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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: Keys Girl on July 26, 2010, 06:01:02 PM

Title: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on July 26, 2010, 06:01:02 PM
I have been in an ongoing subtle but nasty battle with my future daughter in law and son for almost a year.  After refusing to fund the engagement ring and an elaborate, extravagant wedding (I'm a pensioner living on a shoe string), the you know what hit the fan when she dictated that I was going to pay for a huge open bar for her large, extended family of 150 people.

She is a very controlling, aggressive individual and is now trying to prevent me from speaking to my son, emailing him and allowing all contact to them via her.  My son appears to be beaten into submission although he has yet to marry her.  I'm running out of patience for her "She who must be obeyed" attitude and despite her young age, she's used to pushing people around and them giving in to her every whim.  I am no longer prepared to try to do everything and anything to please her.  She has used the "cold shoulder" treatment on me for the last 2 months and in that time, I got used to them not being in my life.  While it was very difficult at first, as the weeks went by, I went on with my life and actually enjoyed the peace and quiet.

She sent a email asking me how come they hadn't heard from me? Since I had already sent 3 emails, one in which I asked for their new address so I could send a housewarming gift (which went unanswered), the blame shifting mechanism is in place.  I called my son around the same time and he said he would get back to me and never did.  He's done this before, I've heard her say something to him and he gets off the phone with a stupid excuse.

Here's the question.

I'm starting to believe that there is no point in keeping any semblance of a relationship with them unless I want a steady diet of humiliation and hostility.  I'm not prepared to eat that for anyone.  If my son has decided that she is the woman he loves and wants to marry, so be it.  I'm not marrying her.  I'm thinking of letting them know that our relationship is subject to one more try.  That I will give them a chance to rebuild our relationship with cooperation, respect and courtesy, but if that doesn't happen, I'm prepared to end it and wish them the very best of luck in their new life and get on with my life and enjoy the peace and quiet again.

Any ideas?  My family is really my son and my aunt who lives quite a long distance away, but I do have a family of friends who are wonderful.  I've been burying so many of my friends who are dying of cancer, that if it's my turn next I don't want my last years to be full of this little brat and her demands.

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on July 26, 2010, 06:07:06 PM
I always hedge with an ultimatum..."one more try and here's how you have to be." I think you are asking for qualities they either don't have or refuse to apply to you. They are how they are and they are probably going to continue to be how they are. You can't tell them how to be, even when you're 100% right. Just my take on this. Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Orly on July 26, 2010, 08:52:44 PM
When you are talking to them on the phone remember to plaster a smile on your face.  Yes, even though you are not happy or are irritated, this little trick will make your 'voice' sound pleasant.  Then for every request made for financial funding a "Oh, I'm sorry, my budget won't stretch to cover ANY of that, so no I can't help you with it."  As to your e-mails for addresses, evidently they really don't want any housewarming gifts, so go with their implied wishes and do not send any.  Send e-cards for all of their events (b-days, anniversaries, etc), again since they will not supply you with an address.  Respond to her "cold shoulder" tactics as if they aren't really happening....how deflating it is when a person's snubs are not noticed.

I'm sorry that your son and soon to be DIL are acting this way, maybe when they get tired of trying to get your back up and run off with your goat, they will realize they are wasting THEIR energy and time.  Or else they will bruise their foreheads sufficiently and quit banging their heads against the wall.

Sending a wall of support your way.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cadagi101 on July 26, 2010, 09:30:21 PM
Hi keysgirl,  you are luckier than many, you have other family and friends and a great attitude to hold your head high when it comes to that FDIL how awful it must be to be in that situation.   My first thought if it were me is to just what you are doing - staying out of their lives, maybe you feel like being there for them if they ask you, maybe you don't but it will be a wake up call  for FDIL and ds if they have children.   You might be surprised how they need you then.!!  Depending how they treat you in the meantime though if it continues to be rotten who could blame you for not being available. I do not have married children so I am talking through my hat really but from what is often written here lots of MIL's keep the peace with difficult DIL's to have contact with gc.    I would give it one last try with both of them if that doesn't work,  on the sly I would tell ds you are dissappointed the way things are going - but that you accept it and will stay distant he might be concerned and dissapointed in gf's attitude  as well.   Also and hearing it from you might be just what he needs to get a grip.  -who knows he might call the whole thing of...if he knows he has your support.  Similar story with my SIL and my parents.   It took her getting breast cancer to realise her dm wouldn't drop everything to help out with her 4 children but my mum was more than happy to help.  dil is a changed person, I could never have believed someone with a heart of stone could melt.
keep your head and dignity in tact.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on July 26, 2010, 10:05:57 PM
Oh my. She's not likely to change, so you'll have to have a coping strategy. Continue to be as independently fabulous as you are and even crank it up a bit! Here's hoping your DS then decides he wants to maintain a relationship with you, since you're so interesting and not at all the typical clingy cartoonish M/MIL that everyone expects, and informs his fiance that although she will always come first, his mom is still an important part of his life. FDIL can accept it or move on. What a concept!

We can dream, eh? Best wishes to you, KeysGirl.

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on July 26, 2010, 10:11:33 PM
Oh, I love that!  ;D
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: catchingup on July 26, 2010, 10:45:19 PM
Hi keys girl. "She sent an email asking"HOW COME THEY HAD NOT HEARD FROM YOU" Thats the key
Let them seek you out. Let them think you are totally independant and self assured and sound jolly and full of life if you do have contact.
Running after anyone and allowing them to think you are "Dead" without their contact will drive them away even more.

I agree wholeheartly with the advise "Orly" gave you.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on July 27, 2010, 05:04:49 AM
Thank you very much to everyone for their feedback.

I don't speak to them on the phone because they don't call me and when I call my son says "I'll call you back in 20 minutes and doesn't".......

It's curious to me that they are being oh so hostile BEFORE their wedding.  I never thought I would think this but attending the wedding is not high on my priority list, especially since the bride deliberately schedule the date to coincide with a big charity event that I work for every year......."oh, I thought it was around then......." was her subtly hostile reply when I found out the date.

At this point in time, I will deal with them via email........maybe once every 2 months, that's 6 times a year, and send emails to them for birthdays, Christmas and make a donation to a charity.  Last year when it was my birthday, no phone call, no email, no nothing.  On Mother's Days, no card, no flowers, but my son did make a phone call late in the day to wish me Happy Mother's Day.

Now that my son is into his 30's, I expect more.  His GF has a habit of calling him constantly if he is with me alone (like once every 3 years).  One year on Mother's Day, he came to my apartment which was across the city to wish me Mother's Day (no card, etc.) and she phone him 23 times in the 30 minutes he was with me.

I'm not going to worry about the whole "be nice to us or you won't see your grandchildren"........that game works both ways, "Be polite and courteous to me or their grandmother may be on the other side of the globe, helping out other people's children in a refugee camp".

I think these DILs live for the fight, so they can prove to the MILs that they are the "Boss"......I can't get an enduring portrait of her dressed as Hitler in a little mustache and a "Sieg Heil" salute out of my mind. 

She is who she is, and since her parents have spoiled her and catered to her every whim, she's expecting me to do the same.  I have done my best for 5 years, buying gifts, dinners, etc., etc. but no longer.  My son was not brought up that way (I brought him up on my own) and while there were many times when he was growing up that I was so proud of him that I thought my heart would burst out of my chest, this is definitely not one of them....I have to say that I've been overwhelmingly sad in the last 2 months, it's like a death in the family, and it is, the death of my son as the person who I thought he was and I now I have to deal with the reality that who he has become, under the thumb of "she who must be obeyed" and too passive to stand up to treat his mother with basic courtesy is not a pretty picture.  While there were many things about my ex-husband that I didn't like, he never would have tolerated me being bold and demanding with his mother, and I wouldn't have considered it let alone followed through on it, MY mother would have had a fit.

This future DIL is looking for the squabble, so she can get her jollies.  She won't get it from me.  The only thing she will get from me is distance, geographical and otherwise and the bare minimum of courtesy.  I'm not going to sit down with them and try to be honest.  There's no point, her constant plague of phone calls is indicative of someone with "stalker" type tendencies and being honest with those people is always a big mistake.  Knowledge is power and I won't give her any more knowledge other than the fact that I am still on the planet, which I will make sure she gets every 60 days.

I have decided that since I live some distance away from them, I won't make to effort to drive to see them, stay with them or have/buy meals for/with them.  They have never come to visit me, despite my many invitations.  I will deal with them via email alone, and likely will decide to attend the wedding......but will hire a big, ugly, burly motor cycle gang type actor dude as my escort.  I'm not looking forward to spending a minute with my ex-husband now that his long term relationship has ended, with the whole emotional "Oh don't they look lovely together"......so me and "Tiny" can arrive, stay as long as necessary for the ceremony, photos, speeches and then skeedadle on the back of his Harley.  He can count his earnings for the wedding gig and then I will go to a lovely hotel for a massage and spa treatment followed by a quiet evening in the company of a couple of wonderful friends.

It's very sad, disappointing and not the way I had expected that things would work out.  As my aunt said to me "I'm sorry to have to say this to you, but "That's life".
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on July 27, 2010, 05:09:15 AM
Oh, one more thing.

Next year on Mother's Day, my phone will be turned off, I'll go white water rafting or something, make a big day of it for myself and if my son calls, well, thank goodness for voice mail.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on July 27, 2010, 05:27:55 AM
Yes, I do....I'd let my son know, how I felt in no uncertain terms....and I'd ask him straight out..."What did you do in your life, that you believe you deserve so little"....and then, I'd also let her know, you won't tolerate this behavior, it's unacceptable...with both of them together, I'd let them know you mean business, and it's they're choice....but you will not tolerate this for no one, not even your son....and then tell them both, they need counseling...let them know this behavior is not normal....and ask your son, why he takes it..?  Why he allows someone else to dictate to him when he can and can't call his own mother, spend time with her and other family members...and make sure you tell him, after they are married it will only get worse....and if she wants a big wedding, then she and her parents can pay for it, that you simply cannot afford to do so and won't. 

I'm really sick to death of these kids today, expecting parents to fund they're extravagant weddings...she is not in love with your son, she is in love with the idea of love and having this huge princess wedding at everyone else's cost.  Ridiculous. 

It sounds like your on the right course...it is not easy to cut your child out of your life....I did so for 3 years...it was hell....for me it didn't get better, but at least I felt like I had my own peace and self respect....I was unlike you, trying to hard...walking on egg shells all of the time....a lot of it was my own fault...I was being fake, and she knew it...the harder I tried, the harder I failed...

Sending you hugs in hopes it all works out for you, but it sounds to me, like all your ducks are in a row....LOL

Creme
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on July 27, 2010, 05:50:40 AM
Quote from: Keys Girl on July 27, 2010, 05:04:49 AM
Thank you very much to everyone for their feedback.

I don't speak to them on the phone because they don't call me and when I call my son says "I'll call you back in 20 minutes and doesn't".......

It's curious to me that they are being oh so hostile BEFORE their wedding.  I never thought I would think this but attending the wedding is not high on my priority list, especially since the bride deliberately schedule the date to coincide with a big charity event that I work for every year......."oh, I thought it was around then......." was her subtly hostile reply when I found out the date.

At this point in time, I will deal with them via email........maybe once every 2 months, that's 6 times a year, and send emails to them for birthdays, Christmas and make a donation to a charity.  Last year when it was my birthday, no phone call, no email, no nothing.  On Mother's Days, no card, no flowers, but my son did make a phone call late in the day to wish me Happy Mother's Day.

Now that my son is into his 30's, I expect more.  His GF has a habit of calling him constantly if he is with me alone (like once every 3 years).  One year on Mother's Day, he came to my apartment which was across the city to wish me Mother's Day (no card, etc.) and she phone him 23 times in the 30 minutes he was with me.

I'm not going to worry about the whole "be nice to us or you won't see your grandchildren"........that game works both ways, "Be polite and courteous to me or their grandmother may be on the other side of the globe, helping out other people's children in a refugee camp".

I think these DILs live for the fight, so they can prove to the MILs that they are the "Boss"......I can't get an enduring portrait of her dressed as Hitler in a little mustache and a "Sieg Heil" salute out of my mind. 

She is who she is, and since her parents have spoiled her and catered to her every whim, she's expecting me to do the same.  I have done my best for 5 years, buying gifts, dinners, etc., etc. but no longer.  My son was not brought up that way (I brought him up on my own) and while there were many times when he was growing up that I was so proud of him that I thought my heart would burst out of my chest, this is definitely not one of them....I have to say that I've been overwhelmingly sad in the last 2 months, it's like a death in the family, and it is, the death of my son as the person who I thought he was and I now I have to deal with the reality that who he has become, under the thumb of "she who must be obeyed" and too passive to stand up to treat his mother with basic courtesy is not a pretty picture.  While there were many things about my ex-husband that I didn't like, he never would have tolerated me being bold and demanding with his mother, and I wouldn't have considered it let alone followed through on it, MY mother would have had a fit.

This future DIL is looking for the squabble, so she can get her jollies.  She won't get it from me.  The only thing she will get from me is distance, geographical and otherwise and the bare minimum of courtesy.  I'm not going to sit down with them and try to be honest.  There's no point, her constant plague of phone calls is indicative of someone with "stalker" type tendencies and being honest with those people is always a big mistake.  Knowledge is power and I won't give her any more knowledge other than the fact that I am still on the planet, which I will make sure she gets every 60 days.

I have decided that since I live some distance away from them, I won't make to effort to drive to see them, stay with them or have/buy meals for/with them.  They have never come to visit me, despite my many invitations.  I will deal with them via email alone, and likely will decide to attend the wedding......but will hire a big, ugly, burly motor cycle gang type actor dude as my escort.  I'm not looking forward to spending a minute with my ex-husband now that his long term relationship has ended, with the whole emotional "Oh don't they look lovely together"......so me and "Tiny" can arrive, stay as long as necessary for the ceremony, photos, speeches and then skeedadle on the back of his Harley.  He can count his earnings for the wedding gig and then I will go to a lovely hotel for a massage and spa treatment followed by a quiet evening in the company of a couple of wonderful friends.

It's very sad, disappointing and not the way I had expected that things would work out.  As my aunt said to me "I'm sorry to have to say this to you, but "That's life".

I wish there was an icon for hand clapping.  You are my hero.  Well said, Keys Girl.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on July 27, 2010, 07:04:47 AM
(( )) Hand clapping?
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on July 27, 2010, 07:47:29 AM
yes, indeed, hand clapping and standing ovation...love her attitude! 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on July 27, 2010, 08:36:51 AM
Quote from: Keys Girl on July 27, 2010, 05:09:15 AM
Oh, one more thing.

Next year on Mother's Day, my phone will be turned off, I'll go white water rafting or something, make a big day of it for myself and if my son calls, well, thank goodness for voice mail.

Keys Girl,
Will you be sure to write again soon? You give me courage and the oomph I need.  You have to be Auntie Mame reincarnated. 
(((((( )))))))
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on July 27, 2010, 10:22:29 AM
Hear, hear! Love your style, KeysGirl. Even those of us on tighter budgets can adopt your "Auntie Mame" attitude. BTW, if your DS is 30 years old, he and his GF should be funding their wedding completely by themselves, IMHO.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on July 27, 2010, 10:40:29 AM
Amen, Pen!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: 1Glitterati on July 27, 2010, 12:14:29 PM
Quote from: Keys Girl on July 26, 2010, 06:01:02 PM
I'm thinking of letting them know that our relationship is subject to one more try.  That I will give them a chance to rebuild our relationship with cooperation, respect and courtesy, but if that doesn't happen, I'm prepared to end it and wish them the very best of luck in their new life and get on with my life and enjoy the peace and quiet again.

I'm not going to say you should or you shouldn't say this.  I am going to say be prepared if you do.  Ultimatums are a 50/50 shot.  If you make one...follow through if the ultimatum isn't met.

I've issued an ultimatum before.  I didn't "win".  I followed through.  It hasn't been pleasant, but I meant what I said.  And, things will never be the same again because I gave the ultimatum and I stuck to it.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on July 27, 2010, 12:54:59 PM
Thank you for your feedback, everyone.

I don't know if I am "Auntie Mame" but once I got into my thirties, I never let anyone stop me from doing anything that I wanted to do.  I'm only 2 years away from 60, so I have even less patience now than I did for the spoiled brats of jellyfish parents who have conditioned their princess daughters to expect the world to carry on their bad behavior.  I told my son last year that this woman was a vat of behavior problems and that I would not tolerate her bad behavior because he was putting a ring on HER finger, not mine.  I also told him that if she was this much trouble now, when he did put a wedding ring on her finger she would be 10 times worse.  I also told him that if he told her about my warnings and she took out her anger on him that I would be fine with that, because after all, he chose her.

He wasn't too happy about that, and initially was the same polite, courteous son he had always been.  However soon after when Bridezilla found out much of what I told him, the verbal abuse department took off like a shot and some of the things that came out of my son's mouth on the telephone were so shocking that the only thing that I could do was fight to keep calm and maintain my composure.  I did.  There were numerous instances of obvious hostility however I did try on numerous occasions to be as conciliatory as possible including contributing my time and energy to get various things ready for the wedding.  It was a waste of time, about nine months, but I'm glad I did it. 

Of course I shouldn't be paying for the wedding, any more than I should be paying for the engagement ring when he called me to ask me for money because the Princess wasn't happy with the size of the ring he could afford to buy her.  I refused to give him a nickel.  Engagement rings are not in my budget.  If she didn't love him enough to marry him without a fancy ring, she doesn't love him enough.  I don't know that she loves him in the sense that many women our age would think of love, but one this is for sure........love doesn't hurt, financially, emotionally or any way else.  This is not love, this is control, or rather in my case, attempted control in an effort to fluff up her ego and enjoy my suffering as a double whammie, because after all she's the Princess.

Tough patootie, cutie........I have been on this earth for a lot longer, met a lot more people who are far nastier and I don't have a minute anymore for anyone who won't give me the basics of common courtesy.  There is an enduring and unshakable standard in our culture that Mothers should always be there for their children, and be self sacrificing in the process and be happy to do it.  Bunk.  I've paid my dues, in every way, worked from 5AM to midnight, 52 weeks a year to pay the bills on my own, make the meals, do the wash, groceries, drive him all over town so he can visit his friends and picked up the pieces when his father refused to pay child support and used to cancel out on his visits at the very last minute (after my son had waited 3 months to see him).  There is also a maxim that says you treat the parent you trust the worst, because you know that parent won't abandon you, and you treat the parent who hasn't treated you well with extraordinary efforts to please them which rarely work out.

I know that he wouldn't have called his father for money for the engagement ring, I know that she wouldn't have dictated to his father that huge expenses for the "coronation" type wedding were his.  I know my ex phones them on a constant basis and TELLS them when he is coming to visit and they had better be ready at the most inconvenient times.  I wouldn't do that.  They know that but don't appreciate it.

My son wanted a small ceremony with both sets of parents and the bride and groom on a beach........and John Belushi used to say ..."But Nooooo, she was insistent on the extravaganza that other people would pay for, (cost more than 3 years of my tiny pension) and that she would brag about.

My son has had more than adequate warning and the day may come when he comes to me and says "You were right"..........that day may or may not come, but in the meantime, as the old saying goes "If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy".  This Mama, ain't going to keep anybody happy except HERSELF, and will continue with the waiting game while making the most of every single day and making the most of my own life and carrying on my traditions of helping others.

I will be happy with or without the brat bride and submissive groom in my day-to-day life.

It's not that I don't love my son, but I don't love watching him grovel to please a spoiled, insecure, demanding materialistic princess as well as allowing her to try to dictate how I will keep in touch with them.  I don't love him enough to sabotage my own life and happiness.  I am responsible for mine and he is responsible for his. 

I'll respect his choices and he'll respect mine (even if they have to do it the "hard way").

The words of the poem in the movie "Invictus" are my motto.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul".

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on July 27, 2010, 01:39:20 PM
You tell em, Keys Girl! My hero!  Tough Patootie Cutie doesn't know she's come face to face with a tornado, does she?
(((((((((  )))))))))

From the words of Gloria Upson (who sounds like your DIL) from Auntie Mame:

"Bunny Bixler and I were in the semi-finals - the very semi-finals, mind you - of the ping-pong tournament at the club and this ghastly thing happened. We were both playing way over our heads and the score was 29-28. And we had this really terrific volley and I stepped back to get this really terrific shot. And I stepped on the ping-pong ball! I just squashed it to bits. And then Bunny and I ran to the closet of the game room to get another ping-pong ball and the closet was locked! Imagine? We had to call the whole thing off. Well, it was ghastly. Well, it was just ghastly."

(Auntie Mame told Patrick that Gloria had braces on her brains)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on July 27, 2010, 02:27:39 PM
KG, your FDIL sounds like mine times twenty. DS has been to see us w/o her perhaps three times in all the years they've been together. While he's here she calls many times, and each visit DS has had to leave early because of some "emergency" situation. From rings to condos to cars she wants the best of everything on a college-student budget. Her parents make sure she has it; she knows better than to expect DS to ask us for the money!

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on July 27, 2010, 05:49:05 PM
Yea, Team!!!!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on July 27, 2010, 06:22:03 PM
I wasn't sure what the reference to Auntie Mame and Bunny was all about but did find a clip on UTube.......ooohhh......that tone of voice was the same tone that the bride to be used to tell me that she had chosen the only day of the year that I would not like.......I'll have to try and get a copy of the movie, I hear that you can watch it again and again and still laugh.

The common denominator in all of these posts is pain, however, laughter (and an Auntie Mame attitude along with a tub of chocolate ice cream) is the best medicine in my opinion.  The old rule that "Revenge is dish best served cold" is one that is very wise, but oh so hard to stick to in the heat of pain and anger and battle.  I'm so grateful to Luise for setting up this forum.  Before I read her posts on the internet I was depressed and full of despair, but knowing that I'm not the only woman in the world whose adult son/daughter has turned out to be more of a disappointment after decades of time, energy, money and devotion has helped me a lot. 

Bravo, Luise, you're my hero.
 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on July 27, 2010, 06:48:34 PM
Keys Girl,

You're not alone in this at all.  Huge numbers of us belong to this heartbreaking group.  I think just hearing the stories can keep you sane at times. You can say, yes, I know, I've been there.  You and your spunk has made you my personal hero so keep that wit about you and get Auntie Mame with Rosalind Russell and get ready to laugh your head off.  It is based on a true story. You likely will need to order it from Amazon. It was made in 1958. 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Nana on July 27, 2010, 09:26:29 PM
Barelythere.......  yes, yes.  (give me five)....congrats....my hero too.

You have been hurt inmensely.......bu you are almost there......way to dignity and peace of mind.    Sometimes dil have the power (gc and son).........but we can stop their power over us...it is us to decide...when enough is enough.....
Everyone of us know our limits.......it is something personal that we know when we cannot take more.

God bless you and guide you......
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pooh on July 28, 2010, 08:03:11 AM
Woot Woot!  You just described my DIL and DS exactly!!!!!

I am with all the other ladies here.  What an inspiration you are.  You have arrived at the place before the marriage, that it took many of us here to arrive at afterwards.  I love how you write, please continue posting.


When your dreams turn to dust, vacuum!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: catchingup on July 28, 2010, 08:39:36 AM
 8) I love your attitude Keys girl. My attitude too.
Now we can all remember the turn of this century. Seem long ago? Not to me.
We may have that length of time or two if we are Luise 0r three or four to catch up on all the things we missed out on while devoting our life to bringing up kids.I sure will not fret while they are busy changing diapers and all that goes with it.
I do love babies and my sons but I have a life.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: neecee on July 29, 2010, 09:54:00 AM
Yeah! You rock KeysGirl!  I could change your signature and add my own name!  My first conversation with now DIL was if we had enough retirement saved..."just in case we need to take care of you".  Hah!
The only time we heard from them is when they wanted more money for their wedding.  The money topic would arise on the few occasions that we did see them. 

Got it now.  Old dad and I are getting more emotionally healthy spending this son's "inheritance".  We are having a wonderful year with our 8th trip since January.  Make no mistake that we are wealthy by any means, but, you know, car trips and camping, hiking, walks, picnics and friends can keep that sadness at bay and way more fun than paying for another therapist to discuss that feeling of "what did we do wrong?"...again!

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on July 29, 2010, 10:18:23 AM
Viva la trips!!!!  ;D ;D 8) 8)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on July 29, 2010, 10:37:00 AM
Quote from: neecee on July 29, 2010, 09:54:00 AM
Yeah! You rock KeysGirl!  I could change your signature and add my own name!  My first conversation with now DIL was if we had enough retirement saved..."just in case we need to take care of you".  Hah!
The only time we heard from them is when they wanted more money for their wedding.  The money topic would arise on the few occasions that we did see them. 

