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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: lancaster lady on March 25, 2012, 03:26:19 AM

Title: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 25, 2012, 03:26:19 AM
Hello Everyone ......

After reading a few members feelings re grandchildren , sons , daughters ......I really feel hard done by too , but then maybe its
my , health , hormones etc ...you all know I need to vent sometimes !
After my DS and his family moved out last November I thought perhaps we were on a new footing and could go on from there
with a new understanding of family values .....wrong !
I had to persuade them to come to my house for a family gathering on 26th December , as I know that now they live within walking distance of my DIL FOO they would of course spend Christmas Day together .
So since that day they have been here once to collect belongings they left behind , they live one hour away.
That is two visits in 5 months , go back a year and history is repeating itself .
My GD turned 2 in February , so we went to their house by invitation from my DS to celebrate ......they were out when we
arrived ...at her FOO . After phoning mobiles , they arrived .Visit went well and we left after a couple of hours , it being a work
day and we were tired , also having to work the following day .
So three weeks later , I had a hospital appointment near their house , well 20 miles away , my DS said come over , great .
He would be working , but my DIL would be home , and he would be there too shortly after .
We duly arrived ....she was out !
The same thing happened the following appointment two weeks later ....she was out !
Mother's Day was two weeks ago , I didn't even ask what they would be doing , lunching with her FOO , it turns out .
I asked my DS on two occasions what their plans would be for a Sunday lunch meet , they were meeting up
with friends of my DIL .
So yesterday my DH said he would love to see his granddaughter , I was surprised as he never usually initiates a visit,
but he said he missed her . I text my DS with a request , surprise , surprise , they are visiting her friends , not 10 miles
from here !

Now is it me ? Am I expecting too much to be included just once in a planned visit to see us ?
Also is my DIL trying to tell me something by being out each time we arranged a visit to their home ?
I never expected to be rewarded for rescuing them in their hour of need , but a little consideration
to let me see my GD would be appreciated .
I suppose by that statement I did expect something , but I thought it would bring us closer as a family and
help heal the ever expanding rift that we had .

So ladies , do I back off , and die off ? Last time I did that I was literally forgotten .
I love my GD dearly and really miss seeing her after living together for 6 months .
I don't want to be a whiny GM , so hard not to be , so far I haven't made any suggestions of me being
avoided , which is how it feels .
I also know I should be grateful for what little time I am allotted , as some GM's out there don't ever
get to see their GC.
So yes I'm with Pen , fed up of being excluded , and a little used in my case .

It's great to be able to vent without being judged , thanks for listening ...... :)
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Liz on March 25, 2012, 05:23:36 AM
I am new to this board but found everyone's comments about my situation very helpful.  I am certainly not an expert in in-law relationships as evidenced by my own situation.  I do know the daughter in-law FOO is a huge force to compete with.  No matter how much you try...  That is just the way it is.  And I am speaking as a DIL whose FOO was very involved with my own family.  It wasn't due to choice... It was due to my dh's FOO not being interested.  So...  Some things I might try....  Write a short, heartfelt note about how much you miss them and would like to see them more often.  Have a heart-to-heart with your son.  Reinforce your relationship with your granddaughter...send her trinkets, stickers, etc in the mail.  I don't know your situation, but there is a delicate balance between showing you care and are willing to work at a relationship and smothering them and looking needy.  And that is only my opinion...  Speaking as a DIL.  Over involvement might drive me as crazy as under involvement.

At the end of the day, you need to feel like you did everything possible.  Good luck.  After reading many of these posts I wish I could adopt some of you wonderful grandparents.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 25, 2012, 08:29:47 AM
thanks Liz for your response ,
That is the problem , that fine line of intruding and caring !
If anyone ever finds the solution ....PLEASE let me know !
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: artlady on March 25, 2012, 08:52:32 AM
I understand right where you are I'm in your shoes. WE just had a new grandson , daughter's first and she is my only child ( have two stepsons). We have not really felt as we have bonded with baby due to the fact he is fussy, gassy and is nursing 24/7. The biggest problem is her DH who is a control freak, hasn't been nice to us since the wedding 2 years ago , is working hard at isolating her from us and was so rude to us at the hospital ( he didn't want us there , she called me ). WE have been so very close as her daddy died when she was 2 i remarried a great man when she was 12, so she would have a daddy , as mine died when i was 7 so I knew the feeling . She doesn't call us in front of him and now that she is not working her cell phone times are free when he is home . I feel so disconnected, such a pain in my heart, not talked to her about too much of it , but I"m sure she sees how he acts but what can she do. Everyone that knows her says it looks like body snatchers have taken my dear daughter who is so close to her mom. Her DH 's mom died 11 years ago , he has never been close to his dad or his brother, nor the rest of his family. so being the 3 of them suits him I'm sure . so i gave you a brief one and I'm right now just lost at what to do , but we decided when we got home from hospital to see a counselor, never used one before but we were both so devastated , couldn't eat or sleep , broken hearted as we had no time with daughter or baby due to him at the hospital which is 100 miles from us. I do hope you can find answers and if you do please share with me . We are still going to counselling hoping that we can get to a better place and not feel so hurt but I know it will take  time but in the mean time I'm like you do I have a heart to heart with daughter , leave it alone , back off or out. What to do , don't want to lose daughter or gs over it . take care and between all the folks on here that care and have walked in these shoes ( hey they ought to be worn out and holey by now  LOL) we will get better . Thinking of you
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 25, 2012, 09:08:14 AM
Hi AL ,

