it's never so easy as who doesn't want to participate...you go over there and we do our own thing.  And you know, I'm sure in some families it could work.  But when you've got unhealthier members, you know...the people who say they don't want a gift and then get mad at you when you don't give them one....lol it just doesn't work.

There is no reasoning with the unreasonable. Darned if you do...darned if you don't. Sending love...

We've come accross a familiar situation in my FOO.  Now, no one gets an individual gift or stocking, except the children of course.  We give & get "couples" gifts and "couples" stockings (single people still get their own "individual" gifts).  For example, last year my parents gave DH and I a gift certificate for a couples' massage, and a new grill.  We, as a couple, gave my parents a Lowe's gift card for $100 (they were on a home-renovation kick at that time), and a basket full of homemade cookies, candies, and other snacks that they both could enjoy.  The gift was addressed to both of them, as a couple, and likewise with the gift they gave to us.  And my parents don't buy us individual gifts anymore, they just don't (and they don't try to "sneak" them in either!)...of course, except for the grandchildren.  The first year we did it this way, we all discussed it at Thanksgiving so that everyone was on the same page and in agreement.  Those who weren't there were called and told about it also.  There aren't any minimums/maximums on our gifts, so everyone gives gifts according to what they can afford, without having to worry about "individual" gifts and buying "just the right thing" that each person will like.  It's been a big hit and it works really REALLY well for our family, but I could understand that it may not work well for all, as you're always going to have that one selfish & difficult person (gift-giver or gift-recipient, it happens on both ends) that throws things off.   

Pen - I think that might be a great way for you to still include your DIL, without the chance of over-stepping any boundaries by offering her a personal gift (or not).  Idunno, I can't think of anyone who wouldn't love a gift that both husband and wife could enjoy.  It may even give her the inuendo that you are accepting them as a couple.  Just make sure the gift isn't slanted one way or the other towards DIL or DS.     

Regarding Santa - idunno, I just really believe that should be a "right to passage" for parents of small children, not grandparents.  Grandparents had their turn, and having Santa visit at BOTH (or all three or four) houses leaves a lot of room for competition and hurt feelings.  I know my feelings would most definitely be hurt if Grandma's Santa was better than mine, just because she had more money to spend than I did, or if my daughter threw the toys my Santa got for her aside and said "ok, I'm ready to go see what Santa left me at Grandma's." 

And admit it, we all know women who LOVE to go overboard and turn it into a passive aggressive competition.  "What, I can't spend money on my grandkids?"  *Sigh* Well, I'm sorry your feelings are hurt (*insert inside evil chuckle here*).  I really do know women who would do this, besides the obvious one of course.  These women go overboard on everything at Christmas with cookies, decorations, cooking for the masses, candies, cookies, clothes, gifts, cookies, lights, glitter, tacky snowman sweaters, more cookies, fake snow, blaring music, parties, etc. etc. etc.  Did I mention mounds and mounds of cookies, you know, those ones she will get very upset over if you don't tell her how beautiful her COOKIES are!  It MUST be PERFECT, or she'll get her girdle in a bunch.  We all know at least one of those women.  LOL, my Great-Grandma was one...God rest her soul.  Heck, WE might even BE those women!  ;)

And IMHO, adult children who insist on getting "Santa" gifts are spoiled and should grow up and join the real world where they don't get everything they want.  Maybe it's Mom & Dad's place to stop that, at a reasonable age?  Any parent of adult children who allows their children to dictate their gift-giving isn't doing themselves or society any favors by accommodating their childish wishes.....IMHO of course.   

Here's what I think....and I know some of you MIL's are really going to be upset with me, however, you have got to understand, that your children have they're own families....and they deserve to start they're own traditions....with or without you.

I believe if you wish to have a family dinner, then have it sometime before or after Christmas...
You guys lived your lives, had your children and made your own Christmas and holiday traditions...now it's time to let your sons do the same...if they want to be there that is different, but if they all of a sudden out of the blue say, they don't want to be, don't take it personal...all they want to do is spend Christmas in they're pajamas, at they're own homes, without any of us there, with they're kids...watching them open they're gifts.

I'm not talking to MIL's who never see they're kids....I'm talking to those of you who insist on continuing with your own traditions...this is not fair to your son's family....they deserve to be able to sleep in, go to church, open gifts with they're kids....and it should be they're decission...not because they feel obligated to come....but b/c and only b/c they want to be there....

I say to all folks out there who are in this situation, correct it by planning a week away between Christmas and New Years, just for you.  Go someplace where you can be with your children and start your own traditions....so you can enjoy a nice Christmas Day by yourselves....if that is what you wish, and mom's you need to understand, this is they're day to....

I'm so sorry and I know it must be hard, but it really is stressful and upsetting to have to meet someone else's schedule on Christmas or Thanksgiving Day....

and this is one area that I hold my ground on....b/c I've been there and it actually made me hate Christmas Day so much....all I wanted to do was sit and cry....it was Christmas EVE, Christmas Day and even New Years Eve...had to be with the inlaws....NO, that is so so wrong...