Got it now.  Old dad and I are getting more emotionally healthy spending this son's "inheritance".  We are having a wonderful year with our 8th trip since January.  Make no mistake that we are wealthy by any means, but, you know, car trips and camping, hiking, walks, picnics and friends can keep that sadness at bay and way more fun than paying for another therapist to discuss that feeling of "what did we do wrong?"...again!

LOL, I'm with ya girl!!!!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on July 29, 2010, 10:45:44 AM
Quote from: Keys Girl on July 27, 2010, 12:54:59 PM
Thank you for your feedback, everyone.

I don't know if I am "Auntie Mame" but once I got into my thirties, I never let anyone stop me from doing anything that I wanted to do.  I'm only 2 years away from 60, so I have even less patience now than I did for the spoiled brats of jellyfish parents who have conditioned their princess daughters to expect the world to carry on their bad behavior.  I told my son last year that this woman was a vat of behavior problems and that I would not tolerate her bad behavior because he was putting a ring on HER finger, not mine.  I also told him that if she was this much trouble now, when he did put a wedding ring on her finger she would be 10 times worse.  I also told him that if he told her about my warnings and she took out her anger on him that I would be fine with that, because after all, he chose her.

He wasn't too happy about that, and initially was the same polite, courteous son he had always been.  However soon after when Bridezilla found out much of what I told him, the verbal abuse department took off like a shot and some of the things that came out of my son's mouth on the telephone were so shocking that the only thing that I could do was fight to keep calm and maintain my composure.  I did.  There were numerous instances of obvious hostility however I did try on numerous occasions to be as conciliatory as possible including contributing my time and energy to get various things ready for the wedding.  It was a waste of time, about nine months, but I'm glad I did it. 

Of course I shouldn't be paying for the wedding, any more than I should be paying for the engagement ring when he called me to ask me for money because the Princess wasn't happy with the size of the ring he could afford to buy her.  I refused to give him a nickel.  Engagement rings are not in my budget.  If she didn't love him enough to marry him without a fancy ring, she doesn't love him enough.  I don't know that she loves him in the sense that many women our age would think of love, but one this is for sure........love doesn't hurt, financially, emotionally or any way else.  This is not love, this is control, or rather in my case, attempted control in an effort to fluff up her ego and enjoy my suffering as a double whammie, because after all she's the Princess.

Tough patootie, cutie........I have been on this earth for a lot longer, met a lot more people who are far nastier and I don't have a minute anymore for anyone who won't give me the basics of common courtesy.  There is an enduring and unshakable standard in our culture that Mothers should always be there for their children, and be self sacrificing in the process and be happy to do it.  Bunk.  I've paid my dues, in every way, worked from 5AM to midnight, 52 weeks a year to pay the bills on my own, make the meals, do the wash, groceries, drive him all over town so he can visit his friends and picked up the pieces when his father refused to pay child support and used to cancel out on his visits at the very last minute (after my son had waited 3 months to see him).  There is also a maxim that says you treat the parent you trust the worst, because you know that parent won't abandon you, and you treat the parent who hasn't treated you well with extraordinary efforts to please them which rarely work out.

I know that he wouldn't have called his father for money for the engagement ring, I know that she wouldn't have dictated to his father that huge expenses for the "coronation" type wedding were his.  I know my ex phones them on a constant basis and TELLS them when he is coming to visit and they had better be ready at the most inconvenient times.  I wouldn't do that.  They know that but don't appreciate it.

My son wanted a small ceremony with both sets of parents and the bride and groom on a beach........and John Belushi used to say ..."But Nooooo, she was insistent on the extravaganza that other people would pay for, (cost more than 3 years of my tiny pension) and that she would brag about.

My son has had more than adequate warning and the day may come when he comes to me and says "You were right"..........that day may or may not come, but in the meantime, as the old saying goes "If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy".  This Mama, ain't going to keep anybody happy except HERSELF, and will continue with the waiting game while making the most of every single day and making the most of my own life and carrying on my traditions of helping others.

I will be happy with or without the brat bride and submissive groom in my day-to-day life.

It's not that I don't love my son, but I don't love watching him grovel to please a spoiled, insecure, demanding materialistic princess as well as allowing her to try to dictate how I will keep in touch with them.  I don't love him enough to sabotage my own life and happiness.  I am responsible for mine and he is responsible for his. 

I'll respect his choices and he'll respect mine (even if they have to do it the "hard way").

The words of the poem in the movie "Invictus" are my motto.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul".

Youu remind me so much of Kathryn Hepburn, and I loved, loved, loved her!!!!!

You, are an asset to this community....and no matter what happens, somehow, I know, it will all work out in the end....your DIL is very lucky to have you....and MIL's listen up....remember, when your DIL's act like this, I think part of the reason is, b/c they fear you/us....?  They are afraid our son's won't love them as much as they love us....and that's so so wrong...if they knew anything, they'd know that....

I'm in your corner....
and hope your son wakes up and breaks the engagement off...but fast....
he has no idea what he's in for?

Hugs
Creme
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on July 29, 2010, 04:35:18 PM
It's so nice to have some folks "on my side"...... I have decided that my dues are paid and since I know know my DIL's "true colors", I won't underestimate her a bit.  She's dishonest, cunning, and I've seen her treat some of her own family members in a way that is shocking.  She would love to do the same for me and will only be happy if she can make me "suffer".  She's a piece of work, and I truly believe that my son would like to call off the wedding but doesn't know how.  She's such a controlling little brat, he would have to leave her at the altar, and move to Siberia under the witness protection program.  I'm thinking of painting the bottom of his shoes with the words "Help Me" for his wedding day.

My son threw a surprise party for her some time ago, she refused to go because she was too "tired".......when he told her there were people waiting at this party, she still refused to go.  He gave her a beautiful gift and she wouldn't open it up, and of course it was all "his fault".  Her parents have created a monster, her father once said to me "She's spoiled, but she'll learn"......Really?? Undo a lifetime of Princess training at the hands of you and your wife? Will OJ learn how to crochet? Will Mel Gibson take up needlepoint? I think not.  Daddy may expect the rest of the world to "learn" his Princess some humility, but I'm not doing his job.  He blew it and it's too late now.  She has an expression "Daddy's gonna do....." my "Son's gonna do"........as for me "FMIL's gonna do".......oops, the batteries won't work on the last one. 

I have decided that I will only allow them to keep in touch with me via email.  I will respond when I have the time......I'm very busy you know, and weeks will go by before I respond to her note.....I'm getting on with my life and spending it with people who don't look forward to pounding me into submission and email does have a way of piling up, kinda like laundry. Doncha know.

I have changed my will and left what little bit there might be to charity.  I have changed my contact data so when I die, my son and the cupcake will not be the first to rummage though my few precious possessions and ignore the terms of my will so that my little bits of jewelry will not go to the people I love but will probably be flushed down the toilet by the Princess.

I would never, ever, ever tell either one of them if I was sick or had any problems, she would take advantage of any type of weakness or illness to start "running the show"......last year her elderly grandmother was ill and she was very much against giving her grandmother any pain medication that she was asking for, despite the fact that she had been hospitalized for months........."she doesn't really need it" she said. 

"She who must be obeyed?" only by those who CHOOSE to.  I don't.......it's gonna be a tough fight because she'll try every trick in the book to get me under her thumb, including taking out her frustration on my son.  I warned him, and I suspect he is realizing that I was right, but it's always a pain when your Mother is right.

I have made the mistake earlier in my life and underestimated how far and wide and dirty the fight would get with other bullies.  I won't do it this time.   I don't expect to speak to either of them anytime soon.  If I get an invitation I expect I'll go to the wedding, but I also expect that will be the last time I will see either one of them for a long time.  Bullies are bullies, underneath it they are jealous, insecure but very threatened.  I'm not in the behavior modification department anymore, I'm going to enjoy my life and get on with it and make the best of it.  If they aren't it in, it's because they don't deserve to be in it.  Very sad, but I'm not going to wrestle with this little Grizzly Bear, she can prowl the forest for another target.  This is blackmail, emotional blackmail and emotional abuse and having read many of the posts of so many women on this forum as well giving my friends a shoulder to cry on, I will do everything I can to avoid spending any more time depressed and despairing over this DIL from hell.  That's what she would like anyway.

Perhaps the DIL and I will come to a truce, some years from now, I'm guessing it will be during the first few weeks after the birth of their child when they will both be totally sleep deprived, get a taste of what parenting is like and they are looking for some free baby sitting......well, Grandma will have to check her "busy" schedule..........and see if she can fit them in and reply to the email a little earlier than usual.

It's much easier to write about this on the printed page than it is to follow through, but it's like giving in to a 4 year old throwing a tantrum in the grocery store.  I taught my son when he was little that if he threw tantrums, he would be outside the store in 30-60 seconds.  He learned quick that tantrums got him nothing.

The one overriding law of human nature is: You always want what you can't have.  Sometimes you have to walk away, confident that you can survive no matter what the outcome and then sometimes some people realize they took you for granted.  It doesn't always happen but you won't know if you don't try.

Katharine Hepburn, Auntie Mame, maybe, perhaps a dash of Nancy Sinatra as well........"These boots are made for walking and that's just what I'll do"......


Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: elsieshaye on July 29, 2010, 04:45:55 PM
Print out what you wrote here, KG, or forward it to yourself, and read it when you feel "weak."  Yes, it's not as easy to implement as to write, but you can't fix this for your son, and "taking one for the team" doesn't help anybody.  Least of all you. 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on July 29, 2010, 06:49:56 PM
GRRRRRR!!!  Get em Keys Girl!  Cupcake, I love it. You are hilarious and should consider writing.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Nana on July 29, 2010, 06:52:58 PM
I also liked the "cupcake"title.....lol......
Good luck!   

I felt it was me writing this post a couple of years ago.
It worked for me...

Rosie


Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: neecee on July 29, 2010, 08:41:48 PM
Dear Ladies, I just love reading all these marvelous postings and the spunk in your voices.  The healing in my soul has really been profound.  I owe an enormous debt.  The repetitive voice in my head has quieted and I have slept for the last two nights. I never imagined this could happen...it is sort of like being in a sorority of powerful wise women.  I truly love the way each has added something.
Each time I log on, I read something that jars a painful memory.  I realize that it was not a quick event that caused this wound, but an "almost death" by a thousand cuts.
It is good to laugh about the silliness of being drawn into such absurd conversations.
 
I recall the jarring moment when I realized I had been bantering and fussing with someone who sounded like a 12 year old.  My daughter is in her 30's and we hadn't been so silly since she was a pre teen and I was the mother of a pre-teen. Those were not our best years and she is now one of my dearest friends.

Anyway, there was that moment when I recognized that this was a huge frustration for me.  I couldn't really grasp the idea of what the DIL was saying to me...it was so out of the realm of my reality.   I could have taken the childishness, but not the high stakes demanded now.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: catchingup on July 30, 2010, 12:03:51 PM


Keys girl
Yes!! definately a writer.You express yourself magnificiently.

Dont put it in writing but your aught to practise some of those words over and over until you can tell her automatically what a brat she is.
If your son does decide to "Not turn up" at the alter dont forget to tell her anyway. At least you will have it off your chest.
Goodness me maybe you should write a letter to your local magazine without it revealing who it is and read it to her and your son in passing and tell them what a brat this person sounds like.

Goodness I am giving you such bad advise!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on July 30, 2010, 01:24:44 PM
No, I don't need to tell her anything.......she knows.....my son would have told her last year after I read him the "riot act".  That's why she's so mad.....she knows and I suspect that underneath that hostility is a certain mix of envy and jealousy and anger because I won't give her my "goodhousekeeping seal of approval" before she marries my son.  My son isn't getting any medals from me either these days, so they are in it together, a united front of resentment and "so there".....well the peace and quiet department is open again at my house......"so there".  Writing to a magazine, etc. is bad behaviour on my part, I would rather post here and try to help people instead of looking for sympathy.  That stuff always comes back to bite you.

Every once in a while I feel sorry for her, she is so controlling, and tiresome because she's really looking for attention and approval, but that's not going to get me feeling sorry for her......she'll do with bad attention rather than good attention or no attention.

Putting me in the "dog house" is a nasty thing to do....but considering that the "dog house" might have a lock on the inside and I could stay inside as long as I want, they could find themselves in the "be careful what you wish for category".  My wish is to carry on with my life and enjoy it as much as possible.  I don't owe anyone anything, I owe myself the best possible years for however many I have left.

I have altered my plans for the wedding.  Instead of showing up with some big, ugly dude, I will show up with a much younger, handsome man.  Another friend of mine has the whole "duty wedding" and that's what she's doing.  I'll do that too.

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on July 30, 2010, 01:38:06 PM
How do you stay so strong, KeysGirl?  I am sometimes strong but all at once, I'm down for the count.  Do you always stay this strong?  Is it in your DNA?
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on July 30, 2010, 05:32:49 PM
I have learned the hard way that if you don't stand up for yourself just about everyone else will step all over you.  They will see you as a sucker, have no respect for you and treat you like a door mat that they can wipe their shoes on.  They do however respect strength, if they can't kick you around, they will eventually come to respect you, and want you to like them (this last part can take a decade or two).  I learned a long time ago that I wanted people to LIKE me, but they didn't always respect me.  It's better if you start with RESPECT and then move on to LIKE.

If they do come around eventually and treat you with courtesy and respect then I'm all for giving that back to them, but for a fairly short period of time in my marriage my ex tried to have me become "Mrs. Mouse".......it didn't work, I walked away from him with a 4 year old, no job, no money, no education, no family close by and after 26 years of clawing my way out of that pit with an incredible amount of hard work, determination, some wonderful friends who were loyal and supportive and a refusal to compromise my dignity and standards of integrity, I find myself here.  The cupcake ain't no competition compared to where I've been.

I defy anyone, including my son, to try to bring me back to "Mrs. Mouse".........ain't gonna happen.........hell will freeze over before Mrs. Mouse reappears, but perhaps in time, DIL will come to understand this and my son will go back to respecting me and treating me with the dignity I deserve.  Up until recently he couldn't do enough for me, and maybe the day will come when I will give him the opportunity to treat me well again.  He will have to EARN that opportunity.

Keys Girl's Rules
1. Never, ever, ever reward bad behavior from ANYONE including CHILDREN......adult or otherwise.
2. Always be able to stand on your own two feet, financially (I live very happily on Salvation Army store clothing and a budget that most people have for cat food)
3. Never forget #1 & #2

It's your life, your happiness, if you don't find the strength to make it happen, nobody else will, but they will kick your butt while you sit around looking for strength because they can and will have a buncha fun while they do it.  Give them another target.  Let them know that if they mess with you there will be consequences, big ones, and that includes "BA-BYE".........it's not a threat, it's a standard of behaviour that you won't accept because you deserve better.

Here's a little tip........fake it till you make it if you aren't feeling strong.......and don't tell a soul.  They will never know.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cadagi101 on July 30, 2010, 05:45:03 PM
I feel stronger every minute, thankyou so much
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on July 30, 2010, 05:49:46 PM
Quote from: Keys Girl on July 30, 2010, 05:32:49 PM
I have learned the hard way that if you don't stand up for yourself just about everyone else will step all over you.  They will see you as a sucker, have no respect for you and treat you like a door mat that they can wipe their shoes on.  They do however respect strength, if they can't kick you around, they will eventually come to respect you, and want you to like them (this last part can take a decade or two).  I learned a long time ago that I wanted people to LIKE me, but they didn't always respect me.  It's better if you start with RESPECT and then move on to LIKE.

If they do come around eventually and treat you with courtesy and respect then I'm all for giving that back to them, but for a fairly short period of time in my marriage my ex tried to have me become "Mrs. Mouse".......it didn't work, I walked away from him with a 4 year old, no job, no money, no education, no family close by and after 26 years of clawing my way out of that pit with an incredible amount of hard work, determination, some wonderful friends who were loyal and supportive and a refusal to compromise my dignity and standards of integrity, I find myself here.  The cupcake ain't no competition compared to where I've been.

I defy anyone, including my son, to try to bring me back to "Mrs. Mouse".........ain't gonna happen.........hell will freeze over before Mrs. Mouse reappears, but perhaps in time, DIL will come to understand this and my son will go back to respecting me and treating me with the dignity I deserve.  Up until recently he couldn't do enough for me, and maybe the day will come when I will give him the opportunity to treat me well again.  He will have to EARN that opportunity.

Keys Girl's Rules
1. Never, ever, ever reward bad behavior from ANYONE including CHILDREN......adult or otherwise.
2. Always be able to stand on your own two feet, financially (I live very happily on Salvation Army store clothing and a budget that most people have for cat food)
3. Never forget #1 & #2

It's your life, your happiness, if you don't find the strength to make it happen, nobody else will, but they will kick your butt while you sit around looking for strength because they can and will have a buncha fun while they do it.  Give them another target.  Let them know that if they mess with you there will be consequences, big ones, and that includes "BA-BYE".........it's not a threat, it's a standard of behaviour that you won't accept because you deserve better.

Here's a little tip........fake it till you make it if you aren't feeling strong.......and don't tell a soul.  They will never know.

Okay, I'm going to print this out.  Thank you for writing it.  Right now, my DH is in the hospital and my son and DIL went right off to another city without checking on him, not even a call after the surgery.  In my book that is unforgivable but that's all the family we have.  How can I let my son know that we won't put up with that?  Forget DIL, she doesn't care.  My son used to care so much. He is a stone now. 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on July 30, 2010, 06:01:24 PM
I love the idea of your showing up at the wedding with a hunk, dude, fox, hottie  or whatever the current term is. We all know what you mean!  :o  And we can all picture it!   ;D ;D Way to go!!!  8)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cadagi101 on July 30, 2010, 06:13:04 PM
That is dreadful behaviour, as you said "unforgivable" and your ds has made himself very unlovable by his lack of concern for his df.   I have not had that experience but if i had I would not call ds at all and wait until his phone call to you.  I really feel for you... words can't describe his lack of compassion and what it says's about him as a ds.   I do have a sister in law who had the same attitude, my brother took over the running of the family farm and he and his wife moved into the homestead.  Mum and dad retired into town.   My father would go out to the farm to help most days and my sil wouldn't even let my father into "her" house for lunch or rests instead mum packed dd lunch and he ate it outside.    arrrggg.   His health isn't the best and she shows nothing absolutely nothing and even though she talks to mum doesn't even acknowledge he isn't well as for sil offerring  to help dm and dd come on that is asking just a bit to much.  Oh boy.   At this worrying time dh needs you for the time being forget about ds and dil, they don't deserve your thoughts.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cadagi101 on July 30, 2010, 06:16:29 PM
if ds does phone you and doesn't have an outragesly true eason why he didn't ring befor I would say politely dad is recovering thankyou and don't go into any detail with him I must go now goodbye and hang up the phone.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on July 30, 2010, 06:21:24 PM
Quote from: Julia on July 30, 2010, 06:13:04 PM
That is dreadful behaviour, as you said "unforgivable" and your ds has made himself very unlovable by his lack of concern for his df.   I have not had that experience but if i had I would not call ds at all and wait until his phone call to you.  I really feel for you... words can't describe his lack of compassion and what it says's about him as a ds.   I do have a sister in law who had the same attitude, my brother took over the running of the family farm and he and his wife moved into the homestead.  Mum and dad retired into town.   My father would go out to the farm to help most days and my sil wouldn't even let my father into "her" house for lunch or rests instead mum packed dd lunch and he ate it outside.    arrrggg.   His health isn't the best and she shows nothing absolutely nothing and even though she talks to mum doesn't even acknowledge he isn't well as for sil offerring  to help dm and dd come on that is asking just a bit to much.  Oh boy.   At this worrying time dh needs you for the time being forget about ds and dil, they don't deserve your thoughts.

So hard but what a new guy my son has become. Never, ever that way before. That is horrible about your Father. The way your SIL did him was so unforgivable. Some things are just unforgivable.  :'(
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on July 31, 2010, 07:21:42 AM
Families don't have to be biological families.  You can have a much better family with friends who treat you well, love you and don't play games laced with hostility for you.

I would replace anyone with a new "family" member, you can have a huge new family of people, just because they don't have the same blood lines doesn't make them less valuable.

I would reduce my expectations to "0" for these sons and daughters who are acting out.  It's an adult version of a tantrum.

I would shut them out, let phone calls go to voice mail, leave emails unreplied, go on vacation without telling them.  Everyone hates being ignored and there is nothing more irritating to a spoiled brat than finding out that everyone else is going on with their lives and not letting them have the power to "run the show" and wreak havoc.

Do they deserve to be in your life? Do you want them in your life? Would you take that kind of treatment from someone else?  Your choice.  We all have to chose, and I'm not saying the choices are easy, but there are choices that can lead to a more joyful life on your own terms, not one someone else's who is used to the sacrificing that most parents have done.

I'm working on the premise that sometimes good things come from bad things if you can find a way to make a minus into a positive.  Keeping the patterns of bad behavior and suffering parents is a lose/lose situation.  The kids never learn to grow up and the parents become resentful and sorrowful, and they don't live forever, so as the years go by, the parents have more to lose.

There's a big world of people out there, and I think there should be an island, maybe a couple of miles from the North Pole where you could exile the badly behaved and spoiled offsprings and their spouses and they could all complain together.....maybe a reality tv show in the works........I'll start the casting, write and produce it........I'll call it "Surviving Parents ......of ...... Spoiled Princesses and Princes".......ahhhh the drama......maybe one one of those beaten down spouses will revolt and dump the dragon princess in front of a massive TV audience to the cheers of millions of 50+ parents........

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on July 31, 2010, 08:01:40 AM
Quote from: Keys Girl on July 31, 2010, 07:21:42 AM
Families don't have to be biological families.  You can have a much better family with friends who treat you well, love you and don't play games laced with hostility for you.

I would replace anyone with a new "family" member, you can have a huge new family of people, just because they don't have the same blood lines doesn't make them less valuable.

I would reduce my expectations to "0" for these sons and daughters who are acting out.  It's an adult version of a tantrum.

I would shut them out, let phone calls go to voice mail, leave emails unreplied, go on vacation without telling them.  Everyone hates being ignored and there is nothing more irritating to a spoiled brat than finding out that everyone else is going on with their lives and not letting them have the power to "run the show" and wreak havoc.

Do they deserve to be in your life? Do you want them in your life? Would you take that kind of treatment from someone else?  Your choice.  We all have to chose, and I'm not saying the choices are easy, but there are choices that can lead to a more joyful life on your own terms, not one someone else's who is used to the sacrificing that most parents have done.

I'm working on the premise that sometimes good things come from bad things if you can find a way to make a minus into a positive.  Keeping the patterns of bad behavior and suffering parents is a lose/lose situation.  The kids never learn to grow up and the parents become resentful and sorrowful, and they don't live forever, so as the years go by, the parents have more to lose.

There's a big world of people out there, and I think there should be an island, maybe a couple of miles from the North Pole where you could exile the badly behaved and spoiled offsprings and their spouses and they could all complain together.....maybe a reality tv show in the works........I'll start the casting, write and produce it........I'll call it "Surviving Parents ......of ...... Spoiled Princesses and Princes".......ahhhh the drama......maybe one one of those beaten down spouses will revolt and dump the dragon princess in front of a massive TV audience to the cheers of millions of 50+ parents........

Keys Girl, of course I take everything you say and try to apply it. I've found you to be my Tony Robbins!  I think this is what my Daughter in law would love for us to do, not tell them anything about us so we can go away but we have to if we are going to keep sane.  Each slap in the face by them is getting less painful.  Our son was the nicest guy, caring and loving to us and others.  Oh boy, what a difference cupcake has made in his life. 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on July 31, 2010, 09:53:39 AM
I know, that's the rub; that's one reason it's so hard to walk away...we don't want to give DIL what she wants since she's gotten so much already. What we want is some sort of compromise, as if we were dealing with rational people. When that doesn't seem likely it's best to take care of ourselves. If DIL sees it as a "win" for her, so be it - we know it's a major step forward for us!

Our DIL (and DS, let's be honest) have never invited us to their home except to help them move. On one of the hottest days on record we oldsters worked from dawn to dark, without being offered any refreshment of any kind by DIL. DS was pretty good about making sure DH had water, and finally offered to buy lunch late in the day when I refused to do any more work without a break. DIL threw a snit, but I didn't care - she wasn't going to kill my DH on my watch, no way. Where were her parents? On a lovely cruise! Never again.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Hope on July 31, 2010, 10:06:24 AM
KG,
I have read this thread with enthusiasm.  I love your spirit, sense of humor, strength, and self respect.  It is contagious.
Keep on keeping on.
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on July 31, 2010, 10:47:17 AM
Quote from: Pen on July 31, 2010, 09:53:39 AM
I know, that's the rub; that's one reason it's so hard to walk away...we don't want to give DIL what she wants since she's gotten so much already. What we want is some sort of compromise, as if we were dealing with rational people. When that doesn't seem likely it's best to take care of ourselves. If DIL sees it as a "win" for her, so be it - we know it's a major step forward for us!