My story is a bit longer than yours as my GD is now 2 years old .
However when she was born I felt exactly the same as you are now .
After not letting me be part of my GD's life for the first year , my FDIL announced she was
practising attachment parenting , which is parenting on a one to one basis .
If she had decided on this before my GD was born ,and shared it with the family , it would have saved
a lot of heartache .
A lot of things have happened since then and too long to go into , it's all in my post history .
Will we ever get it right , well I think that depends on the personalities we are dealing with , like your SIL
for instance .
MY own sister sees her GD on a regular basis , it's her DS's daughter and first GD .
The difference is her DIL is '' normal '' and wants her DD to have a close family bonding .
Go figure ..... ::)
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Pen on March 25, 2012, 11:32:50 AM
(((LL))) hugs to you. I wonder when I'll stop being baffled by these stories? Families w/o these issues intrigue me. What's their secret? After much pondering I've decided it's just the luck of the draw in some cases.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: pam1 on March 25, 2012, 01:54:14 PM
I don't think it is you, LL.  Some things I picked up on seem to be your DS miscommunicating.  I wonder why he feels comfortable planning DILs time for her.  He put both of you in an awkward spot by inviting you to his home when he wasn't there.  I think that one is square on him.

Two times in 5 months doesn't seem so bad to me but I understand your desire to see your grandchild more.  How far in advance are you asking to meet up?  I know that a lot of times people in DHs FOO ask us with only a few days notice (or more likely the day before lol) and we usually are already booked for that weekend. 

When I looked at our calendar right now we are booked 3 weeks out at the moment.  I don't think we are all that unusual so maybe it's a timing issue?  Just a thought but no, I don't think it's you.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 25, 2012, 02:24:25 PM
Well Pam ,

I realise that they have lives to lead of course , however I would like to be slotted in now and
again on their calendar . I want them to actually want to visit without any prompting .
Also they live only an hour away , not that far by US standards .
Re the visits my Ds arranged , my DIL knew we were coming each time and chose to be out .
After living with me for 6 months , I don't think she would feel awkward without my DS there .
Also my GD's birthday , they were out when we arrived at the arranged time .
Seeing my GD less often, makes me so sad , I can't explain it , and knowing that the other GM sees her every
day doesn't help .
They have no idea how I feel , I never allow my real feelings to show .
It's like being promised a lovely outing only for it to be cancelled time and time again ......it's all so similar
to what happened when my GD was born , only this time my DIL lives side by side with her FOO which makes
things worse .
Of course , at the moment there are no threatening bills or wedding to pay for .
Makes me feel thoroughly used and abused .
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: pam1 on March 25, 2012, 02:41:10 PM
LL, big hugs.

Now did your DIL agree to the visit your son set up?  I am reading it as if he told you it was ok without checking with her first, then informed her this was what was going to happen.  And she's not going along with the plans he made.  Is that correct? 

If so, I think they are having trouble communicating and it's not you.  To be honest, I would be upset if my husband planned my time and informed me after he did it.  I don't think she's handling it in the best way but I also don't understand why your son keeps doing it.

Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 25, 2012, 02:50:42 PM
thanks for the HUGS ...

I have no idea if she agrees to our visits , but you may be right .
I will perhaps contact my DIL and ask when can we visit ? would that sound pushy ?
Can you see how paranoid it makes us GP's ?
We do not want to rock the proverbial boat !
My DS is as usual trying to please me I suppose , but I haven't a clue why he wouldn't ask his DW first ,
unless she wouldn't want us there ......for goodness sake , round in circles .....lol.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: pam1 on March 25, 2012, 03:01:07 PM
LL, you are the last person I would ever consider pushy!  My stepmother emails both DH and I with an invite, would that work for you to do?  We both get it and see it and are able to talk about it and then get back to her when we decide if we can or can't.  She does this with all of the kids that are married or with a significant other and she's not had a problem with it. 
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Ruth on March 25, 2012, 03:08:36 PM
You are such a kind kind caring person, LL, and you are among the few and the brave who would have done what  you chose to do.  It is gross thoughtlessness, plain and simple.  We all have our own methods for achieving our ends, but I think if I were in this position as far as my g/c are concerned, your husband was right on target.  I would just chunk trying to placate and make family time with these childish parents, and I would focus on SCHEDULING visits with my g/c, all very covertly of course, but how about a regular play day that is just yours and dh?  This is what I did a long time ago with my g/sons.  with my older g/s, I began taking him to church with us when he was 3 yrs old, and my dh and I did this until he was about 7 or 8, and he later served as acolyte and has now moved on of course, and dd takes them to her own church which is fine.  But it really built a special relationship with my g/ss.  Later since they had a flex school schedule, I got one day a week and took them out for outings, the infamous one recorded in one of my other posts.  Well today my heart bleeds for you and for my own selfish self also, because I'm depressed today and its been a toughie.  We soldier on, beloved.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 26, 2012, 01:14:53 AM
Thankyou Ruth for those kind words . Our problem is we all work . I work 6 days and only have Sunday free , plus that is their own family day too. Also we have never been allowed more than an hour alone with our GD .  However I love your idea and will try and work toward some kind of alternative solution .  Perhaps my DIL went out was to make a point to my DS at our expense ! However manners don't seem to matter much these days , she still never thanked me for giving them a home ........another point , when signing a mothers day card , would you just put your own name on or your partner / child ...  for GM ?   On no don't go there LL .
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Pen on March 26, 2012, 07:07:00 AM
LL, we seem to have been blessed with a certain sort of DIL. When they need something from us they manage to tolerate us, but when that need has been fulfilled we go back to our previous status. Our ever-hopeful DSs try to pretend things are 'normal' again and again by inviting us to come by or meet up. Our DILs will let us know how they feel about it one way or the other (leaving the scene, being outright rude, walking ahead of us, sneering, making snide comments.) Since our DS's don't treat their ILs that way, we can be proud of our good parenting skills, lol.

