WiseWomenUnite.com

Send him to your daughters house "for a month", sounds like he might be on better behavior there.

Hi All, I don't know if it is ok to put links here but I found a couple that might be useful to everyone. The first is an article on shunning in Psychology Today. It is mostly for shunning that occurs in the workplace, however the advice can be applied to any situation. Much of what is said is reflected here at WWU which I think shows that the advice given by Luise and the other managers is right in line with what a psychologist/therapist would tell you.

The other thing I came across is a book on Amazon. I have not read all of it because I am waiting on a kindle. But I read the preview pages and it looks like a pretty good book for estranged parents.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beyond-bullying/201309/the-silence-shunning-conversation-kipling-william

http://www.amazon.com/Abandoned-Parents-Consequences-Children-Abandoning/dp/150097370X#reader_150097370X

Luise I like that one, I can just hear what would be said if I sent that text to my AD....sooo tempting! HA

Also wanted to let everyone know that the problem of estrangement, from what I have been reading, is now a epidemic problem. The 30-40 something's have a chip on their shoulder and a sense of entitlement it seems. Maybe it was the ideas of the hippie generation.

Thank you Wise women. It is funny, Pooh, that you mentioned the "I am sorry you feel that way" approach because I have read that too but dismissed it as well because it seems a bit fake to me. I thought of that just after posting and figured that maybe that is what would be recommended. Glad that it wasn't. SL, My AD is 41 and should be long past any childish resentments, and in my opinion should be saying "now I understand why she did this or that". I have moved on for the most part but it still haunts me now and then for the "why?". Is it the ex, the ex-in laws, her husband, her in-laws, or just me? I have mentioned my Mother before and how I came to realize her "mistakes" by about age 20-21. My sister however never really did and they had not much of a relationship, if any. She (my sister) has no idea how much love she missed out on. Her loss for sure.
Thank you Luise for the words of wisdom. You are so right, you can't have a relationship without respect.
So glad I wrote in because I kept trying to talk myself into considering trying to apologize in some way, but like I said I just can't do it. At least now I know that I am not totally off the mark with my thinking.

Hello All,
I am stopping in again to get your opinions, I am curious to what others are doing or have done with estranged Ad/As. As always I surf the net for answers even though I know there is no answer for most of our situations. The common element I see in the various blogs, sites, or books is that they recommend that you apologize to your children for your wrongdoing and accept their perspective. Well I just can't do that. I can't admit I was wrong and apologize for things that I did not do. I won't apologize for doing my best even if they did not like it. I won't apologize for abuse that never happened. IMO if I say I am sorry for any of it then I am saying that I did do wrong, and I did not. They was no abuse, no drugs, no alcohol. There is no excuse for my AD behavior except that she became very religious, and I have never been. I have stopped trying to connect with her and at this point I truly have given up and don't care to make any effort. But I still read about how others are doing and would like to know if people really think that feeding into their delusions is the way to go, not that I will do it, just curious.

Thank you Louise & Pooh- Guess it is a fear that saying NO to anything will cause more distance then there already is. Coming here is so helpful and has really saved me from losing it over the past many years. Being without AC's around is actually much easier then walking on eggshells as many here have said in one way or another.

Hello Ladies, well here we go again into holidays. Ever since my divorce 10 years ago I have never had a holiday visit in my home with my Ac's, as I mentioned before, my ex gets first dibs, then in-laws. I was invited to my AS's a couple of times and I went. I have never been invited to AD's. AD and I are done as far as I am concerned because I could no longer take the way she treats me.
My dilemma is this, should I make the 10 hour drive for Thanksgiving. It is a dilemma because I feel that this is one sided in that I do not get visited even when he or AD are driving through town on their way to visit someone else. Also this will be an expense and I am on a fixed income.
I can't express how tired I am of my ACs. It is a sense of hopelessness in that I can't do for them what my ex can do with four times my income, or what the in-laws can do who also have money. I really think that if I was doing more, spending more, that I would get more attention, but isn't that pretty sick?
I am so tired of it all I just don't care to put myself out. Quiet holidays at home seem a little more desirable at this point. But I am afraid if I don't go it will somehow be used against me in the future- probably no more invites. What do you think??