Our DIL (and DS, let's be honest) have never invited us to their home except to help them move. On one of the hottest days on record we oldsters worked from dawn to dark, without being offered any refreshment of any kind by DIL. DS was pretty good about making sure DH had water, and finally offered to buy lunch late in the day when I refused to do any more work without a break. DIL threw a snit, but I didn't care - she wasn't going to kill my DH on my watch, no way. Where we her parents? On a lovely cruise! Never again.

I sooo understand.  That's like when we moved soon to be DILs entire apartment without her turning one single hand.  Just sat on her fanny the whole time.  Letting them go will be just what she wants.   
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on July 31, 2010, 10:49:03 AM
Quote from: Hope on July 31, 2010, 10:06:24 AM
KG,
I have read this thread with enthusiasm.  I love your spirit, sense of humor, strength, and self respect.  It is contagious.
Keep on keeping on.
Hugs, Hope

Yes! A column each day on here!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: autumnlady on July 31, 2010, 08:55:31 PM
Keys Girl -  What you wrote is perfect.  It does not matter what I do or say I am always judged by FDIL and DS #1.  I have finally decided to distance myself from them, everytime I see them my DS#1 says something that is hurtful and I am much more happy with him not around anymore.  Again, I just dont' understand how FDIL and DS #1 think it's okay to put rules on me in my own home.  FDIL will not budge on the GF of DS #2.  She really never took the time to get to know GF, but can't stand her.  Now my DS #1 is not talking to DS #2 because DS#1 is disappointed in DS#2 choice to  start dating GF again.   I am sad because FDIL has now succeeded in splitting up our family.  FDIL and DS#1 wedding is in December this year and I was so happy now I just want it over.  Keys Girl you have summed up everything that I am feeling.  I am now trying to meet new people and make some new friends.  I am only 52 and I have alot of life to live but I will definitely need help in getting through the rough days because I love my DS #1 very much and all I want is for him to be happy.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Alicev on July 31, 2010, 11:07:18 PM
I sense a lot of pain from you posts.  Behind all the toughness and ruggedness, there is a person that is vulnerable and that has been hurt a lot. I am sorry for the injustice that has happened to you. I am glad to see however that you know you are able to take good care of yourself.
I think it was your absolute right to refuse to pay for the ring or pitch in for the wedding and that your decision ought to have been respected. You have done all your best bringing up your child and he is responsible for himself now.

As for the ultimatum, I agree with 1Glitterati. Ultimatums only work if you follow through completely and you have let go of the outcome. Meaning that you will be able to accept whatever the outcome will be.
Life is not black and white, people are not black and white and all-or-nothing approach can leave us soon lonely. To set the consequences for unacceptable behavior is completely ok and can also be done in other ways.

For instance:

If you break your plans with me by not showing up or by calling me at the last minute to tell me that you had something else come up, I will confront your behavior and share my feelings. If you repeat that behavior, I will consider it to mean that you do not value or deserve my friendship - and I will have no contact with you for a month.

Since behavior patterns are quite ingrained in all of us, it is important to allow the other person some wiggle room to make a change in behavior - unless the behavior is really intolerable.  To go from one extreme to the other is a reaction to a reaction - and is codependent.  There are choices in between which are sometimes hard for us to see if we are reacting.  It is helpful to set boundaries that allow for some gradual change.

The consequences we set down for behavior we find unacceptable should be realistic - in that, the change that we are asking for is something that is within the others power (rather they are willing to take that responsibility is another thing altogether) - and enforceable, something that we are willing to do.

I read you have decided not to share your vulnerabilities with them, have no contact (other than email once in 60 days), turn off you phone on the next Mother's Day,  do not expect to speak to either of them anytime soon, refuse to give your approval, etc. That is fine when this is what you truly want in your heart and it works for you and makes you happy in the end. I just wonder if part of it is reacting to the treatment you have been subjected to and is therefore coming from the resentment you might feel.


Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: StainedGlassHeart on August 01, 2010, 04:27:56 AM
KeysGirl-I can so much relate to and begin to understand your feelings in this matter.  As I have read through your post, I felt like I was reading my own!  So many parallels.  I am so sorry for the grief your are experiencing.  Sounds like your son has meant the world to you, and losing him in this way is almost as bad a death.  I fully empathize with you here-I feel the same.  I have been learning to let go-as the saying goes 'We hold our children's hands for awhile, hold them in our hearts forever.'  May your find peace, as you pick up the shattered pieces of your heart and fashion a new window of hope-I work at this daily. 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on August 01, 2010, 05:04:29 AM
Quote from: Faith on July 31, 2010, 11:07:18 PM
I sense a lot of pain from you posts.  Behind all the toughness and ruggedness, there is a person that is vulnerable and that has been hurt a lot. I am sorry for the injustice that has happened to you. I am glad to see however that you know you are able to take good care of yourself.
I think it was your absolute right to refuse to pay for the ring or pitch in for the wedding and that your decision ought to have been respected. You have done all your best bringing up your child and he is responsible for himself now.

As for the ultimatum, I agree with 1Glitterati. Ultimatums only work if you follow through completely and you have let go of the outcome. Meaning that you will be able to accept whatever the outcome will be.
Life is not black and white, people are not black and white and all-or-nothing approach can leave us soon lonely. To set the consequences for unacceptable behavior is completely ok and can also be done in other ways.

For instance:

If you break your plans with me by not showing up or by calling me at the last minute to tell me that you had something else come up, I will confront your behavior and share my feelings. If you repeat that behavior, I will consider it to mean that you do not value or deserve my friendship - and I will have no contact with you for a month.

Since behavior patterns are quite ingrained in all of us, it is important to allow the other person some wiggle room to make a change in behavior - unless the behavior is really intolerable.  To go from one extreme to the other is a reaction to a reaction - and is codependent.  There are choices in between which are sometimes hard for us to see if we are reacting.  It is helpful to set boundaries that allow for some gradual change.

The consequences we set down for behavior we find unacceptable should be realistic - in that, the change that we are asking for is something that is within the others power (rather they are willing to take that responsibility is another thing altogether) - and enforceable, something that we are willing to do.

I read you have decided not to share your vulnerabilities with them, have no contact (other than email once in 60 days), turn off you phone on the next Mother's Day,  do not expect to speak to either of them anytime soon, refuse to give your approval, etc. That is fine when this is what you truly want in your heart and it works for you and makes you happy in the end. I just wonder if part of it is reacting to the treatment you have been subjected to and is therefore coming from the resentment you might feel.
Faith, since we're constantly hurt and disappointed in them, what are we left with to do?  It's apparent that my son's wife has systematically taken control of him and nothing but hurt and neglect has ensued. You can't imagine what that feels like.  I read on this site the explanation of narcissistic behavior.  I think it was written by Cremebulet.  This is totally my DIL.  One of the sentences says she watches for any slight of her and if there is, it's  heaped on you but in a worse way. 
An explanation below:

She strongly disapproves of others' personal autonomy and independence. Even innocuous activities, such as meeting a friend or visiting one's family require her permission. Gradually, she isolates his nearest and dearest until they are fully dependent on her emotionally, sexually, financially, and socially.

The narcissist's sense of self, which has not progressed past that of a very young child, they cannot deal with the reality of a mirror being held up before them. Unlike the alcoholic who may in due course "see the light", a narcissist simply does not have the emotional skills to step outside of themselves and glimpse the truth in the mirror. The essence of NPD is that the sufferer lives in a bubble that can only accommodate themselves. Self-reflection is definitely not in the narcissist's bag of skills and expecting them to be capable of doing so can court disaster.

Be prepared for rage and aggression to be aimed at you. Be prepared to not be heard.. Be prepared to have everything that you claim about them, to be reassigned to you. When and if you are strong enough to cope with this treatment, then you may decide to go ahead. If you are hoping for recognition and a change for the better, more pain is in store.

The sufferer of Narcissistic Personality Disorder do not realize that other people are separate entities, with their own needs, lives and wants. Narcissists treat people as if they only exist to serve the narcissist's needs, and they have little regard for those who do not pay court to their wishes. In fact, they often develop an active dislike for those they cannot control and manipulate. Even those who will do their bidding can fall out of favor in a heartbeat should they stand up to the narcissist and say "no."

Narcissists don't really "see" anyone else, only their potential use as an object to carry out their wishes. This is why children of narcissists often feel as though they are "invisible" and worthless." Of course, they are neither invisible nor worthless, but the narcissistic parent has transferred that feeling onto them. In fact, it is the narcissist themselves who has a deep sense of worthlessness.

To be diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, five or more of the following characteristics must be present:

1. An exaggerated sense of self-importance, with little actual achievements.

2. Fantasizes about unlimited power, success, intelligence, and beauty.

3. Believes that s/he is "special" and attempts to associate only with those who the sufferer perceives are "like" them or will "appreciate" their talent.

4. Needs excessive admiration.

5. Expects especially favorable treatment by others or automatic agreement by others.

6. Exploits other people for their own advancement.

7. Cannot empathize with others.

8. Is envious of others but also believes others are envious of them.

9. Exhibits arrogant behaviors.

Some researchers believe that this disorder has its roots in the failure of the parent to act as empathic "mirrors" during infancy. As a result, the child remains "stuck", in an emotional sense, at a very early stage of development, and never learns that others not only exist, and have real feelings and needs of their own. By the time a normal child has entered kindergarten, he or she has developed a sense of "other" and can respond to some extent to the needs of their peer group. For the narcissist, this stage does not seem to have been successfully achieved, and the now-grown adult has the empathic capacity of a very young infant.

Researchers with a more sociological slant take the view that the occurrence of narcissism is on the increase in Western society due to the emphasis on individualism, instant pleasure, and personal success. The uprise of the so-called "me-generation" is believed to have been responsible for breeding a whole new generation of narcissists. Interestingly, family research also suggests that it is possible that there is a genetic component to this disorder, which has been successfully traced through successive generations in some families.

I've read many articles concerning NPD, and from what I understand, NPD establishes itself within the host, during infancy or the toddler stages of life.  The child probably had a very dysfuncational parent or parents...and learned to turn they're feelings off to prevent hurt...so they set they're hooks into our sons...it is probably the very first time in they're lives they've been loved...therefore, they become extremely territorial...anyone who poses a threat to that attention they so need, is going to literally be pushed out of they're lives....

this is abnormal...as a person who understands love, would not do this to anyone....








Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on August 01, 2010, 05:14:52 AM
KeysGirl

Maybe just writing all this down, is helping you.  It's great therapy...your reinforcing your thoughts and feelings...I did that for a lot of years...your not really looking for someone to come along and wave a magic wand giving you answers....it would be nice, however, you know that a great change must come from her...so you write, thinking out loud...and it reinforces how you feel...

I do that a lot...and people think I'm directing my writings to them...but I'm not...I'm just thinking out loud, writing my feelings down...

your a strong woman....we all are, to experience what we're going thru...and it's a shame that parents raised a daughter like that...and my point in another thread I started...she actually thinks her behavior is normal...and it's ok to expect everyone to cater to her...she has no concept of how her actions, thoughts and words effect the lives of so many others...and what is worse, she doesn't care...or even realize?  And that is her parents fault...I'm wondering if her mother is like that?  Or if they just didn't take the time to deal with discipline...some people just give they're kids everything they want, to keep them quiet.  A man I work with, when he hears these kind of stories utters under his breath..."sheesh...you should have to take a test to be a parent".  I agree, there are some really crappy parents out there...and it makes me grateful that I had parents that taught me better..

I do hope and pray as you do, that something will wake her up...but more then that, I wish your son would break off the wedding...what is wrong with him that he thinks this is ok?  Worse...he is going to pay dearly after he marry her...she will be much worse, and then, if they have children...she will raise them as herself...and the beat goes on, and on....it's a shame.

Any your right about NPD...tis true...and such a shame, and I've learned that it is the hardest personality disorder to deal with...although, there are many different kinds/stages?
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on August 01, 2010, 05:29:42 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on August 01, 2010, 05:14:52 AM
KeysGirl

Maybe just writing all this down, is helping you.  It's great therapy...your reinforcing your thoughts and feelings...I did that for a lot of years...your not really looking for someone to come along and wave a magic wand giving you answers....it would be nice, however, you know that a great change must come from her...so you write, thinking out loud...and it reinforces how you feel...

I do that a lot...and people think I'm directing my writings to them...but I'm not...I'm just thinking out loud, writing my feelings down...

Keys Girl is like a motivational speaker to me.  She makes me think I can make it even if  my heart is broken. 
your a strong woman....we all are, to experience what we're going thru...and it's a shame that parents raised a daughter like that...and my point in another thread I started...she actually thinks her behavior is normal...and it's ok to expect everyone to cater to her...she has no concept of how her actions, thoughts and words effect the lives of so many others...and what is worse, she doesn't care...or even realize?  And that is her parents fault...I'm wondering if her mother is like that?  Or if they just didn't take the time to deal with discipline...some people just give they're kids everything they want, to keep them quiet.  A man I work with, when he hears these kind of stories utters under his breath..."sheesh...you should have to take a test to be a parent".  I agree, there are some really crappy parents out there...and it makes me grateful that I had parents that taught me better..

I do hope and pray as you do, that something will wake her up...but more then that, I wish your son would break off the wedding...what is wrong with him that he thinks this is ok?  Worse...he is going to pay dearly after he marry her...she will be much worse, and then, if they have children...she will raise them as herself...and the beat goes on, and on....it's a shame.

Any your right about NPD...tis true...and such a shame, and I've learned that it is the hardest personality disorder to deal with...although, there are many different kinds/stages?
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on August 01, 2010, 05:36:34 AM
Quotebarelythere...

Faith, since we're constantly hurt and disappointed in them, what are we left with to do?  It's apparent that my son's wife has systematically taken control of him and nothing but hurt and neglect has ensued.

Let him go...I know it is very very difficult and heartbreaking, but that is also part of a mother's job, is to let them go...
it's natural and nature's way.  There is nothing we can do about it...it's his turn now to learn life's lessons.  Life isn't always fair...we can only do the best we know how to do as parents...and hope that when they leave home, that our influence and teachings will carry through. 

I wonder sometimes, why our son's deem this normal behavior?  And also wonder why they refuse to get involved...but also have to wonder why they chose someone so dysfunctional...?  It's one thing to be going out with someone who doesn't show they're true selves until after they are married?  However, some of our DIL's show this kind of dysfunction before they're married and our son's go thru with it?  I don't get that? 

I had failed marriages...the men I married were very controlling people...his father married a very controlling woman, very evil if she doesn't get her way...and I can't help but wonder if a part of him deems this normal behavior b/c of it? 

I'm not saying my DIL is like yours...she isn't...she's a very sweet woman now...and a good wife and mother...however, when they first got married, she had some problems socializing...didn't understand family...she practically raised herself....yanno, her mother is a very lucky woman, that my DIL has forgiven her and loves her...visits her, spends quality time with her...however, I'm certain her mother regrets what she did...and realizes...and it will haunt her the rest of her life...b/c her other children are very dysfunctional...my DIL, thank God, is not like that...she's grown, and I believe my son and her are good together and for each other...however....I had to let it all go...allow my son his own life...and that is very difficult...I dreamed of someday having a daughter in law, with whom I was very close to...that we were best friends...I really always wanted a daughter after my son...and when he told me they were getting married, I was so excited.  However, she wasn't that kind of woman...it wasn't about me...she just wasn't interested in being close...and I don't know why, only she knows the reasons and there are probably many reasons...not just one.  However...what I didn't realize, is, I had this picture in my mind, how it would be after my son was married...close family...family dinners...a DIL that was very close...spending time together...why, b/c that is how I was raised I guess...but she didn't live up to my expectations...didn't make her wrong and me right...it's just the way things were...and the hardest thing to do in my life, was to let them go...to let them alone to live they're lives...regardless of what I thought, felt, wanted...and it gave me peace after the realization of it all...I wanted what a lot of my friends have now, with they're familes...however, when I saw them come home, and try to visit every single family member and how they wore themselves out doing so...trying to spend time with all of us...her mother, his father and step mother...me...I was impressed...and I also allowed myself to see them happy...and they were....really beaming from ear to ear...

I'm not suggesting this is your situation...mine is unique, as yours is...not one of us has identical situations...but in my case...my son went away to another country to work, putting his life on the line...all, to give his family more...well, I think it woke her and I both up...we're friends now and I couldn't be more pleases...however, she is not the kind to call constantly and neither am I.  She isn't clingy and neither am I...and now, I respect her ways, who she is...b/c I've realized, right or wrong, it doesn't matter...my son loves her and she loves him...that is all  a mother could want for her child...even though they live far away...I must adjust and get on with my life...we all must, regardless of the situation...there is still much for us to learn...and from this whole situation, I learned a lot....

Hugs dear lady...
Creme
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on August 01, 2010, 05:49:58 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on August 01, 2010, 05:36:34 AM
Quotebarelythere...

Faith, since we're constantly hurt and disappointed in them, what are we left with to do?  It's apparent that my son's wife has systematically taken control of him and nothing but hurt and neglect has ensued.

Let him go...I know it is very very difficult and heartbreaking, but that is also part of a mother's job, is to let them go...
it's natural and nature's way.  There is nothing we can do about it...it's his turn now to learn life's lessons.  Life isn't always fair...we can only do the best we know how to do as parents...and hope that when they leave home, that our influence and teachings will carry through. 

I wonder sometimes, why our son's deem this normal behavior?  And also wonder why they refuse to get involved...but also have to wonder why they chose someone so dysfunctional...?  It's one thing to be going out with someone who doesn't show they're true selves until after they are married?  However, some of our DIL's show this kind of dysfunction before they're married and our son's go thru with it?  I don't get that? 

I had failed marriages...the men I married were very controlling people...his father married a very controlling woman, very evil if she doesn't get her way...and I can't help but wonder if a part of him deems this normal behavior b/c of it? 

I'm not saying my DIL is like yours...she isn't...she's a very sweet woman now...and a good wife and mother...however, when they first got married, she had some problems socializing...didn't understand family...she practically raised herself....yanno, her mother is a very lucky woman, that my DIL has forgiven her and loves her...visits her, spends quality time with her...however, I'm certain her mother regrets what she did...and realizes...and it will haunt her the rest of her life...b/c her other children are very dysfunctional...my DIL, thank God, is not like that...she's grown, and I believe my son and her are good together and for each other...however....I had to let it all go...allow my son his own life...and that is very difficult...I dreamed of someday having a daughter in law, with whom I was very close to...that we were best friends...I really always wanted a daughter after my son...and when he told me they were getting married, I was so excited.  However, she wasn't that kind of woman...it wasn't about me...she just wasn't interested in being close...and I don't know why, only she knows the reasons and there are probably many reasons...not just one.  However...what I didn't realize, is, I had this picture in my mind, how it would be after my son was married...close family...family dinners...a DIL that was very close...spending time together...why, b/c that is how I was raised I guess...but she didn't live up to my expectations...didn't make her wrong and me right...it's just the way things were...and the hardest thing to do in my life, was to let them go...to let them alone to live they're lives...regardless of what I thought, felt, wanted...and it gave me peace after the realization of it all...I wanted what a lot of my friends have now, with they're familes...however, when I saw them come home, and try to visit every single family member and how they wore themselves out doing so...trying to spend time with all of us...her mother, his father and step mother...me...I was impressed...and I also allowed myself to see them happy...and they were....really beaming from ear to ear...

I'm not suggesting this is your situation...mine is unique, as yours is...not one of us has identical situations...but in my case...my son went away to another country to work, putting his life on the line...all, to give his family more...well, I think it woke her and I both up...we're friends now and I couldn't be more pleases...however, she is not the kind to call constantly and neither am I.  She isn't clingy and neither am I...and now, I respect her ways, who she is...b/c I've realized, right or wrong, it doesn't matter...my son loves her and she loves him...that is all  a mother could want for her child...even though they live far away...I must adjust and get on with my life...we all must, regardless of the situation...there is still much for us to learn...and from this whole situation, I learned a lot....

Hugs dear lady...
Creme

Thank you, that's what I'm trying to do and have let him go for my own sanity. My DIL is a user and it is very galling because I've been the used.  She is through with us so all communication has to be with her and her only.  Since she's through using us, her communication is sparse.  She dresses her girls in the finest also but that's all right but material things are the most important thing to her and none of my business. My son is the workhorse and no, I don't see the light in his eyes any longer for her.  Again, none of my business.  I tried to say on the post I copied that Keys Girl is like a Motivational Speaker to me.  I hope she still writes even if she is deeply hurt because her daily affirmations are a tonic to me.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on August 01, 2010, 07:20:02 AM
Letting go, my friend, is one of the most difficult things for  some of us mother's to do, believe me...it's pain staking...and a whole life's lesson to learn...one that is most painful at times...but we must...

big hugs...
Creme
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on August 01, 2010, 07:58:24 AM
Quote from: Faith on July 31, 2010, 11:07:18 PM
I sense a lot of pain from you posts.  Behind all the toughness and ruggedness, there is a person that is vulnerable and that has been hurt a lot. I am sorry for the injustice that has happened to you. I am glad to see however that you know you are able to take good care of yourself.
I think it was your absolute right to refuse to pay for the ring or pitch in for the wedding and that your decision ought to have been respected. You have done all your best bringing up your child and he is responsible for himself now.

As for the ultimatum, I agree with 1Glitterati. Ultimatums only work if you follow through completely and you have let go of the outcome. Meaning that you will be able to accept whatever the outcome will be.
Life is not black and white, people are not black and white and all-or-nothing approach can leave us soon lonely. To set the consequences for unacceptable behavior is completely ok and can also be done in other ways.

For instance:

If you break your plans with me by not showing up or by calling me at the last minute to tell me that you had something else come up, I will confront your behavior and share my feelings. If you repeat that behavior, I will consider it to mean that you do not value or deserve my friendship - and I will have no contact with you for a month.

Since behavior patterns are quite ingrained in all of us, it is important to allow the other person some wiggle room to make a change in behavior - unless the behavior is really intolerable.  To go from one extreme to the other is a reaction to a reaction - and is codependent.  There are choices in between which are sometimes hard for us to see if we are reacting.  It is helpful to set boundaries that allow for some gradual change.

The consequences we set down for behavior we find unacceptable should be realistic - in that, the change that we are asking for is something that is within the others power (rather they are willing to take that responsibility is another thing altogether) - and enforceable, something that we are willing to do.

I read you have decided not to share your vulnerabilities with them, have no contact (other than email once in 60 days), turn off you phone on the next Mother's Day,  do not expect to speak to either of them anytime soon, refuse to give your approval, etc. That is fine when this is what you truly want in your heart and it works for you and makes you happy in the end. I just wonder if part of it is reacting to the treatment you have been subjected to and is therefore coming from the resentment you might feel.

I agree with you I've gone through a lot of pain, I wouldn't be on this website if that wasn't the case.

As for setting down boundaries, in terms of words, etc., that's a total waste of time with people who are toxic.  They will twist your words and message and it's just another piece of "ammunition" for the "we are so hard done by dept.".

The type of behaviour that I've been dealing with for almost 2 years is abusive.  Not financially abusive because I didn't let it happen.  Emotionally abusive, without a doubt and with malice from them both.  I don't think I'm reacting to the treatment, except in a way to protect myself.  I don't see myself as resentful, I see myself as putting up the barriers to protect myself from any further abuse.

I don't believe you undo a lifetime of conditioning on the part of my future DIL's family to expect the universe to revolve around her and to have everyone else in her life pick up the tab for ridiculous extravagance.  I've never known anyone to buy 10 nightgowns at a time, well, maybe Jackie O.  Just another day for her.

The difficult part is that I have come, and am still working on coming to terms with is that the relationship that I had with my son and her is over.  The relationship as I knew it.  If there is to be a new relationship, it will be forget over time and it is unlikely that I will ever trust them 100% again.  I can think of many sets of circumstances where their best interests were what they were interested in at the expense of my best interests.  Toxic.  This is not the way that people who truly care about you treat you.  (If you allow them to)

If I afford them the opportunity to keep in touch with me from a minimal point of view, that's still more than I have to.  I could, if I chose, walk away completely and wish them well in their marriage and future and "drive on".  I've chosen not to do that.  I've chosen to make it clear to them/her in actions that any controlling type behaviour will be met with a wall of silence.  Actions speak louder than words.

This isn't much different from an abusive relationship where a husband batters a woman into submission.  The players have slightly different roles, but it is still a family setting where a victim (that would be me, and in a way, my son) submit to the constant, unreasonable demands of a perpetrator (my future DIL) who will never be pleased no matter what.

