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Problem Solving => Daughter in Law's or Son in Law's Parents => Topic started by: Pen on March 18, 2012, 10:47:33 PM

Title: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on March 18, 2012, 10:47:33 PM
I'm so sick and tired of hearing about DIL's FOO's vast wealth and extravagant spending habits I could scream. That's all.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: lancaster lady on March 19, 2012, 02:25:21 AM
Thing is Pen , what's behind all the glitz ? I always find these showy people are not the ones who show up when the stakes are down and you really need  them .  Housewives of Orange County spring to mind , how fake are they ? I would rather be surrounded by grounded people who I can rely on , your DS knows this . Just laugh at these fake people , they don't realise how silly they sound ...or probably look . Lol
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Scoop on March 19, 2012, 06:23:46 AM
But Pen - would you trade everything you are and everything you have to be DIL's Mom, to have everything she has and to be her?  I have to say that I've never met anyone in my life that I would trade places with.  That even if their "good" seems better than my "good", my "bad" is never as "bad" as theirs.

If you don't like something, change it.  If you can't change it, change the way you think about it.  Imagine having all of these things and STILL not being happy.  Imagine having all of this time with her DD and SIL and still wanting MORE.  The greed and the compulsion must eat her alive.  You wouldn't want to live like that.  It sounds like a miserable, insatiable existence.

Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: pam1 on March 19, 2012, 08:49:35 AM
Ugh, I can't stand when people talk like that, I would be irritated too.  And that's just it, maybe you're irritated rather than jealous?  From what I know of you Pen is that you don't value that stuff anyway, so IMO there's nothing for you to be jealous of.  I just think you're really, really irritated with hearing it.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pooh on March 19, 2012, 01:11:22 PM
Who's talking about it to you Pen?  DS or DIL?
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Barbie on March 19, 2012, 01:22:23 PM
Dear Pen,

Are you sure you are jealous of their wealth? After all, you know that they lack morals and integrity, why would you be jealous of anything they have obtained under those circumstances? That doesn't sound like you Pen.  I think you might be jealous of the relationship that your DS has with them and how he makes them feel important which he doesn't do with you. From my own experience, the fact that I feel as if my DS has traded his own family for DIL's FOO bothers me more than I can say, I would never trade places with them though. Recently DS has given me some validation which is all I needed to hear in order to feel better.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Ruth on March 19, 2012, 01:55:31 PM
If someone can come up with a way to make FEELINGS go away, I will sign up.  In my own experience, nothing much works here.  We feel the way we feel, but the real test is how we act on it.  If you will learn to be patient, time will take care of it Pen, because sooner or later people get down to the real business of life and for a lot of people, it may take a long time.  If you continue to be kind in the face of obnoxious, boring,  and insensitive communication, this is success.  I was able to learn to tolerate intolerable emotions by coming here to this website, and meeting so many other women who are also dealing with near identical situations.  However, the sidelines in my life are trickier.  There's isn't always someone to link up with who shares the struggle.  Lots of days I just grit my teeth, and try and get through it.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Beth 2011 on March 19, 2012, 03:13:31 PM
Hi Pen,

I don't know the whole story but I would guess that they have always behaved in this manner?  Usually, wealthy people do not draw much attention to themselves and you never would know that they are wealthy.  If they have to brag about it and tell everyone everything that doesn't say much about her family.  It sounds like you are pretty grounded Pen, just keep doing what you are doing.  Keep smiling  :)
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on March 19, 2012, 07:45:10 PM
Is it really jealousy? I doubt that because you just don't come across as wanting that. My guess is that you are bored to tears with it and the importance given to it when you know better...(and can't say anything.) Sending love...
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on March 19, 2012, 09:07:51 PM
Wow, thanks for all the replies!

LL, I agree. My friends & (some) family are real, true kindred spirits. We like to get out in nature, spend time in our studios painting, travel to non-touristy places, read stimulating books, etc. etc. I'd be bored to tears in DS's IL's shoes.

Scoop, how true. I do not want to be her. You are spot on, the word 'insatiable' fits perfectly. About changing anything, did you mean mention to DS/DIL that I no longer want to here this stuff? Not sure how to do that w/o sounding like I'm not interested in DIL or her FOO which would cause a lot of drama.

Pam, I'm irritated but also jealous. They have the resources to do so much good in the world and instead just buy more stuff or take another luxurious trip. Meanwhile, we cobble together bits and pieces so DDD's day program can have the supplies they need. I would love to experience having enough wealth so I didn't have to white-knuckle it if I heard the car make a funny noise or if DDD got sick & I had to take a day off work.

Pooh, DS & DIL both insert the info into casual conversations - "When they were in the Caribbean again last month..." or "MIL loves her new (insert name of expensive thingamabob) here." Neither of them openly brags about the IL's money but it's hard not to have it enter any discussion of them since there isn't much else to say. ILs don't have hobbies, charity work or any other interesting stuff going on.

