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Problem Solving => Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters => Topic started by: maxine on August 21, 2011, 07:27:14 AM

Title: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on August 21, 2011, 07:27:14 AM
So glad I have found this site. I have messaged Luise direct but thought it a good idea to hear other points of view on this problem. So here goes. I will try and keep this short!
I have a son of 23 who is intending to quit is 3 year contract as a trainee accountant ( he has been there  1year and is doioing very well)  He has suddenly decided to be a singer/ songwrite but has never performed anywhere yet. He does have a small amount of talent but then do so many others out there.
We have sat down and tried to talk this through and other friends and relatives ( a couple in the music industry) have tried to convince him to do the music bit on the weekends and evenings and finish the 2 years to get the qualifications.  I am not sure if this composing is just a cover up for not wanting to grow up and take responsibilty, it is difficult to say.  He tells me that he has been depressed for several years but all I have noticed is that he is sometimes quiet and of low self esteem.

He was away for a 3 years at uni and did very well.Then he went on to look for a job ( which took 9 months) where he had to do many interviews and presentations which I thought was amazing considering he is shy.

We had hoped that he would move out soon but that wont happen now if he is not working. We also suggested that before he quits he finds himself another job  but he now wants to go to full time music college and probably expects us to fund him.  Can any one suggested what I should do.? I feel I should just step back and let him make mistakes and learn that way getting it out of his system. But I know that should he start looking for a job next year he will find it very difficult especially when employers see that he quit his last job. hope somebody has some advice

Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Begonia on August 21, 2011, 07:38:20 AM
Hi Maxine:  I am new here so won't give advice, but I thought you really did a nice job of stating the issue. I have many musical friends who have had similar situations with their children this age.  I know you will get great feedback on this site.  Good luck to you. 
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Keys Girl on August 21, 2011, 08:49:55 AM
Maxine, it's always interesting when adult children expect their aging parents to fund their "dreams".  I think he's "fishing" looking for that feedback from you and your husband that you'll support him until he wins a Grammy.......even if that means when he's 90.

I would get on the internet, pull up the bios of a dozen successful songwriters and print them up and give them to him.  Make sure you look for the ones who spent their early lives in poverty, Johnny Cash might be one.  My son once told me he wanted to be an actor.  I encouraged him by telling him he needed to go out and get a job as a waiter, because most waiters are starting artists.

Don't try to convince him of anything, he won't be convinced.  Give him 3 months notice, and tell him that you have rented out his room because with this struggling economy you need to do whatever you can to make ends meet.  Put an ad in the local internet newspaper and bring people in to look at his room so he knows that your aren't joking.  Alternatively you could sell the house, downgrade a place for you and your DH, but not large enough for him.  Hoping that he'll move out won't bring any results that you want, forcing him to stand on his own two feet and move out will. 

My generation learned the basics: If you quit your job, you won't be able to pay the rent and buy groceries, baby formula and diapers.  Jobs are hard to come by these days.  Give him some food stamps and the promise that you'll be clapping in the audience when he thanks his parents for sending him of to fulfill his dreams and give him some new material for his songs.

I can't think of one Top 10 hits that stars out with "I live with my parents, I've got it good, I don't have to worry, even though I should".

If he's been depressed, there is help for that.  Not having a job and a framework would likely bring on more depression.  Wayne Dwyer said "Be miserable or do something about it, the choice is yours".

Good luck.

Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: pam1 on August 21, 2011, 09:05:31 AM
Welcome Maxine :)

Please read the Forum Agreement in the category Open Me First.  We ask all new members to do so, not b/c there is anything wrong with your post.

Since he is hinting/implying that he'll just stay with you until he makes it big I think now is the time to give him the time line for when you expect him to be living on his own.  His choices are his own and so is the responsibility.  You did a good job Mom, it's his turn.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on August 21, 2011, 09:28:49 AM
Thanks for all the good advice. We have had talks about him moving out and were prepard to initially help him with his rent for about three months assuming that he would pay all the other expenses - food, elec , taxes etc.  now his  argument is that he wont be able to afford to live out if he is not earning.  He now informs us that he wants to go to music college full time ! so if he has the money for that in his savings he could afford to  move out , try and get another job and study at night school.  It wont be easy  getting another job as so many people especially of his age are on benefits.

We have a daughter of 25 yrs also living at home but she has not had a proper full time job for nearly 2 years so I get the childish reply from my son of "its not fair, she is still living at home"

I had thought of suggesting 3 months allowed to live at home in return for 3 months volunteering in south america or africa. I think he would return a changed person after seeing what it is like in the real world.  What do you think ?
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: pam1 on August 21, 2011, 09:40:23 AM
I hope he takes you up on your offer!  That sounds awesome to me. 

