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Problem Solving => Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters => Topic started by: jill on March 23, 2011, 07:41:03 PM

Title: Where do I go from here?
Post by: jill on March 23, 2011, 07:41:03 PM
I have just talked to my odd and she has pretty well let me know she wants nothing more to do with me.  I hardly spoke the last time I saw her, as I was afraid she would twist anything, but apparently I looked at her the wrong way, which I was not aware of.  She said there is no hope we can ever have a relationship.  I was hoping we could at least have a civil relationship but it seems she does even want that now.  She has taken my granddaughter, the light of my life, away from me.  What do I do now?  Should I write a good-bye letter, she does not believe I love her, and I want her to know I do. She hung up on me.  Everything I do is wrong to her.   I am back where I started 8 months ago.   We had no contact for about 4 months last year and it was the worst time of my life.   I really need your wise words now...................Jill       
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Pen on March 23, 2011, 07:56:54 PM
Jill, I'm so sorry to hear this. My heart breaks for you and your granddaughter. By all means write, but do not send a goodby letter. IMHO it won't do a thing to change your ODD's mind but might make it harder for her to come around in a few months time. The good news is that you survived the four months last year...you can survive these next few months as well.

It will be very hard, but try to do something that affirms your life everyday. The moms who have been through this will be weighing in soon. They'll have better advice than I, I'm sure. {{{hugs}}}
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: LaurieS on March 23, 2011, 08:15:51 PM
Hey there Jill.. I can hear the hurt, and I'm so sorry that your daughter has chosen to turn her back once again.  How is your relationship with your other daughter at this time... this is the relationship that I would be spending my time with.  I might give the odd a little space that she is asking for, I hope for her sake as well as yours that she comes around eventually.. but in the meantime I would concentrate my love on those who are capable at this time of loving me back.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: L on March 23, 2011, 08:32:14 PM
I am so very sorry.  Maybe she just said that and didn't mean it and she will calm down.   She must know deep down you love her because if you didn't care you wouldnt' be trying to have a relationship with her.  I think you should do whatever your heart tells you to do as far as writing a letter to her.  You don't have to say "goodbye" in it but you could tell her you want her and your granddaughter in your life and your door is open.

Have you gone to a counselor to help you?  I'm thinking of finding one for myself.  I know exactly how you feel, I'm afraid of what my DD is going to say when I call her next week.  Last email she sent me right after Xmas she said she didn't want to see me either so I'm right in the same boat with you.  We will make it through one day at a time.

I can tell you love your granddaughter with all your heart.  Your daughter may very well have a change of heart down the road.  Sending prayers your way.         
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: luise.volta on March 23, 2011, 08:35:30 PM
Oh, Jill, I'm so sorry. There's nothing you can do. It isn't about you. All you can do is let go of your hopes, dreams and expectations like the rest of us and heal. You can't have what you want and it's a long rough road (I know) to get to where you want what you have....but that's the answer. Sending love...
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: cadagi101 on March 23, 2011, 10:56:32 PM
Quote from: Pen on March 23, 2011, 07:56:54 PM
Jill, I'm so sorry to hear this. My heart breaks for you and your granddaughter. By all means write, but do not send a goodby letter. IMHO it won't do a thing to change your ODD's mind but might make it harder for her to come around in a few months time. The good news is that you survived the four months last year...you can survive these next few months as well.

It will be very hard, but try to do something that affirms your life everyday. The moms who have been through this will be weighing in soon. They'll have better advice than I, I'm sure. {{{hugs}}}

Jill, I feel for you it is very sad, I agree with  all has been said I can't ad much more only this...while I was struggling with similar issues which weighed me down and depressed me terribly for many years I didn't think I was worthy of a treat or pampering time just for me....today for the first time ever the words of WW have said over and over came flooding back to me...I was looking at gorgeous very special gorgeous smelly candles and soaps etc, that I would never ever buy for myself  always for someone else, I felt fabulous as I bought some beautiful items to pamper my senses.     WE give give give so much of  our lives to our children, I remember 20 years ago a counsellor said to me picture a glass that is half full, I've forgotten the rest but she meant I give so much out but am not getting my needs met.    That probably meant absolutely nothing to you ??? but the point is do something for you, be kind to yourself  your odd isn't going to fill the glass for you but others love you and they will.         
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: kathleen on March 24, 2011, 06:26:57 AM
Jill, I am in exactly your position and have been so now for almost three years. 

I can say I am so sorry this is happening to you; it is happening all over the country, a sign of changing times.  I recently watched a documentary on Eleanor Roosevelt; only 100 years ago, women felt so respectful (or fearful, depending on your perspective,) of their mother-in-laws.  Eleanor lived in a side-by-side townhouse with her MIL able to come and go freely between the units, via sliding doors.  It wasn't until her husband became paralyzed with polio that Eleanor began to stand up to her MIL and no longer defer to her in all things.  So this is how much times have changed.  That isn't a help, but it's partly an explanation.  One DIL wrote that today they consider relationships "optional."  OK.  So be it; I have options too, and one is to actively and consciously work against being destroyed by a hateful human being who married into my family.