Barbie, you're right, I am jealous of the relationship DS has with them. Wealth will always be a major attraction. I have also gotten validation from DS about how much he loves & honors us, which I treasure, but sometimes the whole thing gets to me.

Ruth, I understand. Just when I think I've got it covered something zaps me back into those feelings again. I agree, sometimes we just have to get through it.

Beth, the wealth is fairly recent. I haven't known these people very long & do not know them well since they have pretty much shunned us since the wedding so I don't know if they openly brag to outsiders about their situation, but I doubt it. And I too have known/been related to a few very wealthy people who would be shocked and amused by the IL's nouveau riche conspicuous consumption.

Luise, I'm sorry to say some of it probably is jealousy. There are a lot of ironic twists to the story that I can't get into here. But you're right, I don't want their life or (most of) their stuff! And, here's the real issue that came to me today in a blinding flash of insight, I don't want DS to want it either, lol!

Thanks again. I seem to have conquered the green-eyed monster for today; perhaps one day for good.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on March 19, 2012, 09:09:54 PM
Ah, but they have your son. I get it!
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: pam1 on March 20, 2012, 10:55:06 AM
Know what you mean, Pen.  Big Hugs.

(you can always go hop in my MILs 20 seater hot tub to get some luxury, heard she's still looking for people to soak with her!)  just kidding, just kidding!  I mean just kidding about the part about getting in with her.  She is still looking for soaking partners though.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: lancaster lady on March 20, 2012, 11:07:05 AM
Singing ''I don't care too much for money , money can't buy me love ''..... 8)
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Beth 2011 on March 20, 2012, 02:02:16 PM
Pen, you have raised DS to know right from wrong and what is and isn't important, what is fleeting in the blink of an eye and what lasts as long as we live.  I remind myself that my DS knows this too. 

Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pooh on March 22, 2012, 08:30:09 AM
I get it too Pen.  Hang in there and my take?  Since they can't talk about their ethics, morals, charity work, etc....all they have to discuss is what they are buying, traveling, wealth persay.  It's so not about you, it's about them.  That's all they are doing so that's all they can say about them. 
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on March 22, 2012, 09:04:50 AM
Thanks, Pooh. To help DIL feel more comfortable around us, I want to show DIL/DS I'm interested in her FOO. If I ask about the ILs, it's my responsibility to put whatever they tell me into perspective & let it go. It is about them, not me. My new mantra, lol.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: pam1 on March 23, 2012, 09:45:39 AM
Quote from: Pooh on March 22, 2012, 08:30:09 AM
I get it too Pen.  Hang in there and my take?  Since they can't talk about their ethics, morals, charity work, etc....all they have to discuss is what they are buying, traveling, wealth persay.  It's so not about you, it's about them.  That's all they are doing so that's all they can say about them.

Very, very true.  And that's what so said, they have nothing else of interest to say except all about material things.  How boring.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on March 24, 2012, 07:52:28 PM
No, it isn't going away after all.

I'm having a rough go. DS's ILs take up all of his/DIL's time. I'm feeling very hurt right now. It will be weeks before we can see DS/DIL and although they see each other daily, they are spending the entire weekend w/the ILs. Again. During the next few weeks there is a big event for one member of our family, but as usual it will rate a flyby after the fact, if anything, while DIL's FOO's life events get feted in grand style, constantly.

Oh, it sounds so petty & unimportant when I read what I've written! But it hurts deeply & I'm very, very jealous. Not a quality I'm proud of, but there it is.

And I miss my kid. A lot.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on March 24, 2012, 08:06:39 PM
I think sometimes we try to be how we're not. You're being how you are at the moment and it is both authentic and miserable. Someone has messed with your life. To not be how you are would probably have to stem from not caring...not your thing. Sending love...
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: pam1 on March 25, 2012, 01:57:06 PM
Pen, I know you rarely say anything to your DS but I think you can probably safely say to him that this event is important to you and see where it goes from there.  From what you've written about him I think he would listen to you.  It's not petty at all.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on March 25, 2012, 02:50:01 PM
Thanks Pam, I appreciate that. We'll have to wait & see.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pooh on March 27, 2012, 08:06:25 AM
Pen, jealousy is totally normal.  If anyone here says they have not felt it at one time or another in their life about something, well....I would have a hard time believing it.  Then top it off that this is someone you care deeply about and love, your own flesh and blood who you poured your heart and soul into...well geesh, of course it's normal to be jealous when the relationship is so one-sided.