If my son has chosen to marry her, put up with her and take the consequences, so be it.  I never agreed to put up with this.  After more than 5 years of treating her with every courtesy, kindness, and a generous heart in every way, that department is closed.  It is closed because of their bad behavior.  Those are their consequences and if they don't like it, tough luck.

It's been agony for me to realize that my son (who up until 2 years ago) treated me with every courtesy, respect and wouldn't take a nickel from me has not been turned into this resentful, cold, perhaps even hateful individual.  He has morphed into someone that I need to protect myself from.  Very, very sad, but the writing is on the wall and I'm not going to ignore it.

Giving them "wiggle room" is foolhardy in my opinion, that's like giving a bullet to someone who has a gun instead of a dozen bullets.  If you are a mature adult you don't need "wiggle room", which is just another form of indulgence that parents have given these spoiled brats.  You need to GROW UP and act like an adult.  Stand on your own two feet, and when YOU have been emotionally abusive to someone who has given you nothing but kindness and generosity for 5 years, the apologies should be coming my way from them both.

I'm no longer in the behavior modification department, my years of raising a child are over.  I'm in the "getting on with my life, and having a great time" timeframe.  If I don't allow them a reply for 60 days it's because I don't need the toxic kids to spray their toxicity more frequently, because they are resentful and angry that they won't be treated like the Princess and her Prince and wish to "punish" me for not recognizing what they deserve.  THEIR expectations are the problem, totally outlandish and unlikely to change while anyone else continues to meet them.

There is no room in my life/heart for toxic people.  That I've even decided to leave a sliver of opportunity to keep in touch with me is all that I'm prepared to do and I'm totally fine with that.  They are lucky to have that but I'm sure won't appreciate that either.  Maybe down the line, but I'm not counting on that any more than I'm counting on winning the lottery to buy my groceries this week.

Change is difficult for everyone, and it is impossible to motivate anyone but yourself.   My expectations are "0" for a relationship with them.  If something better materializes, it's a bonus, if not, I'm ready for it.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on August 01, 2010, 08:11:49 AM
Quote from: Keys Girl on August 01, 2010, 07:58:24 AM
Quote from: Faith on July 31, 2010, 11:07:18 PM
I sense a lot of pain from you posts.  Behind all the toughness and ruggedness, there is a person that is vulnerable and that has been hurt a lot. I am sorry for the injustice that has happened to you. I am glad to see however that you know you are able to take good care of yourself.
I think it was your absolute right to refuse to pay for the ring or pitch in for the wedding and that your decision ought to have been respected. You have done all your best bringing up your child and he is responsible for himself now.

As for the ultimatum, I agree with 1Glitterati. Ultimatums only work if you follow through completely and you have let go of the outcome. Meaning that you will be able to accept whatever the outcome will be.
Life is not black and white, people are not black and white and all-or-nothing approach can leave us soon lonely. To set the consequences for unacceptable behavior is completely ok and can also be done in other ways.

For instance:

If you break your plans with me by not showing up or by calling me at the last minute to tell me that you had something else come up, I will confront your behavior and share my feelings. If you repeat that behavior, I will consider it to mean that you do not value or deserve my friendship - and I will have no contact with you for a month.

Since behavior patterns are quite ingrained in all of us, it is important to allow the other person some wiggle room to make a change in behavior - unless the behavior is really intolerable.  To go from one extreme to the other is a reaction to a reaction - and is codependent.  There are choices in between which are sometimes hard for us to see if we are reacting.  It is helpful to set boundaries that allow for some gradual change.

The consequences we set down for behavior we find unacceptable should be realistic - in that, the change that we are asking for is something that is within the others power (rather they are willing to take that responsibility is another thing altogether) - and enforceable, something that we are willing to do.

I read you have decided not to share your vulnerabilities with them, have no contact (other than email once in 60 days), turn off you phone on the next Mother's Day,  do not expect to speak to either of them anytime soon, refuse to give your approval, etc. That is fine when this is what you truly want in your heart and it works for you and makes you happy in the end. I just wonder if part of it is reacting to the treatment you have been subjected to and is therefore coming from the resentment you might feel.

I agree with you I've gone through a lot of pain, I wouldn't be on this website if that wasn't the case.

As for setting down boundaries, in terms of words, etc., that's a total waste of time with people who are toxic.  They will twist your words and message and it's just another piece of "ammunition" for the "we are so hard done by dept.".

The type of behaviour that I've been dealing with for almost 2 years is abusive.  Not financially abusive because I didn't let it happen.  Emotionally abusive, without a doubt and with malice from them both.  I don't think I'm reacting to the treatment, except in a way to protect myself.  I don't see myself as resentful, I see myself as putting up the barriers to protect myself from any further abuse.

I don't believe you undo a lifetime of conditioning on the part of my future DIL's family to expect the universe to revolve around her and to have everyone else in her life pick up the tab for ridiculous extravagance.  I've never known anyone to buy 10 nightgowns at a time, well, maybe Jackie O.  Just another day for her.

The difficult part is that I have come, and am still working on coming to terms with is that the relationship that I had with my son and her is over.  The relationship as I knew it.  If there is to be a new relationship, it will be forget over time and it is unlikely that I will ever trust them 100% again.  I can think of many sets of circumstances where their best interests were what they were interested in at the expense of my best interests.  Toxic.  This is not the way that people who truly care about you treat you.  (If you allow them to)

If I afford them the opportunity to keep in touch with me from a minimal point of view, that's still more than I have to.  I could, if I chose, walk away completely and wish them well in their marriage and future and "drive on".  I've chosen not to do that.  I've chosen to make it clear to them/her in actions that any controlling type behaviour will be met with a wall of silence.  Actions speak louder than words.

This isn't much different from an abusive relationship where a husband batters a woman into submission.  The players have slightly different roles, but it is still a family setting where a victim (that would be me, and in a way, my son) submit to the constant, unreasonable demands of a perpetrator (my future DIL) who will never be pleased no matter what.

If my son has chosen to marry her, put up with her and take the consequences, so be it.  I never agreed to put up with this.  After more than 5 years of treating her with every courtesy, kindness, and a generous heart in every way, that department is closed.  It is closed because of their bad behavior.  Those are their consequences and if they don't like it, tough luck.

It's been agony for me to realize that my son (who up until 2 years ago) treated me with every courtesy, respect and wouldn't take a nickel from me has not been turned into this resentful, cold, perhaps even hateful individual.  He has morphed into someone that I need to protect myself from.  Very, very sad, but the writing is on the wall and I'm not going to ignore it.

Giving them "wiggle room" is foolhardy in my opinion, that's like giving a bullet to someone who has a gun instead of a dozen bullets.  If you are a mature adult you don't need "wiggle room", which is just another form of indulgence that parents have given these spoiled brats.  You need to GROW UP and act like an adult.  Stand on your own two feet, and when YOU have been emotionally abusive to someone who has given you nothing but kindness and generosity for 5 years, the apologies should be coming my way from them both.

I'm no longer in the behavior modification department, my years of raising a child are over.  I'm in the "getting on with my life, and having a great time" timeframe.  If I don't allow them a reply for 60 days it's because I don't need the toxic kids to spray their toxicity more frequently, because they are resentful and angry that they won't be treated like the Princess and her Prince and wish to "punish" me for not recognizing what they deserve.  THEIR expectations are the problem, totally outlandish and unlikely to change while anyone else continues to meet them.

There is no room in my life/heart for toxic people.  That I've even decided to leave a sliver of opportunity to keep in touch with me is all that I'm prepared to do and I'm totally fine with that.  They are lucky to have that but I'm sure won't appreciate that either.  Maybe down the line, but I'm not counting on that any more than I'm counting on winning the lottery to buy my groceries this week.

Change is difficult for everyone, and it is impossible to motivate anyone but yourself.   My expectations are "0" for a relationship with them.  If something better materializes, it's a bonus, if not, I'm ready for it.

Your strength gives me such courage!  Please keep writing.  I too have been devastated by a selfish woman who doesn't want to be a family but who wants to be catered to at all cost, even our lives if necessary.  I've seen my son morph into a cold and uncaring person.  He was the most tenderhearted individual in the world.  This is so hard to get through.  I know it is none of my business but it hurts and I need courage to break free.  It is not easy for a Mother to just say let go and be done with it.  Thank you, Keys Girl, thank you!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on August 01, 2010, 08:16:30 AM
I agree barethere...you give strength to all of us...
and think your attitude is very healthy...your experience is indeed very painful...I have a girlfriend like you...she has very very good repour with all of her DIL's...she is very forgiving, however, she will not allow anyone to use her for a doormat...and she told me that once...that I needed to stop trying to appease everyone and please myself for once...
to just be myself...thank God for her and these women in here...they all helped me a great deal...and even though my DIL and I are now on speaking terms...I have learned to respect her...however, I still want to learn...that is why I'm still coming in this forum...and to also, if I can, help others not to make the same mistakes I did...

please do keep writing...b/c you have a lot to offer and share others...a whole lot...
thank you
Creme
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Alicev on August 01, 2010, 08:45:22 AM

I know that in relationships we often wish that the other person would change. This wish is wasted: we simply cannot change the other person, no matter how hard we try. It's quite a burden to be in charge of others. It feels like our work is never done when our intent is in controlling the actions and words of others. It's exhausting work, too, since our efforts are consistently futile.

It looks to me that you have chosen to detach, which I think is a very healthy way to take care of yourself.

This is an excerpt from Fearless relationships by Karen Casey:

By detaching, we can let go of the opinions and actions of others, recognizing that they reflect the other person and never us. We can allow others to be who they want to be without the complications of our judgements. When we judge others we compromise out ability to make the right choices for our own journey. Detaching with love allows us the opportunity for growth that we deserve. It lets others be alone without condemning them and without creating unnecessary work for ourselves. It conveys in its own language, "You are free to be you. I am here if you want my help."

The gift of this rule is that we avoid getting into the minds of others, a place we have no business being. It is not our job to be anyone else's decision maker, judge, or Higher Power. Each of us has roles to play in other people's lives. However, that doesn't give us license to attach ourselves to the intricacies of each other's journeys. We are sharing this path, nothing more. We honor other people when we let them make their own choices. Each person's journey is specific, we must not interfere. Detachment frees us. Detachment lets us be in charge of ourselves. Detachment is not indifference. Detachment is a lesson common to all of us.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on August 01, 2010, 09:57:49 AM
can you image Faith, if we could all live by this...what a wonderful world it would be...there would be no wars...no hate, no corruption...nothing but  complete harmony....to realize this, is a milestone...

Thank you
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: catchingup on August 01, 2010, 10:12:25 AM
Darling the older we are the closer we are to that---"HEAVEN" 8)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: catchingup on August 01, 2010, 10:15:39 AM
Quote from: Keys Girl on July 30, 2010, 01:24:44 PM
No, I don't need to tell her anything.......she knows.....my son would have told her last year after I read him the "riot act".  That's why she's so mad.....she knows and I suspect that underneath that hostility is a certain mix of envy and jealousy and anger because I won't give her my "goodhousekeeping seal of approval" before she marries my son.  My son isn't getting any medals from me either these days, so they are in it together, a united front of resentment and "so there".....well the peace and quiet department is open again at my house......"so there".  Writing to a magazine, etc. is bad behaviour on my part, I would rather post here and try to help people instead of looking for sympathy.  That stuff always comes back to bite you.



Every once in a while I feel sorry for her, she is so controlling, and tiresome because she's really looking for attention and approval, but that's not going to get me feeling sorry for her......she'll do with bad attention rather than good attention or no attention.

Putting me in the "dog house" is a nasty thing to do....but considering that the "dog house" might have a lock on the inside and I could stay inside as long as I want, they could find themselves in the "be careful what you wish for category".  My wish is to carry on with my life and enjoy it as much as possible.  I don't owe anyone anything, I owe myself the best possible years for however many I have left.

I have altered my plans for the wedding.  Instead of showing up with some big, ugly dude, I will show up with a much younger, handsome man.  Another friend of mine has the whole "duty wedding" and that's what she's doing.  I'll do that too.

"Said I was giving you bad advise" Did not mean it to be serious.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: catchingup on August 01, 2010, 10:21:34 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on July 30, 2010, 06:01:24 PM
I love the idea of your showing up at the wedding with a hunk, dude, fox, hottie  or whatever the current term is. We all know what you mean!  :o  And we can all picture it!   ;D ;D Way to go!!!  8)
If I can achieve what Luise has achieved at her "Magnificiant" age I will have achieved a lot.
Just the right person to run this site---Lovely sense of humour which we all need added sometimes.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Alicev on August 01, 2010, 10:27:21 AM
Quotecan you image Faith, if we could all live by this...what a wonderful world it would be...there would be no wars...no hate, no corruption...nothing but  complete harmony....to realize this, is a milestone...

Thank you


I don't know about all people. But I know that each day is new whether we believe it or not. The miracle isn't that the chance is there: it has always been there. The miracle is what happens when we reach out to embrace it. As long there is life, there is a chance to start over.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on August 01, 2010, 10:46:56 AM
I think that "detachment" is the way to go.  The word itself hadn't popped into my brain but that's what I am striving for.

I am not rejecting, I am not disapproving, but I am not going to be anyone's target for hostility and resentment anymore.

As the old saying goes, if you want to change the output you have to change the input.  I'm not sure exactly what the output will be but I will certainly make sure that my interests are taken care of by me.

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on August 01, 2010, 10:59:11 AM
A dear friend of mine moved far away a few years ago...we no longer share the same daily experiences, etc., and when we talk or email once every year or so I realize that although we're still friends, and have fond memories of times past, we've moved on. It's OK, a natural part of life.

I am trying to see my DS more that way...at first I missed him so much it was almost impossible to bear. He's a great guy, and we'd always had wonderful times together. I always enjoyed discussing current events, history, politics, etc. with him, and we share a similar sense of humor that not everyone appreciates. To have lost my DS due to his marrying a controlling, unkind, shunning DIL is more difficult to overcome than the loss of a friend due to a long-distance move, but I know I can get through it. I refuse to allow DIL & her FOO ruin my life. They're not worth it.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Barbie on August 01, 2010, 11:40:42 AM
I know exactly how you feel.  My DS #1 and I were so close, we had the same interests, same sense of humor, same tastes, etc. and now we have nothing in common. I hate to say this but I don't like being alone with him anymore, I feel so awkward when he's around, I know I gave birth to him and yet it feels like he's a stranger most of the times. He still calls me everyday and I know he's trying to rebuild our relationship but it's so hard after all that's happened. I don't understand what DIL's think they gain from all this, it shows their lack of confidence and immaturity.
I hope things change for the better before too much more time is wasted on all this sillyness.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on August 01, 2010, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: guest1 on August 01, 2010, 11:40:42 AM
I know exactly how you feel.  My DS #1 and I were so close, we had the same interests, same sense of humor, same tastes, etc. and now we have nothing in common. I hate to say this but I don't like being alone with him anymore, I feel so awkward when he's around, I know I gave birth to him and yet it feels like he's a stranger most of the times. He still calls me everyday and I know he's trying to rebuild our relationship but it's so hard after all that's happened. I don't understand what DIL's think they gain from all this, it shows their lack of confidence and immaturity.
I hope things change for the better before too much more time is wasted on all this sillyness.

Exactly, Guest1, my son won't be alone with me and when we are, we both feel very uncomfortable. He has a look of guilt on his face that he can't hide.  We used to have so much fun and so much in common, all the likes and dislikes.  It is just a shame. I am very humiliated for the world to see what everyone thought was the perfect home to not be.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: stilltryen on August 01, 2010, 12:25:02 PM
Quote from: guest1 on August 01, 2010, 11:40:42 AM
I know exactly how you feel.  My DS #1 and I were so close, we had the same interests, same sense of humor, same tastes, etc. and now we have nothing in common. I hate to say this but I don't like being alone with him anymore, I feel so awkward when he's around, I know I gave birth to him and yet it feels like he's a stranger most of the times. He still calls me everyday and I know he's trying to rebuild our relationship but it's so hard after all that's happened. I don't understand what DIL's think they gain from all this, it shows their lack of confidence and immaturity.
I hope things change for the better before too much more time is wasted on all this sillyness.

Don't you find it encouraging that he still calls every day tho?  I'm okay with my DIL, evidently we're never going to be the great friends I thought once we might be, but DS comes over and we either chat on the phone or via computer a lot.  I never, ever bring up DIL.  If he says anything, I respond as non-committal as possible and try to change the subject.  I want him to know that we're always here for the both of them if they need anything, but no, we're not going to bother them, drop by unexpectedly, etc.  One can only do what one can and let the chips fall where they may.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Barbie on August 01, 2010, 01:31:22 PM
The fact that he is committed to calling me everyday tells me that deep down he still cares and wants to have a relationship with his family and yes, it gives me a shred of hope that someday we'll be able to work out our differences but DIL holds all the cards. We haven't meddled in our kid's lives since they were in college and this is another line that she uses, that we didn't care enough about him because we hardly ever visited him while in college and her mother used to visit her often. According to DIL we didn't do anything right, but we raised him and he was good enough to marry. Go figure
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Nana on August 01, 2010, 03:41:36 PM
keys girl:

Your approach to the problem was exactly what I did.  I let go....probably it wasnt because I was so strong.....it was because I couldnt bear to live with dil hurting me over and over again.  I couldnt eat, sleep.....was crying all the time.    Never did I know that when I called my son and told him that it was it....that I didnt want to have a relationship with them for the reasons he already knew....and had witnessed.....that I quitted with a broken heart because I was aware that I wouldnt get to see my precious (the world to me) gc (it was one then).   I cried....he did too....I told him that I would always love him and gc.....and that she couldnt take away from me. 

At first he would come alone with gc....... he would only tell me that she was not doing fine with what had happened....then after some time.....she came to our house and her attitude was another......she stills have her character (who is perfect?)  but we get along very well and are very close now.....go figure.

Sometimes it works out fine standing up for oneself....

In my case, I am sure....If I had permitted her to go on with all those toxic attitudes....things would have never changed. 

I do admire you keysgirl....and Guest1....and catching up, penn....alll of you ladies.  Creme is a wonderful thinker and writer.......Hope and Anna are so sweet.....and my Luise....the heart of this site....wise as can be.

Love you all ladies on this lovely Sunday.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Barbie on August 01, 2010, 04:05:07 PM
Oh Nana, we didn't see our precious GD for 6 months, but for the past few months we get invited from time to time to DS and DIL's house to babysit and DS has been coming to visit us with GD but no DIL. I sure hope someday in the near future DIL starts to come around and we can be a "normal" family again. You sure have given me hope.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on August 01, 2010, 04:44:01 PM
We are all so special. Each of us so unique and every one is willing to be real and to share and care. It's a miracle!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: 1Glitterati on August 01, 2010, 06:53:47 PM
Quote from: guest1 on August 01, 2010, 04:05:07 PM
Oh Nana, we didn't see our precious GD for 6 months, but for the past few months we get invited from time to time to DS and DIL's house to babysit and DS has been coming to visit us with GD but no DIL. I sure hope someday in the near future DIL starts to come around and we can be a "normal" family again. You sure have given me hope.

I hope that you won't say that to your son.  I hope that you really enjoy what is happening now and that you get further visits.  I would be afraid that if you share that hope...that what you have now will be scaled back.

I say this as a dil who really has no plans to be part of my il's lives again.  I know that it will sound harsh to most...and I'm okay with that.   I don't ever want to be around them for anything if I can help it at all.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on August 01, 2010, 07:57:20 PM
Quote from: 1Glitterati on August 01, 2010, 06:53:47 PM
Quote from: guest1 on August 01, 2010, 04:05:07 PM
Oh Nana, we didn't see our precious GD for 6 months, but for the past few months we get invited from time to time to DS and DIL's house to babysit and DS has been coming to visit us with GD but no DIL. I sure hope someday in the near future DIL starts to come around and we can be a "normal" family again. You sure have given me hope.

I hope that you won't say that to your son.  I hope that you really enjoy what is happening now and that you get further visits.  I would be afraid that if you share that hope...that what you have now will be scaled back.

I say this as a dil who really has no plans to be part of my il's lives again.  I know that it will sound harsh to most...and I'm okay with that.   I don't ever want to be around them for anything if I can help it at all.

I hope she comes around too, Guest.  You deserve that but if she doesn't, I think it's her loss. Easy to say, I know.  I'll bet the visits from your son are less stressed without her.  You've done nothing wrong that I can see to warrant this.  But, like you say, if she deems it not to be, it won't be. 
Wow, just wow.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Hope on August 01, 2010, 08:12:20 PM
This has been a great thread!  Lots to think about and strengthening to the soul.  Thanks, everyone!
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: catchingup on August 02, 2010, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on August 01, 2010, 04:44:01 PM
We are all so special. Each of us so unique and every one is willing to be real and to share and care. It's a miracle!

Imagine the lot of us together for l lunch.
Who would have the first and last word??
Wow we will be there for a few years before we are done ;D
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on August 24, 2010, 02:39:53 PM
Quote from: Keys Girl on July 27, 2010, 05:04:49 AM
Thank you very much to everyone for their feedback.

I don't speak to them on the phone because they don't call me and when I call my son says "I'll call you back in 20 minutes and doesn't".......

It's curious to me that they are being oh so hostile BEFORE their wedding.  I never thought I would think this but attending the wedding is not high on my priority list, especially since the bride deliberately schedule the date to coincide with a big charity event that I work for every year......."oh, I thought it was around then......." was her subtly hostile reply when I found out the date.

Keys Girl, you just don't know how much you lift my spirits when you post. You're so strong and have what

At this point in time, I will deal with them via email........maybe once every 2 months, that's 6 times a year, and send emails to them for birthdays, Christmas and make a donation to a charity.  Last year when it was my birthday, no phone call, no email, no nothing.  On Mother's Days, no card, no flowers, but my son did make a phone call late in the day to wish me Happy Mother's Day.

Now that my son is into his 30's, I expect more.  His GF has a habit of calling him constantly if he is with me alone (like once every 3 years).  One year on Mother's Day, he came to my apartment which was across the city to wish me Mother's Day (no card, etc.) and she phone him 23 times in the 30 minutes he was with me.

I'm not going to worry about the whole "be nice to us or you won't see your grandchildren"........that game works both ways, "Be polite and courteous to me or their grandmother may be on the other side of the globe, helping out other people's children in a refugee camp".

I think these DILs live for the fight, so they can prove to the MILs that they are the "Boss"......I can't get an enduring portrait of her dressed as Hitler in a little mustache and a "Sieg Heil" salute out of my mind. 

She is who she is, and since her parents have spoiled her and catered to her every whim, she's expecting me to do the same.  I have done my best for 5 years, buying gifts, dinners, etc., etc. but no longer.  My son was not brought up that way (I brought him up on my own) and while there were many times when he was growing up that I was so proud of him that I thought my heart would burst out of my chest, this is definitely not one of them....I have to say that I've been overwhelmingly sad in the last 2 months, it's like a death in the family, and it is, the death of my son as the person who I thought he was and I now I have to deal with the reality that who he has become, under the thumb of "she who must be obeyed" and too passive to stand up to treat his mother with basic courtesy is not a pretty picture.  While there were many things about my ex-husband that I didn't like, he never would have tolerated me being bold and demanding with his mother, and I wouldn't have considered it let alone followed through on it, MY mother would have had a fit.

This future DIL is looking for the squabble, so she can get her jollies.  She won't get it from me.  The only thing she will get from me is distance, geographical and otherwise and the bare minimum of courtesy.  I'm not going to sit down with them and try to be honest.  There's no point, her constant stronplague of phone calls is indicative of someone with "stalker" type tendencies and being honest with those people is always a big mistake.  Knowledge is power and I won't give her any more knowledge other than the fact that I am still on the planet, which I will make sure she gets every 60 days.

I have decided that since I live some distance away from them, I won't make to effort to drive to see them, stay with them or have/buy meals for/with them.  They have never come to visit me, despite my many invitations.  I will deal with them via email alone, and likely will decide to attend the wedding......but will hire a big, ugly, burly motor cycle gang type actor dude as my escort.  I'm not looking forward to spending a minute with my ex-husband now that his long term relationship has ended, with the whole emotional "Oh don't they look lovely together"......so me and "Tiny" can arrive, stay as long as necessary for the ceremony, photos, speeches and then skeedadle on the back of his Harley.  He can count his earnings for the wedding gig and then I will go to a lovely hotel for a massage and spa treatment followed by a quiet evening in the company of a couple of wonderful friends.

It's very sad, disappointing and not the way I had expected that things would work out.  As my aunt said to me "I'm sorry to have to say this to you, but "That's life".

You are so strong Keys Girl and I gain strength just listening to your words. You never know whose heart you're going to touch. Your'e the smartest, strongest person I've read on this board.  Thank you for your wisdom
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on August 24, 2010, 06:24:56 PM
Barely There, I don't think it's a good idea to point me out as the "smartest, whatever". 

