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Hi again!

Re relationships:  I think a close relationship is a close relationship.  She has different types of memories of their time together, but he was/is her heart and soul.  And a parent loves a child like no one else. I've often said - you don't even know love till you stare into the eyes of your newborn.  In a more general view - people get divorced all the time and are fine, but when someone loses a child, typically the parents are devastated forever. It's just different.

Re Nastiness - nope, nothing gives her that right.  And maybe she feels safe enough with you to just be raw emotion.  It's not kind, or right.  But usually these things stem from her own pain. Your story about being yelled back at - she clearly doesn't expect these things.  Perhaps she feels omitted?  Maybe she believes things should be done "a certain way" and it didn't happen and she's bitter?  Maybe she is very hurt that her son eloped?  Who knows. The point is that it's coming from somewhere. If she really cared about your weight or race, she probably wouldn't say anything. They're easy things for her to jab you with that can't be changed. 

There comes a time in every contentious relationship where you either have to sit down and decide to work through it, or give up and decide that that person is not worth having a relationship with.  And again - you can vision it as times you've probably done the same in a romantic relationship.  It takes a lot of work, but if two people want to work on it, it CAN be done.  It sounds like she feels very lonely, and that may give you an easier "in" to healing. 

Also you wrote something that sent up a flag "Thank you for raising this man FOR ME"  TRUST ME, her first response to that will be "I didn"t raise him FOR YOU!"  No matter how innocently you meant it, it READS like you feel she's handed him over TO YOU.  And it will invoke the "Mama Bear" inside all of us moms. Because (God forbid) anything ever happened between you and him, she will still be in his life helping pick up the mess.

So - should she act that way?  NOPE. Does she feel justified in it?  Most likely.  Do you want to move beyond it and try to have a strong relationship with her?  Up to you, but I would recommend it.  This could be your chance to be the next-in-line matriach of her family.  One day she'll be gone and she needs to know that there will be SOME woman who will keep her dear family together. Holidays, birthdays, keeping kids in line, making sure people are respectful of the family name and all that that entails.  Moms are proud, defensive and (Deep down) deeply loving. A lot can be learned - about her, her son, her other sons and family members. And maybe she can learn it's okay to let her guard down and be a little kinder. 

She dealt with you eloping without a big fuss. I dare say she really loves you both!   Same as getting married doesn't come with a manual, being a MIL doesn't either. Everyone is learning and IMO everyone should try to foster the relationship and try to wince off the wounds in hope of a better tomorrow.  "Wow! You know when you say that, that really hurts!" Can go a long way to improving the future.

Most people aren't evil inside - they're crying inside. Sometimes that comes out as evil. Sometimes as depression. Sometimes in addictions. Etc etc.  If you can find a way to get through her walls of self defense everyone wins.

Patty

Hello

That sure doesn't sound like an easy situation!!  As a Mom, yes you DO expect your child to grow up etc. But there are lots and lots of moms who still have to feel "Needed" by their children.  Many who can't cut the final strings.  when someone new joins the family, she'S either gained a daughter - or lost a son.  In your case, it sounds like she feels she's losing her son.  Is there anything you can find to show your gratitude to her for raising such an amazing man and husband?  Thank her for bringing into this world, your soulmate and life partner.  Say, politely, "I'm sure there will be things we disagree on over the years, but I think we CAN both agree how amazing Her Son is" (he was her son long b4 ur husband. 

And when she's too hurt to be kind, it's really just the same hurt you would feel if you lost him to another woman.  She's not evil.  She just loves her baby boy, and it's hard to let go. 

Hugs

Not sure what I wrote - but thanks for fixing it.  I certainly don't intend to hurt anyone!

WOW!  Hopefully writing it all out has helped you be able to take a breath!  Especially so close to the wedding!!  My advice to you is handle her "Matter of fact".  She never had a close relationship with her family (from the sounds of what you wrote) and so that entire concept probably feels uncomfortable - and perhaps suspicious.  The more you push / reach out etc, the more she'll pull back.  If she uses email and you're so concerned that others think that your fiance' is mistreating Mommy, I would send your invites via E-mail, to a whole group of people - so that they can see that she IS included.  If you're inviting her to stay with you, cc: his sister on it, so she'll know what's going on as well.  It's hard for a pity-party person to deny this public kindness.  If she continues to lash out DO NOT ENGAGE.  That's really the best advice I have - refuse to get your heart/emotions wrapped up into it, because it is NOT going to turn out well.  "Hey - we were wondering if you'd like to spend the 4th of July holiday"  "Well, you know how {whatever} I am - and this is such a terrible time/idea/etc, you know I don't like it when xyz" you can just say "Oh.. I'm sorry about that - does that mean that you don't want to come visit?  It's the only time that {fiance'} will have a chunk of time off this summer"  Or better yet have him call.  Don't even ADDRESS her whining - just stick with the invite with the single goal of getting a level-headed, matter of fact, answer out of her.  If she says No, that's on her.  My mother is all about the passive-aggressive "poor me!" card.  Any invite would be a 20-30min conversation that I was roped into listening to, and then the eventual answer.  Now it's more like "Do you want to?"  "Uh huh - well Mom, I'm cooking dinner - just wanted to let you know about it.  Do you want me to call back?"  Cutting her off was the only way to get to the point - and actually has vastly improved our relationship - she knows I won't stand for the whining.  At the end of the day she DID want to spend time - but also just wanted someone to whine at.