And for MIL's who say they want to watch they're GC open they're gifts, plan it for another time...you had your turn with your own kids, let/allow your kids to have they're turn...this just is so unfair....to expect...and I'm sorry if I'm hurting anyone's feelings, however, it needs to be said and acknowledged...for the sake of everyone concerned....

this should be your gift to them and the heck with presents....Christmas is for kids, not adults...

again, I apologize if anyone is hurt by my post, but I cannot tell you how Christmas was destroyed for me, and I'll never ever get those moments back with my son....period.



Creme

Quote from: miss_priss on October 20, 2010, 08:46:28 AM
We've come accross a familiar situation in my FOO.  Now, no one gets an individual gift or stocking, except the children of course.  We give & get "couples" gifts and "couples" stockings (single people still get their own "individual" gifts).  For example, last year my parents gave DH and I a gift certificate for a couples' massage, and a new grill.  We, as a couple, gave my parents a Lowe's gift card for $100 (they were on a home-renovation kick at that time), and a basket full of homemade cookies, candies, and other snacks that they both could enjoy.  The gift was addressed to both of them, as a couple, and likewise with the gift they gave to us.  And my parents don't buy us individual gifts anymore, they just don't (and they don't try to "sneak" them in either!)...of course, except for the grandchildren.  The first year we did it this way, we all discussed it at Thanksgiving so that everyone was on the same page and in agreement.  Those who weren't there were called and told about it also.  There aren't any minimums/maximums on our gifts, so everyone gives gifts according to what they can afford, without having to worry about "individual" gifts and buying "just the right thing" that each person will like.  It's been a big hit and it works really REALLY well for our family, but I could understand that it may not work well for all, as you're always going to have that one selfish & difficult person (gift-giver or gift-recipient, it happens on both ends) that throws things off.   

Pen - I think that might be a great way for you to still include your DIL, without the chance of over-stepping any boundaries by offering her a personal gift (or not).  Idunno, I can't think of anyone who wouldn't love a gift that both husband and wife could enjoy.  It may even give her the inuendo that you are accepting them as a couple.  Just make sure the gift isn't slanted one way or the other towards DIL or DS.     

Regarding Santa - idunno, I just really believe that should be a "right to passage" for parents of small children, not grandparents.  Grandparents had their turn, and having Santa visit at BOTH (or all three or four) houses leaves a lot of room for competition and hurt feelings.  I know my feelings would most definitely be hurt if Grandma's Santa was better than mine, just because she had more money to spend than I did, or if my daughter threw the toys my Santa got for her aside and said "ok, I'm ready to go see what Santa left me at Grandma's." 

And admit it, we all know women who LOVE to go overboard and turn it into a passive aggressive competition.  "What, I can't spend money on my grandkids?"  *Sigh* Well, I'm sorry your feelings are hurt (*insert inside evil chuckle here*).  I really do know women who would do this, besides the obvious one of course.  These women go overboard on everything at Christmas with cookies, decorations, cooking for the masses, candies, cookies, clothes, gifts, cookies, lights, glitter, tacky snowman sweaters, more cookies, fake snow, blaring music, parties, etc. etc. etc.  Did I mention mounds and mounds of cookies, you know, those ones she will get very upset over if you don't tell her how beautiful her COOKIES are!  It MUST be PERFECT, or she'll get her girdle in a bunch.  We all know at least one of those women.  LOL, my Great-Grandma was one...God rest her soul.  Heck, WE might even BE those women!  ;)

And IMHO, adult children who insist on getting "Santa" gifts are spoiled and should grow up and join the real world where they don't get everything they want. Maybe it's Mom & Dad's place to stop that, at a reasonable age? Any parent of adult children who allows their children to dictate their gift-giving isn't doing themselves or society any favors by accommodating their childish wishes.....IMHO of course.   

This is what I was trying to say.  Especially your last paragraph and the bolded.  Maybe it is the parents place to stop it.  I know my FOO has their rules, you're out of the house?  Santa doesn't visit here lol.

As a DIL coming into the family, if this is what you do *now* before there are grandchildren -- she is thinking but what about after I have kids?  Are they going to keep that up?  Am I going to have to be the "bad" guy and put a stop to this?

For many of us, it's hard to get that a new family unit has been created when our "kids" marry and they have the right to make up their own rules and establish their own traditions. Sometimes we are included and sometimes we aren't but they are inside of that entity and we are outside of it. Conversely, they may still be interested in our traditions or they may not be.

Quote from: luise.volta on October 20, 2010, 09:34:42 AM
For many of us, it's hard to get that a new family unit has been created when our "kids" marry and they have the right to make up their own rules and establish their own traditions. Sometimes we are included and sometimes we aren't but they are inside of that entity and we are outside of it. Conversely, they may still be interested in our traditions or they may not be.

That is very true, Luise but common decency is part of a polite society. We are sorely lacking that today. :)

Quote from: barelythere on October 20, 2010, 09:43:00 AM

Quote from: luise.volta on October 20, 2010, 09:34:42 AM
For many of us, it's hard to get that a new family unit has been created when our "kids" marry and they have the right to make up their own rules and establish their own traditions. Sometimes we are included and sometimes we aren't but they are inside of that entity and we are outside of it. Conversely, they may still be interested in our traditions or they may not be.