We all have a days.  It's how we choose to handle it that is what's important.  You can't get stuck in it.  You feel it, you allow yourself a few minutes and then you count your blessings and use your mantra!  I've been chanting it for a couple of weeks, will do well and then bam, get all mad again.  We're human.  Big hugs Pen.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on March 27, 2012, 07:00:49 PM
Thanks, Pooh :) Big hugs back!
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: forever spring on April 12, 2012, 10:53:14 AM
Big hugs Pen for being so honest to yourself and in this space.
Those feelings that come to visit us are so strong and when they are upon us we just have to knuckle down and succumb to them - as long as it takes -.
You feel that you've lost your DS to all this 'false glitter'. I know that feeling also - and it makes you feel  so deserted.
But everything is not lost, life has a tendency to change and often for the better.
I do hope that the green eyed monster will subside and stay away for longer and longer until it's gone completely. Good luck  ;)
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on April 21, 2012, 07:44:45 AM
Please think of me today & send me strength to overcome my jealousy and feelings of rejection.

DS & DIL have accepted our invitation to dinner. We haven't seen them for months, so I went for it. It's hard to keep from predicting the future...I don't know for sure that I'll be compared to DIL's FOO, but I suspect it will be so since they will probably stop there on the way here. I don't know for sure that they will have forgotten my recent special life event, but since we've never been celebrated the way DIL's Ps have been celebrated, I'm not looking forward to anything. All of this is speculation based on the past, of course. I'm open to being pleasantly surprised, but I'm also realistic.

I'm really tired of saying "That's OK" when it isn't. At my age, it's ridiculous to still have hopes & dreams about these things. Time to let it go! I just don't know how.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: forever spring on April 21, 2012, 07:57:48 AM
Never let go of your hope and dreams. (remember' incy wincy spider' in the nursery rhyme! He knew best to keep on climbing up the water spout again and again!)
I'm thinking of you and hope that all will be well and you will have a good time together!  :)
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: lancaster lady on April 21, 2012, 08:11:46 AM
Dear Pen ,   don't you think its typical of men never to remember special occasions ? I'm sure he loves you dearly , just be as.charming as ever , and laugh a lot ......you'll be ok .....x
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on April 21, 2012, 08:15:40 AM
P - I think it may different for each of us because we are all so different from each other. We are the source of our expectations; that's where our power lies if we choose to initiate it. My concept of the origin of an expectation is: First we make it up...then we believe it and then we are at the effect of it. If we get attached to logic and justice that can further complicate things because for many of us, what we expect is totally within reason and if we believe in life being fair, we're doomed. We can get stuck there and usually self-pity isn't far behind. It's like looking at Niagara Falls and expecting it to flow upward. It ain't a'gonna happen and the more attached we become to that outcome the deeper the problem. Some of our kids for whatever reason choose a different direction. We can try to go with the flow, paste on smiles, keep our moths shut and pretend but/and it's still backward and will never work for most of us. How long we want to play the game (their game) is up to us. Mostly, they simply don't care and are probably relieved when we quit. If we hold on, grasp at straws and believe something is better than nothing it may work for a few of us. We can set aside self respect for the status quo and go for whatever crumbs are tossed our way. Each of us has to choose...and re-choose and re-choose if we hold on to our expectations. We made it up, with history and society behind us 100%...and we're the only ones that can give it up.  Sending love...
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on April 21, 2012, 11:23:17 PM
You know, I'm not sure my DS loves me dearly. This wasn't a good day for me. I feel the absorption into DIL's FOO is complete. We're just some odd folk he needs to check in with every now & then. I'm so sad.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: forever spring on April 22, 2012, 01:29:58 AM
Dearest Pen, I'm so sorry to hear this. That really hurts because you have all the memories of your DS as a child when his love was unconditional and the closeness complete. I was in the same situation last year when I thought I had lost my DS. He left the family meanwhile and blames some of the break-up on his then DW's FOO constant involvement. I'm not saying that mine is a good situation to be in and I wish I didn't have to face this. It just goes to show how things can change. I would never have thought to see DS on his own ever and now he is coming for a visit tomorrow.
Your DS may come back to you later. Maybe in DS's time of life with all the challenges life throws at him, he may not have the headspace to think of his own FOO. Your DS may be so secure of your unconditional love that he feels he can just let his DW's FOO take it all. It may not be forever. This is written IMHO only.
Sorry to hear about your pain. It goes deep.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on April 22, 2012, 06:55:31 AM
Thanks, FS. I'm sorry you had to go through this pain, too. Have a nice visit w/ your DS!
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on April 22, 2012, 07:39:59 AM
My take is that it's his best. He picked her for whatever reason and to make it work he is doing what he feels he needs to do. When that happens the present can outweigh the past. His childhood home, memories, lessons, loyalty and security from that time in his life are still there as part of him and he brings to the present as much of his younger self as he can. In addition, his present is different, makes new demands, offers new opportunities and is probably full of difficult choices that go with all of that. He may have consciously or unconsciously opted to let you and your needs go in the process, knowing that, at least, is "safe."

