OMG, I can't stop shaking. I am a mess. Just hung up from DS five minutes ago. He called me. He called me using the phone number I was never supposed to have. I immediately knew it was something bad. OMG, it truly, was. He called because he just "saw the worst thing he ever saw". FDIL's father committed suicide this morning. He put a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. I became ill. I can't stop shaking. My heart hurts for FDIL. She loved him, but they were at odds because he had deserted the family a couple of years ago and he was spending less and less time with them. I don't know if she's at peace with her last words to him. She was just so hurt and angry.
DS said that he wants to stop by tonight and to please call him when we get home. He says he wants to fix his family. That he doesn't want to be like FDIL and her family.
I'm sorry if this is too heavy for this forum but I needed to get this out.
I'm sorry for the whole thing, Muffin. That is heartbreaking. :(
OMG that is so sad. Your son saw him do it? OMG isn't even big enough. I cannot imagine being there when someone did that. Glad you are there for him he is going to need it after seeing that. Its not to much for this board at least I don't think you need to be able to talk about it and let it out. I feel so sad for your FDIL to this isn't going to be an easy time at all for anyone.
Muffin, this will be a hard day for you. My hope is that this may be the start of something better for your family relationships. But know that as you go through it, no matter what happens, we are here for you. We are your backup. We all are thinking about you, and praying for you.
I'm so sorry to hear about DS's FFIL. That is awful! I do hope that your relationship with DS will be better through all of this and that something "good" can come from all this horror. ((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))
And Muffin, FWIW, I appreciate you sharing it. If nothing else it helps to put our "problems" into perspective. I'll be thinking of all of you.
Thank you so much guys. I'm at work and I can't stop crying. I don't know what I would do without you all today. I just can't believe this. It seems like a dream/nightmare.
Sassy, he didn't actually see him do it, thank God. I called him again to check on him and to learn more of what happened. He said he saw him in the hospital.
Thank you, Seasons, ADIL and Holly. Thank you for your words and for letting me know you are there for me. I really needed to hear that.
Quote from: themuffin on May 25, 2011, 07:00:48 AM
Thank you so much guys. I'm at work and I can't stop crying. I don't know what I would do without you all today. I just can't believe this. It seems like a dream/nightmare.
Sassy, he didn't actually see him do it, thank God. I called him again to check on him and to learn more of what happened. He said he saw him in the hospital.
Thank you, Seasons, ADIL and Holly. Thank you for your words and for letting me know you are there for me. I really needed to hear that.
Still seeing a human being after that is still going to be haunting for your DS but really for your FDIL. Thats her father I can't even form sentences right now. And keep us updated or if you need anything let us know we are here for you.
Thank you Sassy. DS said that FDIL and older family members are on their way to visit his other children to break the news. FDIL's father had two young children, one of which is an adorable seven year old boy who has "daddy worship" He simply adores his daddy and this is really breaking my heart. DS is sitting with him while the family goes to the city to notify the others. The little one who we all call "The Boy" doesn't know. They don't know how to tell him yet.
FDIL and a few of the other siblings are racked with guilt according to DS. They weren't speaking to him and when they did they gave him a real tongue lashing. FDIL and younger sis believe they are the reason he did it. Dear God, that is a terrible guilt to carry. I am praying for her and her family.
Thanks again all. This is such a sad day.
(((TM))) I'm sorry for your FDIL/DS loss.
Please remember to take of yourself at this time too.
Thank you Pam. I just sent FDIL a text telling her that I was sorry from the depths of my soul. I told her I was sorry for "everything". I don't expect to get anything back, but I am hoping that I don't get something hurtful in response. I just couldn't let her think I didn't care. I did care for her. She wouldn't have been allowed to live in my home if I didn't.
Oh, how I wish none of this had ever happened.
I'm so sorry muffin. What a horrible thing to go through for all of you. There will be some rough days ahead for your DS and FDIL, and all her family. I sincerely hope they find some professional help to get them through this as they are going to need it. The guilt they feel must be overwhelming right now, but they need help to realize that he made a choice. You can not control the will of others. I deal with this often and it is one of the worst things a family can go through and guilt is always a big player.
I am glad that DS called you and wants to fix things. I'm sorry it took something like this for him to see it, but some things can open your eyes to the larger things in life. Be there for him, her and support them the best way you can, with love.
My thoughts and prayers for all of you muffin and for his young sons.
That man must have been in a very dark place to have done this , and sometimes you just cannot reach them .
you are there for them , and that will be a comfort .
so sad for the family left behind , thinking of them all ....LL
Muffin,
You should have your DS get FDIL into counselling. She needs someone to repeatedly tell her that it is NOT her fault that this man made a decision to take his own life. I can't even begin to imagine how hard this must be for her. And that little boy! 7! OMG! My heart is breaking for all involved. (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Muffin's FDIL and Family))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
How terribly tragic. :'(
Thanks Pooh. I plan to be there for DS and FDIL if she'll let me. I haven't heard any reply to my text, but that's to be expected.
You know I never imagined that DS and I would reunite like this. I always thought he would just realize that life was just really tough without family love and support and that his finances would make him swallow his pride. Never in a million years did I expect that he would experience something like this. I never wanted him or her to have to go through something as tragic as this in order to realize that he loved his family.
I'm anxious about our meeting tonight. I don't have a clue what to expect. I don't know if this means he wants to come home. I don't know if I'm ready for that. I don't know if I'll ever be ready for that. This is so, so terrible.
Thank you LL. I don't know what goes through one's mind to make them make such a choice. I don't know how he could not have thought about what he was doing to his family, those kids. I want to be there for FDIL but doubt she'll let me. I'm sure she'd doubt my sincerity.
ADIL, DS and FDIL both needed counseling even before this. I don't know what this is going to do to FDIL. She was already emotionally wounded. I hope this isn't a breaking point for her. I'm sure DS will try to do what's best for her, but it's completely out of my hands. They are both adults.
Give him a hug and just be mom, TM. There's no right way for anyone to react right now. One moment at a time, try not to think too far ahead in the future. Take care of yourself, remember that.
Thanks Pam. You're right. One moment at a time. Everything will fall into place. BTW, what is "TM". My mind is just shot right now. ???
Unfortunately, sometimes complete and utter hopelessness just swallows us up and we are incapable of thinking how it may affect the family members that would be left behind. All that can be seen is the despair that we are in. While, I do believe it is a cowardly thing to do, I completely understand it 100%. I have personally struggled in this area (and sometimes still do struggle). When you have that level of despair all you want is for it to end. It very seldom has anything to do with anyone else. Sometimes the thought is "if I just end it all, I won't have to deal with XXX." It isn't about sending a message or hurting anyone left behind, it is pure selfishness.
I hope that your FDIL will see that it is not in any way her fault. :'(
TM = The Muffin ;-)
You did support her by sending that text. Don't read too much into her not answering right now, I'm sure she doesn't know which way to turn. You sent it and now it is up to her...that is being supportive. Like pam said, just be there for DS right now and be patient during your meeting.
My best thoughts are with all of you, Muffin.
Quote from: themuffin on May 25, 2011, 07:52:42 AM
Thanks Pam. You're right. One moment at a time. Everything will fall into place. BTW, what is "TM". My mind is just shot right now. ???
TM is short for "TheMuffin"
((((TheMuffin))))
Thoughts and prayers going out to your FDIL and her family- along with your DS. Hang in there. So sorry this happened.
TheMuffin, we're with you as you and your family go through this very difficult time. Please take care of yourself as best you can. {{{hugs}}}
Thank you OW and Pen. I'm so glad to have all of you. You have no idea how this site has saved me during all of this. I feel like I have a bunch of sisters looking out for me. I adore all of you.