That is very true, Luise but common decency is part of a polite society. We are sorely lacking that today. :)

Barelythere, what is common decency to you?  I'm trying to find out what you mean by that?  We're talking about the Holidays...so, am I wrong to think that what your saying is, if your children decide to spend Holidays on they're own, they're being indecent or unfair?

Quote from: cremebrulee on October 20, 2010, 09:46:19 AM

Quote from: barelythere on October 20, 2010, 09:43:00 AM

Quote from: luise.volta on October 20, 2010, 09:34:42 AM
For many of us, it's hard to get that a new family unit has been created when our "kids" marry and they have the right to make up their own rules and establish their own traditions. Sometimes we are included and sometimes we aren't but they are inside of that entity and we are outside of it. Conversely, they may still be interested in our traditions or they may not be.

That is very true, Luise but common decency is part of a polite society. We are sorely lacking that today. :)

Barelythere, what is common decency to you?  I'm trying to find out what you mean by that?  We're talking about the Holidays...so, am I wrong to think that what your saying is, if your children decide to spend Holidays on they're own, they're being indecent or unfair?

Yes, I think leaving your parents out all together at the holidays is not right.  My grown children are not indecent.  To the contrary, they are decent members of society.  For example: one son and DIL and family have been invited to go with friends to their mountain chalet for Thanksgiving.  What a treat!  They are getting together with us, so we won't feel left out, before they go.  I think that's a measure of respect for us for sure.   

Common decency is a term that's used for people who consider others, not just themselves in the world in which we live.  It's a lost lost but great idea. 

ok, here's a question speaking about traditions, before dil married our ds, she came with ds to our holiday celebrations and we thought she enjoyed herself. of coarse hindsite is always 20/20. after she married ds,  she explained in her own fashion to our ds, that our "family traditions" were really not family traditions at all, (what ever that meant?) and that her FOO had "real traditions, and values". HUH???  the first time ds spoke to me of this, i just kinda stood there with a deer in the headlights look, and asked, well what do you think our family traditions are?
he said, "well her family does the same thing ever year" WHAT??? blink, blink??  i said, well we do too, it may be different in the fact its always at a different family members house, but its the same family" ( we have a total of 42 people in our family) so, i am perplexed as to what she meant by "real family traditions and values" ??      anyone?

I agree with you on that, and your right, common decency is when people consider the feelings of others and it's nice that your children are doing that for you....what I'm talking about it parents that will not consider an alternative, and need to have they're children around them on Christmas Day, regardless...and will not be nearly as considerate as your being....and understanding to boot.

Thank you

And again this goes back to respecting boundaries.  It's up to adult individuals to set their own boundaries and express them, and it's up to the parents of young children to set the boundaries for them and express them.  If parents & grandparents can't respect the boundaries (and so many don't) there are always going to be problems.  But I still don't think I can expect the boundaries I set to extend to anyone else, or anyone else's children....meaning....I don't think it's my place to tell anyone they can't give another adult, or someone else's child a stocking if that adult or the parents of that child are perfectly OK with it. 

maybe for some parents, christmas is the only day they would get to see their adult children, for reasons like living far away ect......maybe thats why they insist upon having them christmas day i mean.......... just a thought

Quote from: erma on October 20, 2010, 09:55:45 AM
ok, here's a question speaking about traditions, before dil married our ds, she came with ds to our holiday celebrations and we thought she enjoyed herself. of coarse hindsite is always 20/20. after she married ds,  she explained in her own fashion to our ds, that our "family traditions" were really not family traditions at all, (what ever that meant?) and that her FOO had "real traditions, and values". HUH???  the first time ds spoke to me of this, i just kinda stood there with a deer in the headlights look, and asked, well what do you think our family traditions are?
he said, "well her family does the same thing ever year" WHAT??? blink, blink??  i said, well we do too, it may be different in the fact its always at a different family members house, but its the same family" ( we have a total of 42 people in our family) so, i am perplexed as to what she meant by "real family traditions and values" ??      anyone?

I'm sorry, Erma but just like my son who was sent over here to say: "Christmas is just for the kids!" (meaning, you aren't getting a gift) , he's just saying what he's been told to say.  HP

Quote from: erma on October 20, 2010, 09:55:45 AM
ok, here's a question speaking about traditions, before dil married our ds, she came with ds to our holiday celebrations and we thought she enjoyed herself. of coarse hindsite is always 20/20. after she married ds,  she explained in her own fashion to our ds, that our "family traditions" were really not family traditions at all, (what ever that meant?) and that her FOO had "real traditions, and values". HUH???  the first time ds spoke to me of this, i just kinda stood there with a deer in the headlights look, and asked, well what do you think our family traditions are?
he said, "well her family does the same thing ever year" WHAT??? blink, blink??  i said, well we do too, it may be different in the fact its always at a different family members house, but its the same family" ( we have a total of 42 people in our family) so, i am perplexed as to what she meant by "real family traditions and values" ??      anyone?

