I hope it is okay to do this. I truly want to know what the people...mils and dils...on this board think of these questions. This is a post from another bulletin board. In some ways, I think it perfectly sums up the totally different povs that different generations can come from.
I am not assigning any wrongness or rightness to this...I genuinely want to know what people think and where they are coming from. I am also not implying that women here think this way. I'm asking because I think part of it is generational and I'm interested in hearing different pov's.:
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Does anyone feel like this lately? (Maybe it's just me and my preggo hormones--please tell me if it is.)
Nothing is sacred for parents anymore!!! Somehow, in every aspect of parenting, grandparents have weaseled their way in, and it's like we have to fight for our parenting rights. Then, we're looked at as being "spoiled" and "meeeean" or "selfish". I'm so tired of it. (these are things I have heard over the past year or so)....
The birth? Oh no, grandparents feel they should be there--after all, it IS their first grandchild!
Feeding the baby? Even if you BF, GPs think you should pump so they can bond that way too, with the child.
Announcing the baby? How many times have we read about posts on FB, or sending out X-mas cards, or birth announcements?
Showers? Please---GPs showers are growing in popularity, and they make me sick (yes, MIL had one).
Choosing the name? Again, we hear time and time again about GPs who feel they have the right to either pick the name themselves, or comment on the ones we've picked.
Mother's Day? Not only do we have to share these days, but now there is also GP's day, and even the lovely MIL's day. Ugh. Seriously?
So, again, I ask---what is sacred? To me these all are, and the parents are slowly being pushed out. I really hope our generation realizes this, and backs off so that our children can be parents rather than having to fight US for the position.
Thoughts?
Hey Glitter. I'm like you, I don't think their is a wrong or right answer, just personal beliefs, but here goes my beliefs on these.
Does anyone feel like this lately? (Maybe it's just me and my preggo hormones--please tell me if it is.)
Nothing is sacred for parents anymore!!! Somehow, in every aspect of parenting, grandparents have weaseled their way in, and it's like we have to fight for our parenting rights. Then, we're looked at as being "spoiled" and "meeeean" or "selfish". I'm so tired of it. (these are things I have heard over the past year or so)....I think every situation is different. I think there are GP that are over-bearing and too involved. I also think there are parents that don't include GP in anything and leave the GP feeling like they are not important. Every situation and story is different.
The birth? Oh no, grandparents feel they should be there--after all, it IS their first grandchild!Yes, I want to be at all my GC births. Not to be intrusive, but because I am also excited and proud. But I am happy to sit in the waiting room until my Sons and their Wives come out later and say, "Come meet your GC".
Feeding the baby? Even if you BF, GPs think you should pump so they can bond that way too, with the child.I think feeding a baby is just such a precious moment that I love to do it. Even my friend's babies. Something innocent and sweet about feeding a baby. But only after DIL and DS have had their time doing it for while. But I would in no way ask my DIL to pump so I could do it. If they are BF, then I am fine with not feeding the baby at all.
Announcing the baby? How many times have we read about posts on FB, or sending out X-mas cards, or birth announcements? I'm a little unclear on this one. If you mean sending "Official" announcements in lieu of letting the parents do it? Then NO WAY. They should have that honor. But if you mean telling people that my GC is here and healthy, and I'm all excited, well yes.
Showers? Please---GPs showers are growing in popularity, and they make me sick (yes, MIL had one).I don't get this one. I would never expect or want a GP shower.
Choosing the name? Again, we hear time and time again about GPs who feel they have the right to either pick the name themselves, or comment on the ones we've picked.I would never expect or want to pick out the babies names. That's a parent's decision. Make a comment? Well, yes I am guilty of that. But that's because my Son commented that if they ever had a child and it was a boy, he wanted to name him after his favorite movie character from Gladiator....Maximus Desimus. I believe I commented that he really needed to think about that one because kids could be cruel in school with unusual names. That was the extent.
Mother's Day? Not only do we have to share these days, but now there is also GP's day, and even the lovely MIL's day. Ugh. Seriously?I am not sure exactly what is meant by "share this" day. If it means because you are now a Mother, you think the GM should not be honored also as a Mother on the same day, ummm...can't agree. Yes, it is your day now to be honored, but we are also Mothers too. As far as the rest of the days, I don't have an issue with them, but don't celebrate all of them. We also have Boss's Day, Administrative Assistant Day, Teacher's Day and Dispatcher Days and I celebrate those with co-workers and sent gifts to teachers years ago. Not sure what the big deal about this one is.
So, again, I ask---what is sacred? To me these all are, and the parents are slowly being pushed out. I really hope our generation realizes this, and backs off so that our children can be parents rather than having to fight US for the position.I agree that if you have over-bearing GPs, they need to back off and let the parents be the parents. But I think our children need to also remember to include the GPs every once in a while. Again, I think every situation is unique and we have to be careful not to generalize or stereotype. I think on this forum, we have it going both ways.
Ditto.
As a DIL, I think Glitter and Pooh have a pretty good handle on what is appropriate. I spent a lot of time on my Christmas Card this year, and I'm a little behind. It was my first year to get to do it (I wanted to wait to see IF I ever was able to have a baby). My MIL has taken care of it for me now, I haven't said anything, but it hurts. Sending out the Christmas Card is my own special way of letting my DH's family know I'm thinking about them. I can still send them to my family, but I know them so well that cards seem silly. It feels redundant now that they already got a photo (not a Christmas one, just one from October) of my DD. The wind has kind of been taken out of my sails. I'm being silly, but I guess it's a peeve of mine, Holiday photos are off limits.
Are there registries for the GP showers? I'm wondering what a GP gets? A crib? If there are, I think that money would be more useful being spent on the soon to be parents. I suppose if it is just celebratory lunch, that is a different story.
Sorry, I meant Anna and Pooh...and now Barbie. :-\
I am much more interested in personal experiences and individual questions than I am in general questions from other sites and hypothetical discussions...but that's just me. Sending love...
Quote from: 1Glitterati on December 16, 2010, 04:43:32 PM
My two cents:
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The birth? Oh no, grandparents feel they should be there--after all, it IS their first grandchild! The decision of who should be in the delivery room and at the hospital should be 100% up to the mother to be. She is the patient in the medical procedure that is taking place and her comfort/well-being/privacy should be the most important thing that day. Stressing her out or forcing her into a situation that she is not comfortable with is not good for her and it is not good for the baby.
Feeding the baby? Even if you BF, GPs think you should pump so they can bond that way too, with the child. IMHO how feeding is carried out should be up to the new parents. Some people don't want to expose their babies to the plastics in bottles. That said, if the new parents are bottle feeding, I don't see why they wouldn't want to allow others to also feed the baby. However, when the baby is new, others should understand that the new parents may need a few weeks before they are ready to share.
Announcing the baby? How many times have we read about posts on FB, or sending out X-mas cards, or birth announcements? I personally have never understood why people get so touchy about who told who what when. I really don't care if my parents or DH's parents tell someone about a marriage, kid, or other big announcement. Others feel differently. The important thing is to respect how the people in your life feel about announcements.
Showers? Please---GPs showers are growing in popularity, and they make me sick (yes, MIL had one). I think GP showers are kinda creepy and would think it strange if my parents or DH's parents wanted one (they wouldn't). However, that would be entirely up to them (I would not feel obligated to attend).
Choosing the name? Again, we hear time and time again about GPs who feel they have the right to either pick the name themselves, or comment on the ones we've picked. I think EVERYONE thinks they should get their two cents in about names. It is annoying, but not just a GP thing.
Mother's Day? Not only do we have to share these days, but now there is also GP's day, and even the lovely MIL's day. Ugh. Seriously? I think we run into problems like this one when either the DIL or MIL think that they should be the center of attention and everyone's "Princess for a Day" on special days. I personally don't like being the center of attention and think it is strange when others are desperate to have all eyes and attention on them. Why so insecure? This type of attitude makes me want to withdraw and run for the hills. So, no--I have no problem "sharing" this day, but would be really creeped out (and would likely withdraw) if someone else adopted the "Princess for a Day" attitude around me.
I was in labor for 28 hours with my first. I didn't want anyone waiting in the waiting room. My inlaws visited for a bit and left. My parents visited. My dad left and my mom stayed. We had previously planned for no one but us and the doula...but when it came down to it...frankly, I wanted my mother. Had anyone stayed in the waiting room and waited that long...I would not have been happy about it or wanted to see them.
The second time...Dh didn't even call his parents until after the baby was born. I don't know when that happened...they didn't visit at the hospital at all. Didn't bother me a bit. I don't understand the wanting to wait in the waiting room. I want to be in the waiting room if someone is having a surgery that is serious and there might be a need for me to be there. I don't see that there will ever be a need for me to wait out someone else's l&d. Nor do I want to. If I have a future dil that invites me to do so...I'm say no thank you and say I'd love to have a call after the baby has arrived and the new family has had a chance to spend a little time with one another.
The announcement thing would bother me. I don't mean telling other people...I mean a special printed out and sent out to people in the mail announcement. That would make me livid. So would the Xmas cards. Don't put my kids on your cards and send them out to god knows who. No pictures of my kids sent to other people unless I do it.
Quote from: 1Glitterati on December 17, 2010, 12:00:34 PM
I don't understand the wanting to wait in the waiting room. I want to be in the waiting room if someone is having a surgery that is serious and there might be a need for me to be there. I don't see that there will ever be a need for me to wait out someone else's l&d. Nor do I want to. If I have a future dil that invites me to do so...I'm say no thank you and say I'd love to have a call after the baby has arrived and the new family has had a chance to spend a little time with one another.
It appeared our dd felt similar. She also thought nothing would go wrong. Dh & I had just gotten to the hospital when the nurse came out saying dd needed an emergency c-section. The cord was wrapped around gs's neck, causing his heart rate to drop. As a parent who has always been available any time my dc needed me, I really don't understand what possible harm was caused by us sitting in a waiting room. DD was in recovery when we saw gs. We dropped in to see her for a minute & left before gs was brought up to her room, so that dd & sil had alone time with their new son.
A good friend & dh was not allowed at the hospital to wait for the birth of their gd. The labor lasted for 2 days. I couldn't help but wonder if they would be allowed to attend the funeral if things went terribly wrong.
Gp's shouldn't be interfering, but I think c need to understand that we don't stop caring just because you become an adult. I sat with at home with another close friend while ds, in his 50's, had an angiogram. The poor woman wrung her hands, waiting to hear from the family members. After several hours, I called the hospital & relayed to her that ds was fine & back in his room. It didn't make her feel any better. The hurt was too deep. She was the best kind of friend, mother, MIL, & GM that anybody could ask for.
How selfish can people be...?
My personal take on all of this is ask the DIL before the child comes, what she would like and then respect her wishes...do not ask son....he is not the one having the baby...and she is a part of him now...so, ask her how she feels about all these questions, and then respect her wishes...it shows that you care about her feelings, and that you acknowledge she is a part of a whole with your son.
If you ask your son, of course, most son's will say yes, and then have to go home and live with his answer b/c he fears saying no to you, which starts a huge argument and only causes more hard feelings between MIL and DIL...
As far as a Granparents shower or party, again, it's up to the individual...me, I'd feel like I'm asking people to bring gifts or putting them in the position that they feel like they must give gifts...and DIL might not want you to be that involved with her child...yes, it is your grandchild, however, it is not our child....
I have noticed marketing is bringing all these new holidays alive to sell products and people are buying into it....
All these questions are strictly personal opinion and what we like and don't like, but before I'd do anything or take liberty to do anything, I would first ask my DIL...why, because it's her child, not mine...and I want to do what she feels comfortable with, nothing more, nothing less, and MIL"s listen to your DIL, if she says no, hear her...please...give her the feeling that she comes first, and I believe things would go much smoother
Haha...I think this is definitely a good question to see where we differ. I wanted whoever in the waiting room. When the time came, it turns out, I had no idea who was out there, and I didn't see them b/c I had a c-section. It worked out great! However, for my emergency situations, I went alone. My husband was deployed, so I went by myself. I would want to be alone with my husband if things had gone wrong, no one else. I know people worry and want to help, but sometimes the best thing they can do is give some space.
My Grandmother came up to the emergency room for one of my miscarriages, and it was awful. I felt like I had to be strong...for her. I couldn't read my book that I brought to try and distract myself. I couldn't eat, but she was hungry so brought fastfood in with her. I couldn't drink water, but she had this giant water bottle with her. I couldn't ask the doctor the right questions...and I couldn't even cry, which is what I wanted to do most of all. When I got home later that night, my dad said he wanted to come up in the worst way, but he respected my wishes. I loved that. I really appreciate he did that for me. I promised him I would call with updates if I had any, and that was that. I would've called my grandmother as well had she allowed me to do that.
Nothing is sacred for parents anymore!!! Somehow, in every aspect of parenting, grandparents have weaseled their way in, and it's like we have to fight for our parenting rights. Then, we're looked at as being "spoiled" and "meeeean" or "selfish". I'm so tired of it. (these are things I have heard over the past year or so)....Not true. It's been like this for a milleninnium. I know. I am THAT old. ;) Oh, Yes...you ARE spoiled!! lol now go text someone.
The birth? Oh no, grandparents feel they should be there--after all, it IS their first grandchild! And why not??? The dads are there. The baby catcher. Nursing staff. Your bff. Her boyfriend. The guy that hooked you up with some fab faux prada bags. The girl ready to do ANOTHER bikini wax. And some random dude you met at starbucks. I don't see a problem with it. They all know the carpet doesn't match the drapery. LOL
Feeding the baby? Even if you BF, GPs think you should pump so they can bond that way too, with the child. Since you do it when you need them to babysit at a moment's notice, what is the problem here?
Announcing the baby? How many times have we read about posts on FB, or sending out X-mas cards, or birth announcements? Happy Grandparents should be locked up. But then, they get flack if they AREN'T so happy about it they want to shout it from the rooftops! Stop whining.
Showers? Please---GPs showers are growing in popularity, and they make me sick (yes, MIL had one). Then don't accept the gifts. I'll bet if attendees were required to bring hot shoes you'd even cook for it!! How hard is it to open gifts, smile and say thank you? Hmmm...it's the thank you part, huh?
Choosing the name? Again, we hear time and time again about GPs who feel they have the right to either pick the name themselves, or comment on the ones we've picked. Like I said, this has been going on for centuries. Deal.
Mother's Day? Not only do we have to share these days, but now there is also GP's day, and even the lovely MIL's day. Ugh. Seriously? We are removing Christmas and YOUR BIRTHDAY so you can forget about mothers/GP's day, k?
So, again, I ask---what is sacred? To me these all are, and the parents are slowly being pushed out. I really hope our generation realizes this, and backs off so that our children can be parents rather than having to fight US for the position.Let's see, you equate "parents being pushed out" by the gps being in the birth room, wanting to announce the birth as much as possible to as many as possible, having get together gift giving parties for YOU AND BABY, wanting to share in the naming of baby, oh, and wanting to bond by feeding newborn?? Yep, you DO sound spoiled. Just don't ask us to babysit for free ----EVER and I think we'll be even.
Quote from: Rose799 on December 17, 2010, 12:50:03 PM
Quote from: 1Glitterati on December 17, 2010, 12:00:34 PM
I don't understand the wanting to wait in the waiting room. I want to be in the waiting room if someone is having a surgery that is serious and there might be a need for me to be there. I don't see that there will ever be a need for me to wait out someone else's l&d. Nor do I want to. If I have a future dil that invites me to do so...I'm say no thank you and say I'd love to have a call after the baby has arrived and the new family has had a chance to spend a little time with one another.
It appeared our dd felt similar. She also thought nothing would go wrong. Dh & I had just gotten to the hospital when the nurse came out saying dd needed an emergency c-section. The cord was wrapped around gs's neck, causing his heart rate to drop. As a parent who has always been available any time my dc needed me, I really don't understand what possible harm was caused by us sitting in a waiting room. DD was in recovery when we saw gs. Am I understanding that you saw the baby before his own mother did? Wow. We dropped in to see her for a minute & left before gs was brought up to her room, so that dd & sil had alone time with their new son.