First of all, Luise set the Board up as as far as I'm concerned she's the Queen and will always be the smartest, wisest of all the women here. 

I'm happy to be here and to accept the advice given to me and to try to help others.  I'm writing from my ongoing experience as is everyone else.  My advice may or may not be helpful to people, you never know, it's up to everyone to accept, interpret and then act on whatever they feel works for them.  If you've gained some help from my words, then I'm pleased but please don't single me out for so much praise.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions and I don't want to help anyone get on that road.


Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on August 24, 2010, 06:55:40 PM
Quote from: Keys Girl on August 24, 2010, 06:24:56 PM
Barely There, I don't think it's a good idea to point me out as the "smartest, whatever". 

First of all, Luise set the Board up as as far as I'm concerned she's the Queen and will always be the smartest, wisest of all the women here. 

I'm happy to be here and to accept the advice given to me and to try to help others.  I'm writing from my ongoing experience as is everyone else.  My advice may or may not be helpful to people, you never know, it's up to everyone to accept, interpret and then act on whatever they feel works for them.  If you've gained some help from my words, then I'm pleased but please don't single me out for so much praise.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions and I don't want to help anyone get on that road.

I agree; although the words help me, they might not be what someone else needs. I won't do it again. They are important to me, though.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on August 24, 2010, 07:44:58 PM
Hey, I read what you said about KeysGirl and speaking for myself, I wasn't offended at all. I think she's pretty smart, too. We've got a diverse bunch here and what works for one might not work for another. However, it's probably best to let Luise be the "bestest, wisest."  ;D

I love you all!!!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on August 25, 2010, 03:41:56 AM
I'm right there with you, I love to read Keys Girl's posts....she is wise and has helped me a lot....wish this forum was here when I had terrible problems with my DIL....however, it had been going on a long time....while in the hate sites...some of the DIL's really hammered me hard....and I gotta admit, while it hurt, it really did set me to thinking....Key's Girl is right, this is Luise's Baby...and I am indebted to her & Kirk for not only this wonderful site, but for they're time invested in us....and for all the lovely ladies who are here....you're all very wise....

Thank you....

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on August 25, 2010, 04:16:33 AM
Creme, what was done to you on those sites, no human being should be subjected to, much less a grieving Mother.  While I'm glad things are better for you and your DIL, it isn't because the women on those sites helped you.  I watched them and their cruelty knew no bounds.  No mercy.  Yes, this is Luise's baby and she deserves all the praise but Keys Girl, to me, has much to say, says it in a strong way and I gain strength from her posts but I'm sure all all this praise is embarrassing to her.  So I shall quit that and, like the British say,  have courage and carry on.  (Sniff)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on August 25, 2010, 05:06:41 AM
Quote from: barelythere on August 25, 2010, 04:16:33 AM
Creme, what was done to you on those sites, no human being should be subjected to, much less a grieving Mother.  While I'm glad things are better for you and your DIL, it isn't because the women on those sites helped you.  I watched them and their cruelty knew no bounds.  No mercy.  Yes, this is Luise's baby and she deserves all the praise but Keys Girl, to me, has much to say, says it in a strong way and I gain strength from her posts but I'm sure all all this praise is embarrassing to her.  So I shall quit that and, like the British say,  have courage and carry on.  (Sniff)

yes, it was partically because they hammered me.....some of them were brutal, others were just very outspoken and really meant no harm and got annoyed b/c I wasn't getting it.  Sometimes, me personally, I need someone to walk up and hit me with a 2 x 4 to get my attention, and while they were hateful and unkind, intollerant....I surely did drop back and tried to see things from they're point of view.  They're not all wrong barely there....not all of them....they just had a difficult time believing that there are caring mil's out there who are in the same situation as they are....some of them will never get it, to some of them, being a follower was more important to them, then standing up for they're own personal institutions and leaving the herd behind....but, as you've seen here, some of them are here....willing to listen and admit they're mistakes even if they're mistakes only consist of not understanding what is going on?  They are learning how to cope with what they've got to work with...and sometimes, that's all a person can do....

But, yes, there were many things that attributed to me, understanding my DIL and mustering up the courage to discuss it with her....but some of those DIL's did help me along somewhat....they're not all bad....Barely there....they're just lost and handle it the only way they know how, with hate, vulgar language, etc....but inside they are hurting just as much as we are....

Hugs
Creme
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on August 25, 2010, 11:14:22 AM
What I have asked for here is to move past violent reactions, attacks and viciousness. Those are ways to express pain, I agree. For some it is probably a very healing experience to "let it all hang out." People need those sites.

Beyond that, I honestly think there are other ways to deal with loss and to heal on some level. I see love as more powerful than hate...but that's just me. And I think self-love is often where healing begins. For me at least, when I become enraged, it hurts me. It makes me sick. The person I am furious with isn't hurt by it, I am. Maybe that's just me.

I am not the Guru here...I'm the facilitator. I created this site to attract wise women and I think it has. We are all wise at times and in need of the wisdom of others at other times. Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on September 14, 2010, 03:43:07 PM
Here's a brief update.

In the last few days I have found out that my blood pressure levels are now at elevated levels to the point where my doctor has told me there is a risk of heart attack if I attend the wedding, reception and usual hoopla.  My father died of a heart attack at 67 and that gives me a predisposition to heart disease.  I've been fighting high blood pressure for 5 years but this is the worst it has ever been.  I suspect the past year of cruel hostilities has taken it's toll on me in ways that I didn't expect.

My doctor has advised me that I should only attend the wedding vows and leave immediately.  While there is a chance of a heart attack, it is more likely that an aneurism or angina type crisis could occur if I went to everything.

I'll be taking her advice and at this point in time, I don't care if anyone on the planet is bothered by it.  Her advice included that phrase "Stay away from anyone who upsets/angers you".  I'll be taking this advice and take any measures I have to in order to protect my health and extend my life expectancy.

I have yet to tell my son and future DIL, about this.  it's a bit of a shock to realize that I believe this past year's emotional warfare has had an effect on my health that I hadn't expected.

My doctor's orders have taken a lot of the stress off my shoulders that I was feeling over the impending nuptials but if my son and future DIL's plan over the last year was to cause me grief and pain, they accomplished their goal.  If I'm not at the wedding reception watching them during their first dance, it's because their efforts to try to push me around led to some unexpected consequences.

The only people with whom you should try to get even are those who have helped you.  John E. Southard
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on September 14, 2010, 03:48:17 PM
Stress is a killer. Take care of yourself and to heck with them!!! Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Barbie on September 14, 2010, 07:08:33 PM
Keys Girl, I'm sorry you're going through this. Please take care of yourself.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on September 14, 2010, 07:57:55 PM
Yes, KeysGirl, please take care.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on September 16, 2010, 05:06:02 AM
Thanks for the good wishes, I'll be erring on the side of caution, and having minimal contact with the "kids" going forward.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on September 16, 2010, 05:48:14 AM
Keys, I'm so sorry this is happening to you, but thankful you went to the doctors....your most certainly going to have to listen....
I'm worried about you telling them, what will you do if they get upset?

wouldn't it be better to have someone else tell them?  And tell them everything that the doctor has said?  I really think you should consider not getting involved at all....and coming from someone else, might also, let them know, the seriousness of your condition....so that they are warned to not act out or confrontational

Love to you
Creme
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on September 16, 2010, 06:07:44 AM
I agree with Creme, Keys Girl.  Look after your need only in this situation. The toll this has taken is really bad.  It always is. 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on September 17, 2010, 07:30:51 AM
To Creme and Barely there, I've sent my son an email and told him I would telephone him in about 6 weeks.

At this point in time, I expect that my future DIL won't believe that my heart issues are something to worry about, that I'm likely doing this for "attention" and to "get out of " attending their wedding.  I don't care what she thinks anymore.  I'm taking of myself and that's all there is to it.  I don't have any plans to spend much time with them on the phone or in person for the next year, I'm going to spend a year recuperating from last year's hostilities and just have plans to take care of myself and it's my way or the highway as the old saying goes.

There are probably many women whose health (emotional as well as physical) has been affected negatively by these hostile, rebellious and aggressive inlaws or future inlaws.

Good luck on anyone trying to push me around again, you would have better luck in raising the Titanic in one piece and thanks for the notes from the women here, it's really a comfort.



Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on September 17, 2010, 07:49:33 AM
Quote from: Keys Girl on September 17, 2010, 07:30:51 AM
To Creme and Barely there, I've sent my son an email and told him I would telephone him in about 6 weeks.

At this point in time, I expect that my future DIL won't believe that my heart issues are something to worry about, that I'm likely doing this for "attention" and to "get out of " attending their wedding.  I don't care what she thinks anymore.  I'm taking of myself and that's all there is to it.  I don't have any plans to spend much time with them on the phone or in person for the next year, I'm going to spend a year recuperating from last year's hostilities and just have plans to take care of myself and it's my way or the highway as the old saying goes.

There are probably many women whose health (emotional as well as physical) has been affected negatively by these hostile, rebellious and aggressive inlaws or future inlaws.

Good luck on anyone trying to push me around again, you would have better luck in raising the Titanic in one piece and thanks for the notes from the women here, it's really a comfort.

Keys, you did the right thing, and very elegantly to, we can't control the thoughts of others....so, who cares what she thinks at this point, right?

Lady, what  your doing takes strength, and is the absolute best thing to do for you...

just know, it's YOUR life and no one else's....and sometimes we've got to make some unpopular decissions to survive....

I truly hope you go forward living life to the fullest....laughing all the way....belly laughs, surround yourself with positivity, and love.

big hugs....
creme
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on September 17, 2010, 08:14:55 AM
KeysGirl...of course you know you made the right decision.  It is going to be hard because you're right, this will make them think you're using this for "show".  PFFFFFT!! Big screaming deal!  They don't know and what they don't know is just fine.  You are taking care of you this time and good for you.  All of us are learning that we count in this play we're all in.  We are the stars in them.  I'm so glad you're not going.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on September 18, 2010, 07:47:52 AM
Thanks everyone, I'm going to move forward and add as much laughter, joy and good deeds to my life and anyone in it.  I don't find this anywhere near as difficult as I have found the last year to be so heartbreakingly (who knew?) painful.  I'm not the object of cruelty anymore on the part of people that I hold dear.  I am the object of protecting and extending my life expectancy. My doctor made it clear "It is your life and your health".  I'm putting on my "big girl panties and I'll deal with it".

If anyone wants to be included in my life, they will have to pass the audition, (I hold them every week) because I know that I will suffer the consequences (pun intended) if they wish to have their agenda of hostility or any other negative emotion take pride of place over my agenda of generosity of spirit, laughing and making others laugh all the way.  No exceptions for nobaaaaaaady.


Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cadagi101 on September 18, 2010, 04:35:46 PM
reading your posts key girl has been rather sad.  The saddest outcome in all this is your health having suffered throughout all the trauma  and nastiness that has surrounded you the past year.    Hooray to your last post today, it's inspiring to us all....it sounds as though you are committed to keep on this track of awareness for yourself....stick to your resolve....if you hit a hurdle come back here and many WW can offer you advice...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on September 19, 2010, 02:12:44 PM
I suppose I should have expected this........but I really didn't.

I received a long and tiresome email today from my son's fiancee, which goes on to tell me that my son is not dealing well with the news that my health isn't the best, I'm not going to their wedding (not entirely correct, I am going to the vows) and he isn't welcome to contact me until I contact him in about 6 weeks.

Eventually after paragraph after paragraph of guilt inducing prose she tells me (as usual) that since their wedding is year away that I should do everything in my power to be there because my son perceives this news to be a sign that I disapprove of their union and since I'm so loved and adored by them both, this is causing them some stress.

I am so angry right now that she would do this that I'm tempted to go talk to the police about this.  I can see that keeping her(them) out of my life is going to be somewhat more difficult but not impossible than I thought.........

The line in the letter that angers me the most is "Do whatever you can to get to the wedding otherwise you will miss much".......I'm counting on missing much, like a trip to a hospital in a white truck with flashing red lights.

At this point in time I'm not going to reply to the letter, it's just the usual "I speak for your son, so I'm telling you what you need to do".  I will however block her from my email program and check my phone before I answer it.  I was just starting to settle into some peace and quiet and never, ever expected her to do this.   She's a nasty piece of work, but she's not going to push me around.  I feel sorry for my son, he's really in deep weeds in the cesspool of brides but the ring is expected to be on his finger, not through my nose and she's about as difficult to get away from as a hoard of locusts.

I'm so grateful that the WW are here to vent to, it's a comfort.

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on September 19, 2010, 03:04:15 PM
Good for you for blocking her email address and not answering the phone. No way are you going to enable her! This is the time for you to heal and get on with your life. You deserve so much better! Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on September 19, 2010, 03:59:26 PM
KeysGirl, I can imagine how you're feeling right now and I am happy that you are being proactive in taking care of yourself.  I know it's not easy but you are strong. 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on September 19, 2010, 05:30:23 PM
Quote from: Keys Girl on September 19, 2010, 02:12:44 PM
...but the ring is expected to be on his finger, not through my nose...

Best line ever!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: barelythere on September 19, 2010, 05:36:01 PM
Quote from: Pen on September 19, 2010, 05:30:23 PM
Quote from: Keys Girl on September 19, 2010, 02:12:44 PM
...but the ring is expected to be on his finger, not through my nose...

Best line ever!

Ditto!!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on September 20, 2010, 07:04:29 AM
Keys Girl, please take care of yourself, and know, while easier said then done, you can do this....you will do this, because you are loved by so many people who wish to make you laugh...so, stick to your guns....
Are you married?

If you are, why don't you let your husband talk to your son...men seem to be able to get it across to one another....

or have your doctor call your son, I bet he will...that way, no stone is unturned and DIL to be cannot dictate to you what she expects.....

Oh my, so so many contradictive and angry people in this world.....

Hugs and love
Creme
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on September 20, 2010, 10:31:21 AM
Thanks for the notes everyone, and Creme, I don't have a husband or any guy and I'm not going to waste a minute calling Dr. Phil, (he talks about MILs but not DILs......he's missing at least one boat).

In the meantime I'm going to do whatever it takes to keep and maintain my health going forward.  My sense of humour is getting me through this. 

This is a test of wills and she's using every weapon at her disposal, including emotional cruelty towards my son.  Very sad, but I won't allow anyone on the planet into my life anymore unless they meet my standards.  That she would be so bold and brazen to send me such a obviously manipulative and cruel letter lets me know that my instincts about her are right but that I underestimated her hostility.

I think of myself as a fortress now, big stone bricks that arrows or cannon cannot penetrate.  I won't think about the cruelty that she is bragging about dishing out to my son, which will continue and likely escalate if I don't jump to her tune.

I will think about my life and my health.  That's the only thing on my agenda.

No one is going to mess with that.........as I said before ..........no exceptions for nobaaaaady........
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on September 20, 2010, 10:53:22 AM
QuoteKeys Girl
Thanks for the notes everyone, and Creme, I don't have a husband or any guy and I'm not going to waste a minute calling Dr. Phil, (he talks about MILs but not DILs......he's missing at least one boat).

I was really hoping you did, so that he could call your son and DIL first hand and explain the whle situation to them....sometimes it's easier for some to bully a single woman then both parents. 

Yanno, when I refer to doctor Phil, I mean, I like the way he comes right out and tells you....however, he's not perfect and there have been times I've disagreed with him, and your right, he does favor DIL's, which is upsetting.

QuoteThat she would be so bold and brazen to send me such a obviously manipulative and cruel letter lets me know that my instincts about her are right but that I underestimated her hostility.

She is unable to look beyond herself.

QuoteI won't think about the cruelty that she is bragging about dishing out to my son,

Someday, this is all going to come back to haunt her...you don't treat people like this and get away with it.

Keys, I wish you all the best....please stay well...

Hugs
Creme
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pooh on September 20, 2010, 10:57:54 AM
It's better to live one day as a lion, than a hundred as a sheep -- Benito Mussollini
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Scoop on September 20, 2010, 11:31:22 AM
Wait .... Keys, how is it nasty that DIL wrote you a note saying your DS was having a hard time dealing with the news that your health isn't good?  Maybe it's the first time he's considered your mortality and he is freaked.

It sounded to me like she was asking you to work on your health (over the next year) so that you could go to the whole wedding, because they BOTH want you there.  How is that bad?

I know it's hard, but there are ways to get your blood pressure under control, exercise, weight loss, low sodium diet, ect.  I know it's hard (oh man, I know it's hard) but to someone who's never had health problems (your FDIL for example) it doesn't seem that way.  They would never tell an anorexic to "just eat a sandwich already" but they don't have a problem telling someone to eat less and exercise more.

I don't know Keys, it sounds like they really want you at their wedding.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on September 20, 2010, 12:10:19 PM
Scoop, nowhere in the letter was there a shred of genuine concern about me.  If you have knowledge that someone is having blood pressure problems, sending them a multi-paragraph "see here, do this or you will lose your son" isn't the way to go, a blatant threat but it a step in the right direction if you would like to see me in the hospital bed before/during the wedding.  Any by the way, my son's been lost for some time.  It's difficult for me recognize the person that I remember in the sea of lame excuses, lies and expectations that I jump through a dozen hoops for them both without so much as a "thank you".

I didn't receive a reply from my son, he could have sent me a note saying that he was thinking about me and would respect my wishes.  Actions speak louder than words.  A bouquet of flowers has yet to arrive at my door, with a card that says "I love you, Mom, I care about you and I'll talk to you when you are feeling up to it".

If he's having a hard time coping with the possibility that I could be seriously ill, then I'm not sure his tears are from concern for me or if they are because she is being emotionally abusive to him and using me as the weapon.  Either way he's going to shed enough tears to float the Titanic if he marries her.

Unless I have a heart transplant in the next year, it is not possible to "work" on my heart health so that I could go to the whole wedding hoopla.  I have been fighting this for 5 years now and even just going to the vows is not without risk of a heart related complication because it is so stressful.   

The bottom line is I no longer care what anyone else on the planet wants including my son.  I'm now focussing on my own life and wants, not theirs.

I want to extend my life expectancy and will listen to my doctor and my own instincts to make that happen.

I don't care if it's a wedding or the awarding of a Nobel prize, if I think it will be too stressful, I won't go.

Change is difficult for everyone, but I'm the one with the most to lose, so everyone else is going to have to get over it, and get used to it. 



Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: miss_priss on September 20, 2010, 01:02:39 PM
KeysGirl - it sounds like your mind is made up and there's no bending for you.  I understand that your health is a concern, but I must kindly agree that being told a year out from my wedding date that MIL wouldn't "be able" to attend (other than only for the vows)....well, I really would take that personally as well. 

I have to ask you this, because your stubborness sounds so familiar...

Does your hatred for your FDIL out-weigh your love for your son?  I'm sorry that is so blunt, but really?  Why wouldn't you be there to celebrate the happiest day of his life?  Sure, you have your apprehensions, you have your reasons for disliking her, and you've made it clear that it won't be the happiest day of YOUR life...but completely discarding their wedding celebration.....a YEAR out?  It sounds like both of them want you to be there, and have voiced that to you.  I think its very unreasonable of you, sick or not, to "bow out" of celebrating their special day...especially this far in advance.  Is it because you can't celebrate?  Are you afraid of seeing others who are genuinely happy for them?  I can't imagine how hurt your son must be, I know I would be devastated.  How could someone NOT take that personally?

I am very sorry that this comes accross so harsh.  I agree that your situation with your son and FDIL is pretty messed up, but it sounds like YOU are closing the door on them and hiding behind the excuse of your poor health.  I agree that we all need some space from time to time, and for your healths's sake, PLEASE do take some time and space away from them!  I'm just saying maybe you should re-think your reaction to their invitation, that's all.         
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on September 21, 2010, 08:49:59 AM
Miss Priss.......first of all I don't hate my future daughter-in-law, I have better things to do with my life that hate people, that's a stupid thing to do.......I think she is a product of jellyfish parents who condoned her bad behaviour as cute, and didn't teach her that she is not in a position to dictate to anyone how they spend 10 minutes of their life........there is an issue with separation here, she is not able to separate her "the world has to revolve around me" conditioning with the world's right to live their own lives as they please, every single minute of the day.  She's like one of those whiny brats who kicks the back of your seat through a 6 hour airplane flight while the mother says "Isn't she cute?".  This "flight" is a whole lot longer than 6 hours and I don't have the ability to pull the chute and slide to the tarmac with a couple of beers like that West Jet dude did. 

I didn't have to tell anyone anything.  I told them this early because I knew there would be the whole nine yards of upset and I wanted to give them enough lead time to get used to it and get over it.  I could have just decided to leave after the vows and have them deal with the upset on their wedding day, that would have been nasty, but I chose not to do that.

Why should my son's wedding be the happiest day of MY life? That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read.  There are so many days in my life up to date that I would have to sit down for 20 minutes to determine which one was the happiest.  Even if he was marrying someone that I really liked I can't see HIS wedding day as being the happiest day of my life, perhaps MINE if it were to happens in the future. 

I'm not living his life and I've made a point of not living vicariously through my son as a mother who doesn't have an interesting life of her own.  Why have you jumped to the assumption that it is going to be the happiest day of his? He's been asking me subtle questions about how to get out of this since a couple of months after he married her........doesn't sound like he's looking forward to the happiest (?) day of his life to me, and to jump to assumptions is a sure road to trouble on your part.

There's a difference between hiding behind an excuse (which I don't need to do because I don't ever have to justify anything to anyone, because I'm an adult not a child) and taking care of your health.  I am not reacting, I am responding to do what I need to do to prolong my life expectancy and avoid a stroke and a stay in a hospital bed for the next dozen years to attend a wedding reception.  It's risk management.  If you drink and drive you'll probably kill someone.  If you don't drink and get behind the wheel you probably wont.  It's not stubborness, it's being smart.  If it sounds familiar, well the note of your note sounds familiar too.....I would remove that "I'm sorry to be so harsh" phrase, from my vocabulary if I were you.  It's comes across a somewhat condescending.  There is no need to be harsh unless you choose to be and by apologizing in advance of it, it's meant to "soften the blow" before it arrives. I'm pretty sure that phrase was in the "shape up and show up" letter. 

Everyone on the planet who doesn't like what I do with my life is welcome to take that personally, but that's energy that they won't be devoting to their own lives.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on September 21, 2010, 10:41:00 AM
Atta Girl, Keys Girl!!! Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on September 21, 2010, 10:42:43 AM
Keys
Just know your in my thoughts....
keep writing....
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: miss_priss on September 21, 2010, 12:04:30 PM
Keys - I'm sorry if you felt like I was attacking you.  It is sometimes very hard for me to remove myself from my own situation in order to learn from it and share positive advice with others.  Its especially hard for me when I read your posts.  When I read your posts I have to read them twice, because you are so much like my MIL in your wording, your mannerisms, your sturdy and "unmovable" demeanor, and your uncanny ability to cut others off at their knees.  You sure took mine out from under me, but I probably deserved at least a little of that.  "Atta girl!" 

And you know what, I applaud you.  For taking a stand for yourself, and for your health.  Good for you.         

I still think you are also being very unreasonable (as are they), but we can agree to disagree.  I hope you feel better, and I hope both parties in your story come around.  It sounds like a real tug-o-war where no one will win and everyone loses.  Best of luck to you.     
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on September 21, 2010, 01:10:11 PM
MP - Good for you. We all need t step back a little when the threads here come a little too close to home. Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Hope on September 21, 2010, 08:10:32 PM
Keys Girl,
That's bad news that your health is taking a turn for the worse - you have to take care of yourself!!!  It doesn't look like your ds/fdil are going to be of much support there.  They have been the source of stress causing your health to falter and you are smart to step back.  I'm not an expert in medical issues, but if your doctor knows the wedding is a year away and still instructs you to only go to the vows - you better believe you better only go to the vows.  I understand that it's a big day for them, but I also understand that you are even taking a risk going to the vows.  I don't believe that your doctor would have such a strong position against you going to the reception if it wasn't a big risk to you - what does he have to gain by telling you that if it's not true?  You are so right to take care of your health - sounds like your heart condition is very serious.  I don't think Scoop and Miss Priss understand the depth of your health issues.  I'm sure they wouldn't want you to risk your life by attending the reception.  It seems like they think you are just trying to get out of the wedding b/c you don't like your fdil.  I don't think your doctor is trying to get back at fdil/ds - your doctor has a vested interest in your health.  Follow the doctor's orders and stay as calm as possible.  We want to keep you around b/c you are valuable to us.
Love ya!  Hope
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on September 21, 2010, 08:51:45 PM
Yes, and we have a vested interest in your health, too. "We are Famileeeey..."
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pooh on September 22, 2010, 05:26:24 AM
"I've got all my Sistas with me....."
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on September 22, 2010, 05:29:28 AM
yes, you do.... ;)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pooh on September 22, 2010, 05:30:59 AM
Hee hee...just helping Luise out.  Karoke is only fun if you have multiple fools.... ;D
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on September 22, 2010, 07:17:22 AM
 ;D  8)  :o
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on September 22, 2010, 07:25:51 AM
Thanks for the support folks, and MP, I'm not your MIL so re-reading my posts is going to put you in the same spot that I am in about 30 years, so I would stay away from that and not put yourself on the road to blood pressure problems.