Not a clue hun, it seems to me that she is just seeking out...
maybe 42 people on Christmas day overwhelm her? 
speaking only from my own experience, I was never comfortable at my inlaws home....

and I hated those care packages she insisted on sending home?  Sheesh.... ::)
I mean, we came home with a box of stuff, and he hated leftovers and she knew it???? But if we would try to politely bow out politely, she would get upset....she continually had to have her way, had to be her way, all the time?////

Quote from: cremebrulee on October 20, 2010, 10:03:56 AM

Quote from: erma on October 20, 2010, 09:55:45 AM
ok, here's a question speaking about traditions, before dil married our ds, she came with ds to our holiday celebrations and we thought she enjoyed herself. of coarse hindsite is always 20/20. after she married ds,  she explained in her own fashion to our ds, that our "family traditions" were really not family traditions at all, (what ever that meant?) and that her FOO had "real traditions, and values". HUH???  the first time ds spoke to me of this, i just kinda stood there with a deer in the headlights look, and asked, well what do you think our family traditions are?
he said, "well her family does the same thing ever year" WHAT??? blink, blink??  i said, well we do too, it may be different in the fact its always at a different family members house, but its the same family" ( we have a total of 42 people in our family) so, i am perplexed as to what she meant by "real family traditions and values" ??      anyone?

Not a clue hun, it seems to me that she is just seeking out...
maybe 42 people on Christmas day overwhelm her? 
speaking only from my own experience, I was never comfortable at my inlaws home....

and I hated those care packages she insisted on sending home?  Sheesh.... ::)
I mean, we came home with a box of stuff, and he hated leftovers and she knew it???? But if we would try to politely bow out politely, she would get upset....she continually had to have her way, had to be her way, all the time?////

We are all so different!  I guess that's what makes this interesting.  When at the inlaws for Christmas, we were sent home with boat loads of left overs.  It was yummmmmy!  We loved it.  And my MIL wasn't trying to have her way, she was trying to be kind. 

Quote from: erma on October 20, 2010, 10:01:56 AM
maybe for some parents, christmas is the only day they would get to see their adult children, for reasons like living far away ect......maybe thats why they insist upon having them christmas day i mean.......... just a thought

Erma, I understand that, totally, however, my son lives far away, and I've never seen them on Christmas day...Erma, like I said, and with all due respect....yes, a perfect world would be that we could see our children and spend the holiday with them, however, they need they're quality time with they're own family to.  They have they're own family...we had our turn...now it should be there turn....and I know I seem heartless and contrary, and apologize for that, however, I was on both ends of the coin....and it's awful, cuz you never get to have that quality time with your little ones, and I know it hurts, however, you had that time with your kids, now they need the same thing....

and some kids want to be there, but those that don't, I just think we need to look past ourselves and allow them that...they deserve it, and it's rightfully they'res....do I make any sense?
It's nothing personal...they're not angry, they just want to stay home, they're working full time maybe and it is the only time they get to spend it to....

Quote from: barelythere on October 20, 2010, 10:07:01 AM

Quote from: cremebrulee on October 20, 2010, 10:03:56 AM

Quote from: erma on October 20, 2010, 09:55:45 AM
ok, here's a question speaking about traditions, before dil married our ds, she came with ds to our holiday celebrations and we thought she enjoyed herself. of coarse hindsite is always 20/20. after she married ds,  she explained in her own fashion to our ds, that our "family traditions" were really not family traditions at all, (what ever that meant?) and that her FOO had "real traditions, and values". HUH???  the first time ds spoke to me of this, i just kinda stood there with a deer in the headlights look, and asked, well what do you think our family traditions are?
he said, "well her family does the same thing ever year" WHAT??? blink, blink??  i said, well we do too, it may be different in the fact its always at a different family members house, but its the same family" ( we have a total of 42 people in our family) so, i am perplexed as to what she meant by "real family traditions and values" ??      anyone?

Not a clue hun, it seems to me that she is just seeking out...
maybe 42 people on Christmas day overwhelm her? 
speaking only from my own experience, I was never comfortable at my inlaws home....

and I hated those care packages she insisted on sending home?  Sheesh.... ::)
I mean, we came home with a box of stuff, and he hated leftovers and she knew it???? But if we would try to politely bow out politely, she would get upset....she continually had to have her way, had to be her way, all the time?////

We are all so different!  I guess that's what makes this interesting.  When at the inlaws for Christmas, we were sent home with boat loads of left overs.  It was yummmmmy!  We loved it.  And my MIL wasn't trying to have her way, she was trying to be kind.

yes, they are yummy, however, my husband wouldn't eat any left overs what so ever, so guess where all that food ended up....and by the way, he also wouldn't eat anything that was frozen...he claimed it made him vomit?   ::)

Quote from: cremebrulee on October 20, 2010, 10:09:20 AM

Quote from: barelythere on October 20, 2010, 10:07:01 AM

Quote from: cremebrulee on October 20, 2010, 10:03:56 AM

Quote from: erma on October 20, 2010, 09:55:45 AM
ok, here's a question speaking about traditions, before dil married our ds, she came with ds to our holiday celebrations and we thought she enjoyed herself. of coarse hindsite is always 20/20. after she married ds,  she explained in her own fashion to our ds, that our "family traditions" were really not family traditions at all, (what ever that meant?) and that her FOO had "real traditions, and values". HUH???  the first time ds spoke to me of this, i just kinda stood there with a deer in the headlights look, and asked, well what do you think our family traditions are?
he said, "well her family does the same thing ever year" WHAT??? blink, blink??  i said, well we do too, it may be different in the fact its always at a different family members house, but its the same family" ( we have a total of 42 people in our family) so, i am perplexed as to what she meant by "real family traditions and values" ??      anyone?

