Recently Trying asked if anyone else was relieved that the holidays were over. Count me in.
We actually had very pleasant holidays. All the AC were home. The chilly DIL acknowledged us this Christmas. No issues, no confrontations. No arguments, no tears. All very pleasant.
I realize, however, that I am a complete non-entity for the duration of the visit.
I can't ask any questions - because they are adults and for me to ask any questions would be considered nosy and intrusive (other than questions about the weather, of course).
Certainly I have never given unsolicited advice - but I cannot even express an opinion in a general sense because they would take it personally and consider it to be meddling.
I can ask questions of my friends, because they realize a question is simply a question - nothing more. I can express an opinion to my friends, because they realize it is simply my opinion in a general sense, not a directive on how they should live their lives. In other words, I can be myself. I can have conversations and share thoughts.
With ACs, particularly chilly DIL, since one cannot ask questions or make statements about much other than the weather, I find myself essentially a non-entity during the visit. Several images come to mind ---
Putting a straight-jacket on my personality.
Being a Stepford Mom/MIL
Neutering any personality I might have.
Being muzzled.
Thank goodness they're all gone. ;D ;D ;D
Shelby ....
You should have celebrated the season with some bubbly , become yourself , stood back and watched the fireworks ! LOL
I think everyone has to decide what works for them. You had a pleasant holiday, so if that's your goal, then you accomplished it. Did it cause you to be quiet and out of character? Sounds like it but can you live with that to keep peace? Nothing wrong with that as long as you accept that how it will be in order to have those relationships.
One of my goals this year was to remember that I am who I am. Not apologize for it, make excuses for it and to just be me. I'm not faultless, but I personally would rather spend holidays with those that appreciate me for me than those whom I have to be someone else to be around. I made that decision for myself, knowing full well the consequences I will face down the road for doing it. But I had a very nice holiday with people who were also themselves. They have faults too, but I accept their faults along with all their good qualities. I expect the same courtesy.
Glad you got through it. It was hard for me, too, because at my age (84) it is all getting pretty diluted. Mostly, it was having to deal (or not deal) with foods that aren't good for me and waiting to see those who are really busy doing other things or to hear from those that are far away. Life in the slow lane. ;) Sending love...
Hey Shelby-
How does DH feel about making other plans next year?
Shelby, I feel your pain. It's one of the biggest reason I refuse to make the inlaws the central event of the holidays anymore. I don't feel like spending 3 days with a muzzle on either! lol So if we do spend any part of the holiday it is a small, few hour event with other people there that I can have a good time with. Life is too short to have joy taken out of the holidays so I won't do it anymore.
I'm with Pooh, you have to decide what works for you. Even if it was pleasant, is it still worth it to you?
Food for thought, for sure. I've become the queen of shutting up to get along, but I too am really tired of it. I find when I muzzle one part of myself I also close off other parts that I might not have wanted to squelch such as my sense of humor or my creativity.
Thanks for this topic, Shelby, and thanks for all the input from everyone.
Quote from: Shelby on January 11, 2012, 09:00:58 AM
Recently Trying asked if anyone else was relieved that the holidays were over.
I can't ask any questions - because they are adults and for me to ask any questions would be considered nosy and intrusive (other than questions about the weather, of course).
Certainly I have never given unsolicited advice - but I cannot even express an opinion in a general sense because they would take it personally and consider it to be meddling.
I can ask questions of my friends, because they realize a question is simply a question - nothing more. I can express an opinion to my friends, because they realize it is simply my opinion in a general sense, not a directive on how they should live their lives. In other words, I can be myself. I can have conversations and share thoughts.
With ACs, particularly chilly DIL, since one cannot ask questions or make statements about much other than the weather, I find myself essentially a non-entity during the visit.
I totally agree Shelby. I've also had to muzzle myself. I'm certainly not allowed to have any opinion about anything, so I also talk about the weather and mostly just interact with the granddaughters.
But, thank goodness, this Christmas DS came over with GDs and the DIL didn't bother to show up, so we had an excellent day, could talk about all sorts of things (which I'm sure got back to DIL), but we didn't criticize her at all, didn't even mention her name. So I'm hoping the next time we see them, she will not be there, I really don't need that stress.