There is some collective small bits of wisdom I have gathered that help me daily:

---Do something every day that you love.  Lavish time on your garden, your painting, your cooking, or whatever makes you feel like time passes unnoticed.
---Take time out for moments of silence.  Reflect, and promise yourself that this woman will no longer get any more of your time.  Self-blame, trying to figure it out, and trying to bargain with the devil, takes a lot of time away from you and what you love to do and other people you love.
---Take really good care of yourself.  Eat well, and treat yourself often.  For me, it's books.  I treat myself to a new book often.  You can buy them so inexpensively now, used, on Amazon or the Internet, and for me, they provide a welcome distraction when bad thoughts come in the middle of the night.  I just turn on my light, and zoom, I'm in the Klondike helping Belinda Mulrooney build her fantastic Grand Forks and Fairhaven Hotels for her grimy prospectors (like Jack London). Or I'm with my Nancy on the trail of the Secret of the Old Clock.  Or I'm studying a new recipe from Ireland for soda bread to make in the morning.  It really helps. 
---I subscribe to magazines that bring light and beauty into my life, like Victoria.  And I buy similar gifts of books/publications for my husband, to cheer him up.  He may be the only retired man who got a long-wanted children's book for Christmas to read to his kids at the library.  He has found this way to relate to other young children, in lieu of being allowed a relationship with his granddaughter.  So that's another tip, if you can find another way to relate to kids that really want you in their lives in some way.
---Do something bold.  I am now planning to write a book. I wrote to my idol, a dazzlingly talented Canadian author who has won a million awards and who writes the best, most accessible modern history books.  I loved her simple idea so much in the first book of hers I read, I actually asked her if she would give me permission to produce a similar book in the United States.  To my shock, this beautiful woman wrote back---several times----and said she thought it was a wonderful idea to do a similar book here! We had some real exchanges!  Don't ask me how I got the nerve to approach someone this accomplished, but it is opening a new world for me now.  I need a project, and I've now got one.  I'm starting my research next week.  And I feel I have the support of a woman whose self-image is bright and strong enough not to feel threatened by imitation.

What do mothers do?  We control things for our children. What happens when we can't?  We feel helpless and we reach back for that control.  But we can't get it back at this stage, and it doesn't do any good to bargain, I've learned.  Your daughter-in-law is who she is and she's going to do what she pleases. 

I finally blocked my DIL's emails, because they so often contained very hurtful messages or demands for money.  The other day I got a long email from my server notifying me that DIL sent five---five---requests for money in one day.  The server thought it was some kind of emergency, so the server notified me, in case I wanted to respond (usually I don't get a notice, but no doubt the server thought five in one day was an SOS.)  I don't want to respond.  I have no more money to give her.  I'm too busy spending it on history books about the Gold Rush and the amazing women who mushed through the Yukon, or a new/old Nancy Drew.  (Bye, dear, you'll have to go elsewhere now for your free lunch.  You do have more gall than an elephant, I'll say that for you.)

I will be thinking of you, Jill.  And hoping that today---even just for today---you take a large chunk of time and do more than one really nice thing for yourself.  There really is life beyond a rejecting daughter-in-law, even when it involves the unfathomable loss of a much-loved grandchild.  And in some ways, it is very freeing as we learn the art of self-sustaining habits in dark times.  When we are stuck with a DIL like this, happiness must be earned, but it can be earned.  There are some things in the world we will never understand, like serial killers and women who refuse their children a relationship with grandparents.  Keep remembering the No Excuse phrase: there is absolutely no excuse for her behavior, unless you have been a child abuser (and I know you aren't.  If you were, you would not care so much about your granddaughter.)

As far as your letter---do you really love this woman, who treats you so badly and leaves you hanging with no place to go?  Truth is my companion now, because not facing it led me to many wasteful days (and nights.)  I do not love my DIL.  I don't love someone I don't know anymore, and who has been carefree about hurting me and my husband so very badly, and who has separated her husband and daughter from his family.  I don't want to write and tell her that I love her when I don't.  But if you do, and if you feel it's the right thing to do, then go for it, realizing there is probably nothing either way that is likely to change her unless she has an epiphany of some kind. Do what's right for you.

Baskets of flowers,

Kathleen
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: kathleen on March 24, 2011, 06:34:29 AM
Jill, I just re-read your post and realized you are probably not talking about your DIL (I still don't have all the acronyms down and mistook ODD for DIL.)  All my advice is the same; I lost my son, too, in addition to my granddaughter. 