Not a clue hun, it seems to me that she is just seeking out...
maybe 42 people on Christmas day overwhelm her? 
speaking only from my own experience, I was never comfortable at my inlaws home....

and I hated those care packages she insisted on sending home?  Sheesh.... ::)
I mean, we came home with a box of stuff, and he hated leftovers and she knew it???? But if we would try to politely bow out politely, she would get upset....she continually had to have her way, had to be her way, all the time?////

We are all so different!  I guess that's what makes this interesting.  When at the inlaws for Christmas, we were sent home with boat loads of left overs.  It was yummmmmy!  We loved it.  And my MIL wasn't trying to have her way, she was trying to be kind.

yes, they are yummy, however, my husband wouldn't eat any left overs what so ever, so guess where all that food ended up....and by the way, he also wouldn't eat anything that was frozen...he claimed it made him vomit?   ::)

He sounds like he was a quite a trip.

Traditions and values are interesting: What I see in myself is that first I make something up...then I believe it...and then I'm at the effect of it.  ;D ;D

Quote from: barelythere on October 20, 2010, 10:12:11 AM

Quote from: cremebrulee on October 20, 2010, 10:09:20 AM

Quote from: barelythere on October 20, 2010, 10:07:01 AM

Quote from: cremebrulee on October 20, 2010, 10:03:56 AM

Quote from: erma on October 20, 2010, 09:55:45 AM
ok, here's a question speaking about traditions, before dil married our ds, she came with ds to our holiday celebrations and we thought she enjoyed herself. of coarse hindsite is always 20/20. after she married ds,  she explained in her own fashion to our ds, that our "family traditions" were really not family traditions at all, (what ever that meant?) and that her FOO had "real traditions, and values". HUH???  the first time ds spoke to me of this, i just kinda stood there with a deer in the headlights look, and asked, well what do you think our family traditions are?
he said, "well her family does the same thing ever year" WHAT??? blink, blink??  i said, well we do too, it may be different in the fact its always at a different family members house, but its the same family" ( we have a total of 42 people in our family) so, i am perplexed as to what she meant by "real family traditions and values" ??      anyone?

Not a clue hun, it seems to me that she is just seeking out...
maybe 42 people on Christmas day overwhelm her? 
speaking only from my own experience, I was never comfortable at my inlaws home....

and I hated those care packages she insisted on sending home?  Sheesh.... ::)
I mean, we came home with a box of stuff, and he hated leftovers and she knew it???? But if we would try to politely bow out politely, she would get upset....she continually had to have her way, had to be her way, all the time?////

We are all so different!  I guess that's what makes this interesting.  When at the inlaws for Christmas, we were sent home with boat loads of left overs.  It was yummmmmy!  We loved it.  And my MIL wasn't trying to have her way, she was trying to be kind.

yes, they are yummy, however, my husband wouldn't eat any left overs what so ever, so guess where all that food ended up....and by the way, he also wouldn't eat anything that was frozen...he claimed it made him vomit?   ::)

He sounds like he was a quite a trip.

yeah, he was, and so was his mom.....very controlling family....they were a huge family, lots of aunts, uncles, cousins, nephews....anyway, if someone was having a party, and they had a party for EVERYTHING....she would call me and dictate to me, how much money I had to put in the card....and Barely there, I never sassed her....never defied her, but it made me a nervous wreck...and still think to this day, that is what sparked my MS....it made me crazy, b/c I felt I couldn't say a word, it wouldn't be nice to do so...but my husband and I did fight about it, and he always took her side....parents were to be respected and that was that, and even my sister in law, told me, I had to start saying no...do you know, when his father was sick, we went to the hospital every single day and it was 1/2 hour away....not much but enough when your making the trip everyday....
When my step father passed away, whom, loved my husband by the way, no one, but no one in they're family came to the funeral, except my husband?  That did it for me....to this day, I cannot ever forget that....I'm not angry, however, it really really hurt...all those years, going to every single family affair, and actually being afraid not to go...
So, BarelyThere, I know you guys get really upset by my posts....however, I've been there, I've been one of those DIL's and it is horrid....just as horrid as having a very mean DIL....so please know I don't mean you any harm....and I know my mil was just trying to be nice, but no matter what we said to her, she didn't hear no....we would try and politiely say to her, well, we really won't eat it....or we really would rather not, but thank you, and she was not able to hear us saying no, without coming out and saying NO to her....