"TM" = themuffin, I would have never figured that out. Dang my mind is a mess! :) I was thinking "tender momemt."
Thank you Elsieshaye. I appreciate all thoughts and prayers. I finally stopped shaking. This just doesn't seem real. And yesterday was such a happy day. My GM just turned 91. Cousins I haven't seen in a while came out to celebrate. GM is AMAZING! She still works as a foster grandparent at the PAL (police athletic league). She's got all her wits about her and gets around great. She even danced yesterday. We were sooo happy...and today....this :'(
themuffin, remember to take care of yourself, you'll probably be on an emotional roller coaster (as will everyone else) for some time. A friend of mine committed suicide and there is usually a lot of guilty on the part of the family and friends, who think they should have seen it and stopped it but there is nothing that can be done to prevent it. It usually means the person has reached the limits of suffering that they can handle and need to stop it one way or another.
I would caution you as well, to keep your expectations low, as everyone's emotions will boomerang all over the place. Just be a rock of quiet and unconditional support for everyone and see where the chips fall.
Thinking of you and sending love...
Thank you so much Luise,
I'm crying again, but this site is like therapy for my soul. I don't know how to thank you for creating it. You are one of my heros.
So sorry about your friend Keys Girl. :'( Suicide is difficult to deal with even when you and the deceased on the best of terms. However, I can't even imagine how one feels if they were fighting and said cruel, hurtful things to the person who committs suicide and believes the act was a result of their actions. Can you ever recover from the guilt of thinking perhaps your words put that person over the edge? Believe me, I'm not saying it was anyone's fault. I wish I could take that guilt away from FDIL. I just know that FDIL can be very vicious with words, (I've heard her speak to dad while angry a few times) and I know she must be feeling ten kinds of terrible right now. And even if she doesn't feel it's her fault that he did it, she still has to live with knowing that her last words to him were cruel and hateful. She can never change that. I think I must have cared for FDIL more than I ever realized because I can't stop hurting for her.
I don't have any expectations regarding DS and FDIL and our relationship. I just want to be there for them now and deal with this. The other stuff will fall into place later. It's just not important now. What is important is that DS reached out to me. That he doesn't want to be the one with the regrets he sees FDIL having. Also, that he called me almost immediately. We, his family, wasn't an after thought. He didn't waste any time in reaching out to us and saying he wanted to make things right. That's a big first step. We'll just take baby steps from there.
Thanks everyone.
Dear Muffin,
I'm so sorry about this tragedy. We are your sisters and here for you.
Its very sad...for everyone involved...even the dad. I wanted to mention the stages
of grief in case you weren't aware of them;
The five stages of grief:
Denial: "this can't be happening to me."
Anger: "Why is this happening? Who is to blame?"
Bargaining: "Make this not happen, and in return I will ____."
Depression: "I'm too sad to do anything."
Acceptance: "I'm at peace with what happened."
also Muffin, here is a good/short piece about grief after suicide, it looks excellent.
http://www.buddhanet.net/r_suicid.htm
You and your family are in my prayers.
Quote from: themuffin on May 25, 2011, 09:15:20 AMAnd even if she doesn't feel it's her fault that he did it, she still has to live with knowing that her last words to him were cruel and hateful. She can never change that.
Please be careful to never, ever say this to her. She may very well not feel that her words were cruel and hateful, depending on what her past experiences with him were. My father and I had some serious, vicious blowouts, and we both gave as good as we got. My father saw any kind of softness or restraint as a weakness to be exploited, and only respected me when I used a sledgehammer. He was not hurt by a single thing I said, even though most other people would have been. Has she ever said to you or DS that she feels what she said was cruel and hurtful, or is this your assessment? Either way, let this thought go, and just focus on being a soft, nonjudgemental place for both of them to land.
Thanks Tara, that was a good website. I hope FDIL and family are coping right now. I imagine they are still in the shock/denial stage. It just doesn't seem real. At least not to me. I have no way of knowing what they are feeling.
Just as ADIL was kind enough to share, )))))thank you ADIL(((((( my FDIL told me that she also had suicidal thoughts in the past. I hope she's able to work this out. She can be very mean and nasty, but underneath that is a sad, wounded girl. Yes, she's not always nice, but there is a history that led her down that path. She has been taught from her bad experiences that adults are not to be trusted. This would include her very own mother and father (rest his soul). I knew that she had parent issues. I had hoped to persuade her that some parents were good. But it seems that she influenced DS to her way of thinking.
She's suffering now and I hope that someone is giving her love and support. I don't know if she can get it from mom, since mom must be suffering too.
Quote from: elsieshaye on May 25, 2011, 09:57:33 AM
Quote from: themuffin on May 25, 2011, 09:15:20 AMAnd even if she doesn't feel it's her fault that he did it, she still has to live with knowing that her last words to him were cruel and hateful. She can never change that.
Please be careful to never, ever say this to her. She may very well not feel that her words were cruel and hateful, depending on what her past experiences with him were. My father and I had some serious, vicious blowouts, and we both gave as good as we got. My father saw any kind of softness or restraint as a weakness to be exploited, and only respected me when I used a sledgehammer. He was not hurt by a single thing I said, even though most other people would have been. Has she ever said to you or DS that she feels what she said was cruel and hurtful, or is this your assessment? Either way, let this thought go, and just focus on being a soft, nonjudgemental place for both of them to land.
Oh Dear NO!!! I would never, say or imply EVER that her words were cruel and hurtful. If ever given the opportunity to talk to her about this I would allow her to do the talking. I would reassure her that it was his choice and not her fault. If she did mention that she said cruel things, I would further reassure her that she wasn't at fault and that many children sometimes say mean things to their parents. I would tell her that I know he knew she loved him because even I knew she loved him.
DS told me this morning that she feels personally responsible because of the things she said. She feels that she pushed him over the edge. I wish I was just assuming. That is why my heart hurts so badly for her.
OMG - this is not too difficult for the forum, this is you muffin, and you have just received two things, a devastating piece of news, and a son who wishes to repair a relationship that has been estranged.
Suicide is devastating to the many people left behind. Now is a time for you to embrace your DIL and if it is in the way to make her heal and the conversation allows for it assure her it is not her fault, nor any other persons. I think it important to include the other persons, as it gives a broader perspective and does not single her out. However, this is a bit down the road, right now they are just reeling in pain. This is a cruel blow to her, and not a fair one. Somehow, wise women even tho they have endured such pain, know they have to lay their pain down, step aside from it, and become the individual that will mend these two together your DS and your DDL.
Perhaps now "the muffin" you will also find out more of the why of his estrangement, perhaps he has in his own way been confused, embarrassed and saddened by this relationship and has not wanted you tainted by it. We never know what is happening in the minds of others.
You have my thoughts, my prayers, and I am so happy Tara posted the stages of Grief.
Please keep us knowing where you are in your feelings and thoughts, as I feel I want to be there for you. I hope you get to give you son a hug soon as what he said to you this am was a huge over the phone hug, it basically is, Mom I love you, and I want this right, I don't know where things can go, but I want things right and for this not to happen with us. You are blessed, he does have a heart, a beautiful heart just waiting for you. Hugs to you....
Ahhh, Donna that's just what I heard too. I heard "I love you, mom." I also thought just what you wrote, he does have a heart. I was truly in doubt.
This day is dragging by and I've done almost nothing at work. I am anxious and scared to get home tonight. Yes, I will hug DS. I know FDIL will not be there, but if she did come and if she allowed, I would hug her too. I would even apologize for any misunderstandings and tell her that as always, I want whoever my DS loves to be a part of my family too. I want her to know that we will support her any way we can. But I also know that that both of us are going to have issues with sincerity. For a while she pretended to like me, and perhaps I pretended to like her. Or maybe we really did like each other, but allowed ourselves to forget when things got rocky. We are going to be confused, but I'm willing to try.