We can't figure out what's going on inside a relationship and those in it...from the outside. It's still DS's best and he just has to trust you to understand that and let him go. Your were "then" and this is "now." He may not have a clue how to put the whole thing together. What you are experiencing my reflect the fact that he has decided to walk away from the conflict and focus on the "until death" commitment he has selected. The lessons entailed are his and yours is probably to get that. Materialism, snobbery, superficiality, shortsightedness all rear their ugly heads as most of us mature. We do the best we can with them within the circumstances we find ourselves. This is his best. How can you back him, painful as that may be?
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Ruth on April 22, 2012, 08:29:14 AM
I encourage you, Pen, to keep thinking about that 'back of the tapestry'.  For now you just have to play the waiting game.  I once heard J Dobson describe adolescence as a time when the space shuttle is launched, and there is that 'dead space' while command center has to wait for communication, but eventually the ship does emerge and reestablish communication.  That period is extended far far past adolescence for many parents in our society today.  There is so much fluff out there to distract individuals and keep them too busy and too occupied to get in touch with the really important things in life, until maybe later on.  When the down times come for you, remind yourself of your blessings, first of all your child is alive.  many mothers visit gravesites.  In my community two weeks ago a family lost their 25 yr old son to drug o/d, and eleven months prior to that their 32 yr old son was killed in a car accident.  I just couldn't even swallow this, it was so unthinkable.  Therefore when I am down, I remind myself that my DS is alive, and count down the things I have to be grateful for.  the rest of the cares you have to roll over, and allow your demeanor, your integrity, your simplicity, your generosity, to communicate and remind your DS who you are, and what a unique and irreplaceable role you have played in his life.  He will only have one mother, only one in this lifetime.  As he grows older, he will have flashbacks of the moments of tenderness you attended to him, little happy times that will grow more endearing as he ages, and especially as he begins to see them reflected back into the eyes of his own children.  If you have launched forth a son into the world, who is strong enough and capable enough to move on without you, you have been a very successful DM.  It is time to love yourself and thrive now in that role, and never allow a moment of the sensations of loss to cloud over your days.  Counterfeit pleasures aren't part of who you are, you have chosen to value the things in life that really matter.  This is your day, and your victory, my friend.  You can now learn the joys of loving the adult child you have raised, and let time move him back to seeing you now as the woman he may most admire in the world.  Celebrate this time and enjoy your occasion!
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on April 22, 2012, 10:14:47 AM
Ruth, I hope my DS will have those nice flashbacks when he's raising DC of his own. Right now DIL & her FOO are capitalizing on the situation and eroding every good thing we did for our kids, who we are, our values, our interests, our hard work & sacrifices, our love for our AC, etc. etc. DS/DIL's visit felt like a gauntlet. Everything I said was laughed at, ridiculed or ignored. By the time they left (without hugs or happy bday wishes) I had become mute & was completely wrung out. Today I'm trying to regroup, pick up the pieces of my self-esteem & move on.

What's funny is that DS set me up to expect something different. When will I learn??? I feel like the world's biggest, oldest, whiney crybaby.

I'm so very grateful for this site  :-* Thank you all.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Ruth on April 22, 2012, 10:53:05 AM
I am sorry.  I am grieving with you.  These are profound wounds, and I've experienced them also.  When you feel up to it, please write a detailed description of what was done and said during the evening, and let us help you sort it out. 
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on April 22, 2012, 11:21:07 AM
It's all still there, Pen. They can't erode away memories and training. DS may have set them aside but/and they're there. You aren't whiny, you're facing being left behind through no fault of your own and having to go an without DS. The injustice and the pain don't change that eventual outcome. We are all here for you and we have all faced unimaginable loss, that's what brought us together. We all deal with it in our own way...and...we all need support and understanding. The pain will lessen when you let go. It will continue and increase as long as you focus on your unfulfilled expectations. No one can set you up unless you let them. Sending love...
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Ruth on April 22, 2012, 12:10:28 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on April 22, 2012, 11:21:07 AM
It's all still there, Pen. They can't erode away memories and training. DS may have set them aside but/and they're there. You aren't whiny, you're facing being left behind through no fault of your own and having to go an without DS. The injustice and the pain don't change that eventual outcome. We are all here for you and we have all faced unimaginable loss, that's what brought us together. We all deal with it in our own way...and...we all need support and understanding. The pain will lessen when you let go. It will continue and increase as long as you focus on your unfulfilled expectations. No one can set you up unless you let them. Sending love...

Thank you Luise.  I also needed to hear this today.  I remind myself your saying, what we focus on grows.  I learn so much from you.  Thank you for your kindness and wisdom.

Pen, if you already had it, you would not have been having to wait for it, there would have been no problem and you wouldn't be here.  This is why we are all here, we are all trying to survive and learn to live with issues in our lives that are so painful we could not stand it, so we support each other.