I can picture what an easy, friendly, fun relationship w/DS & DIL would look like without all the eggshell-walking and hurt feelings. I'm as hopeful as DS in that regard, apparently, since I fall for his invitations time and again, just recently in fact - a big, expensive, time-consuming, hurtful mistake (the old saw about insanity & repetition comes to mind...)

If only I had a magic wand for all of us!
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: foofoo on March 26, 2012, 11:47:43 AM
Lancaster Lady,

I don't know all the details of your interactions with your dil, but I noticed a pattern with your post.  You always go through your son, but the dil is expected to handle the plans.  I presume from this that you and dil have no obvious animosity, cause otherwise I would assume that you would go through your son from start to finish.  From a dil's perspective, I would find this a bit presumptuous that the dil is expected to handle the plans, to be entertain you when you are there, to be there when you arrive, etc, but she isn't even consulted during the making of the plans.  My guess is that this is more of a marital issue between your ds and dil, but you might want to consider checking with her directly as well.  My speculation is she is feeling a bit put out by being told what to do and mildly disrespected, not necessarily by you, but by her dh.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 26, 2012, 01:40:12 PM
thankyou Foofoo,

I am certainly seeing another perspective on all this , however it is my DS that invites me .
I can't exactly check with my DIL if it's ok to come , but I see what you're saying and knowing
my DS , he probably tells his DW last minute .
There has been a lot of animosity in the past with my DIL and to understand it all you would have to
go back to my original post and read for like forever !
I like to feel that is in the past and we can move on , but now and again there are glitches like any
relationship .
I did however today email my DIL and ask for a day to visit ....as we missed my GD sooo much .
Hopefully it won't be too long to wait , but I hope to get it right one of these days .

It's hard for a MIL to know what is right and what works , and what not to do .
We do try ...and we are very trying ! 
We know that and try not to be ....lol
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Pooh on March 27, 2012, 09:16:57 AM
LL, sending you huge cyber hugs!

I understand.  My DIL would never initiate a visit, invite or plan anything with us.  Which is why I haven't seen them but once in 3 years.  If my DS invited us over and said he would be there soon, then I would go.  I would assume he had discussed this with my DIL beforehand.  That's his problem, not mine.  And no, sorry, but I wouldn't call my DIL and make sure it was ok with her, that's between them.  And if she purposefully left (which she would), then again, then DS's problem, not mine.  I'm not being mean and I wouldn't plan DIL's time, and haven't, but I also don't think it's an MIL's place to check everything with the DIL if an invite or plans are made with DS.  A DIL shouldn't misplace her frustration at the MIL because her DH did it, just as MIL shouldn't misplace her frustration with the DIL because her DS did it.  Both need to take it up with DS.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: pam1 on March 27, 2012, 10:20:00 AM
Exactly, Pooh.  It's the DS.

LL, any replies to your email? 
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 27, 2012, 02:21:37 PM
WooHoo....

My DIL said that would be fine , and they would come to me , just getting a date organised .
So ladies , next time I will go to the organ grinder , not the monkey ..........lol

On the other hand it would be nice to be asked without my prompting , I feel if I don't , months will go by
and I won't see my GD , so I feel I have no alternative .
They can always say they are busy or refuse if I am getting too much , I guess .
Not thinking of the negatives here though , just pleased a meeting will be arranged .

When I was a young girl , we didn't have to pre arrange any meetings with GP, they were always
glad to see us and vice versa . How times have changed .
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: artlady on March 27, 2012, 03:11:51 PM
so glad to hear some postive news . It helps us all and I hope that I might follow suit with my gs and I totally agree about how it use to be with grandparents and the new times are certainly hard to understand. I think i'll wait for invites from dd as she knows how things are at home better than i do with sil. The baby is 8 weeks so we will see. enjoy it .
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: NewMama on March 27, 2012, 03:43:45 PM
Glad to hear your getting a visit with your GD! It does seem nowadays everyone is so hyper-scheduled weeks in advance. Sounds exhausting to me :) Although it would be nice if they initiated a visit, I think it's better if you make the requests yourself. You may be a waiting a long time to see your GD if  you wait for them to come around, and it's more important that you get to spend time with her than how a visit came about.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Ruth on March 27, 2012, 04:15:30 PM
Oh, LL, we have beaten that dead horse to death!  another cliche?  "If mohamet won't go to the mountain"....you know the rest.  Grandmas are a new deal these days.  But enjoy your little one and expect better things ahead. 
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Pen on March 27, 2012, 07:10:12 PM
I love the organ grinder/monkey reference :)
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: pam1 on March 27, 2012, 07:43:59 PM
LL, that's the best news I've heard all day!

