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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: Lillycache on April 08, 2013, 07:42:40 AM

Title: I just can't...
Post by: Lillycache on April 08, 2013, 07:42:40 AM
Hello everyone!   Just stopped by to run this past all of you wise women.  If you remember, my DIL and I had a HUGE falling out 3 years ago.  I was not allowed to see my Grandchildren for almost a year.  I was not invited to the GS3's first birthday, my GS1's first Communion, holidays and other occasions.  My son finally got her permission to bring the kids around to see me and I have been seeing them about 3 or 4 times a year now.  I've been fine with that..  I've enjoyed seeing them when I could, and haven't really been missing the interaction between myself and my DIL... which was quite odd toward the end.

Anyway... Saturday, in the mail, was an invitation to my Granddaughters first Communion.  There was one for myself and dh.. and a separate on for my older son.  I am quite confused by this.   Why now?  Why bother?  I have had no contact with DIL in 3 years.  I have just about made up my mind that I am not attending.  Why would I want to put myself in the position of being uncomfortable knowing my every move,  my every facial expression, my every word was being mentally recorded and critiqued by my DIL and her Mother and her Aunt?  And knowing more than likely it would be plastered all over her favorite discussion groups for review and ridicule.  I just don't care that much anymore about being included in her extended family and have been quite satisfied with how things are now.   I guess I just wanted your input..  Am I being callous.. or mean... or anything that I shouldn't be?
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: luise.volta on April 08, 2013, 08:02:19 AM
Good to see you, LC - I think you may get very diverse suggestions to this one. Mine would be to go with your gut. Quote:" I just don't care that much anymore about being included in her extended family and have been quite satisfied with how things are now." Not going isn't about a lack of forgiveness from my perspective, it's about your hard-earned self respect and peace.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Pooh on April 08, 2013, 08:12:33 AM
Ooooh tough situation.  On one hand, I agree, go with your gut.  On the other, I'm thinking what if DS was the instigator and wants you there since he's been bringing the kids to see you and it's about GD and not really DIL's family?

I'm no help.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Lillycache on April 08, 2013, 08:22:10 AM
Quote from: Pooh on April 08, 2013, 08:12:33 AM
Ooooh tough situation.  On one hand, I agree, go with your gut.  On the other, I'm thinking what if DS was the instigator and wants you there since he's been bringing the kids to see you and it's about GD and not really DIL's family?

I'm no help.

Yes, it occured to me that it was DS's doing.  I don't reconize the printing on the envelope, but I don't know his handwriting either..  There has been no conversation between him and I regarding the  event..  It would have been nice if he had discussed it with me prior to just sending the invitation.  Am I being set up by him?  Is he wanting to see what I will do, and hold it against me? Am I being set up by her?  The RSVP is to DIL's email.   I am not that concerned with GD being upset if I don't attend.  She is pretty used to me not being included in things.  I don't think she will be hurt.. or even give it a whole lot of thought.     And to be perfectly honest.. I'm more concerned with protecting myself at this point.   I just DON'T trust her. 
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Pooh on April 08, 2013, 08:34:58 AM
Then there is your answer :)
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Lillycache on April 08, 2013, 08:40:23 AM
But I feel guilty.. for some reason..  Like if my son feels he has had a break trhough of sorts with this.  I know he tried for a long time to be mediator..  it didn't work.  I'm going to have to talk to him about it.  Carefully.  I don't want to suddenly be the bad guy here.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: luise.volta on April 08, 2013, 08:54:34 AM
I didn't think of that. Just thought it was from DIL. It is probably time to talk with your son about it. Assumptions and guesses can lead to a lot of misunderstanding. If it feels right, let him know how you feel, what it took to get there and the reason you are choosing not to take a step backward into poor self-esteem.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Lillycache on April 08, 2013, 10:02:53 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on April 08, 2013, 08:54:34 AM
I didn't think of that. Just thought it was from DIL. It is probably time to talk with your son about it. Assumptions and guesses can lead to a lot of misunderstanding. If it feel right, let him know how you feel, what it took to get there and the reason you are choosing not to go.

You certainly are correct.  It was a long arduous road to get to the level of peace and contentment I feel now.  I no longer dwell on the subject, nor do I harbor destructful anger.  I just feel happy.   I don't want to EVER go back to the place I once was.  I'm afraid that my hard won peace is fragile and I am not ready to risk losing it and being dragged back down through the mud.  Nothing is worth that to me.  Not my GKs... not my Son... I have just come to far to risk losing ME to that drama again.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: luise.volta on April 08, 2013, 10:06:02 AM
Good for you!  :D
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Scoop on April 08, 2013, 10:12:40 AM
I think you should go.  Go and be yourself.  Be nice to the people you know and like, and be civil to the rest.  Treat them like co-workers from a place you worked 3 years ago, that you hated.  Sure, you hated it and it was awful, but you're not there anymore and if they want to maintain old grudges, oh well, it's their energy.