Also - I don't know what it is, but parents seem incapable of understanding how BUSY people are these days.  They just seem to brush it off.  It's not just a 12 hr shift - it's also getting there and back, showering, time to eat and when you do the math, there's BARELY enough to sleep. 

Tell your fiance' - Thank You for his service!!

Patty   

I completely agree with Pooh!  It's a gift.  If you're giving it with strings attached or as an obligatory item, then really, no one wants it.  We decided long ago that, no matter what the "emotion of the moment" we would spend a certain amount of $$ on our children ($200), their SO's ($100), their children ($50) etc.  Everyone gets the same, it's fair.  So if you're feeling more distant to someone this year, and closer to them next year - it all works out in the wash.  And if you can't give without expecting something back, then in my mind, it's not really giving.

Thanks Confused!  I think it's hard for everyone to bridge that gap from child to adult - and some resist more than others.  Mental health problems are a different set of issues altogether - thankfully we haven't had to deal with that on a lasting basis!

Not sure if I'm allowed to post this link here.  If not, go to Youtube and listen to the song "Daughters" by John Mayer.  I think there's a lot of wisdom in the lyrics;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZLbUIa7exE

Something struck me in your reply " I really hoped that dil and I could at least be friends" - and maybe that's part of the difference.
I never expected to be friends with my children's spouses.  I only hoped that they wouldn't hate us or alienate our children from us.  We are always grateful for the time that they do take to share their lives with us.  'Kids' are SUPER busy these days, and I respect their decisions in who and what to prioritize (and who/what not to).  Would I prefer that someone would've shown up for a family dinner instead of going for a hike?  Sure.  BUT above all, I want them to be HAPPY.  YES, sometimes it hurts - I'm not a robot either. But I also thinks it comes around in the end.

I also look at it from a "daughter" standpoint.  My mother would have me over to dinner every single night if it were up to her.  I see my (divorced) parents every couple months.  They both live the same distance away - but my dad and I are MUCH closer. The respect and understanding that he gives us for having a hectic life, means so much more than her need to reaffirm that she's 'My Mother" and wants to always visit.  My mother always tells me "This isn't how I raised you children" and "When I was growing up, we wanted to be with our parents" etc - those types of things.  I'm sure she has no understanding of just how busy we truly are.  Does she deserve more time?  I suppose.  Will she get it?  Maybe - after she stops 'ordering' or 'expecting' it.  I don't do things from obligation and I don't expect others to either (nor should she want this!).  We're on this earth for such a short time, I only want to be with people that want to be with me - so if someone is too busy for me, that's fine, there are plenty of others that aren't.  And when their hectic life calms down enough to include me, then the time together is sweeter than anything forced could ever be.  Just some food for thought.

You can't force your child-in-law to do anything - the most you can ever do is act in a way that they WANT to.

Thanks Luise!  I am very hopeful - the changes are dramatic (in a good way) and I feel like we're all closer than ever. 

Found out from my ex sister in law, that my ex husband basically told my son more or less what everyone has been saying he needs to understand (and I need to understand) - that allowing her to behave that way is just as much his problem as anything.  Coming from both his parents might have helped him listen a little easier / better - or perhaps caused her to actually hear it.  Whatever the background, we'll happily take it!  We shared a nice Mother's Day together - probably nicer than either of us would have had separately.

Thanks again everyone - appreciate your words of wisdom!

Quote from: marmark1 on March 26, 2014, 12:01:39 PM
Do any body recommend confronting her about what she dislikes about me.