Maybe not this visit but the next one you can casually throw in there that you're available usually on Sundays (or whatever day works for you) so if DIL ever wants to invite you out.  I think emailing her worked out so well that this might work too. 
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: herbalescapes on March 29, 2012, 12:46:06 PM
I'm going to jump on the bandwagon with the folks saying your DS shouldn't invite you over unless he will be home. You may be caught in the middle of a husband-wife battle that has nothing to do with how your DIL (or DS, for that matter) feels about you.  Next time he invites you, verify that he will be home and if he says he'll be there shortly, tell him to call you when he gets home.

I understand wanting them to do some of the initiating, but there could be a whole host of reasons why they aren't picking up the phone.  If seeing your GD is something you want, then you need to be willing to do the work to make it happen.  My ILs once complained about not seeing us for their birthdays.  Well, we had never received an invitation to spend MIL's bday with her.  We had for FILs and went twice and the third time a family emergency had us going out of town at the last minute.  I told my MIL that if she could convince her own mother to still throw her a birthday party go do for it, but expecting her DIL to do the work was just not going to happen. 

Sounds like there have been some improvements, so I hope it continues.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 29, 2012, 02:18:11 PM
Hello herbal ,

thankyou for your input .....

Thing is , if my DS invites me over , what excuse would I give for not wanting to be in the house
with his DW if he's not there ?
Would that not be very insulting ?Also the visit was on my way home from a hospital appointment, just to call
in to say hello .
The other subject you mentioned of me initiating visits is fine with me , but I feel they might think I
am commandeering all their free time , and demanding that they visit or I visit them .
It's not an easy route we MIL's have to take , I always try to get it right and don't always succeed .
I would love to see my GD every day and never tire of her , now I know that's a ridiculous request , so I try
not to ask to see her too often .

My point was , I would like them to WANT to come and see me , not agreeing just to keep me quiet !  lol
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Pen on March 29, 2012, 07:00:35 PM
LL, I'm going through the same pretzel-bending w/my DIL & DS. I never know how things will be taken or spun, only that I usually end up being the one in the wrong. For example, if I text both so they are on the same page and DIL won't feel left out, she doesn't respond and wonders why I'm bugging her, but if I don't text her I'm excluding her and favoring DS.

It's impossible to get any kind of a response from DIL regarding plans, so I go through DS. When he "forgets" to tell her, I'm put in a very awkward position. I too would like them to want to see us the way they seem to want to see DIL's FOO. It's humiliating to feel as if I'm groveling for any crumb of attention or being seen as a duty call, especially if it's my birthday or other special time.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 30, 2012, 12:05:04 AM
We are wrong which ever way we jump Pen , we need instruction manuals to keep us right . It's so precarious being a  Mom/MIL  not to mention dangerous ! Lol
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: artlady on March 30, 2012, 05:26:14 AM
So sad these situations are all so much alike , how much times have changed and these AC that are now adults seem to have done the opposite from what we thought we raised them to be like . All I can say is HALLIJUAH for this site so we can all share, complain, support and laugh together. I do hope for all of us that once they get a little age on them and we still are around ( no teeth, bottle lens glasses, hearing aids, canes, clothes on backwards , inside out) they will see how important parents and grandparents really are in their lives and their children's' . TGIF for us all and have a great weekend. Love to you all
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Pooh on March 30, 2012, 11:43:54 AM
I'm glad you are getting the meeting together LL.  So happy for you.

I will say it gets old always hearing that MIL/GM needs to do this...needs to do that.  Jump through hoops, after all you want to see them.....  At what point does your DIL need to make an effort?  And it does feel like any way we turn is wrong with it.  Ask and you're being intrusive...don't ask and you are not involved in your GC's lives.  Then we hear DIL shouldn't have to make an effort....we're not her family...let DS do it.  Make DS make the effort (and yes I do think DS's get off the hook with a bunch and should make more of an effort).  Oh, but go through DS and we should have included and asked DIL because after all, they should both agree.  It's exhausting.  So in an effort to not be exhausted, our choices are to back off and let them come to us...which was the issue to begin with...never coming to us.  So for our sanity, we have to love from a distance, which constitutes not getting to know the GC, which puts us back in the "doesn't get involved" category.  Shewww. 

That wasn't aimed at our DILS here as you guys have it the opposite way and have tried.  I'm talking about mine, LL's, Pens, and other MIL/GM's here. 
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 30, 2012, 01:09:53 PM
It's called running round in circles Pooh .
The only reason I continue doing it  is to see my GD .
If she wasn't in the picture , I wouldn't feature in it either .
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: artlady on March 30, 2012, 03:22:07 PM
Hey I think we need to have a national convention  lol We could really have some fun i bet and it might  make some of this crap we go through a national or regional affair every year to look forward to after all the stuff we put up with during the year to be grandparents and parents.  I bet if we were all sitting at a round table hashing this out we could solve it all plus tell Washington a thing or two.  lol
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Liz on March 30, 2012, 03:28:33 PM
ArtLady...  After reading some of these really sad situations... I am more for adopting people we like.  My kids have lots of surrogate grandparents... Know them better than their own grandparents.  And I have become really friendly to the older people in my neighborhood.  I guess when you don't get what you need... You look for it in other people.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: artlady on March 30, 2012, 04:04:20 PM
Oh yes that is why still teach art 2 days a week , I can be a grandparent 2 days a week to about 200 kids.  I've gotten to know some families very well and the grandparents live way off or are not living so I can pretend. Hey we can adopt plenty of folks that would love to be cared about from all the wise women on here .
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: pam1 on March 30, 2012, 04:07:08 PM
Quote from: Pooh on March 30, 2012, 11:43:54 AM
I'm glad you are getting the meeting together LL.  So happy for you.