I'm decided that I'm going to hire a para-medic to go to the vows with me.  I feel better already, knowing that I'll have a trained medical professional sitting beside with all the necessary equipment close by if needed.  If it is not needed, so much the better.

A friend of mine had 3 heart attacks in a row at the age of 33.  He flat lined on table and the doctors "brought him back".  I know from personal experience that it's much better to not go looking for trouble and would like to share some info about women and heart disease.

A.  The symptoms for heart attack/other heart issue are not the classic signs in men, with heavy pain in the chest area and shooting pain down the right arm.  Some women may have those symptoms but they may not and could instead have: profuse sweating, nausea and shortness of breath or hyperventilation among others. 
B.  Some older doctors who were not recently trained have not recognized that their female patients are in trouble.  Some women have gone to hospitals, only to be told they are experiencing food poisoning and some have been turned away after one or multiple heart attacks because some medical professionals didn't connect the dots. 
C.  The recovery and rehab for women after heart attacks shows a pronounced lower success and survival rate.
D. My understanding is that approximately 25% of people having a heart attack die on the spot.  There is no 2nd chance for them.
E. There is a strong correlation between poor dental health and heart disease.  The type of plaque that grows on your teeth is the same type that can build up in your arteries. 
F. Heart problems run in families, if you have a relative in your immediate family who has had heart problems, then you need to be vigilant.
G. Some women have had heart attacks in their 30s, this is no longer an "older man's disease".  While women don't have equal pay for equal work in many industries, we now have equal health issues.
H. This is my own memory and interpretation of the information that I have picked up in recent memory.  It's a guideline for me and only meant to bring some awareness to others.  The exact details and percentages, etc. are available on the web, but I don't need to know the exact numbers.

I would prefer not to have to think about my blood pressure.  I wish I could bring back the days when I was 25 and felt invincible, secure in the knowledge that my body was young and healthy and I would never get sick.  I wish my metabolism worked the same way when I could eat 5 chocolate cakes and never gain a pound, but the years have flown by and now I need to make an effort to do the right things, change my diet, exercise, stay away from alcohol and avoid stress inducing circumstances.  That increases the odds that my grandchildren will actually get to meet me.

So, I'm off to the gym to work off a few pounds.


Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on September 22, 2010, 07:36:45 AM
I have learned that I can reduce my blood pressure by doing meditation and bio-feedback. :)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on September 22, 2010, 04:46:25 PM
Thanks Luise, will give that a try.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: grammyto2 on October 02, 2010, 02:15:52 PM
I know this sounds BAD... but my son has been living with someone similar, and I keep saying, hurry up and get married so they can get divorced... and believe me I hate divorce, i'm a victim of divorce growing up, and I know how much it hurts, but in bad relationships, its the only way.  They have to figure it out...but in the mean time, my ds has been living with gf off and on for 5 years... I just wish they'd get hitched and get un-hitched so we all can move on with our lives... I know, i know it sounds bad... sorry
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on October 02, 2010, 02:38:20 PM
Hey, Grammyto2, your thoughts are your thoughts. No judgment here - just don't tell your DS and his GF what you're thinking. You will have to work on it though, since most wedding ceremonies implore the witnesses to suppport the marriage and not undermine it. Practice your best MOTG smile :) You never know, your feelings may change and your DS & his GF may mature with marriage. If not, at least you will have taken the high road. Best wishes!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: grammyto2 on October 02, 2010, 02:53:22 PM
Hi Pen
Thank you for the validation... Oh believe me, I've learned to (kmms) keep my mouth shut :) and PUT ON A HAPPY FACE, i'm a good actress:) and whatever is MOTG?  I am very new at this and don't know all the abbreviations .  I DO hope my feelings change, I know they will, i'm the most forgiving person they'll ever know, and I am hoping they do mature, but until then they don't take their children down that road with them (unfortunately they (gd/gs)  have no choice), that's what kills me most.  His GF basically raised herself and her 5 siblings, and there is nothing but negativism & drama surrounding that family... but that's their problem, DS has to determine if his life is worth living that way, which, because of the way we raised him, he will stay b/c of the kids.  She got a heck of a deal when she got involved with our son.  I am a woman of prayer, and I DO pray constantly for them, for me and attitudes that creep in :)  (please let me know what MOTG is, i'm curious... BLESSINGS to you and yours... Kf
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hey, Grammyto2, your thoughts are your thoughts. No judgment here - just don't tell your DS and his GF what you're thinking. You will have to work on it though, since most wedding ceremonies implore the witnesses to suppport the marriage and not undermine it. Practice your best MOTG smile :)  You never know, your feelings may change and your DS & his GF may mature with marriage. If not, at least you will have taken the high road. Best wishes!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on October 02, 2010, 03:19:20 PM
Is it Mother Of The Groom? Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: stilltryen on November 13, 2010, 08:03:24 PM
Quote from: miss_priss on September 20, 2010, 01:02:39 PM
KeysGirl - it sounds like your mind is made up and there's no bending for you.  I understand that your health is a concern, but I must kindly agree that being told a year out from my wedding date that MIL wouldn't "be able" to attend (other than only for the vows)....well, I really would take that personally as well. 

I have to ask you this, because your stubborness sounds so familiar...

Does your hatred for your FDIL out-weigh your love for your son?  I'm sorry that is so blunt, but really?  Why wouldn't you be there to celebrate the happiest day of his life?  Sure, you have your apprehensions, you have your reasons for disliking her, and you've made it clear that it won't be the happiest day of YOUR life...but completely discarding their wedding celebration.....a YEAR out?  It sounds like both of them want you to be there, and have voiced that to you.  I think its very unreasonable of you, sick or not, to "bow out" of celebrating their special day...especially this far in advance.  Is it because you can't celebrate?  Are you afraid of seeing others who are genuinely happy for them?  I can't imagine how hurt your son must be, I know I would be devastated.  How could someone NOT take that personally?

I am very sorry that this comes accross so harsh.  I agree that your situation with your son and FDIL is pretty messed up, but it sounds like YOU are closing the door on them and hiding behind the excuse of your poor health.  I agree that we all need some space from time to time, and for your healths's sake, PLEASE do take some time and space away from them!  I'm just saying maybe you should re-think your reaction to their invitation, that's all.         

Your post makes sense --- except that you must have missed the part where Keys tells them she probably won't be there because of her health and while FDIL sends her an email --- NEITHER THE FDIL, nor especially HER SON pick up the phone and say, "Wow, mom, how are you?  What can we do?" and so on and so forth.  As Keys said, "No flowers, nothing."  Don't you think that if her son really cared about her and wanted her there on the "happiest day" of his life, that he would at least check in with her, go visit her, etc., etc.?  I know mine would, despite my less than caring DIL.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: JaneF on November 13, 2010, 09:06:59 PM
I too enjoyed your post tremendously! I think you are very witty and have a great attitude. I agree that your FDIL seems to want to be the one in charge, and maybe even wants a squabble...ridiculous. Funny the comment that said something about deflating the person who is snubbing you if you don't act like you know you are being snubbed. lol That is the approach I have been using for a few months now. The snotty little digs and jabs made by my own DS on MY Facebook page, so he KNOWS I see them, go totally without a response. Drives them NUTS! My DD has not learned the art of ignoring those that are just spoiling for a fight, so she responded to them with a scalding message on Facebook. This of course was the beginning od WW3, which was what DS and DIL wanted all along. My DIL was miffed because my DD called her mother a tramp, so to speak...so she responded by calling me a tramp! Didn't bother me in the least of course, and I still have never uttered a response to any of it. They were so mad they deleted me from friends list as if that going to upset me. I LOVE your style, and it is wonderful that you plan to go about your life cheerfully like you haven't a care in the world! I applaud you, and give you a "High Five!" It's hard to have a fight with someone who refuses to fight back and ignores you instead. Keep us posted on the results please!!!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: tryingmybest on November 14, 2010, 05:09:19 AM
 ;) Wow! First of all I think we may have sisters for DIL's! The constant harrasing telephone calls to your son when he was with you sounded so familiar. with mine it was text messages. They were constant.  It broke my heart to see my son tense up everytime one came over. One thing I am doing, is not getting mad, limiting my contact but every chance I get I am building HIM up. Using any opportunity to bolster his self esteem. I think these kind of women need total control and to have that they need to cut off any other avenue of emotional support. They are emotionally abusive borderline whack jobs. My advice is continue to be his soft place to fall, expect nothing, live a full life and smile, smile, smile - it'll drive her nuts!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on November 14, 2010, 08:52:27 AM
We go through this too. You've really hit on something - our sons do need to feel strong and capable. I will definitely pay attention and build my DS up on those rare occasions when we actually get to see him. Nothing makes me twinge like hearing his wife put him down or nag him in front of us or via text messages. Tacky.

Self-esteem building can be done in a subtle way so that it doesn't diminish DIL or cause a weird dynamic between DIL, DS & MIL. I'm smiling as I type. My face may "freeze that way."
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: seasage on November 14, 2010, 09:09:49 AM
Oh, oh, oh, yes, you have it.  A mother's job is to continue the building of her DS's confidence.  I think of the lines from Kahlil Gibran, at the end of the poem "Your children are not your children". 

          Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
          For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
          so He loves also the bow that is stable.

We are still the bow.  We must provide the stability so that the arrows (our sons) may fly straight.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on November 22, 2010, 07:11:50 AM
Yes, seasage, we are the bow, but can only be stable for someone else when we take care of ourselves first.

I'm doing fine, putting myself, my heath and my priorities first.  I don't spend much time thinking about my son and future DIL, there hasn't been any contact for about a month and I'm fine with that, the peace and quiet is like a warm blanket around me and I've gone on with my life and my own plans.  A friend of mine suggested that I spend my time thinking that I was surrounded by a hula hoop and not let anyone or anything "inside" the hula hoop to protect myself.   

I constantly hum the words to the Ricky Nelson song "Garden Party"........."If you can't please everyone, then you got to please yourself". 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Marilyn on November 22, 2010, 08:59:05 AM
I'm so proud of you Keys Girl!!!

You are doing the right thing............and if your son was really concerned he would call,it would show in his ACTIONS.

Your FDIL sounds alot like mine.It has effected my health also,so  "take care of me is a priority".

I love your strength and attitude,it helps me to stay strong.Every relationship REQUIRES compromise and consideration period!!!You are compromising by attending the vows and still being considerate by doing that.I dont see your son being very considerate about your health.You have figured out the head games,which is abuse,and a very poor form of communication...............good for you!!!
I just ordered the book..............saying good bye to your Borderline personality disordered.............from what i read on line,it's the only way to survive.It explains how you get sucked in,and cant get out.


I have gone from "A Victim of my experiences"..........."to Victorious in my learning"............The help from  WWU,the wise wonderful women,self help books,and my Faith in God.

I love all my family here,sending Love and Blessings to all
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on November 22, 2010, 10:14:59 AM
I have gone from "A Victim of my experiences"..........."to Victorious in my learning". Glorious!! Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on November 22, 2010, 10:52:54 AM
I should embroider that on a pillow. Keys Girl, I'm glad you are doing well. None of this stress or emotional rollercoastering (a word?) is worth risking our health and well-being. You all are great role models, so thank you. I'm learning to stand up for myself and my needs; it's really difficult to put down the martyr mantle and speak up but the more I do it the easier it becomes.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: GreatWhiteNorth on November 26, 2010, 03:24:33 AM
I am currently catching up on some posts and this one really stands out to me.

I have a very dysfunctional person that occupies the role of my MIL, being a MIL did not create the dysfunction, she was dysfunctional way before she occupied the role of MIL.

I have tried to be understanding about what created the dysfunction in her, she was a child when the war was on, I figured that must have been it, but I will never truly know what happened, it was way before my time, way before even my parents were born so I can't go back and see what her childhood was like. It is more me giving her the benefit of the doubt, giving her some compassion for how this could have happened. How is a person like her created?

I have often wondered if MIL did not have a dysfunctional childhood at all, if MIL is actually the equivalent to what your DIL is, the equivalent of a spoiled brat. There is a girl in my daughters grade 1 class that is spoiled and I can't help but notice how her behavior looks an awful lot like MILs.

I always assumed that it was misfortune that lead MIL to be who she is, but MIL is not an unfortunate woman, she is actually a very priveliged woman, she has a life that most of us could only dream of. FIL made her a very very wealth woman, she has never had to work a day in her life and spends her days on numerous vacations during the year and going from her one home to the other (since she has so many), walking on the beach, emailing what way the wind is blowing that day (this is extent of her day) and knitting and reading. I don't admire how she has chosen to spend her privileged life, I think her day is dreadfully boring but my point is that she is far from a woman that lacking in any resources for a good life, yet look at her behavior. She has had this privileged life for over 50 years. So it is not hardships that created her, unless they happened in her childhood.

I wonder if she is actually a spoiled brat because what you write about in your DIL, my MIL is similar in her behavior.

MIL spends her day scribing piles and piles of notes on how much she hates so and so (usually FIL) and she also leaves scribed notes around about who gets to inherit what of her money.

MIL instead of being thankful to God for the fortune she has instead chooses to use that fortune as a weapon against her family, to control, to use as a dangling carrot and she uses it to create a master/slave relationship between her and others, especially her sons.

The one scribed note that she left was about (as always) who gets what portion of her money when she dies (she leaves these around in clear sight, to threaten people on what will happen if they don't serve her). In the one pile she wrote about leaving the money to the grandchildren.

I don't want my children ruined due to money, I still want them to be hard working and compassionate, not what MIL is. I feel that MIL circumvents the parents when she does that yet it is presented as if she is just so generous, in reality she is only trying to control them with her grand "weapon" as well.

Everyday I thank God for my children, I am so fortunate they are so beatiful. I also thank him for the house I live in, it is nothing grand but I have a few trees in the back yard, and a walking trail close by and if I look into the distance I can see the horses of the farmer across the road. I am so thankful for all this. MIL has 20 times more then what I have and yet she is not thankful at all, she is instead "entitled", the one home she goes to often has a whole beautiful beach in the backyard, one of the most beautiful in Canada.

Yet MIL chooses to come to the home that is 10 minutes away from us, it is the most dingy one, it is industrial looking and really out of date. Why? because in doing so she creates negative energy from how much trouble her presence causes and she relishes in that. MIL has admitted that she notices this trend, but not in an i'm sorry sort of way or in a how can we improve this sort of way but more in a way of her wanting feedback on just how much trouble IS she causing?

That would be the equivalent of me having this house we have now and our old one at the same time (the old one being a very small dark home- our starter home) and choosing to be cramped and in the smaller home with our three children where the not so great schools are for my daughter all because being there upsets the neighbour and man do I love that, makes me feel so powerful. (this is not how I feel at all, but how MIL thinks- I am relating it to my life and seeing how backwards it all is)

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on November 26, 2010, 07:18:03 AM
Again, self preservation would have me choosing a place to live that was a lot more than 10 minutes away from one of MIL's domiciles.  It's too handy and you know the "nature of the beast." What you cherish and what she values are not a match. In your map of reality, she's nuts...and you're probably right. Why look for logic there? She sounds disabled in many ways from the way you describe her. It seems like an exercise in futility to judge her. Protect yourself. You can get stuck in being right...and not be putting enough of your energy into being happy. What can you do? Move? What kind of action can you take? Set and maintain boundaries? How can you turn this around? Not her, the situation. Again and always, IMHO, getting agreement and sympathy from others doesn't change anything. Brainstorming and initiating a change in direction is indicated.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on November 26, 2010, 04:14:51 PM
Dear Great White North,

The "be nice to me otherwise I won't leave you money"is an old and nasty manipulative trick, and if she brings it up again I would print up an article about how many people are leaving their funds to charity after they pass away, and mention that inheriting lots of money only attracts thieves who read the obituaries.

The tone of your letter seems to me to be one of someone who has some solid values and wants to pass them on to your children.

I once had to work with a woman who was the only daughter of affluent parents who pampered her and catered to her every whim.  "Whatever Margie wanted, Margie got".  She grew up to be a manipulative witch with the determined will (think Hitler in a dress) to make the rest of the world revolve around her as it had when she was younger and I'm still surprised that I was able to deal with her for almost a dozen years without having a cardiac arrest.  She also developed a huge spending addiction, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars of her husband's salary (and by extension, his family's money).  She perceived herself as The Queen and expected/demanded that everyone treat her that way.  I have yet to meet anyone as demanding and insistent on getting her way (and she didn't care what anyone else had to do to make it happen), she was a huge energy vulture and I'm so happy that I haven't spoken to her in years.  Sounds like your MIL was sprung from the same mold.

It doesn't really matter why these people are the way they are.......they are who they are and don't have any motivation in changing.  They are motivated to make everyone's life miserable and derive a sadistic pleasure in doing so.  They don't seem to "get" that you can get lots of attention by doing good things for the world, but that's their problem.  Their days are spent trying to get more power and they have to have it. 

I would want at least 500 miles in between one of these energy vultures if I were in your shoes, so good luck, Canada is a beautiful country and there are lots of great places to move to (or find a luxurious nursing home/hotel) for her!



On another point, to anyone who has followed this thread, I recently was surprised to find myself at the receiving end of some pro-active action by my son to keep in touch with me.  We had a cordial conversation for about 30 minutes and he was polite and considerate.  You could have knocked me over with a feather, but I will still be keeping my expectations going forward at "0" just in case this isn't a trend.

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on November 26, 2010, 05:28:38 PM
I am going to keep that description in mind..."energy vultures." Yes. The I, Me, My Syndrome.

And that's a great win...KG!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: GreatWhiteNorth on November 27, 2010, 03:50:28 AM
Thanks Luise for your wise words, they help immensely. For me what helps is just good wisdom and you are full of good wisdom. Keys Girl, you are also full of good wisdom as well.

Believe it or not, MIL follows us when we move. Last year MIL claimed she was maltreated by FIL and called BIL and made it his problem that she is tired living at all her other homes and wanted a new place to live amongst them. That is another activity she spends her life doing besides scribing hate notes, going between places, it is like she is a dog peeing on a bunch of places to mark them as hers. She manipulated BIL into moving her to a townhome all at his expense that was 5 minutes away from where we lived at the time.

MIL was caught after moving out on FIL simply between their place and the one that was 5 minutes from us as happy as a lark due to the attention she gained, then MIL changed her story. She was hiding out because she is so afraid of ME (thus she had to move 5 minutes away from me- makes no sense).

MILs motto should be "where ever you go...I will follow"

Your wise words remind me of a plaque that I bought for my office (we did actually move - we are so close to the country that she would be hard pressed to find somewhere close. lol) This plaque says "The best way to predict the future is to create it". This plaque is in one of my many boxes that are still unpacked, but I will be proudly displaying it in my office :)

When I write about MIL, I am talking about the last 7 years of experiences with her, this distance from her in our new place really is nice. MIL has never stepped foot in this house.

Keys Girl- That sounds exactly like her, wow! I also like the title of energy vultures. And great news about your son. I would never want my children turning out like that, the money in those cases came at too high a cost in my humble opinion. My MIL is a like a pushy little bull dog with the one of the strongest wills I have ever seen. MIL even wrote in emails once about how she is sticking by behaving how she does and she does not care who she hurts and who does not like it. MIL asked what she can do to be better once, then when we told her that she needs to respect boundaries she claimed ineptitude (could not figure for the life of her how she was doing this and then went to war) It is like she literally fights to be who she is.

This is what I love about this board, I truly think the people here have moved past the two camps of MIL vs. DIL and simply work to solve issues of dysfunctional people. I can certainly see your DIL Keys girl in my MIL.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Tara on November 27, 2010, 07:32:31 AM
GWN

Glad that you have a place where you can be at peace now.  Best Wishes
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Faithlooksup on November 27, 2010, 08:16:03 AM
Dear Friend...You have done all that you can and have gone above and beyond the call of duty as well.  Back off and just live your life as you have been doing...Do Not bow to her--she sould begin to bow to you...However she does not know any better.   I feel bad for your Son, for what he is going thru and torn between two women he loves.  BUT, do understand Mom and I do say this in a respectful manner--your Son is not thinking clearly thru the Head on his shoulders!!!   He will wake up someday, just always leave an open door for him which I know you will.  Keep up the good job--you are on top of your life, remain their...Let Go and Let God...
Blessings and Hugs,
A Friend
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on November 29, 2010, 06:13:48 PM
Just when you think that things are moving in the right direction............I just received a long and very formal letter from my son, which ends in "Goodbye".  It's a litany of issues where he blames me for all kinds of things and basically gives me a hard time for taking care of my health in my own way as well as offending his future bride.

I wasn't expecting this, but if he's resentful because I'm taking care of my health in a ways that he doesn't approve of or he feels is not attentive to his needs then I'm going to keep on keeping on and keep on doing whatever it takes to take care of myself.  I'm sensing that he's pushing the biggest guilt button he thinks that he can find, but I disabled it a while back.  It's great to keep your expectations at "0" and then if a letter like this comes along......well.....it's just another bump in the road or maybe it's the end of my relationship with him/them.  It's not the end of my relationship with the planet and I'm still on it and doing well and determined to keep it that way, no matter who throws the whole guilt trip my way.

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on November 29, 2010, 06:18:39 PM
Oh, KG, I'm so sorry. No matter how we try...we had other pictures. Yes, take care of yourself. I'm so glad you see that for the guilt trip that it undoubtedly is. Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: tryingmybest on November 30, 2010, 06:12:13 AM
I am so sorry. Your son is clearly entering into a marriage with a controlling emotionally abusive woman, and it's devastating to know you have no control over his decisions, but by the same token you have no obligation to get sucked down the rabbit hole with him. I think you are doing the only thing you can do. For YOUR future peace of mind I would suggest an "I love you and the door is always open for you, along with some hard truth telling - You are marrying an emotionally abusive person and I fear for your future but I will always be here for you when you need me." Just make it clear that open door does not include his future wife. :P
Sending you a hug, I've printed out your posts -you are an inspiration!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on February 07, 2011, 09:48:52 AM
Just a quick update - it's been just over two months since I received an email from my son saying he (and her) no longer wanted to keep in touch with me.

The month of December was difficult, my blood pressure spiked the highest on Dec. 24th, but now, I've concentrated on doing the things that I need to do to take care of myself and my blood pressure has dropped quite substantially, I sleep sweet dreams and have started to really enjoy my life again (like I used to).

There are times when people ask me if I have children that I'm stumped for words.  I did tell a young woman recently and she said "Oh, that's awful, it sounds like something out of a movie" and it put a damper on our conversation.  I've decided to use the phrase "He's doing his own thing" as opposed to anything hostile or long explanations.

Despite the fact that he's been such a huge part of my life for the last 30 years, I've decided to treat this whole situation in the same manner as the airplane instructions.  "Put the oxygen mask over yourself first and then help your child".

My son is 30, approaching 31 and while things haven't worked out as I expected or hoped, I'm not prepared to be part of the life that he has chosen to lead.  He doesn't want me there unless I put up with "She who must be obeyed" and I don't want to be there either.

It's sad, but I learned a few things in my life the hard way and perhaps he will have to as well, but those are his choices and not mine.

My point is that despite the fact that I'm not part of my son's life, I'm happy again.  I'm happy with the choices that I've made and continue to make to bring joy and happiness to my life and pass on a bit of it to anyone else and if most of those people are friends or even strangers, I'm fine with that.

No one is gonna write on my gravestone "Oh, she suffered so much for her adult son and had an early heart attack........nope.......she sure loved to dance and make people laugh" is what I'm working toward.

Many thanks to Luise and many of the women here, if I'm not posting much, it's because I'm out there putting my dancing shoes on!  I don't worry about the whole upcoming wedding hoopla, I don't have any plans to attend a wedding when the bride and groom don't want to speak to me.  It's not my wedding so it's not my problem.