Maybe DS and I can communicate again and find out what tore us apart. But I have a feeling that there really isn't a real reason. One of those things that don't make sense. Perhaps we can both agree on that.
Thanks Donna, You are a gift to this site.
I am so happy you are looking forward to hugging DS. If and when DDIL is there, maybe just let her talk first, and you listen. A new beginning with listening and understanding where she is at under all of the confusion that will be coming her way is probably a wise way to go. Be there support her, but listen. As she talks she will be setting herself the parameters of your future relationship, as you can respond accordingly. If she reaches out and wants your love and care, as she probably will, be there, but i would have her reach out.
I think what I am saying is that under the circumstance of what happened, it's a big big lesson, and there is no sense to apologize or go over old wounds, as the suicide becomes part of that. My thoughts would be to listen and move forward in a manner that reflects what you want and how you want.
This becomes a new chapter, there are so many dynamics involved around a suicide, it's just best you listen, and follow what your heart and your son's heart speaks of.
With suicide and the many steps of grief, there is also the stage of anger and this is the stage I worry about with the DIL, as there will be someone she will have to lash out at, and I am praying it is not you. So by saying little and listening lots, you are less of a target, or so I am hoping. Just be re-assuring, and open.
Oh my muffin she is going to have so much to get off her shoulders, I hope you have a big big bag to put it all in, and then you can tuck it away safe in some corner and prayerfully forget it's there offering sunshine only in your lives.
Day by day.......this is a whole new journey for you.......let us keep you strong, and hopefully let us guide you wisely, for this is truly a most difficult path ... kind of reminds me of years ago when we would have autograph books. "Life is like a path of freshly fallen snow, be careful how you tread it for every step will show"......
I send you strength, courage, and faith along with tons of hugs.
Donna, thank you for your wise words and support. ow o We arrived home about 7 pm and I called DS to let him know. He said he didn't think he could make it tonight. He said that FDIL hasn't arrived home yet (still notifying family) and that when she returned they were going to tell the youngest son. I asked and he said he was okay. I knew this was draining him. I told him I loved him and that I was here when he needed me. He said "I love you, momma".
I worked a bit in the garden and prayed that that family was somehow holding it together.
You are so right about just leaving the past alone and starting a fresh chapter. I don't blame to discuss what happened or how he treated me and how much it hurt me. I hope that when it is right that we can just communicate about what we want and need from each other in the future. For me it would be consideration, appreciation, love and respect, but not necessarily in that order. I suppose he would want the same as well as his space and me staying out of his personal life no matter how wrong I may think his actions.
I don't know how this experience will affect FDIL. It may just taint her even more against allowing herself to trust the adults in her life. I would hope that it force her to reevaluate the value of life and what is important, as it seems son is doing. But she's been thru so much today, I can't imagine that she's thinking much about mending our relationship at this time at all. Perhaps with time I will be able to hug her and once again try to let her know that I would love who ever he loves.
Thanks again Donna. Your support and that of the other Wise Women on this forum has sustained me thru this terrible day.
Feeling the hugs
Quote from: themuffin on May 25, 2011, 06:10:32 PM
Feeling the hugs
Here's mine, (((((Muffin))))) & when you have the opportunity, give fdil a collective hug on our behalf. Hopefully, she, too, can feel the love.
You're all in my thoughts, Muffin~
Hugging you back, Rose. :)
As soon as I hit the post button the door bell rang. It was DS. We hugged each other long and hard. It felt sincere. His dad and brother were at the gym so it was just me and him. OS came down, but he still doesn't want to forgive. He didn't say a word. And yes, he knows what happened.
Anyway, he was alone and I was a bit relieved. It may have been a little too much emotion if FDIL had been there. DS and I held hands as we talked. We talked a bit about what happened and how the family was doing. We talked about us. He said that this scared him and that he didn't want to think of anything happening to either of us and we weren't on good terms. He said that he needs for me and FDIL to get along because we are the two most important people in his life. He said that he's going to talk to her and hope that she's willing to have a relationship. He admitted that he knows she has her issues, and that she takes the smallest things over the top. This is how she is, he says and he needs me to understand this about her and be accepting and patient of it. He also said that it was her that said that he should call me. I asked him if that was the only reason why he called me and he said, No, he was going to, but she also said he should.
I told DS that he knows I was good to her the entire time she was here and we were getting along until the incident where I told him he had to leave. He agreed that I did treat her well, but she was hurt and she lashes out when she's hurt. I told him that she called the first names when she called me a liar and a thief. He said he knows I don't lie and steal and that she was wrong, but again she was hurt.
I told son how hurt I was that he angrily threw me away like I was trash. That he looked at me and spoke to me without any love in his heart. He said he was sorry and that he handled that wrong. He said that he should not have taken sides, but at the time all he could think was that she was his future and he had to protect that. He apologized several times.
I told him that I was willing to leave the past in the past and that if she was willing I would like for us all to try to have a relationship again. I reminded him that I would love whoever he loves and that all I want is for him to be happy. If she wants that too, than I don't see why we have any problems. He agreed. He said he just wants for us to get along, he wants his family to be whole. He said he wants to be able to come by with the grandchildren and have BBQs, and sometimes leave them over when he and FDIL want to go out. He said he wants them to have a grandmother.
So tonight we took our first steps. We hugged again before he left. I asked him to tell FDIL and family how sorry I was. I told him to call if there was anything I could do. And with that my DS got into his car and drove away.
Oh, and he didn't ask to come home, or for any money. He didn't even want anything to eat or drink. He said he's got another job, currently works 80 hours a week so that he can provide the things he and FDIL needs. I don't like that he seems to running on empty, but he's determined. He said that he and FDIL are thinking of buying a home and they each need a car. Oh and he got his first tattoo, "I am what I am" on his inner arm. This was something dad and I were against, but we knew when he was of age he would do what he wants. It doesn't look too bad. I guess we all are what we are.
Hugs and love
"the muffin" I am glad you are at this point in today....and that you have spoken with DS and both of you said those most important words, I love you.
I pray you sleep well tonight. Nothing can be done about what has happened, it is set - done; no sense getting in a tither about the future, don't know what it's going to be - so enjoy the moment the words with DS and go to sleep hearing him say, "I love you, Momma."
Day by day.
To "the muffin" First Steps - wow wow wow - those were giant leaps and bounds girl. I am so thrilled for you, and you got so many answers. FDIL will be okay in the future, it is so good to hear that she asked him to call, she validates her true feelings for you, and he also validates to you how she reacts, so in the future, with what he told you, things will change, he has brought about awareness.
I am so glad you said, you will leave the past in the past, that was so wonderful and loving of you.
I can relate very well to his tatoo - I am what I am - be cool with it, it's his body, his decision. Not something I would do to my body, but today it is a different world.
I am so over the moon for you, just so over the moon. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall to see that hug you two had. OS will come around - let things rest there, let him choose his time. DS has just grown up in leaps and bounds.
Wow, talking about barbques, you babysitting, you deserve every little bit, and here is one more hug for the road.
I am so very very happy for you "themuffin" also in realizing this is born from a very sad event - but in all clouds there is some kind of silver lining.
DS has truly made some great strides, and part of this was you're telling them to leave, as difficult as it has been it was probably the most loving thing you did for him, as his perspective on life has changed dramatically.
Feel that warmth, you are but blessed.
Thanks for sharing, Muffin. It sounds like that boy you were once so close to is working hard on becoming a man. He loves you, Muffin, & he loves fdil. If not, he wouldn't be putting in those 80 hours... I truly hope things come together for you all.