Is your daughter having a tough time finding a job?  Just curious, I know it's rough out there now.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: luise.volta on August 21, 2011, 10:25:12 AM
Welcome - I think it is hard for most of us to let our adult "kids" go and watch them flounder and at times fail because of poor choices. And yet, that's the plan; raise 'em and turn 'em loose. Easy but not simple. If we don't set limits, we prolong the parent/child dynamic after it should have shifted to mutual responsibility and respect...and it becomes unhealthy and even harder to release. Sending love...
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Keys Girl on August 21, 2011, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: maxine on August 21, 2011, 09:28:49 AM

I had thought of suggesting 3 months allowed to live at home in return for 3 months volunteering in south america or africa. I think he would return a changed person after seeing what it is like in the real world. What do you think ?

I don't agree that he will return a changed person, I think it's just another way to prolong him standing on his feet if you are going to fund that.  If he wants to go to South America, he should go and fund it himself.

As for the remarks about your daughter, since I assume that neither one of them is doing anything except whatever they want to actually contribute to the household, I would set up a set of chores, cutting the grass, painting the house, cleaning carpets, etc. etc.  You daughter could also run errands for a fee, do laundry, set up kid's birthday parties, etc. etc.

I would also promise their services to my friends and neighbours as as type of "sweat equity" since they aren't contributing financially to the household (until they move to their own place). 

Time for you to stop worrying about them and their future, that's their responsibility and if you stop picking up the tab for them, you'll have a few $$ for yourself!

Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: CrystalBall on August 21, 2011, 12:40:12 PM
Well, we are living now in a society that emphasizes "following your dream", however unlikely and impractical this dream is.  So, it is time for you to pursue your dream of a self supporting son where you are funding no more education for a 23 year old!  Why are only youth allowed dreams? :)  You should let your son know of your dream that he function as an independent man and how depressed you will be paying for another direction career wise in his life. 
Truly, I can see you are a caring, kind hearted Mom and have done enough.  Try not to think that if he can't pursue his dream on your dime, you are responsible for any sort of sadness he has.  Please think of your own entitlement to peace.

I think of a friend of mine who recently mentioned that her parents lived their own lives with all three of their children married by age 21 and had absolutely no demands whereas the current generation of parents are often caught with adult children living like perpetual adolescents, draining them financially and emotionally.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Begonia on August 21, 2011, 01:41:56 PM
I really agree wholeheartedly with those who say that funding anything more will only prolong his independence.  I mentioned on another post that Dr. Phil (like him or not) says we teach people how to treat us. 

I was always there to pick up the pieces for my kids and they were always having financial difficulties, daughter even went through bankruptcy, husband lost job, etc.  I have "gifted" them some money even if I am a single senior citizen living on ONE income (both my children are married and everyone works). Sad part is, they never had to ask, which they can use against me now.  Beware of this!!

I think it is much like an addict needing more and more.  Unbeknownst to me at the time I was teaching my very adult children that I would always be there with some $$.  One Christmas there was not even a card from any of them.  I was snowbound and all by myself.  Neither even called me.  And as broke as my daughter said she was there has always been money for her nails and her cigarettes and her $4 espressos.

Now I am in this mess where they are shunning me because I stopped the gifts and listening to the whining.  So I say nip it in the bud now, as it will not, repeat not, get better.  You will do both your children a favor by being firm.  Our children are smart enough to know that work is HARD and home is easy--after all, they have watched our struggles and they do not want that life.  In many instances we have tried to protect them from living our hard lives and it usually backfires leaving us to pour our hearts out to each other on blogs like this wondering where we went wrong loving them so much.  I am very guilty of that and I realize now it was my own need to try to insulate them from a hard life.  Silly me.   Lily Tomlin said, "We are all in this alone."  I always smile when I think of that. 

Oprah has a saying "We all have to walk through the fire, going around it will not solve the problems."  The greatest peace I will have is knowing that my children can make it on their own without me. I am striving for adult to adult communication now, not having these teenage behaviors from 40-something children.  Amen and hugs to you...keep being strong!! 
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Ruth on August 21, 2011, 02:59:02 PM
I agree very much with Keys Girl.  We must stop parenting our kids from the standpoint of fear/guilt.  It isn't in their ultimate good and although we may not be popular with them for a time, in the long run that's our job as parents.  We seem to be so needy and desperate for our children's approval and devotion.  I don't think my parents ever saw it that way.  They said jump, we said how high.  Not defending that, but there's too much enmeshment in this generation of parents.  We need to detach and send them on to live their lives.  They smell fear and it is a killer. 
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Pooh on August 21, 2011, 03:30:53 PM
Welcome Maxine.  I agree with everyone and although I think it's wonderful that you are having sitdowns with him, I think you are going to have to actually outline what you are willing to do.  You said you would fund him for 3 months if he moved out, so maybe tell him the money you were going to spend on that, is now his room and board for the next three months if he quits and wants to pursue the music career.  He has 3 months to find some work in that industry and find his own place.  After that, you will no longer fund him even if that means he has to take another job and do the music career on weekends.  If he wants to pursue a music degree, then he needs to apply for student loans and move into a dorm.  He will be responsible for paying them back, not you. 