I guess I should be thankful, but she used to drive to the outlets every month, and she bought me gobs of crystal, my good set of dishes, a TV, my wedding dress, but never asked me once if I liked it...or wanted it, or needed it, it had to be her way....that was her way of controling the situation, and she took completely over....it was God awful....but she didn't do it to be mean, she did it b/c she lost her parents at an early age, and had to raise her brothers, she was so used to making all the decissions, I didn't realize that then, but do now...it wasn't that she was being mean at all...she was trying to help and be kind, but it just over extended so much into our privet lives and took away my identity....I wasn't in charge of our marriage nor did I ahve a say, it was all they're decissions.....and, they were also Italian....old world Italian....

Quote from: cremebrulee on October 20, 2010, 10:27:27 AM
I guess I should be thankful, but she used to drive to the outlets every month, and she bought me gobs of crystal, my good set of dishes, a TV, my wedding dress, but never asked me once if I liked it...or wanted it, or needed it, it had to be her way....that was her way of controling the situation, and she took completely over....it was God awful....but she didn't do it to be mean, she did it b/c she lost her parents at an early age, and had to raise her brothers, she was so used to making all the decissions, I didn't realize that then, but do now...it wasn't that she was being mean at all...she was trying to help and be kind, but it just over extended so much into our privet lives and took away my identity....I wasn't in charge of our marriage nor did I ahve a say, it was all they're decissions.....and, they were also Italian....old world Italian....

It seems like you'd have had problems with your Hubby even if she wasn't in the picture.  I had a response all written out but it went into cyberspace!  BOO!

yes, i totally understand that, when my kids were young, i too wanted to have my own little privite holiday. and we did! it was ok the couple of times we did it, but i could tell dh was somewhere else, he enjoyed our own privite celabration but wanted to be with his foo too. so did i. i love the hussel and bussel, the cooking the trimmings, the cookies, the comraderie...... i love it all, even the one family member thats gets a little too tipsy at the table if ya know what i mean.
and no, cream, its not a perfect world, thats why we all must make an effort, even if its only for 1 day.
hugs

Quote from: erma on October 20, 2010, 10:36:06 AM
yes, i totally understand that, when my kids were young, i too wanted to have my own little privite holiday. and we did! it was ok the couple of times we did it, but i could tell dh was somewhere else, he enjoyed our own privite celabration but wanted to be with his foo too. so did i. i love the hussel and bussel, the cooking the trimmings, the cookies, the comraderie...... i love it all, even the one family member thats gets a little too tipsy at the table if ya know what i mean.
and no, cream, its not a perfect world, thats why we all must make an effort, even if its only for 1 day.
hugs

Ain't it the truth???  I am here to tell you, these crazy people I grew up with were dysfunctionally hilarious.  Not to be missed for sure.  My hubby could have told them all off but didn't.  I guess I could have done the same to his but didn't.  So glad.

Quote from: barelythere on October 20, 2010, 10:35:33 AM

Quote from: cremebrulee on October 20, 2010, 10:27:27 AM
I guess I should be thankful, but she used to drive to the outlets every month, and she bought me gobs of crystal, my good set of dishes, a TV, my wedding dress, but never asked me once if I liked it...or wanted it, or needed it, it had to be her way....that was her way of controling the situation, and she took completely over....it was God awful....but she didn't do it to be mean, she did it b/c she lost her parents at an early age, and had to raise her brothers, she was so used to making all the decissions, I didn't realize that then, but do now...it wasn't that she was being mean at all...she was trying to help and be kind, but it just over extended so much into our privet lives and took away my identity....I wasn't in charge of our marriage nor did I ahve a say, it was all they're decissions.....and, they were also Italian....old world Italian....

It seems like you'd have had problems with your Hubby even if she wasn't in the picture.  I had a response all written out but it went into cyberspace!  BOO!

yes, your right, however, hubby was a carbon copy of his mother, remember, we are just that....we develop so much of our characters from our parents, we actually parrot them...do you know, Barely There, that when my GD was little, I could already notice her mother's character in her....and some of it is in the genes....we inherit so much of who we are from our parents.....

But, I appreciate your understanding....

yes, it's really hard when you loose what you've written...

Quote from: erma on October 20, 2010, 10:36:06 AM
yes, i totally understand that, when my kids were young, i too wanted to have my own little privite holiday. and we did! it was ok the couple of times we did it, but i could tell dh was somewhere else, he enjoyed our own privite celabration but wanted to be with his foo too. so did i. i love the hussel and bussel, the cooking the trimmings, the cookies, the comraderie...... i love it all, even the one family member thats gets a little too tipsy at the table if ya know what i mean.
and no, cream, its not a perfect world, thats why we all must make an effort, even if its only for 1 day.
hugs

yanno what, why couldn't there be a compromise....one year where DIL wants to go, one year where son wants to go...? 