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 07, 2011, 10:05:04 AM
Good for you, Keys!  If only we could all share your positive attitude!!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on February 07, 2011, 10:11:19 AM
Wonderful! You lead, we'll follow! You matter! I matter! We all matter! Yes!  ;D
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 07, 2011, 10:30:16 AM
You're so sweet all the time, Luise!  I want your happy pills!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on February 07, 2011, 12:50:53 PM
These are Happy Pills!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Tara on February 07, 2011, 04:09:15 PM
Keys Girl,

This is excellent news. 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Hope on February 07, 2011, 07:31:23 PM
Keys Girl,
I love your positive attitude!  It gives me strength just reading your post.
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Nana on February 08, 2011, 10:44:26 PM
Key Girl

That is the way to go.  You deserve to be happy.  We also have a life to live....with our without our children....we to were someone's children...  Iwish we could all achieve your attitude....it is hard....though not imposible.  Congrats.

Love
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cremebrulee on February 09, 2011, 05:59:40 AM
Keys Girl....
YOU ROCK!  And know we're behind you....you've got the right attitude all the way....just drop back and punt.....

big hugs
Creme
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on February 09, 2011, 08:30:09 AM
Good to hear from you, KG. Thanks for the update and thanks for sharing your positive attitude. You are an inspiration!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Tara on February 09, 2011, 10:25:14 AM
Yes,  I concur with Pen, you are an inspiration KG
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on April 20, 2011, 10:58:56 AM
Here's another update to my WWU friends. 

I'm moving out of one phase of grief where immense sadness prevails and I've thought about all the things I might have done wrong, but also remembered the good times and things that I did well when I brought my son up by myself.  There is a tremendous sense of failure, in that he and his bride-to-be don't want to keep in touch with me.  I don't miss her for a minute but she does bully my son.

Just in the last few days I've realized that I did my best and I repeat that mantra over and over again.  It's difficult to take criticism and banishment from people who have no child rearing experience, little life experience living away from their parents and holding down a job.   I remember the first week that I brought my son home from the hospital, I then realized how much work my mother put into my care.

I read something recently about reaching the phase of your life when your regrets outweigh your dreams.   I'm not willing to accept that.  I'm putting all my regrets into a little box, and I'm going to find a patch of ground somewhere and give the burial it deserves.  No headstone will mark this place, those emotions need to be locked away underground not to be wasting my days.

I'm going forward with more optimism and no hostility for my son and his future bride aka. the cupcake.

That doesn't mean that I'm prepared to trust them as far as I can throw them, would ever welcome them back with open arms, it just means that I need to go on and the burden of any hostility isn't going to help me.

I don't expect to be invited to the wedding in Sept., given that they have given me the "cold shoulder" for much of the last year, there are good people that I can spend time with.  I've been holding on to some items for about 35 years that were given to my son's grandparents (on his father's side) at their wedding and will send them on to her parents house, as I don't have their address (they refuse to give it to me).

I don't expect that the mourning process is completely over, but I am happy to say that I have reached a point where I have don't have any more time for punishing myself for not being the "perfect" parent. 

If perfection was an option when raising children, they would at least send you home with an instruction booklet from the hospital.  They do that when you buy a toaster for crying out loud!

I may not have been the perfect parent, but I was the very best one that I could have been, and given that I was a single parent from the time he was very young, I struggled against many obstacles to even be the good parent I was.

I remember how absolutely panic stricken I was when I first started this thread last year, but now, I'm calm and prepared to move forward with my own life and include whoever I want in it, and exclude whoever I wish.

You can't pick your family but you can pick your friends, and so many of mine have been lost in the last couple of decades, mostly to cancer.  I'm still here, my cancer tests just came back negative, so I need to make the best of whatever time I have on the planet for myself and the people who I choose to have in my life.

I've decided that letting sadness rule my world (from time to time) is no longer an option.  It's my little world and I call the shots.  So, the operative emotion is optimism and gratitude that my cancer tests aren't putting me on a chemo ward.

Mother's Day is coming up and I'll be burying that little box of regrets somewhere and dropping a pot of daffodils on top of it.

Thank you to Luise and the many women who posted on my thread, I'm not near a computer very much anymore but will continue to post from time to time.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Rose799 on April 20, 2011, 11:17:37 AM
I haven't totally been CO from dd, but I can relate, KeysGirl.  All I can say is, "You go girl!" and I hope to meet up with you soon.  I, too, am working on making peace with my situation.  It's a big leap, huh?  I feel honored to know you, KG.  Wishing you much, much happiness,

Rose
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Hope on April 20, 2011, 03:12:59 PM
KG,
Reading your post really hit home to me.  I was able to guard myself pretty much from the pain of rejection, but two weeks ago Dil did something that was just the little nudge I needed to have a major melt down.  I'm recovering and I love reading your spunky posts - they give me strength.  I feel like your ds and my ds are in the same type relationship.  Hey - we are only human and our dc are so dear to us, we are bound to have set backs occasionally no matter how strong we are when they aren't interested in having us in their life.  I believe you are a fabulous mom and you don't need to convince me that you did the best you could raising your son as a single mom - which was quite a feat!  This is all about your ds/fdil and is no reflection of your love for him or the good years you had together when you were raising him.
Keep up your spirits!
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: cadagi101 on April 21, 2011, 03:33:07 PM
that was  lovely post KG. 
you deserve every happiness, just a few words you write mean so much...all the best and I look forward to hearing from you again
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: jill on April 21, 2011, 06:05:18 PM
Keys Girl,
Your post is an inspiration, I am working on trying to get to the point where you are.  It is an uphill journey.........Jill
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Sheen on April 21, 2011, 08:00:55 PM
KG, I think your present state of mind is extremely healthy and positive and believe me I know how long it takes to get to that frame of mind. Once we analyse the situation to death, make peace with ourselves on what we did wrong, and what we did right, and draw the boundaries of what we are willing to accept, I think there comes a calm peace with all this.
Is the relationship I have with my son the way I wish, of course not, did I make mistakes of course I did, but as an adult it is time he also acknowledges his responsibility in all this rather then blame it entirely on me.
You can't force a relationship even if you gave  birth to the person if they are against it so the way I see it you have two choices.  One you can live the rest of your days filled with the regrets, depressions etc or you can put them in that box as kg says and live your days celebrating your life and the good things in it.
I like KG choose the latter, and I think I will take that box and bury it in the  Colosseum , when we go in two weeks lol.The days of battles between my son is ancient history , might as well throw it the right spot  ;D
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Tara on April 21, 2011, 08:35:41 PM
KG,

I'm happy to get an update on how you are doing and that your medical tests came back came back clear.  Having a
a vision for your life that doesn't involve being burdened with regrets sounds so healthy.  Hopefully I'll get there soon myself.  I'm glad you are keeping in touch -  its always good to hear from you.  I think I might create  ritual as well for Mothers Day too 

Sheen, I was touched by what you have written about the stages of grief and inner reconciliation and expecting our sons to take
some responsibility as adults. 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Kennedy on April 21, 2011, 09:09:58 PM
KG, Like the others I thought your update was wonderful! It's wonderful your tests all came back good! I hope your days are sunny and full of laughter! God Bless you and yours!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 09:46:09 AM
I love that idea.  So now, I shall come up with my own little box, and bury it somewhere special.  Thanks KG!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: lancaster lady on April 25, 2011, 11:14:55 AM
Keys :
You are an inspiration for all women on this forum .I salute you !
I hope you day of happiness will come .
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on May 08, 2011, 11:14:13 PM
Here we go again.

I sent my son an electronic birthday card recently and yesterday (Mother's Day) he sent me a form letter reply that said "Thank You" and Happy Mother's Day.  I was fine to let it go at that.   He then sent me another note saying that if I wanted to talk, I was free to call him and as well drive in (some distance) to see the new house they had purchased.  No mention was made of the extraordinary hostile and threatening emails he and his fiancee had sent me before Christmas, some of which sent my blood pressure up to dangerous levels.  No mention was made of an apology to offset his last hateful email which ended with goodbye........just another "you could, you could" set of circumstances.  I wasn't impressed to say the least.

After many months when my heart was broken (almost literally) at being the target of some horrifically humiliating action on their part, I'm in no hurry to call or being in touch or drive a gazillion mlles so they can show off a new house.  What's in it for me?

I've come to the conclusion that sad as it is my life is more peaceful and serene without the boomerang of hateful and self absorbed litany of complaints and demands for money etc.  Since their wedding is later this year, it's hard for me to understand how they could have bought a new house when my future DIL was demanding that I pony up some thousands and thousands of $$ for the extravaganza wedding.

As for the old platitude of "you have to meet someone half way, you are responsible for the relationship you created" that are often trotted out, I've decided that if my son doesn't have the cojones to stand up like a man and acknowledge the hurtful and hateful emails with an apology that he sent to me in the las 9 months, I'm not ready to get in line for a few more.

I'm not going to contact him.  I don't want to talk.  Talk is cheap.  Actions speak louder than works, and frankly if the best he can do is write a few words on mother's day in reply to an email that I sent him to wish him a Happy Birthday recently, well, I'm not impressed and not interested in keeping in touch so I can have another dose of "It's all your fault" and "You are ruining the most important day of my life because you choose to follow instructions from your doctor to try to prevent a heart attack or stroke or aneurism".  I'm out of patience for them, but have decided to keep all of my patience for myself and take care of my health first. 

If they don't like that, well, they can pick up the phone and treat me with some courtesy and respect like all of the other people in my life.

I'm tired of mourning the loss of a relationship with my son that had been one of the most important in my life.

If he wants a relationship with me, he can step up to the plate, put his big boy panties on and treat me with the courtesy and respect that I deserve.  If he doesn't, well, I'm just fine with that and will drive on with my life and the good people who are in it.

Rewarding bad behaviour is always a mistake and I'm not going to reward his horrible behavior by saying "Oh, sure the door is always open, let's just forget about how you gave me the toss before Christmas and never had a work for me over the holidays.

As I get older, I shut down relationships where people are not treating me with basic courtesy and some manners.  Life is too short to spend it squabbling with spoiled brats who demand that you fund their extravagant lifestyle while you count your pennies.

My telephone accepts incoming calls as well as outgoing calls and at this point in time, I'm not really interested in making calls to him or receiving any (not like that is likely to happend).

I'm interested in maintaining the peace of mind that I have finally attained in recent weeks after agonizing over my son shutting the door on me.  This kind of back and forth agonizing has taken place over 2 years now and that's not good for my heart. 

I'm doing what's good for me from now on.......no excuses, no exceptions.  If my son wants to keep in touch with he can find the manners and values that I taught him, dust them off and contact me with at least a decent apology and frankly enough flowers to fill a high school basketball court.

Might take him a while to figure it out or maybe he's just too stubborn to admit that some of the stuff he sent me was totally hateful and without a morse of genuine concern for me.  Whatever.  I'm busy, yesterday was Mother's Day and I treated myself to some new towels found at a store that was just about giving them away.  I figure if he can't send a card, or flowers, or anything, I'm going to buy my own Mother's Day gifts, a tradition I expect to continue in the future.

And as for the whole "you are responsible for the relationship you have" platitude........yup, I'm waiting for him to stand up and act like the man I taught him to be, and show some respect and consideration for me.  If not, we'll, I don't want a relationship with someone who is going to feel me a steady diet of hostility, humiliation and expect me to always be the run to run the extra mile to keep in touch.  I'm getting older and I don't run after anyone anymore.  If someone wants to spend time with me they can meet the minimum standards of courtesy that I have for the people in my life, if not then it's ........"Next".  And that applies to my son, who should have more respect for me than just about everyone else on the planet.

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: lancaster lady on May 09, 2011, 12:16:50 AM
 :)Woohoo Go Keys Girl ...!.! ............You really nailed it honey ....!   So proud that you are so together and strong ! It takes a.while for momma cat to lick her wounds but watch out when she's better ......I'm with you 100% ......I hope he realises all his mistakes and what  a great asset he will lose in you !  Enjoy your fluffy towels .....if I had your address I would send you a bath bomb to go with them ! ;)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Nana on May 09, 2011, 01:30:39 AM
Keys Girl... You now do have the Keys.   You can go anywhere you want with your new attitude.   Move forward...if you son wants to talk to you he will come to you.  I hope he has mature by now and know what you he is losing.    See, you got a good Mother's Days....enjoy your towels.  I also buy something nice for myself on Mother's Day, My Birthday, When I am Happy, or sad  lol.  Lets pamper ourselves....we deserve it. 

Love
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: themuffin on May 09, 2011, 06:00:42 AM
KeysGirl is my new role model!!!!  Oh my, but our FDIL's and DS are so similar.  And so are our attitudes.  I feel exactly the same!  My DS brings nothing to the table in terms of happiness.  His last words to me were "I'm DONE!!!" via a voicemail.  He got VM because I had already placed him and FDIL on my reject list.  I refuse to allow them to affect my day.  The last time I made the mistake by answering the phone for them they had my heart racing and my pressure rising.  I was literally walking down the street talking to myself.  Nope.  NO MORE.  "I"m DONE" he said and I said "GOOD"!!!  That means he's "Done" robbing me, disrespecting me, using me, slandering me, taking me granted, and stressing me out!!!  If you take away all of that there really wasn't anything more to our relationship anyway.  Too bad he couldn't have been "Done" a year ago before I was robbed of some jewels with sentimental value.

He acts like not having him in my life is such a loss.  I see it as a gain.  I now have peace of mind.  Yesterday was Mother's Day and I am blessed to have two other children so I did still have a mother's day without DD.  I wondered it DD realized he doesn't have another mother. 

KeyGirl, you have taken the path that I intend to take.  I don't want DD to contact me unless he can apologize and recognize how wrong he was.  I don't just want him coming back when he needs something.  In my last email to him I told him the door was always open.  I meant that.  He can always come back in an apologize, but that open door will allow him to leave again too.  He will NEVER live in my home again. 

I know many of us were people with lives before we had our DC.  But that doesn't really ring true for me.  I had DS so young in my life that I never really had a life of my own.  My children were my entire life.  And I truly loved it and had no regrets. But it's my time now. My message is DS and even the other two is this:

LOVE ME OR REJECT ME, BUT DON'T DISRESPECT ME!  And with those words my life goes on!

Happy Belated Mother's Day to all of you wonderful mothers. Our grown children don't define us, they define themselves.  We know who we are.

HUGS
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pooh on May 09, 2011, 07:55:20 AM
Amen!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on May 09, 2011, 08:59:53 AM
Wow, KeysGirl, just wow. I suppose DS had to send something so he could pat himself on the back for being an attentive son. To stop him from being a martyr you could send a generic thank you, but no thank you on the visit.

It feels good when you stop beating your head against the wall, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on May 09, 2011, 04:09:15 PM
Quote from: themuffin on May 09, 2011, 06:00:42 AM
Our grown children don't define us, they define themselves.  We know who we are.

HUGS

Exactly.........I'm not too impressed with how they define themselves, but they have their own lives to live and define them as they wish as I have my own life to live in peace and harmony with people who appreciate me and are happy to see me.

Pen, it feels great not to have any expectations of him.  My Mother's Day wasn't a day spent lamenting the fact that he wasn't doing anything for me, it was just another good day, and yes, he didn't put much effort into it, would he have sent me an email had I not sent him one for his birthday? not likely, but that's his choice. 

I'll be spending each and every Mother's Day going forward exactly and precisely as I please whether or not my son makes an effort to spend time with me.

Be good or be gone........that's my motto.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Kara487 on May 10, 2011, 12:44:36 PM
I agree with luise somewhat. they are who they are and you need to take a step back and stop trying to gain control over them.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: themuffin on May 10, 2011, 12:53:56 PM
Hi Kara,

Just curious...Who's the comment for? 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Kara487 on May 10, 2011, 12:57:55 PM
Keys
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on May 10, 2011, 01:14:23 PM
What I meant, if I failed to say it...is we can't change them. I hope none of us want to control them. (Whoever "they" are at any given moment. Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on May 10, 2011, 02:18:42 PM
Quote from: Kara487 on May 10, 2011, 12:44:36 PM
I agree with luise somewhat. they are who they are and you need to take a step back and stop trying to gain control over them.

I have to say I find your comment well.... a bit of a joke.  I am not trying not have I ever tried to gain control over them, or anyone else on the planet. I'm am however going to prevent them from trying to control and add some of their drama and hostility to my life by using techniques such as emotional blackmail, threats and tactics best suited to well versed con artists.

Kara, have you read all the posts and the whole thread? I would  prefer that they treat me with courtesy and a minimal amount of respect, and I don't interpret that as "control".

My son's patronizing attitude and hostility isn't something that can be controlled by anyone but him.  While it saddens me beyond measure to be the scapegoat, his father started telling him when he was 4 years old and I left a miserably unhappy marriage that I had ruined his life because I had broken up the family and refused to reconcile with his father.  That's when his dad made him the scapegoat.  25 years later and a whole lot more negative reinforcement by his father and his cupcake bride to be and he's dumping on the one person in the world that he knows won't abandon him completely.

Since I haven't spoken to my son in almost 6 months, received a two line email on mother's day and a form letter thank you, I haven't seen him in more than a year, if I take a step any further back, I'll be living in a country where English is the third language, which, actually, crosses my mind every once in a while. :-)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: tryingmybest on May 10, 2011, 02:28:21 PM
I just love the way you think and write! I really hope you write more then just your posts here, because I think you might have one amazing book in you.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on May 11, 2011, 03:46:25 PM
Thanks, tryingmybest, I've been doing some writing, and it's very time consuming, but I really enjoy it.  Will let you know if a book ever makes it to the light of day.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Kara487 on May 12, 2011, 07:49:26 AM
Keys, not all of us can agree . so lets agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on May 12, 2011, 09:37:30 AM
Kara, I don't understand your train of thought.

What are we disagreeing about? Are you a DIL? a MIL? I see that you are a Newbie but I'm not sure how you fit into this community but certainly respect your right to disagree with anyone about anything just as long as you yourself aren't disagreeable.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: themuffin on May 12, 2011, 12:10:35 PM
Hi Kara,

    :) Please don't take offense, but I also don't understand your comments.  Your first comment on this thread you said was for Keys, but it didn't make any sense in response to what Keys had written.  It was almost as if you'd read someone Else's post and posted on the wrong thread.

    Again, please don't take offense but I'm willing to guess that you a a DIL. That's not a bad thing at all! ;D  I was so looking forward to having a daughter via my DIL.  Sadly, it didn't work out that way.  I'm a DIL and I think I'm a good one.  I have a MIL and I think she's a GREAT one!!  Sometimes relationships don't work out.  I hope that the situation that brings you here gets better.  I also hope that you don't think all MIL's are controlling because we certainly don't think that all DIL are evil.   ;D

Sending Hugs
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: lancaster lady on May 12, 2011, 12:42:52 PM
Kara:
Perhaps you could tell us what led you to this forum ?
I have read all your posts , and you haven't told us anything about yourself .
Want to share ?
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on August 12, 2011, 06:59:57 PM
Update and a chance to get my thoughts down on paper.

I'm further down that road towards the wedding of my son and his bride later this year.  I haven't been in contact with them for many months, and it's actually helped my blood pressure numbers a lot which have been lower than they have been in a long time.  I decided about a week ago that even if I received an invitation to the wedding that I wouldn't go.  Watching the stock market go up and down, I heard a newscaster say the old maxim "Never risk more than you can afford to lose" and I realized that I couldn't risk losing my health and perhaps even my life to a stroke, heart attack, aneurism or angina attack that my doctor alerted me could actually happen if I were to attend the wedding.

I don't feel a sense of vindication, it's not a type of revenge against my future DIL, it's not as if I had been dreaming of my son's wedding day when he was growing up, but the thought of an empty chair being where I might be sitting (were to be invited) is something that I'm having to deal with.  Even if I were to bring a paramedic to the ceremony, if I were to have some sort of a crisis, it would be too late to avoid it and it would make their wedding day into perhaps some kind of depressing or even tragic event.

I expect that there will be many people including my son and future DIL who will be angry and resentful when I don't attend the wedding (assuming it is still on) but I keep telling myself that I have the most to lose in these circumstances and my purpose in life is not to please others.  If I didn't have any serious health issues, I would slap a smile on my face, grit my teeth and go, but that's not the case.  They can have a "pity party" about the fact that a parent wasn't at the wedding, but that's just another party that I won't be at.

I did have some symptoms last weekend after I had made the decision, but I suppose the stressors were still around.  It convinced me even more that I was doing the right thing in keeping myself away from a day that could be one that I might not want to remember or that could even put me into a hospital bed.

Like all of these circumstances, it's not like picking out white bread versus rye.  There are a lot of emotions involved and circumstances that are complicated my time and history, but when I go back to basics, I'm not prepared to risk a life threatening, altering or even life ending set of circumstances that I do have the ability to avoid. 

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on August 12, 2011, 07:41:10 PM
'We are the only ones who can save ourselves." My hat is off to you that you know that, KG, and that you are following through. Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: sesamejane on August 12, 2011, 08:49:48 PM
Hi KeysGirl,

Someone recommended that i read your thread, but I couldn't find it until today.  Thank you for posting; I am happy to have found your story.  I have not seen my son and dil since 06 due to tragic circumstances that they created.  It was so upsetting that I could not contact them and have no desire to see them.  I have three grandchildren now, but when all this happened, I only had two - one I was getting to know and the other just a baby.  I love them enough to stay out of the picture because the destructive duo (dil and ds) used them as weapons not only with me but with dil's mother as well.   I don't want my gc to be pushed around or made to make Sophie's Choice kind of decisions.  When I had a relationship, if that's what you can call it, with my dil and son, prior to their marriage.  She asked me to arrange everything for her because she wanted to be married in the church where they met - I still lived in town but they had moved quite far away.    I paid for half the wedding and made the arrangements.  She complained about everything and humiliated me.  I felt like a complete fool. I could make some educated guesses as to why she felt the need to put me down, which she did at every opportunity, and why my son went a long with it, but it doesn't really matter.  The end of the story is that it never ended  - they continued to treat me terribly and finally they exploited my good nature and love for them  and their children by betraying me, shaming me.

I completely and totally support you - do not go to the wedding. I love that you are sending them the things that you believe belong with them.  It shows a lot of depth and wisdom on your part. Those things would always be a reminder if you kept them around.  I can imagine that these days are difficult for you with the pending wedding. I hope you plan something for that "special" day or weekend or whatever.  Be very very good to yourself.

Thank you for posting. I thought I might be the only one that had to let go of my son, who I loved more than I can say, and may still.  I came to a point at which I did not recognize him anymore.  I do not know the man in my son's skin.  I have grieved his vanishing and now when I hear echos of his life through others, it arouses the grief again - but I still will not go back to what was.  It was definitely not good for me, and I believe it is better for him for me to stay away. 

Please keep in touch as your journey is inspiring to me - Much love, your friend, sesamejane
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: forever spring on August 13, 2011, 07:22:33 AM
Hello all WW. Love this site, thanks to Luise for keeping it up. Gratulations to your weight loss!  :D

Keys Girl I took the time to read this thread from beginning to end. I do hope that your health will improve. Health is all we have. You cannot risk getting a stroke or be dependent on others for care. If your DS and FDIL really loved you they would see this, would be compassionate and the fact that you are not at their wedding would make them sad but they would blame the illness for it and react in a way that makes you feel loved and cared for. Yes I know this is best case scenario and not happening.

I wonder if it is our position as parents that makes our children behave so thoughtlessly, we are expected to love them unconditionally and we are responsible for giving them life, so we are not people in their own right with own needs and feelings we are just these beings that have to comply with the wishes of their offspring for ever and a day. Not sure but sometimes think it is so. The relationship between DILs and MILs is so different from any other relationship and DS change so much when they marry. Wish I had an answer then I could adjust behaviour or be more understanding or things could be better.

KG I like your writing style too and your sense of humour, keep it alive!#

I think big weddings are highly overrated anyway. I had a simple one and after 32 year still happily married!

I'm not in the same situation as you are KG but I have often found that our DS and DIL show little compassion for us. If DH or I did say no to a request it was always seen as a negative. We were always blamed for it.  We are now branded IL/GP from hell who never help even if we have just given them a princely sum to help with buying a new house. We are also now alienated from FOO, who have to help when we are unavailable. (We do have a nice social life with friends who keep us from being at family's beck and call all the time  >:() This is a shame because FOO are nice people. DS and DIL never showed any understanding for our situation. If we failed to comply with their wishes we were made to feel bad, real bad. DIL is now talking about damage repair. I don't think we have deserved it.

Up to the point when our sons got involved with GF we all thought that we'd done a good job with their upbringing - well, after they entered DS lives we learned that this was not so! Ouch!