A good friend & dh was not allowed at the hospital to wait for the birth of their gd. The labor lasted for 2 days. I couldn't help but wonder if they would be allowed to attend the funeral if things went terribly wrong. That's apples and oranges. Why does anyone want to camp out for two days in a waiting room while someone is in l&d? I just don't get it. I'd feel stressed for the fact that people were waiting and wanting me to hurry up and have a baby.
Gp's shouldn't be interfering, but I think c need to understand that we don't stop caring just because you become an adult. I sat with at home with another close friend while ds, in his 50's, had an angiogram. The poor woman wrung her hands, waiting to hear from the family members. After several hours, I called the hospital & relayed to her that ds was fine & back in his room. It didn't make her feel any better. The hurt was too deep. She was the best kind of friend, mother, MIL, & GM that anybody could ask for.
How selfish can people be...? In some situations I can see asking that question. In others...I find myself asking---How self-entitled can people be?
Quote from: HappyDays09 on December 17, 2010, 01:54:31 PM
Nothing is sacred for parents anymore!!! Somehow, in every aspect of parenting, grandparents have weaseled their way in, and it's like we have to fight for our parenting rights. Then, we're looked at as being "spoiled" and "meeeean" or "selfish". I'm so tired of it. (these are things I have heard over the past year or so)....Not true. It's been like this for a milleninnium. I know. I am THAT old. ;) Oh, Yes...you ARE spoiled!! lol now go text someone.
The birth? Oh no, grandparents feel they should be there--after all, it IS their first grandchild! And why not??? The dads are there. The baby catcher. Nursing staff. Your bff. Her boyfriend. The guy that hooked you up with some fab faux prada bags. The girl ready to do ANOTHER bikini wax. And some random dude you met at starbucks. I don't see a problem with it. They all know the carpet doesn't match the drapery. LOL
Feeding the baby? Even if you BF, GPs think you should pump so they can bond that way too, with the child. Since you do it when you need them to babysit at a moment's notice, what is the problem here?
Announcing the baby? How many times have we read about posts on FB, or sending out X-mas cards, or birth announcements? Happy Grandparents should be locked up. But then, they get flack if they AREN'T so happy about it they want to shout it from the rooftops! Stop whining.
Showers? Please---GPs showers are growing in popularity, and they make me sick (yes, MIL had one). Then don't accept the gifts. I'll bet if attendees were required to bring hot shoes you'd even cook for it!! How hard is it to open gifts, smile and say thank you? Hmmm...it's the thank you part, huh?
Choosing the name? Again, we hear time and time again about GPs who feel they have the right to either pick the name themselves, or comment on the ones we've picked. Like I said, this has been going on for centuries. Deal.
Mother's Day? Not only do we have to share these days, but now there is also GP's day, and even the lovely MIL's day. Ugh. Seriously? We are removing Christmas and YOUR BIRTHDAY so you can forget about mothers/GP's day, k?
So, again, I ask---what is sacred? To me these all are, and the parents are slowly being pushed out. I really hope our generation realizes this, and backs off so that our children can be parents rather than having to fight US for the position.Let's see, you equate "parents being pushed out" by the gps being in the birth room, wanting to announce the birth as much as possible to as many as possible, having get together gift giving parties for YOU AND BABY, wanting to share in the naming of baby, oh, and wanting to bond by feeding newborn?? Yep, you DO sound spoiled. Just don't ask us to babysit for free ----EVER and I think we'll be even.
Happy...the gp showers are not gifts for the mom and baby. They are gifts for the grandmother. And...are you really serious about your responses? Especially the one where if the dad can be there why cant you? If you are...I understand some things a lot more clearly now.
Actually, everyone's answers have been very helpful. Thank you.
Glitter, you know we all have different feelings on these matters. some are stronger then others, and I don't think anyone is wrong for the way they feel about it all, and if we can all take that into account, and realize that, accept it and allow it....allow people to have they're own opinions on situations like this, well, wouldn't it be nice...maybe there wouldn't be wars if we as human beings could understand that and just shrug it off and allow people to live they're own lives the way they would like to...take a step back and simply let them have they're day in the sun...yanno...and I'm not talking to you, I'm posting this for all of us...I think there is a very strong lesson to be learned here...and you've raised some very good points for discussion...your not wrong for feeling the way you do...and maybe time will change all our feelings on this subject in a few years...it's amazing how as I grew olders, my opinions have changed, and I have a lot of DIL's to thank for that...Glitter, your very passionate about your feelings on subjects, and you do come across strong, so do I...however, I do understand you and the whys of why you feel the way you do...it's just that we all feel differently about issues....and you know that...
I've been a tough guy, somewhat bittered by life and people...however, when it comes to my DIL, I can't tell you nhow far we've come, but it was only b/c I took a step back and saw things from her eyes...do we disagree, yes...however, she is the woman my son chose to love, and she is the love of his life....therefore, whatever she wants, I'm willing to do now...the arguing, and wanting my way, was not worth the hurt...and I love her for who she is...for her moxy her strength, her ability to forgive, and try and see things from my perspective...and we both realize, it's not at all about winning...it's about loving so much that your willing to give in...and let go....and allow...and shrug off a lot of things that were not meant to hurt...and I know, I can be very strong willed and a down right pain in the butt...so, she didn't change my son...he never changed, he simply grew up..and became a man....
I don't know why I wrote this? REally I don't...just rambling, again....
There are some DIL's who love they're MIL's dearly and want them in on everything, and there are other DIL's who do not....it's not that a lot of DIL's don't like they're MIL's, what they don't like is that MIL's refuse to accept boundaries....some DIL's are just that way...isn't meant to hurt anyone, they just want to do things on they're own and make they're own mistakes, without advice...we're people, and we're never going to agree all of the time...because we have all been raised differently and seasoned by life...
Hugs and thank you for the discussion.
Quote from: holliberri on December 17, 2010, 01:10:13 PM
My Grandmother came up to the emergency room for one of my miscarriages, and it was awful. I felt like I had to be strong...for her. I couldn't read my book that I brought to try and distract myself. I couldn't eat, but she was hungry so brought fastfood in with her. I couldn't drink water, but she had this giant water bottle with her. I couldn't ask the doctor the right questions...and I couldn't even cry, which is what I wanted to do most of all. When I got home later that night, my dad said he wanted to come up in the worst way, but he respected my wishes. I loved that. I really appreciate he did that for me. I promised him I would call with updates if I had any, and that was that. I would've called my grandmother as well had she allowed me to do that.
I am so sorry. (((((hugs))))))
Creme - that was really beautiful! We are all in the process of growing up . Me, Too and I'm 83! Bless your heart!
My feeling is that things that come over from other forums can cause problems here. I also think that generalizations about any group of people, in this case grandparents, are unfair.
Most of us MILs and/or women of GP age here have been in labor and delivery; it isn't some new-fangled experience invented by the youngsters. Many of us managed to have a meaningful birthing experience without being cruel to other family members. There's a way to handle it that doesn't divide; unless that's the intent all along.
QuoteHappy...the gp showers are not gifts for the mom and baby. They are gifts for the grandmother. And...are you really serious about your responses? Especially the one where if the dad can be there why cant you? If you are...I understand some things a lot more clearly now.
Actually, everyone's answers have been very helpful. Thank you.
I don't understand why you would take the responses personally, you didn't write the post,correct? You copied it, as I understood. But anyway,
no my responses were tongue in cheek.
I cannot believe someone would actually tear into new grandparents in such a manner and ask questions like that. I wholeheartedly agree with Pen. This person - the original poster - seems very upset that her parents/his parents all want to share. I had many sisters that did the same things as she listed some of the new grandparents did/said. They sure came in handy as sitters when I was exhausted. It's give and take.
This poster seems bent on making issues where there are none. And that's a shame. She might just need them some day - but she is bent on pushing them away. IMO.
(Actually, I wrote: "The
dads (plural) are there. It's mostly a jab at the OP, I suppose. What were to happen if she were to ever find herself with out any grandparents at all for her children? NONE? If they just WEASELED their way out of her life all together? She certainly wouldn't have to FIGHT for her parenting rights then, would she) What's funny is if tragedy should ever befall this person she may just have to lean on her parents or his parents for child care, a place for her and kids to live, etc. But I never read how wonderful those grandparents are - but I know of several that are raising those kids until mom and dad can get back on their feet. :) )
Quote from: HappyDays09 on December 17, 2010, 04:59:36 PM
QuoteHappy...the gp showers are not gifts for the mom and baby. They are gifts for the grandmother. And...are you really serious about your responses? Especially the one where if the dad can be there why cant you? If you are...I understand some things a lot more clearly now.
Actually, everyone's answers have been very helpful. Thank you.
I don't understand why you would take the responses personally, you didn't write the post,correct? You copied it, as I understood. But anyway, no my responses were tongue in cheek. I didn't take it personally...and thank you for clarifying tongue in cheek because I really misinterpreted. I really misinterpreted.
I cannot believe someone would actually tear into new grandparents in such a manner and ask questions like that. I wholeheartedly agree with Pen. This person - the original poster - seems very upset that her parents/his parents all want to share. I was genuinely interested in seeing how other people thing...because for most of what was listed in that post...I don't think it's sharing...I think it's overstepping. I'm trying to understand why it wouldn't be considered overstepping. I had many sisters that did the same things as she listed some of the new grandparents did/said. They sure came in handy as sitters when I was exhausted. It's give and take.
This poster seems bent on making issues where there are none. Again...I'm trying to understand...because I can easily see the ops pov. And that's a shame. She might just need them some day - but she is bent on pushing them away. IMO.
(Actually, I wrote: "The dads (plural) are there. It's mostly a jab at the OP, I suppose. What were to happen if she were to ever find herself with out any grandparents at all for her children? NONE? If they just WEASELED their way out of her life all together? She certainly wouldn't have to FIGHT for her parenting rights then, would she) What's funny is if tragedy should ever befall this person she may just have to lean on her parents or his parents for child care, a place for her and kids to live, etc. But I never read how wonderful those grandparents are And, maybe that's because of the board I took it from. It was a parenting board. - but I know of several that are raising those kids until mom and dad can get back on their feet. :) )
No problem 1Glitterati - I should have stated that my responses were not serious. I apologize.
As for the new parent, she/he just sounds a bit near hysterical to me. I was over the moon when my little bundle of joy appeared and I would have loved for a grandparent to even have noticed. Guess there's the flip side to every story, huh?
Quote from: Pen on December 17, 2010, 03:44:23 PM
My feeling is that things that come over from other forums can cause problems here. I also think that generalizations about any group of people, in this case grandparents, are unfair.
Most of us MILs and/or women of GP age here have been in labor and delivery; it isn't some new-fangled experience invented by the youngsters. Many of us managed to have a meaningful birthing experience without being cruel to other family members. There's a way to handle it that doesn't divide; unless that's the intent all along.
I honestly wasn't trying to cause a problem. I was trying to understand. I thought if I actually presented an alternative view from someone else we could talk about it. Yes, the tone was very different from posts usually on here. Perhaps I should have picked better or not at all.
Now, in fact, I'm getting more confused. I just don't see why a birth experience has to include other people. Why other people think they have the right to be there unless invited. Why their feelings would be hurt if they weren't included. Why has birth become a spectator sport that others think they have a right to? How is keeping a moment private being cruel? I really, REALLY don't get it. But, that's okay. I don't think I"m going to get it. :)
I did not say keeping people out of the delivery room was cruel. I didn't want a parade of looky-loos when I was delivering either. I said there are ways to handle it that are not cruel. IOW, kinder ways to express the desires of mom & dad while understanding how excited the enitire family is. The questions from the other site sounded snarky to me and I felt there might be a better way to express those thoughts.
I can't get this at all. People in the delivery room? Grunting, sweating, groaning and all kinds of body fluids around and it's a family event? Yes, I know this is done but my sons were born when even the fathers weren't included. OK by me, I was working! I loved showers and shared pictures. (I'm am so out of it on this one.)
Quote from: Pen on December 17, 2010, 05:31:19 PM
I did not say keeping people out of the delivery room was cruel. I didn't want a parade of looky-loos when I was delivering either. I said there are ways to handle it that are not cruel. IOW, kinder ways to express the desires of mom & dad while understanding how excited the enitire family is. The questions from the other site sounded snarky to me and I felt there might be a better way to express those thoughts.
Ok...yes...there was snark in the op. Do you think it cruel if parents were to say "We'll call you when we go to the hospital, and we'll call you after the baby is born. Please don't come to the hospital and wait." ?
I think every situation is different and since you are the parents, your wishes should be accepted without comment, gracefully.
Glitterati,
Am I understanding that you saw the baby before his own mother did? Wow. Mom & Dad were first to spend time with ds. Sil introduced gs to us after he'd been taken to the nursery. Later, dd was moved from recovery to a regular room, where she was rejoined with ds.
Why does anyone want to camp out for two days in a waiting room while someone is in l&d? I just don't get it. I'd feel stressed for the fact that people were waiting and wanting me to hurry up and have a baby. No one camped out; they never stepped foot in the hospital. They honored the parents wishes. As Pen mentioned, there are kinder ways of dealing with the situation so that extended family doesn't feel hurt. I never expected to be in the delivery room, nor would I have asked to be. And I would not have gone to the hospital if I'd been asked not to. In fact, I had no intention on going that day. Dh urged me to go, asking how I'd feel if something should go wrong? I wish dd would communicate as you do, Glitterati. That has been a lot of the problem.
How selfish can people be...? In some situations I can see asking that question. In others...I find myself asking---How self-entitled can people be? I was beaten down over such things as asking dd to turn sideways once when she was pg, so that I could see how much the baby had grown. I was never allowed the privilege of shopping together with dd before gs was born, etc. Self-entitlement was the last thing I felt that day. I'm sorry if I came off as harsh, Glitterati. It just brought back some very painful memories.
Rose
Quote from: Rose799 on December 17, 2010, 11:24:57 PM
Glitterati,
Am I understanding that you saw the baby before his own mother did? Wow. Mom & Dad were first to spend time with ds. Sil introduced gs to us after he'd been taken to the nursery. Later, dd was moved from recovery to a regular room, where she was rejoined with ds. Ah...I understand the explanation.
Why does anyone want to camp out for two days in a waiting room while someone is in l&d? I just don't get it. I'd feel stressed for the fact that people were waiting and wanting me to hurry up and have a baby. No one camped out; they never stepped foot in the hospital. They honored the parents wishes. As Pen mentioned, there are kinder ways of dealing with the situation so that extended family doesn't feel hurt. I never expected to be in the delivery room, nor would I have asked to be. And I would not have gone to the hospital if I'd been asked not to. In fact, I had no intention on going that day. Dh urged me to go, asking how I'd feel if something should go wrong? I wish dd would communicate as you do, Glitterati. That has been a lot of the problem. I waited until I was older to have kids...and quite frankly I feel old now having turned 40. Do you think any of my being willing to speak up has to do with being older? Or would you chalk it up to your dd's personality?
How selfish can people be...? In some situations I can see asking that question. In others...I find myself asking---How self-entitled can people be? I was beaten down over such things as asking dd to turn sideways once when she was pg, so that I could see how much the baby had grown. I'll support you on that one and say I don't get that. :o I was never allowed the privilege of shopping together with dd before gs was born, etc. Self-entitlement was the last thing I felt that day. I'm sorry if I came off as harsh, Glitterati. It just brought back some very painful memories. I think I should shoot that apology right back at you, too.
Rose
QuoteI honestly wasn't trying to cause a problem. I was trying to understand. I thought if I actually presented an alternative view from someone else we could talk about it. Yes, the tone was very different from posts usually on here. Perhaps I should have picked better or not at all.
Now, in fact, I'm getting more confused. I just don't see why a birth experience has to include other people. Why other people think they have the right to be there unless invited. Why their feelings would be hurt if they weren't included. Why has birth become a spectator sport that others think they have a right to? How is keeping a moment private being cruel? I really, REALLY don't get it. But, that's okay. I don't think I"m going to get it.