Best, best, best for you,

Kathleen
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: tryingmybest on March 24, 2011, 07:29:02 AM
Kathleen your post contained excellent ideas on women taking care of them selves. They apply no matter who is causing the heartbreak.  ;D
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: jill on March 24, 2011, 08:38:12 AM
Thanks so much for all your replies.  Yes, Kathleen, it is my daughter, which makes it extra hard, mothers and daughters are supposed to be close.  When the one you give birth to just wants to throw you away, it is hard. 
I will pick myself up and dust myself off as I have done so many times, but now I realize a relationship with odd will not work, it does not make me happy, she will continue to twist any innocent remark to suit herself, I have walked on eggshells long enough.  She cannot accept me for who I am.  I have had counselling and she has told me to concentrate on my own life which I am trying to do.  I will write a letter but will not send it until my anger has subsided, maybe for her birthday.  I will send my gd an Easter card and gift certificate and a birthday gift, but I will not contact my odd.   Laurie, my relationship with ydd is not close but we do see each other, usually when I babysit, so I get to see my grandsons.  My gd was my first grandchild, of all the things odd has done, taking her out of my life is the worst and I don't think I can forgive her for that.
But I will pray that I can get through this again.
It means so much to be able to vent like this to people who understand..........Jill
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: holliberri on March 24, 2011, 08:39:52 AM
Quote from: kathleen on March 24, 2011, 06:26:57 AM

I finally blocked my DIL's emails, because they so often contained very hurtful messages or demands for money.  The other day I got a long email from my server notifying me that DIL sent five---five---requests for money in one day.  The server thought it was some kind of emergency, so the server notified me, in case I wanted to respond (usually I don't get a notice, but no doubt the server thought five in one day was an SOS.) 

Kathleen,

I was curious, do servers do this often? I've never heard of it. I would think that someone blocked as junk that suddenly sends 5 e-mails would be listed as a spammer. I've lost several important e-mails upon blocking, so I was wondering if there was a say to set up a notification like that? You have a very very good internet service, it sounds like.

Jill,

I am sorry about your DD. Just stay as busy as you can. If you started talking after 4 months, it is liable you will talk again. I'll be thinking of you.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 24, 2011, 09:17:13 AM
Jill

Do you think it gives your DD pleasure in watching you suffer from another scathing remark ?
She knows she has the trump card in your GD , and knows that whatever she says or does to you , you will always come back when she calls .
You need to call her bluff ! don't play her games any more , play your own trump card and don't contact her in any way .
By all means , of course , keep sending things to your GD .
Time to live your own life , some kids don't think we have one .
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: L on March 24, 2011, 09:53:26 AM
I can relate when you said "daughters and mothers should be close"  I think that's why I have such a hard time accepting my DD and my messed up relatonship because my mother and I never fought and we were so very close like best friends and now she's passed away two years ago.  So, it really hurts as I miss my mom so much too.  At least you have another daughter who is o.k and you get to spend time with grandsons.  Don't know if I will ever be a grandma, I hope so!

Do you work?  You may be retired I don't know situation.  Reason I ask is yesterday I decided I'm going to try and find a part time job for myself in the fall after summer (want to be free for my DS this summer) but it made me feel better deciding that because all this free time at home gives me to much time to think about daughter and other problems!  I think I will be happier if made to be busier at a job.  So, maybe you could do something or volunteer with kids reading in school like another lady suggested.  You never know, maybe then your ODD might even be like "wow, mom isn't sitting around worrying about me in fact, she is working with other kids."  Maybe she will get off her "high horse".  I know my daughter is on a high horse too and I think she likes it when I'm upset.  Hate to say that, but some of our kids are just plain mean it seems!  It's awful isn't it?!!!!  Hang in there!   
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: LaurieS on March 24, 2011, 10:23:20 AM
Quote from: holliberri on March 24, 2011, 08:39:52 AM

I was curious, do servers do this often? I've never heard of it. I would think that someone blocked as junk that suddenly sends 5 e-mails would be listed as a spammer. I've lost several important e-mails upon blocking, so I was wondering if there was a say to set up a notification like that? You have a very very good internet service, it sounds like.
I'd be concerned if my some bozo at my isp was reading my messages and then commenting on them to boot.  Now that would be a scary thought... Maybe Kathleen did not mean her Internet Service Provider when she said server.. you know all this techie talk sometimes terms are misused.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: luise.volta on March 24, 2011, 01:41:23 PM
Well, I never misuse techi-terms! No, not none of me! Lets see...ISP: People say that around me a lot. It means "Isn't she pretty?"
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: AnonymousDIL on March 24, 2011, 01:51:27 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on March 24, 2011, 01:41:23 PM
Well, I never misuse techi-terms! No, not none of me! Lets see...ISP: People say that around me a lot. It means "Isn't she pretty?"