I have had to live the past 30 years with receiving virtually nothing from my DS, Pen.  There's not a single time I can ever remember that he ran to me and put his arms around me, when a child, and said I love you Mama.  Not once did he ever reach out to me, and show me tenderness or show me that he loved or appreciated me.  So many times, the only thing he would ever say to me was, 'you never did anything for me'.  And I had done so much.  I had poured myself out to try and give him life and happiness.  I tried to fix everything, but nothing I did made any difference.  He didn't care.  When he was leaving for boot camp, he didn't even come to tell me goodbye, I drove a long distance at the 11th hour so I could tell him I loved him, and tell him goodbye.  He was gone ten years, and I only saw him four times during those ten years, and he never gave me one really kind or loving word.  I just kept waiting.  I kept praying for him.  He left me in tears, over and over again, never flinching or showing any sign that he cared whether I lived or died.  I never ever got a b/d card, a Christmas card, M/D card, not a phone call when he knew I was in hospital, nothing.  I had to run on fumes, because there was no place to take my love and my heartbreak.  I've come a long way.

This past Easter, I got to spend one really good hour with my DS.  He sat beside me at the dinner table, and made some little funny remarks, and for the first time in over 30 years, I did not feel hostility.  To other mothers, this would have seemed such a small thing, but it was the world to me.  It was enough to help me go on.  For the first time in his life, I believe he knows I love him, and in his own way, I believe he cares for me, and respects me.

I hope you will comfort yourself in knowing that some times, for some of us, its a long haul, and we have to be strong or we won't make it.  I don't worry about the time any more, I used to feel that the days and years were slipping away, I worried about it all the time.  Not any more.  I leave these details to God, and I live in the moment.  I am confident that God will make it all right at some point. 

We love you and are here with you.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: constantmargaret on April 22, 2012, 12:22:45 PM
Happy Birthday Pen. (Hug)

After a visit like that, do you ever wonder if you were better off not seeing them? I do.

I'm sorry I'm not able to offer consolation or wisdom. I can only say I understand. I know why you're hurt. You're not a big old whiny crybaby. You're a woman with a sensitive heart whose DS is clueless. He has no idea.

But I know how it feels to know in advance that a visit or event is going to be painful, awkward, uncomfortable and frustrating, but wanting contact so much that you're willing to endure it. You're willing not only to put yourself through that, but to suffer the mental hangover the next day, feeling beat up and broken, wishing you could just sleep it off and wake up feeling better.

It's too bad that in leaving ourselves open to being pleasantly surprised, we also leave our white underbelly exposed. The alternative is to be cautiously guarded. Also not a pleasant way to deal with family.

I get it. And I'm sorry.







Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: lancaster lady on April 22, 2012, 01:23:31 PM
dear Pen .....

Let that be the last !
No more , don't invite them again .why build yourself up , just to crash and burn .
You deserve better , how dare they .
C'mon Pen , time to fight back and leave them behind , no one should be treated that way , what are
you a circus clown ?
Sending you some iron pills to build up your strength for when you kick them into touch !
Please celebrate your birthday another day , when you are stronger and happier ......sending hugs my friend .
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: forever spring on April 22, 2012, 10:09:11 PM
Pen, again so sorry to hear about your pain. I think, I know how you feel. You have all reason to be hurt by such treatment. They inflicted an injury. The open wound will take time to heal, but heal it will!

Luise your words are a great consolation because you speak them from you heart and they reach our hearts. They are like a balm. It must take some emotional energy for you to write down your thoughts and share them. Thank you for your commitment to your forum.

Ruth, thank you for your willingness to write details about your son and how he's treated you for such a long time and how the little flicker of hope has made a lot the difference for your outlook of the future. At least there is something to built upon. Your trust in God will be a solace to you and give you strength.
LL I agree with your comment. Sometimes it's good to be angry to be able to work through our pain.

You know this anyway, Pen, but all that has happened to you is not your fault. You and your DH have done well and provided your son with the tools for life. You have no more say in how he uses these tools. That applies to all of us. As Luise said, we don't know why they chose wives so different in every aspect of life from us. When this happens we can only win by trying to preserve our integrity and personality. Re-focus if only for a short time each day in the hope that these moments will get longer and longer and longer - until the pain subsides and you can move on properly. I am thinking of you ...
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on April 23, 2012, 10:36:51 AM
I will not sit in my own home and be laughed at, critcized or ignored - especially on a day that was supposed to be a celebration. I will no longer sit passively while DS/DIL say mean things about me or my friends and relatives. If, and that's a big if, we make plans to visit in the future, I will set my boundaries beforehand. A cut off will only hurt my DH, DD & I, but it may come to that.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: lancaster lady on April 23, 2012, 11:07:21 AM
Amen ............Love you Pen .......x
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Rose799 on April 23, 2012, 08:35:44 PM
GFU, Pen.  I came to that realization last Christmas, after dd lead me to believe she wanted to spend time with us.  They were a no-show till around 5.  We normally eat around 1 so they can rush on over to sil's FOO.  We had riding toys for the gc, but it was too dark for them to play outside.  They're still in the attic, waiting on the day they return.  I hadn't seen the gc in 2 mos. until recently when I helped to throw dd's baby shower.  Now I've been kicked back to the curb.  I'm having a tough time, trying to prepare myself for what's to come when the baby arrives in a couple of weeks.  It gets harder when gc enter the scene.  I'm glad to hear you've found your footing... 
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on April 24, 2012, 12:06:23 AM
I feel for you, Rose. So sorry you're having a rough time. What could be a time of joyous anticipation becomes something different in these circumstances. You are a good mom & GM through it all. As brave as I sound now with my newfound backbone, I know it'll be a whole other thing when/if GC come along.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on April 24, 2012, 06:36:17 AM
FS - Thanks you for your thank you.  :)
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Rose799 on April 24, 2012, 09:54:46 AM
Quote from: Pen on April 24, 2012, 12:06:23 AM
I feel for you, Rose. So sorry you're having a rough time. What could be a time of joyous anticipation becomes something different in these circumstances. You are a good mom & GM through it all. As brave as I sound now with my newfound backbone, I know it'll be a whole other thing when/if GC come along.