Or, like my one girlfriend does for her three boys and they're wives, they always have Christmas dinner at her house the Sat. night before, she says, that way they get to be home with they're kids on Christmas day?

way ahead of ya cream!   ;) we've been doing that for many many years. just that now, dil, feels her "family traditions" are more important than ours. she calls all the shots, no effort or concern as to how we feel or ds side of the family. i have turned my family's traditions upside down to try and fit "her" schedule into the scheme of things, then when we've finally come to a "set date" and final conclusion, ds calls last minute and "they cant make it" for some silly made up reason or another. that's why i say "EFFORT is needed on both sides. but this is not to be for now. i quit trying to fit our traditions to her. she has her own. allows no room for ds's, and that's sad. for us and ds. so, until ds finds a way to compremise his situation, we have to just sit and wait. UHG! ::)

Guest 1 what I would do is send a gift card to her so the DIL can buy what she wants.  Your DIL sounds like she is half cocked herself.  What would make her go off on you for wishing her a happy birthday????  Next birthday send her a birthday card so she can scream at the card instead of you.  Sheesh.  I have heard it all now!  I have a DIL that pretends like she loves me only when my son is present and then turns into a monster when he goes to work.  She is a real trip and I just don't visit much because of the dual personality.   I know she resents his love for me as his mother.  I am not his LOVER...she is.  I birthed him and gave him love and taught him how have a loving personality.  Heck, he won her love so why hate me when I as a parent taught him the foundations of life and love!  DIL's in today's society have no respect for their elders the way we did growing up and being DIL ourselves!

Quote from: erma on October 20, 2010, 11:06:14 AM
way ahead of ya cream!   ;) we've been doing that for many many years. just that now, dil, feels her "family traditions" are more important than ours. she calls all the shots, no effort or concern as to how we feel or ds side of the family. i have turned my family's traditions upside down to try and fit "her" schedule into the scheme of things, then when we've finally come to a "set date" and final conclusion, ds calls last minute and "they cant make it" for some silly made up reason or another. that's why i say "EFFORT is needed on both sides. but this is not to be for now. i quit trying to fit our traditions to her. she has her own. allows no room for ds's, and that's sad. for us and ds. so, until ds finds a way to compremise his situation, we have to just sit and wait. UHG! ::)

hmmm, I wonder if her mother was my MIL?  Just kidding,
what a tough situation Erma.....and yes, it's got to be mutual

I guess no one liked my suggestion, since it was again, of course, not acknowledged and skipped over by everyone but pam1.  I thought it would be a reasonable solution to the main topic at hand, but I'm sure it will be only be referenced in a joking manner later on, again. 

Miss Priss, at least your suggestions aren't being discussed on another thread as silly. 

I don't get it and I keep seeing it happen here, why not just direct your comments to the poster directly rather than in another thread?  Do you think the poster it was directed to won't see it?  Or get it?

miss priss, i read your suggestion, i think your on target as far as the santa deal, we've had our time, and its their turn to play santa, and i love your idea of giving "family" gifts. however, in my situation, we tried that, after we got past the year of "if your giving us gifts after we turn 21 your immature" year, we were told not to get DIL anything. we didn't, boy was i sorry, she sent a rude sarcastic letter saying "thank you so much for the presents i DIDNT receive" and how courteous we were for thinking of her, and on and on. so we tried the planning things deal the next year, asking her how much we get to spend, she gave us an exceptable amount, and off we went shopping! she picked out what she wanted, (an ipod) and we wrapped presents together and put them under the tree! oh boy i was happy to think we finally had her approval!  WRONG! Christmas came, they opened their gift, which she had picked, but since i had not put their first names on it, i addressed it MR. and Mrs._______ she proceeded to tell us that it was meant for him not her, and she  "didn't have anything under the tree" SHOCK SHOCK SHOCK!!!!
YES, i loved your ideas! i loved them so much i tried them my self, and truly i wish they would have worked. but not to be. so, if you have another idea, that may work?? i love hearing your perspective and side of things, truly.

Quote from: erma on October 20, 2010, 01:17:15 PM
miss priss, i read your suggestion, i think your on target as far as the santa deal, we've had our time, and its their turn to play santa, and i love your idea of giving "family" gifts. however, in my situation, we tried that, after we got past the year of "if your giving us gifts after we turn 21 your immature" year, we were told not to get DIL anything. we didn't, boy was i sorry, she sent a rude sarcastic letter saying "thank you so much for the presents i DIDNT receive" and how courteous we were for thinking of her, and on and on. so we tried the planning things deal the next year, asking her how much we get to spend, she gave us an exceptable amount, and off we went shopping! she picked out what she wanted, (an ipod) and we wrapped presents together and put them under the tree! oh boy i was happy to think we finally had her approval!  WRONG! Christmas came, they opened their gift, which she had picked, but since i had not put their first names on it, i addressed it MR. and Mrs._______ she proceeded to tell us that it was meant for him not her, and she  "didn't have anything under the tree" SHOCK SHOCK SHOCK!!!!
YES, i loved your ideas! i loved them so much i tried them my self, and truly i wish they would have worked. but not to be. so, if you have another idea, that may work?? i love hearing your perspective and side of things, truly.