Muffin,
Glad you and you son have broken the ice and begun to reconnect.
blessings
Donna,
I like that quote on a recent post: "Happiness is a form of Courage"
Thank you Tara - love your religion - kindness.....it is the best, and this is a good day for "the muffin". Glad you like the quote, no idea where it came from, but I truly like it. Thank you.
Quote from: Donna on May 25, 2011, 11:33:37 AM
"Life is like a path of freshly fallen snow, be careful how you tread it for every step will show"......
I like this quote...so true~
Muffin.........this might sound harsh ,but some good has come from this tragedy. It made your DS imagine life without you which he couldn't imagine .Raking over old coals is too painful .I am so happy for you ,you have your son.back ,I know that feeling . Sending strong vibes to your family to help you over the next few days.You will feel stronger now your family is reunited gaining support from each other ..... long may it last .
Dear The Muffin
I was going to say the same as LL, sad but sometimes good things result from tragedies. All the people involved learned lessons.....and realize that sometimes we complicate our lives with small issues, and life can be so short.
Your son came back to you....wanting a loving relationship. He knew all the way that he could always count on you because you love him dearly....he didnt hesitate to call you...he needed you. There will be much sadness in fdil's family, but you now have the opportunity to make things better. Be there for fdil...she needs you. She might learn from this experience (among other things) that she is lovable regardless of her character and insecurities.
May God bless you all
Love
Good Morning ladies!!!!
Thank you so much for helping me thru yesterday. It was a day like no other.
Thanks so much for all of your hugs and kind words of wisdom, Donna. I did sleep well last night. Better than I have in a long time. I actually woke up feeling refreshed. My heart still aches for them, but LL and another L lady stated, something good came from something very bad. I truly wish it didn't have to happen this way, but since it did at least one positive thing came from it.
Quote from: Rose799 on May 25, 2011, 08:06:34 PM
Quote from: Donna on May 25, 2011, 11:33:37 AM
"Life is like a path of freshly fallen snow, be careful how you tread it for every step will show"......
I like this quote...so true~
I love that quote as well. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I will have to pass it on. ;)
DS explained that FDIL is still feeling very guilty because she and her older brother had double teamed dad with a hate filled tirade. DS said that FDIL had told him that he was, "Nothing, garbage, and worthless." That is weighing heavily on her conscience. But she also learned that prior to the incident her dad was having a spat with his GF. It seems they were arguing and he stepped outside onto their porch. However, they continued the argument via texting. At some point he came back into the house, gave GF all of his ID and went back out on the porch. A few minutes later GF heard the "pop" and went out and discovered him laying on the porch. He survived for a short time at he hospital and FDIL and the family got to see him before he departed this earth. I pray that she got the chance to tell him she didn't mean it and that she loved him.
You see, this man wasn't her biological dad, but he was the only dad she ever knew (I didn't know this until later). That says a lot about him. Only special men love and raise the child of another as their own. Sadly, he thought the grass was greener on the other side as so many do, and he left them when FDIL was about 18. FDIL loved him and she felt deeply hurt and betrayed as he seemed to detach more and more from her and her siblings lives. Every broken promise, every missed date, every lacking gift fueled her hurt and anger. FDIL's mom had already moved on and has been remarried for over a year and is expecting. But FDIL although she was almost grown resented how hurt the younger ones were when he didn't keep his word. Thus, all of the hate filled words. I know she didn't mean them, and I'm sure he knows she didn't mean them. I just hope she can forgive herself.
One step at a time, one day at a time.....
Hugs
Muffin, I'm so sorry about this tragedy. I'm glad your son reached out to you and I'm glad you reached out to DIL.
However, please don't take offense if DIL doesn't reply or don't take it personally if she replies negatively to your text. Her grief is just too big right now.
Also, I just want to tell you that when my Dad died, I needed some space from my IL's. I was VERY angry with them ... okay ... I was actually angry with God, because the "good Gpa" died. I was angry with my IL's for not being more like my Dad. It took me a while to get over it and I'm glad that we didn't have any interactions with them in the meantime, because I know it was irrational, but it didn't change the way I felt.
I know your DIL is not quite in the same situation, but she may have a feeling of "Why do we get another chance with the IL's? I will never have another chance with my Dad!"
Also, I would like to re-iterate that you should NOT even imply that she should feel guilty because the last words she said to her Dad were unkind. Don't even bring it up to DS like "you never know, I might die tomorrow and wouldn't you want your last words to me to be sweet?" Because if she does feel guilty, it won't take much for her to feel like you're poking her soft spots.
I know that you come here to get it out and I appreciate that, I just want to point out that it shouldn't spill out (not even a little bit) around her.
Good luck, take care.
I think Muffin knows she has a second chance with her family and has been thrown a lifeline .She is going to hang on for dear life and not chance losing it again .
Quote from: themuffin on May 25, 2011, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: elsieshaye on May 25, 2011, 09:57:33 AM
Quote from: themuffin on May 25, 2011, 09:15:20 AMAnd even if she doesn't feel it's her fault that he did it, she still has to live with knowing that her last words to him were cruel and hateful. She can never change that.
Please be careful to never, ever say this to her. She may very well not feel that her words were cruel and hateful, depending on what her past experiences with him were. My father and I had some serious, vicious blowouts, and we both gave as good as we got. My father saw any kind of softness or restraint as a weakness to be exploited, and only respected me when I used a sledgehammer. He was not hurt by a single thing I said, even though most other people would have been. Has she ever said to you or DS that she feels what she said was cruel and hurtful, or is this your assessment? Either way, let this thought go, and just focus on being a soft, nonjudgemental place for both of them to land.
Oh Dear NO!!! I would never, say or imply EVER that her words were cruel and hurtful. If ever given the opportunity to talk to her about this I would allow her to do the talking. I would reassure her that it was his choice and not her fault. If she did mention that she said cruel things, I would further reassure her that she wasn't at fault and that many children sometimes say mean things to their parents. I would tell her that I know he knew she loved him because even I knew she loved him.
DS told me this morning that she feels personally responsible because of the things she said. She feels that she pushed him over the edge. I wish I was just assuming. That is why my heart hurts so badly for her.
Hi Scoop,
Thanks for taking the time to other your thoughts. I just wanted to insert my quote so that you and others would see that I have already addressed that I would NEVER imply that FDIL said or did anything that may have contributed to this.
I also would not take offense if she didn't contact me or did in a angry way. This is a very difficult and emotional situation. It's not about me at all. I just wanted to let her know that I cared. She has far more important things to deal with rather than thinking of responding to me. I'm an outsider in all this. She would need time in the best of situations, I imagine she'll need even more with this situation.
I don't know what she is thinking about "chances". I don't consider our situation about another chance. She's not giving us another chance. We don't need one. That implies that we've done something, failed, and she's allowing us to try again. I do not believe that's the case. I believe that there have been mis-communications and misunderstandings on both sides and that because of this tragedy we should try to make amends for the sake of all involved. The bottom line is that she loves DS and I love DS. Having us at odds is hurtful to DS. Wouldn't it best if we could all try to resolve whatever issues we have so that we can all be happy?
Scoop, I was never mean, or cruel to FDIL. I didn't put her down, talk down to her, try to run her life, or make her feel that she wasn't good enough for my DS or my family. I tried very hard to get her to like me. She was determined for a long time that I was some kind of evil phony. After DS hurt her and I was supportive of her and not him, she said that she was wrong about me and that she had grown to care for me. However, just as soon as DS and I had our issues, she was against me all over again.
Scoop wrote "Don't even bring it up to DS like "you never know, I might die tomorrow and wouldn't you want your last words to me to be sweet?" Because if she does feel guilty, it won't take much for her to feel like you're poking her soft spots." This kind of made me nauseous. I would never use this kind of manipulation. I hope this isn't the kind of IL's you have, if so I truly empathize.