LOL You are TOO Much!
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: LaurieS on March 24, 2011, 01:54:50 PM
Yes Luise.. that is exactly what ISP stands for (the things we do to humor some people :) )

Haven't seen you on lately Luise... everything ok?
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: luise.volta on March 24, 2011, 02:01:56 PM
Laurie: My new Mac has me locked in her jaws! I try to write on MS Word and no matter how many times I try to kill it bold highlights itself and then the huge black print hurts my eyes...stuff like that. (And Techi-Kirk and Sandy are vacationing in Utah!)
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: LaurieS on March 24, 2011, 02:06:49 PM
if you didn't go with one of those artsy machines I could help you :) buttttttt.... I'm sure someone here uses a Mac besides you
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: luise.volta on March 24, 2011, 02:43:27 PM
;D ;D It happens when I copy and  paste a question from my eamil to Word to work on it before publishing on MomResponds.com. I have this monster so Kirk can get inside it from Kauai and fix anything that needs fixing...so we shall see. I've darkened my screen down as far as it will go to lessen the contrast but it's still awful. Oh, well... ;D ;D
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Pen on March 24, 2011, 06:01:12 PM
Kathleen, I love your suggestions for getting our lives back. Even when we know better we can lose ourselves in childrearing, forgetting we were independent people with interests, experiences, needs and desires of our own.

Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: myree on March 24, 2011, 08:27:36 PM
jill
((((((())))))))) hugs , please remember you are more than just a role your a person too i have a grand daughter too and wonder how long it will be before i get cut out of her life by the spite ful  nasty person i used call my wonderful daughter,luckily i have an option in australia grand parents get visitation rights . if you have other grown up kids focus on them family husband ect maybe a big sister type of program where you can mentor a young woman ect . i wish i could take away your hurt  :'(
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Nana on March 25, 2011, 12:41:30 AM
Jill...I do feel your pain.  The worst thing that ever happened to me was when I had a bad relationship with dil and this jeopardized seeing my gs.  I had to make some changes because it was tearing me apart, and turning me into a rag (which by the way I was starting to believe I was a rag).   The price of recovering one's life is so high.  Sometimes it involves losing a son/daughter or grandchildren.   But as Kathleen said" So it be" .  We should never lose ourselves and only to get a crumb if you get lucky.   Enough is Enough...when we feel helpless, hopeless and with no self-worth.    Enough is Enough when it is more than we can take and we feel miserable.  We deserve to be happy and fulfill....we are not dead.  I hope that you can follow Kathleen advice which by the way is great.  As Luise and some other wise ladies here say....we cannot change others but sure can change ourselves.   I wish you the best of luck....love, peace and strength. 

Kathleen:  I have not seen you post for a long time.  I always loved your posts.  They make a lot of sense to me.   You can put into words what many of us think but cannot put it in a clear logical form.  I am so happy about your book.  You are a very good writer and intelligent.    What you mentioned about not loving dil because she has not earned that love is true.  I used to think..."why does dil doesnt love me<  I love her."  But now I am thinking... probably I did not love her then but love the idea of having a loving relationship with her.   Now I do love her because now she is nice to me. 

Thanks for your post Kathleen.

Love
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Pooh on March 25, 2011, 09:37:42 AM
Jill, I am so sorry about her doing this again to you.  I have nothing to add to everyone else's advice, but wanted you to know I really hate it for you.  Hang in there...you are so worth it!
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: jill on March 25, 2011, 11:02:10 AM
Thanks again everyone for your replies.  LL - I do think she wants to hate me, and makes things up.  After this incident supposedly happens, she called me that evening about something else, and was pleasant, never mentioned this incident.  So I can only assume she had nothing to complain about so made something up.  Now I would not only have to walk on eggshells, I would have to keep a poker face. 
L - I am retired and I love it, I keep very busy with different activities, so I have lots to fill my time, but it does not fill the hole in my heart.
Pooh - I love your quote about being yourself.............................Jill 
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Barbie on March 25, 2011, 11:41:54 AM
Jill,

I don't have that much more to add, just want to tell you that I'm sorry this is happenning to you. Time will ease your pain, although you will always love her and miss her.

Kathleen,

Great post! I'm already trying to do that and succeding to some extent, you encourage me to go on and not look back.

                                           (((Hugs)))
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 25, 2011, 11:56:18 AM
Jill:

Don' t you just hate that ? Guarded conversations .....
I don't understand how one minute she wants nothing more to do with you , and the next she is having pleasant conversations
with you .
She obviously doesn't mean what she is saying in the heat of the moment , I would take her rants with a pinch of salt .
When she's sees you're not rattled , she'll maybe stop her cruel statements .
Hard to understand these kids , they don't realise the harm they do when they kick off .
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Tara on March 25, 2011, 10:53:00 PM
Jill,

I can relate to the pain of an up and down relationship with your dd.  It can be so anguishing.

I wondered about one thing you said early on that she didn't feel you loved her.  Did I read that right?
did she say why she thought that?