Being present at the birth, is still fairly new to an older generation -- my first husband wasn't even allowed near the delivery of our son! My present husband was allowed in for our dd's - but no others at that time.
Would I have allowed my parents and his parents? Knowing me, NO! I would flatly say NO. I would NOT even allow dh to take pix of the blessed event. I certainly wouldn't want my mom/dad/mil/fil in there, too. My private parts are going to remain that way. Seen only by my dh and possibly medical staff at some point.
I also feel it is the mom-to-be's prerogative to state her wishes. If she feels most comfortable with just the husband...so be it. Husband and her mom? So be it. What YOU-general YOU- feel is best for YOU is what your decision should be! The birth experience is AN INDIVIDUAL event - not a TO BE SHARED BY ALL, imho. (Or there would be public viewing windows in L/D rooms, right?) Same with weddings, too, sometimes. Couples want to keep it small and intimate while ils want a big grand event. This isn't their-parents-siblings-etc., life to live. They had theirs.
This is where I feel many couples move away just to truly get away from the "aren't you going to....?"s. Sometimes, it's best to just listen to another before putting the demands into the mix - along with guilt if those demands aren't met. I personally have given in to another wants/needs, put mine aside to only have it be wrong anyway for the person I caved for! You won't win. Do it for yourself is my mantra. ;)
Don't give in to please others. Do it because YOU wish it. Or you may end up regretting caving in to another. Having family excited about the new member is one thing, putting demands on another person to suit themselves is selfish. Hang in there. Either way, you can't please everybody.
This line made me laugh, hard.
Quote from: HappyDays09 on December 18, 2010, 08:38:38 AM
My private parts are going to remain that way.
MrsKitty, there is no need to be sorry! I really only brought it up to highlight that I handle crisis situations very, very privately. I needed those miscarriages; I didn't want kids before then. They made me never take my DD for granted when she did finally get here. Plus, if I didn't have them, she wouldn't be here. I would have lived those Angel Babies the same, but they would be different than her. At the moment, something different than her is unimaginable.
Folic acid was my problem...VERY easy fix! There are many other women who haven't a doctor who cares enough to do some research, and others who have an unfixable problem. I appreciate their plight so much more now and I have come to meet some very strong women through all of this. Somehow, the pain grew to be worth it. Weird.
I just came back from Austin, and this is what I walk into:
Quote from: luise.volta on December 17, 2010, 07:15:51 PM
I can't get this at all. People in the delivery room? Grunting, sweating, groaning
Luise.. sweetie, I know you're 83 and memory might not be quite as sharp as you thought at times.. but your description was 'before' the delivery room. Once in the delivery room it was screaming, glaring, threatening... just thought I'd help you out :)
;D ;D ;D I had my first in the hospital I graduated from as an R.N. and my friend was the delivery nurse. She said "Oh, you are crowning...I can it's head (he was still an "it") and I said "i don't care if it's a set of dishes...I jst want to get rid of it!"
I'm sure glad a crowd of smiling relatives weren't standing around for that one!! ;D ;D ;D
I personally wanted no one there for the birth of my children but my husband. To me having a baby was a private event and thankfully my dh felt the same way. When there were problems it was a relief that I did not have others making suggestions and giving unsolicited advice. We as new parents were able to weigh the information being presented and make sound decisions. Had I not been able to participate in the decisions, then my dh knew that his mother or mine was only a phone call away. When I had my second baby, I was very grateful that grandma was willing to watch my first born, but again I asked that no one be at the hospital with us. I just feel that there are certain times in my life where I prefer privacy.. my wedding, child birth, and I hope my death will be private as well.
Quote from: Laurie on December 18, 2010, 07:10:05 PM
I just came back from Austin, and this is what I walk into:
Quote from: luise.volta on December 17, 2010, 07:15:51 PM
I can't get this at all. People in the delivery room? Grunting, sweating, groaning
Luise.. sweetie, I know you're 83 and memory might not be quite as sharp as you thought at times.. but your description was 'before' the delivery room. Once in the delivery room it was screaming, glaring, threatening... just thought I'd help you out :)
rofl I get it. wink wink.
Well...it sure wasn't anything I would have wanted an audience for...I remember that! :o
Me too. For either. The before...the during...or the after. ;)
I didn't want anyone in the delivery room either, except me and DH. But I had about 20 people "camped" out in the waiting room....Lol. Between my family, my friends, his family and his friends...we had a crowd waiting. I was in labor for 36 hours with the first (stupid me choose natural birth).
I could have cared less who all was waiting. It was their choice to wait and I didn't feel pressured to hurry. They were on their own to wait it out. They all did and after we had a chance to hold and love on our first Son, we had the grandparents come in to hold him. The friends and extended family simply went down and ogled through the nursery window.
If something had happened to me or the baby, I was glad there was a support system there for DH. When my Mom or Dad, or my now DH's Mom or siblings have surgery, we wait in the waiting room. Guess it's just always been that way and I have never given it a thought. It's just what we do to show we care and no one complains. It's a give and take. We show up and are there for support....from the waiting room.
And I loved Creme's post. It doesn't mean our way is right....it doesn't mean our way is wrong...it's just how we do it and no one minds. Other people mind, then that's their right to do it their way. But, I think what is lost that older generations had more of, was compromise. Today, there seems to be more of a "it's my way or the highway" mentality. For me, what was it hurting if 200 people are sitting in the waiting room? They respected my wishes of not being in the birthing room, they were not intrusive and waited because they wanted to. I think it has to be a two way street of compromise. They respected my private time, I respected that they wanted to be there. And I was very proud to hand my Son to my Mother, Father, MIL and FIL afterwards and say, "Meet your GS". Did I even like my MIL? Heck NO! But I was still proud to hand her, her first GS.
And Glitter, I think it's a great discussion. It truly shows everyone's different takes on situations. This is only my take, and you have yours, Creme has hers, Luise HappyDays, everyone else has their opinions. No one is wrong, no one is right.
Everyone does have their own take on any given situation. Maybe it's because I'm not comfortable being in crowds and never ever comfortable being the center of attention. For that reason my wedding consisted of the necessary people. The preacher looked at us and asked if we were waiting for any guest to arrive and I said no, it's just us. Dh chimed in with "let get this over with"..ok he was pushing it a little. I guess we cut down on the stress and family bargaining by simply not putting the options out there ahead of time. Maybe we were being a little selfish, but one thing is for sure .... we got on with our honeymoon faster then the average couple.
Ha ha...I went home after our wedding with a Son, Granddaughter and Stepdaughter! Honeymoon had to wait until the next weekend....
such diversity. I think that is what we are talking about here to some extent. When I was working at UC Berkeley they did alto of work around 'diversity' Diversity potlucks, etc. Same thing with weddings, births, grandparenting, parenting. but if no one minds, I wanted to go back briefly to the issue of photographs and gc. I have a friend who sent out a card to some of her friends that was a photo of her and her grandchild as a birth announcement. Its was pretty cute, but had never seen that before. I'm wondering what is so offensive
about this? (again, I get it that not everyone would be offended) also, as a photographer I can imagine sending out an xmas card with various photos including a grandchild in one of them. I don't get the problem with that that some DIL's mentioned. Holliberry, you mentioned something about this. I think you were saying that before you could send out a xmas card with your child on it your MIL sent one out to the same people that you would have sent it to and then deprived you of the opportunity. I can see how disappointing that would be, but what would be the problem if she sent it to her friends? A friend of mine who is also a photographer sent out a xmas card a couple of yrs ago with lots of different family photos on it including her gc. The key seems to be to communicate with the parents to double check just in case.
QuoteTara Wrote:
I have a friend who sent out a card to some of her friends that was a photo of her and her grandchild as a birth announcement. Its was pretty cute, but had never seen that before. I'm wondering what is so offensive
about this? (again, I get it that not everyone would be offended) also, as a photographer I can imagine sending out an xmas card with various photos including a grandchild in one of them. I don't get the problem with that that some DIL's mentioned.
But Tara, and I promise you, I'm not trying to insult you or be contrary in any way, but this right here, is a very good example....
OK, you say, you don't get what the problem is that some DIL's mentioned, well, that right there is the problem, you don't understand why they feel the way they do, you think they are maybe wrong or foolish b/c it's not what you believe...however, it is what they believe and it's not wrong for them to believe that way, just as it's not wrong for you to believe the way you do....and this is the one thing, if I can get across to anyone here, it will make one great big difference in they're relationships....For instance...I all my life, have been a very early riser, why? Because I had to get up to feed my horses....do the chores, and then off to school....and it's now my schedule....however, to a person who sleeps in late, they say, "your up at what time in the morning?" like I'm some weirdo....now I don't know if you've ever had this happen to you...but they talk about me at work....they think it's awful weird.....however, it's not weird to me....when I was a kid, I worked at a bakery, had to be there at 3 a.m. in the morning....then it was off to swimming practice...after 7 a.m., so, now, it's my schedule, being up at 4 a.m. and I love it, it's so quiet, everyone's still sleeping and I have the whole world and development to me and my dog...and I love that time of day, early morning and watching the sun rise....but do you see my point...if only we could allow other's they're own cultures, without taking offense, there would be a lot more relationships that were workable....
It's like I always say, your not wrong for your feelings, but neither am I....
or
just because you feel one way and I feel another, doesn't make you right and me wrong, or me right and you wrong, it is simply how we are....
I don't understand for the life of me, why this concept is so difficult to understand....allowance...to allow people they're feelings, to live they're lives, even if it contradicts ours (within reason, like me getting up at 4 in the morning) what is our society becoming that we are forgetting everyone else's views but our own, and I'm not meaning you Tara...but all of us....
You see people in the work place standing around talking about someone, b/c they are living they're lives to they're own standards....but because those other people who are gossiping do not live like that, they are talking about the other person who is? How shallow is that?
I am a loner, and I don't always mingle with people...I love, love love to go off on my breaks by myself and enjoy the peace and quiet and not think about anything....however, b/c I choose sometimes to do that, some take offense....some really feel like I think I'm to good for them, or I've heard someone say, "She isn't into company politics" and I'm not, not in the least, and I dislike hearing about stuff like that on my breaks, however, b/c I'm not going along with the majority of the culture, I'm labeled? Why? Why can't I be who I am? Why do I have to live up to everyone else's expectations of who I should be and how I should utillize my breaks?
Same thing with our family and friends....next time you catch yourself, saying, ewwwww about a family or friend who does something totally different then your life style, think about it....
Isn't if funny how society will stand around and talk about the one person that isn't there? We take life much to seriously and expect people to live up to our expectations of what we think life should be....
I can't do that....
When I went off for Christmas vacations to the islands, you should have heard people...gosh, that was an awful thing to do...and how could I do that?
Yanno, I have wonderful memories and mind photographs, that will go with me when my time comes...I'm going to live my life to the fullest, and be who I always wanted to be...and the reason why I'm not married...b/c I get to choose, and I don't have to look for anyone's approval...to be happy.
Tara, this was a great subject for discussion, thank you
Tara.. the chances of overlapping friends is quite different then overlapping relatives. I took it that Holliberri was heartbroken because she really owned the right to send an announcement and picture to the extended family. I remember my child's first picture, and how proud I was to share it with my family. Since this is someone else's child, it might be wise to ask before printing... such a small step will leave so many bridges undamaged.
Quote from: HappyDays09 on December 19, 2010, 10:18:00 AM
Me too. For either. The before...the during...or the after. ;)
Hey there chickie...so so good to see you....
Hey Creme and Laurie,
Because I say I don't understand or get something doesn't mean I think someone is wrong or foolish. It means I would like to understand. I do get that there is alot of 'diversity' about how people like to do things and generally am accepting of this but possession of images of children is a new concept to me I'd like to know more about.
Also, understand and have compassion for Holliberrys disappointment. What I didn't get was someone saying that gp should never send a photo out of their child. Yes, people have a right to their way of doing things, but since photography an important part of my life, I was simply curious about their thinking about this. comprehende?
but Creme, a point well about honoring our differences
Hi there....
Tara, remember, in our days growing up, our worlds were a lot smaller, today, this world thru technology is a whole lot bigger, and people have access to much information over the internet, most people are good, and others are very sick people who would do harm to others.....
Young mothers today, don't let they're kids out to run around the neighbor hoods like we did growning up....I grew up in a very small town and all the parents watched out for everyone's kids. Back then if a neighbor yelled at your kid, you thanked them and you yelled at them to....nothing was like it is today....
We had a wonderful childhood, playing hide and seek in the neighborhood till much after dark...and we were never harmed....
However, today, the world is much different....you have all kinds of people moving in and over crowding, and it seems the days we knew are gone....there are a lot of fears facing young mothers today, as, with movies, the news, and TV in general, we have privy to a lot of depressing stuff going on out there...and many girls I work with tell me, that when they hear stroeids they're mothers tell about growing up like that, they know that they could never feel safe allowing they're kids outside like that unsupervised....and its true..so, I'm gathering that the photograph thing is a fear, b/c some mothers do not want they're kids pictures all over....and I'm just guessing, maybe I'm wrong?
So when there's a family gathering and group snapshots are taken we can expect to see blurred out faces or black rectangles over the eyes of the little ones on FB or in scrapbooks, LOL. Should make for interesting scrapbooking/genealogical research in the future! "And here's your uncle Pete, uh aunt Julie, or is it cousin Betty? Uncle Devon? Oh well, it's someone you're related to when we all got together for great-gran's 100th birthday. Interesting, huh?"
LOL Pen... I'm envisioning that right now. Tara, I thought you were talking about birth announcements and first pictures etc.
Good thought about safety.
Even when my son was young (he is now 46) I didn't worry about him being harmed by someone.
Things have changed alot. I can see that it would be scary to raise children in these times.
Pen I can appreciate your cynicism.
Maybe we should have workshops at hospitals and medical centers for grandparents like they do for parents educating us about
the issues and concerns of the younger family generations ;- ) .
When I was working at UC Berkeley each year they sent out statistics about the incoming generation of students like
the ones in the New Yorker and I recall that the incoming generation one year was said to have never known a time
when there wasn't internet. I found that very interesting. We need to know about the concerns about the younger
generation and where do we learn if no one educates us or our family members don't dialogue about it?
I've learned alot here in the short time I've been a member. grateful for that truely
Ok, I am finding that I am guilty of alot of things we have been talking about lately. Tara, I wouldn't dream of sending out birth announcements of a grandchild without the parent asking me, but if we are talking about pictures of myself and GD that I gave to my family members or posted as the background on my computer at work....guilty.
I also posted pictures of myself, DH, Son's, GGP, etc. on facebook of them with my GC....guilty. But I also have pictures of all kinds of events on there that doesn't include her....so I never really thought about it.
I too thought we were talking about birth announcements.
Well, re: birth announcements - I can't imagine a gp sending them out instead of the parents doing so but that is IMHO. On the other hand as I mentioned a friend sent out a card with a photo of herself and her grandbaby, it was definitely an announcement but I assume it was only to her friends. One of those shutterfly.com cards. It was cute.
Other than that I was talking about how people send out xmas cards with lots of family photos on it
Regarding Christmas Cards, etc., then....I have done it and I have received many of them over the years. I honestly never thought about it being offensive to the parents. I remember running into people at the mall that I hadn't seen in a while and them saying that my Mother had shown them pictures of my boys. I guess I only ever figured that she was proud of them.
Quote from: Pooh on January 20, 2011, 09:53:03 AM
Regarding Christmas Cards, etc., then....I have done it and I have received many of them over the years. I honestly never thought about it being offensive to the parents. I remember running into people at the mall that I hadn't seen in a while and them saying that my Mother had shown them pictures of my boys. I guess I only ever figured that she was proud of them.
your right to feel that way Pooh, I do the same thing with My GD, plus, as you, I'm very proud of her, my DIL and son...however, I guess there are mother's who don't feel the same way....and I think that's ok to...matter of fact, I posted pictures of my GD, I have to remember to ask DIL how she feels about it...I just assumed that she wouldn't mind, however, maybe she does....and that's ok to....but next time we talk, I'm going to make it a point to ask her. I don't want to upset her or make her feel fear or unhappy....