I would like to have a relationship with FDIL. She needs to understand that we are not in competition. I am his mother, not the other woman. She told me that she has him and I don't. That's something you say to the OW. When FDIL learns that we both can love him and that he can love us both I think all of our issues will be resolved.
THANKS LL. That one sentence really sums it up.
themuffin, I hope things work with your son and FDIL. She sounds like she is full of resentments and I have seen some people treat a death as "Someone else left me again". I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think you need to be cautious that she doesn't make you the target of the hostility that she vented on her father. Hopefully someone can convince her to get some counseling, and then she can move forward without so much hostility in her heart. All the best of luck, I know the next few days will be very difficult.
I am so glad your visit with DS went well. It sounds like you both got to say what you needed to and are willing to move on now. I hope when FDIL works through her grief that she will be willing to start a new relationship as well. My best wishes and thoughts to you muffin as you work through this situation.
Thank you Rose799 and thank you for your great inspiration.
Quote from: Keys Girl on May 26, 2011, 08:03:44 AM
themuffin, I hope things work with your son and FDIL. She sounds like she is full of resentments and I have seen some people treat a death as "Someone else left me again". I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think you need to be cautious that she doesn't make you the target of the hostility that she vented on her father. Hopefully someone can convince her to get some counseling, and then she can move forward without so much hostility in her heart. All the best of luck, I know the next few days will be very difficult.
This is really good advice. I have seen that too, when the hostility hasn't been worked out -- it just shifts somewhere else.
You're in my thoughts TheMuffin.
Yes, I agree. TheMuffin, your FDIL may also be envious of the blossoming relationship between you and DS & now that she's lost her dad under horrific circumstances that feeling may escalate. IMO you may want to include her in everything for awhile so she doesn't feel separate from you two.
Thanks Pooh! I am glad DS and I talked, too. I also hope that FDIL is able to work thru her grief and that we can all just start anew. Thank you for your well wishes.
Hi Keys Girl, You aren't raining on my parade. You are right that I need to be cautious of FDIL. DS did say that the entire family was going for counseling. I'm glad about that. I asked DS if he was going too, but he said he was okay. I told him that he had also just gone thru a very traumatic experience and maybe it would help if he talked to someone about it. He seemed as if he'd think about it.
As much as I would like to have a relationship with FDIL (I always imagined I would be adored and I would adore my DIL) it is not a high priority for me. If we can be cordial and civil to each other I would be fine with that. I told DS that she is his choice and that she and I don't have to make each other happy, the only thing that counts is that they make each other happy.
I told DS that I was glad that he reached out to me but I wish this had never happened. I told him I knew we would speak again in the future. He said he did too, and he even had the date. I asked him when thinking it would be on our shared b'day. But DS said that he planned to do it after Xmas, and make it his new year's resolution to mend our relationship. I said, "gee, that's a long time." I guess he saw that I was a bit dismayed so he said the planned to text me on special occasions, like our birthday, lol
"themuffin" Today is a new day, thought of you last night, and of course am thinking of you this AM, and hope you had a good sleep Wishing you kindness for the day, hope you concentrate on the big hug and the warmth you shared last night. Hugs and luv..
Thank you, Donna. I consider you a treasured gift. You are truly a Blessing.
Hugs back at you!
ADIL, DS and FDIL both needed counseling even before this. I don't know what this is going to do to FDIL. She was already emotionally wounded. I hope this isn't a breaking point for her. I'm sure DS will try to do what's best for her, but it's completely out of my hands. They are both adults.
You are so correct on this "themuffin" but encouragement along the way helps, and DS will be coming to you for direction. This is a tragic episode to have happen, however out of all it gave your son a boost of growth and I believe also FDIL.
In reading your post below, and DS is planning on Christmas, what I believe I am hearing is I've already lost so much time with my mom and this Christmas is going to be special and my New Year's Resolution is going to change all that has gone awry. Not only now is he wanting to make it a mended relationship, but this young man is thinking far ahead, he has a conscious thought process, you are very blessed.
Reading back and this truly amazes me, I honestly believe DS was protecting you from FDIL bursts of rage. I believe you have a lovely son, and the future holds a lot of good things. It's unfortunate how it came about, but lessons in life are sometimes learned through misfortune. Some learn, and some never get it.
Counseling will help, however it takes a lot for counseling to get through, as there are many issues at play. Grief counseling is one thing, personal growth is another; and the grief counsellor most likely will recognize issues and lay the plans for future counseling, or so I pray.
Bless you "themuffin" you are a sweet tart (sweet heart) today (LMDAO) (Laughing My Dentures Are Out)
Good morning Wise Women!
Well, here's the update. DS texted me yesterday that if FDIL were to ask I should not tell her that I know how her dad killed himself. I immediately knew something was up so I texted back, "Sure, but why does it matter?" DS, "It just does." Me, "That's a bad sign. Is she mad? Don't worry, I'll never mention it." I didn't get another text until two hours later. DS, "Yes she's mad cuz not 2 long ago u text her and told her no 1 loves her and now dis hpn nd she don't want u 2 throw it in her face." I couldn't text back to that, I called him. I told him that I never told FDIL nobody loved her. Why would I do that? How do I know who loves her. Show me the text! So 20 minutes later I get the text. This is what I wrote. My son was loved and would not say such things. U cried when U said nobody loved u. I wanted to love u but now i c y."
I wrote that after receiving some VERY nasty text from her, calling me everything from a thief to a liar to a drunk. Not to mention being told she won my son and I didn't have him anymore and that I would never see the grandchildren. And yes I admit my text says that I understood why she was so hard to love, but it was FDIL and not me that said nobody loved her. And when she said this she was a sad and pitiful sight. She sat on my couch rocking in a ball of pain, just crying and whining, asking why nobody loved her, why did everybody throw her away. She said her mother threw her away, her father threw her away. Everyone she loved just threw her away. This was said after she found out that DS had another girlfriend. She said she told DS how everyone else in her life had hurt her and she asked him to please not hurt her.I held her and I comforted her and I let her cry. I told her that she was loved and that the people that mistreated her were wrong. I told her that DS wasn't worthy of her love and that she deserved to be loved better. I was so upset to DS for hurting her like that. This is when I went to DS and begged him to please let her go if he doesn't love her. I told him it was wrong to hurt her and hold on to her if he didn't truly love her.
Anyway, I told DS to read the text. I told him I didn't say nobody loved her, she did. I reminded him that about the incident. He remembered.
I told my DS that I loved him, but I could tell that this is not going to work. She's just too filled with anger and I can't let her make me unhappy. I said she's your future, not mind. You should love her and she should love you, but we just aren't going to get along. I told him that I'm his mother and I always will be and I will always love him, but not to worry I won't bug him very much.
I later sent him what will be my last text on the subject. I told him that I wanted him to remember that I was good to FDIL. And I listed some of the many things I did for her never asking or expecting anyting in return. I told him that I tried really hard to be good to her and that I don't think I could have been any nicer. I told him that I know that we are going to drift apart, but that I loved him and I wanted him to be happy. I wrote that I wasn't mad at FDIL but that I felt sorry for her because she's a wounded, sad and angry girl. I also said that if the worst thing she can say about me is I'm a drunk, a liar and thief than I feel pretty good about that, because we all know that's not true. I just told him to be happy.
This doesn't end my relationship with my DS, it's just giving him his space to have his own life. FDIL won't allow us to be close, but I'm okay with that as long as I know he's happy and that he loves me.