Pooh: I loved your quote: When you dreams turn to dust, vacuum.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Hope on August 13, 2011, 07:02:31 PM
Hi everybody!  I've been away a long time, but wanted to stick my head in and say hello :P   
A lot has happened since my last post - we are going to be gp's again - but for our odd/sil's baby this time!   ;D
Our ds has changed into a person I don't recognize since he's been married - just like others here have mentioned.  I'm more convinced than ever that it's b/c his dw is making him miserable.  I found out that they are now in counseling, so maybe things will get better, but he told my dh that they are both miserable and he can't continue this way.  It may have been a help to him that we respect their space and don't initiate much contact with them, but have made the effort to let our ds know that we are family and will always be there for him.  We both told him at different times that his happiness is very important to us and we will rally around him if he wants us to (at that point he never said a word to us about his unhappiness - but you could really see his discontent).  I'm thinking it may have helped him have the courage to face the problems they are having in their marriage.  I'm feeling so 'hope'ful - more than ever before - b/c he said he won't live that way any more - so either things are going to change or he's out of there.  Either way, sounds like he's moving toward a happier life.  He's opening up to us about some eye opening history in our dil's life that explains why their relationship is so dysfunctional.  That dysfunction is effecting us, causing a hole in our family unit.   :'(   I am so excited about the possibility of my son getting his life back.  I feel like he's been bludgened for five years - beaten down - and I believe it's killed his soul.  I know it won't be easy - no matter what the outcome of this turn of events - but it will for sure be better than the life he's been living for the past (almost) 6 years.  I told him last week that we are in his corner and will give him support, whichever decision he makes.  Still don't see our gs much - haven't seen him for a month and that was with a large crowd.  I'm patiently waiting for ds to regain some life so things can return to some normalcy.  Wishing and hoping that things take a turn for all of you, too.
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on August 13, 2011, 07:40:06 PM
Well, Hi Hope! Beautiful to see you reporting in! And you are doing so well! Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on August 13, 2011, 07:43:30 PM
Hope, I've been thinking about you. Thanks for the update. I'm sorry your DS isn't happy, but glad to hear things may be turning around for him. You sound as if you are doing well. Good to hear from you!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Hope on August 13, 2011, 08:01:22 PM
Thanks, Luise and Pen.  Sorry I hi-jacked the thread again.  Oops.  And I tend to get windy - my apologies.  Things are looking up; at least ds is realizing he has options.
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on August 13, 2011, 08:24:46 PM
Hey, we don't care...we're so glad to see you!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Hope on August 13, 2011, 09:23:58 PM
Thanks, Luise.  You are all so sweet.  Congrats on your weight loss!
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on August 14, 2011, 05:24:25 AM
Luise, Sesamejane, Chelmsford36 and Hope,

Thanks for the feedback, I think I'm going through a type of mourning process.  Before my son asked his GF to marry him, he treated me so well that I was proud of him and the way I raised him.  Once the GF got involved in the mix, all hell broke loose.  I don't know if that person he used to be is still "under" the person he has now become or if he has morphed into the "good cop" of a "good cop/bad cop" couple, where he is united with her in an effort to humiliate me for their own satisfaction.

I'm not going to let that happen again.  That old saw that we have had drilled into us "Keep the lines of communication open" is a slippery slope.  I kept "the lines of humiliation" open for too long and now I'm paying the price.  I wish I had cut off contact with them when they first started their joint efforts to make me pay for my anger and indignation at being put on the spot for money that I didn't have when they should have been living within their means with nasty phone calls and emails.  Emotional and verbal abuse should always be cut off at the pass immediately, and that door is now shut forever, I regret that I didn't shut if off earlier.

I know that lately I sometimes go to sleep with the thought "I am so disappointed in him and how he turned out after all those years or hard work, sacrifice, devotion and trying to instil my values of honesty, integrity and kindness".  I know that grief is like a broken record playing in the background and that as time goes by the volume is lower and lower.  I expect that a year from now I won't be hearing the "music" hardly at all.

Went for a pedicure yesterday, a small treat for dealing with emotions that the "good cop and bad cop" are bringing to the surface.  Might spending my whole day on their wedding day in a spa.....pedicure, manicure, facial, massage.......make myself feel good and that shouldn't bring on a stroke.

Thanks again to the WW and to Luise for starting this site, it's been a lifeline for me and congrats to you on your weight loss, Luise, that's quite a feat.

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Hope on August 14, 2011, 07:36:08 AM
KG,
It's amazing how guys can be influenced by the wome+n in their lives!  We can sure have a lot of power.  I like your plans for the day of their wedding.  I worry about your health, but a spa day should be very relaxing and healing - especially on that day.  I'm sure you will have ups and downs with your struggles, like us all, but you sound like a strong person.  Hang in there and continue to take care of YOU!
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pooh on August 14, 2011, 09:46:46 AM
I loved your post Keys!  I think you are completely doing the right thing.  I will tell you guys what I did this week.  If you read my medical update, you know I now have a diagnosis.  With my brother being diagnosed with a different autoimmune 2 years ago, and now I have one and have been reading, there is evidence that autoimmunes are running in some families.  Strangely, relatives are getting different autoimmunes, but still in the autoimmune family.

So after not contacting my OS for 7 months, I decided to send him a text.  Not a guilty text about "Mom is sick...you should feel bad about not talking to me" one, but a medically informative one.  I simply wrote, "I know we are not communicating right now, but I need to let you know about some medical information that you need to keep in mind for future reference.  I have been diagnosed with Linear/Deep Morphea and your Uncle has been diagnosed with Sarcoidosis.  Both are autoimmune diseases.  I wanted you to know to have for medical history purposes.  I love you and think about you often.  Mom."

I truly had good intentions when I sent it.  I was thinking of giving him information and I didn't expect an answer.  There was one teeny tiny part of me that did hope he would at least write back.  Sorry, thanks for the info, what's that, something.  Nada.  Never got anything back and it did hurt to know that my own Son did that to me.  So even though it hurt, 99% of me expected it.  There was this one small 1% that thought I might at least get a "Ok".  But it also gave me clarification that I am doing the right thing.  He is not the person I once knew and if I needed total proof, that was it.  The door is still open for him anytime, but the crack is getting smaller.

Great to see you Hope and Chelms...I'm doing some vacuuming today!  ;D

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on August 14, 2011, 09:53:32 AM
I feel for you, Pooh. That 1% lives on in most of us. Up until my son died...it was there. Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pooh on August 14, 2011, 09:57:33 AM
Thanks.  I don't expect the 1% to ever go away.  If it did...well I would be him! Lol.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Hope on August 14, 2011, 11:11:40 AM
Pooh,
Sorry to hear of your diagnosis and lack of response from your os.  Ouch!  I feel your pain and it's severe.
It makes me wonder what our sons go through to change so much - they must be very unhappy.
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: forever spring on August 14, 2011, 11:42:31 AM
Really sorry to hear about your diagnosis. Hope you are bearing up well. It was really fair of you to inform your son because it makes future diagnosis of any medical problems he may have a lot easier. He will understand this in time, but probably only when he gets sick.

We never expected so much future pain when we held our babies in our arms when they were born, did we? They gave us so much joy. That has been our reward.

Keep 1 % hope alive. It can grow. Time can be a healer.

My thoughts are with you.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on August 14, 2011, 11:48:46 AM
KeysGirl, I love your posts and your attitude. Your spa day plan sounds like a good way to spend the day, very healing and nurturing.

Pooh, I don't think that having 1% hope is at all unrealistic considering if we told a co-worker or casual aquaintance our medical symptoms we'd more than likely get a caring, concerned response. It's such a shame some of us can't even count on that from our own adult children. We expect people to be kind; that's a good outlook even if it hurts sometimes, I think.

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on August 15, 2011, 08:41:22 AM
Ladies, thank you for your insight.  Pooh, I'm sorry to hear about your health issues, I would try to keep the stress levels down as much as possible, and hope you improve before long.

I spent some time with some fun friends this weekend and it reminded me of where I want to to spend my time, enjoying fun and cheerful people who don't have an axe to grind or are whining about something or other.

I expect my son will call me within 48 hours of the wedding with a surprised "Oh we don't understand why you aren't coming" remark.  He did this last year, for another annual event, however if you want me to attend a wedding I need an invitation and common courtesy for at least the previous 3 months.

Well, onward and upward, I'm out of patience for the turmoil and dealing with these two and the upcoming nuptials has caused me so I'm going to close the chapter on that book and move forward to a place where I deserve to be, where I spend time with the people who I care about and who genuinely care about me and to a life that has a lot more peace and quiet because my energy isn't being sucked dry by two people who should be spending a few hours with Dr. Phil.


Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: sesamejane on August 16, 2011, 09:39:23 PM
Just wanted to add KG that answering machines are wonderful things.  I don't know when it occurred to me that i do not have to answer the phone or "be available" for phone calls, but I bless that day. 

Please post and let us know how Sept goes. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers...

Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Ruth on August 18, 2011, 02:43:55 PM
I am literally beside myself with being inspired and encouraged by your posts, Keys Girl.  The first story was amazing enough in itself, but when I came to the place that the DS contacted you and invited you to 'view the new digs' my admiration for you took a leap over the moon.   Had this happened to me (and similar scenarios with DS have in the past) I would run, not walked, to that house and thrown my arms around DS, weeping with eyes glistening with love and tenderness.   Wrong.   thank you for showing me a more excellent way.   One other post somewhere on this website mentioned that 'the nicer I am, the worse he treats me', and I applaud this.  It my case also it is true.  I believe you are right, and I thank you for holding the line.  Volumes could be written about this, but I think most of us on the site 'get it' and stand back in awe of your courage and good sense in doing the right thing.  Allowing evil to flourish is ...well, evil.  I'm hanging on to your ideas and going to try and implement them into my own life.   God love you, dear one.

Pooh, oh I am so sorry that you are ill.  You are such a blessing and attribute to this site.  I wish I could hug all of you.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: justanoldgrandma on August 18, 2011, 07:44:32 PM
I just found this thread as I am fairly new to the site; I'm so sorry for the health issues of Pooh and Keys..... and the thoughtless responses/nonresponses of the sons.  As I read Key's story, tears and anger welled up inside me.

  I have a friend whose son was emotionally detached from her and his father after so many years of mutual love which came from the dil's attachment only to her family; the paternal side (now gparents) were left in the cold.  My friend and her husband decided to "adopt" another family that needed and wanted loving "parents."  They still maintained contact w their son but gave their trust to the adopted family.  The son was amazed when his parents had other plans for holidays; soon he was seeking them out.  Now my friend's relationship w son and dil and gc is much better and she has 2 families to dote on..... but she never cowtowed to her son/dil and once told him to "man up" to his wife.

I know this situation wouldn't work w many; she was never cut off from her son or treated so rudely as Keys and others; just rather forgotten unless she contacted him.  Now he is contacting her, partly, I think, of jealousy of the other family she loves and partly bc he has grown to appreciate her.  Again, I think this is a rare occurrence but I remember it bc it shows we need to go on w other interests and people in our lives when our beloved sons begin to ignore/mistreat us.  So hard.  The loves of our lives.

Both of our sons indulged their wives as soon as they got serious; one was being emotionally abused and fearful of her disapproval; the other allows his wife to set her family above us, allowing her to set the family calendar, leaving us out on holidays.  We aren't cut out..... just not the favored ones although we have done everything "right":  not intruded, no advice, show affection to both, etc.  But as someone said, the more one does, the less is appreciated when the dil is narcissistic.

I know I have allowed dil to be bossy (she is to her family as well as to ds); it came on gradually before I realized it as I didn't know such girls existed.  Now w gc I tread lightly bc we still get to see them and overall are on good terms; we just aren't the center of their lives as the other parents are. 

I have been thinking for quite some time I need to detach my feelings and devote more to dh, make more friends, help others, be good to myself.  I even had counseling bc my self-esteem was suffering. 

I'm still working on this as I know once the young men are married to such women they are no longer the devoted sons they once were.  I am fortunate to have the contact that I do; but I still need to work on the "My life is important too" concept......




Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on August 19, 2011, 05:57:34 AM
Thank you, Ruth and Justanoldgrandma, for your comments.  I often think of the chorus of this song, it reminds me to make the most of MY time here on the planet and let the "rug rat kids" share their demands, etc. with someone else.........anyone else but me. (I might put this song on my telephone as a ringtone),


Trooper We're Here For A Good Time Lyrics

A very good friend of mine
Told me something the other day
I'd like to pass it on to you,
Cause I believe what he said to be true
He said:
(CHORUS) We're here for a good time
Not a long time (not a long time)
So have a good time
The sun can't shine everyday
And the sun is shinin,
In this rainy city,
And the sun is shinin,
Ooh isn't a pity?
That every year has it's share of tears,
Every now and then it's gotta rain
(CHORUS)
And the sun is shinin,
In this rainy city,
And the sun is shinin,
Ooh isn't a pity?
That every year has it's share of tears,
Every now and then it's gotta rain
(REPEAT CHORUS X 5)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Rose799 on August 19, 2011, 07:11:35 AM
Thanks Keys, I heard it on YouTube & love it!  Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: justanoldgrandma on August 19, 2011, 08:07:44 AM
Keys Girl, this video says it all!  I know I dwell on petty things and perceived slights that don't amount to a "hill of beans" as they say!

(I'm not referring to serious health problems or bad treatment from your son/dil; those are serious situations and I'm glad you have decided to improve your health as much as possible and to reduce the stress of the family by detaching and living your own life as in the video.) 

When I think of happy women I know, they seem to be putting aside things I may be obsessing over and just enjoying the minutes "when the sun does shine!"  We are here for a short time, indeed.

Thanks for the song!  Love it!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Ross99 on August 20, 2011, 03:58:47 AM
Clapping for you too. You are where it took me 3 years to get to. I did the "walking on eggshells", trying to meet their expectations and basically be someone I'm not. I finally came to the realization that I'm too old and tired to play their childish games. Actually, my DSIL said something that woke me up. He said he just wasn't willing to play their games. I hadn't thought of it in that way ( yet).
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on August 20, 2011, 08:02:01 AM
Wow, is the world ready for all these empowered MILs? I love it! You all are such an inspiration to me 'cos somedays I'm rockin' it but on other days.....

I'm not anywhere close to where you guys are. But I aim to be.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on August 20, 2011, 10:09:14 AM
We aren't there all the time, Pen. We come and we go. Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Rose799 on August 20, 2011, 01:26:00 PM
Quote from: Pen on August 20, 2011, 08:02:01 AM
I'm not anywhere close to where you guys are. But I aim to be.

Me, too, Pen.  What an inspiration these gals are, huh?  I'm working at it, I've got my sights set & I've got my big girl panties on now...   ;D
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pooh on August 21, 2011, 03:21:55 PM
Maybe that's a good way to think of all of us.  We are like the tide...we ebb and flow but we need to realize that even when the tide's out...it WILL come back in.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Ruth on August 24, 2011, 07:58:58 AM
My sister used to tell me 'every day can't be sunny!'  I could have slapped her for that sometimes.  It was true for her, with the hand she had been dealt,  but for me, I barely ever saw the sun peek through the black clouds.  I lived with one foot in the grave for ten years, just near dead with depression.  Nothing helped me, it seemed even God had turned his back.  There are much more sunny days now than there used to be, but sometimes its an uphill struggle.  Thanks to all of you who regularly give me encouragement, I hope I am able to give back some of the warm wishes I feel for each of you.  We can choose to take the high road. 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pooh on August 24, 2011, 09:38:06 AM
Yes we can Ruth and you offer great inspiration here all the time!  I am so proud of you for all your accomplishments.  Pulling yourself up by the bootstraps is a hard feat in many cases, but YOU DID IT!  You are an amazing woman and are very uplifting to me.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Nana on August 25, 2011, 12:23:47 AM
Ruth...I am so glad you are visualizing things differently now.  We all have sunny days...and some cloudy ones also.  But it is how we conceive our lives.   Trying to find the sun where we see dark must be quite difficult.  But we women can be so strong...and we have to hold on to what we consider is left for us...and then, there is a start again....trying to get day by day a little more.  Life always has something to offer...big or small....  I have a friend who was passing through a real hard time, husband had left with his lover, bla bla....so in the midst of all this pain....I was there for many hours because she needed my company... When I was about to leave she ask me "Could you take me Wal Mart because I need to buy a CD to tape a tv show I like very much" I laughed...she had tears in her eyes.... I was amazed....she had the mood to record a tv show?  well, she did.  She was holding on to the little things that life was offering her at that moment. 

I like your new attitude...and you''ll see, Life can be beautiful...inspite of...

Sending you love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Rose799 on August 25, 2011, 10:08:20 AM
Quote from: Ruth on August 24, 2011, 07:58:58 AM
My sister used to tell me 'every day can't be sunny!'  I could have slapped her for that sometimes.  It was true for her, with the hand she had been dealt,  but for me, I barely ever saw the sun peek through the black clouds.  I lived with one foot in the grave for ten years, just near dead with depression.  Nothing helped me, it seemed even God had turned his back.  There are much more sunny days now than there used to be, but sometimes its an uphill struggle.  Thanks to all of you who regularly give me encouragement, I hope I am able to give back some of the warm wishes I feel for each of you.  We can choose to take the high road.

It's not a pretty place to find yourself in, I've been there myself.  I'm learning to shift my focus to the blessings in my life, most of which I also have no control over, but rather to just appreciate & be in the moment.  You've been a blessing to many of us.  I'm glad you're here Ruth.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on August 25, 2011, 10:29:20 AM
I agree!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on August 25, 2011, 11:11:03 AM
Blessings! I find when I am listing mine..I can only think of one thing at a time...so lack disappears!  :)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on September 17, 2011, 04:16:23 PM
I am on to Chapter Two.........the Chapter of my life where I don't wait for a wedding to happen.  I did not attend my son's wedding, I wasn't invited.  It's been difficult from time to time to feel the rejection of being left out but I remembered so many days of his life that were important when he was young, when I WAS there.  Many times before the age of about 16, his father never showed up for anything but I never missed a thing.  There was a certain relief in knowing that the day was finally behind me, and I wondered at different times of the day, what were they doing and how did it go.  My blood pressure stayed in the close to normal range and I didn't find myself anywhere near a hospital.  I feel that I've extended my life expectancy by putting myself first and I'm happy with that.

I don't know for sure if the wedding took place, I assume it did because I didn't hear anything so that "officially" makes me a MIL.  I'm starting a new acronym - "MILD" which stands for "Mother In Law, Distant" (as in not in touch with the "kids").

If I wasn't invited to the wedding it's because they chose who to invite and didn't chose me.  I respected their choices and didn't protest, and don't see myself being a part of their life in the future. 

I'm happy the date of the wedding is behind me, I started moving on with my life some time ago and I know that the days where profound sadness would hit me are done.  I think the wedding date is like a type of "Finish Line" for me.  I'm finished with thinking or dwelling or feeling guilty or trying to figure out two adults who don't want me to  be a part of their life. 

This site has been a huge factor in my ability to batten down the hatches against the hurricane of guilt, hostility and "try as they might" manipulation.

To Luise, thank you from the bottom of my heart.


Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on September 17, 2011, 05:45:02 PM
You are so welcome. We love you, K. How wonderful for you to get that you did a great job, loved doing it and...that your job is done. DS will do whatever he does with the life you gave him, no strings attached,  and you can get on with yours. Sure there will be setbacks but you are on your way. Sending love...
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on September 17, 2011, 11:34:46 PM
Keys Girl, may Chapter Two be fulfilling and joyous. Thank you for sharing your amazing insights with us; I have a long way to go before I reach your level of awareness and acceptance, but you are a great role model.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pooh on September 18, 2011, 10:06:08 AM
Your seasons are changing Keys and with them, hope and promise of a wonderful new life!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Begonia on September 18, 2011, 10:47:29 AM
Keys Girl:  You are strong and wise.  Your post was written so well.  My heart goes out to you and I really like that you have focused on all the time that you were included.  Good for you on Chapter TWO!  Me too, bless you and thanks for your insights, they give me hope for the next phase of my own life. 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Hope on September 18, 2011, 11:30:38 AM
Keys,  keep up your positive outlook!  I applaude you!  The best thing you can do is to just be yourself.  You are amazing!
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on September 18, 2011, 06:17:12 PM
Thank you ladies, I'll still be around from time to time, but the state of distraught panic that I was in when I came to this site last year, has thankfully evolved to a much better place with the help of many here.

I can't help but think at times when I read through some of the posts, that this gathering of older and younger women is somewhat like the movie "Steel Magnolias", each one with their own dilemmas, sometimes tragedies that fill all of our lives but with the strength and fabric of support that can only be found by women helping other women shining through.



Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on July 04, 2012, 07:38:46 PM
Postscript -

When the hostilities started almost 3 years ago, I was on my way to see my eye doctor.  The meeting didn't go well, she told me that she saw evidence of a type of cloud behind one of my eyes that is often the beginnings of glacauma but she also said that it could be due to extreme stress.  I told her what was going on and she said she would monitor it on my next visit to make sure it hadn't gotten worse.

Somehow my appointment for last year was forgotten and I just went to see her today.  No evidence of the cloud, she says my eyes are just fine and she pointed out on her scan where my veins had been constricted on the last visit due to high blood pressure, and now, they aren't.

While there are still days when I wish that my relationship with my son hadn't gone the way of the Titanic, but on a day like today I'm very pleased that I'm getting good news from my doctor when it could be otherwise if I hadn't stuck to my guns and put myself and my blood pressure issues first.

Luise was right "Stress can kill" and it can do a world of damage to your eyes, not even counting strokes, aneurisms, etc.

KG
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on July 04, 2012, 07:52:16 PM
KG - What incredibly good news and validation! I'm thrilled to see the concrete evidence that you are rescuing yourself.  :)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pen on July 05, 2012, 12:26:09 AM
That's amazing, KG. Thanks for letting us know. I'm glad you've recovered and that you continue to take good care of yourself. You've given us all a great lesson.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Doe on July 05, 2012, 06:29:12 AM
That is good news and inspiring!
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Pooh on July 05, 2012, 10:27:45 AM
That's wonderful!  Isn't it amazing what our bodies can do internally to fight back?
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on July 05, 2012, 10:43:39 AM
I forgot to mention, my Doctor says I have "second sight" a phenomenon found in people over 55 whose long term vision improves slightly as their short term vision declines as they get older.  She says it is the only benefit to growing old! 
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: constantmargaret on July 05, 2012, 10:50:17 AM
I just read this thread this morning. After I finished, I looked at the thread title again. Two things struck me.
1. It seems you no longer are looking outward for advice, but are listening to yourself and respecting what you hear and 2. You are the one doing the "allowing" now.
Of course it's a shame that your relationship with your DS has tanked, but your relationship with yourself has improved. And there's always that 1%. It ain't over till the fat lady sings, you know?

I really admire your evolution through this unpleasant struggle. Thanks for sharing with us.

BTW, my husband's vision is improving with age too. I guess it's a benefit to him, but it's bad news for me. I'm going to go change the lightbulbs to 15 watters.
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: lancaster lady on July 05, 2012, 01:30:33 PM
I always thought we became short sighted as we age , so as not to see the wrinkles .... :)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: luise.volta on July 05, 2012, 05:45:54 PM
I could give you a long list of the good things about growing old.  Even through my sight isn't one of them. I got shingles in my eye six years ago and after two surgeries, one a cornea transplant, they are still there, destroying the new cornea. None the less, the short version is I am healthier, happier, and more fulfilled than ever before and my family tells me l'm funnier and get this...prettier, as I head for 90. :) I have an incredible family and marvelous friends and love my communities; here in my retirement center and at Curves. I don't 'go to work' but checks come in every month, anyhow. Two cyber-communities have won my heart...www.MyFitness.com (thank you , Pooh) and you guys. My life is sweet, my home is comfortable, I feel strong and useful...and I'm still learning and growing at 85.  8)
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on July 05, 2012, 07:12:55 PM
Luise, you such a great role model!!

Love, KG
Title: Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her
Post by: Keys Girl on July 05, 2012, 07:21:32 PM
Quote from: constantmargaret on July 05, 2012, 10:50:17 AM
I just read this thread this morning. After I finished, I looked at the thread title again. Two things struck me.
1. It seems you no longer are looking outward for advice, but are listening to yourself and respecting what you hear and 2. You are the one doing the "allowing" now.
Of course it's a shame that your relationship with your DS has tanked, but your relationship with yourself has improved. And there's always that 1%. It ain't over till the fat lady sings, you know?

I really admire your evolution through this unpleasant struggle. Thanks for sharing with us.

BTW, my husband's vision is improving with age too. I guess it's a benefit to him, but it's bad news for me. I'm going to go change the lightbulbs to 15 watters.

ConstantMargaret, you are right, it's been quite a journey.  I remember how panic stricken I was when I realized that my son was cooperating with his domineering future wife in giving me the "cold shoulder".  I'll never forget the moment when I realized that I was being left to twist in the wind, but you are right, I trust in myself a whole lot more and I have some higher standard of who I want in my life, so yes, I do the "allowing".  It's been a painful journey but   I'm happy about where the path has taken me.

The Fat Lady may sing eventually, but I'm not sitting around waiting for that swan song!

Don't forget to get the pink 15 waters, they will make his skin look a whole lot better!

KG