I will say it gets old always hearing that MIL/GM needs to do this...needs to do that.  Jump through hoops, after all you want to see them.....  At what point does your DIL need to make an effort?  And it does feel like any way we turn is wrong with it.  Ask and you're being intrusive...don't ask and you are not involved in your GC's lives.  Then we hear DIL shouldn't have to make an effort....we're not her family...let DS do it.  Make DS make the effort (and yes I do think DS's get off the hook with a bunch and should make more of an effort).  Oh, but go through DS and we should have included and asked DIL because after all, they should both agree.  It's exhausting.  So in an effort to not be exhausted, our choices are to back off and let them come to us...which was the issue to begin with...never coming to us.  So for our sanity, we have to love from a distance, which constitutes not getting to know the GC, which puts us back in the "doesn't get involved" category.  Shewww. 

That wasn't aimed at our DILS here as you guys have it the opposite way and have tried.  I'm talking about mine, LL's, Pens, and other MIL/GM's here.

I understand, Pooh.  We are all dealing with difficult people.  I'm sure many DILs here can relate to what you wrote just swap around the titles lol.

Bottom line, I think we are all in the same boat.  We're on some kind of game show but we don't know the rules and/or the rules change as part of the game.  It's extraordinarily frustrating for us all.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Kennedy on March 31, 2012, 05:01:53 PM
Quote from: Pen on March 27, 2012, 07:10:12 PM
I love the organ grinder/monkey reference :)
I was thinking the exact same thing!
Isn't it odd how everything we have today that is supposed to "save time" yet NO ONE has any time much to spare for one another? I remember my parents many times having friends over to play cards and us kids playing outside. My folks were home every night and we sat down to supper together. They didn't have instant meals,fast food on every corner,micro waves,and such. They never owned a cell phone but always knew where I was. 
Now all we seem to do is work for the pretty patio and have no time left over to sit on it..
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: artlady on March 31, 2012, 08:48:32 PM
Kennedy that is soooooooooooo true and these days are so different plus these young couples have no clue how much easier it was back then when everyone had time for each other . I do wish we had time to spend with the ones we love and to use that nice patio more . 
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Pen on April 01, 2012, 10:50:21 AM
Yeah, I remember my Ps sitting on the patio every day after DF came home from work. Neighbors would drop by, we kids would be playing, there was time before dinner to unwind. Of course DM had not worked outside the home since she married (it was the 1950's.) No technology burning up our free time, no over-scheduled children to schlepp from activity to activity.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Pooh on April 03, 2012, 07:39:09 AM
I remember those days too.  I miss them.  One of the things I missed so badly when I was raising my own children was not letting them go roaming around the neighborhood(s).  We used to ride our bikes everyone and be gone for hours.  My parents never worried about us.  Got thirsty?  Stop at any neighbors house and get a glass of water, coke or a frozen pop.  They would hand us gum and away we'd go again.

I always hated that I couldn't let mine do that out of fear of their safety because many in society could not be trusted.  We had the 3-4 neighbors we trusted, but the others moved in and out so much you didn't know them.

Sad reflection of our times.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: herbalescapes on April 04, 2012, 07:55:10 AM
Did you ever consider what message your DS is sending your DIL with his behavior?  I mean, if my husband invited his parents over when he wouldn't be home (even if he was supposed to be there "shortly") I would wonder if he was trying to avoid them.  If he invited them over and we were out, I'd wonder why he didn't keep an eye on the clock to make sure we were home in time to greet them.  It certainly wouldn't be my responsibility.  Or if he made those plans after we had the earlier plans, I'd wonder if he was hedging his bets to avoid his parents. 

My Dh and I met in college, hundreds of miles away from both families.  We spent our dating years after college hundreds of miles away from each other as well as FOOs.  Our first four or so years of marriage we were hundreds of miles away from FOOs.  For the first 8 years of us being a couple, my main impression of his family was from his comments, and they were mostly negative.  Not extreme - no accusations of abuse or the like.  But he'd complain about his mom nagging him and treating him like he was still a child and didn't she realize he managed to get himself dressed and to work every day now.  Whenever he went to visit them or they came to visit him, he'd say how it was nice to see them, but after a day or so it was definitely time for them (or him) to go home.  When we moved within a half hour of them, my impression was not that my DH wanted a whole lot of interaction with his parents.  Then when we were here, he rarely took the initiative to see them.  He didn't tell me about invitations they gave us.  I had a class one night a week for 9 months out of the year, but he never used that time to meet up with his folks.  When I had to spend 10 weeks of dog training class, leaving him free to do what he wanted, he didn't use that opportunity to see his parents.  He never suggested getting together with them for Father's Day.  In my mind, I get to dictate what we do for Mother's Day and he owns Father's Day.  Only once did he try to get us all together for his birthday.  Only once did he try to get us together for his mom's birthday. 