Kathleen,  I love hearing about the ways you self care and also about your book!

warm wishes to you both
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Hope on March 26, 2011, 04:47:18 AM
Jill,
I hope you find a way to deal with your sadness and come out feeling confident and happy.  I know it's not right what's happening to you - not fair - and confusing.  I liked what others wrote about trying to concentrate on your life goals, activities, and successful relationships.  It's so sad to lose a child and grandchildren.  I feel like I lost my ds......and I don't feel like a real gm to my only gc (ds's son).  I understand how it effects your attitude about life.  It can take you over.  We need to try to set that relationship on the back burner if we can so we can be around healthy relationships and activities.  I know how hard that is - but let's give it our best efforts.  I'm still trying to work on it myself.  It's the worst after I see my ds/dil/gc at a large gathering.  It makes it all so real. I feel so much better when I just don't see them at all.  It would be different if they spoke to me when they saw me (other than hi and bye).  It would be different if my ds would ask me about my life or call me occasionally to see how I'm doing.   Or if I saw them alone - rather than at large gatherings.  I know my ds probably doesn't realize how hurtful this is to me - or care.  That's why I have to just try to move on.
Kathleen - I have always loved reading your posts and believe that you have the makings of a successful author.  Please let us know when you are ready to release your first book so we can buy it.
Love and hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Barbie on March 27, 2011, 10:41:52 AM
Dear Hope,

I want to share something with you. My DS who used to call me everyday has been calling me a couple of times a week now, and we get to see him and GD every couple of months when they come, while I agree it's much better this way than in a large gathering where DIL's family is present, it's still not the ideal situation as I feel that he's watching every single move I make with GD, he doesn't trust me? how quickly he forgot the person that I am all that I did for him, our relationship is so diferent to the one we used to have, when they leave we're left wondering if we'll ever see them again so instead of being happy, we're left with such emptiness that it's hard to enjoy the moment. We keep hoping and dreaming that things will change but they don't.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Pen on March 27, 2011, 11:17:31 AM
I'm glad to hear you have visits and phone contact. Your DS watching every move you make is something else! Why do you think he's doing this? Is he watching for something DIL has already accused you of, or is he soaking up good childrearing skills?

If it's the latter you can feel affirmed as a parent. If it's the former you're in the same position as a politician who's being "spun" by the opposing party. My DIL and her FOO have spun DH & I, and DS's childhood, to suit their original agenda of cutting us off. Thank goodness things have gotten better, at least on the surface.

I hope your DS soon sees he has nothing to fear and passes that on to DIL. Best wishes, and enjoy the visits and calls!
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: luise.volta on March 27, 2011, 01:50:00 PM
Things don't change, that's true...but people do. Adult children can grow into strangers and we have little or nothing to say about it. Sending love...
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Hope on March 27, 2011, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: Barbie on March 27, 2011, 10:41:52 AM
Dear Hope,

I want to share something with you. My DS who used to call me everyday has been calling me a couple of times a week now, and we get to see him and GD every couple of months when they come, while I agree it's much better this way than in a large gathering where DIL's family is present, it's still not the ideal situation as I feel that he's watching every single move I make with GD, he doesn't trust me? how quickly he forgot the person that I am all that I did for him, our relationship is so diferent to the one we used to have, when they leave we're left wondering if we'll ever see them again so instead of being happy, we're left with such emptiness that it's hard to enjoy the moment. We keep hoping and dreaming that things will change but they don't.
Barbie,
I feel like we have very, very similar situations.  I only see my gc once in a couple months - around a bunch of other people.  I don't EVER get a call from my son to just chat or to see how I am.  I'm happy for you that your son cares enough to call you regularly.  I totally get the feeling of emptiness - and finding it hard to enjoy the moment. Thanks for sharing.
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Hope on March 27, 2011, 03:12:28 PM
Quote from: Pen on March 27, 2011, 11:17:31 AM
I'm glad to hear you have visits and phone contact. Your DS watching every move you make is something else! Why do you think he's doing this? Is he watching for something DIL has already accused you of, or is he soaking up good childrearing skills?

If it's the latter you can feel affirmed as a parent. If it's the former you're in the same position as a politician who's being "spun" by the opposing party. My DIL and her FOO have spun DH & I, and DS's childhood, to suit their original agenda of cutting us off. Thank goodness things have gotten better, at least on the surface.

I hope your DS soon sees he has nothing to fear and passes that on to DIL. Best wishes, and enjoy the visits and calls!
My ds does the same thing!  He watches dh and me when we hold gs at gatherings as if we will do something wrong.  And when I didn't hold his bottle high enough for a few seconds (which btw was the kind in a bag that air cannot enter) he corrected me and took him away from me when I interruped his bottle feeding which was going on for at least a half hour between dh and me.  Also yelled at me for talking too loud on Christmas eve while gs was napping in a nearby bedroom.  He's another person than I use to know.
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 27, 2011, 03:31:22 PM
I too was shown how to feed a baby a bottle !
This was after she was 9 months old .....that was the first time I was allowed to feed my GD.!
It's funny this topic has come up as my DD and I were discussing today how much my DS has changed .
Do you think it's because he knows how his partner likes things done and is afraid of the consequences ?
Or he has been brainwashed so much he forgets who actually raised him and his siblings !
Maybe we are now too old , and not capable any more .
whatever their reasoning it's very demeaning and as usual we say nothing as we don't want to make waves !!
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Pen on March 27, 2011, 03:40:17 PM
Hope, I was just chastized for whispering around a sleeping baby by a new mom who wanted everyone to keep the noise level normal so the baby would be used to noise and not need complete silence to fall asleep. You never know which parenting philosophies are being used until you mess up, right?  ;)