If I'm not mistaken, Holliberri was referring to her child's first Christmas, this was how she was reintroducing her child since the birth announcements.. and whether it was her mother or mil, they stole her thunder. Holliberri had the right to be disappointed as this person used in part the same mailing list as Holli was going to use. Had the mom/mil put herself into Holli's shoes she may have chosen a different path.
While it is possible, I doubt that a mother would be upset with a mom or mil sending a picture to friends.. even posting on fb would probably not upset anyone as long as no personal information was given out. I know I'm repeating myself, but there is a fb scam going on and they are gathering their information from the pictures and information that is being posted and updated. I proved this to my sister who was shocked to see how photos and slight descriptions of her grandkids could and did trace them back to their hometown in Texas.. and I know nothing when it comes to really searching for individuals using the internet.
I totally believe that Laurie. We are dealing with tons of calls on fraud daily here it seems, from people getting personal information on people. I think technology has made it so much easier than it used to be.
I am with you. I took her post to mean the same thing about the Christmas card. And I would be upset too about it.
Yes, I've heard about these child predators too.
I hope I didn't seem to indicate a lack of appreciation or caring and re: Holliberrys concern. I did understand her disappointment
re: not being able to be the one to send out the photos of her child at christmas. I was trying to say I did understand that.
I always appreciate hearing her perspective.
I agree that there are 2 aspects here:
1 - The parents really should give permission for the distribution of photos of their kids. You can show pictures that are given to you, but handing out pictures is a different matter. Some people are really private.
2 - The safety aspect. You should never-ever post pictures of kids online without their parents permission. Not even group shots with 'strange' kids in the background. There are just too many creepy people out there. I have a Flickr account, which is a public photo sharing website that I use to keep our out-of-town family in the loop with what's going on in our lives. I can see which of my pictures have been viewed and what they're searching for, so I have to be VERY careful what I post on there. Because if I post something with a title of "bathing suit" it gets 10 times the hits of anything else. I posted a picture of my niece (with permission) as the first person in "the lake" one year, wearing a wet suit. Well, you don't want to know how many hits I got off of "wet suit". And if you search for "wet suit", WATCH OUT. No one wants a picture of their kid in some pedophiles computer.
The thing is, it's just a question of asking permission. Some will say yes, some will say no, everyone will appreciate being asked.
Tara,
Just to clarify, I was talking about Christmas photos/birth announcements. My plan was, had I been asked, to pay for extra photos so MIL could send them to her friends as well. It just didn't work out that way. It turns out MIL was worried that I wouldn't send them out (um, ask me?!), so she decided to take care of it. But, I only get to send out photos of my babies for a few precious years; after that I'm done doing it. Oh well.
I am actually 100% okay with my MIL and mom posting photos of DD on Facebook, because I do it, and I get to see the photos they post :D. I know terrible things can happen to the photos, but I can't control everything.
But, I know that there is an aversion to posting things like that on Facebook. I got in trouble with a friend for posting photos of her and she was on Facebook. I really should've respected that. I think it is just one of those things that you have to ask.
As for showing people photos, or sending a friend one? Nah.
BTW, I really could tell you were just asking me about what I was saying. I appreciate that. :D
Quote from: holliberri on January 20, 2011, 12:55:05 PM
BTW, I really could tell you were just asking me about what I was saying. I appreciate that. :D
Yeah but Holli.. you weren't here and we were bored.. we all had our morning coffee and were rearing to put our mouths and fingers into gear.. so we started the party without you :) It's 3 in the afternoon and you are just showing up... party to much last night???
I do have to work sometimes! Haha. To be honest, DH thinks I spend too much time with you all. I told him it is just b/c he is no fun. :P Oh well, I think he spends too much time on Fantasy Football.
I'm spending a lot of time on here today because I don't want to vacuum.. but now I have to or I'll be upset with myself later on.. I was playing with my son's pet rats earlier so that kept me entertained on this dreary Texas day.. they are so funny eating marshmallows, unlike a hamsters they don't have pouches, so they try to hold them all the little puffy things in their hands and against their chest.. oh god I'm having fun with rats.. geez.. I'm going to go vacuum now.
8) 8)
Thanks Holliberry and Laurie, You make me laugh so often!
Laurie, what is this "vacuuming" of which you speak?
If sounds foreign coming from my mouth... you will never hear me say.. wow that looks like great fun. But for the first time today I did get my heart rate up :)
Pen, I didn't know either so I googled it. It says "vacuuming" is 1. a space entirely devoid of matter.
So she must have moved everything out of the room...
Quote from: Pooh on January 21, 2011, 09:24:32 AM
Pen, I didn't know either so I googled it. It says "vacuuming" is 1. a space entirely devoid of matter.
So she must have moved everything out of the room...
Exactly. And that's what a vacuum cleaner is for ... cleaning vacuums.
So that's what happened
(http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/LaurieSS/vacuumed.jpg)
Vacuuming is when you're resting and not thinking. 8)
Luise, how zen, I love it.
Hey WW the grandgirls were born day before yesterday - health and very cute!
My friend was here today and said they take after their grandma ;- )
:D :D :DCONGRATULATIONS!!
Tara, I'll bet they're adorable. Congratulations!
They arrived a little early didn't they? Glad to hear they are both healthy.. how is the mom doing? How is the grandma doing? :)
Congrats, Tara!! Very exciting! Hope everyone is doing well!
Thanks everyone,
Mom is doing as well as expected I guess given she had a C-section.
Grandma is good and DS seems the happiest I've seen him in a long time.
Congratulations Tara, how wonderful, two little baby girls to love. I bet you are on cloud 9.
Thanks Jill,
with all our family complications I'm not on cloud 9 yet, but am very happy. The girls are so pretty
and they are healthy and that is a true blessing.
I notice that most of us don't spend much time on Cloud 9. I wonder sometimes if it vaporized. Sending love to all...
We just bought a mattress pad that guaranteed we'd feel like we'd been "sleeping on a cloud." Not so much.
We could start the "Cloud 9 Mattress Company"...but we'd probably get sued! ;)
Glitter--all I can say is that if my MIL or GMIL comes within 100 yards of me in delivery, they will not walk out of that hospital. Period.
They have done far too many nasty, mean, underhanded, snide, evil, and vile things to me to ever warrant seeing my and my husband's children. Yes, yes, I know people will hate me for that one. Remember, people, there are some idiots in the world that should never be allowed to be near children. That is why we have a national sex offender registry and why nearly every state requires violent offenders to let you know they're moving in. My MIL is mentally ill and her own son (my husband) has cut her off from our marriage entirely--after she threatened to do anything she could to get us divorced and offered to hire a divorce lawyer for him. He has told her that she will never see her grandchildren, not me.
I do NOT believe that grandparents have any inherent rights when it comes to children. Children are, if you must look at it this way, "belongings" of their parents. No, their parents don't own them, but they are responsible for them. MILs had their chance to raise kids and if she has done something to flick your kid and his spouse off, then she loses the privileges of seeing her grandkids. Plain and simple. Yes, it may suck. And yes, she may feel bitter and hurt and alot of MILs whine and complain about "never even being mean to her" or some other nonsense. The truth is, DILs rarely want to "keep" their kids from their childrens' grandparents, but they feel they must do so to protect their children because of the awful, alienating, insulting, undermining, etc. influences of their MIL. Sometimes, a DIL has been through so much from her perspective, that she feels like her MIL doesn't deserve to see her children--and from where I sit, she has every right to think that. In many cases, as a MIL, she have probably done something to make her DIL look bad to other family members, if you are truly honest with yourself, or has done things that she knows her DIL won't like, approve of, etc. Think about it--if someone messed with you like that--constantly undermined you or said nasty things to/about would you let that person near your child? Not likely.
Just as my DH cannot be forced to allow his children time with a violent criminal, a believer of a different religion, a babysitter, a person who he cannot stand, etc...nobody can force him to make his kids spend any iota of time with his sorry excuse for a mother. That's reality. Unless a grandparent helped raise a child (and by that I mean was awarded custody by the state when a parent was unable to care for the child) then there is no call for so-called "Grandparents Rights" just because a grown adult is miffed because they aren't getting what they want. My MIL and GMIL will freak out when we have children. They will whine, complain, lie, spread rumors, and buy lots of "gifts" that they will use to try to control their son and his behavior (as in, "but, I bought you that nice XYZ--see how much I love you?"). They did this when we got engaged, when we got married, when we bought a house--and he says they have been doing it his whole life--in attempts to control what we did. (We actually gave them both back the money they gave us toward our wedding because we didn't need their added "help".) They will be upset that we didn't tell them first, since they feel entitled to it as, in their eyes, their scumbag family (and really, they are scumbags--uneducated welfare rats who have been milking the system for YEARS) is better than anybody they know. They will be p*ssed when we don't send them pictures of the whole pregnancy. They will try to come into our room during labor and delivery--and will lie, cheat, and threaten to do so. As my husband has said many times: "there's a reason my mother has problems as a MIL--and it's not her DIL".
So, Glitter, I think it's up to the couple--the PARENTS of the child. If they say "No, we would rather you not come", then don't show up at the hospital waiting to get in to see "your" baby. Don't do what I've seen alot of overly-attached MILs do and send out the birth announcements "to help them". Don't spread the news and rob the couple of their joy. Remember that as excited as a MIL may be that her son is going to be a dad--it doesn't give her any human right to rob the MOTHER of her joy as a new mom. The MIL got that once...now it's time to let someone else be happy. These make the MIL look bitter, angry, selfish, and shallow. They don't "help" unless the couple says that it will. It only robs the new parents of joy.
Babies make people go a little nutty, me thinks. Not just the expecting couple. I remember my sister just automatically assumed she'd be in the delivery room with me and was pretty hurt that I didn't let her.
I guess I think it's one thing if grandparents are overexcited but another if it's a pattern of entitled behavior. Weddings, babies and all that stuff has caused even the most normal people I know to get a little out there.
So sure, parents call. They evaluate and make the decisions.
Quote from: pam1 on February 01, 2011, 02:57:44 PM
Babies make people go a little nutty, me thinks.
Amazing how something so precious, can stir so many emotions in people. I plan on being a good grandmother .. just so you all know :)
Just as long you remember that you don't wash babies in vinegar! ;D
actually Pooh now that you mentioned it ... :) No but what I did find out when mine were little.. if you don't pry open their hands they can almost grow things in the creases. I guess my oldest always had that little man fist thing and I never thought to open his hand.. but my best friend was the head of infection control for the hospital told me to wash him in dial deodorant soap and to wash his scalp with head and shoulders... but thinking about it.. a little vinegar would probably have balanced the ph level better and help prevent cradle cap.
Pam...
I absolutely thought I was entitled to name my first niece.
I'm going to hang my head in shame now.
When did they stop washing babies in vinegar?
In some cultures family/community members other than the parents get the honor of naming the child. It's a way of bonding the child emotionally, physically and spiritually to the "tribe" because there is protection, safety and well-being in numbers. Sort of like western traditions regarding god parents, I suppose.
We've lost that sense of needing a community to love, support and nurture our children. I didn't want to hand my babies over to the tribe shaman for naming, or to let them roam around to get nourishment from other moms, but I loved living in a small town and knowing everyone from school administrators to church ladies to clerks at the store were looking out for my kids.
Quote from: ladyfirstdilsecond on February 01, 2011, 01:20:14 PM
Remember, people, there are some idiots in the world that should never be allowed to be near children. That is why we have a national sex offender registry and why nearly every state requires violent offenders to let you know they're moving in. My MIL is mentally ill and her own son (my husband) has cut her off from our marriage entirely-
I'm not following the connection here.. is your MIL a child molester, a sex offender, or even a violent offender? I don't think MIL's are put on a mandatory state list for not wanting their son's to marry a certain person.
Quote from: Laurie on February 01, 2011, 07:03:47 PM
Quote from: ladyfirstdilsecond on February 01, 2011, 01:20:14 PM
Remember, people, there are some idiots in the world that should never be allowed to be near children. That is why we have a national sex offender registry and why nearly every state requires violent offenders to let you know they're moving in. My MIL is mentally ill and her own son (my husband) has cut her off from our marriage entirely-
I'm not following the connection here.. is your MIL a child molester, a sex offender, or even a violent offender? I don't think MIL's are put on a mandatory state list for not wanting their son's to marry a certain person.
Uh....where did you get this from!? I thought it disappeared into e-space.
Nevermind, I thought it was from the other gem of a post. I forgot about this one after reading that one.
scroll back up to Ladyfirstdilsecond's posting http://www.wisewomenunite.com/index.php/topic,1242.msg28380.html#msg28380
Quote from: Pen on February 01, 2011, 06:51:48 PM
In some cultures family/community members other than the parents get the honor of naming the child. It's a way of bonding the child emotionally, physically and spiritually to the "tribe" because there is protection, safety and well-being in numbers. Sort of like western traditions regarding god parents, I suppose.
We've lost that sense of needing a community to love, support and nurture our children. I didn't want to hand my babies over to the tribe shaman for naming, or to let them roam around to get nourishment from other moms, but I loved living in a small town and knowing everyone from school administrators to church ladies to clerks at the store were looking out for my kids.
Yeah, but in my culture, it's totally not knowing my place. I'm not sure what got a hold of me. I made a fuss about it, as I recall. I'm not even baby crazy; I just felt like I was entitled to something b/c this was my niece.
I live in a small town too, so I know the feeling of a safety net; it is nice. I drug DH back here to where everyone has been living here for 3 or 4 generations. There is such comfort in running into someone everywhere you go.
It should have gone to e-space...
<-------is gonna have to go register on the state list of MILs now....like I need ANOTHER password to keep up with....
WW does anyone know where the concept that grandparenting is a privilege came from? I know its been said on this forum
a fair amt and we had a whole discussion about our thoughts related to privilege vs basic expectation, but the idea/concept
had to come from some author or school of thought. Any ideas as to the original source?
I don't know. To me living is a privilege and everything that follows...like being brought up by parents, schooling, marrying, working and playing, parenting and grand parenting, retiring, volunteering. Life, to me, is a privilege. I'm serious.
My guess is, it has to do with Western culture and our idea of individualism. It probably also has a lot to do with industrialism, the reduction in the number of children people are having and people living further away from their parents.
Other cultures require a woman to marry into her husband's family and then she can expect to never see her family again; her MIL is the ultimate source of authority. Other cultures aren't so severe, but still require allegiance to parents, even after you've had your own children.
To a certain extent, I think it is is privilege. My life is no less full b/c I never met my maternal GM (she passed when my father was young). It certainly would've been a great privilege to have met her, but it's not something I consider myself entitled to. I think if I regarded it as an entitlement that I was denied, having never met her would be a little harder to take.
I agree Luise, it sounds fatalistic, but after watching my friend (same age) pass away to cancer...if the past 7 years with DH are all I get, and the past 7 months with DD is all I get with her, I'm still incredibly fulfilled. I don't think I can ever ask for more.
I am with Luise. I think life is a privilege and all that goes along with it. Like Holli said, I think it is just what you are used to. I had the opposite, very involved grandparents, and they enriched my life and I can't imagine not having grown up without them, because that is just how my life turned out and part of my past. But I didn't know my other grandparents, and I don't feel any less fulfilled because of that.
I think it is just an expectation of how you perceive a family, based on your own experiences. To me, it's like everything else. I played sports and felt that the lessons I learned because of being in sports was valuable and encouraged my Sons to play them. But my DH now, never played sports and didn't encourage his Daughter to play them, as he was fulfilled without them. Hard for me to understand not playing sports, and hard for him to understand playing them, just because we both have different experiences. Doesn't make either of us right or wrong.
I appreciate and concur with your view points. I didn't grow up with extended family as my sf and dm ran off to another state
and raised us and it was something we really missed out on. On the other hand my DM encouraged me to participate in youth groups and to this day 'community' is VIP to me. Its like that saying: friends are family you choose for yourself.
I 'm interested in the origin of the concept of 'privilege' as it keeps coming up, and did a few posts ago, that is if anyone knows.
blessings.