Put all that together, and I don't think I'm crazy for assuming he didn't want a whole lot of contact with his parents.  So why should I make an effort for something I'm convinced my DH doesn't really want?  I could be wrong in my assumption, I know that.  But I have spelled out to my DH how I interpret his behavior and he chooses to continue in that behavior.  I have caught my husband lying to me and his parents about how things are, so I know he is saying one thing to them, but then doing things that undermine what he says he wants.  I don't want to really rain on anyone's parade, but you can't assume your AC are telling you the truth.  If the truth is your DS really wants to minimize your presence in his live and somehow the DIL has been given the blame (whether through outright lies or miscommunications or assumptions or etc.) it's pretty human nature for a DS to let DIL take the heat and sit back and let the MIL-DIL relationship deteriorate while he sits back as the poor hen-pecked husband.  He gets to have his cake and eat it too.  We are culturally conditioned to blame the MIL or DIL when things go bad. 

I know there are cases where the DIL is the instigator in a family rift (just like there are cases where a MIL is an instigator), but before blame is cast on the DIL, you should keep in mind that hearsay from a DS isn't gospel truth. 
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on April 04, 2012, 08:53:45 AM
hi herbal ,

thanks for your input ..
As I was attending a hospital near where my Ds lives , he Invited me to call in .
We didn't know how long my appointment would take , and also as he would be at work . It could have worked out that he
would be there before us or vice versa .
I don't understand the problem of him not being there actually , why couldn't my DIL greet us without him .
She lived with me for 6 months , and he wasn't there 24 hours a day , so I don't see a problem of me dropping
in whilst he was away .
Also if he didn't want any contact why would he invite me in the first place ?
Not to mention asking for me to take him and his family in when homeless .

This isn't a case of me insisting on a visit , or pushing myself on them .
It's probably a case of my Ds not telling his DW in time .
Also I didn't mention the fact to her or him , that I was a bit miffed at no one being home .
I can assure you there was no 'heat ' involved .

I don't get these families where his parents are his responsibility, and hers are her responsibility .
Surely we are all now family ?
Marriage is the joining of two families, or is that just another fairytale ?
I suppose I am now the older generation with old fashioned family values .
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: justus on April 04, 2012, 12:49:25 PM
LL,
It is time to lower your expectations yet again. It is kind of cruel, but, there it is and there is nothing you can do about it. Your DS seems the responsibility for inviting you over has fallen to your DS, and it doesn't seem to be all that important to him to have you over, so it falls to you to do the inviting. This is one of those things you cannot change, so let it go. It also falls to you to make it a pleasant experience. When you are there, don't take offense, it isn't worth the effort, and just be happy and pleasant to be around. Make it so they don't have any reason not to have or want you around.

I don't lament the fact that I have to make more of an effort, because I am more prepared to do so than my adult children. Not only do I have a small understanding of what they are going through having been a young adult and having made lots of mistakes, but I have a small understanding of what I am going through right now as a parent of adult children, which they don't and it is unreasonable to expect they should. If I have to be the adult in the situation, well, I am old enough and mature enough to know how to do that, and sometimes they simply aren't. Having had to be the adult in my relationship with my Mom for most of my life, I won't do that to my children.

For me and DH, it is his family is his responsibility and my family is my responsibility, and we are in our late 40s, so it isn't just young couples who do this. It dawned on me while I was trying to establish a relationship with his family that it was me making all the effort, so I stopped. I was having enough trouble with having a relationship with my own family. Obviously his family wasn't all that into me, and he wasn't all that interested in him, so why should I kill myself trying to make something happen just because I was the woman and it was my "job" to do so? I have found since then that it was a good thing I stopped, because it has caused MIL and DH to deal with each other in ways they would not have if I had continued to be the buffer.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: herbalescapes on April 04, 2012, 01:02:17 PM
It used to be that the family social calendar was the wife's responsibilty.  That model doesn't work anymore, so couples need a way to figure out who will take care of which social responsibilities - just like household chores which use to be the foregone wife's responsibility - so dividing things your family-your responsibility is pretty equitable.  Doesn't work for everyone, but if a couple decides to do things that way, that's their perogative.

Does it really matter why your DIL didn't want to greet you?  If she didn't, your DS shouldn't have put that job on her.  My husband has tried to make me responsible for deliveries while he is at work.  If I have other plans, I tell him too bad.  It's his delivery, so he needs to make sure he is there.

I don't want to second guess your son and his feelings, so let's talk in hypotheticals.  If an AC wants nothing or minimal involvement with his parents, he may not feel comfortable telling them that.  He may feel guilty.  He may want to have his cake and eat it too - be able to keep his parents on the sidelines, but not have to deal with the negative emotions.  I know plenty of cases where a parent doesn't really want to be very hands on with their kids, but they don't want to be criticized for being uncaring parents.  It could be something similar.  It's very possible none of this has anything to do with your situation.  I'm just throwing things out to consider.  If your DIL feels - rightly or wrongly - that your DS doesn't really want you around, she may just be doing what she thinks he really wants.  Emphasis on thinks. 

I know this doesn't make a whole lotta sense, but it could be your DIL/DS are uncomfortable around you simply because you did bail them out.  It's a case of no good deed going unpunished.  It's tough to accept charity/help as an adult.  You might be a reminder how they failed.  It's not fair; you did a good deed.  But they have to direct their embarassment somewhere, and it's easier to marginalize you than deal with their own feelings of failure/insecurity/etc.  Just a possiblity.

In any case, I do hope you get to see your GC more and develop a good relationship.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on April 04, 2012, 03:12:34 PM
Either my DS has been hiding his dislike for me all these years , or I have mistaken his caring ways as a sham .