LL, yes it's very demeaning. I think sometimes the intent is to make us feel old and in the way rather than loved and valued for raising our own children. I wonder how they think we managed to survive all these years w/o their input?
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Hope on March 27, 2011, 04:26:57 PM
Being treated in this demeaning way changes my behavior.  I feel unconfident and withdrawn.  I need to be able to ignore those feelings and be happy for all the great things in my life.  Haven't figured out how to do that yet, but I'll figure it out.
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: luise.volta on March 27, 2011, 05:22:46 PM
I do that because there is still a part of me somewhere deep down that thinks it's true. When people say things about me that I don't relate to, they roll right off me like water off a duck's back. When it happens like you describe, I try to get in touch with that little person within that still isn't aware of how wonderful she is and give her the validation and acknowledgment she didn't experience. Sending love...
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Hope on March 27, 2011, 06:24:45 PM
Thanks, good friend.  I need to do some of that reassuring self talk to build myself back up.  I am a good mother, I am a good mother, I am a good mother.......AND.....it's their problem, not mine; it's their problem, not mine; it's their problem not mine........
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Nana on March 27, 2011, 07:16:11 PM
Good Hope...validating ourselves is important to our self-image.  We may be getting old but we sure need to be rewarded by it, not demean or judged.  All you ladies, Hope, LL, Barbie, Pen are great ladies and good moms....hurting from their children's insecurities.  My dil used to watched me all the time when I was permitted to hold their first son, her eyes were all over me.  It was so disgusting and humuliating.  As you all said, could not enjoy the moment.  It was like being the gm....but not being a real grandmom.  I even became very nervous when holding him because I felt intimidated.  So ladies....lets show our children that we do know how much worth we have, even if they dont think so.   Just hold on to the blessings you do have.

Love you all. 
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: holliberri on March 27, 2011, 07:19:36 PM
Are they really being demeaning or judging? I tend to believe they're just being parents.

I'm going to defend us kids here for the moment: we are all only trying to be the very best parents for our children, as all of you were to yours. There are many, many different ways of doing that, but each of us has our own way that feels right and intuitive to us. I think when we do correct something, it's not to be mean, or to be putdown or chastisement towards you, it is only done b/c we think we are acting in the best interest of our children. We may or may not be...time will tell, but we go on the best information we have for now. And, everyone really does do it differently; it's not the best way, just a different way.

My brother still doesn't like how I held the bottle for his DDs, but he made sure to do it my way for my DD when she was born. I have a girlfriend who feeds her children meat, but she knows I don't feel DD meat yet, so she respects that. When she comes by, I have some turkey cranberry puree for her DS. There's a million ways to parent, since there are millions of children and millions of parents out there, and all of them are different. I believe that when a suggestion is made, it's not because you're doing something wrong, but doing something according to mom and dad's instructions does keep the continuity for the child and if mom and dad have a handle on it, so what?

I don't think it's insecurity; my insecurity comes into play b/c I have zero confidence to tell MIL that what she is doing is stressing my DD out.  Insecurity makes me clam up, it doesn't make me bark orders.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: luise.volta on March 27, 2011, 07:26:22 PM
No defense needed here. How you feel matters and it doesn't require agreement. Eveeryone matters here, "kids" and all. This is a very wealthy site because we all put inour 2 cents!   ;D   Sending love...
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Barbie on March 27, 2011, 07:32:12 PM
Yes Hope, think of 10 things that make you a good mother and write them down on paper and put it somewhere where you can read it often.

I'm usually a very confident person and I worked so hard to have the "perferct" family but with the way DS has treated us I feel so ashamed that I can't look at DIL's FOO in the eyes, I figure they have to know the way DS has humiliated me and disrespected our family, it's embarrasing. They're the ones with all the problems but I feel that now thanks to DS we're at their level. 

Pen, I'm not sure what the problem is and I stopped trying to figure it out, I just try to be myself around GD. I'm clean, don't smoke, don't drink, don't feed her junk food, I'm religious, the only thing I can think of that DIL may not like but I could be wrong is that I like to see GD looking pretty and ocassionally I buy her clothes to put on while she's here since they dress her in rags, we like to spoil her but to me that's what GP's do.

Holli, I see your point and really, if they don't like something they should come out and tell us in a nice way, I don't think any of us would feel hurt by that, it's the way they do it, the disrespect that hurts so much and specially when they put us down in front of DIL, it's devastating.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: holliberri on March 27, 2011, 07:37:04 PM
Oh, Barbie, I can see that.