I do kind of understand where he is feeling slighted that daughter gets to live there and he is getting the talks.  It would be very hard to know that my Mother told me I needed to move out but my sibling could stay?  Since you didn't explain your DDs situation, there may be more to that story than we know.  I'm not saying that he shouldn't move out, but sounds like DD needs the same rules. 

It sounds like you have been a very good Mother, but they need to learn to pay their own way and pursue their dreams without trying to make them your dreams.  Set some boundaries you can live with.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: SusieQ123 on August 21, 2011, 04:37:14 PM
Hi Maxine,

It seems like this is very common these days.  When my son was 18 he dropped out of college and quit his part time job.  One Friday he got very angry at me for nagging and he put all his clothes in his car and went to live with his friend and his friend's dad.  F's dd called me and said ds could stay there until Sunday evening, then he had to go (wise man).  I was not going to allow him to come home until he got a job.  He came home that day, but on the way home he got his old job back.  He was younger than your son, but he had to learn that freeloading was not an option.

Recently (when he was complaining about my mothering) he mentioned that I wasn't very understanding when he was down and out without a good job after hs.  I said it didn't seem like he was down and out because he was sleeping till noon, partying at night and not looking very hard for a job. 

I think it's great when people want to follow their dreams, but they need to be responsible for themselves too if they're over 21.  I'm an artist and I'm following my dream and working hard to one day support myself with my work.  One reason I have a chance is that I recently wrote a book about my art through an established publisher.  If it wasn't for that I probably wouldn't even consider it.  I have a full-time day job and I pretty much work non-stop.

It would be a good idea to have him talk to some local musicians because in every small and large city there are many extremely talented people who have day jobs and play the local bar circuit on the weekends.  He needs someone to tell him the truth.  It's a hard life.

Good luck.  I think this is the hardest part of being a parent.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: sesamejane on August 21, 2011, 07:59:07 PM
Gosh how we get ourselves into these pickles!! Really.  It starts quite innocently and before you know it, you have a mess on your hands.  I sure know about that - making messes.  But truth is, that is the point of parenting right?  Growing people who are able to take care of themselves.  I realize the economy is bad, but even so, struggle is very motivating especially for young people.  As folks get older, and more set in their ways, or more addicted to bad habits, life gets a lot harder.  Better for the kids to suffer the struggle when they are young then when they are older.

I mean they have to fly from the nest sometime, right?  And if they don't, sometimes a little push helps.

Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Sassy on August 22, 2011, 08:44:03 AM
My suggestion is instead of sitting down a 23 year old man and telling him his dream of career in music is a bad idea, or planning his trips overseas for him, you allow him to come to his own conclusions.  That also includes his conclusions of how much rent he is going to pay, what utilties he wants to purchase (such as cell phones, cable TV and internet) and so forth. 

He won't be able to quit working when his rent is actually due, instead of being paid for him.   Supporting a grown man who is not in a college program at this age, is enabling him to become self-indulgent at the cost of being self-supportive.  In other words, his isn't being done any favors anymore.  30 or 60 days notice that it's time to move out sounds like a wonderful gift.


Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Pen on August 22, 2011, 07:41:55 PM
Has he had any counseling? You mentioned depression, shyness and low-self-esteem. Does he need some help? Not that he shouldn't be required to pay rent and be responsible, but he may need a little help while he finds his footing. People bloom when they're ready, not necessarily when most of their peers do.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on August 23, 2011, 09:56:18 AM
Thanks Pam  & Keys girl. My daughter has thankfully just found a full time job and although she is stilling living at home she does a lot around the house plus food shopping, cooking etc. When she starts her job she is going to pay rent and then if her job looks secure she will want to move out. It is exceptionally tough out there particularly for 18-25yr olds.

Crystal ball you are right and I do want to reclaim my lice. I have done my bit. Draining is a good word, I really do feel that I have been put through a ringer!

Begonia, Thank you for your heartfelt advice. I am sorry that your "children" have not stepped up to the mark and been there for you.Do they have kids of their own? It is said that you only appreciate your parents when you have your own children! Yes we all want to be perfect parents, great role models, devoted and caring etc. but we are only human

IMPORTANT UPDATE -WHILST WRITING THIS I HAVE HEARD THAT SON HAS ACTUALLY QUIT !
Will I have to change the title now?

There is going to be a fun evening ahead!
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on August 23, 2011, 10:11:30 AM
sorry didnt proof read   meant "life" not "lice!!!!