Dear P. Your situation is somewhat like mine. My AC's were extremely mad at me when I separated from their father and I did not want to involve them or bad mouth their father. However my now ex did not give them the same consideration and he did bad mouth me, not taking any of the responsibility himself (for his infidelities). I did not want to pain my AC's with the truths. The problem is that in not telling them anything I took all the blame, but I was told by psychologists that I was doing the right thing, and I also felt it was the right thing (to keep them out of the divorce details). My ACs did not speak to me for five years, and we still do not have a "normal" relationship. I think if I could do it over I would fight back and play dirty as my ex did. It is amazing what ex's will say and do in order to win the kids over to their side. So, some advise from my experience, write a letter to your boys and don't hold back. Give them all the dirty details of how the relationship went wrong and defend yourself. Seems there is nothing more to lose by doing that. I am sorry you are going through this, but at least you have found some happiness with your new partner. Best wishes to you!

Hi DM- I know what you are talking about with the "thanks for calling" thing. It's WEIRD, like you are talking to a store clerk or something along those lines. I don't understand these AC's. They have something in their mind. Something that bothers them enough to act like that. But I think many of them (from Moms here) are a bit delusional, and if that is the case there is not much to do about until they come to the realization they have not been fair to us, which may be on our death bed. I hope that is not the case with either of us but it might be. 

Thank you Sarah. Yes it seems like FB is only second to putting your life on the 6 o'clock news. Don't understand why people feel it is a good thing. I have not gone back and plan to stay off it, hope curiosity does not get the best of me!

Hi Lost mom- sorry your children are being so disrespectful. I read Lilly's response and I think she hit the nail on the head. Until your children mature (if they ever do) they will never have empathy for the hardships you faced while they were growing up. I think that those who have not gone through many (or any) similar hardships themselves just cannot understand what women (sometimes men too) go through in life just trying to survive.
When I was twenty I suddenly saw my mother in a different light. Yes she was difficult to grow up with, and critical, (as OptOut said her mother was), but at twenty I saw the reasons why she was how she was and I had an understanding of her as a person. She made some mistakes, but I am here and I am a good person. Like Lilly said, you can't blame your parents for everything, or even anything when you are an adult.
Your AC's have not reached that maturity, and may not. Something has to happen to them to make that light go on, I don't know what it is. My DS did, but not my DD.
Just trying to say that it is them not you. You did the best you could with the circumstances and that is all that is possible. I hope one day your AC's come to that realization.

Thank you so much for all of your comments, this site always makes me feel better about this bad situation with my AC's. As for FB, I hardly use it because I just have not figured it out, how to block etc. Guess I am too more for the old ways, telephone calls and letters, and VISITS. But my AC's say that FB and scype(??) is they way people communicate now-seems a bit quick and easy, and IMPERSONAL. I liked going to visit my Grandmother, sitting and having tea and hearing her stories. Those are memories. I don't think people make memories anymore.
My BF says I should get on FB and post pictures of our activities and let them all know how fine I am doing. I am thinking more along the lines of putting on some ridiculously sexy outfit and give them something to talk about! HA! " Is that your Mother?, no wonder you don't talk to her"!! I don't think I could really do that, but it is fun to think about it.

Hi all, have not posted here for awhile, but check in every now and then when things get tough.

I went on FB yesterday to show pictures of GC only to find pictures of DD, her family, my XH and his family all having a wonderful fathers day in a restaurant. It really upset me way more then it should have, but I guess it did because I got no mothers day visit (never do) and no birthday acknowledgement (never do). That itself did not bother me as much until I saw the photos, then it really stung like a bee.

Said to myself before I would stay away from FB as this is not the first time and I feel like I am spying since it has nothing to do with me.

On a good note I am out of state looking for a place to move to. At this moment I do not plan to tell DD my new address/phone I am so upset, though I will probably change my mind when I become hopeful again. Thanks for letting me vent here ladies!
\

Dear Sad,

I feel very sorry for your son, employment IS difficult to obtain these days, I know because I have been trying to get a job for two years. Has your son thought about a military career. It is a good place to start, and even if he only does a few years he will have many more options afterward because of preferences given to veterans.
Kate