You'll be amazed how strong a back bone can be when put to enough tests.  I'll be all right once this new gc arrives safe & sound.   :)
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: pam1 on April 24, 2012, 11:25:18 AM
Quote from: Pen on April 23, 2012, 10:36:51 AM
I will not sit in my own home and be laughed at, critcized or ignored - especially on a day that was supposed to be a celebration. I will no longer sit passively while DS/DIL say mean things about me or my friends and relatives. If, and that's a big if, we make plans to visit in the future, I will set my boundaries beforehand. A cut off will only hurt my DH, DD & I, but it may come to that.

Good for you, Pen!  You have to do what's best for you, you have been amazingly strong throughout all this.  I'm glad to see you sticking up for yourself.

And btw, did someone say it was your birthday???  Happy Birthday! 
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: lancaster lady on April 25, 2012, 02:34:13 PM
Dear Pen :

Here is a thought for you to ponder ,
You know how I was ignored in favour of my DIL FOO when my GD was born , and how at every occasion when
my DIL was living here she went off to visit her DM.
Of how much she loved her DM and couldn't wait to live near her etc. etc. etc.
It now transpires that her Dear Mom doesn't want to look after my GD ,and hardly ever does anything with her .
Never shows her any affection or interest at all . My DS last time he visited let it slip that they never have any alone
time . I asked if his MIL or SIL's ever babysat , his answer was a big no , and that his DW was always arguing the fact
that they show no interest in my GD at all . They live within walking distance .
I find this very hard to take in when my DIL's FOO was so special , and she talked them up at every moment she could .

So after all my agonising months of thinking I was desperately missing out on my GD , her other GM was getting all
the attention whilst not really wanting it . How strange not to want to spend time with your GD .
Now I'm thinking that's why my DIL sang their praises so much to cover their disinterest .

I know this is not the case with your DS Pen , but it just shows how we don't know what goes on in other
families , and a lot of the time we are guessing what is actually happening .
I hope their behaviour is just a smokescreen for what lies beneath , and your DS comes to his senses .
However bad behaviour should not be tolerated under any circumstances and hopefully things will change for the
better .
I hope you are feeling stronger and are able to treat yourself for your birthday ....it's a pity cupcakes do not
travel well ....I make a mean blueberry cheescake cupcake .... :D
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Ruth on April 25, 2012, 03:11:47 PM
that was an excellent post, Lancaster Lady.  Myself, these days I often feel I shouldn't even be let out of the house.  There just so many times I misinterpret the actions of my loved ones, and jump to conclusions.  sometimes I just wonder will I ever learn to slow down, and form a conclusion much later in the game.  Most of the time, I'm  positive that we're either mistaken, or we're over into the extreme.  And especially when you have a sore spot, at that time every thing in your eyes seems relevant to that painful spot, its almost impossible to be objective.  It can help a lot to bounce things off of a witness, if there was one, who's not so sick of the topic that he glazes over and lapses into a coma every time you touch on it (i.e. my DH).  Pen, it might be a beneficial exercise if you could replay that evening in your mind, from the pretend standpoint of yourself as the cock of the walk, DS on your doorstep every day, and you wishing he and DIL would just find someone else to spend a little of their time and attention with.  I wonder if their clueless comments would sound more benign, and you may think of them as annoying, but not really biting.  I use this kind of exercise a lot to help me reexamine my perspective.  It doesn't always help, but sometimes it does.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on April 25, 2012, 10:49:04 PM
How true, LL & Ruth. I hear one version of DIL's FOO from DIL & another from DS.

Thanks for the different perspectives, they are definitely worth exploring. If we hadn't already been shunned I probably wouldn't be so wary or sensitive.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on April 26, 2012, 07:28:30 AM
As I examine this weird day further, I'm still confused.