I'm participating in a group this year based on a book by Steven Levine called "A year to live", he did a tremendous amt of work in death and dying and I've taken trainings with him before, he is a buddhist poet. I think the idea is in general to make peace with
oneself to be prepared to die whenever it comes (to die in peace) . I have a little bowl that had 365 grains of rice in it and each day we take out one grain of rice to symbolize another day. So I have in the past and do now have gratitude for this day and this life
and know that it is a privledge to be healthy and well and have such a rich but simple life. Thanks for the interpretation Luise, also Pooh an Holliberry. I learn so much here.
There is a saying that once we have accepted out own death, we are free to live.
Tara, I'm thinking privilege came about as our (the US) legal system granted more rights and legal actions to children and parents. It probably set more in motion in the 70's/80's when laws were being written to coexist with current society. Divorce, unwed parents etc. And probably the womens movement have helped set some things in motion as well.
There is nothing a grandparent can legally do with their grandchildren (without permission from either parents or court, and court is very, very rare.) On the flip side, grandparents aren't legally responsible for their grandchildren either.
I know several GPs who are now taking full-time care of their GC due to various tragic circumstances (death, mental illness, prison, drugs, etc.) I guess we can keep GPs on the back burner until they're really needed and then take advantage of them.
Pen,
I think those instances only occur when a parent is mentally incapacitated and someone oblingingly stepped forward. At that point, the GP essentially becomes the parent. Aunts, Uncles and childhood friends have done the same thing.
And, if the parents of the child don't wish that to happen, it gets taken care of by a will and a listing of guardianship. We have listed our best friends as guardians b/c they are the same age as us, in overall good health and they also have children. In the meantime, DH and I hope that the unthinkable never happens.
Quote from: Pen on February 02, 2011, 03:32:06 PM
I know several GPs who are now taking full-time care of their GC due to various tragic circumstances (death, mental illness, prison, drugs, etc.) I guess we can keep GPs on the back burner until they're really needed and then take advantage of them.
I don't think it works like that. No one can force grandparents to take custody or guardianship in those instances, they volunteer or petition the court for it. That's not taking advantage in my book. However, the parents are still responsible for child support. The grandparents can chose not to pursue that route, but they have the option. They also have many federal and state programs for children with those types of parents. Sometimes that motivates people to pursue custody of the children in question as well.
I can't remember off the top of my head, but the last census has grandparent custody/guardianship at somewhere around 3-4% in the US. And vast majority are very poor.
I think Pen was speaking of grandparents who willingly took on the children because of extenuating circumstances that prevented the parent from being able to continue as legal guardian. I feel that she was saying that so many grandparents are put on the back burner.. given crumbs and then once needed then they are asked or expected by the child's parent to step up and become the caretaker.
Yes, I know. But statistically it doesn't seem to be happening too often. And in those cases the grandparents do have a choice, IMO that's not being taken advantage of. They chose to take on the responsibility. I get that this issue is sensitive to a lot of us here but I don't think we should be generalizing. It's just not happening like that in the US.
It's not like we are having an epidemic of otherwise stable, healthy adults shoving their children on grandparents b/c they just don't want to parent anymore. If anything is comparably close to that in our society, it's the deadbeat dads. But that's a different topic for the singe momma's.
Interesting discussion, I just googled statistics of children living with grandparents
and according to the NY Times and the 2010 census
6.5% of children in this country are living with their grandparents. The census and reports of 2010 says it is more common
amongst hispanic and black families but due to the economy/recession it is increasingly common among white families.
Also many are poor:
For the most part, grandparent caregivers have very limited financial resources. Nearly one-in-five (18%) are living below the poverty line,7 while 47% have household incomes that fall between one- and three-times the poverty line. In comparison, among the population ages 50 and older, 8% are below the poverty line, and 32% are living on an income that is between one- and three-times the poverty rate.
I think the 6.5% includes the 3 generations living together. I could be mistaken, it's been awhile since I've looked at the stats but I'm pretty sure the census (and most articles) are a little unclear on this. The actual split generation (grandparent/grandchild custody with parent not living there) is lower. And then there are also discrepancies about just how clear the stat is b/c in order to receive child benefits a lot of the time the parent is listed as not living with the child, but they actually are. Part of the welfare scams.
It is an interesting discussion, I do some work occasionally with child custody and get a little passionate.
Pam, you're right statistically there is probably a small percentage of grandparents raising their grandchildren. But the uncharted number of parents who feel ignored, unwanted, and undervalued, until their children want or need something is probably staggering. Are the parents being taken advantage of or have children been taught throughout their lives by the parents to put themselves first, it's hard to say.
I notice when my dd was around 16 she was thrilled to go out shopping for the day.. she was wonderful fun and witty while we where picking out outfits and accessories. But as soon as I said ok I want to look over here at something for myself, she would suddenly have important homework that required her attention or any other excuse she could come up with.. As long as it was all about her she was fine. I let this happen a couple of times to make sure that I was seeing things clearly and not possibly misunderstanding.
It ended up clearly a case of me teaching/enabling this behavior by not stopping it sooner. I had to wonder how many times I allowed her to pull this type of stunt without even realizing what was taking place. It was obvious that my dd wasn't even fully aware of her behavior until we sat and talked about it. So I guess in my reasoning, sometimes we are handed 'crumbs' because we accepted them in the past without fully understanding what was transpiring at the time.
Quote from: Tara on February 02, 2011, 05:59:42 PM
Interesting discussion, I just googled statistics of children living with grandparents
and according to the NY Times and the 2010 census
6.5% of children in this country are living with their grandparents. The census and reports of 2010 says it is more common
amongst hispanic and black families but due to the economy/recession it is increasingly common among white families.
Does this statistic include families where grandparents, their children, and their grandchildren all live together, or only where grandparents have taken legal guardianship?
There is quite a bit of info including analysis on the internet as the census was redone last year.
and there is an increase in grandparenting due to the economy.
if you google "percent of children living with grandparents" and just "children living with
grandparents" you will get some up to date analysis including what Pam is discussing, there
is a break down, also if you look for the topic under ny times.
Quote from: Laurie on February 02, 2011, 04:24:34 PM
I think Pen was speaking of grandparents who willingly took on the children because of extenuating circumstances that prevented the parent from being able to continue as legal guardian. I feel that she was saying that so many grandparents are put on the back burner.. given crumbs and then once needed then they are asked or expected by the child's parent to step up and become the caretaker.
Yes, Laurie, that's exactly what I was saying. Very good! Thank you for your careful reading.
I dunno, Laurie. It probably depends on how healthy the family is. I really think though it's sort of a times are a changing type thing too. Grandparents aren't needed (no disrespect, just part of my point) in society. We don't depend on the multi generation system.
It does seem to be a big generalization though. I don't know of many people who use and abuse grandparents. I think most people try the best they can and deal with life as it comes.
To me it's kinda like saying something along the lines well, what about all those adult children who financially support their parents? Their parents just had them to get by later in life, hmph. The average american will spend something like 18 years caring for a parent. 40% of our population has more involvement with parent care than child care. It's not a little issue today. But it still doesn't make it right to generalize it.
I was following you Pen.. I think there is also a difference between who is doing the burner placement.. if it's your own child, then like the bad habit my daughter was falling into at one point may apply... If it's being done by a child's spouse then it's possibly done because you don't hold any value to them, until you are truly needed.
I think we are talking about two different things here Pam.. this part of the conversation is concerning grandparents, sons, daughters, who are aiding parents, kids, etc.
The conversation with Pen is talking about kids who don't feel that they need to give you the time of day until they are faced with some difficulty.
Quote from: Laurie on February 02, 2011, 06:34:45 PM
I think we are talking about two different things here Pam.. this part of the conversation is concerning grandparents, sons, daughters, who are aiding parents, kids, etc.
The conversation with Pen is talking about kids who don't feel that they need to give you the time of day until they are faced with some difficulty.
No, I got it. I was pointing out the generalization of it and doing it poorly lol.
I can sympathize with Pen.. I know how it feels to come in second at every turn. It's like our family, my son's brother and sister who both love him as much as I and his father do are constantly reminded that we are not important in my dil's life. I am not one for blaming dil's as I usually get along with people of different ages etc.. but after a dozen times it's no longer a oversight or a coincidence. Yet what strikes me as being somewhat comical is my dil as said on many occasions.. I know if we were to get into a financial bind, or need help with the house (manual labor) we know that we can count on you guys. I really had to wonder.. can she at this point?
I know the feeling too.
No, its not an oversight or a coincidence. People know what they are doing. I guess the hardest part for me has been accepting that my MIL and other in laws do know what they are doing and are doing it consciously. I think it was (and is sometimes) easy to say or generalize that it is all MIL's who are mean or controlling or whatever. But it's much harder to admit that no, it's just my family member with the problem with me :(
but see I don't think it's you.. and it's not me... it would have been any family that my dil married into. I try not to take it personally (although I know I do)... because I know that if she had married joe blow.. his family would have been #2 as well.
Oh I agree. It's not us and it's personal. It's such a hard concept for anyone to swallow. So it's just my opinion, that's when it becomes a generalization. People tend to look at generalizations of MIL's or DIL's as if that is the reason why. It's not, it's just one difficult person.
I know what the statistics are as far as census and such, but that is just the reported ones. Here, where I work, we currently have 4 people raising a grandchild/grandchildren. 3 of those, do not have any official court or lawyer documentation because their adult children basically were not taking care of the child/children due to drugs, alcohol, running around, etc. and the grandparents said they would take them until that person got back on their feet. They don't receive child support, and they do it because they want to give them a safe environment and hope someday that their child will straighten up. And that's not counting 2 more employees that have their siblings child, doing the same thing. It happens more than is legally reported.
And in every one of these cases, if the parent straightens out their life (And I hope they do), and takes the child/children back, they can then deny the GP or Siblings access to them if they choose. I think this is more what Pen was talking about. Using a GP or someone only as long as they need them.
Good point, Pooh. I had forgotten about my family members stepping up to the plate simply b/c they want to avoid going through the court systems. They do that for no money, and really, when it boils down to it, they don't have any legal responsibility. If the parent decides to step up, they can at any time.
I hadn't considered that aspect when Pen posted. My dad currently has my Aunt's back and is spending time raising her child. She did take her away from him for 6 weeks, and he was upset about it for awhile. She eventually came back, but he knew he didn't have any legal obligation or entitlement. He was hoping that even though they had disappeared, that her mom was taking care of her and doing the right thing.
Of course, when she moved back in, he too had to set up some boundaries. 1.) The next time you leave, it's the last. I'm not doing this anymore.
She must've believed him...that was over 2 years ago. It's the longest she's stayed in one spot.
Holli, I asked one of them here, whom I get along with very well and she offers to share her situation, how she could do that without any legal paperwork? In my head, I start thinking about insurance, school things, etc. that if you didn't have legal papers stating you could do all this, what would happen? She had her daughter sign her up at the school as a person that had say-so, and she has a note that she takes to the doctors that the daughter has signed saying she can seek treatment for the child. So I asked her why she didn't just go to court and get the legal documents and she said there were several reasons. Cost of doing that, plus the cost of having to go back if daughter straightened her life out and wanted her back. If they did it legally, then both her and her daughter would be at the mercy of child services for visits and such (not that she has anything to hide, just didn't want to fool with it), plus she didn't want anything on her daughters record about being an unfit mother. She says that her daughter is not capable with her addiction of taking care of the child, and keeps trying to get sober and willingly gave the child over to her because she recognizes she was not being a good mother. So in her eyes, she is an addict, not a bad mother because she did think of the child first.
She wants her to be able to get back with her child someday and allows her to come over to see her any time, with the rule she only comes when she is sober. She says when she is sober, she is a good person. She does it purely out of love for both her daughter and child, and she says that fortunately, she is financially able to do it.
I dunno, Laurie. It probably depends on how healthy the family is. I really think though it's sort of a times are a changing type thing too. Grandparents aren't needed (no disrespect, just part of my point) in society. We don't depend on the multi generation system".
Pam, I think its true we don't or can't depend on the multi generational system but thats not necessarily positive. In the past I was a social worker in an urban university and ran a 1 year support group for New Moms. The women experienced of course the joy of motherhood but a tremendous amt of stress working full time, commuting to and from work, raising a baby and being married. What I observed was that the one Mom in the group who had IL's locally seemed to fare better as they had respite and support and
once they even go to go away as a couple for the weekend.
Pooh, you are dead on right about the cost factor of doing things the legal way. And as you brought up you are also opening your self to the entire child service programs. I wonder what the statistics are of people making the under the table choices.
Changing the topic a little:
We all put up with goofy friends & co-workers, odd bosses, quirky neighbors, spacey relatives, etc. etc. Somehow we manage to deal with them often on a daily basis. Why can't GPs be given similar slack here by the DIL/SIL? Unless they are law-breakers or truly harmful in a criminal way, why can't parents suck it up for a couple of hours and let their kids see their GPs?
I can totally see my DIL coming up with really lame reasons to keep our (future, not impending) GC from us ("They live outside of town!" "They'd rather hike than go to the mall!" "They painted the den a weird color!") DS swears he won't let this happen, but......
How do parents justify denying their children a meaningful relationship with people who cherish them just because there are a couple of things about the GPs that are a little different? I'm speaking morally, not legally. Obviously parents can legally cut off anyone they choose.
Really thought provoking, Pen. I've kind of thought similar from a DIL point of view. I've wondered why my in laws can't treat me as if they would their friends with boundaries. (but then, MIL doesn't really have friends so maybe it's unknown territory) All I've ever been able to figure out is that they weren't going to do anything different from the start. If that makes sense, they were going to do and be how they want, everyone else be damned. It doesn't matter my boundaries, how I look, what gifts I give them -- I'm not the issue, I'm just the object.
I really think a lot of these people going into it never intending to have a relationship or be pleasant or take others needs into consideration. It's simply not important or even relevant in their minds.
All of those goofy people don't spend time with my child. I'm not sure that I put up with them at all.
The ILs have a problem with me working-good moms stay home; they start calling my DH a girl who wears dresses when he helps me clean up after dinner. (I have a huge problem with using girl as a derogatory term. especially around my DD). They wonder why DD isn't wearing pink (that's what girls do!), and why if she grabs a matchbox car instead of a doll, I'll let her have a go at playing with it. I think it's damaging b/c it's just not realistic in today's world, although not abusive.
MIL has tried very very hard to impose her religious views upon not only us, but DD, when she has been explicitly told that DH and I do not agree with her (DH converted me, not the other way around). She says she wants my DD to be a teen mom so she can have some great GKs (my DD is 7 months old, and why I don't have complete control over her--I'm doing my darndest at avoiding that outcome). Maybe it's b/c she refers to my DD as the daughter she never had. Two problems with that: 1.) I'm the mom; 2.) she has no relationship with DD yet...let it happen, don't force it.
Am I insecure? Absolutely. Am I a little scared of the pressure placed already on DD and she's only an infant? Yep. It's hard to let go of that. It's twice as hard when you can feel the pressure b/c someoene wants you to. It's triply hard when it's pretty clear that the ILs don't trust the decisions I make in regards to raising DD.
I know your relationship with your DS and DIL is awful, but I think you're setting yourself up for a really bad thought pattern by expecting that she's going to come up with lame excuses. You have more than enough to worry about with them at the moment, I'm not sure adding to it by worrying about things that haven't come to pass will help. I think it would only make it worse.
Holli, my relationship with my DS isn't awful, and my relationship with DIL is tentative at the moment. She's being polite, but is unable to commit to a visit or to give DS some free time to visit.
DIL has already given hints that her FOO will be primary GPs because she disapproves of us. She and her FOO have said they hate us. One reason is that we live out in the country and our cars are muddy during the rainy season. Is this really a reason to hate someone? Another reason is that we aren't as financially successful as DIL's FOO. Really? We're solid, not in debt, paid for DS's degree/living expenses.