Pick a nice gift for DGD and congratulate her and tell her how proud you are.

Seriously, what's the worst that can happen?  DIL will hate you ... more?  You already know that she hates you, so what?  As long as you don't cause a scene, she, her M and her A can nit-pick all they want, and really, they will anyway.  Luise says that it's none of our business what other people think of us and that is TRUE.  You didn't make them think the worst of you, you can't make them think the best of you.

The *real* worst that can happen is that your DS and DGD are hurt, because you rejected what DS might consider as an olive branch.  I don't know, I couldn't risk it.

And if you go, please wear a bracelet in honour of WWU, so that you know that we're with you, cheering you on.

Good luck.  Let us know.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: freespirit on April 08, 2013, 11:08:15 AM
I'm with Scoop on this one. I say..."knock 'em dead". Turn on all your charm, laugh,  have a ball, and if the aunt and the rest of the gang are observing you from the distance, what sweeter a revenge than showing you are having the greatest time. I also think your GD will notice you being there and she will appreciate it. She may even spend most of the time with you.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Keys Girl on April 08, 2013, 03:19:14 PM
LC, I wouldn't go.  If there's no verbal communication and something just pops in via the mail???? What if the mail was lost?   If your son can't speak to you about an invitation, I wouldn't be in any hurry to attend anything, especially if you don't trust DIL. 

It crossed my mind that your DIL might just want to rock the boat now that there is a pattern of you and your son and GS getting together in an amicable way.   

I think the worst that can happen is that the emotional scars are ripped open again, and you are back on the hostility treadmill.

Love many, trust few (forget who said it, but it's helpful),

Good luck,
KG
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: confusedbyinlaws on April 08, 2013, 05:32:08 PM
It sounds like you are on speaking terms with your son.  Why not tell him you are confused and ask him why now?  I can see why you are confused.   I definately wouldn't go without having more information.  You don't know if your DIL wants you there or what her motives are for inviting you or allowing your son to invite you.  Maybe things have cooled down for your DIL and she is willing to put your differences aside for her husband and children, but you don't know that and you don't trust her.  Perhaps it's just that your son and grandkids want you there and they are winning the battle.  It does sound like your son wants you in their lives at least.
It doesn't sound like you want to go or that you want to have more interaction with your DIL and her family.  If it's working that you can see your son and grandkids without your DIL present, why change that?  You don't miss her and perhaps she doesn't miss you.  If i were in your shoes I would probably talk to my son about it.    But like others have said "go with your gut"
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: confusedbyinlaws on April 08, 2013, 05:50:58 PM
I agree with what Scoop and freespirit say about going and having a good time and not allowing DIL or anyone else's opinion about you or their behavior affect you.  That being said, we aren't all in a place where we can do that especially in relationships that have a bad history or with someone who pushes your buttons.  I have been given the same advice about being with my MIL, that I should go and hold my head high and not allow her scrutiny and criticism affect me.   I understand that it's easier said than done.  I hope to get to a place where I can do that, but I am not there.  The way I feel at this point when asked if I want to visit them is "hell no"  but then I feel guilty and think I'm being "callous or mean"  It sounds like you are feeling the same way?
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Stilllearning on April 08, 2013, 06:07:41 PM
Who says you have to choose?  It is a religious ceremony and you can arrive at the last minute, make sure your DS and GC know you are there and skip out before anything untoward happens.  Win, win. 
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Beth 2011 on April 08, 2013, 06:11:40 PM
Lilly,

Looks like you have answered your question many times over.  I know we are always thinking well, maybe it will be different this time.  I did this to myself many, many times before I accepted that nothing would change.  Maybe it will change for you if you go.  I hope it does.  Wishing you continued peace. 
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Lillycache on April 09, 2013, 04:43:05 AM
Quote from: Beth 2011 on April 08, 2013, 06:11:40 PM
Lilly,

Looks like you have answered your question many times over.  I know we are always thinking well, maybe it will be different this time.  I did this to myself many, many times before I accepted that nothing would change.  Maybe it will change for you if you go.  I hope it does.  Wishing you continued peace.