Donna's was the most wonderful son for many years of his life. He changed when he entered middle school. He was still just as sweet and loving on the outside, but he had some issues going on (stealing and lying). When we moved to our new home in a different town and he had to do one more year of HS, the school staff would actually call me and thank me for allowing such a wonderful young man attend their school! He was truly special on the outside. But DS has his demons on the inside. I'm not saying he's a terrible person, but he has some serious personalities flaws. He lies about things that it simply makes no sense to lie about. And he's not good at it. He's gotten caught in many lies and has lost mostly all of his friends. He doesn't have any long term friendships. Once people find him out they leave the friendship. He talks badly about everyone. He thinks he's impressing people when he's dishing the dirt, but many found this to be a very negative character flaw and they would tell the person who he had said negative things about, ie: his brother, his best friend, other friends. He also made up stories to make himself seem more interesting. He would tell lies to get sympathy especially to girls. They felt sorry for him and well....you know.
Anyway, DS is not all that lovely. Part of the reason FDIL disliked me instantly is because DS told her I was phony, controlling, nosey, and a border line incestuous pedophile. I think I would have had some dislike toward my MIL if my DH had told me things like that as well. So he's almost as much to blame.
Well, that's it for now. I still feel good about me and DS. Not too concerned about FDIL at the moment. Even in this time of grief she wants to still be angry.
OMG, she just called me. I didn't pick up. I just called DS and asked if she wanted to be mean to me because I can't take it. I just want to enjoy this long weekend. My heart is racing. He said he'll call her right now. She left a voicemail but I'm too afraid to listen to it.
(((TheMuffin))) I was afraid this would happen. She sounds extremely angry and that anger has to go somewhere. You handled this so well, I'm terribly impressed.
About your son, he reminds me of someone I know with borderline personality disorder. I'm not a fan of labeling people but you might want to google it for more of an understanding.
Stay strong.
She is definateley looking to lash out at someone right now and you are an easy target for her. Stay strong, you are doing the right thing. She has to come to grips with her life right now and what has just happened.
Muffin,
I'm going to share something with you. I got into a fight with a friend of mine and blogged about her in a really nasty way. I sent out quizzes on MySpace attacking her because of her political views. I was 24 at the time. Really immature and stupid. And I learned the hard way there are some things you just can't take back.
Her husband was killed two days later in a helicopter crash along with several of our other friends. I called her from a phone booth and told her how sorry I was for her loss. She was also pregnant at the time. I apologized for my behavior. It doesn't matter what she said to me in the fight, because at that time, no matter what she did to me, I hurt her. Even if I thought she hurt me more, it didn't matter. I was sorry for what I did, no matter what she did to me or what she was going through.
Naturally, she hung up on me. I gave her space. Lots of it. She eventually called me 8 months later before her baby was due and we both apologized about the fight, which had nothing to do with her husband.
She was already angry at me to begin with, and then, no matter the circumstances, angry with the world. I was a big part of the bad she saw in the world at that time.
If I had the security issues your FDIL has and confided in you at the time as someone I trusted, and then receive a text message like that...I think I would need a good long while to cool off. I would feel as if I confided in you and it was thrown in my face. I realize her 2 page text message was awful and instigated your response, but you put a spotlight on a feeling that she has to quell every single day. I think you would be one more person I couldn't trust for a little while. Not saying that whatever she did is right, but I'm just saying that pain is so heightened for her right now, and like it or not, you were a part of previous pain for her. I also think that given her grieving process, anger is totally expected. And, maybe, she doesn't need anyone to feel sorry for her. "Wounded, sad and angry" aren't what I want to hear about myself when I'm in turmoil. I want to hear that I'm a fighter and that I'm angry but it'll pass and that I'm strong and confident enough to beat this. I would think given the cirumstnaces, her life might depend on hearing that, and surrounding herself with positive people who can do that for her seems prudent.
I'm not trying to be harsh, I just think that right now, the loss of her father and the mannger in which it happened is a bigger problem than what is going on, or not going on between the two of you.
I totally agree with Holly. The nice text you sent her the other day was good, but I think at this point, initiating anymore contact will just anger her right now.
And let me add, that's not your fault, just circumstances right now. You have been great in how you have been handling everything.
Hi Holly,
That was such a sad story. So sorry it happened, but glad that you both were able to heal in the end.
About DIL...for weeks I texted FDIL affirmations. "You are beautiful", "You are loved" You are FABULOUS" etc. every morning. I brought her home gifts "just because". I even allowed her to bore me to death while she gushed over shoes and dresses. I even let her give me a lecture in my own home on snooping in my own home. When DS was told that he and FDIL had to leave, I tried to contact FDIL because we were on good terms. I wasn't throwing her intot he street. Her family had just moved into a new home and she was supposed to go with them anyway. She had decided she would rather stay just a week earlier. We agreed and she was to pay $20. I was going to tell her why she would need to go home as previously planned and that I was sorry. She rejected all my calls, later learned DS told her to. She's not the type that listens to DS. She wears the pants. The very next day she was ten shades of nasty. Called me and harassed me at work no less. My comment wasn't any more or less nurturing than the trash being thrown at me. She didn't confide in me. We weren't haven't a heart to heart in that sense. We weren't exchanging secrets and I betrayed her confidence. Still, I see where you are coming from. However, I think it says a lot about her that she would disregard all of the many, loving, giving postive things I did and latch onto one thing that wasn't loving.
DS just called and said it was safe to listen to the message. Why don't I trust it?
TheMuffin, I think when people are so chronically angry like that, they often take out their anger on safe people. Sounds backwards but think about it, she has no real fear of you so it's safer to unload anger on you. To get that angry in life she must have been in very scary situations with scary people in some form or fashion. She's progressed from a victim to a bully, she learned that from somewhere. Bullies pick on safer people, they don't pick on people their own size. KWIM?
You're a safe and kind person, an easy target for her.
It's sad and especially tragic at a time like this but I think a person with those type of unresolved issues cannot really be helped until they are willing. She's not willing right now.
ummmm....gosh. I've got tears in my eyes. I listened to the message. She made me want to hug her and tell her how sorry I was that we are at odds. In her grief she called and left a message asking me to please not stop talking to me my son. Saying it was a misunderstanding and she was angry. But just pleading that I not take it out of DS. Her tone was so caring, she must truly love DS. I tried to call her and just say thank you and I was going to say so sorry for everything, but my number is restricted on her phone. Her's is restricted on mine as well. I could call her from my job phone, but I'm scared of leaping too much on her too soon.
I'm so touched by her message. I was so angry with her yesterday, and today I just want to hug and try to make this all work.
What a roller coaster for you, TM. Please take care of yourself. You are wise to be concerned about not rushing in.
Quote from: Pen on May 27, 2011, 08:04:33 AM
What a roller coaster for you, TM. Please take care of yourself. You are wise to be concerned about not rushing in.
Sorry, off topic -"TM" Trade Mark, lol. ;D Okay, back to topic. I sent FDIL text message which isn't rejected by her phone. This is what I wrote:
U made me cry...in a good way. Don't worry urself about me and "DS". We will be fine. At a time like this you need to take care of u. I appreciate your message so much. I have behaved badly and I am sorry."
what do you guys think?
I think that's excellent! Way to go trade mark!
LOL Pooh.
Thanks for the feedback. Well, me being me, just had to call using my office phone. It's not blocked. She answered and I told her that I just wanted to tell her thank you and that it meant so much to me and really touched my heart. I said I really, really appreciated it and that I was so sorry for everything. She said you're welcome and she thanked me and that was it.
I feel good about it.
Muffin,
I wrote a long message to you and in the meantime many were posted that i agree with. Holly's points are very well taken.
I encourage you to stay out of the middle of any of the pain, suffering and drama right now and try to be neutral loving MIL/M
to ds and dil keeping the focus off you as much as possible. I also agree with Pams statements.
Is it possible to get a crisis intervention session with a therapist?
oops, I meant to say: stay out of the middle of ALL the pain, suffering and drama.