Shelby-
I didn't spend Xmas with My Punishers (new names for DS/DIL) but spent a week with them in their home earlier this year. I got that muzzled feeling, but a stronger feeling of being bored with the conversation that I was limited to. I was surprised since DS was always great fun to be with, smart, interesting tastes, quick witted. But not now. It was a bit of a relief to get back to my own tastes and interests.
Quote from: Doe on January 12, 2012, 09:12:07 AM
Shelby-
I didn't spend Xmas with My Punishers (new names for DS/DIL) but spent a week with them in their home earlier this year. I got that muzzled feeling, but a stronger feeling of being bored with the conversation that I was limited to. I was surprised since DS was always great fun to be with, smart, interesting tastes, quick witted. But not now. It was a bit of a relief to get back to my own tastes and interests.
That's it! Boredom!
Quote from: Pen on January 11, 2012, 09:56:03 PM
Food for thought, for sure. I've become the queen of shutting up to get along, but I too am really tired of it. I find when I muzzle one part of myself I also close off other parts that I might not have wanted to squelch such as my sense of humor or my creativity.
Thanks for this topic, Shelby, and thanks for all the input from everyone.
When we muzzle ourselves in order to not say anything that could possibly not sit well with a DIL, SIL or AC, we wind up squelching our sense of humor or creativity. That makes the whole interaction quite boring.
Quote from: Doe on January 11, 2012, 12:56:05 PM
Hey Shelby-
How does DH feel about making other plans next year?
There was no conflict, no issue with anything, just a Stepford Mom/MIL, and a couple of boring days. I don't think we'll make other plans for holidays next year. As long as my parents and my FIL are alive we'll stay home and see them. Of course our ACs and ILs will be invited. It's not painful - just a little boring. But I can tough that one out. What was amusing was one time I mentioned to DS that of course we understood that he and DIL would not want to vacation with us - that they were obviously beyond family trips. He replied that they would be willing to go to (another continent half a world away) with us. I just looked out the window. Having them all home for the holidays, being muzzled and being bored is one thing. And it was free. Spending tons of money to haul the family half-way around the world on vacation - and be muzzled and bored in another country - hey, another hemisphere, for crying out loud --- Ain't gonna happen. Any traveling DH and I do will be just the dynamic duo. Or 3 Musketeers if the dog comes along. ;D
We all do what we have to do...and being muzzled is the pits for most of us. I have done it, too...left my real self at the doorstep and become a doormat. (When I was young, that's the way wives were supposed to be for all of the time. Hard to believe!) These days, with extended families, we weigh the consequences of being real and alive against the repercussions of doing that.
For many years, until a divorce intervened, I went silently to DS's place on the rare occasions we were asked and then toughed out the dry spells in between. When I was around DIL (so as to have a few moments with DS) I wished I was home...and when I was home and didn't hear from him, I wished I was there. If wishes were fishes...
He wasn't himself...he was subdued and silently apologetic and trying to pretend everything was fine. It broke my heart and yet, it was his lesson. We went there once to deliver a car that he was buying from us, and he had to stand out at the curb and talk to us because we hadn't been officially invited by Her Royal Highness. Hear the bitterness in that remark? That was twenty years ago!
Sometimes it helps me to think about it like being at work. I remind myself not everyone needs to know everything about the real, true me. In fact, things are usually nicer when they don't. They can know slices of me, and they can know my pleasant surface me. They don't need to hear my opinions on subjects they could be sensitive about, for me to have a good time. I share this because I was so relieved when I truly realized, not everyone in my life needs to be privvy to such wonderful details about me. 8)
Not that it's a total blast to be on office etiquette around family - and in one's own house, to boot. But merely pleasant can still be really nice.
oh and also Luise, ' if wishes were horses the devil would ride'! ha .
you know I have come to terms with the 'muzzled' lifestyle. There are many many people who are not able to sustain anything more than surface relationships, and my work has taught me to have to wear many faces and be on auto-adjust all the time to sense this out and react accordingly. I think its a good skill to learn. I've learned to dish this out to MIL, and be fine with me, the joke isn't on me. The real meat is only reserved for those pea pickin' few in our lives who really matter.
Quote from: Ruth on January 12, 2012, 02:02:23 PM
you know I have come to terms with the 'muzzled' lifestyle. There are many many people who are not able to sustain anything more than surface relationships.....