I'm not talking about harmful, pushy, overbearing people, just slightly different people who are cut off from their GC "just because." And DIL has already told us that it's imminent. DS says not to worry, but she runs the show now and will likely do so when kids arrive.
You're right, Holli, I don't want to borrow trouble. But, I was blindsided by DIL right after the wedding and I guess I'm trying to protect myself regarding GC.
Sorry, I knew that, and I really meant to say "situation." I didn't catch that in my editing. That wasn't what I meant to imply.
When DIL told you that cutting you off was imminent, what did DS say to her then? I know he told you he won't let that happen, but did he say that to her, right then and there?
Pen:
Your DIL seems to forget where her DH came from .
Also .how can anyone have that power to cut off anyone's family ? Is she God ?
You are his family and always will be ,I hope he realises that .
LL,
As I think you know dil wrote me a hate letter and cut me off from her but not explicitly the gc but said it would be a privilege to see them and on her terms. DS has been laying low since the letter went out and hasn't called.
Holliberry, I would have trouble with my MIL saying those kinds of things. Its tough having such different values isn't it.
Tara,
I need to realize that those kinds of values obviously didn't wear off on my DH and just deal with it. It's probably even less likely they'll wear off on DD. I've also learned that when he's pushed, DH acts the same way I do--he digs his heels in further. I think this is common among most people. So if DD is as smart and confident as I hope to raise her and she's feeling pressured, she'll be stubborn enough to stand by her own values (I also realize they don't have to jive with mine--I'll love her anway!).
Come to think of it, although I'm not plastering nasty political references all over my Facebook, and I'm not sending mean e-mails to MIL...is it possible that this is what your DIL takes issue with--that your values don't blend well with hers?
I don't agree with her (well, I have a feeling I don't)...but do you think this is the crux of it? You seem unbelievably peaceful and no pressure to me...so I find it hard to believe that's the case, but is it possible?
Holliberry,
I do think a part of the reason Dil doesn't like me is that she doesn't like liberals and loves to slander them publically
online and she has a bit of a following. She didn't speak to me for 6mo to a yr after Obama was elected and she posted a
headline saying he was like Hitler. When I sent her a private email and said something like those are strong words, what is your thinking about this? she wrote back and said we don't talk politics and I am richeous in my politics (meaning herself) I left it at that, but then she wanted nothing to do with me, which she told me through ds. I didn't mind that much really as our values are so different. She's not all bad though. We have had some great conversations on occassion.
I've met people like that; they write you off for politics.
The good news is, if she's young...her politics are likely to change...while yours won't. ;)
I actually can't say that for sure, but one can hope. Even if it doesn't happen, she's likely to move away from posting/talking about all of that stuff.
My aunt said, "I see now that you have DD, you don't post stuff about literature anymore."
Sadly, I haven't read a book since I found out I was pregnant with DD, and if I did manage to read one, I don't think I'd have the energy/desire/focus to critique it. I've got more important, relatable stuff to write about, like lost sleep and recycled baby food jars. Not nearly as fascinating, but I have more of a following with that than I do when I quote Thoreau. Maybe she'll get there.
Oh Holliberry I do enjoy you.
Well my DIL isn't young. she's in her 40's. that means I'm really old
I think her politics won't change, but ya never know.
Maybe you will get back to literature when dd gets a little bit older.
I remember my dear friend cancelled all her magazine subscriptions when
her dtr was born. There are new areas though yes? I can related to recycled
baby food jars! I read alot of stuff like that only maybe more like dogs,
buddhism, metabolic syndrome, healthy cosmetics. its a big & interesting world out
there. By the way do you have curbside recycling pick up?
I have curbside recycled pick up! Better than most of the townships around here.
I'll read anything. ANYTHING. If it makes me uncomfortable, I read it twice. It either changes my mind, or helps me strengthen my own opinion. I miss it; I plan on reading Austen and Dostoyevsky to DD while she's young (in between Dr. Seuss and all).
Dogs? I read Cesar Milan's book last year. I'm sure he's 100% correct about fixing separation anxiety with dogs, I just wasn't very consistent at employing his tactics.
I also read a ton of James Herriott growing up. I stole his stories off my mom's shelf.
I saw the Dalai Lama in 2009 and I read a lot of his latest books since then.
Quote from: holliberri on February 03, 2011, 10:07:35 AM
Sorry, I knew that, and I really meant to say "situation." I didn't catch that in my editing. That wasn't what I meant to imply.
When DIL told you that cutting you off was imminent, what did DS say to her then? I know he told you he won't let that happen, but did he say that to her, right then and there?
DIL and I were in another room. DS never heard her say it.
A few weeks later DS came over, angry and hurt, and told us DIL & her FOO hated us and didn't want to be around us. He told us it was DIL's problem, not ours, but clearly he was upset. We told him his loyalty was to his wife and he had to work it out with her. I gently told him that they needed to work this out before they started a family and had to deal with grandparent issues. He got the point and said he'd never allow her to keep his children from us.
Quote from: Pen on February 03, 2011, 06:53:30 PM
DIL and I were in another room. DS never heard her say it.
So she threatened you?
That blows my mind. There aren't words.
Holli, I loved reading James Herriott, and I thought the BBC series was one of the few programs I'd ever seen that was true to the original book. Have you ever seen it? I also enjoy Jane Austen. I would like to tell you that your posts are wonderfully calm and thoughtful. Thank you.
Tara, I've been fascinated by the Dalai Lama and Tibet since I read Seven Years in Tibet many years before the Brad Pitt movie came out. I have a few Buddhist friends but am not as educated about Buddhism as I should be. BTW, I enjoy reading your posts so much; you are very interesting and have had lots of experiences I can only dream of.
Lately all I have time for are nonfiction, work-related books or books about DS's field or DIL's native land. I do want to know more about the things that interest them.
Quote from: holliberri on February 03, 2011, 07:00:03 PM
Quote from: Pen on February 03, 2011, 06:53:30 PM
DIL and I were in another room. DS never heard her say it.
So she threatened you?
That blows my mind. There aren't words.
Not so much a threat, since her dislike of us isn't due to anything we've done and might be able to change. It was more a declaration of the way it was going to be.
Quote from: Pen on February 03, 2011, 07:12:28 PM
Not so much a threat, since her dislike of us isn't due to anything we've done and might be able to change. It was more a declaration of the way it was going to be.
She sounds like a delight. Ugh. :(
I never even heard of the BBC series. I'm going to google it and see if I can't either download it or get it on Netflix. I'd love to watch it! Thanks for the tip!
**Edited b/c I am thrilled we found something in common! :D
Seven Years in Tibet the book = way better than Seven Years in Tibet the movie. My GM took me to see it after we read the book together.
Reading books about DIL's native land? I admire your effort. I really do.
Holli how lucky are you that your grandmother and you read 7 years in Tibet together and then saw the movie. She must be
an interesting person. Pen, I am a fan of the Dalai Lama myself. I got to go to a week of teachings with him in California a few
years ago and then being in Dharmarsala where he lives recently was quite lovely. Beautiful Himalaya mountains in the
background, etc. I took my sister to see him at the Universal Studios in Los Angeles also when he was teachings in LA.
He has a wicked sense of humor.
Pen, thanks for your kind words. I feel like I am really getting to know you and in some way share a common pain and growing strength. Love your humor, boundaries, wisdom.
Holli, lucky dd who has you to read to her and raise her to be strong and wise.
Ok, I thought I was intelligent, artistic and worldy before this thread, and now I realize that I can't hold a candle to you guys!
Seriously, I really enjoy reading all of your posts on literature, movies, travel and people you have seen. You are one classy group and I am getting a whole new world of information. Thank you very much.
Yes, he does have a wicked sense of humor. I'm trying to take DH to see him. I'd LOVE to go to the Himalayas. Wow!
Pooh...snake charming? Come on. If that's not wordly, I don't know what is...
That's not charming....that's stupidity!
LOL.
What is wrong with my typing today?
As a northerner, I was 22 before I was introduced to the beautfy of sweet tea. So there you go.
Quote from: Tara on February 03, 2011, 03:52:17 PM
Holliberry,
I do think a part of the reason Dil doesn't like me is that she doesn't like liberals and loves to slander them publically
online and she has a bit of a following. She didn't speak to me for 6mo to a yr after Obama was elected and she posted a
headline saying he was like Hitler. When I sent her a private email and said something like those are strong words, what is your thinking about this? she wrote back and said we don't talk politics and I am richeous in my politics (meaning herself) I left it at that, but then she wanted nothing to do with me, which she told me through ds. I didn't mind that much really as our values are so different. She's not all bad though. We have had some great conversations on occassion.
Tara, I share an office with a lot of people who think nothing of railing at me because my views are different than theirs. It creates a hostile work environment and I cringe when things are going on in the news knowing that I'll be hit with it when I get to work (I've started calling it "going full Rumplestilskin" 'cos this one co-worker hops up and down when he yells.) As much as I try not to engage, their rage is unrelenting and I often fear they will become vindictive. I feel your pain, I can't imagine having to deal with this in my own family.
Re: the Dalai Lama, a friend who has met him says the same thing - His Holiness is extremely intelligent and sharp, very quick-witted and humorous. I would love to see him in person.
Pen, my sister has had to work in a hostile work environment for a period as a police officer in a particular department. It was quite hard on her. She's glad to be out of there. re: dil. It is painful to have a family member who hates and takes pleasure in ridiculing and condemning people with my view. I was a 're-entry woman in the 70's and studied sociology in undergrad work and gradually
my view of people and the world became quite compassionate. I didn't grow up that way.
It was so wonderful to visit Dharmarsala where the Dalai Lama lives. Its beautiful there and the town is filled with Tibetan refugees.
He (DL) often says "I'm a humble monk" and when I went to his temple and the grounds where he lives I was surprised as it really
is true. simple, lovely and smallish temple, simple grounds. He had a cold the week I was there and was getting ready to go to
New Deli for a dialogue with specialists around the world for what was called "Delhi Dialogues" to talk about how to deal with poverty, so I didn't get to see him then. One of the women who was there for the DD stayed at my hotel in Dharmarsala. I could look right out my hotel window and see his place through the prayer flags. It was a rich experience. I would highly recommend it if you ever get a chance.
I don't know if anyone is familiar with the Karmapa, I did have teachings with him and a small group of us had a private meeting with him as well as Mingyur Rinpoche who write the book: "The Joy of Living".
It was the trip of a life time. I have had other fine trips, but this is the only pilgrimage.
Quote from: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 08:09:29 AM
Ok, I thought I was intelligent, artistic and worldy before this thread, and now I realize that I can't hold a candle to you guys!
Seriously, I really enjoy reading all of your posts on literature, movies, travel and people you have seen. You are one classy group and I am getting a whole new world of information. Thank you very much.
I know what you mean Pooh.. I thought I was doing good reading When Parents Hurt.. any my only association with the Dalai Lama came in the form of Beatles lyrics.
You name it and we've got it! :)
Quote from: Laurie on February 04, 2011, 03:47:52 PM
Quote from: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 08:09:29 AM
Ok, I thought I was intelligent, artistic and worldy before this thread, and now I realize that I can't hold a candle to you guys!
Seriously, I really enjoy reading all of your posts on literature, movies, travel and people you have seen. You are one classy group and I am getting a whole new world of information. Thank you very much.
I know what you mean Pooh.. I thought I was doing good reading When Parents Hurt.. any my only association with the Dalai Lama came in the form of Beatles lyrics.
Yeah, and I was proud of myself for watching some historical shows lately...until this thread lol.
Has anyone watched Spartacus Blood and Sand?
Pam,
Yes, my girlfriend helps PR for it-so it is my friendly duty. Plus, DH loves gore. I just have to remember to close my curtains when it comes on TV!!!
Quote from: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 05:17:16 PM
Pam,
Yes, my girlfriend helps PR for it-so it is my friendly duty. Plus, DH loves gore. I just have to remember to close my curtains when it comes on TV!!!
Nuh uh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DH and I just finished watching it on Netflix. We just found it this weekend. Best show EVER.
I'm so upset that Andy Whitfield won't be back though. I hope he is doing well.
to to to much blood and sand.. now days I'm into more of a light hearted feel good type of entertainment.. but I love Desperate Housewives.. how's that for deep thinking
I hope he is too...cancer is awful. :(
I still find it hard to believe that THAT is Lucy Lawless. I guess it's the red wig. She just seems totally different than Xena: Warrior Princess.
Desperate Houswives? That's not nearly as deep and thoughtful as Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. That's my pitfall.
I can't believe I saw Lucy Lawless naked, hah! I am so impressed though, they didn't pick out porn star looking type women for the nude scenes. Very natural and beautiful women. I have never been a fan type of any show but this one...ah. Went to best buy today and bought copies of the first season, mailing them out Monday to my siblings and parents.
Atlanta housewives are my downfall...that Nene.
Okay, two glasses of wine will do this: More confessions...
I'll watch any Housewives I can find. I don't live by them, except for RHOBH...those ladies actually ARE filthy rich.
But, if one is on, it stays on TV...as long as DD is asleep.
I drove through Franklin Lakes, NJ on my way to Lake Placid, NY (where the RHONJ are)...disappointing. Their houses are bigger than mine, but screenshot to look larger than they are. They are all on busy roads, right along the street. I went to get a Panini at the Basket Market (it was crowded and small). I tried to go into the Chateau to see that, but it was closed. I know cameras work wonders, but I didn't know they could do that much enhancement.
I found Danielle's house (housewife), and a guy drove by and said she's basically just as crazy in real life as she is on TV. He started talking about all the stuff she did; that was my time to get in my car and drive away. Oh, that front window on her house is fake. It's an add on that has painted on curtains. Weird...I guess it's for the cameras.
My poor DH. Our 7 hour last minute trip to Lake Placid last September took 2 extra hours for my little excursion.
There is no way I could drink and talk about the housewives here without getting banned ;) Kadooz to you!
I haven't gotten into BH, yet. I know some people that know Jersey...haha and no, they aren't all that wealthy. Danielle has been one of the reality stars that I think a network should be concerned about, she doesn't seem to be acting her crazy. And her crazy isn't funny at all, I'm glad she was fired. Her poor kids.
Well you guys are still steps above my regular viewing. I love the VH1 dating shows and I love money. I don't care what anyone says anymore, way too funny to feel guilty about.
Quote from: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 07:20:59 PM
Okay, two glasses of wine will do this: More confessions...
I'll watch any Housewives I can find. I don't live by them, except for RHOBH...those ladies actually ARE filthy rich.
But, if one is on, it stays on TV...as long as DD is asleep.
I drove through Franklin Lakes, NJ on my way to Lake Placid, NY (where the RHONJ are)...disappointing. Their houses are bigger than mine, but screenshot to look larger than they are. They are all on busy roads, right along the street. I went to get a Panini at the Basket Market (it was crowded and small). I tried to go into the Chateau to see that, but it was closed. I know cameras work wonders, but I didn't know they could do that much enhancement.
I found Danielle's house (housewife), and a guy drove by and said she's basically just as crazy in real life as she is on TV. He started talking about all the stuff she did; that was my time to get in my car and drive away. Oh, that front window on her house is fake. It's an add on that has painted on curtains. Weird...I guess it's for the cameras.
My poor DH. Our 7 hour last minute trip to Lake Placid last September took 2 extra hours for my little excursion.
I actually know a few housewives who live in Lake Placid - they live in little log cabins with their hunter husbands. The decor in their homes is Early Mountain Man style. They cut firewood and xc ski. Not quite the same I take it?
no but the mountain women as probably more sane
Haha...no, but I'd certainly rather hang out with them!!
Well if we are doing "TV" confessions, here's mine. I get totally tickled at Everybody Loves Raymond, Family Guy and House. But I have a terrible addiction to Glee. I don't watch tons of TV, but I will make sure I get to watch Glee. Oh, and...WIPEOUT!
Pooh,
They all seem innocent to me!
Wipeout? I never heard of it. Am I living under a rock or is this just something that's new?
No, living under a rock is having a large, wall-mounted plasma TV with a sound bar and not turning it on since I moved here on October 8th. That's Living Under A Rock!