Hi Tara,
I also agree with Pam. Thanks Pam. You made some very valid points. Although FDIL have called a minor truce now I know that the rollercoaster ride is not over. She may be angry all over again tomorrow.
I am comfortable with where we are now and intend to give both DS and FDIL their space. I will take their calls if they call, but I won't be calling them. I take comfort that DS will reach out to me if he needs me. Right now I need to let them lean on each other and deal together with the first biggest crisis of their relationship. This is between the two of them. DS is behaving like a responsible adult now and I am proud of him. I will respect him and treat him as such.
Thank you all for every comment. I appreciate them. And Holly, I have to say that I never thought of the impact that comment I made had on FDIL. You made me see it thru her eyes. Although, at the time I was hurt and angry and didn't think it was the most vicious thing I could have said, reading your comment made me believe that it was perhaps worst than any name I could have ever called her. That is why I felt the need to apologize to her repeatedly. Thanks for showing me what I didn't really see before.
Holly, I forgot one other thing. I didn't tell FDIL she was wounded, sad and angry. I wrote that to DS. In writing it to DS and also writing that I was not mad at FDIL, I was not trying to come across as insulting, but instead...understanding. Now if I had texted FDIL that she was just wounded, sad and angry it would come across as insulting. That was not my intent.
Muffin, I knew you said that to DS. I also knew all of the wonderful things you had done for FDIL beforehand as well, so it wasn't like I wanted to single you out for that one text. I am fairly rational for the most part, but if I had to go through a situation such as this, I know I would not be rational. I think my point was that FDIL may be looking at all the bad at the moment, and none of the good. I'd also wager to say that she is having a perfectly normal reaction, and she needs people in her life that are not going to take her lashing out as her being a wounded angry person in general. They need to be able to take it for what it is: a mess of emotions that she just does not know what to do with. I think quite happy, well-adjusted people would have a reaction to this as she had...I also think that my relationship with my in-laws would be the aboslutely lowest of the low on my priority list at that time, if anything like this ever happened to me. Not because I don't like them, but because in comparison, one of my parents taking their life would be larger than life for me.
There is a possibility that she could get a hold of his phone to read that text, and there is also a possibility that he himself will tell her what you said. I think that is what I was afraid of, although I didn't say that in my post. People tell their SOs what parents say about them all the time. You also mentioned your son was not honest with her when he talked about you at first, so are you sure he wouldn't repeat that to her for some reason (any reason?)?
I think that the big picture is that this young woman lost her father in one of the most terrible ways imaginable. I've been reading your posts as you write them. Here's what I see: you bounce back and forth between saying this girl did awful things and saying that you're sorry for certain things you did to her, but you then say you were justified in doing what you did to her because what she did to you was worse. NONE of that matters right now. It is small and petty and useless, and it's not fair to her. I guarantee she picks up on your feelings about her, even if you would never say it to her.
I know this is an emotional time for you, but if there is one thing I think she needs in her life now, it is people who give her consistency. This is by far a more emotional time for her, and it seems like we are all forgetting that. Real, pure forgiveness (and not because she said sorry first, or left a nice but sad voicemail) might go a long way. It could also go a long way to help you heal as well. It might be the only thing you can do for her at this point.
Muffin, it sounds like there is a lot that has unraveled in the last few days and you've handled it all with grace. I am confused about one part though. I thought you said earlier that you texted FDIL after you heard and told her you were sorry for what had happened...did I imagine that? If that happened, then your DS said don't tell her you know her dad killed herself and you said "okay I won't," is confusing to me b/c I thought she already knew you knew. And when she called, it seems like she wasn't hiding what happened, so I'm confused. Didn't she know you knew since the day it happened?
Themuffin, just a small note, I would consider that everything you write to your son will be read by your FDIL. That's been my experience. Wishing you luck,
I think Muffin just sent a text saying sorry , she didn't mention why she said or sent it .
I just know that each of you are there to support the other , whichever and whoever , and hopefully
all past angers fade into insignificance through this terrible tragedy .
Muffin , you have let them know you are there for them , I think they will be in touch when they need
you .
Sending warmest wishes to you in this traumatic time .
Be wary too Muffin , that everything you send to Ds will be shown to Dil , and sometimes taken the wrong
way .Tread carefully .
Quote from: Keys Girl on May 27, 2011, 10:21:29 AM
Themuffin, just a small note, I would consider that everything you write to your son will be read by your FDIL. That's been my experience. Wishing you luck,
Me too
What ever happened to the idea of sending cards to people? In this circumstance, I would want to send FDIL a sweet note card - probably one that didn't have any message on it, but one where I could write whatever I wanted. I know that there were times in my life when receiving a card that I could put on my desk at work, or under my pillow, was very helpful.
Does that date me? Do young people do anything like that these days?
Hi Overwhelmed,
No you didn't misunderstand. I did send FDIL a message saying how sorry I was. DS asked me not to that that I knew how her father died. Which is why I asked him why does it matter.
Hi Holly,
This is a complex situation and emotionally draining. The reason there seems to be no consistency is because I don't always feel the same way. Remember, I wanted to love FDIL, I tried very hard. After we cleared the air she and I got along very well. She didn't do anything awful to me, nor did I do anything awful to her. We exchanged negative communications. This all just began right after DS and I had our incident those five or six weeks ago. I don't know if I used the words of feeling "justified", but I did imply that my actions were directly related to her actions. Meaning I wasn't the one who came out swinging, but yes I did fight back and for that I did apologize.
About picking up on my feelings about her, I don't know how she could because right now I don't know how I feel about her. When she lived with me my feelings were positive and I thought hers were the same. I was blindsided when she called me and began the name calling. We hadn't exchanged negative words of any kind prior to that. I felt as if she had been faking it the entire time and just wanted the reason to tell me off. So I don't know what kind of feelings she was suppose to pick up, there was nothing to say to her, even if I would never say it to her.
And yes, DS probably has let her read the text. I thought of that possibility when I wrote it. That's why I said that I wasn't angry with FDIL, and that I felt she was wounded, sad and angry. I didn't say she was a evil, selfish you know what. And the truth is, she is wounded, sad and angry. Even DS doesn't deny that. I know her life story, or at least what she's told me, and believe me she has a reason to feel wounded, sad and angry. Apparently, she did not take offense by it, because it was the last message I sent to DS and thus today I got the nice phone message.
And you are right, none of this matters right now, but I think I already implied that.
"I know this is an emotional time for you, but if there is one thing I think she needs in her life now, it is people who give her consistency. This is by far a more emotional time for her, and it seems like we are all forgetting that. Real, pure forgiveness (and not because she said sorry first, or left a nice but sad voicemail) might go a long way. It could also go a long way to help you heal as well. It might be the only thing you can do for her at this point"
I don't think anyone has forgotten about what FDIL is going thru. This is ALL about her and her pain and how sorry everyone on this post has conveyed, including myself. I put myself out there just to let her know that regardless of our petty differences (and I tell you I DON'T know why we are fighting!!!) I still care and am so sorry for her pain. Oh, and she never said sorry first. I did. And not because I felt I was more wrong than she, but because I wanted to do the right thing and take the first steps to fix this. Her voicemail wasn't "nice and sad" it was selfless. In her time of grief she was thinking of DS. It must have upset him that she was upset with me, so in order to help him she reached out to me. I was touched by the love she showed for him.
And with that I better get some work done.
Hugs
Ohhhh...okay. Makes much more sense now. Sorry I didn't get it! I didn't get much sleep last night!
LOL, LL. No problem. I didn't sleep well last night either. My cocker spaniel kept having nightmares and was crying in his sleep. Poor baby. :(
Opps, I met OW!!! see, we are both tired! :P
Seasons- I'm "young" and I love sending cards. I do it all the time, and I prefer not to send personal matters over texts either. I think this was just the easiest, quickest way for Muffin to communicate at this time. But I don't think any of my friends really send handwritten cards. I don't know why, but I do think it's kinda sad.