I'm glad we had a lovely day together on Sunday , when we all gathered for a BBQ at my house , I hope they found it
not too hard to be in my company .
It was worth it for me to hear my GD tell me she loves me thiiiiiisssss much .
Oh yes and my DS asked me would I like to come over and babysit over night ......I do hope he made sure that
he ok'd it with his DW first ...I would hate to be unwelcome .I assume they are going out together , so I suppose
she must know , maybe I'll check with her to make sure .

I have never been likened to a parcel before , I thought a grandparent was perhaps more important .


Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Pen on April 04, 2012, 10:58:52 PM
LL, I doubt your DS has been misrepresenting his feelings. I'm glad you had a good time with your GD, sounds lovely. And what a parcel you would be, lol! I hope whoever wraps you up adds a couple of air holes & a "fragile" label.

Sometimes I think my DS pretends things are normal between DIL and his FOO; I could see him saying to us, "Stop by since you'll be near. If I'm not home yet, hang out w/DIL for a bit." Magical thinking, based on DIL's similar invitations to her FOO & friends.

Something similar just happened to me...DS invited me to stop by since he'd learned I was going to be very close to his home and DIL was going to be away. At a bit of expense in time & money, but worth it to honor an invitation from my DS, I arranged my day so I could drop by. DS was home as planned, but when DIL arrived soon after, I got the feeling I wasn't welcome anymore so I left. If it had been DIL's FOO who had dropped by instead of me, I certainly hope DS would have been more accommodating.

I've learned that although it sounds like a casual, normal, friendly invitation, w/DIL & DS it's fraught with danger. I will not fall for it again w/o getting something signed and notorized by all concerned parties.  :P


Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on April 05, 2012, 02:00:32 AM
How about a government health warning stamped on my forehead ;D
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: artlady on April 05, 2012, 07:56:54 AM
Yes and on the outside of the box besides fragile ( with the holes poked in) it might should say, don't drop or crush box and stand it right side up , don't wait till Christmas to open. Hope you day is better LL. Sending hugs your way and Best of Easter to you.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on April 05, 2012, 03:22:43 PM
thanks Artlady , you too , hope we all get some cuddles for Easter .... :)
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: pam1 on April 06, 2012, 10:58:00 PM
Quote from: lancaster lady on April 04, 2012, 08:53:45 AM
hi herbal ,

thanks for your input ..
As I was attending a hospital near where my Ds lives , he Invited me to call in .
We didn't know how long my appointment would take , and also as he would be at work . It could have worked out that he
would be there before us or vice versa .
I don't understand the problem of him not being there actually , why couldn't my DIL greet us without him .
She lived with me for 6 months , and he wasn't there 24 hours a day , so I don't see a problem of me dropping
in whilst he was away .
Also if he didn't want any contact why would he invite me in the first place ?
Not to mention asking for me to take him and his family in when homeless .

This isn't a case of me insisting on a visit , or pushing myself on them .
It's probably a case of my Ds not telling his DW in time .
Also I didn't mention the fact to her or him , that I was a bit miffed at no one being home .
I can assure you there was no 'heat ' involved .

I don't get these families where his parents are his responsibility, and hers are her responsibility .
Surely we are all now family ?
Marriage is the joining of two families, or is that just another fairytale ?
I suppose I am now the older generation with old fashioned family values .

LL, so was this example part of one of the times DIL wasn't home?  Because I have to say if you didn't know the exact time you would be over, DS didn't know the exact time...how would DS expect DIL to just sit at home waiting?  It doesn't seem quite right to me, I would be upset if my own parents did this and we have a pretty decent relationship.  I like to know when someone is going to be over and I would dislike this type of arrangement.  I'm a planner by nature and many people are, not right or wrong, just different.

I, as well, don't think your DS or DIL is trying to say anything to you about their like or dislike of you.  I think this just adds more information that it was clearly a communication issue in their marriage, one in which your DS in not being very respectful to the people he does invite and his DW. 

Proof in the pudding that they will spend time with you and it is pleasant (the bbq on Sunday.)  I think it's entirely about the planning or lack thereof that is the problem in the other situations.  You were successful and had a pleasant time when it was planned out, an invitation sent, received and agreed to by all parties.  That's probably the trick here.  DIL sounds like a planner, not right or wrong, just different.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on April 07, 2012, 01:37:26 AM
hi Pam ,

A one off , yes ok .
However this was three times in a row , and also for my own GD's birthday , which was also arranged
obviously , and the house was empty , anyone would feel uncomfortable .
I never show up unannounced or uninvited .
The time window was after 4.30pm and my Ds arrives home at 5pm .
It's not that I was dropping in on the spare of the moment .
As I mentioned before , I don't want to be the scape goat for my DIL , so she can make a statement to her DH.
If she has issues with him , don't make me the subject .