Not sure now whether to let things sink in for24 hours before our serious chat or strike while the iron is hot . I feel that we should givehim a brief breathing space and more importantly his dad will have to gather his thoughts to be calm rather than hit the roof.

I think my son has lost the plot but maybe he hated the job so much the "music" route is just a convenient way out as he doesnt really know what he wants.  Well this will be a great learning curve for him. He has always been an acheiver and quite driven so maybe something good will come out of this.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: FAFE on August 23, 2011, 12:08:52 PM
I'm sorry, but I cannot imagine anybody quitting a good job in this economy.  Surely he could have worked on his music at night and weekends.  Nashville (and a lots of other places) is full of struggling musicians.  (Don't know what his kind of music is but not everyone is a success story.)  I hope you can make him understand that he is gonna have to "man up" and go forth with whatever he can make out of his new decision.

Hugs to you.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Belle on August 23, 2011, 12:18:57 PM
I'm with Sassy - I think he needs to draw his own conclusions.  Young adults especially (we've all been there), simply won't listen to what others have to say about their decisions, learn from otherss mistakes...they have to learn it on their own.  I can't tell you how many times I've heard my little sister say "its MY life, let me make my OWN mistakes!"  That's young person speak for:  I know this probably isn't a good decision, but its what I want to do and I'm an adult so you can't stop me.  My children aren't old enough for me to truly know what this is like, but I have siblings that are much younger than me and I've been through a little of this, and my parents have definitely been through the brunt of it.  You hate to watch them do it, you want to just wrap them in a sweet little bubble....but you can't.

What is that saying....

Give a man a fish and he'll be back for more in an hour.
Teach a man to cast a net and he'll never be hungry. 



   
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Ross99 on August 23, 2011, 02:51:01 PM
Ok, maybe this is another topic, if so please move it. But...I am appalled by the expectations of adult children who still expect Mommy and Daddy to foot the bill. Where did this come from?? I'm not talking about parents who make a freely given offer and children gratefully accept. I'm referring to the "children" who EXPECT and take for granted what their parents have WORKED for and are at an age that any given funds will not be made up. I mean really people. When does it end? DH and I knew we were considered adults and on our own when we got married. We knew not to ask and we didn't go off in a corner and pout about it or write them off.
Our son asked for yet another loan a number of years ago...when he was still talking to us. He wanted $5,000.00. We had no business making the loan, but decided to if we reached a written repayment plan. Result? Cold distance and no...we didn't give them the loan. We are not the Bank of England.
So that's my rant. I feel better anyway ;-}
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: luise.volta on August 23, 2011, 03:39:54 PM
That's what I did. Set up a payment plan and no more loans unless it was paid in full according to contract. If not, no more loans. As I have said here before...my kids then did that with their kids! :-)
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Doe on August 24, 2011, 07:07:47 AM
Hi Maxine-
I'm on the side of allowing your son to become a man by withdrawing your support. If he needs to be fed and needs a place to sleep, by all means help him out but beyond that, he needs to provide for himself.  By age 23, a person could have had kids, fought wars, started businesses, or done a whole world of things.  It's time for him to jump into the game of life on his own!  (JMHO)
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Ruth on August 24, 2011, 08:17:04 AM
I don't want to hijack this thread, I think its relevant but please move it if I'm out of line I'm so sorry don't mean to be.  Today I got a note from DD that she wants to proceed and close the deal on the business.  I appreciate Luise's advice on setting up a payment schedule and think I should also list myself as default owner if the deal closes.  I feel backed to the wall on this one, if I pull out I am losing an opportunity to redeem myself somewhat as a Mom and over the years I've prayed for opportunities to make restitution to my children in a healthy way for not taking as good care of them as I should have.  Please don't feel the need to soothe, I know myself and my strengths and failures.  But even in spite of this, I'm not emotionally caught up in it.  The fact is that this business is very under priced.  It was never advertised and it is being offered for less than half its worth.  But a little different from you son wanting to leave a rather secure job and go into a romantic career (which there is nothing wrong with if he can budget his life to make it work) DD is leaving a playful froo froo-ie job to go into a demanding workplace.  Her hours will double.  But her income will also more than double if she is conscientious.  However, I just want to do the right thing, a lot is at stake.   DD was raised in this type of business, so she knows the work involved to make it successful, it isn't an idealistic venture and she must get her income up in order to become independent.  I can't ask you ladies to make a call on this for me, as you only can read a few lines and our lives are much more complex than this, as I know you are aware with your son wanting to go into the music business.  I feel a lot of sympathy and ability to understand as you also have son/daughter and I think a similar history as myself.   The only thing I do know, is that after I make the call I'm not going to look back and remonstrate with myself. 
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Pen on August 24, 2011, 08:50:53 AM
I'm all for redemption, and it sounds as if you are being cautious about your involvement. Good luck to you, I hope it all works out.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Begonia on August 24, 2011, 09:05:36 AM
Good luck on these tough decisions with adult children and their work.  I usually try to see how my gut feels.  Am I at ease?  Am I in my sound business mind?  How am I sleeping at night?  What would a financial expert outsider say?  Are there other options I have not considered besides either this or that?  Is there a fair compromise that has not occurred to us?  Is there someone who is impartial who would hear our concerns and help with the right way to proceed?  Once the evidence on both sides is collected it is easier to take the emotional ties out of it, IMHO.  But every situation is very different and all we can do is our best approximation of what we hope will succeed. 
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on August 25, 2011, 02:04:45 AM
Well as mentioned before DS has now left his job and it is day 2 of him being at home. We have decided that we are going to give him a short while to sort himself out before insisting he moves out or pays rent. But he has to live by the house rules, do his own cleaning, cooking shopping etc and general chores around the house.