I wasn't blaming you for inconsistency, Muffin. I just said it was there and not helpful to a girl that has apparently nothing consistent in her life at the moment.
Hi Seasons,
I missed your comment, sorry. Overwhelmed answered your question exactly as I would have for me! THANKS OW!!
It was just the tragic circumstances that made me send the text. I wanted to reach out to her right away and I didn't dare call. I did not want to waste time getting a card and sending it thru the mail. This is the woman my DS says he's going to marry. She had just learned her dad was dead. I needed her to know that I cared. It simply couldn't wait. I have considered sending a card, but will let my heart guide me on this over the weekend. It may be too much and I don't want to overwhelm her at this time.
Hi Holly,
I didn't think you were pointing blame. :D It's not my intention to bring any inconsistency to FDIL's life, especially at a time like this. I only sent the one text of condolence. I had no intention of contacting her again during this tragic time. I don't know if I ever planned to contact her again as she had asked me not to. I know this is not about me and she has far more important, deep things on her mind. This was not an attempt to mend our relationship, this was simply to express sorrow for her pain. Period. My heart needed to do that and I was going to leave it at that.
Hi Muffin,
Your hanging in there and doing well in trying to integrate all our different feedback.
One suggestion if I haven't said it already is to be incredibly careful of what you say to dear son about dil, now and
forever, but especially now when there is alot of trauma. Theres a likely chance that it will get back to her just like
Keys Girls mentioned about text messages.
(((hugs)))
Thanks Tara, I appreciate the support and feedback.
When DS came over I expessed nothing but sincere concern for FDIL and her family. DS and I are trying to mend our relationship. Nothing would be worst than to bad mouth FDIL at this time. I already told him that I would be willing to forget the past and try if she wanted to try. I sincerely meant it. I have not said bad things about FDIL as I know that would be the quickest way to send DS out the door.
Wow - I said a prayer for you last night, but it was to bring you peacefulness, and enlightenment. You have addressed many issues here and for almost all of the feedback you have received, I am hearing take care of yourself, protect yourself, don't stick you neck out, or it's going to get chopped off.
The roller coaster ride has "just begun". DS contacted you and you have contacted him back, however in his contact there was negativity, and again "don't ask how it happened"; which definitely indicated FDIL has now even more issues as she must feel an unbelievable amount of shame pertaining to the way her father chose to leave this world.
FDIL needs a lot of time, previously from what you said, she was rocking on your couch and saying no one loved her, everyone leaves her, this girl needs a therapist who is willing to go deep, as there is no magic bullet to change what and how she feels about how people have treated her in the past, and her reactions to it. She suffers from very low self-esteem, and this partnered with what you describe DS is an explosive relationship.
In emotional bidding there is a ying and yang that goes on. I feel your tug at her text, and your need to text back and then phone, but my advice would be "stop" now.........no more. The more words out there, the more swords out there, you are not dealing with a full deck at the moment, you are dealing with so many negative emotions and hurt feelings and lack of self esteem, you stand no chance. Keep you line of communication open to DS, but I would refrain from the past words spoken, and lead him into the direction of a new beginning.
Muffin, I would also stop apologizing. Apologies are wonderful when recognized, buried, and people move forward, but when you are in a position that you are consistently apologizing for the same thing, there is no forward movement, you are still stuck in the mud, and then it becomes a choice as to whether you want to stay in that mud, or step out on the side, where it's a lot easier to walk and move.
I don't like to say this, but in many ways, you are going to wear every bit of her grief, her anger, and her distrust if you allow it to happen. There is six months to a year, of sending well thoughts, good wishes, but I would be avoiding conversations, and honestly I believe texting is dangerous, as texting is truly up to how a person perceives what they read. You almost have to be an articulate writer, to ensure what you text is what you are meaning. In most cases it works, but when you are dealing with people with emotions that are all over the place especially in the war zone, it's dangerous, as it is about interpretation. Emails often can do the same thing.
The reality is, FDIL has to go through the grieving process as does your DS with her, they both need counseling. For your own sanity, you know DS loves you, so keep it simple - don't get over involved.
I know I sound so harsh, but "themuffin" you have much to live for and you don't need the next year to be a field of land mines, and that is the direction this will go in.
FDIL has choices in all of this, if she chooses to be with DS even tho he had another GF, it is her choice, if she chooses to use her path she has lived as a weapon, she chooses to be her own victim, this is far too deep for you to mitigate, and believe me I feel deeply for FDIL, however it is not you that can heal her with with hugs, and gifts, only FDIL can heal herself, if she so chooses.
Take some time out for reflection and maybe journal some of what you have written and re-read; so you can see the pattern of behavior. Or better still leave that for next week, and shut the phone off, and go away for the weekend and have a calming and relaxing weekend.
In kindness and in care.
So sad...This is something that will make whatever estranged us from some of our family members seem so silly. We must forgive and love while we can and keep soft hearts...Please hug your son and FDIL tight and pray together often. People need to be told and shown that they are loved often. My prayers are with you all.
Hello Wise Women,
Sorry that I haven't had a chance to visit until today. I know it's hard to believe with all the terrible things that have been going on, but I truly had a peaceful and lovely three day retreat. On the day of the burial I sent DS a simple text saying "I love you and you are in my thoughts. FDIL too". And left it alone. He did not text back, nor did I expect him to. I am feeling comfortable with our progress and have no need to rock the boat.
Donna, thank you so much for taking the time to offer such good advice. Thank you for your prayer as I did truly feel peace and enlightenment these three days. It was as if I had been holding my breath and was finally able to exhale.
I am hoping that our roller coaster ride is reaching a calm as I don't want to ride it again. I wrote that I would allow DS to come to me when he needs me and I intend to stick to that. I think of him and FDIL everyday, but I have no desire to contact either one.
FDIL does have some serious issues, but so does DS. Maybe together they will seek counseling and begin to heal.
I won't be apologizing to FDIL anymore, but I actually feel good that I did. Not because I think I treated her terribly, but because it shows DS that I am willing to try to make peace in order for us to all be happy. If FDIL insists on holding on to the past, at least DS will know that that his mother loved him enough to put my own feelings aside. I don't hate FDIL but I'd be lying if I didn't say that am so unhappy that the one women he chooses to love is the one who has placed distance between us. I do know that this is DS's life and he should chose who he shares it with. So much for those wonderful family holidays.
FDIL has choices in all of this, if she chooses to be with DS even tho he had another GF, it is her choice, if she chooses to use her path she has lived as a weapon, she chooses to be her own victim, this is far too deep for you to mitigate, and believe me I feel deeply for FDIL, however it is not you that can heal her with with hugs, and gifts, only FDIL can heal herself, if she so chooses.
Such wise words. I completely agree. I do hope she takes the right path because whatever path she takes DS is taking it right along with her. Thanks for your insight, Donna. I appreciate it.
Thanks so much everyone. You have truly helped me during this difficult time.
Hi Muffin ;
I think you needed that time to re assess your position in all this .
I think it's now up to them which path they take , and when they are ready to share
I'm sure your Ds will be in touch .
Wishing you peaceful times ahead .
Hi Muffin:
I am so grateful you had some days of peace. You have handled this all with such dignity, how brave you are.
The path ahead of us is never clear and concise, but what is clear is that you have a vision of where your mind and thoughts will be as the future unfolds, and this is your self-respect.
Be proud of all you have accomplished, and as that path goes forward, keep in touch, we are here, and you Muffin will always be in my prayers.
Hugs and luv
Hello Muffin,
I'm glad you have had some respite.
blessings
Hang in there, Muffin. Bless your heart. Sending Love...