I know it's not the popular answer - But I do recommend having a chat with her.  Pick one or two areas that you'd like to discuss (not your entire relationship!) - things that seem solvable.  Engage her help in creating a stronger relationship with her for the benefit of her husband/your son.  After all - you both love him!  If something dreaded were to happen, you'd be thrown together in the worst of times - it's important to learn to get along.  And no, I don't mean "remake" yourself, but some times, chatting over a cup of coffee about something can REALLY open your eyes as to how the other person perceives you.  Perhaps you say "Oh that's a laugh!" and you mean it's a joke.  But she hears "Oh that's a laugh!" and to her it means you're saying SHE is a joke.  The subtleties of conversation are heart-wrenching.  She didn't grow up with you - she doesn't understand your nuances.  And You have to be willing to take a step back and see where your habits may seem offensive, as will she.  There's a huge chasm in between "You didn't do anything wrong" and "You've done lots of things right" - we need to build bridges across that chasm, one at a time, till a true loving relationship is there and can withstand everyone's various moods and differences.

But start with something EASY to solve. Something you can work together on.  Maybe some plans for your son's bday. Call her up "We'd like to take you guys to dinner to celebrate his birthday, but I don't want to interfere with any plans you might be making or he might already have - can you suggest any dates that would work?  I was thinking xx yy zz".  It will go a LONG way for her to see that you respect that she is FIRST in his life.  You're respecting her, acknowledging that SHE is the Queen in his life now, and including her as a welcome asset. 

I also think it's CRITICAL to re-affirm that it IS their life, and you whole heartedly respect that.  It's not "Your Granddaughter" - it's "Her Daughter" and until she's POSITIVE that you respect that that comes first, there will always be tension. "I'd like to get a new summer outfit for your daughter - but I'm never sure what you like her to wear - can we go pick something out and I'll pay?"

I think people are only spiteful when they're hurt and/or threatened.  As the "older / wiser" woman it's our job to toss a bone, and WORK ON making peace and a loving environment for our grandbabies.  Our children's spouse is not someone that we will ever win against in a battle of "who loves ya more" - so we have to love our children enough to let go, and love their spouse enough to hold on.

We all say and do things that are hurtful.  We seldom mean to.  Working to peace is well worth the journey.

Best of luck!  Don't give up - that "other woman" is someone your child thinks is the BEST person in the world - there's got to be SOMETHING of value in them! :-)  Try to see her(him) through your child's eyes - it might help.

Sorry to hear your having trouble with your dil. I suspect the "silence" is a direct result of him satying something, they fought and he just didn't want to be in the middle. Eventually maybe she realized she's being a little self centered. Or maybe she complained to her mom and between them realized it wasn't quite "right". 

As a DIL I distinctly remember feeling dragged off to celebrate at someone else's place when all I wanted to do was be at home and comfortable - It's "my" holiday too!  Once we had kids it was easier to have reasons to just stay home - but I'm sure there were other hurt feelings. As aas a MIL i make a point to have NO expectations of my children on the actual holidays. I remember clearly how much it could ruin a day, running here to there and no matter what someone's feelings were hurt.  I don't want my kids to have to go through that.

For instance - Mother's Day 2014.  I have 3 sons. I saw my middle and oldest sons on Sat evening.  Middle son's GFs mom died a few yrs ago and this day is so hard for her - I won't intrude on her pain and memories for a Hallmark Holiday.  I know he loves me and is very happy with our relationship etc always - doesn't have to be just one day a yr.  My oldest son worked on Sunday, so he grilled steak and we had a bonfire Sunday night.  My youngest works overnight so we went out to lunch today (his day off).  We all spent precious time together reaffirming our love and devotion - people make WAY too much fuss about an actual date.

So - while I agree, that was VERY rude what happened on Easter, my thought is to celebrate on the "off" day. Ie - celebrate Easter on Saturday (Thanksgiving on Fri, xmas on xmas eve etc). Then your granchildren have multiple days of clelebrating, and everyone gets to see all of their family and no one is hurt. And who knows, maybe one day her family will invite you for dessert!  You spent his whole childhood making compromises for his happiness - why stop?  Do it for your son. And for your own sanity.

Thanks again for the comments/advice. The intent was never to kick them out - a family of 7 isn't going to be able to just land on their feet and it's the children who will suffer the most for that. The intent was to solve the lazy person problem.  He tried for 6mos to find employment after leaving the USMC, anywhere near where his house is, but there simply isn't work to be found. It's a very depressed region (old coal/steel town).  Saying "get out and go where you know you couldn't feed your family" is simply not within my moral character.