My idea for a person like that is *nothing*  They are ungrateful and you will never satisfy them.  Buy a goat for some poor village in her name and call it a day.  These busy body, demanding, entitled people don't get to ruin everyones holidays.

miss priss, I think your suggestion would work fine for some families, but like pam1 pointed out about my suggestion...it's great in theory but in reality it isn't going to work for some families.  My IL's (ALL of whom are now cut off) did "couples" gifts occasionally after being told by my husband that he would not tolerate them completely ignoring me.  The problem was, they weren't really couples gifts at all.  They were his gifts that they put both of our names on, and sometimes these "gifts" were even something that they already had and just didn't need anymore.  He then asked them to please stop giving all of us gifts altogether....and they then said they just couldn't do that, gave him another used gift, and went back to ignoring me.  That was the last Christmas we spent with them.  Christmas was only a minor problem compared to everything else that we were dealing with concerning them, but they were using the "couples" gifts as just one more way to try to hurt me.

I too have noticed that quite a few of our posts as DILs are either passed over or jokingly referred to later on or elsewhere.  Possibly because these posts hit a little too close to home sometimes?

QuoteMiss Priss, at least your suggestions aren't being discussed on another thread as silly. 

I don't get it and I keep seeing it happen here, why not just direct your comments to the poster directly rather than in another thread?  Do you think the poster it was directed to won't see it?  Or get it?

Pam1 - you're spot on.  I know exactly what you're referring to, and I think the participants in that really need to be ashamed of themselves.  Yet it's the "20-30 somethings" that have no "common courtesy or respect."  I think I'm about over this.

HUH??? ??? ??? ???

Quotemiss priss, I think your suggestion would work fine for some families, but like pam1 pointed out about my suggestion...it's great in theory but in reality it isn't going to work for some families.  My IL's (ALL of whom are now cut off) did "couples" gifts occasionally after being told by my husband that he would not tolerate them completely ignoring me.  The problem was, they weren't really couples gifts at all.  They were his gifts that they put both of our names on, and sometimes these "gifts" were even something that they already had and just didn't need anymore.  He then asked them to please stop giving all of us gifts altogether....and they then said they just couldn't do that, gave him another used gift, and went back to ignoring me.  That was the last Christmas we spent with them.  Christmas was only a minor problem compared to everything else that we were dealing with concerning them, but they were using the "couples" gifts as just one more way to try to hurt me.

FAL - I totally get what you're saying here.  This is going to sound very mean to a lot of people, but the "couples" gifting concept probably would only work for families.....scratch that, let's face it, WOMEN do the majority of the shopping the majority of the time.  So this concept would only work for women who were reasonable enough to be able to pick out an appropriate "couples" gift and give it genuinely, and without malice.  MIL's like yours, obviously, couldn't do that (thus she gave a "couples gift" that was only appropriate for DH...so it won't work.  Like I said, there's always that one who throws things off, in your case it was the gift-giver.  We hadn't tried this with my MIL, but if I had to take a guess based on her track record...I'd say she would do something similar to what your MIL did.  Again, that's just my speculation. 

And now I feel the need to throw out the disclaimer, so that no one gets offended....again....(sigh)

This statement does not imply, suggest, or state that all Mothers in Law do not know how to shop, or give appropriate gifts.  This statement simply says that FAL's MIL didn't know how to, and then speculated on MY OWN MIL, not you, if you're reading this, so please do not take offense or feel the need to exert that you are not like FAL's MIL.  No one said you were.

QuoteI too have noticed that quite a few of our posts as DILs are either passed over or jokingly referred to later on or elsewhere.  Possibly because these posts hit a little too close to home sometimes?

I was wondering if Pam and I were the only ones who noticed this.  I was really hoping we weren't imagining it. 

Dear Miss Priss and Pam 1

You are right.  It happens sometimes but not only from mils to dils, the opposite happens too.  Or from a mil to another mil. 

We are also different and have different points of views and that is what makes discussion great.  We should always exclude the words "silly"or "ridiculous" I hate it when posters do that to any poster, I go....ups. 

There should always be respect because we have to disgree sometimes but we are here to express our opinion.

Now ladies (Pam and Priss) I personally have learned a lot from you.  I would never laugh about you.  And I wouldnt never like to give you guys the impression that you are right about mils because of the way we answer posts.  Not all mils are like the ones you got (lucky you lol), and I never feel ofended by your posts when you talk about your own mils, because it does not suit me, I dont take it personally because it doesnt sound like me.   I did have my problems with dil for two years but now we are relatively close (keeping boundaries) and she acknowledge that she treated me in the way she did because she did not wanted to give me the opportunity to be intrusive in their lives and that she realized afterwards that I was not that way.

So girls, maybe (just maybe) you would have liked me as a mil lol. 

Please Pam and Miss Priss... dont feel offended...  you know many posters do like and appreciate your post.

Good luck

Love

What in the round world are you all talking about??

OK. Time out. Stop. Take what you want and leave the rest. That's it. We aren't going to choose up sides here and see who is getting the best of whom. Time to stop posting for a while if it has come to that. We don't have to agree and we don't have to be defensive. We don't have to do anything except: "take what we want and leave the rest."  If that doesn't work for any of you...there are oodles of bickering sites you can go to, so have at it. On this site, if a thread isn't offering you what you want, don't post on it. It's that simple.