Quote from: holliberri on February 06, 2011, 10:44:07 AM
Pooh,
They all seem innocent to me!
Wipeout? I never heard of it. Am I living under a rock or is this just something that's new?
It's a contest where people have to make it through obstacle courses to move on to the next round. They get knocked down, flipped over, into water...mud....yuck stuff and take some hard hits. It's hilarious!
Glee is really fun. I didn't think I'd like it, not being a show choir fan, but I'm addicted now. I also loved Six Feet Under back in the day.
Six Feet Under got me through jet lag whem I got back to Italy. I'd watch it in marathon stretches. I miss that show!
I watch HGTV in marathon stretches
Kirk loved Six Feet Under! :)
I haven't read anything past pg3, so forgive me if I rehash this!
I only wanted my mother at the hospital with my husband. Heck, I didn't even want him "looking down the chute". My MIL had asked to come, but both DH and I had requested that no one visit until 2 weeks later. We had both thought it over, and because the "family" in general, aside from my Mom and Dad, have a 15 year history of requiring us to wait on them when they visit, we really didn't want them around for the crappy sleep deprivation phase. In retrospect, it worked out well because I was SO ILL once I got home (I caught something) and I went through terible PPD, family actually would have made it worse by requiring me, on 3 hours of sleep a day, to cook and clean for them. And when MIL did come at 2 weeks, this was EXACTLY what happend.
Gp shower? Well, they didn't even show up to my shower, so that didn't happen.
Positng pictures, announcements, etc? We REQUESTED they don't do this- both DH and I have clearances and he works in some VERY unsavory areas overseas, so we wanted no pics of her randomly in the paper or online, nor of him or I. That worked for about a year, but somehow, MIL has started posting them (of all of us). And it may sound trite, but it is not appreciated, especially if the picture helps you lose your head as a KTR in some forgein hell-hole. And DH freaks about our DD's picture on line- he conjures images of trolling pediphoiles.
I can't remember the other things, but I did remember someone posting about how this is or isn't about GPs and be nice or we won't babysit, etc. Forgive me if I remember that badly.
This is my child. Mine. My parents raised me to be successful and a contrubiting member of society. At 18, they did their best and sent me on my way (17 for me actually). They are happy to see me happy, sucessful and a blessed parent. They are happy to help if we want it and they can manage it. I don't need help raising/sitting/feeding/etc my child. I will get 3 jobs and not sleep if that happens. I don't need you to babysit. I don't need you to "take her so you can have some time off". Already did that as I was married 12 years before her. This is the choice I made for ME and DH and I am happy with it. I am glad you want to see her. I am glad to have you come and spend time. I am glad to have you tell her stories. But I don't NEED help, or owe you anything. You did your job for 17 years, that was what you were supposed to as the choice of becoming a parent. If anything, we OWE our children 18 years. For the GPs, this is not a do over either. If you messed up with your kids (as the situation with my DH and his parents) my child is not the experiment by which you will find absolution for your parental screw-ups.
Just my 2 cents. And I don't feel entitled, if anything, I have earned every bloody thing I have. Including my child.
Quote from: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 10:04:38 AM
Well if we are doing "TV" confessions, here's mine. I get totally tickled at Everybody Loves Raymond, Family Guy and House. But I have a terrible addiction to Glee. I don't watch tons of TV, but I will make sure I get to watch Glee. Oh, and...WIPEOUT!
Pooh, I am so excited to hear that my adopted MIL loves Glee! That is one of my favorites- along with Family Guy! Can't wait for Glee tonight. I have such a crush on Finn (it's okay because in real life he's my age... :) )
I know...I like Idol but I was bummed that they knocked Glee off last week to show it...dang it. I'll be getting my Glee fix tonight too! And to top it off, I think I saw on the previews that they were doing Prince! Woot woot!
I am going to start watching TV when i get old.
Is it super sad that I have a crush on Blaine? I was totally rooting for Rachel to turn him straight! lol
Ha ha...no ADIL. I was rooting for it too cause he's so darn cute!
If we're having tv "confessions"...I love Justified. Yes, it's dark and violent, but I love it so.
Quote from: 1Glitterati on March 13, 2011, 03:44:34 PM
If we're having tv "confessions"...I love Justified. Yes, it's dark and violent, but I love it so.
Glee is my other favorite.
(I hit post too soon!)
Quote from: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 11:02:13 AM
Quote from: holliberri on February 06, 2011, 10:44:07 AM
Pooh,
They all seem innocent to me!
Wipeout? I never heard of it. Am I living under a rock or is this just something that's new?
It's a contest where people have to make it through obstacle courses to move on to the next round. They get knocked down, flipped over, into water...mud....yuck stuff and take some hard hits. It's hilarious!
Oh Pooh!!! again another show I can't bear to watch....I want to find it funny, I just can't see the funny side, I don't even think it is so stupid it is funny, or it is so embarrassing it is funny, really i think I have a non sense of humour, can I develop a sense of humour do you think? Is it a condition when others laugh at jokes and I don't see the funny side?? it bothers me...now Glee don't start me!! It must be me...
Nah Julia. I think it's a fine line between stupid funny and funny funny. I have all kinds of friends, and a DH that loves both, but I struggle through the stupid funny stuff. And I have a great sense of humor, albeit warped at times. I think wipeout does fall in the category of stupid funny, but I find humor in it because the people volunteer to put themselves through it, knowing they are gonna get splatted, and that makes it funny to me. So there are a few stupid funnies I can like, but in general, not my cup of tea.
Stupid funny = Austin Powers, Napoleon Dynamite, Ace Ventura Pet Detective
Funny Funny = Tooth Fairy, Patch Adams, When Harry met Sally
That doesn't mean you don't have a sense of humor. Just different tastes. My Daddy has the most dry sense of humor in the world, and we all will be laughing our hineys off at something and he'll just stare at us. But then when you least expect it, BAM...he throws out some zinger.
Pooh, I was so excited when Wipeout first came out. It was like a show designed specifically for my humor. This sounds awful, but one of the funniest things to me is people falling. I just can't help it!
I'm there with you OW, even though we should be ashamed. Every time they show a Miss America tripping and sliding down or something, I giggle. I'm putting myself in time-out now.... ;D
The birth? Oh no, grandparents feel they should be there--after all, it IS their first grandchild
Not sure why you find this offensive, if the gp want to be there it is because they are excited and happy about the birth of their first gc. It is up to you who is in the labor room but what harm could come from some very excited people in the waiting room . Would it be better if those same gp paid the event no attention and acted like it was no big deal? I am sure if that was the case, we would be reading how the gp showed no interest in the birth of their gc
Feeding the baby? Even if you BF, GPs think you should pump so they can bond that way too, with the child. Feeding the baby is a necessary thing and in all liklihood the gps are not there all that often. I always felt that it was important that they became familiar with their gc should they babysit in the future and that way they would get to know the baby's habits etc.
Announcing the baby? How many times have we read about posts on FB, or sending out X-mas cards, or birth announcements? I think announcing that you have had a grandchild is just something that the gp want to share with their friends and family. I have never seen a birth announcement from a gp nor have I ever seen a Christmas card from a gp . Those two instances might be considered a bit over the top.
Showers? Please---GPs showers are growing in popularity, and they make me sick (yes, MIL had one). Never heard of one other then perhaps gp giving the new mom a shower.
Choosing the name? Again, we hear time and time again about GPs who feel they have the right to either pick the name themselves, or comment on the ones we've picked. I think all gp feel that they should at least be able to offer suggestions and perhaps comment on ones you have picked but ultimately the choice is yours. Here in Sweden, you would really have a problem because once you pick a name, it has to be approved by the government and they have vetoed many in the past.
Mother's Day? Not only do we have to share these days, but now there is also GP's day, and even the lovely MIL's day. Ugh. Seriously Before those gp were gp they were also mom and dad. As far as I know their status of moms did not end once their children got married. Mother's day is a day that honors mothers and motherhood and is shared from the begining of time by all mothers, someday you will also be a gp and mil and will have to share those days as will
I think what is missing here is the realization that any child with a loving family foundation and support network will only benefit from the experience and you should enjoy that your child is so loved.
"...I think what is missing here is the realization that any child with a loving family foundation and support network will only benefit from the experience and you should enjoy that your child is so loved...." Quote from Sheen
I agree.
That's funny about Sweden. Two of the baby names I really like have been on Swedens top 100 names for a long time, I couldn't figure out why either as they are not Swedish lol
Pen :
I agree too , it's only now that my GD is becoming a handful that my F/DIL is willing to let me share some of the burden .
to begin with she felt that anyone else getting too close would stop her bonding with the baby .
now she is only too glad to hand her over . I feel a baby will always know who her mom is , no matter
how often a GP looks after the child .
Quote from: Sheen on April 09, 2011, 11:08:01 PM
The birth? Oh no, grandparents feel they should be there--after all, it IS their first grandchild
Not sure why you find this offensive, if the gp want to be there it is because they are excited and happy about the birth of their first gc.
Again...me being cold...It isn't about what the gp's want at all. It isn't about them. It is about what the person giving birth wants. "It IS their first grandchild"...so what? That in no way trumps being a parent and that doesn't give anyone an equal say in the matter.
Maybe I'm just having a grumpy day, I just don't understand the thinking that gp's have a right to be @ the hospital if they aren't invited.
That's exactly why if DH and I are ever to have a bio child together -- in laws won't be told when we go into labor until after the birth. And when we are ready for them to visit. If they were somewhat normal where you could speak to them about your wants/concerns I wouldn't have a problem with them. But since they are the type of people to ignore my best interests at a very vulnerable time, I (and DH) don't see any other choice but to protect our best interests ourselves.
I don't really see why anyone would want to wait in the waiting room and I can't imagine putting that pressure on anyone. Or trying to take that time away from the happy couple and their child, it's so precious and fleeting. Attempts on horning in on that raise numerous red flags for me, it's just an inherent lack of consideration for another person. A grandparents wants don't come before the families need.
Quote from: pam1 on April 10, 2011, 03:33:42 PM
That's exactly why if DH and I are ever to have a bio child together -- in laws won't be told when we go into labor until after the birth. And when we are ready for them to visit. If they were somewhat normal where you could speak to them about your wants/concerns I wouldn't have a problem with them. But since they are the type of people to ignore my best interests at a very vulnerable time, I (and DH) don't see any other choice but to protect our best interests ourselves.
I don't really see why anyone would want to wait in the waiting room and I can't imagine putting that pressure on anyone. Or trying to take that time away from the happy couple and their child, it's so precious and fleeting. Attempts on horning in on that raise numerous red flags for me, it's just an inherent lack of consideration for another person. A grandparents wants don't come before the families need.
I may have the opposite problem when I'm a mil. I have no intention of going and sitting in the waiting room...even if asked. Perhaps I'll be thought a witch for that when the time comes, but life will go on.
Different strokes for different folks!
It does all come down to personal choice of everyone. There is no right or wrong. Here's the perspective I like to have when it comes to things like that. I was 38 years old and had to have surgery. My DH was there, with me. I told my Mother there was no reason to come and DH would call when over. Guess who walked into the waiting room? You got it, Mom and Dad. She said she wanted to be there. She couldn't stand just sitting at home waiting on a call. They had showered, got dressed and were sitting there waiting for the phone to ring. They were ready to go in case something went wrong. She said they sat there maybe 5 minutes and looked at each other. Let's go.
Was I angry? No. I know she did it because she loved me and was worried. End of story. Did it hurt me for them to sit in a waiting room for 3 hours? No. Didn't do anything to me. I didn't think of it as it was about them. It was about me and their love for me.
I would do the exact same thing for them.
Pooh, that's something my parents would do too :) And, no, I wouldn't mind. They don't make things about them. Although you didn't really explicitly tell them no under any circumstances. I think what a lot of DILs have a problem with is that they say no and it's challenged constantly. Boundaries seem to be tested quite a bit with my in laws...I just don't understand why they don't hear what I say the first time. It's not like I'm a wilting flower and talk quietly lol
I've got a story about my in laws and in the waiting room. My SIL had a long labor and ended up having a c-section. They called and texted BIL (their son) the entire time while he was with SIL. I told my DH after that fiasco that he better not bring his phone in and then we just ended up changing it to they won't be told at all. We have also got another BIL who stares at your chest lol and since the in laws insist on traveling as a pack (they don't understand when you try to just ask them out for dinner, they pout the other children can't come) you're stuck at a vulnerable time.
The more I think about this with them the more I'm convinced that I might just not tell them until I'm home lol
Quote from: 1Glitterati on April 10, 2011, 03:40:38 PM
Quote from: pam1 on April 10, 2011, 03:33:42 PM
That's exactly why if DH and I are ever to have a bio child together -- in laws won't be told when we go into labor until after the birth. And when we are ready for them to visit. If they were somewhat normal where you could speak to them about your wants/concerns I wouldn't have a problem with them. But since they are the type of people to ignore my best interests at a very vulnerable time, I (and DH) don't see any other choice but to protect our best interests ourselves.
I don't really see why anyone would want to wait in the waiting room and I can't imagine putting that pressure on anyone. Or trying to take that time away from the happy couple and their child, it's so precious and fleeting. Attempts on horning in on that raise numerous red flags for me, it's just an inherent lack of consideration for another person. A grandparents wants don't come before the families need.
I may have the opposite problem when I'm a mil. I have no intention of going and sitting in the waiting room...even if asked. Perhaps I'll be thought a witch for that when the time comes, but life will go on.
I can't see myself doing that either. I will be happy to be a grandparent but I think it comes from the circle of life. Just watching my children hit their milestones and be happy. I just want to watch, I have no interest in taking over.
Actually, I'm counting down now until DD goes to college lol. 8 going on 13....argh. I asked DH if they make military boarding schools for elementary kids lol
If any of my kids had to have surgery ...I would be there , no question !
Different with the birth of a baby , I think that's a special time for new parents , and no I wouldn't
be there . I went for an hour to see my GD when she came home .Giving birth is so traumatic at the best
of times without coping with IL's .!
Yeah, I think there are big differences between major surgery and child birth. Plus, I was in labor for 26 hours. I KNOW there were relatives that went into the waiting room without my permission, but the baby outlasted them...they gave up and went home. :) The doctor even went out at one point and told them that while I could have all the meds to help me sleep, he couldn't give them any, and he didn't see the point in them being there. They lasted 4 more hours after that and then decided their own beds were way more comfortable than chairs.
He also sent my DH home until dead heat, so to speak. He said there just wasn't any point in DH being there for all that time to be exhausted along with me when we were just waiting, and that so long as I was comfortable, DH could go home while I tried to dilate.
It actually worked out b/c instead of entertaining my DH playing cards and watching TV, I wrote my term paper.
I'm not sure I'll want to sit in the waiting room either. However, if I do want to, the mother-to-be won't have control over who sits in the waiting room/gift store/hospital cafeteria/cafe across the street which are all considered public spaces, although she would definitely have control over who is in the labor/delivery room. Control what you can and let go of what you can't.
Doesn't it depend on the motive behind the waiting in the waiting room? To just hear news about the baby is one thing. Fine, go home, let mom and baby rest.
But, if it is during visiting hours, the hospital I was at would have allowed you to hold the baby (so long as the dad was there), often before the mother did (if she was on the mend from a c-section). Something about that doesn't sit quite right with me. I'm having visions of distant relatives taking photos ops with the baby before mom is even out of surgery. And, I've read the horror stories on here...it has happend.
I think for many excited GPs, the point of hanging out in the waiting room (for hours, even days on end) during child birth is not so much about the mom-to-be as it is about the newborn baby. In that case, sitting at home and waiting to be invited to see/hold the baby is best, I think.
Sitting in a waiting room doesn't seem to be offensive, it's just that many feel that if they sat there then they are entitled to come into the room and see the baby and/or new mother at some point.
Yeah, I think you got it, Laurie.
So long as GPs/Aunt/Uncles/Best friends realize that sitting in the waiting room to hear some news does not mean they should be visiting with the new family afterwards since they waited out out, I don't see a problem.