Did think that he would revert to a teenager and sleep to midday but must admit that he has not done that yet. He does appear to more relaxed since he left and has said that although in some ways he liked the job he just could not take the pressure of all the exams. So maybe after a few months of rejection in the music  world he will get it out of his system and then look for a job that does not have the pressure of exams. Will let all you kind folks know what happens next but I think that the best way I can deal with this is not to get involved on any level and just step back.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Pooh on August 25, 2011, 06:23:44 AM
I do hope it works out for you Maxine.  Just please be vigilant about having some boundaries.  Things can drag on and on until a year goes by before you know it.  I'm sure he was having a tough time with the exams, but we all know, every job has stress.  It doesn't matter if you flip hamburgers or are a Doctor, life is full of stress and you have to learn to deal with it.

I think you need to do what you are comfortable with and if sitting back for a little bit and watching to see which direction he takes makes YOU less stressed, then you made the right decision.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Sassy on August 25, 2011, 10:33:15 AM
QuoteWe have decided that we are going to give him a short while to sort himself out before insisting he moves out or pays rent. But he has to live by the house rules, do his own cleaning, cooking shopping etc and general chores around the house.

I agree that charging a grown man rent to live somewhere is a great idea. 
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: luise.volta on August 25, 2011, 11:12:34 AM
And once you define "a short time"...stick to it!
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on August 27, 2011, 04:25:43 PM
I  have had a bit of time to question why I have got so upset at my son's actions and why am I losing so much sleep worrying over his future? Is it just guilt that I perhaps wasnt strict enough ? What if  he slips down the slippery slope of drugs drink etc?  Why Cant I just trust him? As I said earlier he has always been difficult and stubborn but bright and a high achiever. Maybe he will get this out of his system but I just get so worried thinking he will just waste away his time.

I am finding it hard to understand also why  he could not have looked for another job before leaving this one, it is so much easier to go from a job and also why he couldnt do his "music" on evenings and weekends.  I lie in bed at night with these questions going around and around my head and lack of sleep makes problems seem magnified.

I wish I had the strength to just say to myself - lay down a few rules then stop nagging, step back and let him get on with it and also perhaps believe in him.  Maybe he feels our dissaproval and he perhaps also feels emasculated.  I try and treat him and talk to him like an adult but when he behaves like a teenager it is difficult.  A lot of the time I cant bear to be in the same room as him because the minute he sees me he puts on this long face.

Am I over-reacting because of tiredness - advice would help thank you ladies.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: FAFE on August 27, 2011, 04:29:13 PM
Maxine, go and buy you a new sports convertible and let him do all the worrying.  (Not making light of the situation, but he should be doing that instead of you.  Hopefully, you will see, as some of us have, that it's just flat out up to them and not us.  Until you get there, here's a hug. 
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on August 27, 2011, 04:41:42 PM
FAFE you are right. I suppose at that age work/responsibilty/ pensions etc are meaningless.  I dont know about a convertible but I am sure I will think of something equally good 
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Doe on August 27, 2011, 05:18:13 PM
Maybe I missed this - does your son have a girlfriend?  Maybe he needs to get... not sure how to put this.
   
After my son got a steady girlfriend then wife, a particular tension went away and he started planning his future with her and I became less tied up with him.     Does that communicate?


Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Pen on August 27, 2011, 09:45:49 PM
"...a particular tension.."   How Jane Austen of you, lol. Love it!
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on August 27, 2011, 10:30:29 PM
Doe, how perceptive of you. I have been saying that for awhile now.  As it happens he has a "girl friend" ( I say that loosely) staying here at the moment.  Which has helped immensly but I think she is finding it hard to get through to him.  However I have found a distinct improvement in his behaviour when she is around so I can see the difference she is making.  That is why I am trying to not be around so much.
He has always had a problem with friends ( I hate using the word loner) but certainly not a group person and would never follow the herd at school. But he does tend to push people away. So often friends phoned for him to go out and 9/10 times he would refuse, so eventually most of them gave up.  I was so glad when he started working last year and he was up and out every day. He seemed to be getting on fine and even socialising and unfortunately now he is back home and I dread him being in every day. I know I am being selfish but I really want my life back. I am semi retired and have done my bit , this is now like it was when the kids were 15. I have had enough. I am not even talking about the money side of matters.

I would love to to just tell him to go and get on with his life but if I push him out and he has nowhere to go  that would be silly. It would be different if he was on drugs and he had had a couple of warnings. He actually has done nothing wrong except chucked in a perfectly good job.

I sometimes look at him larking about with his friend, laughing and having fun  and then I think OK maybe he is actually starting to really enjoy himself. But he still seems to have this Jekyll and hyde attitude. He is 23 and he shouldnt be here anymore, but maybe that is the problem he is scared of growing up.  I dont know anymore I am far too emotionally involved but how can I get away if he is around all the time.

I know I am not the only person with this problem, I have quite a few friends with sons still at home and they all say they should move out.  But if they are not working there is no way they can afford to.

Thank you for your advice , finding this website has been  such a life saver. It is wonderful to know there are so many supportive mothers out there willing to listen and give their help. I just dont feel so alone anymore.
Title: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: sesamejane on August 28, 2011, 07:50:33 AM
Maxine,
I had to ask two of my children to find another place to live  My odd, who had a learning difficulty, was quite a difficult teenager and a late-bloomer emotionally.  She was in and out until she was about 23.  It was a process getting her on her feet.  But it dawned on me at some point that the "process" was going to go on and on until I drew a firm boundary with her - "no you can't live here" - and she had to figure things out on her own.  She did some couch surfing for awhile, and then one day, literally, things fell into place for her. She found herself or something, and she has never looked back.  She resented me for a time for drawing the line, but she is able to fend for  herself and pursue her own interests. She loves music and started an "Indy" group, and they even made a CD.  She has a bf now, and they have just started college together that they are paying for by working part time and student loans.

She and I have other issues now that have to do with my ds, but I do not worry about her ability to function in the world.  They find their way if we let them.  After my ds finished college, he came home...and then stayed.  Again, after about 8 months, I said, "time to go" and he did.  He found a job teaching and again put his life together.  Stuff happened years later after he married that are quite tragic - but that is another story.

I know it is hard to exercise "tough love" with our kids, but sometimes it is in their own best interest.  I wouldn't have let me kids starve or anythign like that, but a taste of the real world can be a good teacher and needed reality check.

Good luck with it    :)
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Doe on August 28, 2011, 08:17:42 AM
Quote from: Pen on August 27, 2011, 09:45:49 PM
"...a particular tension.."   How Jane Austen of you, lol. Love it!

;D  Yeah, I didn't want to get kicked out of this forum!

Maxine, your son sounds a little like one of mine.  When the actual final departure came,  there was a big blowup (after a lot of build up) and I told him to find somewhere else to live, atypical for us.  It's as if he needed me to force him out.  It was difficult for me but after things resettled, we were able to build our adult-adult relationship. 

I'll bet at some point the solution will present itself to you.  Jump on it when it comes!
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on August 30, 2011, 01:58:52 PM
Yes doe, I have a feeling that will happen at one point soon.  Although things have been more relaxed around the house. He is getting the message that he has to help around the house and tomorrow he is actually going to cook dinner for all of us ( thats a 1st !).

We havent quite yet worked out what he is going to pay towards the household expenditure but he does know that if he goes to music college he will either have to get a partime job or delve into his savings.

I will keep you posted when there are developments
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Doe on August 30, 2011, 05:09:39 PM
It sounds like you're working this out!

BTW, I heard on the radio that about 46% of  young adults in Europe live at home with their parents.   
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: herbalescapes on September 02, 2011, 03:57:53 PM
I think you need to tell DS that he has to pay a hefty rent, pay his own music college and fund his own vacations because you have decided to fund your new BFF (herbalescapes) trip around the world.  I'm such a giver, I'm willing to let you send me on such a trip so you truly don't have the money for him and do need his hefty rent to put food on the table.

good luck.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Begonia on September 02, 2011, 06:57:50 PM
Maxine, you said:

Maybe he will get this out of his system but I just get so worried thinking he will just waste away his time.

If there is one thing I have learned about my AC is that they are opportunists.  My son was weaving a crooked path and we said he had to move out (he was in college).  He packed some stuff and left in a huff.  I was worried sick about him and what would happen to him.  My imagination was running rampant with all the horrible things he would do: drugs, get murdered, etc.  I was a wreck.  He would not answer calls, nobody could tell me where he was. 