But happily the lazy person has seen the light and things ARE a TON better.  I know a lot of people have been surprised that we would take them in.  We've been met with a lot of folks saying "WOW! They're lucky to have you!!"  Which always seems odd to me.  Hubby and I cannot think of a single reason to NOT help our kids, if we can. Sure, it can be stressful - but i also think that being their age and having to ask for help and the embarassment of not being able to provide for your own family, is even more stressful.  When we had our kids, we committed to them for life, not just 20 yrs or so - we feel the only "luck" involved is that we're ABLE to help them. 

Problem solved. Maybe I'm wrong but I simply could never turn my back on one of our children. If you can't count on family when times are hard, who else is there??

Thanks again!

And another option arose that I never even considered ...

I had asked my son's fat6her for advice as well since he's a mgr and used to dealing with "problem people".  He had a frank discussion with my son, who again spoke with the fiance'  evidently her hearing it from a 'removed' source was enough (or perhaps she read this forum).  But in any event I'm pleased to report that things have been better. I don't have to hound her to clean up after themselves and generally care for her family.  Phew!

Thanks for all your encouragement.  We are going to give it some time and then address an 'end date' as I still think that's important for everyone's sake!

Thanks Pooh.

The problem with the ultimatum is that he can't afford them all on just his salary, to stay in NH. If he goes back to PA he would have to quit his job (he couldn't find work for 6 mos there before - no reason to think it's better) and then he's worse off.

He has no issue holding her responsible, and has talked to her lots of times about it, but it's like nailing jell-o to a tree. She says YES YES YES! But doesn't DO anything.  He's a former Marine and so 'not' working is something he/we have no real experience with.

Is there really no way to get her to understand that she has to grow up?  Any daughters in law care to comment what would work if you were in this situation?  What would cause you to lift a finger vs not?

Thank you!
Patty

Help!  My son, husband and I are at our wits end as to what to do about his fiance'.  She is the dirtiest, laziest person we have ever met - and we've met plenty of others!!  My son and her moved from PA back to NH and are living with us while they get on their feet and save for a house.  She has 5 kids, 2 of which are his, so it was a big adjustment to add 7 people and 2 cats to our household of 3 but we were happy to help.

Since they've been here in Jan the situation has only gotten worse.  My son got a job immediately and is working 40-50 hr weeks as are myself, my husband and our other son. She refuses to look for work and when forced has a never ending supply of exscuses why it won't work out. She refuses to do anything around the house to clean and we're used to things being basically picked up, and clean. Clutter is no issue for me - filth I can't handle. There's constantly her hair and eyebrows and I don't know what else all over the bathroom sink/drain, she has swept exactly once in almost 4 months and never vacuumed. One of the boys has sever allergies and pet dander makes it really bad, but that doesn't matter to her.

The kids are 15, 9, 7, 2 and 4mos. She ONLY pays attn to the baby. The other kids are cared for by each other or my sons, husband or self.  The baby is used as a convenient excuse to not do anything else. She has the best breast pump they make but refuses to use it. She sits her wide arse on my couch allll day and is on her iPhone constantly on facebook, pinterest and those types of sites.

I have tried asking her directly, asking my son, making schedules etc and she still does nothing. He asks her to get something done during the day (maybe wash his work clothes) and she always forgets or runs out of time or something. She is sweet as can be when you ask her to do something, smiles, agrees it needs doing and then acts like it was never asked. On the few occassions where she is basically forced to do something, she waits until the baby is miserable, hungry and overtired, then makes him super uncomfortable (cold or over heated or laying on a hard floor), and proceeds to clean or whatever with him howling at the top of his lungs.  Which, of course, upsets the entire household.

My son owns a house in PA and part of moivng up was so that it would be empty and could sell quicker. Now she's wanting to go live in PA for the summer so ppl will leave her alone.

We help out as much as we can - i make the meals 5 of the 7 days, and clean as I go. We are footing the bill for everything. She gets food stamps, but keeps them for top-shelf junk food, ice cream, stuff I won't buy because most of us are overweight in the first place (and I have type 1 diabetes so that's a no no for me).   She will sometimes stack the dinner dishes in the washer and she sometimes does the kids' laundry (though usually the 15yr old is tasked with that) but that's about it.  The kids all have chores and get grounded if they don't do them, my son is always busy helping my husband with projects around the house and getting ready to start college etc.

What to do with someone who passively refuses to do anything???  We end up going out more and more to avoid dealing with her, but then we miss the kiddos. Oh - and the kids are the BEST behaved children ever. They're so neglected that ANY attn is eagerly received.  She isn't overrun with the kids, that's for sure!

She NEEDS to get off the couch! Whether it's go out and get a job and off of assistance (she's refused offers) or fine - stay home - but then clean, shop, plan meals etc and take care of ALL her kids.

At our wits end!