The real meat is only reserved for those pea pickin' few in our lives who really matter.
I love this idea, Ruth. Reminds me of the old saying "Like throwing pearls to swine."
If they don't want my pearls, then I don't want them to have them.
I think most of us learn to do that in superficial relationships. If we don't, we're in trouble. Where I live (a senior community) when we say, "Hi, how are your?", we really don't want to know. LOL! And there are those who want to back you up against a wall and tell you!"
(We call it an organ recital!)
I agree. I think we all do that with the superficial, co-workers and casual aquaintances. I think the shame is in when people are having to do this with their own parents, children and in-laws. To me, these shouldn't be superficial relationships.
Quote from: Pooh on January 13, 2012, 05:30:23 AM
I agree. I think we all do that with the superficial, co-workers and casual aquaintances. I think the shame is in when people are having to do this with their own parents, children and in-laws. To me, these shouldn't be superficial relationships.
Pooh, I agree completely. But I feel it is better to keep it superficial than to express opinions, ask questions, and be accused of butting in. And it's not like these contacts with DIL and DS are all the time. A couple of times a year, I can just keep my lip zipped and smile. Kind of like Miss America, but I'll refrain from giving that wave to the crowds.
Another image has come to mind. Wallpaper. When DS and DIL are around, I am wallpaper. Intentionally.
Bingo! My DIL had a home party that I attended in order to keep her happy and ordered some merchandise again to keep her happy, and found the stuff to be of really inferior quality. I happened to mention that fact to DS in passing and promptly had a panic attack thinking I would offend her. I never have had That problem before, always said what I felt no more!
Quote from: tryingmybest on January 13, 2012, 08:22:14 AM
Bingo! My DIL had a home party that I attended in order to keep her happy and ordered some merchandise again to keep her happy, and found the stuff to be of really inferior quality. I happened to mention that fact to DS in passing and promptly had a panic attack thinking I would offend her. I never have had That problem before, always said what I felt no more!
Join the Wallpaper Club! ;D ;D ;D
Well then there is your answer for yourself. Now you just have to figure out how to do it without letting it make you feel bad.
Shelby, LOL. I love it Wallpaper Club. I should change my name to Mrs. Wallflower. ::) ::) ;D
Quote from: Pooh on January 13, 2012, 10:46:35 AM
Well then there is your answer for yourself. Now you just have to figure out how to do it without letting it make you feel bad.
Pooh - Not sure if you're talking to me or to Trying. I don't feel BAD about being in the Wallpaper Club. I accept it. And it's only for a few days a year. Not all the time. I can do it a few days at Thanksgiving and Christmas. Just like I am accommodating to my parents and FIL. I would feel BAD --- VERY VERY BAD if I had to act like wallpaper all the time. I absolutely could not/would not do that. If DS and DIL lived with us (perish the thought) -- THEY would have to join the Wallpaper Club. I would not. ( I don't know how some of the ladies on here have survived having their adult children and in-laws live with them. I'd probably be up on charges of Murder One if I had a young married couple under my roof. And then you'd all have to raise money for my bail! ;) ) Nor would I take the AC and in-laws on an expensive vacation and act like Wallpaper. Vacations will be with just me, DH and friends with whom I can kick back and be myself.
On the other hand, if you were talking to Trying, you can ignore this post! ;D
Quote from: tryingmybest on January 13, 2012, 08:22:14 AM
Bingo! My DIL had a home party that I attended in order to keep her happy and ordered some merchandise again to keep her happy, and found the stuff to be of really inferior quality. I happened to mention that fact to DS in passing and promptly had a panic attack thinking I would offend her. I never have had That problem before, always said what I felt no more!
Trying - this is EXACTLY the kind of thing I mean. I can comment to a friend that the workmanship on the Brand X product isn't very high quality - and the comment is simply an observation. That same comment to a DIL - while intended by you as simply an observation is received by DIL or DS as a criticism. So it is probably not worth making any comment. So I hope you'll enjoy your membership in the Wallpaper Club - it is a fun group - the rest of us members are really quite nice and accepting! ;)
Quote from: tryingmybest on January 13, 2012, 08:22:14 AM
Bingo! My DIL had a home party that I attended in order to keep her happy and ordered some merchandise again to keep her happy, and found the stuff to be of really inferior quality. I happened to mention that fact to DS in passing and promptly had a panic attack thinking I would offend her. I never have had That problem before, always said what I felt no more!