Later, I found out that he was living just fine on the college campus, moving from one friend's dorm room to another and spending the rest of his time in the computer lab (he's a nerd). While I was thinking he was not capable, and might waste away his time he was having the time of his life.

It was the same story with my daughter.  Parents are the last to find out how capable their adult children are sometimes, because I was still thinking he was my child. 

Here is something funny (now).  One night when he was about 14 my son got very mad at me for something..who knows now what it even was???  He left the house.  It got dark and he didn't come home. He had a dog and the dog would not come inside, he kept pacing and whining.  In the pitch dark I took the flashlight and searched the woods behind our house, calling my son's name, imagining he had been kidnapped or had killed himself (mother drama) The dog kept sitting by our boat that was parked by the garage and would not come with me. After at least three hours of searching and the dog making noises by the boat, I looked up and there my son was, sitting in the boat, quiet as a mouse watching his crazy mother run in circles.   The little....stinker....And the dog was the wisest one of all....

In my experience my AC have been way more capable than I wanted to give them credit for.  And if you set a boundary you might see just how capable he is on his own, figuring out his own life without any help.  In my case I liked having my son around so part of that separation was really my problem as a mom.  Just a few thoughts on this. 
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: sesamejane on September 02, 2011, 10:14:48 PM
Begonia your post reminded me of something else. 

Let's not forget the influence of our dc's friends!  When I asked my daughter to leave, and worried, etc., she was having a fine time living with different friends and complaining to them about what a terrible person I was.  And of course they completely sympathized with her!! She was eating up the sympathy from them!  She was fine and her friend's were taking great care of her until she finally got her act together.  Maybe that's what happened. They requested that she pay her fair share...  ya think?
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on September 03, 2011, 07:20:33 AM
Here is a quick update since my last post.  DS seems much more relaxed and in a better frame of mind. We still dont exactly know what his plans are and if he really is going to music college but feel maybe he does not know himself. So we are giving him the space to think things through.  His GF is staying here at the moment and she seems to being having a good influence on him as I saw she was helping him update his CV.  So at the moment things are running smoother than I thought.

He does know that we are not going to fund him and that come end of september he has to contribute to all our outgoings. I am keeping my fingers crossed that stepping back and not nagging and making decisions for him will focus him on living in the real world and begin to grow up.

Begonia - You are so right we get into this mode of thinking our kids cant cope and actually they are much more capable than we give them credit for.

Hearbalescapes  - What a good idea, where do you fancy going?!!

I will post again when there is more news but in the meantime I am going to concentrate on MYSELF ( an about time too)!!
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Pen on September 03, 2011, 10:21:17 AM
Hear, hear!! GFY, Maxine.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on September 04, 2011, 04:07:00 AM
The thing that is worrying me at the moment is not what my son did by quitting his job but they way he did. Also I dont understand the reason he took such drastic action. He hasnt fully explained and I have had several reasons related to me, not sure which to bellieve !

well I am not going to knock myself out but sometimes I wish I could get into his head !
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: luise.volta on September 04, 2011, 11:10:08 AM
Don't try to make sense out of the senseless. We all have to learn that to move off of square one. We are right. It's nuts. And we get stuck there. It is our adult children's prerogative to learn by trial and error.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on September 04, 2011, 01:41:44 PM
Well I knew this was bound to happen - DS is now beginning to realise that he doesnt know what to do and has begun to pester me.

I have explained that as he managed to make the difficult decision to leave a well paid job, he is quite capable to decide what to do next!  I had to refrain from saying " you didnt listen to my advice before so why are you asking me now"

I think he feels he will just walk into another job, so when I told him he will probably have to work as an unpaid intern for 6 months he seemed a little surprised.  I really dont think he is living on the same planet!

Any advice would be welcome on how to handle him, or should I just keep out of his way?

Anyhow thinking of myself now I have just booked a weeks holiday in the sun  - cant wait !!
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: luise.volta on September 04, 2011, 02:32:11 PM
Congrates on the holiday! :-)

I wouldn't handle him. I would say that everything is his to handle.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: FAFE on September 04, 2011, 04:18:06 PM
I agree with Luise, let him do all the handling.  Let us know where your trip is and maybe we'll all meet you there!!!! 
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: sesamejane on September 04, 2011, 08:22:52 PM
Agreed! ;)
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Pooh on September 05, 2011, 08:15:39 AM
You did the absolute right thing.  It is his to figure out now!  Great job and I'm so glad you booked a vaca!  Good for you!
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on September 06, 2011, 03:24:43 PM
As each day goes by I find I have to look for ways to ignore my son's moods. I have tried very hard to be nonchalant when he becomes provocative and definitely won't be drawn in to arguments.