But, there are some folks that take a mile when you give them an inch. Plus, folks in the waiting room means that the new Dad has to come out and deliver good news, when he himself could be with the baby. Then, instead of accepting the good news, some folks play the game of 50 questions, further keeping dad fom checking on mom and baby. I didn't need DH before baby, but after surgery, I needed help with everything. I've never felt so helpless.
Ahhh but that's the thing Pen. the way DH and I are doing it will control who is what and where. But I feel we are backed into a corner and will have to do it this way.
I think normal people or relationships sitting in a waiting room is no big deal. But if someone told you no...why would you continue? It seems to me that the benefit won't out weight the cost. So you might get a glimpse of the baby or hold the baby before Mom but ugh, the waiting room won't be there forever. So when Mom gets out and heals and starts actively parenting and the grandparent is shut out....what will be the excuse then? There is no waiting room for them
Oh gosh, yes Holli. 50 questions, please come out and talk to us..when can we see the baby? Dad, do you want to go eat? When can I come back? What are they doing to her? What is going on?
It's just not the time
When my first was born, he had some problems... after going through a natural childbirth, they drugged me just to knock me out as they couldn't deal with me and a baby in great need ... one of the first things that I was told was that my baby could have possibly suffered from lack of oxygen and it was possible that he had suffered some brain damage, he was being tested and they would bring him in to me soon.
The 50 question game would have been beyond me at that point and all my dh wanted to do was to stare at me and make sure that I was handling everything. I don't think that he would have been up to dealing with his parents much less mine.
Laurie, that is very similar with what happened with my SIL. It was a nightmare for her. When she checked in to the hospital and news traveled around, MIL kept calling DH and I demanding we take the day off of work to come sit in the waiting room. We were the only ones who resisted and this was all after SIL requested they not do that. And then she went all through the craziness of birth and something might be wrong with the baby and the in laws demanding their fair due all at the same time. I just can't imagine what they were thinking
Holli was right, it was all about the newborn baby and not the mother. When we all know birth is not just about a baby. It seems like it's a complete lack of consideration for another human being. So what if you can do it? Why would you?
It reminds me of this other DIL on another forum. Her MIL has been stalking her children, they have the police involved and everything at this point. It seems to me that claiming that they can sit in the waiting room or any other public place just because they *can* is one step away from stalking. Doing what this deranged MIL is doing will be the next step, driving by daycare, sitting in the parking lots etc. She *can* do it, it's all public places after all.
It's up to the new parents to state what they want before the baby is born , that way no one is upset .
It's such a tender moment for new parents , it should be for them only .
If the new dad needs back up for any reason , then he could summon help and support.
Even though they mean well , I wouldn't want everyone handling my newborn .
It is so amazing all the different ways of thinking about the same situation. That's why I so love this site. I agree with all of you that if you say no, it should be no. I guess it just never bothered me how many people sat in a waiting room. It also didn't bother me for them to come in afterwards and hold the babies. I totally agree that if you don't want people there, they should honor your wishes. It's just not something that bugged me.
As one who has given birth more than once I also believe that if the couple states their preference for people to stay away, it would be nice if their wishes were honored. As one who will be a GP one day, I can think of better ways to spend my time than in a waiting room.
My point is that the waiting room isn't the same as the labor/delivery/post-labor room. Just because someone is in a hospital waiting room doesn't give them the right to barge in after the baby is born; hospital staff will abide by the new parents wishes, so I don't know what the fear is. The waiting room of a hospital is a public place where lots of people sit and well, wait. I don't think a woman in labor has control over the waiting room any more than she has control over any other part of the hospital, the parking lot, the restaurant nearby, etc. Even if you have a home birth, you can't control who drives down the street or sits in a parked car down the block unless perhaps you're royalty or a major celeb, and even then it's iffy.
It's probably tacky & awkward to sit and wait when the couple has said not to, but it's not illegal or in violation of most hospitals policies.
New parents have the right to say what goes on in labor & delivery, and at their home upon return with the new baby. Other than that, people have a right to move around the nation at will, like it or not. Some will make classy choices and honor the wishes of the new parents. Others will not, but again it's not illegal, just obnoxious.
I knew what you meant, Pen.
The waiting room for maternity in my hospital was smack in between the maternity ward and the surgery room.
Just logistics, and I didn't go in planning to have a c-section, but DH had to walk right by the waiting room with DD to get back to the maternity room after surgery after I did wind up having one. In thinking about it, I'm glad no one was there, and so was DH.
In that situation, there is no stopping interuption from caring family members should they see you walk by.
So, I think that is why the waiting room is a sticking point for me. Although, I'm not sure it was before I went into labor...I had no idea where the surgery room was.
Pen, I don't think we are saying much differently. Yes, people can do that. Unless the parents know beforehand and they stop the information train before it even gets started.
And, the difference is that there will be consequences from doing something like that. The mother will not be comfortable with the offenders, they often will get less time with gc in return. You can't expect to treat anyone the way you want to just because it's legal and expect them not to tailor how they treat you.
So, sure it's all legal and that jazz. But it doesn't mean you will get what you want in return.
I'm not so sure that just waiting there won't harm someone if they explicitly told you not too. Holli has explained how it could have happened in her case, I saw what my SIL went through. I remember people being specifically told in my SMs case that they had to leave the room when she breastfed b/c they were too dumbstruck and excited on their own they couldn't remember she wasn't just a birthing cow. People can act really stupid at times
I forgot to add with my SM that at that hospital, unless they specifically named you, often times you were let through the maternity ward. So my uncles name wasn't on the forbidden list and he was allowed through to her room. And just sat there like a donkey while she was trying to breastfeed and stuff. He had to literally be told forcefully to leave.
There are so many stories like this that women have to go through with birth. I'm just so surprised that other women aren't more protective of their kind.
These may be famous last words as I do not have grandchildren yet.
I Want no GP baby shower
I dont see a need to be at hospital when the bavby is born
I dont want to feed the baby from a bottle of its mothers milk
They can name it " Little devil" if they wish for it shall grow up and answer me and them back.
I want to spend my golden years free of worrying about how the little devils are born,bred and fed.
This is me time
;) ;D
most of the Maternity Units in the UK are kept locked and can only be entered by the staff .
visitors have to be passed before they can enter .This is to prevent people stealing newborns , also to
keep infection at bay .
so no likee , no entree .....lol
LOL, LL. It is supposed to be that way at our hospitals. Our maternity ward was locked but the waiting room was just outside the surgery area. So....it would be pretty easy to just roll up there in scrubs and say you need to take a newborn; although it would have been harder to get into the maternity ward. I actually wrote a letter about this to the hospital board.
I believe it happens 11 times a year in the U.S. (and by happens, I mean attempts).
Also, the scrubs themselves seem to symbolize ultimate authority. So many people are in and out asking for your baby for tests (vitals, hearing, bilirubin, etc.), that I think parents stop questioning who is taking the baby after awhile. One nurse rolled her eyes at me when I asked to see her ID.
They also have a GPS tracking device on the babies ankles now, although I'm not sure how hard they are to remove. They have done studies and even seasoned nurses will see someone in scrubs and not think a thing of it, and allow them access to just about anything.
The sad part is, some women establish a relationship with the parents before taking their newborn, that way the parents think nothing of handing her their child and letting her leave the room. Just awful.
One woman just found her birth mother afer a few decades; she questioned the story she received from who she thought was her mom and started googling. She found a photo that looked just like her newborn baby. DNA tests proved she was taken at birth. So sad. At least the world is smaller now.
Imagine having your baby stolen .....couldn't even contemplate the feeling .
My ODS went touring after graduating , disappeared with a ticket round the world and a backpack .
I felt as if I had lost a limb ....and I knew he was coming back ....eventually .
With my first there was another woman two rooms down with the same name as I... we both spelled first and last names the same... before I even got to see my baby they were delivering beautiful baby pictures.. of course I should have caught on but in the state of mind that I was, I just went on and one with my mom on the phone about how beautiful my baby is.. he looks just like the Gerber baby I said... In comes this child that closely resembled the comic Gallagher... still I didn't catch on and thought he was exceptionally photogenic.
Even if it's not the outsiders that you are trying to keep away from your babies, it could be the other new mothers, I had developed shingles with only weeks let to my delivery date, so while I was not contagious, we were taking no chances.... The staff could have just as easily brought me her baby instead of mine, and they were about to until my mother put it all together.... lol.. she reached the other Laurie and at first thought I was delirious from drugs or something... it came down to middle names to figure out what was going on.
There is just to much going on around the birth of a child to be inundated with well wishers.. IMHO
Laurie,
I forgot about the shingles. I remember having them and the doctor was like, "We have to keep an eye on this and make sure it gets cleared up."
I was like, "Why couldn't this happen after she was born???"
He shook his head and said, "Actually, this is a great time, we've got 20 weeks to clear it up. If you contracted it closer to delivery, you could give it to your baby as she's being born, and then it could spread to all of the other babies as well."
Silly me.
No they don't take to many chance with babies and shingles, had I contracted them any closer to my due date he would have been born c-section... as it turns out that is what we should have done anyway
Quote from: Sheen on April 09, 2011, 11:08:01 PM
The birth? Oh no, grandparents feel they should be there--after all, it IS their first grandchild
Not sure why you find this offensive, if the gp want to be there it is because they are excited and happy about the birth of their first gc. It is up to you who is in the labor room but what harm could come from some very excited people in the waiting room . Would it be better if those same gp paid the event no attention and acted like it was no big deal? I am sure if that was the case, we would be reading how the gp showed no interest in the birth of their gc
Feeding the baby? Even if you BF, GPs think you should pump so they can bond that way too, with the child. Feeding the baby is a necessary thing and in all liklihood the gps are not there all that often. I always felt that it was important that they became familiar with their gc should they babysit in the future and that way they would get to know the baby's habits etc.
Announcing the baby? How many times have we read about posts on FB, or sending out X-mas cards, or birth announcements? I think announcing that you have had a grandchild is just something that the gp want to share with their friends and family. I have never seen a birth announcement from a gp nor have I ever seen a Christmas card from a gp . Those two instances might be considered a bit over the top.
Showers? Please---GPs showers are growing in popularity, and they make me sick (yes, MIL had one). Never heard of one other then perhaps gp giving the new mom a shower.
Choosing the name? Again, we hear time and time again about GPs who feel they have the right to either pick the name themselves, or comment on the ones we've picked. I think all gp feel that they should at least be able to offer suggestions and perhaps comment on ones you have picked but ultimately the choice is yours. Here in Sweden, you would really have a problem because once you pick a name, it has to be approved by the government and they have vetoed many in the past.
Mother's Day? Not only do we have to share these days, but now there is also GP's day, and even the lovely MIL's day. Ugh. Seriously Before those gp were gp they were also mom and dad. As far as I know their status of moms did not end once their children got married. Mother's day is a day that honors mothers and motherhood and is shared from the begining of time by all mothers, someday you will also be a gp and mil and will have to share those days as will
I think what is missing here is the realization that any child with a loving family foundation and support network will only benefit from the experience and you should enjoy that your child is so loved.
Well said!! Especially the last paragraph! :)
Quote from: Laurie on April 11, 2011, 02:40:31 PM
No they don't take to many chance with babies and shingles, had I contracted them any closer to my due date he would have been born c-section... as it turns out that is what we should have done anyway
Shingles comes from the chicken pox virus and is only contagious if athe person has not had chickenpox . Someone who has not had chicken pox can therefore be infected with chickenpox if they come into contact with shingles.
Obviously a baby can be infected at birth.
Joke in our newspaper this evening
A woman received the following letter from her daughter-in-law
Dear mother-in-law
Please do not tell me how to raise my children.
I am married to one of yours and I believe there is room for improvement
Regards
Your daughter-in-law
LOL Funny enough, my MIL would actually enjoy a card that says something like that. She does have a good sense of humor sometimes. I'm going to have to make one up for her.
Hilarious!!! ;D ;D ;D
I always felt flattered about my kids having so much love from my family and husband's family. I did wanted all to enjoy my kids. They were nurtured with loved coming from everyone around them. They had great emotional health.... I thank God they had grandparents who cared about them. I let them be real grandparents and my children (all grown now) have lovely memories of their grandparents. Different perspectives.
I know this is not always possible. Circumstances are different for all of us. My in-laws were good people who respected me, my husband and my kids. They were not pushy or intrussive...
Cant understand what is so wrong about being in the hospital waiting room, just waiting to hear the good news. Nevertheless I would (and have) always respect my dil's wishes.
Love
Nana, you make a good point. With my DD's fathers family, I'm so grateful that they take this much of an interest in her. Her grandparents take her on vacations, makes sure she keeps relationships with extended family. They are loving and respect me. Grandma even still tells me she loves me and calls to check up on me, personally without talking to DD.
I've often felt with DH that his family is only interested in me being a birthing cow. (I posted some of my infertility story previously) They have *never* asked me questions about myself that would indicate a social nicety. They've asked amazingly intrusive questions though, about my health, my parents divorce, if my siblings have struggled with infertility etc. They've *never* asked anything like what my father does, how my siblings are doing etc. When I've had a family emergency they have never asked how family is doing and offered condolences or anything like that. They will, however, keep calling at odd hours, waking our household up who desperately needs sleep to figure out if we're going to make it to their chalk drawing contest. They have never asked about my heritage, I remind them every year that I'm irish, through and through and they still keep trying to insist that corned beef is a traditional dish lol.
It may be stupid and petty at times, but it's amazing to me just how different my daughters family is and my husbands family. It's almost like my husbands family treats me as an interloper who can only provide one useful thing, to extend their blood line.
Not ever possible understand when doesn't make sense. Sensing love...
Chalk drawing contest! LOL!
Just popping in and reading threads. I got to this one and wanted to point something out. Hospital property....which means the waiting room, etc...are private property, not public. We can and do remove people for a variety of reasons.
Also, in many hospitals, the maternity ward is being more and more heavily guarded due to a number of issues. In our hospital, the maternity waiting room is behind a locked door and you must be on a "guest list" to wait there.
I think that a PP hit the nail on the head when they discussed the more pressing issue to people in the waiting room....that they'll likely want updates and visits. I agree that if you want to go, sit in a waiting room for 16 hours, and then go home, it won't disturb the mother. But if you want to view the baby, hear the dad say that the baby's been born, visit the mom, etc, then this does disturb the patient. Most babies room in now, so "seeing them through the nursery window" is becoming a thing of the past. Wanting dad to update the waiting room means less time he's in the room with the new mom and baby and, if the updates are requested during labor, then dad is a distracted coach. Wanting to visit after birth obviously disturbs the patient because you're going in her room. So my question to you would be, if you're going to just sit in a room for 16 hours (or longer) and then go home with no interaction from the couple, why does it matter what day you do it? The honest answer is that you *are* expecting *some* interaction from the couple. And that's the part that is the real issue.
On the books topic, I'm currently reading the Alchemist series. It's written for teens, but I picked it up because I liked the cover and now I can't put them down.
Well, I'll be darned! Hi, Clover! That was very informative. Thanks! How's your daughter doing? Sending love...
She's great. I'm now part time so I get to see more of her than I did before. I read here when she lets me have a break, so I'm around. Having two hands available to type....that's a whole other story.
Well, when you want to tell the whole other story, please do. It sounds like you must have been temporarily disabled? I have a soft spot in my heart for you and remember when I was just getting started with WWU and was monitoring it all alone that you told me I reminded you of your grand mother. I was so touched. You got off to such a rocky start here. Lots of water under the bridge since then. Years...
Not disabled, just seems like I always have my hands full when I'm reading here (usually on my phone, now). Somehow I went to part time and have even less time than I did when I was working full time. I'm writing up my results, and I decided to use this time as a mini-sabbatical and work part time. So I go into the office Monday and Tuesday and write, pass along the drafts to collegues to edit over Wednesday and Thursday, and then come in on Friday to make changes or compile other data. It is only for a few months while I'm writing up, but it's nice to be able to spend more time with my LO and to recharge a bit.
Wow...thanks for checking in. I miss you and I'm glad you still are able to touch base and read our site. Sending love...