Nothing will change... because, as I found out after 12 years... it NEVER was different.  I love my son.. and I loved my DIL.. I respected her as the great mother she is.. and that she loved my son and was a good wife to him.   I THOUGHT everything was fine between us.. Until the last year or so before the BLOW OUT  in 2010.   (details of which is too long to go into, but that's not the point)  At that time I learned that she hated me.. she had always hated me.. her Mother and family hate me and accused me of things that I cannot even remember.  I know I'm getting up there in age.. I'm in my early 60's,  but so far, my short and long term memory are intact.   I was accused of being mentally Ill..  unstable... and that she considered my Ex Husband's wife to be their real Grandmother.  I was accused of "going off" on her Mother at my  1st GS's Christening.... a incident no one else seemed to  have wittnessed, except for her mother..   Her pent up hatred and accusations along with the laundry list of all my shortcomings and sins went on for hours.   It litterally knocked me to the floor....  Then the 1 year cut off before DS finally could bring the kids to see me. 

I don't KNOW what her motives are for inviting me.   Perhaps as someone said.... things have been too calm and uneventful.  DS brings the kids by for a day every 3 months give or take...  I fix a nice dinner... I ususally have some sort of present for the kids, we visit, or watch movies... they leave..  No drama.. no trauma..    Perhaps she is looking for more fodder to complain to everyone about.  She cannot very well keep me the villian if she is not there to find things to villify me about..  SO.. I just feel like I am being led to the arena for evaluation.. and we all know how that evaluation will go.     I can't help feeling I am being invited to provide the entertainment..   

With no word from my son.. I don't even know if he knows she invited me..   I would think he would discuss it with me given the situation..  It's been 3 years since I was invited to ANYTHING..  I'm just FINE with that.   She hurt me so intensely that it took a long time to get my bearings and revive my self-esteem..   I just cannot risk it happening again.    I could just go to the Church and then leave..... but what would the sense of that be unless I knew that I could get the attention of my GD.. so she knows I was there.   My gut and inclination tells me to skip the entire thing, give GD a special gift the next time I see her.. and explain it to my son if he brings it up.    If he is angry with me (which I doubt he will be... 1st communions are not in his religion)  if he IS angry... then so be it.  I'm OK with that too..  I have to live with ME... not him. 



Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Lillycache on April 09, 2013, 05:13:46 AM
Then again.... there is the distinct possibility that she invited me knowing full well I wouldn't come.. giving her more ammo to convince DS that I am a cold uncaring unloving horrible mother and grandmother... unworthy of his love or visits..   I know it irritated her to no end that she was unable to get my son to "cut me off"  too..  and from what she said to me... she really tried to get him to "see the light"..  To her obvious annoyment..  even when I wasn't allowed to see his children.. HE still met me for dinner at restaurants and came over and called me. 

Just thinking out loud here... please bear with me..   :(
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: freespirit on April 09, 2013, 05:39:01 AM
Oh dear Lilly,...I can "feel" your confusion. May I ask why you haven't spoken to your son about this? Maybe you should reach your decision after listening to what he says.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Stilllearning on April 09, 2013, 06:08:10 AM
I cannot help but wonder if your GC is the one who wants you to attend.  If that is the case you would be going for her if you decide to go.  She has been visiting you for the last two years every three months or so and this could be an indication of how important you are in HER life.  What a pickle!!  Whatever you decide you certainly have my full support!! 
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Lillycache on April 09, 2013, 06:57:44 AM
I'm going to have to call my son to discuss it..  that's all there is to it.  I usually don't initiate a phone call as I never know when he is able to talk..  I have found that if I call... he generally doesn't feel like talking and the conversation is usually "one word answers" on his part.  If HE calls.. it means he feels like talking and will chit chat an arm and leg off me.   ALSO... We have not mentioned or discussed the "blow up" in the last 2 years..  We do not even bring up the topic or his wife.   It makes him very nervous and uncomfortable so I have found it's better to let sleeping dogs lie.   This time.. I think I have to find out what's going on.  I cannot tell you how much I wish I was not sent that invitation.  It's simply not a happy thing for me.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: herbalescapes on April 09, 2013, 07:00:36 AM
Lilly,

You've pretty much answered your own question several times over.  It's an invitation.  Either accept or decline.  You're tying yourself up in knots trying to read an ulterior motive behind it.  You could be right on target (DIL is trying to set you up for failure, can't wait to mock you at the FC and afterwards, can't wait to point out how horrible you are for staying away, etc.) or you could be way off base.  If you decline, I strongly advise not giving DS chapter and verse about your misgivings and fears.  Just say you can't attend.  Have a prior commitment (even a post prior commitment) and express your regret at not being able to attend.  Or you could just attend the ceremony and if there's a party or luncheon before/after, have the commitment in conflict with that. 