Delivery is everything isn't it?

My mom came back from a visit last year with my brother and she fed my niece a piece of cheese that she choked on. My SisIL AND my mom stuck their fingers in her throat to fish it out. Baby was fine, and the story was repeated to my brother.

My brother stood up pointed at his DW and his DM and said, "You and you...STOP talking. You NEVER put your finger in a baby's mouth...don't you know anything???"

This just as his MIL was walking in. My mom was mortified, and felt like the "lesser" grandma b/c of the audience. I tried to tell her not to sweat it, b/c he also gave his DW a tongue lashing, but feelings are feelings.

A few weeks ago, I did ask her if I cut up the grapes small enough for DD (small round things frighten me) and she said, "Uh-uh...don't ask me. I have no idea, I messed up once before, remember?" She's not over it.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 28, 2011, 01:00:11 AM
Holli........I agree with you that what babies mom says goes .......I would never offer GD anything to eat without running it by her first . She is the number one carer 24/7 , and of course I as a Gm respect that .Its the little things that gnaw away .Now I am allowed to.change nappies ......I am monitered whilst doing so ....but as I sing when doing this , I tend.not to hear any comments ....why do I sing ? It stops my GD wriggling away ....lol.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: tryingmybest on March 28, 2011, 05:24:14 AM
Some times I think it's teenager hood part II, remember when they turned 13 and suddenly we were all idiots.? I think it made it easier to break away from the security of "mom and dad". No GC yet, but am getting the patronizing attitude. May be that continues until they truly feel secure as adults?
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 28, 2011, 10:27:46 AM
Next stage is complete roll reversal ....
We are the kids , they are the parents , not looking forward to that one .
Half way there at the moment with not being well , DD delights in telling me what I should be doing .
Retiring to the sun , she says , with pleasure says I , who's funding this retirement ?...Silence ...! lol
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 28, 2011, 10:29:42 AM
PS:
Thankyou for keeping me on till I reached my senior member status ..... ;D
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Barbie on March 28, 2011, 10:50:24 AM
LOL
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: luise.volta on March 28, 2011, 12:00:42 PM
Let me tell you about being the kid instead of the parent. How much time  do you have?  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: kathleen on March 28, 2011, 03:57:44 PM
I've received an email stating I attempted to deceive the members of this forum on this thread. 

The writer held that this is an opinion of more than one member of this forum; the other(s) who supposedly feel this way were not identified.

The email states, quote, "It's a sad state when she (meaning me) thinks her audience here is not smart enough to know that an ISP will not contact you about blocked messages."

Further, however, the writer feels, quote, "These women (on this forum) are happy enough that they can log and surf the net, they are not looking nor really understanding what is said outside of the basics."  I could be wrong, but I read that again to mean I was attempting to convey untruths and that the writer is far more intelligent and perceptive than most of the women on this forum, including me.

I do not know the precise tech term for my private email service that notified me that my DIL sent five messages in one day requesting money.  I also do not know why I should have to explain this here, as if I am a liar.  I never used the acronym "ISP" in my post; I used a generic term, "provider."  My private email service, reserved for family, friends, and for my writing submissions, is not web-based. In order to maintain this service/provider/server, whatever name is correct that must be stated here, I had to complete an application including several phrases and a password so that no one unintended can access it.  However, the service/provider/server itself has access to that information and can access my email at any time.  I feel certain the assessment I wrote on this thread, that the provider was concerned that five emails came in quick succession and might be an emergency and decided to notify me, was correct. I did call the service and was told that anyone I've blocked receives that notification, so my DIL obviously knows this and continues her requests anyway.

I was raised and continue to be a professional in the newspaper business; however, I never write about technology.  Acronyms are rarely used in the newspaper business and, while it's possible that ISP is widely known today, I do not use it.  I am very stupid when it comes to technology; my son, who runs a computer business and manages me, is happy when I can turn the computer on.  While I may well have used an inappropriate term, it was not an attempt to deceive anyone. 

I also do not feel I have an "audience" on this forum.  I have made all of my posts in the hope of helping others, as I have received so very much unimaginable help from Luise and many who have written to me in warmth and real loving kindness.  I feel that except for the writer of this particular email, I've gained much more than I've given in terms of understanding my situation and learning to move on. I hoped to find friendship, not the kind of sniping unkindness, the searching out of motives not there to provide the most negative possible interpretation, as I have received from my daughter-in-law.

I am posting this because I do not know who else is making these assessments so I cannot post this privately.