Trying - this is EXACTLY the kind of thing I mean. I can comment to a friend that the workmanship on the Brand X product isn't very high quality - and the comment is simply an observation. That same comment to a DIL - while intended by you as simply an observation is received by DIL or DS as a criticism. [/quote]
If I bought something at a home party I don't think I would comment on the poor quality to the host (friend, family, or acquaintance), and I would probably be offended if someone did that to me. I would put that up there with telling someone their food is gross after they invited you over for dinner. Even if I think those things, I don't say them, and I don't feel muzzled, just polite. Not saying you were impolite, as I don't know the whole story or the context, but just suggesting that maybe this isn't a MIL/DIL thing and more of a problem of incompatible personalities - a common problem among ILs I know!
I disagree Phillek. I get the same reaction from my DIL, and I'm not being impolite, just making a personal observation. It can happen with everything and anything. Some examples - they are finishing their basement - DIL says her father is doing it this way, my husband says he was just at a course regarding mould and basements need to be finished in another way to prevent mould. We are told in no uncertain terms that DIL's father knows what he is doing, after all he did this 20 years ago! So we say fine, we're not saying he doesn't know what he is doing, just that there is new information out now that suggests doing it another way and it's their choice how they do the job. So DIL gets upset because we suggested another method than what her father does. Another example - I'm having a conversation with DIL's mother, she says she has stomach problems/ulcers because she internalizes everything and it upsets her. I say I understand what she is saying, but in my case I'm the opposite, if I'm upset about something I will usually say something, or mention that I'm upset about something. Well, it gets back to me from DIL that I'm not supposed to say that I'm different or that I handle something in a different way. I didn't criticize her Mom just mentioned that I'm different. So, now as Shelby says I've become wallpaper - I just hang there and don't have or am not allowed to have an opinion or make any sort of comment.
Chrisky,
Your right, when it's everything and anything, like you are describing, I understand it could get frustrating. I was just telling Shelby and Tryingmybest that in that particular situation with the home party, I could see how someone might get offended. Not that they are wrong, just that I can see the other side.
I personally wouldn't be offended by either of the scenarios you described. My MIL acts offended and defensive if I do or say anything regarding my DS that's different than the way she chose to parent. It's kind of a reverse of a stereotypical MIL/DIL conflict. She thinks I'm telling her she was a bad mother or ignorant if I mention anything I do with DS that happens to be different, and I mean Every. Little. Thing. If I cook DS's carrots the way he likes and not the way she did for DH 35 years ago, she storms off in a huff. So I just stay mute and try to ignore her. That's what your basement story reminded me of... and I do feel muzzled.
I mean't "You're right". Is there a way to go back and edit your own poor grammar? :o
Quote from: phillek on January 13, 2012, 05:10:15 PM
I mean't "You're right". Is there a way to go back and edit your own poor grammar? :o
I don't know, there must be but I haven't figured that out yet.
There used to be an edit option but is was grossly misused. People, not just one person, removed whole sections of what they had posted if and when a discussion followed and it was too confusing to try to follow.
I think we can get into personalities when we talk about who is willing to do "wallpaper" and who isn't...and maybe even why. I seems to me that some of us are more outspoken than others...it's just our nature. Some do the silent thing to be polite...some out of fear...others for reasons even they may not be aware of...attention? Each set of dynamics is different. Reactions vary. I, for one, react differently in different situations and may be outspoken at times and then at other times...mute. That can be more about me and how I feel at that moment than about what is transpiring. We may have to just agree to disagree on this one.
Phillek, I respectfully disagree, I wanted to make an observation because jI won't be attending any more home parties for that product, and if she plans to continue to give them she should know the product someone else made and is selling isn't the best. It is in no way
similar to criticizing something someone made for dinner. bTW a big part of my complaint is one item is still on back order, the party was October 28th, and the item was intended as a Christmas gift. I had a valid complaint, and just because she is a daughter in law doesn't mean she doesn't have to hear it.
Ladies...we have pretty much covered this one. Lets move on. Sending love...