I'm not at all surprised DS hasn't mentioned the invitation.  Why would he?  Either he doesn't know about it or he assumes it's self-explanatory.  Don't read anything into his not mentioning it.  Sure, things do get lost in the mail, but most people don't jump to that conclusion.  Mail delivery is actually quite reliable so if you don't say anything, he'll assume (if he knows you were invited) you're ignoring it.  Why would he want to bring up something unpleasant? 

good luck. 
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Lillycache on April 09, 2013, 07:20:50 AM
OMG..... Herbal.. you are so right..  OVERTHINKING??   ME???   lol!!!   Of course I am.. and it's all not necessary..  I don't want to go..  I don't want to get into a big discussion with my son over it either.   A previous engagement is simple..and non-inflamatory.   The invitation arrived only 2 weeks before the event... so a previous engagement would not be unreasonalble..  Thank you... I'm feeling relieved.  I am "unknotting" as we speak!     
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Elise on April 09, 2013, 09:15:02 AM
Lily - Following this thread it appears you realize you do not want to go to the FC.  That is your right, even without the past history with dil et al. Somewhere in this site I learned that it is ok for me to decide for myself and not be obligated to explain to anyone when what I want  to do is different than what someone else wants me to do.  It is not done to hurt anyone, it is done to take best care of myself. 

If you do want to ask ds about this invitation and need to call him, you could ask him to call you when it is convenient for him so as to avoid the one word answers your calls normally get. It is that way with my ds as well.  Asking him about  the invitation when he calls you back ( not on your call to him) may give you some information you do not have about 'why now?' which may be helpful going ahead.  I like the idea of having a prior engagement so as to avoid any other need to explain which might put him into conflict of any kind or yourself in the position of having to justify your decision.

I recently used this approach with ds and didn't use a prior engagement at all, simply told him it wasn't what I wanted to do. He told me I needed to explain to him why and I told him I didn't need to do that and pointed out he is not obligated to tell me why he decides what he decides, and I am not either. It resulted in him coming home for the first time in almost 2 years with dil and new gd for 3 days instead of me traveling 300 miles to spend time with dil family and be uncomfortable on their 12 days visit there. I thought it might result in me not seeing them and had decided if that were the case it was their right to decided that as well. Putting myself in the front of my life again has brought peace I will not give up, regardless.

I think the wedding tradition of parents giving away the bride should in many cases be altered to parents of the groom giving away their son instead, as for a lot of us that is what really is going on - not all, but certainly a lot.

Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Lillycache on April 09, 2013, 10:11:17 AM
Yes Elise... I agree with you...it IS for me to decide and I really don't owe anyone an explanation...  I DO realize something about myself.  I always second guess MY gut or my feelings about something..  It's almost like I do not trust myself to know what is best for me or what is the right reaction or the right way to feel about something.  Then I mull it over, and ask people for their opinions and go over and over things looking at it from every angle imaginable.    I tend to think it goes back to being raised by an abusive father.  I never knew what normal reactions or feelings were supposed to be  so I am never quite comfortable with my own.    It's like I KNOW what I want to do or how I feel, but I never know if I SHOULD be doing that or feeling that way.   

Like in this instance.. What would and should a GOOD grandmother do?... then what should  *I* do.... I mean if I were a GOOD grandmother..  I know it's all nonsense.   I AM a good grandmother.  I'm as good a grandma as I have been allowed to be under these circumstances.  I have been marginalized and maligned....  NOW.. because someone decides they have found it in their heart to include me I should be jumping for joy and bestowing my heartfelt gratitude, by showing up with bells on?     I don't feel that way now.    I love my granddaughter.. and showing up where I am uncomfortable is not PROOF that I love her.  I don't have to prove that..  Not putting myself in an uncomfortable situation IS however proof that I love me. 

Thank you all for your input and advise..  It's so nice to be able to "put it out there" in a safe place with no judgments..

 