But why do we become so influenced by our offsprings moods. If he is unhappy why should I be unhappy? It is not a situation I like to be in but I am not sure of how to get out of it.

I am sure that we all get stuck in some mode of behaviour and it is just as hard for us to move on as it is for our kids .  Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: pam1 on September 06, 2011, 03:27:26 PM
Maxine, I think it has to do with DS living in the home.  Our homes are supposed to be safe havens so when it is invaded by negativity or roller coaster emotions, we are affected too.  Especially b/c you can't always get away from it. 
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Doe on September 06, 2011, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: maxine on September 06, 2011, 03:24:43 PM
But why do we become so influenced by our offsprings moods. If he is unhappy why should I be unhappy? It is not a situation I like to be in but I am not sure of how to get out of it.

One of my sons and I can practically read each others' thoughts.  I think of something and he'll call me with news about it.  You can imagine what it was like when he was still at home.  Once, he just laughed and said, "Mom, get out of my head!"

Does your son know that when he's unhappy you're unhappy?  He may not be aware of that connection you have toward him.   I had to tell my sons that when they were out of the house, I didn't have any trouble sleeping but if they were living at home and were out late, I just couldn't sleep.  They had no idea.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on September 09, 2011, 02:01:10 AM
Just a quick update on what is happening at home.   Well the atmosphere (TG) is much more relaxed and DS seems to be a lot happier in himself.  It appears as though he is going to do a 3month music course which is 3 days a week at he is now looking for a part time job.  So I must admit he is not sleeping in til lunchtime as I thought he would do.

With the new house rules, he is responsible for all his washing, cleaning shopping etc. and he is cooking us an evening meal once a week ( which is amazingly quite good)

Hopefully he will get this out of his system and eventually get another full time job but I suppose he has to find his way on his own.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: maxine on September 23, 2011, 09:28:23 AM
Just to let you know what is happening Chez nous.  DS just started at music college yesterday coming home with a long face and not speaking all evening!  He probably  has found that his course is not for him ( mostly 16-17 year olds).  I am definitely  not saying " I told you so". I believe he is now looking to change to evening classes which is what I suggested weeks ago before he quit his job.  It is so painful to watch them make these mistakes but I suppose that it is the only way he will learn
I believe that he is looking for a part time job as he has had a couple of phone calls and phone interviews.

Should I continue in the same mode by being pleasant but not getting involved ? It is so very hard particularly when you can see they want to have a good moan.

Roll on holiday time, cant wait ! will soon be lying on a beach soaking up the sun  !!
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Ruth on September 23, 2011, 09:34:19 AM
I just finished a novel by Pearl S Buck, can't think of the title, but it was about Chinese culture, and centered around her relationship with her son and his father's absenteeism.  The idea was fascinating about how mothers must allow their sons to become men.  She (the narrator) struggled to keep silent while her son found his path to manhood.   I would say nothing if I were you.  You are not in the role as his guiding light any more.   He is making the path to manhood, and that means he must feel empowered to make his own decisions and no longer feel he is relying on you for guidance, but the dance of the ages is to continue to do so as his mother without his knowledge at all!   If you could read this old book, it may help you.   My mind runs in first gear while my mouth goes in 5th, so I'll remember the title very shortly and post it.  We women must learn how to let our sons become men.  I think we've done a lot of harm by trying to steer them and insulate them far past the natural time frame.  Jewish boys become men at age 13.  Its something for us to rethink.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Sassy on September 23, 2011, 09:59:49 AM
He's 23 and electively not working.  With the new house rules, he has begun to wash his own clothes, clean his own mess, and cook a meal once a week.   At the end of September (now) he was scheduled to begin contributing to the outgoings.  You're paying his rent, buying his food, covering his internet, and heating and cooling him.  I don't know if you're providing a car, car insurance, or cell phone.  I don't know if you're paying his tuition.  I don't know if you're paying his Cobra or Health Insurance. 

The question was about if you should continue not getting involved.   His negative moods affect you negatively, perhaps since the long face is right there in the house.  If you think he seems depressed to the point you want to become more involved, and he has health insurance, then perhaps it would be helpful to suggest he find a professional to talk to.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Pooh on September 23, 2011, 11:41:28 AM
Quote from: maxine on September 23, 2011, 09:28:23 AM
Should I continue in the same mode by being pleasant but not getting involved ?

Absolutely!  You are doing great and he needs to figure this out.  If he wants to, he can come to you and ask for advice, but until then, stick to the rules you made and continue on. 
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: luise.volta on September 23, 2011, 12:06:33 PM
Stay away and let him find someone else to moan to. He will be less embarrassed and enjoy it more.
Title: Re: Son wanting to quit job
Post by: Doe on September 23, 2011, 04:07:44 PM
Agreed.  His happiness does not depend on what you do for him.  It lies in him - getting out and living his life.