The whole thing started with a phone call from DS saying he wanted to come over (I assumed to make up for my missed "big" bday, since it was during the missed-bday apology call from DS) & they'd be available in a week or two. I then checked my calendar & texted an invitation for a specific date to both DS & DIL. DS, but not DIL, responded that they would be here. That's what confused me...since he started the whole thing, why the rude, unthinking behavior? Maybe DIL wasn't keen on coming over but didn't want DS to come alone so they fought on the drive over? But that doesn't explain not acknowledging my milestone bday other than to ask sarcastically, "So how does it feel to be 60?." DIL then chimed in that she doesn't want to get old (she has previously stated she hates old people.) DS followed with, "DIL is going to shoot herself when she turns 40." I said, "Well, that's a drastic solution to something that happens to all of us. You'll miss out on a lot of great things."   

DS has always done something for our bdays, this was the first one not acknowledged. We do plenty for them on their special days, equal $ spent on each AC.

It's not about a gift, a card or even verbal happy bday wishes, it's about what the behavior might represent for the long haul. What in the world does it mean? How am I to react to it? Does it mean they want no further celebrations on their own bdays? If I let it go am I essentially giving my consent to be treated that way? If I bring it up am I making a bigger deal out of it than is warranted? Further complicating matters is that DIL made a point of mentioning that her DM's  big number bday was the next day (after our get-together.) Even that comment didn't clue DS in.

Laying low until I can get a grasp on it all.....
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: pam1 on April 26, 2012, 08:18:08 AM
Pen, I'm just as confused as you are.  Their behavior makes no sense.  The only thing I can think of is that they are having some kind of personal problems and it's hard for people with personal problems to keep up with the people around them.  It's probably not about you at all -- even though their behavior was rude to you.

I'm kind of in a similar situation where I really don't know what to do about some of the birthdays in DHs FOO.  Since I don't celebrate the way his FOO typically does (the all day long extravanganza's I've posted about before) I think they assume I just don't celebrate and then don't even give a basic acknowledgment to me.  It does leave me feeling strange because I don't think it's that hard of a situation for them to understand our differences but they go to extremes and assume strange things (that I hate my birthday just because I don't celebrate it exactly as they do.)  I wonder if I should even acknowledge any of theirs anymore, even though I do know what they like.  But I feel dishonest about it because it's only me doing for them, yet they won't acknowledge my likes and needs. 

I feel like you do, just weird about it all and really, there's not much good cause.  Why isn't it simple for some people to listen to others, be kind and reasonable?  lol
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Scoop on April 26, 2012, 08:23:58 AM
Pen, can you talk to your DS about it?  Ask him what's going on.  Tell him that it's not like him to blow off your birthday, especially not a big one.  Tell him that it hurt your feelings.

(Do you think that maybe he told DIL it was no big deal, because he didn't want to fete his MIL's similar b-day?)

Tell him that you don't know what this means, does this mean that he doesn't want his and DIL's birthdays celebrated?  Ask him and see what he says.

I'm putting my money 50/50 on Their OWN Personal Problems and Aw Geez, Mom Won't Mind.

I'm also willing to put a tenner down on the fact that he hasn't spent 1/100th the time thinking about all of this as you have. 
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on April 26, 2012, 08:34:02 AM
My take: It may not mean anything. We look for sense in the senseless. It may not matter what you accept or don't accept. By continuing to process it and examine it more closely it may just become bigger more confounding because there is no logic. The incident was unbearably painful and you may just be giving it the power to continue to hurt you indefinitely. They are going to be how they are and do what they do. Expect that, beloved friend.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Ruth on April 26, 2012, 08:45:28 AM
I've heard both of my a/c at different times make similar disparaging remarks about getting old.  I've been frankly shocked lately reading some other forums how common this is, and how extreme.  Oh how they will change their tune with time has dulled their edges, their power has turned to impotence,  and their own a&! is in a sling.  I am probably very conditioned to outrageous behavior on the part of family members, as its been my life experience almost across the board, but I just ignore it and move on, however your response was I thought perfect, Pen.  When I am doing what you're doing right now (bearing down with all your mental resources trying to make sense of a situation that you don't have enough information to resolve ) my DH intercepts, gets very irritated, and tells me that its something I'm not going to figure out because its all about 'them', and not about 'me.'  Sometimes I take that well, and other times I still want him to listen patiently and compassionately to me, but by now I know he's worn out with the topic and has nothing else to give.