It all might be a coincidence , and I am not making a big deal over it honestly .
I suppose I feel vulnerable , knowing the treatment I have received in the past .
I would never go uninvited ever , but we all like to feel welcome and wanted when we
do go .
It's just sad that for every visit we need an appointment , is that how all families work
these days ?
That is the point really , if you are loved , surely any visit any time is a welcome one ??
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: herbalescapes on April 07, 2012, 06:53:59 AM
In a word, No.  Just because you are loved doesn't mean a visit is welcome anytime.  Some people like or don't mind drop in visits.  Others hate them.  Neither is right or wrong, but it's the person or people who live in the house/apt/condo/RV/tent/etc.  who get to decide whether drop in visits are welcome or not.  I think the problem is you don't mind drop in visits, so you interpret others' opposition to them as a reflection of their feelings toward you.  It can get complicated when someone doesn't mind drop ins from some people but does mind drop ins from others.  But even in that case, it's not necessarily a reflection of the person's feelings toward the dropper in.  You grow up with your own parents and see each other at all times of day - when you are at your best and when you are not - so it's not unusual that a drop in from one's own parents wouldn't be as upsetting as a drop in from your ILs.  Your parents used to change your diapers, so if they see the sink full of dishes or catch you in your PJs at 4 PM or without makeup and hair unbrushed, well, it wouldn't be the first time.  I have a few friends who I wouldn't mind dropping in unannounced, but anyone else - other friends, blood relations, ILs, neighbors - are not welcome to drop in.  That's my personality/temperment/biorhythm and it's my house, so my rules. 

You've discovered a visit needs to be coordinated ahead of time and even then you might have to track DS down.  Try to focus on the success of the visit and ignore (i know it's hard) the work to make it happen.  Maybe GD will inherit your likes-drop-ins gene and down the line you can drop in on her anytime.    Good luck.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: Pen on April 07, 2012, 08:56:29 AM
I get the anti-drop in stance, I like a little warning too. However, if a loved one suddenly showed up I'd deal with it...people are more important than housework to me. My momentary embarrassment isn't worth their rejection, IMO. Just my view, I know others are different.

LL was talking about an arranged visit, instigated by her DS. In all innocence she accepted the invitation, showed up at the arranged time, and was snubbed. It happened to me too, and I felt unloved, rejected, confused and very sad. I have never done such a thing to my DS & DIL; if I invite them to visit I am home & prepared to welcome them when they arrive.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on April 07, 2012, 11:03:47 AM
Thanks Pen .....x
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: herbalescapes on April 08, 2012, 08:02:26 AM
My "No" was in reply to LL's comment that it was sad that they needed an appointment for every visit and shouldn't any visit from a loved one be welcome.  It can be hard to understand just how aggravating/tiring/horrific drop-in visits are for some people.  Think of it as a phobia.  Some people are afraid of cats. Even though they know a cat can't hurt them, they experience all the physical symptoms of fear -heart racing, adrenaline pumping, fight-or-flight instinct - when confronted by a cat.  It's not all in their heads.  If someone doesn't welcome unannounced visits, you shouldn't feel it is a reflection on their feelings for you.

I don't think anyone questions LL feeling hurt when DS invited them over for the bday and she showed up to an empty house.  DS should have made sure they were home or called if they were unavoidably detained.  People question why, since DS issued the invitation, DIL was being held accountable for the empty house.  Did DIL know about the invitation?  Did she know what time to expect her ILs?  Were the plans to see her FOO earlier in the day made before DS made his invitation?  If so, how much time did DS allow for that visit before setting the time for his own parents?  Was it around the normal amount of time they spend with her FOO? Did DS try to get them to leave DIL's FOO in time to be home for his own parents visit?  Why didn't he call when it was obvious they wouldnt' be home by the set time? 

For the two other visits cited, they were essentially drop in visits on the DIL.  Was she even home when DS said she was?  Did he call and tell her to expect her MIL?  Did DIL already have plans to be out?  I think the natural thing to assume in those two visits was DS was mistaken and DIL wasn't home although he said she was.  One of the priviledges of adulthood is you get to set your own social calendar.  Not even your spouse gets to decide when you have to play hostess.  Even if DIL was home and DS called to let her know MIL was on the way, I couldn't fault her if she didn't feel like a visit and decided to go out.  Whether it's because she doesn't like her MIL or just didn't want a visit at those two particular times, it's her priviledge as an adult.  How many times has DS volunteered DIL to play hostess without her consent - and not just with MIL?  If this is a bad habit of his, the only way to cure him is to not be there to cover up for his faulty invitations.  Or maybe this isn't a habit, but she wants to nip it in the bud.  If you are someone who hates drop in visits or doesn't care to entertain your ILs without your spouse around, it's better to not facilitate such interactions from the getgo.  If you go along with it, chances are you'll start seething as the bahaviour continues and then get a big blow up.   Would it be better to show up and have DIL answer the door and tell you to wait in the car until DS came home?  Why did DS issue the second "oh come on by, I'll be home from work soon and wifey is home now" invitation after the first one failed?  And why was LL surprised when she found an empty house the second time when she'd already been down that road?  There's a pattern of DS claiming DIL will play hostess but then she's not there.  Instead of blaming DIL, just accept when DS gives a last-minute invite and he's not home, chances are you'll find an empty house. 

I'm all behind LL being upset with her DS, not because he's her DS and it should be his-family-his-responsibility, but because he's the one who issued the invitations.
Title: Re: Is it Me ?
Post by: lancaster lady on April 08, 2012, 12:58:29 PM
I certainly will not be making that mistake again , I will check with all parties before I visit ,
and yes my DIL did know in advance about all visits ......................the only reason I returned  was because
I was invited , and mainly to see my GD .
If my DIL did not want me to visit and was otherwise busy , a text could have solved that problem , I would
have by passed their house . To be just not there in my mind was inexcusable and very bad manners ......
sorry but thats how I feel .
I don't think her own FOO have to make appointments to visit as they live 5 minutes away , but then
my DIL is always there anyway .
I think we have done this subject to death anyway , thanks for all your comments .