Kathleen

Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: FAFE on March 28, 2011, 04:38:51 PM
Kathleen, what a twit to have written something like that to you.  I love your posts and seems that you are a wealth of information.  Hopefully, you will stay here and share your knowledge with some of us who are not so smart and are still open to hear other opinions. 
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: kathleen on March 28, 2011, 05:06:31 PM
Thank you, FAFE, for your most welcome comments.  I very much appreciate it, and I fully suspect you are much smarter than I am,

Kathleen
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: cadagi101 on March 28, 2011, 05:13:21 PM


What a load of hogwash,  I would not give that nonsense email you recieved another thought.     
some people have very little to do with their time and to justify their comments with "other's  feel the same"  "they and the "supposed others" must be very insecure.     Your posts are amazing and a delight to read.   
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Barbie on March 28, 2011, 05:26:47 PM
Kathleen, I love reading your posts, you have so much wisdom to offer, I sure hope you'll stay.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: irenic on March 28, 2011, 06:32:07 PM
Oh Jill where do we all go?  I got two books this week that I am reading, hoping this somehow helps me.  It is just unimaginable to
agony we go through?  Our dreams shattered by a relationship we thought would be ideal, a mother and daughter
how perfect could that be?  Well it seems not so much!  I am so sorry, truly I know your agony.  I pray for you, I will pray and
hope you will be given some peace of mind.  In love and caring as another mother who has been there and knows your pain.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: luise.volta on March 28, 2011, 07:03:48 PM
OK. I am stepping in here.

Once again, I want to remind you that if you don't like a thread, a post or a poster...move on to another one.

I have tried to have the PM option removed and failed. Kirk says it is too deep in the forum software. The only use for it that I see is if and when members want to exchange email addresses and enter into expanded friendships. I can see that happening. PMs      aren't needed for people to contact me. That can be done via "Report to Moderator."

My take is that Kathleen was trying to find out of it was true that others beyond the one who sent her the PM felt the same way, as stated...or if even the majority did. She couldn't do that by PM, she doesn't know who they are...or even "if" they are. My guess is that she would not continue if that were true. Personally, I think that would be a loss to the quality of this site.

I have spoken about (but not worked very hard at) wriing a book. Does anyone want to take me on about that? If so, go for it...on your way out.

I have terminated members who have misused the PM feature. We had one who useds PMs to turn members against each other and start wars that way. It may be a form of entertainment for some...but not on my dime.

I have also terminated members who used it to attack another member when I became aware of it. WWU is about support, advocasy, being heard and acknowledged and often...it is about healing.

Is there anyone who doesn't understand this post?

And yes, sending love...always...
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: luise.volta on March 28, 2011, 08:00:03 PM
I am placing this response on two threads. (Sorry for the double post.)

There has been some question as to whether it was OK for Kathleen to post that she has been told via Personal Message that not one member but perhaps many, dislike her presentation(s).

My take is that she brought it up online because she does not know how to address those others who seem to back her accuser, if they exist. She can't PM them. She doesn't know who they are.

I have tried to have the PM option removed from WWU. Kirk says it can't be done. It is too deep in the software. I see no use for it unless members want to exchange email addresses to create expanded relationships and they could do that through me, if they were both in agreement. PMs aren't needed to contact me. That can be done via "Report to Moderator."

Once again, I want to say that if you don't like a thread, doubt its authenticity, don't like a post or a poster...please move on to other subjects. There are plenty to choose from.

I have terminated members who used PMs for subterfuge, overt attack and/or back stabbing. Also, some members have apparently found it to be entertaining to turn members against each other via PM and start wars. Not on my dime.

My "dime" is about support, advocacy, being heard and acknowledged and at times it is about healing. If it's a Pollyanna site to some, so be it.

Does anyone think I may be using WWU content for the book that I one day think I might write? If so, please blast me about that on your way out.

Come on you guys...lighten up!

Sending love, always...
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 29, 2011, 01:35:12 AM
Kathleeen :
I cannot believe someone would think you have fabricated a story of pain and anguish for what reason ?
I believe this forum was set up to help people who are in so much pain , they don't know which way to turn .
If this person ,(s) feel so strongly about your post , they should put their feelings in print for others to see.
Let the WW respond .do not back this person into an already scary corner !  Shame on you !
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: Nana on March 29, 2011, 02:15:33 AM
Kathleen

We should never speak for others.  If I need to tell you something I thought, I wouldnt need to say that others feel the same way about you.

You know....I am your fan and love your posts.   

Lovei
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: RedRose on March 29, 2011, 04:24:28 AM
I read this site everyday....

Kathleen's posts are ones that I look forward to...I feel she has a lot to contribute.
She has a story a lot of us can relate to.

Noone is better than the next person that may post.

I have often wondered what has happened to Creme..I miss her posts and wealth of knowledge.

If I could write a book I would too.
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: AnonymousDIL on March 29, 2011, 05:37:08 AM
 ??? Ut oh, Ladies! What's going on here? We shouldn't be attacking each other. :-( We don't want to become like that other site. :-(
Title: Re: Where do I go from here?
Post by: luise.volta on March 29, 2011, 10:53:03 AM
OK, lets move on. Some of us have issues with PMs. Some of us don't want them referred to here. Some of us wonder what is going on with some of us. Recess time! Senidng love.'''