 
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: luise.volta on April 09, 2013, 11:40:51 AM
LC -  No need to "Should on yourself." Just be your authentic self...that's what I see surfacing here. Good for you!
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Pooh on April 09, 2013, 12:03:51 PM
Sometimes we just need to get it off of our chest just so we can breathe.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: tryingmybest on April 11, 2013, 02:52:08 PM
You know, I'm going to pop in here for what it's worth. I just got devastating news about a friend of mine. She had a grandchild less then 6 months ago, life was going beautifully and three weeks ago was diagnosed with an inoperable extremely aggressive soft tissue cancer. She's got weeks to live. I'm just sitting here realizing it all changes in an instant. I would go, if for nothing else just to look into your grandchilds eyes, hug her and tell her how much she means to you. The rest of them are life static.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: fangle on April 13, 2013, 07:47:54 PM
My take - You need to take care of yourself and your feelings before others.  If you feel uncomfortable attending an event because of factors that are real and beyond your control, maybe you shouldn't go.  Lines of communication are still available with your son, see how it goes, if you are unhappy with the response, maybe you shouldn't go.  Whatever you do, don't regret your decision.  You are a person with feelings and yours are as important as anybody elses, so be kind to yourself. xo
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Lillycache on April 18, 2013, 05:47:09 AM
DS called last night...( perhaps at his wife's insistance  as I could hear her in the background)  to see if I would be attending the Communion this Saturday.   I told him no... and my reasons.   He said he completely understood and was not at all upset.  He will be bringing the kids over for a visit the following weekend..  I will make a   I think he is relieved also to not have to worry  about what was or wasn't going to happen with her and her family.   He realizes as I do, that it is best this way, and while it would have been nice for the kid to have his and her family together for events concerning mutual grandchildren... they have chosen to make it impossible.   
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: luise.volta on April 18, 2013, 12:36:52 PM
He's a winner, LC and so are you!  :) Sending love...
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Lillycache on April 19, 2013, 05:06:12 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on April 18, 2013, 12:36:52 PM
He's a winner, LC and so are you!  :) Sending love...


Thanks Louise..     BUT.. I raised that boy and I know him..  I love him to pieces.. believe me.   However, I am not naive enough to think he is not saying one thing to me... and quite another thing to his wife.    It would not surprise me in the least to learn that minutes after telling me he completely understands... he got off the phone and slammed me to her.   It keeps us both happy right?  AND it makes his life easier.    I'd be willing to bet that most husbands caught in the middle of a female battle are double agents trying to keep the peace on both sides.    That's why when I hear some say "My DH is in complete agreement with me and thinks is mother is______________(fill in the blank)..     I just laugh and think to myself..  "Yeah right!  He's got you pretty bamboozled too. huh.. wonder what he's saying to his mother about YOU"   lol!
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Lillycache on April 19, 2013, 06:18:05 AM
At anyrate... I am grateful for my son, regardless.. and I am grateful he keeps bringing the kids to see me.. and that's all that matters.. I do not want to get myself reinvested in the drama.   Thanks to all... It would be ok to close this thread now.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: luise.volta on April 19, 2013, 07:16:38 AM
A wiining Double Agent?  ;)
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Evalyn on April 21, 2013, 07:24:12 PM
Lillycache,
Best wishes to you and your DS and your GC. My view is that you did what felt comfortable for you. So it was the right decision. I hope you have a wonderful time when your DS visits with the GC. They are lucky to have such a kind considerate Grandmother.
Evalyn.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Lillycache on April 22, 2013, 06:18:06 AM
Quote from: Evalyn on April 21, 2013, 07:24:12 PM
Lillycache,
Best wishes to you and your DS and your GC. My view is that you did what felt comfortable for you. So it was the right decision. I hope you have a wonderful time when your DS visits with the GC. They are lucky to have such a kind considerate Grandmother.
Evalyn.

Thanks, but the decision was not without it's pain.  Yesterday my DS posted some pics of the Communion on FB.  GD looked so cute.   I felt cheated that the situation is such that I cannot feel comfortable attending these family events.  I feel even more angry ad DIL and her FOO for making it this way.  It's really a no win situation.   I wish she had not even sent me the invitation leaving the decision up to me.  Even so.. I believe I made the right one. I could not have endured being around them.   Still.. I feel meloncholy about it.   
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Pooh on April 22, 2013, 06:45:19 AM
I think you made the right decision.  I know that if I don't want to do something, I can be civil but I know I have no poker face and everyone would feel the tension no matter how hard I tried. 
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: freespirit on April 22, 2013, 12:24:42 PM
Maybe it wasn't the right time or place to reconcile. It might make you feel better if you simply never say never. ... Even if you have closed a door...you can leave a window open, just a wee bit. Nothing has to be final.
Title: Re: I just can't...
Post by: Evalyn on April 23, 2013, 02:18:04 AM
I understand the feeling of being deprived of the joy of your GD's first communion. The good thing is, you have a lovely photo to put in a frame.

You would probably have felt uncomfortable if you had gone. Your GD might have felt the tension between you and DIL. Or the tension from DIL's family.

Please don't waste a moment on regrets. Your decision was very carefully thought out. For you it felt right. Therefore, you won't have to worry about DIL or her family talking about you and opening old wounds.

Why not put it behind you and enjoy your DS and GC when they visit?.