Your DS did make a hilarious remark and I couldn't hardly stifle a laugh!  I just don't basically get much of anything from my a/c, Pen, and so I don't expect much for my 60'th, as I said its just been the pattern of my life and I've come to terms with it.  I look at it realistically most of the time now.  When your hopes die out, so does the suffering.   I don't have much strength left to fight it... too many years of futility.  I'm happy for others families who have better experiences and am able -thanks be to God -to no longer suffer in envy about it, its just the hand I got dealt.  I believe its probably harder for someone like you who once had a very fulfilling relationship with DS.  But you have to accept now, that he's joined at the hip with someone else, someone silly, and he chooses to follow her lead.  It is very exhausting emotionally for the person who's functioning on the higher level.  You're  not going to win this one, Pen, with your loving integrity and goodness, not in the short run.   But there just can't be any option I can find other than detachment and acceptance.

just as a p.s., I just read Luise's post and her first five words condensed all my rambling.  Get up, get dressed, and forget it, Pen,  you can suck it up in the Dyson and toss in out in the compost pile.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on April 26, 2012, 08:52:56 AM
AGE: You guys must know how I smile when the fear of aging comes up... ;)
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: forever spring on April 26, 2012, 09:49:03 AM
Quote from: pam1 on April 26, 2012, 08:18:08 AM
Pen, I'm just as confused as you are.  Their behavior makes no sense.  The only thing I can think of is that they are having some kind of personal problems and it's hard for people with personal problems to keep up with the people around them.  It's probably not about you at all -- even though their behavior was rude to you.

This is just what happened in my case. DS and exDIL had grave personal problems and their behaviour towards us was not about us at all. We know that now.
Still difficult to take when it happens to you. Happy 60th, Pen. lLfe begins at 60 or is that 85, Luise?
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on April 26, 2012, 10:10:43 AM
Life began for me at 60! I retired and hit the road, alone, in my ancient motorhome on $495 a month and no savings and it has been a marvelous adventure!  8)
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: lancaster lady on April 26, 2012, 10:13:08 AM
We plan to do just that , a couple more years should do it , we have to wait for the market to recover
to sell up .....then watch my dust !  lol
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on April 26, 2012, 10:20:01 AM
Good for you! I had nothing to sell, so that made it simpler. LOL! (Oops! I think we just hijacked Pen's thread.)
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: lancaster lady on April 26, 2012, 10:21:55 AM
sorry Pen , you know we love you .... ;)
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on April 26, 2012, 01:14:33 PM
No worries, I was about to hijack my own thread, lol. I mean, how much more wallowing can a woman do??

Thanks for all the replies and advice. You all are right on. Scoop, I know I should grow a pair and simply ask DS what's going on! I've been trying to come up with a way to approach it that doesn't come across as whiney, needy, confrontational or plain old pathetic.

Be assured I am not letting this derail my activities and growth. The old Pen would have felt like going back to bed w/a carton of Ben & Jerry's and a trashy magazine. The new, improved Pen is out & about, taking care of business, lol.

I fear this weirdness will spill over to DDD's relationship w/her DB. She doesn't understand this stuff, & she'll have no one but him eventually (although we've made it clear that DS won't be responsible for her care/finances.) My heart breaks for her; she would love to see DS & DIL more often, remembers everyone's bdays, loves holidays, etc. She gets tired of hanging out w/her fuddy-duddy Ps. It would be great if DS/DIL would take her on an outing every now & then like they do DIL's sib, but we certainly don't expect them to do so.
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on April 26, 2012, 01:38:32 PM
My take: I think instead of asking DS for a private, one-on-one with you about the changes in your relationship...I would ask if he had any interest in doing that. He may not want to...and that's his right. Your points are so well taken where DDD is concerned and he may or may not be willing to consider them. It looks to me like having DS be how he is is still the major issue at the bottom of your well-founded anguish. He may not have addressed these issues head on but he has sent endless "messages"...his heartless contempt on your birthday only being the most recent. Sending love...

Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Ruth on April 26, 2012, 01:45:31 PM
shoot.  the new me goes to bed with a carton of Bed and Jerry's
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on April 26, 2012, 01:59:32 PM
You guys have found a guy named Ben and one named Jerry that are delivered in cartons? And you go to bed with them?
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Ruth on April 26, 2012, 02:51:38 PM
I did a typo!   Oh I needed a good chuckle and I did it to myself!
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: luise.volta on April 26, 2012, 04:04:27 PM
That's hilarious! I can't bear to correct it. It's too funny!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: forever spring on April 26, 2012, 10:08:10 PM
The cheers to the new you, Pen! The occasional 'sinful hour' with a carton of Ben and Jerry's not to be missed either, stress is on occasional.
Seriously, I'm sorry for DDD who is missing out on contact with DB. He will in years to come regret all of this. I think Luise is right, put the ball in his court and ask him if he wants to talk, if not then it'll be his fault and you don't come over all whiny and needy.

Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pen on April 26, 2012, 10:38:00 PM
You guys are great. Love you all!
Title: Re: Won't this awful jealousy go away??
Post by: Pooh on April 30, 2012, 08:29:48 AM
I'm sorry that I wasn't around to wish you the most wondermous, spectacular birthday wishes Pen! 

I'm sorry they acted that way....the jerks. 

My mean side?  I would have had a hard time not responding back, "Well then I know what to get her for her 40th birthday now.  Thanks!"